Under the RADAR: The worst and the best RAF night fighter
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- Опубліковано 2 жов 2024
- Which was the worst and the best RAF night fighter of WW2? Martin Clegg, Visitor Experience Assistant at the RAF Museum Cosford, gives us his opinion on the Boulton Paul Defiant and the de Havilland Mosquito.
![The Defiant's Failed Successor | Boulton-Paul P.92 [Aircraft Overview #93]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Ru2MVpyr9ks/mqdefault.jpg)
May i say, that i absolutely findn the Defiant a beautifull aircraft?
My friend's grandfather flew Defiants from 1939 to 1943 and was (as far as we are aware) the longest serving Defiant pilot of WW2.
The Mosquito isn't just the best night fighter, it was probably the best aircraft the RAF have ever had. It could successfully do any task it was asked to do.
You could have mentioned the Beaufighter which was the first really effective night fighter of ww2.
Mosquito the best everything! Amazing versatility.
Captain Eric Brown said the Mosquito was one of his favorites, Hermann Göring liked it and also liked the Spitfire.
I think you're being very unfair. Bear in mind first that it was designed to meet an air ministry specification, one of several designs from various companies to be put forward to that spec, and was the best of them performance wise. Second, the idea behind the specification having been proved wrong (the hard way, costing quite a few lives), it was pressed into service as a night fighter at a time when Britain had no dedicated night fighter at all. It had the advantage that it could catch the enemy bombers during the early war period, which the alternative, the Bristol Blenheim, could not, and unlike desperate attempts to use single seat day fighters, there were two pairs of eyes looking out trying to spot the intruders in the pitch dark before the advent of airbourn radar. Inevitably not very successful, but better than nothing until it became practical to equip aircraft with radar. Thirdly, the aircraft put in further useful service after withdrawal from frontline deployment, as a target tug, a much under-appreciated and exceedingly beneficial function in fighter pilot training. You will find that not all viewers have the attention span of a gnat, and going into better detail will gain more likes.
Thanks for the information, mostly for the Defiant, which few people have heard of, let alone, know what it's role was during the war. I think you explained why---quite clearly. As for everyone's favourite, ( Spitfire aside,) the Mosquito ,in recent years, has taken center stage, on most peoples want to view , list. A truly wonderful and heroic creation.
The Boulton-Paul's turret was used extensively in the Rear Gunner position in bombers including the Lancaster.
My great uncle agreed with you! Flew both planes, loved the Mosquito 😊
Ironically, if the Boston Paul had been given forward firing guns as well it would have been a dangerous plane to tangle with.
The last place you’d expect to see Gerry Adams!
I would love to see some in-depth walkarounds from Cosford, similar to those done by the Tank Museum in Bovington. - The gold standard.
Keep it up , practice makes perfect, your delivery will improve with confidence Martin!
Interestingly, Defiant bears Polish markings (checkboard) - probably 307 squadron.
Not really the worst night fighter, The personnel figured out to use tactics for mutual protection.
Merci Monsieur de nous faire revivre et rappeler , tous ces pilotes (es ) et ces merveilleux avions Anglais de la RAF , a qui j'ai une profonde admiration total depuis ma tendre enfance ..je rêvais de piloter un SPITFIRE ..déja a 8 ans ..et j'en ai 64 , mais mon rêve continu toujours ...!!
Merci au ROYAL AIR FORCE , Musée de l'air de la RAF de nous faire partager tant et tant d'émotions , mon rêve c'est de visiter votre Musée , en Angleterre ..Peut-être un jour quand j aurais les moyens .!
Profonde Admiration et très grand respects a là RAF , d' hier et d' Aujourd'hui .
Bien cordialement
Hubert Etienne
would love to go there someday. thanks for the interpretation and beautifully restored planes!
The Defiant could fire its guns forward after the canopy was modified like the example you are standing in front of.
However aviation author John Taylor noted that during the Blitz on London of 1940-41, the four Defiant-equipped squadrons were responsible for shooting down more enemy aircraft than any other type in the theatre. And this before later more powerful Merlin XX engines were supplied. The Defiant was always underpowered despite its long development program. .
Mosquito were much in demand for more pressing aggressor duties while you might have 1,000 of the Defiant type awaiting on the ground for the role they were designed for in the mid 30's
The defiant could rotate the turret and fix the guns to fire forward. Not such a bad aircraft as it has been made out to be
The Mosquito. Fighter, Fighter/Bomber, Heavy Fighter, Night Fighter, Pathfinder, Reconnaissance plane. Is there anything this plane couldn't do.
de Havilland Mosquito is the best plane of the second world war let alone night fightera truly amazing bit of kit and the pilots loved it the germans hated it what more can you ask for
I have seen this Mossie at RAF Cosford air museum and touched it .And I felt great pride in her that we the british produced such a wonderful versatile fighter bomber out off wood that was the fastest prop plane during the war .i often wondered where the Mossies from the films Mosquito Squadron and 633 squadron ended up .
Was the Mosquito the fastest bomber of WWII? Among prop-driven planes of the period, the claim is probably true, though the Ju-288C was very close in terms of maximum speed - so close it would depend on the examples being compared, the altitude, the weather, etc. However, the fastest bomber of WWII must be Arado Ar-234B-2. A captured example was test flown at Wright Field AFB in 1946 resulting in a true measure airspeed of 461 mph.
"Visitor experience assistant"..?? Jesus... :-/
Met a bloke years ago who had been a coachbuilder before WW2. Like thousands of others with similar skills, he spent much of the war working in his small-town workshop building parts for Mosquito's (in his case mainly engine nacelle covers). Every fortnight a truck would turn up with a new load of plywood etc, and take away the parts he had made. Wonderful 'dispersed production' made possible by the Mossie being wooden, and which made Luftwaffe attacks on Sheffield/Coventry etc less effective/disruptive.
I'm no expert but am fairly sure the turret could rotated so the guns would face forward. Then the pilot had control of the armament ,like a standard type of fighter. In defence of the aircraft I believe it did make a brief contribution as a very ordinary night fighter!
Martin seems a bit nervous. But he shouldn't be because he's got a great speaking voice. You guys should do longer videos, maybe with a couple of people discussing the aircraft. Your audience thrives on lots of details.
This particular aircraft was used by 307 Polish Fighter Squadron stationed in Exeter.
If you want to know if your weapon system is any good ask those that had to fight it. Goring christening the Mosquito “a wooden wonder” is a good example or the Japanese referring to the Bristol Beaufighter as “whispering death” is another.
Interesting stuff. Didn’t realise there was a defiant in cosford, worth a visit just for that.
Fastest bomber apart from the Arado of course.
That Boulton Paul Defiant would be pretty good if you could fly it backwards.
UA-cam : wanna know what's the worst night digger is the RAF?
Me: Aight :D
Thanks Martin, I really enjoyed this. The channel should get a lot more traffic than this! Good luck and on to the next one!
Cosford is a truly fantastic museum. i think everyone should visit if they can.
maybe if the pilot went to full-throttle, pulled up steeply, and at the apex of the loop he could fire forward out the rear... i mean the side...i guess, i mean i hope so..... ah!!!..but the Mossie was the best at everything it did...period.
I didn't know that the He-111 bomber could fly faster than the Defiant's 317 MPH maximum level flight speed??!! All the literature gives the He-11 a top speed of no more than 270 MPH (unlaiden) on a good day.
The Defiant could fire forwards with the turret guns locked forwards at an upwards angle. When in this mode, the turret guns could be fired by the pilot.
The failure of the Defiant saw the abandonment of the Hawker Hotspur turret fighter project. The Hotspur prototype had 8 wing machineguns, as well as a turret, but was slower and heavier.
Tricky comparison, because one plane has twice the propeller power. So the argument becomes: if you put a quad gun turret on a mosquito, what could it do? *Given that some night fighters came under the bombers.
It seems that the Mosquito has many fans. To me that are elegant, fast and lethal. Just a beautiful aircraft.
That Defiant wears the markings of my dad's squadron (Polish 307), although the Defiant was before his time there. He started with Beaufighters and finished with the Mosquito.
The Defiant was a product of its time. It was built on the predication that 'the bomber will always get through (TBWAGT)', which was the RAF's philosophy at the time. Once you assess the reasoning, the Defiant no longer resembles the lame duck you write it off as here. The idea underpinning TBWAGT was that any enemy aircraft - assumed to be coming from a hostile country such as Germany - would be flying so far from its country of origin that it would be well outside the operational range of any escorting fighters. Thus, they would arrive over Britain unescorted and vulnerable to attack. That was the point of the Defiant: it was meant to loiter in wait, then get in among the bomber stream and attack it from outside the bombers' defensive arcs of fire. What ultimately nobbled the Defiant was the Blitzkrieg. When France fell it put Britain within range of German fighter units and suddenly Britain was faced with the prospect of bombers escorted by those fighters. As a dedicated bomber-destroyer the Defiant was never designed to tangle with fighters. Its failure was down to faulty expectations, not Boulton Paul's engineering. For its time the Defiant wasn't much slower than the Hurricane and I think you're dismissing it unfairly.
As for its 'failure' as a night fighter, I refer you back to its design specification - a dedicated bomber destroyer. Back when the Defiant was proposed night bombing was not a thing. Nobody even considered it practical as a concept. Just like TBWAGT, night bombing was considered impractical because accurate bombing would be impossible. It could be argued the Defiant was a product of a more civilised time in which area bombing of civilian targets was unthinkable. Because of that, there hadn't really been any thought at all given to the concept of night-fighting. The Blitz was a direct consequence of the RAF not rolling over and surrendering the way Goering was expecting it to and, as a result, the RAF was wrong-footed. Having proved a failure in day-fighting (due to the aformentioned unexpected fighter escorts) the Defiant was shunted into the night-fighting role as a stopgap. There were no dedicated RAF night-fighters AT ALL in 1940, so to dismiss the Defiant as a failure in this capacity is unfair to the crews who flew them. Comparing the Defiant night-fighter to the Mosquito night-fighter is apples to oranges. By the time the Mosquito night-fighter was unveiled all the lessons had been learned and the RAF had, in the Mozzie, a superlative weapons platform. Know where the RAF learned all the lessons it applied to the art of night-fighting? The Defiants.
In summary, the Defiant was a product of outdated thinking from people who couldn't have predicted the fall of France. When it was allowed to do its job as it was meant to, it was a good aircraft. For instance, the Dornier 17 that RAF Museum Cosford is in the process of restoring was shot down by 264 Squadron's Defiants. So give it a little pat and apologise to it, please?
What's most surprising is that the Defiant managed to shoot down anything more capable than a barrage balloon at all.
Thank you very much for this informative video, forgive me in advance, I sense a slight spurring on within the Heritage system inspired by The Tank Museum's content, partially assisted by Wargaming.net's World of Tanks & its community.
I hope to visit Cosford at somepoint in the future, as I live just down the road in Brum.
The Boulton Paul Defiant was developed as a bomber destroyer, but was misused as a fighter. Once it was in its role it had the a significant number of kills but was underpowered and lacked airborne radar which was only fitted Sept 41 in Defiant II.
Still it was better to have a night fighter than no night fighter at all.
"As a counterpoint, aviation author John Taylor noted that during the Blitz on London of 1940-41, the four Defiant-equipped squadrons were responsible for shooting down more enemy aircraft than any other type in the theatre"
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boulton_Paul_Defiant
Great video I see your following a similar format as the Tank chats from Bovington. Great
Rather harsh on the Defiant, it was intended to attack bombers, not other fighters, and it had hardening in the wings for forward firing guns, but the Air Ministry didn't bother to order the manufacturer to fit them. Comparing the Mosquito with the Defiant is comparing two different eras, the Defiant was there when the war started, having been developed around the time of the Hurricane and Spitfire, the Mosquito was still trees. Also, the Defiant was there at the start or airborne radar, and it could only hunt at night with primitive equipment.
Yep, Goring was envious. Non critical material, offensive fighter/bomber, not designed by a committee. Better then anything in the air. Yep.
The Boulton Paul Defiant was terrible! Send that air marshell up in one of those for a few days then he'd know!
Wish Cosford would paint that Mossie the right colours. Should have a green and grey upper body.
Cos otherwise, she's gorgeous.
The pilot flew within 50ft of the towed target so dad could riddle it and get his air gunners certificate. He wore specs all his life!
the Boulton really was the worst night fighter with it's ridiculous 4-gun aft defense.
Some interesting facts about the boulton Paul defiant that I never new before. Keep up the good work guys!
Sure I saw at Coventry air museum that a defiant shot down a German bomber near Coventry ?
Bit harsh, Martin. My parents told me that 1941 was our darkest hour. In that year it seems Defiants shot down more German night bombers than any other British fighter. Don't forget that was pre onboard radar
Very interesting video!
My father John Patrick, RAF armorer 1939 to 1943, claims the guns on the Defiant could be rotated to fire forward
Amazing museum! Definatly 10 out of 10 if your interested in aircraft
Sad to say this guy's got NO stage presence. He looks like he'd rather be anywhere but in front of a camera.
Hindsight is the only exact science. The Defiant was built on the principle of the two seat fighter (eg Bristol F2B) with the workload shared between two crewmen. The F2B was very successful so one can see why the Defiant had such hopes. The problem was the performance. Could be that she was ahead of her time? Given a more powerful engine, things might have been different.
It would be terrible to be allocated to the worst fighter and know that your chances of making it home every night over several months are not very good
I guess no one sets out to design a bad aircraft. The Mosquito such a beautiful aircraft that proved itself in so many operational roles.
Yet from another perspective ua-cam.com/video/kUWq4ymz8Yw/v-deo.html
It could fire forward, a HE 111 couldn't top 300mph and with a full bomb load would struggle to do 200mph and the single seat Hurricanes used for nightfighting were worse, same engine, same problems, only 1 pair of eyes.
That's a fine museum- I've been there. Gotta love the Mossie! Thanks for posting!
The Boulton Paul Defiant aircraft had more surprises than what has been said here .
The defiant was a waste of resources, and name.
The mosquito is and was an amazing platform.
Strap it on, plug it in, or load it up ..the mosquito did the job and more..... beautifully.
Defiant was the best at the time, mosquito is supreme
Bolton-Paul defiant would’ve been effective against bombers that were unescorted.
Despite the facial hair, this guy is no David Fletcher
The Boulton Paul Defiant must have been a bit faster than the Blenheim.
The Defiant caught a few people out because they mistook it for the Hurricane, it was not a great plane but it had a use, but no where near a mossie.
Night Fighter by C.F. Rawnsley & Robert Wright is recommended reading. Cecil Frederick "Jimmy" Rawnsley was a radar operator credited with 17 kills.
If I ever get to England, Cosford is at the top of my to-do list.
I think that the two planes mentioned are indeed the worst and the best night fighters in RAF service. The Boulton Paul Defiant was an abysmal idea, particularly not having ANY forward facing armaments. Perhaps if they had fitted four Browning .303s into the wings, it might have had more success, but I doubt it. As for the Mosquito, it and the Beaufighter would have to rank as two of the most adaptable gun platforms the RAF had at its disposal.
Lindeman was so wrong about so many things.
Cool video.
Bolton-Paul Defiant: relegated to night-fighting because it couldn't survive in daylight. De Havilland Mosquito: becomes night fighter because being the best all-rounder of the war is getting boring: "How about we try fighting blindfolded & giving the Jerries a chance?" X-D
Best night fighter of any air force, not just the RAF.
They were not defensive weapons. M.
A lot of brave crews lost their lives in the defiant.
Defiant Powerplant: 1 × Rolls-Royce Merlin III liquid-cooled V12 engine, 1,030 hp (770 kW)
Hi I just have a question please Our boys the R.A.A.F flew the Mossies and have nothing but high regards, but I was wondering we also flew the Bristol Beaufighter. You don't hear about the Bristol Beaufighter as much. But we hold that plane in very high regard. I was wondering how good was the Bristol Beaufighter compared to the De Havilland Mosquito please?
Think it’s very unfair to say that the Defiant was the worst night fighter during WWII, those guns look pretty mean to me. But I do see how the Mosquito helped win the war with its lightweight design and low flying capabilities.
I thought the Battle dive bomber was one of the worst aircraft used by the RAF in WW2
Nice video, but you forgot about the Bristol Beaufighter. I know your video was about the WORST and the BEST nightfighter, but there should have been at least SOME mention of The Beaufighter.
I think it's fair to say that for a 'Black Defiant' to be successful there had to be an unusually good rapport and symbiosis between the gunner and the pilot. Did happen but not too often. I often wonder what it could have done if it was beefed up and given an early production Griffon. (Although even if the structure was strong enough it could have turned itself upside down in takeoff/climb unless the fin and rudder were enlarged!)
NICE VIDEO
The Defiant really is horrible! Thanks Martin for contrasting these two night fighters. I do loves me a trip to Cosford!
What would you know?
Nice quick video and I appreciate that the speaker said in his opinion not laying this out as if it were a provable fact.I would probably have issue with saying the defiant was the absolute worst as the bottom end of that spectrum is fairly broad with multiple poor aircraft to choose from. mosquito may well have been the best night fighter that is debatable of course , it is most definitely in the top tier
So, if I come and visit your museum do I get the same greenscreen experience? Do you have any actual planes?...
I wish the BBC had presenters like Martin Clegg. No messing around, just doing his job.
Well, better to have the turret fire forward and destroy the propeller - Yes, that would be much better.
Thank you for your detailed analysis.
Best night fighter and best aircraft of WW2.
Lindermann has no say in the development of the Defiant what so ever. He was not in Government when the aircraft specification was raised or when it was in development.
Bristol blenheim with a single 303, nor radar, was slower than most german bombers.
Pos night fighter.
Huh, I was under the impression that the turret on the Defiant could rotate around to cover the front.
So if the Mosquito, with an airframe made largely of wood was such a fast, successful aeroplane, why were other fast aeroplanes made of metal ?
One would have thought that the Germans, with no shortage of forests, would have eagerly adopted wooden airframes. Was it that the Germans had only the wrong type of wood ?
Yes I agree with you
I like Martin, i really do, but when that defiant opened fire up into the bombbay of an enemy bomber all hell broke loose, whereas the mossie he is pointing at is a precision night strike bomber, coke martin, ice n slice old chap.