Okay so first Barbra dates Tim Drake in arkham knight who's like her (ex) boyfriend's brother then she makes out with batman ? What's next ? Barbra marries Alfred ?
I get it now! The point of this movie was Joker teaching us that it takes one bad day (movie) for a person to go insane. The day we see this, is the day we go insane. It IS like the ride Gordan was on!
lol they have him on speed dial. Kevin has played the longer then any actor in history. Just a decade more and his time as the Dark Knight will be Legendary.
+kNIGHTWING01 hey kwing love your videos quick suggestion in the future can you either play spiderman web of shadows or hulk ultimate destination please!!!? Thanks. Love the joker he's like my nightwing hello from Ireland!
What if the batgirl prologue was about batgirl and nightwing taking down the joker similar to the batgirl dlc in arkham knight but with nightwing instead of Tim drake robin
That's apparently his reasoning. I'm cool with his opinions of course but he's contradicting himself a bit. To be fair though, I didn't finish the video yet. I am 10 minutes in.
I know what he meant, but his wording didn't come off right. It's like in the flash tv show. It's totally okay for Barry and Iris to hook up. Definitely not cool for Barry and Joe to hook up.
Technically even the Batman Beyond cartoon series had the whole Bruce and Barbara relationship. There was a scene at a diner early on in the show where Barbara and Terry were talking and Barbara basically confirmed that she and Bruce had been a couple and possibly more. The way that scene went I personally came away from that scene thinking that Barbara and Bruce had actually been married for a short time....and the thought of their animated series counterparts being married is just....ugh.
+kNIGHTWING01 i'm looking for the article now but Bruce Tim did a interview saying that he never wanted to do the killing joke because he thought it would not ever be done correctly if you watch the panel from, comic con he is very standoffish and when that fight breaks out he wants nothing to do it!!!
2 Guys from the Funny Farm, break out. And try to escape. But they are insane. Both believe that a person is able to walk on a beam of light to safety. The Joke is, both are insane.
I don't believe Bruce Timm one bit. He put that prologue in the Killing Joke where it didn't belong, and he didn't even try to match it up with the rest of the movie. The movie was about the conflict between Joker and Jim Gordon, not Batgirl and Batman.
After watching this review i dont think I'll watch it. The Killing Joke is one of my favorite comics and I don't want to watch something that turns it into some fanfiction bullshit
+XaNvAzAn !!! Yeah but even that much fell a little flat considering what could have been expected, especially in an adaptation of this story. Especially from Bruce Timm.
I wouldn't say the BatmanxBatgirl thing would be incest or pedophilia but I do think it is unneeded and in bad taste. From what I can tell of the whole Batgirl thing they added to the movie it just degraded her down to a lustful, angsty, lover girl instead of the heroine she was before and after getting shot. And it does seem to take the center stage away from who the story really was supposed to be about which takes away a lot of the weight behind it
The Pedo thing comes from Barbara knowing Batman since She was 4. Then training with Him as an Adult. It's very creepy. But hence many people are disturbed. Anyone saying they are the same age, are incorrect and babs statement proves this. The sound track for the roof scene is called regret. It also proves the character's immense guilt.
+kNIGHTWING01 I guess I can see how that particular psychological complex could make sense here as incestual, but it still feels like a bit of a stretch. The master and student angle makes a bit more sense, as it's somewhat taboo, and I think that was their point. Personally I find the whole thing really unnecessary to the plot, and it just makes Batgirl look like she's a reprobate sexual deviant rather than the character she was portrayed to be in any previous incarnation. I fully agree that it weakens Batgirl's character to that of an impulsive, manipulative immature person who just got in too deep and pays the consequence. The original treatment may have been horrible, but as some others have said THIS IS EVEN WORSE. What about how Batman is relegated to effectively being the victim of Batgirl's advances (Hence the "Regret" title) and Joker's retaliation, while Gordon NOW exists merely for plotline purposes?
I should say I agree with you on how Batgirl was weakened as a character. I just noticed you said basically the same thing earlier.. (Apologies for double-posting. Mobile UA-cam doesn't have an Edit Comment feature yet)
"Im a huge batman fan, and I dont mind this" NO YOU ARE NOT A HUGE BATMAN FAN, huge batman would actually care about the source material and wanted it to be treated well, all your showing is that your fine if writers butchering characters, and your are just a push over, "Big" fans should not support this or be fine with this what so ever, if you dont know Batman that well, ok that is fine but realize why the real "Big" batman fans are outraged
I am a "real" Batman fan, just as much as any "real" Batman fan, and I'm perfectly okay with Barbara and Bruce together. I know many others that are as well. It makes sense. Then again I am as open minded about sexuality and relationships, as much as I am a huge Bat-fanatic. It's OKAY people. It's okay.
personally I still love this film. At least half of itfor the most part. I think the joker side makes up for the first half however I will never again watch the first half.
i just noticed, when the screen has the laughing fish, there are Oscar Romero and Heath Ledger's Joker's right next to each other! that is awesome! (top row, right side, Ledger is next to Jason Todd and Romero is next to beach Joker) fun fact! the mask that Ledger wore during the heist scene of The Dark Knight was based upon the mask that Romero wore in the opera scene of Adam West's show which is shown on that screen! also the interpretation of Ledger's Joker is during the scene where Gordon becomes commissioner! i love this screen!
13:17 I get what you're saying, but remember, Batgirl wasn't a character either in the original book. She was a plot device, and a classic example of 'Women in Refrigerators.' So while I understand your criticism with Batgirl comprising a half hour before The Joker (And believe me I've been there) at least they still tried to establish her character in contrast with the actual Killing Joke story. I mean yeah, obviously it wasn't handled very well, but it did try to do so. Babara herself is not the problem, it's the overall context of the prologue itself that's the problem and unjusts the actual story. In fact you can say the events of the prologue also hurt Barbara as well as Batman and Joker in the actual story, since it makes it even more of a frigging. (Also, this isn't suppose to connect to the DCAU universe.)
you're welcome Kwing, much love to your channel and much success to you and I hate that they won't do it, you have a lot of insight and a lot of great ideas but much love and much success😀
It could be. I like to imagine it's Joker who holds the flashlight considering that he's free from moral restrictions due to his philosophy and hes always trying to get Batman to come around to that freedom. But I suppose it's open to interpretation, or maybe it's madness trying to figure it out in the first place. Hmmmm....
The review i've been waiting for since i first heard about what happens in the Batgirl prologue. THANK YOU, Luke!!! Personally, at first, i somewhat dreaded the idea of taking this particular graphic novel to animation, because of what happens to Barbara Gordon. However, as a stand-alone story i could get past that sentiment, and then when Bruce Timm said they were going to add a Batgirl story to compensate for how she's "Only there to get shot" in the novel. I expected something heroic that would showcase how great of a character she was when she was Batgirl, to make the audience more aware of who was being shot beyond the fact that it was Gordon's daughter. Instead we got this. Akward. Out of character. Batcest.... Ew. ew. ew!!!! ...and even the Oracle scene at the end doesn't make up for it, because it feels too much like an after-thought. If they wanted to include that, they should have added the story of how Barbara learns to deal with being disabled, and slowly finds a new destiny for herself as she invents the persona of Oracle. The film just shows her in a wheelchair saying "let's get back to work", as if it was something she thought up over night, and not a huge life-changing transformation and discovery of her own abilities with computer science. Personally now, i just want to forget this crappy adaptation, and move on. I just hope that none of this bleeds into other animation projects.
Kwing have ya seen the deluxe batman killing joke, it has some controversy there too! How would ya feel on deluxe version of the movie with the added material of the deluxe killing joke comic added an stuff from movie added to comic?
They honestly should have done the Animated series method of voice acting. Have the Actors record thier lines, then animate. Allowing the actors to actually preform instead of keeping up with the reel. Notice how Joker is talking really fast during the "bad day" monologue. Mark is trying to keep up with the Movie.
At first I considered Killing Joke as my favorite animated DC Movie {I seen so far} Others were Batman Beyond, Phantasm, and Flashpoint Paradox. But after hearing fans of the comic and critics give their input on the movie, well for not reading the Killing Joke comic before, I just saw this movie as having a bone chilling third act. Some of the art that I bet was inspired directly to the comic looked amazing and maybe they could have stuck to that art a lot more often in the movie. I just look at it as another Batman cartoon.
+kNIGHTWING01 what do you think about "Batgirl #35" where she's wearing the purple leather jacket, and she and Black Canary are roommates? Cause I like it, alot! But I want to hear your opinion.
"Those of you who were cool with the roof top scene are probably subconsciously cool with incest." Bruce and Barbara aren't related. She and Nightwing are NOT teens in the movie. The plot is in no way intertwined with BTAS, nor does it have ANY effect outside of it's own universe. It's it's own story that leads into a version of The Killing Joke. So, how is it incestual, when they aren't related, and consenting adults? Answer me that. People will find things to bitch about whether they actually exit or they have to make them up to find flaws.
It would be like having sex with your child's spouse, just creepy, I know that's not how this universe was, but that's how her character is everywhere else, so it's just creepy
I actually found the killing joke deluxe edition recently and got it all at Walmart it's pretty cool what's behind the cover that says it's name a picture of batman and joker fighting it was a really good book
for the last time....ITS NOT INCEST! babs has a father, a great one in fact, BATMAN is not a father to her, more like a teacher, like a college teacher, and they made a choice that was hers and her alone to made, made me care about Babs a lot more than before (always been a fan of Cassie batgirl) I'm OK with this and how it was handled
+Shashank Gupta some woman have been doing that sort of thing for a while now, a grown woman has to the choice to sleep with whoever she wants, what gives us the right to judge them?
What i also noticed is that a lot of the animation feels really choppy and flat. There hardly seems to be any real depth to the environments, and the characters all seem to walk through them like flat cardboards. The movement of the characters lacked the sort of fluent movement that we're used to from the DCAU. So much animation felt like it lacked a lot of frames to make the animation look like real movement. That's weird. For such an anticipated adaptation, and the fact that they showed it in theaters, you'd expect at least the animation to be top-notch, but it really was pretty mediocre, even for straight-2-DVD.
Excellent review Kwing, after the first 30 minutes, the excitement vanished completely, I really don't know if I'll watch the movie ever again. btw, didn't you also say that Retrun of the Joker was one of Mark's best performance?
so question to everyone: did you guys like the rendition of "I go Looney" during the madhouse ride? I know there's an audioplay or dramatic reading here on youtube where the team essentially set it to the tune of 'Always look on the bright side of life" - I'm not sure which version worked better. (obviously they couldn't set it to that song for royalty reasons) Also, the animation for the carnies dancing during it felt lackluster.
Loved the review knightwing. I am scared for this videos though, DC might take it down for copyright or something. I agree with everything that you said, I just wanted to point out one more thing. I felt that Kevin Conroy had no energy in this movie in particular. You showed clips from the animated the series, then I searched online some clips of Arkham Knight and City, Kevin Conroy is so much better in those performarces. Not sure what really happened with this movie, directing seems like it is the real problem, but aside from Mark Hamill, all other actors didn't put too much energy in their performarces. Anyway, this is just my opinion.
I love the review Kwing. I'm so sorry to you and Amber.... I really wanna like this movie. I keep trying to force all.... THAT stuff out but really can't... Idk how to. I love the Joker, and I was so excited to see a movie showing how he was before the laughter ( maybe possibly, who actually knows, heck even the Joker doesn't even remember) Idk should I just try to like or push to away..Idk I just don't know.
Actually, can someone make a better cut of this film? Maybe edit all the bad scenes in the films like the Barbara and Bruce relation ship in the beginning of the film?
If Timm connected it to TAS then that would mean Batman didn't kill the Joker. The ending could be interpreted as Batman strangling the Joker to unconciousness but not crossing the line. Almost crossing it during his maniacal laughter but stopping himself. Which would have several implications in and of itself. He "almost" blinked.
So does this mean Kwife has seen it or no? I thought it would be hilarious to have a reaction video of her watching it. (I hate those kind of videos but I would watch this one :) )
Wait are you calling it inc*st because she been with Batman and his son? Because that’s not inc*st. Now if she’s directly related to them then it was already inc*st before this movie. Anyway I don’t get your point and the scene was hot so....
16:46 actually it's reverse the batmobile in the animated series ('92-'95) was modeled after keaton's batmobile then in the sequel continuation in 15:58 *The New Batman Adventures ('97-99) (which u also got wrong btw) 👉 (the new adventures of batman) that's when they later gave the batmobile it's own designed. some will argue and say that it took some of the design ideas from batman forever batmobile. the animated series originally took heavily inspiration from burton's batman movies by capitalizing on the dark gritty look, tone and style that burton's batman movies introduced Even reusing burton's batman returns theme by Danny Elfman for batman the animated series. ppl nowadays trying to give the show far more credit than what it actually deserves but what made the show stand out is that it gave birth and the creation of Harley Quinn and a different approach to the characters so it can be a little more kid friendly while still having some mature themes mixed in although some of the episodes references burton's batman alot. yeah, modern bruce timm is the current out of touch modern day Tim burton, but don't want to admit his glory days is far behind him, he's still pretending as if whatever does will turn into gold. both of them trying too hard to alter their past work with their current day takes, and its just not good as they think it is. LOL i'm not going to see this movie just like i'm never going to see that awful Batman and Harley Quinn (2017) how they kept overly sexualized Harley in that she was so out of character in that movie idgaf what they say it's not canon to me. the same way u feel about this Batman The Killing Joke movie is how i feel about Batman and Harley Quinn. i won't even force myself to buy it on blu ray or watch it for free and just not watching it at all in general bcuz the trailer showed everything that i need to know about the movie how that keep zooming in panning in every time she kept bending over like its some kind of porno or some shit. like wtf smfh yeah the problem is when dc and wbd made the animated movies and shows into a universe that's when everything turned shit. back in the day everything was a stand alone with a small cameos and small appearances here and there but it was never the selling point and never hit u over the head with it and still was able to tell the story that they wanted to tell. WBD shot themselves in the foot when they're trying to hard to be like marvel by making it a "shared connected universe" by limiting themselves so now nothing stands out and everything feels the same.
I like the graphic novel and have yet to see the movie but honestly these things I've heard they added really don't bother me much I understand the additions and the batgirl part for character development, I agree it is very awkward and strange but only because they've known each other for so long and because batman, Ronin and batgirl have a father, son and daughter relationship that being said though they AREN'T related, I'm not justifying the changes but it just seems to me that it's the same basic story as the novel with the edition of extra stuff to pad out the time and I'm fine with that btw just because the voice actors are the same iconic people that voiced the characters in the animated series DOSENT connect the movie and the series that's like saying the Arkham games are connected to the animated series their just the same great iconic voices (just because their are callbacks to TAS doesn't mean it's meant to take place in the same universe)
I never read the graphic novel and I'm not seeing the movie because I knew it would suck. I'd rather watch Mask of the Phantasm, Batman Under the Red Hood, and even Batman Beyond Return of the Joker than this.
I'll be honest. When I watched the movie (the first thirty minutes) I stopped, walked around my house and sat on if I should continue. I soon got back to it and I really enjoyed the second half. You are right that skipping thirty minutes is a bad all round, but once the first thirty minutes left, I felt like I was watching what I wanted to see. I actually don't hate the movie as I'm conflicted. I've actually considered stopping with the DC animated films, but seeing Matt Ryan as Constantine in Justice League: Dark is kinda persuading me to give it a shot. If this comment is too long, it is as I typed it on an iPad.
I went in really excited for the movie. And my excitement fizzled out with all the Batgirl stuff. I had to pause the movie after rooftop scene and ask why that was a thing. Picked up a bit when the actual Killing Joke stuff started to happen but it was a little late and the damage had been done. If I watch it again I'm skipping all the Batgirl stuff.
One of the things that disappointed me, was actually that they didn't add any soundtrack when Joker turns into the Joker in his flashbacks...i expected a more dramatic approach for that scene, instead all we hear is Joker's laugh but after a while, it just makes a flat scene of it...you don't feel anything basically
Sorry about your experience, Luke. And for Amber as well. The main reason I intend to watch the film myself, is on the off-chance I make my own review. As a challenge more than anything, to see how much I can seperate my own feelings for the sake of a review. (Something I want to do for Flashpoint Paradox sometime.) I'm not calling you out in that regard (although, _if_ I felt you were getting too emotional rather than analytical, during a review of some kind, I _would_ do my best to say my piece of constructive criticism). The main reason I'm not calling you out for being a fanboy in this review, was because of: what this movie was based on, the claims that the people at DC failed to meet, and what was changed when it didn't need to be. Even if the faux-incest wasn't a factor, people have a right to be upset from how underplayed the dilemma was between Joker and Gordon, and how much time Batgirl takes the focus away from the original story, when she didn't _need to._ If they wanted to have an original movie about Batgirl, then make an original movie about Batgirl. Maybe even change her age so any love scenes between her and Bruce would be less creepy, but also be used source of good drama. But don't claim to make an adaptation of a critically acclaimed story, one you *know* that people would high expectations for, and then go and add some things that *_you're interested_*_,_ just to see *_your own ideas_* come to life. Maybe I'll have a different tune after I see the film myself, but who knows?
I totally agree with your summery and opinion and even just getting rid of the first 30 min would make it more truthful to the comic but one point where oi disagree is the ending I thought they still made it kind of hard to know whether batman kill joker or not but turning that particular page In the book into a good would be hard considering that they had to have the jokers laughter cut off before batmans
I tried to like this movie but after what you said and re reading the comic and lots of thinking, I felt empty, hurt and worst of all pissed. And yet DC comics allowed this to happen?
one thing I didn't like is how it showed Jason Todd robin on Batman monitor, even though Death in the Family didn't take place until after The Killing Joke
I don't know if I will watch the movie because I am a huge Nightwing and Bavs fan and that scene ruined it for me. Also knowing that the Joker gets shunned and nobody can understand his backstory and feel sorry for him takes away from the movie/comic. I never read the comic fully but seeing a lot of reviews and snipits of the movie it doesn't live to the hype of the killing joke comic. Before anyone says you did'nt read the comic so ho can you judge the movie, I know about 90% of the comic and it upsets me such a big comic did not get justice.
I've read the comic and saw the movie and I thought it was just fine. You can't make a movie exactly the way the comic/book is. What's the fun in that?
I’d say Batman Beyond Return Of The Joker is also one of Conroy’s and Hamill’s best performances because that film did what this film did but a lot better and without an R-rating.
Did you do a review on Batman and Harley Quinn (2017), not that I would recommend the movie, as it was worse than The Killing Joke. Consenting adults, doesn't mean every connection is a good connection. A married man sleeping with a woman who isn't his wife, though mutually decided to consent to the act, is still not a good connection. Bruce sleeping with Barbara is another example of a bad connection. Bruce Timm really didn't respect the characters. He's a good artist, but I do believe when he and Paul Dini were a writing team, Paul Dini was the better writer, and Dini has proven himself to be a strong stand-alone writer. Bruce Timm is not great as a stand-alone writer. And the reason we don't have a live action Batman Beyond movie is because Timm won't allow anyone else to handle his baby. Though it seems like Timm's handling of other people's works has resulted in shenanigans being added to the movie, which detracted from the original stories. Batman and Harley Quinn (2017) has to be the worst one I've seen so far... even disrespecting the Nightwing character. It's like Timm wants the animated movies to venture into B movie grade soft core porn. They need some new creators at these studios.
I agree with you Luke I really thought the rooftop scene was awkward and it made me want to stop watching the movie. I think they could've put the R rating to good use and make the movie as dark as the book but instead they wasted it on the scene which was very weird and creepy to see Bruce and Babs together
I don't get how you think Batman was going towards the Joker in revenge for what happened to Barbara instead of his usual FOR JUSTICE stride, I never thought of it that way for a second. The Batgirl story was far too disjointed from the Joker story, though. Disappointing.
This shows that one bad movie can turn a man as mad as the Joker.
lol that's what I said
me too
All it takes is one bad movie.
m.ua-cam.com/video/8nUKRUB9qfA/v-deo.html
Well said😅👍🏻
Okay so first Barbra dates Tim Drake in arkham knight who's like her (ex) boyfriend's brother then she makes out with batman ? What's next ? Barbra marries Alfred ?
m.ua-cam.com/video/8nUKRUB9qfA/v-deo.html
Mark Hamill and Kevin Conroy's best performances are the Arkham series of games by far.
The greatest superhero game series ever
I'd say Mask of the Phantasm myself, but their Arkham work is tough to beat
You cant go wrong with Arkham games or anything related to the animated series in this competition
I agree
yeah though animated series come close to me
I get it now! The point of this movie was Joker teaching us that it takes one bad day (movie) for a person to go insane. The day we see this, is the day we go insane. It IS like the ride Gordan was on!
I liked the end credits because that meant it was over
Corn Dawg 1198 Yassssss!
it felt like batgirl the killing joke for the fist 30 minutes
Fucking Batman was her development? Yeah okay
not even the batgirl the killing joke it's more like the angsty adventures of batgirl
They didn't bring back Kevin Conroy. He never left.
lol they have him on speed dial. Kevin has played the longer then any actor in history. Just a decade more and his time as the Dark Knight will be Legendary.
+kNIGHTWING01 what about superman voice actor from the animated series
+kNIGHTWING01 hey kwing love your videos quick suggestion in the future can you either play spiderman web of shadows or hulk ultimate destination please!!!? Thanks. Love the joker he's like my nightwing hello from Ireland!
Luke O Doherty im with you on the spiderman and hulk games
@@kNIGHTWING01 can you imagine konroy doing the I know pain line from year one?
What if the batgirl prologue was about batgirl and nightwing taking down the joker similar to the batgirl dlc in arkham knight but with nightwing instead of Tim drake robin
I'll be honest, I find the Barbara x Tim relationship kind of creepy too.
Eh, it's like incest between little brother and big sister, still creepy.
So Batman and Batgirl is like incest but nightwing and Babs aren't?
uhh, no. How is that incest?
That's apparently his reasoning. I'm cool with his opinions of course but he's contradicting himself a bit. To be fair though, I didn't finish the video yet. I am 10 minutes in.
+TornadoFire if that isn't incest then batman and batgirl isn't either
+TornadoFire he's referring to how they would be like brother and sister but I wouldn't really agree with that.
I know what he meant, but his wording didn't come off right. It's like in the flash tv show. It's totally okay for Barry and Iris to hook up. Definitely not cool for Barry and Joe to hook up.
Technically even the Batman Beyond cartoon series had the whole Bruce and Barbara relationship. There was a scene at a diner early on in the show where Barbara and Terry were talking and Barbara basically confirmed that she and Bruce had been a couple and possibly more. The way that scene went I personally came away from that scene thinking that Barbara and Bruce had actually been married for a short time....and the thought of their animated series counterparts being married is just....ugh.
Paul Dini should've been there
Yeah I love Bruce Timm's art but he is a horrible writer Paul should've been involved in the story more then him
kevin Conroy's batman should never laugh. It sounds creepy and weird.
That's the point
He laughed in the animated series. But the fact that he laughed at Joker's joke is meant to be out of character
+bloodpondstudios If you die in the Laughing Gas room in Arkham Asylum, You can listen to KC's Batman laughing really creepy.
+Jini Salliego Really?? Damn, I should replay it again next time I get the chance
That's the point. The ending is supposed to make you shudder.
This movie kinda proves who was the real genius in charge of the DCAU and that was Paul Dini
Yup
+kNIGHTWING01 i'm looking for the article now but Bruce Tim did a interview saying that he never wanted to do the killing joke because he thought it would not ever be done correctly if you watch the panel from, comic con he is very standoffish and when that fight breaks out he wants nothing to do it!!!
WHY TIMMY WHY??!!
I'm sorry but i don't get the joke :(
can someone please explain
2 Guys from the Funny Farm, break out. And try to escape. But they are insane. Both believe that a person is able to walk on a beam of light to safety. The Joke is, both are insane.
+kNIGHTWING01 Bruce Timm said that he didn't want that scene in the film at all.
I don't believe Bruce Timm one bit. He put that prologue in the Killing Joke where it didn't belong, and he didn't even try to match it up with the rest of the movie. The movie was about the conflict between Joker and Jim Gordon, not Batgirl and Batman.
kNIGHTWING01 its good to know i can rely on you to answer your fans questions
thank you
i understand the joke now
np
The only good part of the film was the 30 Joker story, hate the Barbara part. Wouldn't you agree.
Sorry typo my bad I originally wrote the best part was the 30 mins of the Joker story but I got rid of that because there was more.
My favourite easter egg was Joker in the Ledger pose from the jail cell that you also see on the batcomputer screen.
It's already Scary when Joker Laughs most of the time and when Batman (Kevin Conroy) Laughing is even more terrifying.............I LIKE IT😅
You know what would've been better?
If Paul Dini wrote the movie instead of Brian Azzarello.
After watching this review i dont think I'll watch it. The Killing Joke is one of my favorite comics and I don't want to watch something that turns it into some fanfiction bullshit
it's good if you skip all the Barbara stuff
Honestly, I would advice you not to. The Killing Joke is my favorite as well and believe me, this film is not worth watching. At all.
skip 35 minutes and watch it for free somewhere
+XaNvAzAn !!!
Yeah but even that much fell a little flat considering what could have been expected, especially in an adaptation of this story. Especially from Bruce Timm.
Yeah skip to the third act.
I wouldn't say the BatmanxBatgirl thing would be incest or pedophilia but I do think it is unneeded and in bad taste. From what I can tell of the whole Batgirl thing they added to the movie it just degraded her down to a lustful, angsty, lover girl instead of the heroine she was before and after getting shot. And it does seem to take the center stage away from who the story really was supposed to be about which takes away a lot of the weight behind it
The Pedo thing comes from Barbara knowing Batman since She was 4. Then training with Him as an Adult. It's very creepy. But hence many people are disturbed. Anyone saying they are the same age, are incorrect and babs statement proves this. The sound track for the roof scene is called regret. It also proves the character's immense guilt.
+kNIGHTWING01 I guess I can see how that particular psychological complex could make sense here as incestual, but it still feels like a bit of a stretch.
The master and student angle makes a bit more sense, as it's somewhat taboo, and I think that was their point.
Personally I find the whole thing really unnecessary to the plot, and it just makes Batgirl look like she's a reprobate sexual deviant rather than the character she was portrayed to be in any previous incarnation.
I fully agree that it weakens Batgirl's character to that of an impulsive, manipulative immature person who just got in too deep and pays the consequence.
The original treatment may have been horrible, but as some others have said THIS IS EVEN WORSE.
What about how Batman is relegated to effectively being the victim of Batgirl's advances (Hence the "Regret" title) and Joker's retaliation, while Gordon NOW exists merely for plotline purposes?
I should say I agree with you on how Batgirl was weakened as a character. I just noticed you said basically the same thing earlier.. (Apologies for double-posting. Mobile UA-cam doesn't have an Edit Comment feature yet)
+thedatatreader There's a reason why the group of Bat heroes is referred to as "The Bat Family".
"Im a huge batman fan, and I dont mind this"
NO YOU ARE NOT A HUGE BATMAN FAN, huge batman would actually care about the source material and wanted it to be treated well, all your showing is that your fine if writers butchering characters, and your are just a push over, "Big" fans should not support this or be fine with this what so ever, if you dont know Batman that well, ok that is fine but realize why the real "Big" batman fans are outraged
I agree
Some people are like I'm fine with this and I like batman
While real fans of the batman series hate that Barbra and batman scene 👿
I am a "real" Batman fan, just as much as any "real" Batman fan, and I'm perfectly okay with Barbara and Bruce together. I know many others that are as well. It makes sense. Then again I am as open minded about sexuality and relationships, as much as I am a huge Bat-fanatic. It's OKAY people. It's okay.
Travis Wayne "Real" Batman fans wouldn't want their characters butchered, congrats you are a push over
obigen oh so batman should go back to using guns i get it now
Hmm
Wasn't completely terrible (mostly) but it could have been SO MUCH BETTER WHY YOU DO THIS BRUCE?
Because he's Batman
@@abramsullivan7764 he's talking about Bruce Timm not Wayne
personally I still love this film. At least half of itfor the most part. I think the joker side makes up for the first half however I will never again watch the first half.
Me too
i just noticed, when the screen has the laughing fish, there are Oscar Romero and Heath Ledger's Joker's right next to each other!
that is awesome! (top row, right side, Ledger is next to Jason Todd and Romero is next to beach Joker)
fun fact! the mask that Ledger wore during the heist scene of The Dark Knight was based upon the mask that Romero wore in the opera scene of Adam West's show which is shown on that screen! also the interpretation of Ledger's Joker is during the scene where Gordon becomes commissioner! i love this screen!
Wait a minute, wasn't Batgirl 17 in this movie and Batman was 37?
Bruce said She was 18 or 19. But She has known him since She was 4 or 8.
+kwingsletsplays thank you, I was really confused on her age.
batgirl 23 batman 40
Amazing review. You spoke my thoughts word for word.
I think the movie was good, I just don't like the batman and Barbra part
same just weird
OMG I AGREE.
13:17 I get what you're saying, but remember, Batgirl wasn't a character either in the original book. She was a plot device, and a classic example of 'Women in Refrigerators.' So while I understand your criticism with Batgirl comprising a half hour before The Joker (And believe me I've been there) at least they still tried to establish her character in contrast with the actual Killing Joke story.
I mean yeah, obviously it wasn't handled very well, but it did try to do so. Babara herself is not the problem, it's the overall context of the prologue itself that's the problem and unjusts the actual story. In fact you can say the events of the prologue also hurt Barbara as well as Batman and Joker in the actual story, since it makes it even more of a frigging.
(Also, this isn't suppose to connect to the DCAU universe.)
it kinds sound like kwing got his one bad day.
was that tasteful or no
you're welcome Kwing, much love to your channel and much success to you and I hate that they won't do it, you have a lot of insight and a lot of great ideas but much love and much success😀
I love The Joke
You're everywh
I didn't get it
+jozah mann
Joker was the guy with the flashlight, Batman was the guy who couldn't jump across and free himself. Think about it.
+Kaleb Hay or maybe its the other way around
It could be. I like to imagine it's Joker who holds the flashlight considering that he's free from moral restrictions due to his philosophy and hes always trying to get Batman to come around to that freedom. But I suppose it's open to interpretation, or maybe it's madness trying to figure it out in the first place. Hmmmm....
17:36 there was also a reference to Heath leadger's Joker in the top right
NewController01 and 1960s Batman in the top middle as well as the 1989 batman left to that
The review i've been waiting for since i first heard about what happens in the Batgirl prologue. THANK YOU, Luke!!!
Personally, at first, i somewhat dreaded the idea of taking this particular graphic novel to animation, because of what happens to Barbara Gordon. However, as a stand-alone story i could get past that sentiment, and then when Bruce Timm said they were going to add a Batgirl story to compensate for how she's "Only there to get shot" in the novel.
I expected something heroic that would showcase how great of a character she was when she was Batgirl, to make the audience more aware of who was being shot beyond the fact that it was Gordon's daughter.
Instead we got this. Akward. Out of character. Batcest.... Ew. ew. ew!!!!
...and even the Oracle scene at the end doesn't make up for it, because it feels too much like an after-thought. If they wanted to include that, they should have added the story of how Barbara learns to deal with being disabled, and slowly finds a new destiny for herself as she invents the persona of Oracle. The film just shows her in a wheelchair saying "let's get back to work", as if it was something she thought up over night, and not a huge life-changing transformation and discovery of her own abilities with computer science.
Personally now, i just want to forget this crappy adaptation, and move on. I just hope that none of this bleeds into other animation projects.
Kwing have ya seen the deluxe batman killing joke, it has some controversy there too! How would ya feel on deluxe version of the movie with the added material of the deluxe killing joke comic added an stuff from movie added to comic?
for me after the batgirl prologue it was fine. not completely respectful of the original but still fair enough.
They honestly should have done the Animated series method of voice acting. Have the Actors record thier lines, then animate. Allowing the actors to actually preform instead of keeping up with the reel. Notice how Joker is talking really fast during the "bad day" monologue. Mark is trying to keep up with the Movie.
Luke....I just want to know one thing..how did Amber take it?
Not well.
+kwingsletsplays makes sense... It's disgusting.
+kwingsletsplays I'm pretty sure choking Bruce Timm wouldn't be a crime
+kwingsletsplays thanks for answering...I hope you both recover from this monstrocity.
@@kwingsletsplays jeez
At first I considered Killing Joke as my favorite animated DC Movie {I seen so far}
Others were Batman Beyond, Phantasm, and Flashpoint Paradox.
But after hearing fans of the comic and critics give their input on the movie, well for not reading the Killing Joke comic before, I just saw this movie as having a bone chilling third act. Some of the art that I bet was inspired directly to the comic looked amazing and maybe they could have stuck to that art a lot more often in the movie. I just look at it as another Batman cartoon.
I honestly would have gave this a 10/10 if it was Night wing she did it with
+kNIGHTWING01 what do you think about "Batgirl #35" where she's wearing the purple leather jacket, and she and Black Canary are roommates? Cause I like it, alot! But I want to hear your opinion.
So they turn one of the greatest Batman comics of all time into one of the most dissapointing CBM's ever.
No the most disappointing was Bat Blood
I loved the actual killing joke story, but the first 30 minutes was crap.
"Those of you who were cool with the roof top scene are probably subconsciously cool with incest."
Bruce and Barbara aren't related. She and Nightwing are NOT teens in the movie. The plot is in no way intertwined with BTAS, nor does it have ANY effect outside of it's own universe. It's it's own story that leads into a version of The Killing Joke.
So, how is it incestual, when they aren't related, and consenting adults?
Answer me that. People will find things to bitch about whether they actually exit or they have to make them up to find flaws.
couldn't have said it better
Agreed
Bat-Family, Batman is supposed to be a paternal figure, not really much so of a romantic figure for Batgirl.
Man I can't understand what you are saying may you please explain?
It would be like having sex with your child's spouse, just creepy, I know that's not how this universe was, but that's how her character is everywhere else, so it's just creepy
I actually found the killing joke deluxe edition recently and got it all at Walmart it's pretty cool what's behind the cover that says it's name a picture of batman and joker fighting it was a really good book
they really ruined the movie
I always thought at the end of the book they share a laugh then batman grabs him by the coat and takes him to Arkham
for the last time....ITS NOT INCEST! babs has a father, a great one in fact, BATMAN is not a father to her, more like a teacher, like a college teacher, and they made a choice that was hers and her alone to made, made me care about Babs a lot more than before (always been a fan of Cassie batgirl) I'm OK with this and how it was handled
He means bat family not relatives
+Kian King I know, but still not incest in the least
Its still creepy as hell though. Imagine banging your much older college professor. Honestly that's creepy as hell, (well to me at least).
+Shashank Gupta some woman have been doing that sort of thing for a while now, a grown woman has to the choice to sleep with whoever she wants, what gives us the right to judge them?
Lyndon Wellington Point taken. Not agreed with but taken.
What i also noticed is that a lot of the animation feels really choppy and flat. There hardly seems to be any real depth to the environments, and the characters all seem to walk through them like flat cardboards.
The movement of the characters lacked the sort of fluent movement that we're used to from the DCAU. So much animation felt like it lacked a lot of frames to make the animation look like real movement.
That's weird. For such an anticipated adaptation, and the fact that they showed it in theaters, you'd expect at least the animation to be top-notch, but it really was pretty mediocre, even for straight-2-DVD.
Excellent review Kwing, after the first 30 minutes, the excitement vanished completely, I really don't know if I'll watch the movie ever again. btw, didn't you also say that Retrun of the Joker was one of Mark's best performance?
so question to everyone: did you guys like the rendition of "I go Looney" during the madhouse ride? I know there's an audioplay or dramatic reading here on youtube where the team essentially set it to the tune of 'Always look on the bright side of life" - I'm not sure which version worked better. (obviously they couldn't set it to that song for royalty reasons)
Also, the animation for the carnies dancing during it felt lackluster.
Nice little nod to Heath Ledger at 17:30
Loved the review knightwing. I am scared for this videos though, DC might take it down for copyright or something. I agree with everything that you said, I just wanted to point out one more thing. I felt that Kevin Conroy had no energy in this movie in particular. You showed clips from the animated the series, then I searched online some clips of Arkham Knight and City, Kevin Conroy is so much better in those performarces.
Not sure what really happened with this movie, directing seems like it is the real problem, but aside from Mark Hamill, all other actors didn't put too much energy in their performarces. Anyway, this is just my opinion.
They do tend to remove reviews, they don't agree with we'll see though.
i think i wall ways knew that bruce tim would have barb and bruce hook up. have you seen bruce tim's art of the two
I love the review Kwing. I'm so sorry to you and Amber....
I really wanna like this movie. I keep trying to force all.... THAT stuff out but really can't... Idk how to. I love the Joker, and I was so excited to see a movie showing how he was before the laughter ( maybe possibly, who actually knows, heck even the Joker doesn't even remember) Idk should I just try to like or push to away..Idk I just don't know.
Actually, can someone make a better cut of this film? Maybe edit all the bad scenes in the films like the Barbara and Bruce relation ship in the beginning of the film?
I prefer the Motion Comic, it's here on UA-cam and it's WAY better
+TheFedehugo I'll have to check that out
Can we just have a cut that only keeps the things from the original comic!?
The directors cut of BvS had roughly 30 mins of cut footage... Maybe if they make a directors cut of this, they could cut roughly 30 mins out
If Timm connected it to TAS then that would mean Batman didn't kill the Joker.
The ending could be interpreted as Batman strangling the Joker to unconciousness but not crossing the line. Almost crossing it during his maniacal laughter but stopping himself. Which would have several implications in and of itself. He "almost" blinked.
compered to the original I don't know why but it looks like very little emotion was put in to the ending.
KWING WHAT IS THE PIANO MUSIC YOURE USING?
Well I could say it's not Batman & Robin bad. Is there a chance for you to review B&R?
On the lafco scene, the upper left corner is from the Dark Knight Returns PT2 from the joker interview
So does this mean Kwife has seen it or no? I thought it would be hilarious to have a reaction video of her watching it. (I hate those kind of videos but I would watch this one :) )
I ignored the beginning when I got to joker's part and I didn't realize joker died
Wait are you calling it inc*st because she been with Batman and his son? Because that’s not inc*st. Now if she’s directly related to them then it was already inc*st before this movie. Anyway I don’t get your point and the scene was hot so....
Your deranged.
He is just having a hissy fit
I just wanted to point out the nods to the Nicholson and Ledger Jokers on the Bat-computer. Just noticed them.
16:46 actually it's reverse the batmobile in the animated series ('92-'95) was modeled after keaton's batmobile then in the sequel continuation in 15:58 *The New Batman Adventures ('97-99) (which u also got wrong btw) 👉 (the new adventures of batman) that's when they later gave the batmobile it's own designed. some will argue and say that it took some of the design ideas from batman forever batmobile.
the animated series originally took heavily inspiration from burton's batman movies by capitalizing on the dark gritty look, tone and style that burton's batman movies introduced Even reusing burton's batman returns theme by Danny Elfman for batman the animated series. ppl nowadays trying to give the show far more credit than what it actually deserves but what made the show stand out is that it gave birth and the creation of Harley Quinn and a different approach to the characters so it can be a little more kid friendly while still having some mature themes mixed in although some of the episodes references burton's batman alot.
yeah, modern bruce timm is the current out of touch modern day Tim burton, but don't want to admit his glory days is far behind him, he's still pretending as if whatever does will turn into gold. both of them trying too hard to alter their past work with their current day takes, and its just not good as they think it is. LOL i'm not going to see this movie just like i'm never going to see that awful Batman and Harley Quinn (2017) how they kept overly sexualized Harley in that she was so out of character in that movie idgaf what they say it's not canon to me. the same way u feel about this Batman The Killing Joke movie is how i feel about Batman and Harley Quinn. i won't even force myself to buy it on blu ray or watch it for free and just not watching it at all in general bcuz the trailer showed everything that i need to know about the movie how that keep zooming in panning in every time she kept bending over like its some kind of porno or some shit. like wtf smfh yeah the problem is when dc and wbd made the animated movies and shows into a universe that's when everything turned shit. back in the day everything was a stand alone with a small cameos and small appearances here and there but it was never the selling point and never hit u over the head with it and still was able to tell the story that they wanted to tell. WBD shot themselves in the foot when they're trying to hard to be like marvel by making it a "shared connected universe" by limiting themselves so now nothing stands out and everything feels the same.
So was Batman meant to be the first guy or the second guy in Joker's joke?
8:41 "... causing him to go TO insane." ??? ._.
I like the graphic novel and have yet to see the movie but honestly these things I've heard they added really don't bother me much I understand the additions and the batgirl part for character development, I agree it is very awkward and strange but only because they've known each other for so long and because batman, Ronin and batgirl have a father, son and daughter relationship that being said though they AREN'T related, I'm not justifying the changes but it just seems to me that it's the same basic story as the novel with the edition of extra stuff to pad out the time and I'm fine with that btw just because the voice actors are the same iconic people that voiced the characters in the animated series DOSENT connect the movie and the series that's like saying the Arkham games are connected to the animated series their just the same great iconic voices (just because their are callbacks to TAS doesn't mean it's meant to take place in the same universe)
I never read the graphic novel and I'm not seeing the movie because I knew it would suck. I'd rather watch Mask of the Phantasm, Batman Under the Red Hood, and even Batman Beyond Return of the Joker than this.
the picture of joker on the beach is the commercial from the Keaton movie
If you hear very closely at the end of the movie when they zoom onto the water you hear a snap what I think is that batman snapped jokers neck
Oh really
To be fair, if they took out the first 30 minutes or so, this movie wouldn't be half bad. BRAVO KWING, great review!!
I'm probably going to watch the killing joke because it seems like it could be a good film (if you skip the first 30 minutes).
So he's Batman AND Captain Sunshine...
I'll be honest. When I watched the movie (the first thirty minutes) I stopped, walked around my house and sat on if I should continue. I soon got back to it and I really enjoyed the second half. You are right that skipping thirty minutes is a bad all round, but once the first thirty minutes left, I felt like I was watching what I wanted to see. I actually don't hate the movie as I'm conflicted. I've actually considered stopping with the DC animated films, but seeing Matt Ryan as Constantine in Justice League: Dark is kinda persuading me to give it a shot. If this comment is too long, it is as I typed it on an iPad.
I went in really excited for the movie. And my excitement fizzled out with all the Batgirl stuff. I had to pause the movie after rooftop scene and ask why that was a thing. Picked up a bit when the actual Killing Joke stuff started to happen but it was a little late and the damage had been done. If I watch it again I'm skipping all the Batgirl stuff.
One of the things that disappointed me, was actually that they didn't add any soundtrack when Joker turns into the Joker in his flashbacks...i expected a more dramatic approach for that scene, instead all we hear is Joker's laugh but after a while, it just makes a flat scene of it...you don't feel anything basically
Sorry about your experience, Luke. And for Amber as well. The main reason I intend to watch the film myself, is on the off-chance I make my own review. As a challenge more than anything, to see how much I can seperate my own feelings for the sake of a review. (Something I want to do for Flashpoint Paradox sometime.)
I'm not calling you out in that regard (although, _if_ I felt you were getting too emotional rather than analytical, during a review of some kind, I _would_ do my best to say my piece of constructive criticism). The main reason I'm not calling you out for being a fanboy in this review, was because of: what this movie was based on, the claims that the people at DC failed to meet, and what was changed when it didn't need to be. Even if the faux-incest wasn't a factor, people have a right to be upset from how underplayed the dilemma was between Joker and Gordon, and how much time Batgirl takes the focus away from the original story, when she didn't _need to._
If they wanted to have an original movie about Batgirl, then make an original movie about Batgirl. Maybe even change her age so any love scenes between her and Bruce would be less creepy, but also be used source of good drama. But don't claim to make an adaptation of a critically acclaimed story, one you *know* that people would high expectations for, and then go and add some things that *_you're interested_*_,_ just to see *_your own ideas_* come to life.
Maybe I'll have a different tune after I see the film myself, but who knows?
I totally agree with your summery and opinion and even just getting rid of the first 30 min would make it more truthful to the comic but one point where oi disagree is the ending I thought they still made it kind of hard to know whether batman kill joker or not but turning that particular page In the book into a good would be hard considering that they had to have the jokers laughter cut off before batmans
I read the killing joke and if it goes beyond joker, then it is not the killing joke.
I tried to like this movie but after what you said and re reading the comic and lots of thinking, I felt empty, hurt and worst of all pissed. And yet DC comics allowed this to happen?
one thing I didn't like is how it showed Jason Todd robin on Batman monitor, even though Death in the Family didn't take place until after The Killing Joke
I think the beginning should have been the should been more stories of jokers past or just not have the extra 30 minutes
It should have been a bonus episode. With killing Joke, starting at Arkham
I don't know if I will watch the movie because I am a huge Nightwing and Bavs fan and that scene ruined it for me. Also knowing that the Joker gets shunned and nobody can understand his backstory and feel sorry for him takes away from the movie/comic. I never read the comic fully but seeing a lot of reviews and snipits of the movie it doesn't live to the hype of the killing joke comic. Before anyone says you did'nt read the comic so ho can you judge the movie, I know about 90% of the comic and it upsets me such a big comic did not get justice.
Woah! I did not know about that beyond 2.0 thing and now I wish I didn't. That baby was Bruce's, right? 0~o
I agree with pretty much everything you said but I think we just need forget the first 30 minutes the best we can
batfans let's pretend this movie never happend.
So which is worse? This, or bad blood?
I've read the comic and saw the movie and I thought it was just fine. You can't make a movie exactly the way the comic/book is. What's the fun in that?
I’d say Batman Beyond Return Of The Joker is also one of Conroy’s and Hamill’s best performances because that film did what this film did but a lot better and without an R-rating.
In the graphic novel, I don't think he kills Joker because in other graphic novels, they reference this, but Joker is still alive
What the hell happened to batmans ears and while Barbra is in the hospital wat happened to her eye brows
Did you do a review on Batman and Harley Quinn (2017), not that I would recommend the movie, as it was worse than The Killing Joke.
Consenting adults, doesn't mean every connection is a good connection. A married man sleeping with a woman who isn't his wife, though mutually decided to consent to the act, is still not a good connection. Bruce sleeping with Barbara is another example of a bad connection. Bruce Timm really didn't respect the characters. He's a good artist, but I do believe when he and Paul Dini were a writing team, Paul Dini was the better writer, and Dini has proven himself to be a strong stand-alone writer. Bruce Timm is not great as a stand-alone writer. And the reason we don't have a live action Batman Beyond movie is because Timm won't allow anyone else to handle his baby. Though it seems like Timm's handling of other people's works has resulted in shenanigans being added to the movie, which detracted from the original stories. Batman and Harley Quinn (2017) has to be the worst one I've seen so far... even disrespecting the Nightwing character. It's like Timm wants the animated movies to venture into B movie grade soft core porn. They need some new creators at these studios.
Hey kwing what channel will you upload batman telltale
Here
He's even got a picture from the Joker's first commercial in the first Keaton movie.
did any one see the reference from the dark Knight with the joker sitting in jail
Was there a hidden meaning behind Joker's joke..? I didnt understand it XD
that's heath's joker beside jason todd right?
I agree with you Luke I really thought the rooftop scene was awkward and it made me want to stop watching the movie. I think they could've put the R rating to good use and make the movie as dark as the book but instead they wasted it on the scene which was very weird and creepy to see Bruce and Babs together
Is this movie better if you just skip the first thirty minutes?
are we going to watch Bad Blood
I don't get how you think Batman was going towards the Joker in revenge for what happened to Barbara instead of his usual FOR JUSTICE stride, I never thought of it that way for a second.
The Batgirl story was far too disjointed from the Joker story, though. Disappointing.