The Drydock - Episode 122
Вставка
- Опубліковано 30 чер 2024
- 00:00:00 - Intro
00:00:31 - Shells of the same calibre in different guns
00:05:58 - The ballistics of shells in water
00:13:33 - Specialist Athlete
00:15:17 - Design teams you want to reach back through time and slap
00:20:00 - Why two dispacements for submarines?
00:21:37 - No guns larger than 5" after WW2?
00:25:07 - Alterations to shell charges for autoloaders
00:30:57 - Did navies ever run out of gun barrells?
00:36:32 - Examples of terrible leadership ruining an otherwise good ship?
00:39:43 - WW2 ship components underwater
00:42:48 - Of the retrofits and conversions that occurred after WW1 and before/during WW2 which would you have stopped and which would you have altered to create a better ship that the original conversion/retrofit?
00:47:06 - What would be the first class of warships (or approximate year) that were designed from the outset to incorporate future improvements?
00:52:24 - Was battleship machinery custom-designed for each ship class, or did designers select from what was readily available from commercial suppliers? And why?
00:55:45 - Which of the Navies involved in WW2 were the best at night fighting?
01:01:29 - Historically, which was more dangerous in the age of steel and steam, a hit to a gun turret or a direct hit to a magazine?
01:03:58 - Sperrbrecher anti-mine vessels
01:08:31 - Was PQ17 right to scatter?
01:10:55 - Large warships in enclosed bodies of water
01:15:29 - Manufacture of naval shells
01:22:42 - Official report into the loss of HMAS Sydney
01:27:45 - Could the North Carolinas or the SoDaks ever have been upgunned to the 16"/50?
01:31:25 - How is weather measured and forecasted for fleets?
01:38:00 - Which is worse for a navy. Lack of manpower, or lack of resources?
01:42:42 - What happens if a loaded gun tube is filled with water or fouled by ice?
01:45:51 - Lexington sailing through a smoke screen
01:46:49 - Did the adoption of naval boilers lead to ships having desalination systems to water their boilers and sailors?
01:51:55 - Aye vs Aye Aye and weighted plates
01:59:23 - Ericsson and the ships propellor
02:05:02 - Starter boilers?
02:07:53 - The Duke of Wellington twice described his army as "the scum of the earth". Could the same be said of the sailors of the Age of Sail?
02:11:03 - How much of an impact did the invention of smokeless powder have on naval artillery?
02:14:35 - What US presidential or congressional election had the largest impact (good or bad) on the US Navy?
02:19:21 - Portholes and ships armour
02:22:09 - Bismarck armour scheme, designed to fight the French?
02:26:01 - Dipping flags whilst in port?
02:28:28 - Did Polish naval forces ever attack Russian forces during WWII?
02:30:12 - Is being first in the line of battle suicide?
02:37:32 - Were Japanese operation names random or were they blatant references to their targets. MO being Port Moresby, MI being Midway?
02:40:44 - In your research, which admiral or officer have you found that possessed the best sense of humor?
02:45:15 - Why do USN ships have so many guns?
02:53:13 - Effectiveness of battleship/cruiser shore bombardment
02:59:39 - When (and why) did peacetime paint schemes stop being a thing in the major navies around the world?
03:03:15 - Why did some navies move away from the armoured conning tower sooner than others?
03:08:45 - RCN in WW2
03:12:50 - Iwo Jima vs Gibralter defences
03:19:31 - Channel Admin / Ship design competition winners
An archive of Drydock Questions and free naval photos - www.drachinifel.co.uk
Model ships of many periods - store.warlordgames.com?aff=21
Want to support the channel? - / drachinifel
Shirt/mug/hoodie - shop.spreadshirt.com/drachini...
Poster? - www.etsy.com/uk/shop/Drachinifel
Want to talk about ships? / discord
Want to get some books? www.amazon.co.uk/shop/drachinifelDrydock
Hi, one of the Draftsmen here. There were two errors on nationality of the listed SpringSharp design competition winners. Almirante Brown and Guerrico were both Argentine, not Chilean and Brazilian respectively. Sorry for any issues this may have caused, there was a communications breakdown internally and it will not happen again. Thank you for your patience and we look forwards to the next contest which will be starting very soon.
Have those responsible been sacked?
Those responsible for the sacking have been sacked
@@corypharr4572 And a couple hundred llamas were hired at great expense to redo the credits
@@taccovert4 as well as 14 north Chilean guanacos, which are closely related to the llama.
Confusing an Argentinian for a Chilean has resulted in people being shot, no joke intended though I haven't heard of them shooting at each other recently.
My mother told me once during the war (WW2) she was an ammunition tester. She shoved a depth gauge into the nose of each shell to make sure it had the right amount of TNT, and she had to poke the stuff and make sure it wasn't too bubbly. She said the supervisor complained once because Mom was rejecting too many shells, but she got angry and said she had a brother and husband out in that war, and she wasn't going to send them bad ammunition.
That’s badass! Did your dad and uncle survive the war?
Damn straight! Thing about it is that you do need every shell to be it's best because you fire a lot of shells but odds of hitting the target are not great so if only one shell hits the target you need it to do it's worst (or best). And it could dramatically be the difference in life & death for a lot of people.
And from what I understand the US bursting charges were less than the UK bursting charges. Furthermore, the Italians had a problem with quality control on their shells. And had they not had that problem some British ships would have probably been hit on numerous occasions. But instead they just killed a bunch of fish in the general vicinity of the British ships.
She’ll manufacture is a set of critical processes from end to end. Just one outset tolerance risks it not working as it should.
I'm not going to lie. When I saw "my mother was an ammunition tester", all I could think of was Looney Tunes cartoons, involving tapping the shells on the fuse with a hammer ... 😱
@@spencerdawkins That is hilarious. I got one for you that is even crazier. I'm homelessin the DC Area. During Covid I paid a lady $25 a night to sleep on her couch. Last Thanksgiving her son became homeless and so I was out he was in & this other friend said I could stay with him. His name was Harry & I hadn't known him very long. Well he was schizophrenic and would not let me sleep. Wanted to talk all night. So by Christmas I couldn't take it anymore & left. Well he had a dog, a little pit bull named Daisy. And he had one of those hands free leashes that go around your waist. I had told him that it was dangerous but didn't realize how dangerous. He was getting off the Metro here in VA,, coming back from DC & idk I guess he was looking at his phone & not paying attention. He got off the train but the dog stopped to smell something. They closed the doors & Daisy is still on the train, worst of all the door is closed on the leash, the leash is around his waist and the train drags him the whole length of the platform & he hits his head at the end of the platform. But the leash breaks then. But he dies from the head wounds. But Daisy, the dog was ok. Well I didn't find out about it til a couple of days later, even though when it happened I was getting on a bus at that station when it happened & saw the police & ambulance show up. And it was all on the news. I'm homeless & don't get to see the news. Sorry such a long story but... but a couple of weeks after this happened I have this dream. I rarely ever remember my dreams but I woke up right after this one & that was how I remembered it. OK, Roadrunner & Willy E Coyote! Daisy is the Roadrunner looking out the window of the train, Harry is Willy Coyote standing on the platform. Daisy says BEEP, BEEP & the train takes off. Harry looks down at the leash, makes one of those "Oh, shit" faces & is gone. I told a friend about the dream. She accused me of making it up. And I'm like "why would I?" Idk. Crazy? Right?
And just to let ya know I'm NOT making this up. GOOGLE "Death at Dunn Loring Metro" it happened in February.
The only person on youtube that can talk for 3 hours, be engaging, interesting and informative and that I still want to listen to for ANOTHER 3 hours.
Don't forget funny
Check out Gettysburg battlefield walks. Stuff writer. A few of the guides are very good . Matt Adkins for one
That is Drach to a "T", as we say in Texas.
The amount of time you dedicate to your content and your audience never ceases to amaze me.
Incredible isn't it. IRL he is a semi pro break dancer, kind of hip hop-opera. He won the english championship back I believe 3 years ago now and it wasn't even his best dance routine. Luckily he has given up peeking into sexy girls windows at night thank the Lord right it's already been 4 months so doing great.
I say keep the kick ass content coming our way right, and perhaps devote all the time possible only on the youtube, do not need him getting charged again for the whole window watching game. And we can't let him go back into the dancing, last time we didn't get content for way too long
A man among men
Captains of yore: “We are uncomfortable putting yet more sources of fire on wooden ships.”
Unborn spirit of Hyman Rickover: “Fire you say? Wait until you see what I’ve got planned”
The idea of Admiral McCain being thrown into the lagoon was amazeballs. I do remember as a very junior officer on a night out in Liverpool when we had a run a shore and one of the guests in the mess that night was the Chief of Staff, and we got very drunk and he not only approved of when I snuck him into a student union on sports team night (Wednesdays). His eyes were out on storks with all the public displays of lesbian affection going on with the girls sports teams and he was certainly pleasantly suprised by the excessively cheap price of the alcohol. This was a great start for a fantastic run ashore that only got more interesting when we moved onto a few of the bars on Mathew Street and being a little tipsy he got annoyed by the slow service in one of them at which point he jumped over the bar and started pouring us pints. Needless to say we where kicked out of the bar and carried on to a few others. A couple of weeks later I was in Faslaine doing OST and I went to the officers mess and he walked in said hello referring to me by name before enquiring if I was enjoying the local nightlife.
What's the timestamp for this McCain bit? Thanks in advance!
@@robotorch Typical report of a "jack me dhobeystrop" run ashore - I remember many such examples during my nine years in the pusser....
@@robotorch 2:40:48
Waking up one morning and two bi-girls in the next cot getting all cosy with each other..
Amazeballs is an amazing word.
The underwater behavior of shells is mainly due to the leverage of the turbulent water over the sloped nose of a pointed shell being very great, the spin rate to keep it going nose-first being totally overwhelmed by the much higher forces of moving water, and the distance that the pointed nose is from the shell's center-of-gravity giving those nose titling forces high leverage. To fix most of this, a flat nose, even with some tapering to reduce the total drag somewhat (Japanese Type 88 (modified British-style end-of-WWI Mark 5 AP shells used as the design pattern for Japanese ammo just after WWI) and WWII Type 91/Type 1 AP shells with their Cap Heads (removable nose tips, leaving a flat face under them) and windscreen torn free as designed), is much better, as it eliminates much of the leverage, much of the area that the force can push against in the first place, and the flat nose instantly on contact forcing the water sideways at very high speed radially in all directions, which forms an empty cavitation bubble around the shell so that when the water come back together it is past the base end of the shell (until it slows down considerably) and thus there is almost no sideways forces on the shell body during its forward motion at high speed, allowing the Japanese shells, as the best example, to not jump out of the water due to the higher forces on the bottom surface of the shell than on the top surface (why boats float) since these forces are not touching the shell for a considerable distance underwater. Indeed, the Japanese Type 91 AP shell hitting at its optimum 17-degree angle of fall for what the Japanese considered the optimum medium fighting range, allows the shells to go up to 200 times their diameter (!!) just below the water surface before they started to slow down to the point where they curved downward and sank. To reach this highest distance, the base fuze was increased in delay to 0.4 second, way, way longer than used by any other nation's base-fuzed AP shell fuzes -- note that this caused some problems if hitting the ship directly on less-armored areas, since the shells might just make caliber-diameter holes and exist out the far side without exploding. Everything has pros and cons.
Perhaps I’m insane but I freakin love these super long Drydock episodes
Who doesn’t love them?
@@thepizzapalsroleplay2815 there's someone somewhere probably but I don't know them and I don't want to know them
I love them because they time perfectly between my 1st break and my lunch.
They are great to listen to at work
@@TheCsel If your job demands 100% concentration, that sucks.
In 1969 I started an engineering apprenticeship with the UK MOD "Quality Assurance Department" based at Woolwich Arsenal. I spent a fair bit of time learning to design gauges to check shells. Anyway...there were a number of derelict buildings on the vast sprawling site and it was possible to wander around them. There was all sorts of stuff lying around in those days. I got into one large building and found that it was full of old large naval guns. Mostly just barrels but a few with breaches. Several were 15inch. They were all labelled with faded brown cardboard labels tied on with string. One was labelled "Prinz Eugen"! I imagine that there must be a story behind that somewhere. I don't know what became of them all but I imagine they were sold for scrap when the site was cleared for development. But I do find it slightly hair tingling that I (apparently) actually touched a gun from that famous ship. Or at least a spare.
“The French knew how to build a nice ship” is something many of their Royal Navy crews can attest to
The French copied no one! And no one copied the French!
@@kasieclark6673 what are you doing in England!?
Napoleonic era British naval reserve = French Navy.
@@kasieclark6673 A lot of "French" ship/boatbuilding was (until recently) actually carried ou by Bretons
@Daniel Large lol. That comment made me giggle
"The less said about Beatty, the better" Yeah sure Drach. We all know he's secretly your favorite admiral of all time. ;)
😂
😂
Beatty ? he detached the 5th Battle squadron god only knows why.
Favorite Admiral to drag through the mud? Absolutely!
Those be fighting words.
My uncle was a member of a 155 mm howitzer crew at Solarno. They were firing over "open sights" at German tanks. As they had discovered in North Africa, 155 mm HE, at about 42 kg, was hard on tanks.
This is the stuff I love to hear. Real stories from real war veterans.
Something puzzles me, then. I have read of 105mm howitzers shooting at North Korean T-35/85s, and the shells bouncing off. Wouldn't HE shells explode on impact?
@@ronaldfinkelstein6335 Depends on fuse setting for intended targets.
Great episode! The placement of a mast behind the smoke stack (again) is a triumph of hope over experience.
Many many ships have a mast aft of the funnel
“It’s a pipe bomb, yaaaay!”
Ladies, get you a man who references Potter Puppet Pals, in 2020.
1:42:55 for quick reference
Me: Sure drach is a total boss, a history aficionado, one of the best content creators there is, and a model builder, but does he make quirky cultural references?
Also me: 😮
Iced up 20mm muzzle anti aircraft gun on Liberty Ship : first two rounds are blanks.
Check with Iain MacCollum.
@@myparceltape1169 all hail gun jesus
Brandon...lets NOT go....ua-cam.com/video/dEWoARiEofY/v-deo.html
Drach, US Navy Sailor here. IRT your Aye vs Aye-Aye. You are correct. Aye is regarded as a response in the affirmative. Aye-Aye, is considered an affirmative response, with the intent to take intimidate action. But we tent to use just Aye as a generic response in a lot of cases when a full repeat-back is not required.
Hey, former US Marine, here. I think that we stopped saying "Aye-aye" completely as a time-saving thing or a way to separate ourselves from the navy, culturally. I kinda' doubt it's the latter, though, because we still insist on referring to walls as bulkheads, etc, which is so ridiculous when most Marines will go their entire term without ever setting foot on a ship.
Moop Us East Coast Marines simply say “Aye Sir” in response to the issuance of orders. West Coast Marines still say “Aye-Aye Sir”. Both use “Yes Sir” as an affirmative response to a question.
Not an expert, but I always understood "aye" to indicate agreement, while "aye aye" indicted a response to an order. Eg. "The weather is beastly." "Aye." "Bear to port!" "Aye aye!"
19:45, DRACHISM FIRST CLASS: "point your designer back towards his drawing table where he can presumably keep eating his wallpaper paste while designing your battleship" lol
Just drove to and from a baseball game 3 hours in each direction and you kept me company both times. Thanks bro.
Why am I not surprised to find that Drach is a fan of the "Rapid Unscheduled Disassembly" ?
Variations of "Surface vessel X is rapidly joining the submarine fleet" is also a great line used by Drach.
It's no fun for those who work in that business, for sure.
We already knew he's an engineer.
@@catfish552 Hmmm... you make a good point.
@@AssassinAgent 😂
I remember hearing ( back in the late '80s-early '90s), after hitting a mine or two in the Persian Gulf the crew of a supertanker started wearing T-shirts saying "Worlds Largest Minesweeper."
Link to one such ship -
apnews.com/article/96bd8073547bb8a82c54c951365590f8
A link describing the sad state of American minesweepers -
www.propublica.org/article/iran-has-hundreds-of-naval-mines-us-navy-minesweepers-find-old-dishwashers-car-parts
The book _Decision at Sea_ mentioned a news conference held after the Bridgeport was mined where a reporter asked how many minesweepers were in the Gulf. The officer's replied with a number that matched the exact number of tankers they were tasked to escort.
You just know if you'd talked to the courbet design team, they'd have just reduced the secondary battery range.....
As regards large caliber shore bombardment, I talked to a guy that called in 16 inch fire in 'Nam. The bad guys were charging down a hill, after one broadside there was no charge and no hill!
Yeah, ask those Iraqis Who surrendered to the Wisconsin's RPV rather than take anymore 16"
shells if big gun bombardment is effective.
Repulse and Renown originally had a six inch belt.Post war, Repulse had the six inch belt removed and a nine inch belt substituted.The original six inch belt was then fitted on top of the new belt, leading to the elimination of the lower row of portholes.Renown was also fitted with a nine inch belt in the early 1920's, however the six inch belt wasn't re fitted, so she retained both rows of portholes,even after reconstruction.
My grandfather joined the navy after Pearl Harbor in his mid-50s. He had extensive marine construction experience in Florida. His rank was chief carpenters made in the Seabees. He stayed there long enough for my father to join him to attend the University of Hawaii.
Up to 1914 the British railway company Great Eastern Railway (GER), which served Norfolk, Suffolk and Essex, painted their passenger locomotives royal blue. But when war broke out the Royal Navy requisitioned is paint which meant that the passenger locomotive were left in their undercoat paint scheme which, oddly, was battleship grey.
To the best of my knowledge the Germans never fired on a GER locomotive believing it to be a Royal Navy warship. Nor, I believe, was any Royal Navy warship not fired on in the mistaken belief that for some reason a GER locomotive was out in the middle of the North Sea.
Mr. Drach,
I regularly and thoroughly enjoy all of your shows you create here for us. Your knowledge is extremely impressive and that is a vast understatement, my good sir! Thank you so much! I am so glad I stumbled across your show whilst perusing the youtubes. Please, keep it up, good sir!
Cheers from the Pacific Northwestern USA!
P.S. = Please do an episode involving history surrounding one or more of the USS Boise ships/submarines (I forget how many there were, I think 1 of each?). Thank you, cheers!
@@MarkJoseph81 I think he talks about one in his Brooklyn class video.
Thank you, Drachinifel.
For 3 hours of stuff
We hava a lot to thank Drach for! 👌
Hello, USN vet here, can offer (a more informed guess) insight on the aye/aye aye difference. Still colored by my personal experience, might be different across different ships/with different leadership.
"Aye aye" tended to be used in response to a specific order with no ambiguity, either a very short one or one where the given order was explicit and self-evident. "Sweep this deck up".
"Aye" was used in the context of "[read back a complex instruction], aye, Sir/Ma'am". For example, "check the gauges in space X and report back with what they say" response "Check the gauges in space X, aye, Sir". For example, I wasn't in Deck Department/really on the bridge, but I believe standard verbiage for courses to the helmsman would be something like "make my course 040, aye, Sir."
It wasn't really codified, and I think specifically "aye, aye" was technically always correct, but as you said, it came down to a brevity thing, especially with read-back type stuff as described. And again, this was only my experience, might have been different for other people.
Typhoon Cobra was actually quite accurately located and forecast about ten hours before it got to the Third Fleet. The problem with the reports of the storm were twofold. The first was the reports came from the Army Air Force forecasting center in Saipan. There was the usual interservice rivalry that tended to downgrade AAF forecasts compared to that from USN forecasters. The USN didn't have a forecast center like the AAF. Observation were reported ship to ship, and aerographer's mates were expected to create their own weather map. That meant that each ship or squadron depended on the reports and forecasts of other ships without ever getting an overview of all the reports.
The second problem was AAF reports and warnings were issued using different codes and radio frequencies than USN weather reports. That meant USN radio operators had to monitor these "foreign" frequencies and then had to accurately transcribe details like the long/lat of the storm, That of course didn't happen, so there were multiple reports of the location of the storm, and no one knew which one was accurate.
All of this was bad enough, but the size and speed of Cobra made things even worse. Cobra was only about 65 miles across compared to the usual several hundred for a Pacific typhoon. It was also moving at 25 to 30 mph compared to a more typical 10-15 mph, and had peak winds of 170-180 mph compared to the usual 100-110 mph. This meant that the usual "seaman's weather eye" only recognized that a typhoon was bearing down on them about four hours before the storm hit. Halsey's orders about what ships were to do were also inconsistent. He'd issue one order that ships should scatter and then another one ordering the destroyers to stay close to the oilers so they could refuel as soon as the weather calmed down. Halsey was totally out of the loop when it came to Cobra. The first US ship to sink was USS _Spruance_ at 1110. Halsey had no idea any ships had been sunk until about 0215 the next morning. To be fair, no one knew how violent and fast moving Cobra was, and Halsey assumed that ti was just a garden variety typhoon. So many ships had their radio equipment or antennas destroyed that it was many hours before surviving ships with equipment that still worked could string emergency antennas and report the situation.
The upside from all this carnage was the Navy finally recognizing how poor their forecasting system was for Pacific typhoons. This led to the establishment of what today is the USN's Joint Typhoon Warning Center, generally recognized as the premier tropical storm warning center today.
Thanks. Useful.
@@WildBillCox13 You're welcome. Weather, particularly tropical weather, has been one of my hobbies for almost 60 years. Ironically, Halsey sailed his task force directly into another typhoon (now known as Typhoon Connie) in June, 1945. Connie was actually a worse storm than Cobra, but some of the lessons learned in the earlier storm helped Task Force 38 survive in a battered condition but with no ships lost. Only 8 sailors lost their lives compared to 760 from Cobra. There was even more accurate forecasting about Connie, but many of those forecasts were held up awaiting decoding and didn't reach Halsey and Admiral McCain. the task force commander until it was too late. Many of the ships hove to and put out their sea anchors before being hit, others ballasted their near empty fuel tanks with salt water. That stopped the fatal yawing and heaving that caused the loss of many ships during Cobra. Halsey wouldn't allow either action during Cobra since it would take his ships out of action for too long.
Halsey was once more subject to a court of inquiry about his orders for the task force. The blame for sailing into Connie was placed, somewhat unfairly, on the shoulders of Halsey and McCain. If not for Halsey's heroic status among the American people, he probably would have been relieved of command. McCain, who was also Halsey's chief of staff during Cobra, received no such consideration, and was relieved of command on July 15. A worn out sailor with many medical problems, McCain passed away from a heart attack on September 6, 1945, just four days after the surrender ceremony in Tokyo Ba,y at the age of 61.
@@sarjim4381 I am again and again struck by that photo of the guys in that carrier's gun tubs close enough to the waves to soak a mop in them. And you say Connie was worse? Sheesh!
You must mean USS Spence, not Spruance, which wouldnt exist until the early 70s.
@@WildBillCox13 I know. I've been a pleasure sailor for decades, but that picture still terrifies me. Connie's waves were actually measured by a seabee crew on one of the transports while the waves during Cobra were only estimated. There were three waves taller than 70 feet, with the tallest being a few tenths less than 75 feet. Saying Connie was worse than Cobra was probably the wrong way to out it. Connie was just better documented as being possibly worse.
Up until quite recently (1950's), stage workers often had a background as sailors, because there is a lot of pulling ropes backstage, and consequently a lot of rigging and splicing, so a former sailor would just fit in perfectly.
I don't know a thing about the topic of these posts nor do I have a particular interest in the subject. Yet I find myself repeatedly captivated by the excellent narration, detail, and breadth of knowledge. Always enjoyable listening. UA-cam presentations would be greatly improved if they demonstrated even half the preparation and ability. Great job.
A bad captain can be fatal but a bad executive officer is even more disastrous. Every department on the ship will be effectively destroyed
Agreed.
On surface ships i had some great captains in submarines i got the worst posible the second officer got us out of trouble several times.
Well then just let everybody play executive officer.
Lesser of two evils
....and far more interesting to watch
The USS Des Moines led a ceremonial task force into Lake Michigan in 1959 to honor the opening of the St Laurence Seaway. She was larger than some of the early Dreadnaughts.
Update: my memory fails after 60 years. The cruiser was not the Des Moines but the Baltimore class USS Macon. What was truly impressive was the number of ships involved in Operation Inland Seas.
Here is the order of battle:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Inland_Seas
I'd love to see a cruiser on the Great Lakes.
@@shanepatrick4534 The USS St. .Paul came to Duluth shortly before being decommissioned. There was a effort to make her a museum ship there but no group really took hold to get the funding toegether.
Regarding weather forecasting during the age of sail, a number of rhymes were devised to help seamen recognize certain weather patterns. These included: "When the wind moves against the sun, trust it not for back it will run" and "Mackerel sky and mares' tails [referring to the cloud formations that often preceded a storm] make tall ships carry small sails."
The naming of storms actually began in WW2 at the weather section of the 20th Airforce on Tinian.
Hello Drach, a bit of additional info regarding Polish Navy in 1939. Yes, it didn't fight the Soviets in the Baltic, you were right on that. But you missed few reasons (or rather, you were uncertain).
1. Soviet Navy never intended to fight surface forces - entire Polish coast (for the record, it was less than 100 km) was Germany for the taking (Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact made it clear), so Soviets had no businnes in going there.
2. After the 17th of September, Commander-in-Chief of the armed forces issued an order that strictly forbidden any hostile acts towards Red Army, with the only exception being retaliation of fire (also urged all army units on the east to retreat towards Romania. Some of that units got by sea to France and continued fighting from there). And I believe it applied to the Navy as well which in turn meant that polish submarines (yep, there were 5 of them, 2 got to GB - "Wilk" and "Orzeł", 3 were interned in Sweden) when they were freed from their disasterous initial positions were not allowed to attack Soviets even if they wanted.
3. There is an "incident"involving 2 Russian ships "Metalist" and "Pionier" - when the Soviets claimed that an unknown submarine (which was supposed to be "Orzeł" after it escaped from Tallin) were attacked ("Metallist" sunk) but it's either complete propaganda fake or a set-up by Russians themselves in a political "negotiations" with Estonian goverment which led to Soviet ocuppation of Estonia (being a Baltic State always sucks when there's a big, angry Russia next to you).
4. The only possible way of a Polish Navy fighting Soviets could occur, ironically, on land. Poland in 1939 had a small force of river flotillas of which at least one was stationed in Soviet occupation zone (modern Pinsk, Belarus). But as far as I'm aware none shots were fired and sailors were incorporated into nearby land units and retreated to Romania.
BTW Some time ago you said something about making a detailed video regarding "Orzeł" and it's adventure and I would love to see it. Yes, I'm a Pole and I love that story. Second favourite is the battle of Ushant. Man, i gotta become a Patreon to make them real.
Also - love you and your content. I wish all Drydocks would be 3h+, still would watch them.
Awesome!
This popped up on suggested feed and I thought it was someone else so I clicked. You obviously not them.
You sir are filling a niche that I have not seen previously. Detailed technical information about prenuclear naval vessels.
That is if I have the concept of your page correct halfway through this first video I have seen.
Either way, you have earned not only my sub, but my respect!
Point of clarification. At time 21 you said a submarines ballast tanks were internal.
The main ballast tanks on a submarine which are flooded to submerge the boat are not “internal.” They are located outside (fwd and aft) or around the pressure hull (midships). These “soft” tanks are flooded (filled 100%) and open to the sea. Since there is no pressure differential their structure is relatively light weight.
Internally, inside the pressure hull, there are variable ballast tanks (or trim tanks); located fwd, aft, and amidships; where the amount of water in them is adjusted to maintain neutral buoyancy as stores are consumed, weapons are fired, or the sea water density changes. The fwd and aft trim tanks are used to put the boat on an even keel (zero bubble). These “hard” tanks are filled to less than 100%, see full sea pressure, and are very rugged.
I think I see what you mean but both your descriptions and Drach's are slightly confusing.
Certainly, it would be easier to use a general purpose diagram.
The trim tanks rigidity depends on the ship and how they are filled and emptied. If compressed air is used to empty them then they need to be pressure rated. If they are pumped then they can be just rated at ambient pressure inside the submarine.
Hello Drach. With regards to large seagoing warships operating on the Great Lakes, it should be noted that the St. Lawrence Seaway was not built until the 1950's, so no cruisers, Treaty or otherwise, would be making their way upriver. All of the ships of the line and smaller vessels which fought on the Great Lakes in the War of 1812 were built on the shores of Lakes Erie and Ontario, or the rivers that flowed into them. Some of these ships were huge, even by seagoing standards.
At 42:48 is me, Gregory Albert! Thanks for answering my question! I do apologize for my multiple questions that were in the livestream version. Was kinda new to the Patreon and kinda got trigger happy...
15:53 "... in case I catch a bad case of stupid".... That is too good, I've gotta find a way to use that in conversation now haha.
Pulling the trigger on a heavy gun loaded with water: high on the list of ways to wind up an amorphous blob on the nearest undemolished surface
Beautiful imagery
Just glad to hear the design contest wasn't forgotten. But I do recall a cruiser design contest, however as mentioned many months ago I may have simply missed that.
In response to the scum of the earth question heres a quote from the period of sail:
"No man will be a sailor who has contrivance enough to get himself into a jail; for being in a ship is being in jail, with a chance of being drowned… A man in jail has more room, better food, and commonly better company." -Dr Samuel Johnson, essayist, biographer, and poet
@CipiRipi00 Well, one has to remember that Dr. Johnson had a talent for the pithy remark, no matter how illogical!
Very nice intro - does make good mood! As always every video comes with a lot of interesting information for the real warship enthusiast!
In WWII the Swiss cut off from the source of most of their coal and needing coal for domestic heating to keep the people from freezing to death in winter the Swiss rail service was forbidden from using coal. While the Swiss mainlines were electrified the still used steam powered switch engines. And for the same reasons that Switzerland couldn't by coal they could not buy new engines. Fortunately while talking around the problem without finding a workable answer they decided to make tea. When the electric kettle whistled giving somebody clue and Switzerland having plentiful hydroelectricity generation converted their switch engines to use electrical heating. It worked well enough that after WWII ended they did not convert them back to coal and replaced them with conventional electric locomotives more on a as soon as convenient rather than as soon as possible basis. Some of the switch engines were sold and reconverted to coal.
You can heat a boiler with electricity but the second law of thermodynamics is, You cannot win. You cannot break even. And you cannot get out of the game.
You won't be able to generate enough steam to make the electric to heat the boiler.
If you wrote a letter to Greta and repeated this, expect a stern postcard in return.
The retired WW2 Destroyer Escort USS Slater, DE-766 is a museum warship that is moored in the Hudson River at Albany, NY. It recently just sailed under its own power down to a ship yard in Staten Island, NY for some heavy maintenance and then sailed back. It's dimensions are such that it could sail through the nearby canal lock at the Federal Dam in Troy, NY. This would allow it to enter both the Erie and the Champlain canal systems, with access to the Great Lakes at Buffalo or the St. Lawrence River.
U.S. Marine here (‘06 to ‘10 vintage) - in boot camp the phrase ‘aye, sir!’ would earn you a shouting and maybe some extra time on the quarterdeck from a Drill Instructor along with an admonishment of “It’s AYE-AYE, SIR!!” whilst getting sprayed with spittle (Pre-COVID).
When you get to ‘the fleet’ (Did 4 years in, spent 0 hours on a ship) the phrase ‘aye sir!’ is considered to be close enough. It gets the point across and is generally acceptable. The only time it’s not is when the superior’s being an ass and insisting on the full version, you’re being extremely formal, or joking/sarcastically.
And another 3hrs of ships? Drach, you spoil us.
Draco snared me with his eloquence and humor. I came here with knowledge of boats on an order of the guy in The Shipping News who buys the plywood box-boat. The education and the commentary are archival-worthy. It is a joy to listen and a joy to read the commentary.
The engineering and creativity people put into such things never ceases to amaze me.
With reference to the "worn-out-gun-in-wartime-question": Prinz Eugen got the barrel liners of her 20,3s changed as late as December 1944. She had fired nearly 2000 rounds on advancing soviet troops until then.
December, 1945? 1945???
@@ronnelson7828 Well obviously by that time it was a US-flagged ship crewed by Nazi zombies supporting Steiner's chemical warfare base against Dragovich's assault
Sorry, as late as *1944* of course
Be a man
fix the glitch
and remember
life's a b!tch
00:25:07 The US Army is working on binary liquid propellant for their next-gen tank artillery which could translant to a larger calibre Naval weapon: So just insert the shell normally then pump in the propellant behind it. Unless the Navy ever get the railgun tech to a practical proposition which is much cooler (The always unwritten specification for all weapons procurement.)
lol. Presently, Railgun + Ship = Defying the laws of spacial geometry.
Liquid propellent has been looked at for a very long time. The main difficulty seems to be in stabilizing it over time and against sudden shock.
@@WildBillCox13hence the “binary” part.
1:05:50 This method is described in the novel "Das Boot" by Lothar-Günther Buchheim as well. At least in the french submarine ports (Brest, Lorient, St. Nazaire, La Rochelle/La Pallice, Bordeaux), Sperrbrecher were used to clear the approach paths for U-Boats - quite often, the RAF would use planes to lay single mines in known U-Boat paths. Buchheim also states that the bridge crews of the Sperrbrecher were standing on trampolins so that they wouldn't break their bones if they hit a mine. However, I don't know if this is true or not.
I read this as well, and it actually makes sense.
Small drifting mine fields laid just outside known submarine pens by small watercraft or aircraft at night would be a threat to submarines.
Drfiting mines can not be cleared the usual way, as the commonly used method relays on the mine's anchor cable.
There would however only be a small number of mines. Thus the chance of catching one is relatively low. Escorting the prescious submarine with a relatively expendable vessel capable of actually surviving an unlucky hit, sounds like a cost-effective counter to this particular threat.
In the USN "aye, aye" was understood to mean, "I understand and obey," or at least that what I was taught.
I'm beginning to think the maker of all these fantastic and wonderful video's is wholly book learned and wouldn't know what the school of hard Knox is even if it hit him in the ass. But he does seem to be a good natured man. Edit: I think I'm having a senior moment, in other words I am cranky!
@@PeterDad60 Ask him in his question section.
@@kyle857 Forgive me, but where would that be? Not a bad idea.
Same for USMC. "Yes" is a proper response to a question, while aye aye is the proper response to a command.
USN aye is also a response to acknowledge that a message is understood even if a subordinate watch station is letting the Officer of the Deck know something. Bridge, CCS, started main fuel transfer. - response: started main fuel transfer, bridge aye.
Regarding weather forecasts, modern meteorology still relies on plenty of ground- or air-based measurements. This can be data from commercial aircraft & ships, remote buoys, weather balloons or regular weather stations (sometimes these are remote measurements, but many are still crewed). Satellites are getting better but can't measure everything.
Satellite can not measure air pressure. That requires some sort of sensor at the location whether being on the ground, in aircraft or weather balloon.
The role of satellites in maritime meteorological forecasting is not simply in the collection of data - they also distribute the data. Throughout the age of sail it wouldn't matter a jot how many ground stations existed.
Not saying you're wrong, just that your reply seems to be making a false assumption about what Drachinifel said. (Though he was wrong - claiming that pre-modern forecasting was 'more complex' was absurd & I doubt he'd ever repeat it, the sense is tho that for the end user it is more complex, because in the AoS the end user is also the provider.)
Thank you for the Story on Admiral McCain. It was fun but really touching. :-)
The Deutschland class were never built with a view to countering the British battlecruisers . The reasons for the design of the Deutschlands was that Germany was restricted under the Versailles Treaty to “pre-Dreadnought” ships with 11” guns and any replacements could not be armed with any larger calibre than 11” and had to be within a 10,000 ton displacement. Thus the Deutschlands were designed as a modern version of a pre 1905 battleship . As such it was the best they could do under the circumstances.
I thought the idea of the Deutschland class was a ship more powerful than any cruiser and faster than most battleships that would be assigned to convoy/sea lane protection duty. A concept that had 2 flaws. A cruiser squadron aggressively handled could go toe-to-toe with any single Deutschland. Any convoy that was that important to have a reinforced escort group is likely to be covered by other formations in support like many of the Arctic conveys were against the Tirpitz. Once true fast battleships were built the concept was dead.
@@washingtonradio Yes - that is exactly the reasoning. Build ships within the treaty requirement (with a bit of poets licence) that could fight any enemy medium forces and run away from most of the heavier forces whilst being a threat to any convoys covered by light forces.. But the main point is that these ships were primarily designed within the treaty requirements and were never designed to fight British or any other heavy units. Thus Drach's point about Renown/Hood etc is not relevant.
The alternative would have been to build a 10,000 ton monitor (slow, heavy armor) for use in the Baltic. The Deutchlands were an innovative design (all welded, etc.) to stay within Versailles Treaty limits while still being able to "show the flag" worldwide.
Don't forget Oklahoma was also a vertical triple expansion engine ship
Also scheduled for decommissioning and scraping. she was scheduled to leave Pearl for her final fate January 6th, 1942.
Drach: Projectiles designed to travel under water such as torpedoes or......
Me: Or what!? No way he's got anything else. It's torpedoes. That's all.
Drach: ... DIVING SHELLS
What an amazing example of dedication to a segment of history, with a healthy dose of english humor to make it all a bit more palatable. Well done.!!
I read in Sam Morison’s book “The Two-Ocean War” an account of the battleship Nevada supporting the landings on Iwo Jima. While it was firing its assigned barrage, it encountered a blockhouse behind the beachhead that its secondary battery couldn’t dent.
Enter Nevada’s fourteen inch main guns. Job well done, but it also blasted all the sand and camouflage off of a second blockhouse, which no one had known about.
An hour later, this second blockhouse started causing trouble, and Nevada thusly blew it sky high with fourteen inch AP projectiles. Finally, the Nevada’s gun directors observed a Japanese artillery piece firing on the beach from a cave on the side of Mt. Suribachi. Her main battery opened up in direct fire mode, and two fourteen inch projectiles blew out the cave and blasted the Japanese gun halfway down the mountainside.
It goes to your point that some targets just need to be hit with something bigger than a five inch gun.
I was in the area when the U.S.S.Hull tested the 8 inch gun. The capt. Of the Hull hated it. It caused bad structural damage first time it about blew itself self off the ship.
Raises a question could a modern frigate using just its auto 5 incher take on one or more ww1 dreadnoughts?
I doubt that any gun in the 5inch range, even if equipped with AP shells, could have penetrated the armour of any Dreadnought, even an Indefatigable class battlecruiser. Damage to the superstructure is obviously possible, but hardly likely to be fatal.
@@alecblunden8615 The armour penetration may not have been sufficient but the explosive shrapnel could incapacitate enough of the crew that any fires set would burn through the ship until the magazines detonate. Eventually. If it didn't run out of ammunition before the crew are massacred. Admittedly I don't know whether WW1 era dreadnoughts were sufficiently protected against fires to prevent something like that from occurring.
Alternatively, the command staff would be decimated by the shelling and that might render the ship incapable of fighting.
@@errorcrj110 Dreadnought herself had a 4-11" armour belt. 5"HE would simply spoil the paintwork. The Indefatigable class battlecruisers, designed to hunt and kill cruisers, not fight in the battleline, had 4-6". Result ditto. And that assumes the capital units were doing nothing during the time when their guns could reach and those of the destroyers could not. The only destroyer weapon which could hurt a Dreadnought was the torpedo, and any destroyer trying to use them would have to cope with the screen of cruisers and destroyers.. No destroyer gun could cause more than superficial damage and magazines are usually well defended against fire.
The best part of this whole video is the "it's a pipe bomb yay" quote
RE Wellington's comment about his men being the scum of the Earth: Another factor to be taken into account is how recruitment differed between Army and Royal Navy. While empressment was used sometimes by the RN they by and large preferred to rely on Volunteers, and in most cases generally were able to fill their ranks with volunteers. The RN only relied on pressed men if they had no other choice in the matter. There are many accounts of ship Captains refusing to take pressed men aboard, preferring to wait till they reached the next port and see if there were volunteers available to fill up the crew roster. While it is certainly true men *were* pressed into service in the RN, it is vastly overstated these days (and even at the time). By far the great majority of men serving in the RN were volunteers.
The Army however was a whole different ball game. While sailors were generally well regarded and had viable skills, soldiers, not so much. As a result the Army often had huge issues filling its ranks of common soldiery (not so much officers). Further, the Army did not have enything like the same powers of empressment as the RN. As a result they relied heavily on the Justice system for recruits, during times of war criminals upon sentencing would often be given a choice, a term of service in the Army, or imprisonment (or worse). Given the nature of prisons at the time (and of course that 'worse' bit) many would chose the term of service in the army. As a result, in comparison to the RN the Army had a large proportion of petty and not so petty criminals in its ranks.
Even the pressed men in the Royal Navy also were already civilian sailors, so they at least had some basic level of competency.
That has always been the case. Hard men are needed to fight wars.
Hey Drach. Dont forget when the Designers of a couple of American Pre Dreadnoughts put 8 in guns turrets on top of the main gun turrets. Not only once, but twice. Even tho they found out the first time it didn't work.
1:45:30 If your barrel is iced up, just fire the gun with no shell in it. The flash from the powder will clear the ice up front, and have the side effect of warming to barrel to some extent.
You sir deserve more subscribers and views. You do have a knack of satisfying my naval cravings. Hoping for more videos and more drydocks sir!
Regarding shore bombardment- Defilade fire, generally speaking, is going to be more effective by a large gun as opposed to a small one. Defilade fire is where the gun is treated much like a mortar- the guns are elevated pretty much to the stops and shell are lobbed into the air; the idea being that the shell will go over any and whatever obstacle is between the ship and the desired target. Guns of less than 6" can do this but are only effective at fairly close distance to the shore- and typically tall obstacles like hills and such aren't all that close the the water and so would usually be the guns to fire star shells to light up the beach. The battleship guns have the range to lob shells at hard targets several miles inland AND go over the obstacles between- though this type of fire is the most difficult to calculate and is thus very chancy at best when it comes to accuracy.
And that's what spotter planes were supposed to be used for. When it worked, it was awesome.
That can't be a picture of USS Boise in the discussion of magazine explosions, because it doesnt have the number 3 forward turret. Probably should have been given the hit she survived at Cape Esperance in 1942.
Well I now know what I am listening to while working in the barn today.
I do the same, at the moment we are sprucing up the house for sale, and this is what i listen to,
Thank you- great episode, as always.👍👍👍
Buoyancy has three basic states.
1 Positive. Relating to items that float, eg/ Operational Warship. surfaced Submarine etc.
2. Neutral. A boat (Submarine) travelling below the surface at a constant depth.
3. Negative. A Sunken Ship or Sub resting on the sea bed.eg/ Hood, Bismark, Titannic etc.
This also applies to anything immersed in water, even Human bodies.
Submarines are a special case that use all three states of Buoyancy during operation. This is achieved by filling and emptying their Buoyancy Tanks with a controlled fill/combination of water and air combination. Importany to note that this will not affect the weight of water displaced by the submarine and that is hiw its Buoyancy state can be changed
You can experience all three states of Buoyancy by taking a Scuba Diving course!.
Thanks for a great Episode, Drach, which included stuff that penetrates and goes Bang
WW 2 my grandfather, retired wo1 (Regimental Sargent-magor) . Managed 4 guns, salvaged from Pearl Harbour sunken ship as coastal defence in New Zealand.
well done being respectful in answering the starter boilers question.you are a class act.
@1.09 SO GLAD you said with the info they had AT THAT TIME!!!
Love to see you do a piece on pre-atomic sunken warship steel “salvage”. It is an intensely fascinating subject.
I herd about that... crazy to think that radioactive particles have gotten in the steel and make it not as good .. imagine what it’s doing to humans and our fragile DNA
derek Rohan Thus far my understanding is- apparently they need "low background radiation steel" for facilities that use incredibly sensitive atomic measuring apparatuses seems the less background interference the more accurate the instruments can be on incredibly small measurements, these disappearing ships have boggled me for the last few years
What's even crazier is these same particles are you and I ,makes you think
@@Electriceye1984bySam yeah I herd the same thing.. crazy
@@Electriceye1984bySam exactly
Regarding which was more devastating a magazine hit or a turret hit, you only have to look back to the Iowa in April 1989. The #2 turret blew up, but the ship was never in danger of sinking. My cousin was part of the first damage control party that entered the turret after the explosion.
Good morning Patrick, love the show and all the hard work every one must do. Thank you.
Almost 3 and a half hours... getting a BIG mug of coffee..
(With Brown Milk)
Bovril with Sherry is good as well.
Ahoy D, Even alongside if a ship pays marks of respect by dipping it is the duty watch (who are supposed to monitor ships and boats nearby) will return the complement at least in the RCN and in my experience (36 years RCN recently retired) most western navies do the same. It is sometimes missed but unless a ship is flying "out of routine" it is supposed to.
Thank you for all your efforts in producing these wonderful video's.
I don't know how you manage it while keeping the peace with your wife but keep up the great work and pass on my thanks to your lady for putting up with all the time these take.
Aye is used when repeating an order back, All ahead full. All ahead full Aye. Aye Aye is an acknowledgement of an order received without a repeat back. When receiving orders that require repeat backs (such as on the bridge) you end it with Aye. In terms of dipping the ensign, I only ever saw that done 1 time in port and it was a pre-arranged time/place for an admirals retirement ceremony. He was passing our moored ship on a yacht during his ceremony. The thing to keep in mind is when we are moored we move our ensign from the mast to the bow of the ship (US navy mind you) and its a much smaller ensign. For the ceremony we moved the ensign back to the mast for this one occasion.
For more information on the RCN escort fleet and the men who sailed it, I would recommend reading The Corvette Navy by James B. Lamb
Your apparent glee at being asked a technical engineering question was very gratifying. 😄
Perhaps the most improved night fighters of WWII have to be the USN. At the beginning of the war they were totally incompetent, reference Savo Island. By late 1943, along with the concurrent improvement in the MK 15 torpedoes, American destroyers were deadly at night surface combat, reference Battle of Cape St. George, Battle of Vella Gulf and of course Battle of Surigao Straight. After mid-1943, the Japanese were totally owned at night combat.
Another point, Drach included air combat. The RN was far ahead in night air combat throughout WWII. But if you are going to talk above the water, you have to also consider submarine combat. The U-Boats were deadly night fighters before the widescale adoption of radar. After fixing the MK 14 and with the installation of, I think, the SJ radar, American Submarines were excellent at night combat. In addition to many merchant ships, the Battle of the Palawan Passage where two heavy cruisers were sunk and another heavily damaged, Sealion's sinking of Kongo and Archerfish sinking the Shinano were all night attacks.
I can’t believe I paid attention to this entire discussion. I couldn’t stop!
"Anything would fit if you shove it hard enough, battleship shell included."
Very well informed and likewise impressive
w.r.t. shells in different guns of the same caliber, I think it's important to clarify that what you said is mostly specific to guns with separate changes and shells, as used for main-battery guns. For the fixed and semifixed ammunition used in interwar and WW2 secondary battery guns, the breech has to be designed to accommodate the cartridge, so there would be much less flexibility in those cases.
As far as current warships on the Great Lakes, I’ve seen a few of the Freedom Class LCS’s sailing through. The Indianapolis, St. Louis, and currently Cooperstown have been built on and undergo sea trials in Lake Michigan before heading out to sea.
Drach, would it be possible to have a 5 minute guide to sailors? My thought would be to have a detailed look at what a given position on a particular type of ship would do on a typical day and in a typical engagement. I ask because ships are on a certain level big grey boxes with a captain who gives orders and SOMEHOW the ship does what he wants.
That "Specialist Athlete" referred to the Specialist A, Athletic Instructor. This was petty officer rank that only lasted from 1942-1944, replaced by the Physical Training Instructor specialist position. In addition to these specialists keeping the crew fit and healthy. the various professional coaches for the ship's teams, like baseball and boxing, fell into this position.
Petty officer, or warrant officer?
@@dropdead234 Good question. Their pay grade was the same as equivalent petty officers but they were also called out as enlisted ranks in the table of organization. They are not called warrant officers, but it seems like that's what they were anyway.
it is my understanding they created the rank because new recruits were refusing to learn to swim under a civilian instructors. But giving them a military rank made it orders that could not be refused and it was extended out to the fleet. It goes back to a story I heard about the swimming program. The Navy recruited John DeBarbadilo to set up its swimming program right after Pearl Harbor. He had organized the beginnings of the YMCA swimming league and is the coach credited with creating Butterfly as a separate stroke. He designed and ran the Navy's swimming program which the Army later adopted. Because of his Italian background and civilian status, he had trouble and the Navy brass who recruited him stepped in to create the ranks and make it mandatory. The program he created is still the basis used today for recruits and was based on teaching them competitive swimming methods that are far more effective. His program was adopted by the YMCA and many others as well for kids and still is the basis for learning to swim in the US. I had the privilege of swimming for him in the 70's and I still remember what he taught me. And yes he had the Italian temper and no one in the pool wanted to face it!
This addresses several questions,
(1) Japanese post-1925 APC shells of the 1928 Type 88 (a modified form of the British 15" Mark VA -- post-Jutland APC shell design bought from the British after WWI for all Japanese battleships/battle-cruisers then in service plus its 8"-gunned cruisers -- except the Japanese KEPT LYDDITE, WHICH THEY CALL SHIMOSE) and 1931 Type 91 APC Projectiles changed them in a set of unique ways to get a stable nose-first underwater "diving" trajectory:
(a) They sliced off the upper end of the AP cap -- upper end of the projectile nose in the uncapped 155mm )6.1") and 203mm (8") Type 91 projectiles -- where it was 0.69-caliber wide, replacing the cap/nose tip -- called a "Cap Head" -- with originally a cap tip shaped like a flattened cone with beveled edge (155mm, capped 356mm (14"), and capped 410mm (16") sizes) or later a longer blunt point nose (203mm) or finally a thick hemispherical cap tip (460mm YAMATO shells). (By WWII, only the 155mm YAMATO Class secondary guns still used this ammo.) Below the flat lower nose/cap, the nose was identical to the lower nose of a Mark VA shell in the Type 88 (copied from the prior non-modified British design used until 1928) or, for the much more streamlined Type 91 AP shells, a medium-length truncated cone shape. The Cap Head was held on only by being threaded to the inside of the lower windscreen, where it was threaded to the lower nose/cap, with a weakening groove cut at the joint so that any impact whatsoever would tear off both the windscreen and the Cap Head. Below 45 degrees obliquity, the impact force would hold the Cap Head in place and it would act like the tip of the projectile nose/cap as long as the pressure lasted or the Cap Head remained intact, but at a higher obliquity the impact would knock the Cap Head sideways, regardless of where the windscreen went, and only the flat lower nose/cap would be there from then on. The purpose was to allow the projectile to dive nose-first in a stable trajectory into the ocean at any angle of fall down to 7 degrees, though the optimum angle of fall range was 25-17 degrees (86-87 degrees obliquity). The flat face would form a large cavitation bubble surrounding the shell and it would stay moving nose first with rather little sideways forces other than gravity downward and the difference in water pressure at the top and bottom surface of the truncated flat nose and shell body upward to cancel that gravity drop out, when possible. The truncated width of the nose was to minimize drag to allow the shell to move at high speed for a long time until finally slowed down to the point where downward forces due to gravity could not be resisted any m9re. This distance was found to be roughly 200 calibers (about 02 m (101 yards) for the YAMATO shell) before the shell started to curve downward to pass under the target ship in the 17-25 degrees angle of fall range ( giving roughly a constant depth of 15-30 calibers), with a shallower depth up to 7,5 calibers at about 12 degrees perhaps being effects, but hitting at above 30 degrees would cause the shell to never curve upward enough to hit the target unless it did it at close range directly, just like a non-Japanese AP shell with a retained windscreen. The idea was to hit the enemy ship in the side below its thick side belt armor and, in effect, make the enemy ship much wider in the direction toward the Japanese firing ship, reducing the effect of range error significantly at the optimum ranges.
(b) To get that far underwater, the fuze delay had to be vastly extended to 0.2 seconds for the Type 88 shells (only 100 calibers underwater motion allowed), 0.08 second for the 155mm Type 91 AP shells, and 0.4 second for the larger Type 91 AP shells, since the Japanese never thought of the US Navy AP projectile 1937 Mark 11 Base Detonating Fuze with its spring-cocked firing pin held in place by deceleration forces (water or armor) -- due to mass production problems, this fuze was replaced by the superior Mark 21 Base Detonating Fuze, which did not have the paused delay, but could be reliably used up to 65 degrees obliquity impact. That Mark 11 BDF design would have allowed no fuze firing at all until the shell had slowed down a lot, so it could have been tuned for the complete 200 calibers. The super-long delay in these Japanaes shells did mean that many hits acted merely like cannon balls or, if the shell broke up during penetration, flaming cannon ball chunks.
(c) Due to the tradition of "the mighty Shimose (remember, British Lyddite and French Melanite, which the British and French replaced after WWI due to it being so sensitive that it prevented any fuze delay being used after an impact with heavy side armor) shells" during the Russo-Japanese War, the Japanese leadership refused to tolerate replacing Shimose, even with the diving Type 88 shell. It wasn't until 1931 with the new, high-velocity, boat-tailed Type 91 AP shells with their long-conical-windscreens to get maximum possible range that the Japanese Navy leaders finally begrudgingly gave in and allowed tri-nitro-anisol, called by them Type 91 Explosive, to be used instead of Shimose. This explosive was very similar in power to Shimose but could BARELY be cushioned to remain intact after penetrating heavy armor, but only if up to 40% of the cavity was filled with inert plaster, wood, and aluminum cushioning, which kind of defeats the whole idea, doesn't it?
The Japanese tapered flat nosed post-1928 AP shells showed that a flat nose, when tapered for minimum drag, could have its underwater upward curvature force due to the drag difference at the top nose/side of the shell and the bottom nose/side of the shell, allowing, the shell to ballance this with gravity to keep a roughly level path nose-first underwater parallel with the surface for a long time when moving at high speed.
All of this stemmed from one powerful 14" AP shell underwater hit on the cancelled battleship TOSA's hull during live projectile impact tests just after they got the new British Mark VA designs. Somebody with a lot of pull in the Japanese Navy immediately got "a bee in his bonnet" about this and bent all other requirements for AP shells to comply.
Obviously, Japanese projectile desing requirement creators were not quite in our universe...
(CONTINUED ABOVE)
I enjoy the Drydock episodes but know I have listened to a complete one. I put in one earbud and take off glasses and proceed to enjoy until sleep creeps up. Usually wake up when earbud tells me battery is low, long after show is over
Another major Fleet Action from Drach.
Hurrah!
thank you, another great video
When you were discussing retrofitting ships, I immediately thought of radar. Certain submarines had to have their conning tower removed and replaced with one that was large enough for a Captain to fight his ship from that tower instead of in what amounted to two different locations on different decks. This meant adding room for radar gear, moving sonar gear from a lower deck to the tower, and the addition of an electronic TBD computer and display. None of this gear was what you could call "mineature" in nature.
The conning tower modification was significant in that it involved cutting onto the pressure hull and radar specifically had a very visible antenna rotating mounted to it.
"Plug and play" would have been nice but those were the days of vacuum tubes and that kind of gear is bulky. Even with an enlarged conning tower, when at battle stations, the maneuvering watch was crammed into it. I don't necessarily crave "the good old days".
Sounds like the same principle as .357 Magnum Bullets vs. .38 Special. A .357 Magnum revolver can fire .38 Special. But because the case is longer. You can't fire a .357 Magnum in a .38 Special revolver.
I am not an engineer, but I studied a but the issues of water and air, and the shape of things that are going through them. So regarding what you said:
1. water becomes like concrete when you hit them. that's how you make a stone jump on it. But its because the stone hits a volume of more condensed material. This is the same for space vehicles. When a space vehicle enters the atmosphere, it feels the same effect like a stone hitting the water. If it hits the atmosphere at a wrong angle, the air will behave like concrete and the space vehicle will bounce back to spoace.
2. Regarding the shape of cannon shells and torpedos - Shells are pointy because go above the speed of sound. Compare supersonic jets like fighters and subsonic jets like airliners. The airlines have a round nose like a torpedo and fighter have a pointy nose like a shell. In general, water and air behave the same since they are both fluids. You can see footage from 100 years ago when engineers conducted aerodynamic tests of airships like the Zeppelin in water tanks.
If I got something wrong, I would like to know more
Hey, US Marine, here. About Aye vs AyeAye:
I've never heard anyone unironically say "Aye-aye," but it's not incorrect-just out of fashion because it's an extra word and ain't nobody got time for that. As for when to say "Aye/Aye-aye, yes, or no," "Aye" is equivalent to "I understand and will carry out the order," where "yes/no" are answers to questions and just imagine if someone told you to do something and you said "yes" outside of a military context; just sounds weird. I don't know if the Army or Air Forces (at least in the US) use "aye," but I'd bet they don't bc it's a naval tradition and I'd bet that the confusion to "yes" vs "aye" is a result of other services using them interchangeably.
Concerning why there is an "aye" vs an "Aye-aye," the military has a habit of repeating things multiple times and I don't doubt that there is some influence of that in here.