You (Probably) Won't Retire Early

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  • Опубліковано 29 вер 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 309

  • @alexanderlyon
    @alexanderlyon 9 місяців тому +14

    I've heard from numerous friends lately (aged 45 to 60) who tell me some version of, "I'll be working until I die." It bums me out, but they all tell me the same reasons. They didn't start investing early enough, they didn't put in enough to get the full 401k match, or they pulled money out of their 401k for big purchases/expenses. And they'll all likely admit that they are living a bit beyond their means in terms of spending money on fancier stuff, vacations, or bigger homes than necessary.

  • @BoxOfRain
    @BoxOfRain 9 місяців тому +5

    A great video as always. I've worried that the FIRE types will prioritize the accumulation of money for the dream of an early retirement over living their lives when they are in their 20s and 30s. Once those years are gone, you will never get them back regardless of how much money you have accumulated.

    • @ErinTalksMoney
      @ErinTalksMoney  9 місяців тому +3

      I was certainly guilty of working too much in my 20s 😬

    • @brandon8531
      @brandon8531 9 місяців тому +1

      Same here!

    • @MrPizzaman09
      @MrPizzaman09 9 місяців тому

      Yeah, I'm 32 and I had my sights on ~43-45 years old as my retirement date, but then I decided to spend a bunch of money on a house. I'm wondering about getting an easier job at some point that I get lots of enjoyment out of. Now I'm thinking retirement will be later on, but who knows what curve balls life with throw at me.

  • @1962joeshmoe
    @1962joeshmoe 9 місяців тому

    When my oldest son told my wife that he thought he would never own a house, I knew that I would not retire early and probably not before 70 because I won't leave $1.5 million in additional salary as well as additional pension, social security, 457B, and IRA money on the table when my kids need their educations paid for and down payments on their homes before I pass.

  • @gregr.6496
    @gregr.6496 9 місяців тому +3

    Probably not, but might as well take a run at it and if I do work until 60 or 65 I'll have more money than I know what to do with.

  • @TPayne-fm8ie
    @TPayne-fm8ie 9 місяців тому +20

    My mom is 93 and still working by choice as a bookkeeper. She also does volunteer bookkeeping for charity. Retirement isn't for everyone. A sense of purpose is so important for our emotional well being.

    • @mysticaltyger2009
      @mysticaltyger2009 8 місяців тому +3

      Agreed on a sense of purpose. But that sense of purpose doesn't have to come from paid employment. I don't know why so many people seem to assume a job is the only way to get a sense of purpose in life.

    • @toddbenfield6546
      @toddbenfield6546 4 місяці тому

      If your happy with your work as a sense of purpose, being paid is icing on the cake👌

  • @bmurphy847
    @bmurphy847 9 місяців тому +15

    I would estimate that many people that set their goal to retire early may actually mean something different from a total retirement from working a job. I think that they plan on becoming financially independent from a corporate job, but they may plan on working a new career, that earns them some income. Or they may spend some time each week on their investments and spending time doing "work" that they find satisfying and brings in some income.

  • @ChrisShawUK
    @ChrisShawUK 9 місяців тому +9

    I'm 55 and stopped work 4 years ago. We don't have to worry about health insurance here in the UK.
    I spend my time on 5-6 nature recovery projects in the region where i live, and i have three community projects in my town.
    Being able to allocate time exactly how i wish is the most important thing.

  • @DionTalkFinancialFreedom
    @DionTalkFinancialFreedom 9 місяців тому +23

    For me, the hardest part of retiring early was learning how to spend.
    The focus and strategies that allowed me to retire early became habits that were hard to break.

    • @beerbrewer7372
      @beerbrewer7372 9 місяців тому +2

      If you got to have a habit that's a good one to have!

    • @AusValue
      @AusValue 9 місяців тому +3

      I just retired at 29 and im having the same problem. Ive just started exercising more to fill time, and studying investments

    • @summitsusie
      @summitsusie 7 місяців тому

      Getting ready to retire and the shift from saver to "spender" is difficult to wrap my head around.

    • @beerbrewer7372
      @beerbrewer7372 7 місяців тому

      @@AusValue 29? I'm impressed!

    • @beerbrewer7372
      @beerbrewer7372 7 місяців тому

      @@summitsusie I agree 101% !

  • @Peace-ju9us
    @Peace-ju9us 9 місяців тому +17

    Planning is important, I planned to retire from the military even when I was 8 years old, did so and TRICARE takes care of my healthcare, I have my state pension, and SS, and savings...planning counts. I own what I have, I owe no one, anything. And, I pass my time watching ERIN TALKS MONEY .

    • @ErinTalksMoney
      @ErinTalksMoney  9 місяців тому +5

      Thank you 🙏 for your service!!! My husband has 6 years left - and we are very much looking forward to tricare for life

    • @Ethan-bu2zy
      @Ethan-bu2zy 9 місяців тому +1

      @@ErinTalksMoneymilitary retirement is great! Tricare for life rocks too. I’m 54 and definitely could retire right now but trying to do a few more years to qualify for an additional pension. Hang in there! You and your husband will be glad that you did!

  • @garyfarley323
    @garyfarley323 9 місяців тому +8

    Retirement isn't an age, it's an amount of money...I needed this...

  • @ignitionSoldier
    @ignitionSoldier 9 місяців тому +8

    It's rough out there. I think people need to be realistic when it comes to retirement. This video is breath of fresh air for sure.

  • @andrewdiamond2697
    @andrewdiamond2697 9 місяців тому +15

    Yeah. Not retiring early. Plan A was to retire at age 58. Around age 52 I figured that wasn't going to happen, and went to plan B, age 62. Around age 55, Covid hit, and I figured that wasn't going to happen so I went to modified plan B, where I'd work full-time to age 62, and then half-time from 62-67. Now I'm 58 and it's clear that I'm going to work full-time to 66 or 67.
    This makes sense as I can get Medicare at 65 and my Social Security benefit will be much better at age 67+. The extra years also allow me to save maybe another $200k instead of spending $300k, so the net positive is a half-million, or more, with a 4 year delay. That's huge.

    • @FIRED13
      @FIRED13 9 місяців тому +4

      Unsure of your finances, but every year you work, I think job-related stress (includes stress placed on personal life/from the job) reduces the amount of healthy retirement years ahead. It's a personal call when you call it quits from work, but be careful of the "just one more year" trap.

    • @andrewdiamond2697
      @andrewdiamond2697 9 місяців тому +1

      @@FIRED13 Absolutely. One year later means one less year of quality retired time. Like many, I have goals ahead of retirement....everything paid off and enough money to confidently have at least $8k and preferably $10k a month for living expenses.
      Currently, I have no debt but the remainder of my mortgage, and I have seven figures in an IRA...and...it's not yet enough to hang it up. I'd retire today if I had about $3.0 - $3.5 million. Each additional year I work, the number needed goes down while the amount saved goes up. I expect the retirement savings will intersect with the "retirement number" in 2030 - 2032.

  • @briank4134
    @briank4134 9 місяців тому +10

    I'm 56. For me, the entire idea of retirement isn't "I quit working." It's more like "I might work if I want to, but I don't have to." If I make it to retirement, then start working again, I want it to be by choice, not by necessity.

    • @ErinTalksMoney
      @ErinTalksMoney  9 місяців тому

      That’s a great mindset!

    • @stephenwright133
      @stephenwright133 9 місяців тому

      This exactly! I’m 56 as well and will be pulling the trigger on retirement mid year next year. I see it as a change in my work, not to stop doing anything at all. I have a lot of plans.

  • @mashort07
    @mashort07 9 місяців тому +7

    Before even watching the video: OH YES I WILL 😂

    • @ErinTalksMoney
      @ErinTalksMoney  9 місяців тому

      😂😂😂

    • @mysticaltyger2009
      @mysticaltyger2009 9 місяців тому +2

      That's the attitude you'll need to have, but you'll also need a plan and to take action to back it up!

  • @northtexan95
    @northtexan95 9 місяців тому +13

    No one will say "I retried with too much money", but some do say "I wish I had retired earlier when my health was better or my loved ones were still alive".
    My goal is to have three options when I hit 60: retire, keep working/investing, or work enough to just pay the bills with lower stress. Then I can take it on a year by year basis. If my job gets crappy? I quit. If I still love my job or if the economy is bad? I can keep working. I just want options to do what's best for me and my family.

  • @vinyl1Earthlink
    @vinyl1Earthlink 9 місяців тому +6

    I did retire at age 61. Fortunately, I had the money to do it, way above what Fidelity recommends. I got health insurance from my former employer - 18 months of COBRA at the same price I was paying when working, plus two years of subsidized insurance at $750 a month.
    If you are retiring early, you should have a wide margin - I would recommend financial assets at least 20-25 times your final salary. This would allow you to live on the dividends and interest from your assets, and not have to sell stock.

  • @jaynelson8304
    @jaynelson8304 9 місяців тому +11

    We had to buy health insurance for my wife for one year. At 64 the premium has risen to $756/month and that has a maximum out of pocket of $9,100. That doesn't include eye care or dental. That one year of ACA cost us over $20,000. For a couple retiring early I would budget $25,000/year and pray for health!

  • @PH-md8xp
    @PH-md8xp 9 місяців тому +15

    I was forced to retire at 56 just as the pandemic shut everything down. Financially my family and I were ready with about 3.2 million in savings but were concerned about healthcare costs as I have a family of 4. Thanks to the ACA, I was able to find a subsidized bronze level plan for the 4 of us for just $398 per month that allowed us to see all the same doctors we were already seeing. Deductibles and copays are higher than the group plan I used to have from my employer, but we’re mostly healthy and so thankfully healthcare costs haven’t been a problem. The bigger challenge for me was not having something to retire to. Once you’ve done all the projects you can do on the house, then what? I go to the gym to stay in shape 3 times a week, but still I have lots of spare time. Not complaining, but I’m still looking for something fulfilling that doesn’t bring all the stresses of the daily grind. It’s an adjustment and not an easy one, much better if you have an idea of what you’re going to retire to if at all possible.

    • @Savvynomad225
      @Savvynomad225 9 місяців тому +3

      I think retirement should be a transition into still doing things but without the need for money. More just the need to find fulfillment. I know a business man who retired and one of his hobbies was woodwork, so he retired into making custom woodwork part time and selling it online with the help of his wife. Although there was a lot of demand for his work, he limited it because it wasn’t for the cash.

    • @tancreddehauteville764
      @tancreddehauteville764 9 місяців тому +2

      3.2M?? Jeez, you're freaking rich!! What are you worried about?

    • @Savvynomad225
      @Savvynomad225 9 місяців тому

      @@tancreddehauteville764 government theft I’m sure

    • @LearnAsYouGo.
      @LearnAsYouGo. 8 місяців тому

      Maybe start your own UA-cam channel talking about what it’s like to be retired, the road you took to retirement, how you mapped out having 3.2 million, etc.. This is a topic that many people both young & old are interested in & who better to learn from than someone who has successfully navigated through it.

    • @mysticaltyger2009
      @mysticaltyger2009 8 місяців тому

      @@tancreddehauteville764 It's easy to worry about money no matter how much you have. The truth of the matter is no one is invincible, And those concerns get magnified if you still have minor children at home and want to pay or some or all of their college education, etc.

  • @SoonerMike211
    @SoonerMike211 9 місяців тому +7

    I'm just now starting my third month of an early retirement at 41, and I am loving it. I acknowledge that I might eventually get bored and seek some work, but right now I'm surprised at how fast the day goes by that I don't have time to get bored. I'm busy being a house spouse, taking care of chores and errands so that when my wife and kid are home we get to focus on each other. I've barely had time to scratch any of my existing hobbies, let alone any of the hobbies I had hoped to pick up. I'm an introvert at heart, so I like not having to head to the office. Also, I'm involved with my church, which has more volunteer opportunities than I could handle even if I wanted to volunteer full time.

  • @mysticaltyger2009
    @mysticaltyger2009 9 місяців тому +5

    This won't work for everyone, but lots of people go to Mexico or other countries and pay out of pocket for health care because it is affordable. And, of course, avoiding the crappy American diet of processed junk food really helps as well.

  • @rhondavigil795
    @rhondavigil795 9 місяців тому +8

    We retired at 52 and 55. We always planned to retire early, 55 and 58. A situation at my employer gave us a not so gentle push to retire sooner. No regrets.
    We feel bad for those who continually say "one more year. I'll work one more year."
    Today, there are so many revenue opportunities and investment opportunities.
    I hope you are reaching young people with your message.

  • @EvenOlderThanBrian
    @EvenOlderThanBrian 9 місяців тому +40

    I retired from a corporate job two years ago (just before my 58th birthday). Finances are fine. My biggest adjustment was going from being with people (meetings, “hallway” conversations, lunches, etc) for 8 to 10 hours everyday to very little interaction on a daily basis. I compensated by picking up a once a week volunteer job as well as occasional lunches with my co-workers who are still working. No regrets on retirement, but it is a big change.

    • @PH-md8xp
      @PH-md8xp 9 місяців тому +2

      Totally agree. I was forced into retirement at 56 a couple years ago. It is a major adjustment initially and until you find ways to fill your days. I focus on getting in shape by going to the gym regularly and occasionally meet old colleagues for lunch, but it’s not enough. I’m still looking for something productive and satisfying to do without the stress.

    • @FIRED13
      @FIRED13 9 місяців тому +4

      I was given the gift of ER and not having to face the inevitable retirement (early) party at my original planned date a few years back due to being replaced by three less expensive, less quality workers. Never looked back. Thank GOD we saved/invested early and often - this made FI possible before 50.

    • @wildfoodietours
      @wildfoodietours 9 місяців тому

      Yeah I always get worried at the thought of having to fill an extra 40 hours EVERY week in early retirement! Though I work full time now, I still have more than enough time for the gym, to travel, and to pursue my hobbies. @@PH-md8xp

    • @dquan731
      @dquan731 9 місяців тому

      That is the biggest adjustment. All your friends are busy working. It’s also harder to relate to them financially.
      I hear lots of stories of Financial Independence podcasters ending up getting divorced once they hit their numbers. It’s as if having too much free time gives you too much time to realize how incompatible you really are. 😅

    • @danielgant2214
      @danielgant2214 8 місяців тому

      I was in a very good financial place, was 61 and sick of the enormous stress in my job, so I retired. I do miss the people I worked with, and the fun of work “wins”, but I have to say, I’ve done well filling my days, and making friends that are also retired, so I’m glad, even though there are down sides.

  • @JohnPMiller
    @JohnPMiller 9 місяців тому +5

    Charlie Munger seemed pretty happy without ever retiring. It's not always about the money. I think the goals should be to get to a point where you don't ever have to worry about money, and to be able to do what you enjoy. Health is a big part of that.

    • @ErinTalksMoney
      @ErinTalksMoney  9 місяців тому +1

      RIP to the great, absolutely legendary Charlie Munger (fun fact I wanted to name our kiddo Charlie….that was actually what my name was going to be if it hadn’t been Erin and I LOVED Charlie Munger) my husband vetoed that name though

  • @alk672
    @alk672 9 місяців тому +10

    Someone said that work is a very socially acceptable way to not think about who you want to be when you grow up. The abyss you stare into when you don't have to work anymore and you're still young is the scariest part of retiring early. You do have to figure it out, however, and maybe it's better if you're forcing yourself to do it earlier rather than later.

    • @robloxvids2233
      @robloxvids2233 9 місяців тому +3

      I took an 8 year break from working and there is an emptiness that came with it. I never realized how vital it was to feel a purpose and part of a team. Belonging somewhere. I was a dad and husband but there was a HUGE "I don't work" hole in my soul. I plan to RE from my career but keep doing SOMEthing.

    • @webcompanion
      @webcompanion 9 місяців тому

      @@robloxvids2233 I think that is great insight and I feel the same. The FI part of the FIRE means you can choose what your something is, and not be in the corporate world if you don't like it. I have a side 3d print business that only takes me 1-2 hours a week of work and doesn't make much. I am thinking about part time work somewhere fun like a brewery to get some hours and chat with customers and coworkers a few more hours each week. What I don't want is corp salary 8-5 job that actually has you on call around the clock due to global teams and never ending urgent deadlines.

    • @FIRED13
      @FIRED13 9 місяців тому

      @@robloxvids2233 replace the "hole" by filling it in with a lifetime of discovery the world around you! Learn a new skill, teach a topic, care for someone, travel to a national park not on your bucket list, etc

  • @jdgolf499
    @jdgolf499 9 місяців тому +4

    Great video, however, there is one thing I'll push back on. I DO know people who said they saved too much for retirement! They are the ones that didn't live life while working, because everything went towards retirement savings. Not necessarily their fault, as they heard all the people saying how much you need to have to retire, when generally, you can easily make it on far less! I personally intend to leave something to the kids, so if there's some left at the end, great! However, I did not save to the point where I couldn't enjoy life during my working years, and I'm still sitting very well!

  • @commonsense5555
    @commonsense5555 9 місяців тому +3

    Me and my wife save a large portion of our income and we expect to retire at about 35 or 40 at the latest. We’ll probably work part time after that by choice but we don’t want to spend most of our days at work and we want to be able to be both present with our kids.

  • @cindyfow5851
    @cindyfow5851 9 місяців тому +6

    I want to retire from my corporate job at 62. I plan to pursue something part time or less stressful then.

  • @vulpixelful
    @vulpixelful 9 місяців тому +22

    Thank you for calling out continued home maintenance. So many families lose paid-off multi-generational homes because no one could afford the upkeep, including the retirees 😞

    • @1962joeshmoe
      @1962joeshmoe 9 місяців тому

      My approach is a trust that covers taxes and utilities while continuing to grow.

  • @DaveM-FFB
    @DaveM-FFB 9 місяців тому +8

    I don't want to crush dreams, BUT despite your best plans, most people won't retire early. The system is designed to keep you in the workforce until 65 or 67. I was probably better equipped for an early retirement than most. I planned to retire at 59 1/2 because that's the earliest age that you can take money from your 401K without any sort of penalty or restriction. However, I didn't realize that medical insurance would be horribly expensive (even more expensive in the several years prior to age 65). I also didn't realize (back then) that taking Social Security at 62 would result in a permanent reduction of about 30% of my benefits. There were other things I didn't know when I made my plans for an early retirement, so 59 1/2 didn't happen. Fortunately though, I did retire at 65. Medicare at 65 is great health insurance at a budget friendly price. I accepted a 9% permanent reduction to my Social Security benefit to begin taking it 18 months early (a good compromise), since the COLA for 2023 was 8.7%. My advice is #1 Make detailed plans, then #2 Make backup plans.

  • @tonyflaminio2719
    @tonyflaminio2719 9 місяців тому +7

    Even if you retire, YOUR EXPENSES NEVER DO, one of the best lines I’ve ever heard!
    Thanks for the tough and true retirement talk.
    Five Year rule, interesting concept, most of us move the goalposts back a few years as we close in on our date.
    Yes I’m planning to retire before 65, and health care is expensive!
    Thanks Erin!

    • @autobotdiva9268
      @autobotdiva9268 9 місяців тому +1

      Just get the ACA, youll get a subsidy and be fine. trust

  • @GSR978
    @GSR978 9 місяців тому +3

    I'm aiming to retire when I'm 54, 57 at the oldest.
    I invest 50% of my gross annual salary- about 30% into bridge accounts and 20% into age restricted accounts (pension and Roth IRA).
    I can collect my pension immediately if I stay with my employer until 57. I have to wait until 60 if I leave before then.
    I plan to move from South Florida to Tennessee when I retire.
    🤞🏻🤞🏻

  • @wildfoodietours
    @wildfoodietours 9 місяців тому +4

    I always loved the idea of early retirement for complete freedom. I feel like I'm on the path to retire early, but I am flexible. The financial independence aspect of FIRE is what I really want.

  • @rickchandler2570
    @rickchandler2570 9 місяців тому +4

    You seem like you’re trying to discourage people from retiring early. I get what you’re saying but it comes off as negative about retiring early. I retired this year at 54 and love it. It works perfectly for me but I can see how everyone isn’t the same and it just isn’t for everyone. Some people I’ve talked to about my retirement said they had no plans to retire even if they had reached FI. Good for you I guess, I just don’t want to (waste) spend my life working for someone else and I’m not smart enough to create my own business.
    We rent our condo and live overseas so healthcare and home maintenance isn’t a problem. I have no plans on buying a house again. I want to have the freedom of pulling up our tent stakes and going somewhere else if we want. To me the true definition of freedom.

    • @ErinTalksMoney
      @ErinTalksMoney  9 місяців тому +1

      I’m certainly not trying to do that! (I actually have loads of videos on the subject of early retirement) when I started my journey my goal was to retire at 40….my goals have definitely changed - now I say 55.
      I just want to present both sides. 😊 early retirement can be great….but it’s not a realistic option if you don’t prepare

    • @rickchandler2570
      @rickchandler2570 9 місяців тому

      @@ErinTalksMoney Is that change in your plan financially motivated or other reasons? I’m guessing the new baby is changing it but not sure. We don’t have children so not always sure how kids tend to change one’s plans.

    • @ErinTalksMoney
      @ErinTalksMoney  9 місяців тому +1

      Well I did a mini retirement at 30 ….absolutely hated it, all my friends (and husband were still working….i lasted like 6 months). Being that 40 is only about 3.5 years away….it still feels too young.
      Went back to working but startled my own business and I very much enjoy it. So I don’t want to retire from that anytime soon.
      But I still want an early reinvestment- my parents are in their 70s and not in the greatest of health. So I want the ability to retire when I’m younger and healthier.

  • @eugenedvorkin217
    @eugenedvorkin217 8 місяців тому +2

    In the late 50s and early 60s, we have a finite number of weeks to be healthy and active. That is the biggest motivator for me to take the plunge spend time with my wife and enjoy life. Motivation at work is not the same as in my 30s or 40s.

  • @martinrbookermb
    @martinrbookermb 9 місяців тому +2

    Leaving the corporate plantation is one thing but not working at all is another? Who wants to sit around for decades looking for time to kill? There's only so many latte's you can drink and walks around the patrk you can do on a given day?
    Seems like people in their 20's are already looking at retirement before they've even started to do any work?.
    Hard work builds character, im not saying be a slave, and i strongly advocate financial independence. But Young adults claiming to be burned out in their 20's? Is a worry for society in general.

    • @ErinTalksMoney
      @ErinTalksMoney  9 місяців тому +2

      I hear that….i like the idea of grinding hard when you are young so you can take it a bit easier when you get older

  • @martyi398
    @martyi398 9 місяців тому +3

    Thanks Erin excellent coverage of a difficult topic,
    Instead of focusing so much on early retirement maybe folks should look at changing careers/job fields that could fulfill them and make them happy, I left a management position 10 years ago I was done frustrated and stressed out and ready to retire, although I decided to pursue a job field that is less stressful and more rewarding, I work for a company now that values my contribution daily, great boss and co-workers, pay & benefits are good with plenty of PTO, and I still have plenty of time for hobbies, vacations and spending time with my family.

  • @ediefrasier2932
    @ediefrasier2932 9 місяців тому +5

    I retired at 55 and have loved it!

  • @tyrehester5550
    @tyrehester5550 9 місяців тому +3

    I wanted to retire early, but financially it did not make sense.
    I also am having a problem with my now 52 week vacation. With so much time, I tend to procrastinate more.

  • @taz78taz40
    @taz78taz40 9 місяців тому +4

    My goal is to retire between 55 and 58 and a half. Just depends on market returns. I save 40 percent of my gross income in Roth accounts to help me get there.

  • @jpdriver1967
    @jpdriver1967 9 місяців тому +5

    Retiring from a high salary job in the very near future. I am too young to not work based upon a lot of what you just covered in this video. I have decided to continue working and am looking to get a position doing something with passion for purpose regardless of pay. If the position covers my living expenses and medical care at this point, this is all I need as the long-term planning paid off and my retirement will be fully funded...when I decide to completely leave the workforce. Great content as always!

  • @ron9665
    @ron9665 9 місяців тому +2

    5:45 I know it's good to plan for the what-if, but according to the CDC, most of us will not see much need beyond a 20 year retirement. With Females having an life expectancy of 80.1 years and men at just 74.9 years of age, the trend to plan to 95 or 100 seems a little overkill, especially for those with SS and an pension income. Of the sub-groups, Asian Females had the best outlook at just under 23 additional years which still projects to only 88 years old.

    • @goldstandardaviation1667
      @goldstandardaviation1667 6 місяців тому

      Those numbers are from birth. Add approximately 10 years to that if you are above 60 yo.

  • @gregkloe
    @gregkloe 9 місяців тому +3

    I'm past the age for early retirement but I'd like to work a few years more but my company forced me out and I'm concerned that a new company won't pick me up due to my age. So I have to shift gears and generate my own income and make do on that for a bit longer. Next year I'll get on Medicare, pay off my mortgage and can then start supplementing with portfolio money until 70 at which time I'll start SS. That's a perfect world but I have put some planning into it. It was the job loss blindside that threw a wrench in the works.

  • @robnelson6545
    @robnelson6545 9 місяців тому +5

    51 and I’m an engineer. Work expectations became too high. Thought this would happen but not until my mid 50s but am prepared financially. I could get a chance to work on some of my own ideas. However I’m not sure if being disconnected from a job I will be able to stay motivated and be creative if I don’t have the people and organization to work for anymore. The expectations are not just in my head as the work has changed over the years and it’s more political and more factory like. I have a lot of knowledge but hustle mentality is a big thing that is hard to compete with if work says I’m spending too much time on details. If I get let go in a few months I’ll have to make a decision if I want to get another job and roll the dice again or try to create something on my own. That and the pace of work over the years left me in a deficit socially that I could work on.

    • @nathanrice7352
      @nathanrice7352 9 місяців тому +1

      I'm an earlier career engineer, and the expectations of engineers have definitely changed. The goal is never, "Make is as good and efficient as possible." It's "Do as much as possible, even if your failure rate is a little higher."
      It's like the saying, "A bad driver never misses their exit. A great driver sometimes misses their exit." "A bad engineer never makes a mistake. A great engineer sometimes makes a mistake."

    • @MeltingRubberZ28
      @MeltingRubberZ28 9 місяців тому +1

      I'm feeling you and I are similar except age lol. I'm 35 and on track to be financially independent early, however I'm thinking I'd rather do something a bit more part time/consult when I'm in my 50s rather than grind it out into mid 60s.

    • @robnelson6545
      @robnelson6545 9 місяців тому

      @@nathanrice7352 even with my attention to detail I am more than competitive against younger engineers. The problem is my expectations are possibly 2x-3x the younger engineers (straight productivity) and on top of that I’m expected to mentor younger engineers and influence people and teams without the title (I’m a senior engineer). Seems like it’s an expectations misalignment. You push harder and they pay managers to find more and more ways to eke out even more productivity. Almost think it’s caused by better management techniques than anything which does affect everybody but maybe more so at this time experienced engineers.
      [edit] Now that I think about it, I think the goal is to get me to 5-10x productivity since management methods figure a good person is 10x as productive as a new person. The problem that they don’t realize is that I can’t get there without paying attention to detail. So unless I can bootstrap up myself to 10x then they are going to be counterproductive to my productivity.

  • @trackguy4038
    @trackguy4038 9 місяців тому +3

    I retired earlier than expected. I had 38 years as a Fed. I have health care so that made the decision easy

  • @josephcler3299
    @josephcler3299 9 місяців тому +7

    I was laid off in March of 2020 because of Cxxxd(contract engineer) at the age of 57, which was a couple years earlier than I planned. Its all working out great because of my life long saving goals. Start saving early and let time be your friend.

  • @mitchbandalan9450
    @mitchbandalan9450 9 місяців тому +8

    They can if they avoid getting married to the wrong person. This alone can kill your plans no matter what you do.

    • @dstevens518
      @dstevens518 9 місяців тому +1

      Yup, and the best thing is marrying the right one. Accelerates your path to FI and will make your life more enjoyable the whole way

    • @ErinTalksMoney
      @ErinTalksMoney  9 місяців тому

      💯 percent agree

  • @livingunashamed4869
    @livingunashamed4869 9 місяців тому +5

    My current plan is to retire at 60 with 2.5 million :). Still got aways to go.

    • @jimv77
      @jimv77 9 місяців тому

      You will learn that factors will cause you to move the goalpost..it sucks....LOL....We are 46 with $3.1 and still working.

    • @livingunashamed4869
      @livingunashamed4869 9 місяців тому

      negative I need much less than what I'm aiming for.@@jimv77 And 3.1 is far enough for anyone, cut your lifestyle bro. Thats 120k a year!

    • @acrobizer1238
      @acrobizer1238 9 місяців тому

      U the man

    • @ErinTalksMoney
      @ErinTalksMoney  9 місяців тому +1

      Good luck!!!

  • @mikebridges20
    @mikebridges20 9 місяців тому +6

    Erin, this is probably one of the most important and effective videos I've seen from you yet. Many have approached the concept of retirement from a financial perspective (which you have done well here), and *some* have touched on some of the other aspects, but you touched on many of them with a good, thought-provoking summary.
    One thing you might add in the future is the improving health of the aging population. In the not too distant past, many people retired due to health reasons, regardless of their position financially. Currently, not only are people living longer, but their quality of life is better, longer, allowing them to stay in the workforce longer. This is another reason I think "retirement age" numbers are increasing: not because the people *have* to delay retirement, but because they *want* to.
    Great video!!!

  • @fredswartley9778
    @fredswartley9778 9 місяців тому +4

    I don't like the concept of early retirement. I think it's good to work as long as possible. But I do realize that some are forced into early retirement and it's good to be prepared for the worst!

    • @ErinTalksMoney
      @ErinTalksMoney  9 місяців тому

      I honestly go back and forth all the time - some days I want to retire early (55 or so) some days I think I will never retire

  • @acrobizer1238
    @acrobizer1238 9 місяців тому +4

    You forgot to mention volunteering as a way to fill the 40 - 50 hour traditional work week.

  • @mitchthornton1820
    @mitchthornton1820 9 місяців тому +4

    Through my experience now that I am retired at 61 we found it most beneficial for our retirement dollars was to put our child in the best position to succeed so hopefully he wouldn’t need financial help in our retirement .

  • @pnowikow
    @pnowikow 9 місяців тому +1

    I've been in information technology forever and work doesn't seem like work most days. I'd advise anyone who loves something to consider making that passion into a career.

    • @misssophiamae
      @misssophiamae 7 місяців тому

      Yes! We save/invest a lot just in case, but my most important strategy is to have a job I don’t want to retire from.

  • @52CA
    @52CA 9 місяців тому +3

    The key to early retirement is easy peasy. Public pension!

  • @bradleymaravalli2851
    @bradleymaravalli2851 9 місяців тому +3

    I am aiming for an early retirement and will likely have that ability at the current rate. However, I likely won't actually "retire" in a traditional sense but do more with side projects and businesses. Just ease up on my working hours to say coach little league.

  • @loganfishbeard
    @loganfishbeard 9 місяців тому +4

    I am Pre-tired. I left the workforce to become a stay at home dad a few years back and have unfortunately priced myself out of any job less than 60k/yr due to a simplified lifestyle(reduced living expenses). I figure I have about 6 more years before my kids become independent enough for me to return to the workforce full time. It can be frustrating and lonely some days but I wouldn't trade it for all the money in the world.

    • @ErinTalksMoney
      @ErinTalksMoney  9 місяців тому

      I work from home full time (in my day job, no UA-cam) and I can say I often have similar feelings! We also have a new baby …and being home with the little one is pretty hard wonderful

  • @educatedwanderer9293
    @educatedwanderer9293 9 місяців тому +3

    At age 55 I'm at my FI number but due to having a job I find rewarding and the need to retain health insurance, with two sons in college, I plan to work to 59 or 60 then reevaluate. I will likely cut my hours at that point to phase into semi-retirement and maintain healthcare insurance through work until I can get Medicare.

    • @ErinTalksMoney
      @ErinTalksMoney  9 місяців тому +1

      I might aim for a semi retirement as well …then phase into full retirement

  • @xrpthegamechanger
    @xrpthegamechanger 9 місяців тому +4

    "Working to bring you joy" hahaha not everyone is you tuber Erin! 🤣

    • @ErinTalksMoney
      @ErinTalksMoney  9 місяців тому +7

      😂 I still work a full time job! UA-cam is a side gig for me!

  • @kevinmazur1519
    @kevinmazur1519 9 місяців тому +6

    Not retired- just tired 😮‍💨

    • @ErinTalksMoney
      @ErinTalksMoney  9 місяців тому +1

      I feel that was a lot of days 🥱

  • @kirklandphil
    @kirklandphil 9 місяців тому +3

    So many great points Erin, after one year of retirement I found focusing on my health was a very cheap activity. So easy to go for walks, go to the club, and take time to prepare healthy meals. Not taking SS until 67.8 so it was very smart to stockpile funds to make the money side easy. Many think Medicare will be cheap when they retire I have revenue from a sold business and they hit my wife and me with over 500 each a month. I should have known that but I figure that's fair as I do get plenty. Enjoy your weekend.

    • @ErinTalksMoney
      @ErinTalksMoney  9 місяців тому

      Thanks Phil!! Focusing on your health is affordable and comes with lots of rewards!! Stay healthy and enjoy that retirement 😊

  • @jannorell6049
    @jannorell6049 9 місяців тому +2

    The system wants me to work until 68. My plan is to work full time to 60, then 80 % to 62 and 50% to 64 and then retire. By that time I should be half way to my FIRE number (I started investing at 50) so I will be well off since I should be able to live off my pension and having my FIRE money for travel and so on.

  • @chrishollis6015
    @chrishollis6015 9 місяців тому +2

    I retired at 57, wife 55 and moved to more desirable area. Got bored after 3 months and found a fun job. I worked at a resort around the pools making sure everyone behaved. It was fun being a part of a younger group and guest that were generally in a good mood. I did this for a few years until I got adjusted.

  • @billy2807
    @billy2807 9 місяців тому +3

    Great thumbnail! Must be comforting to know that you'll look MORE like Helen Hunt as you get older. ;)

    • @ErinTalksMoney
      @ErinTalksMoney  9 місяців тому +1

      hahaha! depends on the app I use - others make me look like something from the Shining 😂

    • @billy2807
      @billy2807 9 місяців тому +1

      @@ErinTalksMoney oh God. I think I know exactly the character you're talking about and absolutely no shot of that. Great content, as always - thank you!

  • @live4mac
    @live4mac 9 місяців тому +4

    I'm about to hit 30 and have 2X my salary invested in retirement accounts. I currently have ~30% savings rate and am still able to live comfortably. I plan to continue the aggressive savings at least until age 40 when I will probably dial it back and coast to retirement between 50 and 55. Obviously I have a lot of life to live in between and when/if I have kids will play a big impact. More than anything, I want to be able to retire on my own terms. I like having projects and staying busy so if I enjoy my job at the time I may keep working a few more years or try and cut back on hours.

    • @ErinTalksMoney
      @ErinTalksMoney  9 місяців тому

      Congrats on your hard work thus far!!

  • @JBoy340a
    @JBoy340a 9 місяців тому +3

    We could have retired early, but enjoyed what we do. We own a small company and only work on the projects we find interesting and on our schedule.

    • @ErinTalksMoney
      @ErinTalksMoney  9 місяців тому

      That is awesome! Sounds like the perfect set up

  • @shaneomack5018
    @shaneomack5018 9 місяців тому +1

    My wife is a hospice Rn and buys her own health insurance. It was 400 a month last year… we are planning on returning in Spain just because of the health care system in the US is completely broken

  • @greggpurviance7252
    @greggpurviance7252 9 місяців тому +1

    Ha, a VERY few people will retire early or be able to. Plus why. Find a profession you love & be productive. And medcare is not really cheaper

    • @ErinTalksMoney
      @ErinTalksMoney  9 місяців тому

      So important to actually like what you do!!

  • @ShawnPatton-rm2hv
    @ShawnPatton-rm2hv 9 місяців тому +3

    I retired from the USN days before I was 45 years old, but healthcare is inexpensive for me, I receive a pension and my wife has a career in public high school education. I was able to almost never have to move out of the area, which allowed us to own two houses and sell the first one.

    • @ErinTalksMoney
      @ErinTalksMoney  9 місяців тому

      Nice to have the right spouse and a pension! Makes a world of difference

  • @mrsamtheman80
    @mrsamtheman80 6 місяців тому

    I retired at 42 (from the Air Force). Now work in a job I enjoy, mostly from home, but still full-time. Like a hobbit at breakfast, working now toward Second Retirement!

  • @adamdejesus4017
    @adamdejesus4017 7 місяців тому

    Retired at 48. No kids, no debt, house paid off, $1M net worth plus a military pension/VA healthcare. To your point at @7:00 you need to fill your time. I am a "professional volunteer" so I get the same social returns of a job while working for free (they pay lodging and food when I travel as a volunteer). When I'm home my hobby is woodworking and I have begun making money by selling my crafts; a hobby that pays for itself and might become a source of income down the road.

  • @Savvynomad225
    @Savvynomad225 9 місяців тому +1

    Retirement is simply freeing your time to do what you enjoy rather than what you’re asked

  • @swlancaster1964
    @swlancaster1964 7 місяців тому

    I am not rich. Hope to have 350k at 62. Getting income based apartment with no debt and $1200 social security. Will get free Obamacare until 65.

  • @c7042
    @c7042 7 місяців тому

    Too late. Already did 16 years ago at 58 years old. However I don't have as much money but OK money and I won't run out. I think I saved too much anyway. I'm a VietVet so the VA takes care of my medical care anyway.

  • @vjhicks8533
    @vjhicks8533 7 місяців тому

    Right now I’m 50 but with a couple of young kids in kinder and 2nd grade (I started late). I was thinking perhaps 55 to 57 and felt like the kids would still be living in the house and young enough to where much of my time would be dedicated to them and by the time they actually got out of the house I’d then be at traditional retirement age.
    As far as health care I could still be covered by my spouse and I’m eligible for my companies retirement health care coverage. My spouse has a 6 figure salary in a lower stress job than mine and currently plans to keep working until 65.

  • @rarelycares8416
    @rarelycares8416 9 місяців тому +1

    My financial independence happened Jan 1st 2023, the year I turned 55. I will retire May 2024, I have more than I need but not more than I want. Will be comfortable even if the market goes sideways, will be first class if the market does historical averages.

  • @RxChuck61686
    @RxChuck61686 9 місяців тому +4

    The best hack to retiring early: build a huge passive income stream. When your day job is less than half your total income and you won't need to rely on savings or social security, you might just be ready to fire your boss!

    • @Zombiebeast1995
      @Zombiebeast1995 9 місяців тому

      Such good advice. It’ll only take 25+ years to achieve that for a normal person.

    • @RxChuck61686
      @RxChuck61686 9 місяців тому

      @@Zombiebeast1995 Yes, most 'normal' people aren't very good with personal finance/investing strategies and it would indeed take them 25+ years conservatively. Financial literacy needs to be a mandatory high school course.

    • @Zombiebeast1995
      @Zombiebeast1995 9 місяців тому

      @@RxChuck61686 I agree. But I think most normal people learn a different skill, that is very needed, and we all can’t be very good with personal finance. My point was it’s easy to say what you did, but what’s the actual hack? How do you actually do what you said? Some additional information could be very helpful to people. I should be in a great spot in about 12 years (millionaire around age 40 is my projection) but want more freedom to do many things so I’ll probably work till mid 50’s. Even with a good knowledge of money it takes most 15 years to build substantial wealth.

  • @chiefeng4451
    @chiefeng4451 9 місяців тому +3

    Retired late 40ties after 30 plus serving on AD. Pension, health care, no debt, check, check & check and trust me when I say I have traveled more than most who’ll read this. After a go-go life -style, retirement got kinda boring after about a year. Sooooo, I went back to work. I’ll try it again in a few years.

    • @ErinTalksMoney
      @ErinTalksMoney  9 місяців тому

      I bet you got some epic travels in! Maybe you could do mini-retirements…take a work break for a year or two…go back to work….take a break repeat

  • @marveliciousgoku4343
    @marveliciousgoku4343 9 місяців тому +1

    my kind of Retirement is transitioning into a Part-time little to no stress job that I enjoy doing while keeping me Physically and mentally active 😊😊😊.

  • @allenboyer2207
    @allenboyer2207 9 місяців тому +1

    Got Cobra Coverage until 65, then onto Medicare. Very lucky for the health coverage.

  • @renanuneza8932
    @renanuneza8932 9 місяців тому +2

    Youre like the female Graham Stephan but better.

  • @kevinedward4195
    @kevinedward4195 7 місяців тому

    I am retiring at 59. But I have a Fed pension with SSA which takes me over 100k with no debt and 1.3 million that I non't need to touch.

  • @bradleysargent9803
    @bradleysargent9803 9 місяців тому +2

    In about 10 years at 59.5 years old is my target. Or at least switch to something else that gives me more time away from work :) The cost of healthcare is a concern. Our home should be paid off and we might even down size by then.

    • @pixelpoppyproductions
      @pixelpoppyproductions 9 місяців тому +1

      That’s my current goal as well, in about 15 years. I would most likely still “work” but it would be on my own ideas and projects instead of working for someone else on their schedule.
      Earlier could be better, my mom died pretty young, well before the “typical” retirement age.
      I don’t want to work until I’m literally dead, but I also worry about healthcare costs.

  • @miragexl007
    @miragexl007 6 місяців тому

    I can't stop running numbers this year. I'm 50 wife is 56. I'm thinking this is the push. I'm thinking 5-6 years. It's just medical insurance and coverage that's the biggest concern. We've worked in medical for like thirty years.. Not the greatest benefits funny. And we.
    Know how much it costs

  • @bkish444
    @bkish444 6 місяців тому

    Plan for mini retirements throughout your life. Take a year off from working every 5 or 10 years and go travel or do something that you wont be able to do when you are older. I have done this 2x already, and those were some of the happiest years of my life.

  • @jbfabre74
    @jbfabre74 6 місяців тому

    This concept that by being an employee you have no freedom and no autonomy, I never understood. If you make your job your own, the goals of the company become yours and you become en entrepreneur being an employee.

  • @joeriveracomedy
    @joeriveracomedy 9 місяців тому +2

    I am paying cash for my lease payoff in a few months. I aim to be retired young & affluent. Doing the work.

  • @CrayonEater94
    @CrayonEater94 9 місяців тому +5

    Retirement for me would be to still work but know that I can quit at any point.

  • @michaelgreskamp1093
    @michaelgreskamp1093 9 місяців тому +1

    Erin - As usual ex excellent video - big hurdles you identified. A vast vast vast majority will not be able to retire earlhy with the possible exception of those that have a defined pension benefit. Even if they do - similar to SS the value of the pension increases withh number of years worked. I retired at 60 but was with a big multi national company with defined pension and retiree medical benefits. The big uncertainity of retirement is what you have detailed - sequence of returns. Therefore one really needs to stress test their portofolio. I have been retired for ten yyears and it's been the best due to solid financial foundation, good health, and a strong relationship with my spouse. The other hurdle I see is couples having children later. We had two children and done at 29. Therefore, when I hit my prime earning years in my 50s both were almost out of college and on their own. I hade years where I saved over 50% of my compensation.

  • @6zeek9
    @6zeek9 7 місяців тому

    I would like to retire from my career as soon as possible, but might consider something after to pass time.

  • @ronrae4029
    @ronrae4029 9 місяців тому +2

    Retired at 61.5 bec of medical issues. Was ok w aca until medicare kicked in. Dont regret it. Can survive w no debt and living on a budget

  • @ericeichstaedt2357
    @ericeichstaedt2357 9 місяців тому +2

    Good to hear some "push back" in the FIRE plan, additional things to consider that aren't usually talked about. Also, all the good data to consider, statistics are very informative. Generally it's good you look at things holistically, since we're are all just human and subject to wishful thinking or error

  • @chrisharris4223
    @chrisharris4223 9 місяців тому +3

    My wife will be 50 at FI (if all goes well), in about 6 years time. But we have 3 kids and our youngest will only be 12 so realistically there wouldn’t be a massive point in us both retiring anyway. For example, as we wouldn’t be able to travel as much as we’d like to. But we will be able to take it easier and perhaps do a staged retirement

    • @ErinTalksMoney
      @ErinTalksMoney  9 місяців тому +2

      Absolutely….maybe do a semi-retirement and work part time

    • @chrisharris4223
      @chrisharris4223 9 місяців тому +2

      @@ErinTalksMoney absolutely, although I may very likely retire and my wife might work for a couple more years, she has always been much more career focussed than I :)

  • @goose-F16
    @goose-F16 9 місяців тому +2

    GREAT video.. FIRE is not really viable for most. Accelerating into retirement will set you up far better than trying to do it when you hit your bottom goals.. The expenses keep climbing.. We ran a bunch of scenarios back in the early 2000s on this.. spinning the wheel at your level into standard retirement at 62 - 70 produced the most margin for most.. fwiw.. and not hitting it in the first few years as much is key.. nice vid Erin..

  • @medebarr
    @medebarr 9 місяців тому +1

    Starting my 70% pension at 56. Giddy up.

  • @OnCashFlow
    @OnCashFlow 8 місяців тому

    Early retirement has been really fun for me these past 3 years. I think what most of us really want is more control/autonomy over our time and what we decide to do with it.

  • @ordinaryhuman5645
    @ordinaryhuman5645 9 місяців тому +2

    Healthcare seems like a non-issue if you're reasonably prepared since the ACA became a thing.
    Here's what I'm seeing when I put my numbers into the KFF calculator for next year as a 35 year old expecting to earn $30k/year (which is more than I'd typically spend).
    - Estimated financial help: $384 per month ($4,610 per year) as a premium tax credit. This covers 87% of the monthly costs.
    - Your cost for a silver plan: $56 per month ($669 per year) in premiums (which equals 2.23% of your household income).
    - The most you have to pay for a silver plan: 2.23% of income for the second-lowest cost silver plan
    - Without financial help, your silver plan would cost: $440 per month ($5,279 per year)
    And those cost estimates don't change too much when I plug in older ages.

    • @hm51008
      @hm51008 9 місяців тому +1

      I found similar numbers with my research.
      It helps to find a Health Insurance Advisor to talk through the specifics.

    • @DaveM-FFB
      @DaveM-FFB 9 місяців тому +1

      But here's the shocker - at age 35, the full cost of your silver plan is $384 + $56 = $440 /mo. The exact same ACA plan for a 50 year old might be $700/mo, and at 62, the same ACA plan might cost $900/mo. Nobody tells you that health insurance premiums rise exponentially in the several years approaching age 65 and Medicare. I don't have medical issues or pre-existing conditions, and my ACA quotes (without any subsidy) were starting around $900/mo when I was age 63 and 64. Don't plan on being able to count on the subsidy. Your living expenses will increase more than you expect, and your income from all sources will increase to compensate for that, resulting in diminished subsidy. Also, a large group of politicians are still vowing to dismantle the ACA (subsidies and all), so I wouldn't make long term plans counting on the subsidy. Expensive health insurance premiums erased my plans for retiring before 65. I wound up getting a non-ACA plan for the few years prior to 65 just to save $150/mo.

    • @ordinaryhuman5645
      @ordinaryhuman5645 9 місяців тому +1

      ​@@DaveM-FFBWorst case, if the subsidies go away I can play the medical tourism game if decades of compounding haven't left me with multiple millions that I'm probably not going to be able to spend anyway within my lifetime.
      As-is, my health care expenses besides the insurance that I never use are approximately $0/year, so I'm not too concerned, especially when the costs are affordable for the foreseeable future even without subsidies. It doesn't make sense to keep working for 3+ decades to be able to afford health insurance in my 60s that will probably still be affordable even if I retire early.
      And those politicians rarely change a thing. There's a reason they're called cuckservatives nowadays; all they do is sit and watch and complain. The ACA happened over a decade ago already and they haven't done a thing about it.

  • @tedcarriker3293
    @tedcarriker3293 9 місяців тому

    You probably won't decide, your company will

  • @josephjuno9555
    @josephjuno9555 9 місяців тому +2

    I retired at 61 in July🎉! But as planned, i am returning to work parttime in Jan. I may work part or entire yr? I will get full healthcare but will have $250 p mo taken out of check for Blue Cross. I will only have 6% taken for Roth 403b to get the 3% match? Will pile as much Cash as i can into HP Savings account. Now 4.35%

    • @ErinTalksMoney
      @ErinTalksMoney  9 місяців тому

      I love the idea of part time work in early retirement - it can be very fulfilling

  • @garysd9943
    @garysd9943 9 місяців тому +2

    Excellent video Erin. You seem to do a better job than most financial/retirement youtubers at coming up with new content instead of just re-hashing content that others have already covered. And thanks also for including the chapters and time stamps! I'm recently retired a little bit early based on your over/under 60 rule. One month into retirement I had to replace one of the HVAC systems for my house, proving your point about the expenses never retiring.

    • @ErinTalksMoney
      @ErinTalksMoney  9 місяців тому

      Thanks Gary!

    • @dstevens518
      @dstevens518 9 місяців тому +1

      Yup, new tires, fireplace repair, and new fridge for us. Expenses never retire, build a fat nest egg, you'll be happy you did.

  • @pilauopala843
    @pilauopala843 9 місяців тому +2

    FI is liberating.

  • @yhckelly
    @yhckelly 9 місяців тому +2

    My Mom retired at 62, my Dad at 70. They did well within that context, but it was an open secret my Mom realllly wanted my Dad to retire. My parents are happy people, but I did observe the polite tension there. Talk with your spouse about retirement, and be willing to work longer or retire earlier if needed to maintain a good marriage. Retiring into an imbalance with a perpetually miffed spouse would stink.