A year and a 1/2 ago before the 200cc version became available I got a set of the 175cc versions. I was hoping Eric could do the work for me but it sounded like he was backlogged and I would have had to wait a while so I ended up getting another shop to port them for me. The shop I chose had a CNC program which opened them up to 205cc’s. I built a factory stock “appearing” 406 for my 69 Camaro. With these heads ported, a smaller solid roller cam and factory Z28 intake it Dyno’d 520 hp at 5900rpm. Im very happy with the heads and motor so far.
What Compression, did you run it at? That's a lot of hp on a 406 I've seen a 427 sbc only made 625 hp on flywheel. So a 406 making 600+ hp 🤔 not saying it can't be done but .....🤔
@@matthewvarnam4302I just asked him too .. that I didn’t know they made 200cc heads.. n 175cc .. he probably ment to say flow/runner 200 .. ain’t cc the combustion chamber? .. the opening where the valves go..
The best one was GM# 3991492, over the counter replacement for the classic heads with 2.02 and 1.6 and machined for screw in studs and guide plates. Available with straight or angled spark plugs. Bought many sets over the years for many projects. They cost only about $65.00 each bare.
Trick flow possibly copied the 461 head, it's plug was also located closer to the Deck,which put the plug down closer to the dome when applicable. Informative video.
@@dannydurham5716 they may be. Back in the day when I was running dome pistons on pump gas, the 461 would detonate where the 462 and later wouldn't. Later on I found that the angle plug heads were even better. People think they were for more flow, but I think they changed the plug to stave off detonation. Just My thoughts.
I have looked at the Trick Flow heads, ran the numbers as they give on their website and I personally think the only time they may be worth it is when you have NO heads to start with AND you are interested in keeping the stock look. Otherwise, buy some AFR heads and make much better power, especially with a bigger cubic inch engine like the sbc 400 you’re mentioning here that these heads will be on. The Trick Flow heads will definitely be limiting power with that engine. Thanks for the video!👍🏻
On the rocker studs, my Machinest back when I worked retail Auto Parts, would drill through the boss and the stud and pin the press-in rocker studs the heads came with. this was cheaper and most customers went with this mod. They could always mill down the bosses and thread them later, so it didn’t destroy the heads and unless you were building an all out race engine, they worked fine.
I thought about ordering a set from you Eric. However I've been watching them for months as my engine project got put on the back burner for a while and these heads have been hit and miss available for quite a while now. In fact I've been on notification with Summit for about a month now and they aren't expected back in stock until May. Same thing happened last summer, took a few months before they had a few sets to sell. Thanks for the review, been looking forward to that.
Want to see something amazing, go to the Charles Servedio's head porting and flow bench on here. He made a set of swirl port 193 casting heads flow over 300 CFM! The worst flowing sbc production head ever produced, he got more flow than any other factory ported production head has ever gotten! He has a playlist of it and IIRC he hit 300 around the 20 cut video. He did it in stages to see what mod made what. A bunch of short videos wit the progress showing the gains for every change with flow numbers. Who would of thunk the worst sbc production head would have the most potential?🤔😎👍
Max ported head with big 76 cc Combustion chamber Started out 200 horse and big swirl great gas milage now 100 horse Great head to practice porting on I actually cut weight of the head to 30 pounds 193s you port match and get 300 horse 350 Decked too easy 50 60 hours to make 300 cfm Boat anchors lol
@@alonzahanks1182 I thought they were 76cc chambers too but Charlie corrected me, they are actually 65cc chambers from the factory. I did find that on one sight that listed them as 65cc chambers as well. Plus Charlie measured the CCs of one of the chambers and got IIRC 66cc. One CC more than what the factory claims them to be is close enough. If the engine those heads came on had flat top pistons the compression would be what it should be to make power. Without the air flow though would be a recipe for detonation. Unless you duplicate what Charlie did to make 600 plus HP.😎👍
@@itseithergonnaworkoritaint7852 Those are actually 84 85 chevy heads They used up in 96 Suppose its possible for them to be a 305 head like 416 with 184 valves but doughtful 624s come in all shapes and sizes probably milled 12 Thousandths my stock tahoe heads were 176 cc hogged out 2 sets that measured 76 and had 9 to 1 compression because of pistons but were still 175 horse with injection tpi heads they were pretty Ballsy lol probably angle cut if 600 horse engine and for sure would have to be 2 inch valves installed didnt say wasnt impossible Its the early Bowtie engine with porting for roller lifters and drilled and tapped for spider a good base engine to build But because no mass air sensor compression was not all0wed for smog till 96 1 early virson in corvette and Camaro being the LT1 engine with 52 cc chambers in 93 94 but had only 300 ponies
My 71 Z28 350 LT1 had the angle plug double humps. Back in the 80's had it rebuilt and balanced by Wayne Calvert. That thing got scary at high speeds, front would get light. Numbers matching with M22 etc. Just remembering....
Nice video of flow numbers comparison of the 2 heads. Those trick flow heads you just flowed if I remember correctly they flowed better than the world sportsman 2 heads so that neat at least
After weeks of research, I settled on these, for a street 350, because I'm at high elevation, and these flow much better than my Vortecs without giving up any compression, unlike costlier AFR180s.
Awesome comparison, those TFs aren't too bad, definitely out perform the old 186s and with a bit of color and the right valve covers could easily fool most people in your "average" old hotrod.
I had some 186 Heads, Damn they woke up the engine I put them on, had to relocate my Alternator because they didnt have holes and mine, which had been cut, were a bit over 61 cc. You mentioned the 882's off a 400, Well they're not only fairly small chamber but flow better than any Stock Chevy head up to Vortec. The 400 had a huge dish in the pistons, I'd bought a car for the 400 for a race car I had and my trusty Chevy head ID book identified them as the bad.ass heads to start with, you have to put bigger valves in them and if you want a lot of Compression, you've got to cut them but not by much. With Flat tops they're a bit over 9.5:1 so you don't have to cut much, but the chambers ate as big as you can Find. The 882 on 350's were different, the little sideways half point id mark is a bit different, just like the 186 and 461 462 are,, they all have double humps but they're all different. It's the same with 882's off a 400. I had Circle track guys trying to buy my heads offering far more than I had in the whole car I scraped for the engine, Teams and all the extra bits . Tell your buddy, they're different
I took a grinder to a set of cast iron 289 Ford heads and ground 2 humps on the ends. Intake flow improved to 290 cfm @.500 lift and exhaust flow went to 195 cfm @ .500 lift. To hell with installing bigger valves and seats and all that porting and polishing, I'm just going to put humps on the ends and call it good.
Speedway motors have a version as well. no accesories bolt holes, higher raised rocker cover rail, different chamber shape.. they must be popular for the stock look with better performance.. well done...
@@richardfehr1838 Yes, i would say chinese made, no acc blt holes, 180cc and flow figures match Tricflow figures, chamber shape is good..valve jobs are hit and miss..look them up...
In 2019, I put new Trick Flow DHC 175 heads on a 350, and it started consuming oil. Thinking the rings were worn out, I had a new SBC built and used the DHC 175 heads. Despite being new, the heads were rebuilt for go measure. The new motor consumed oil, and everything pointed to the heads. Had the heads professionally rebuilt again, but still burning oil. Finally sent the motor back to the builder for a refresh. The Trick Flow DHC 175 were machined wrong!!! Every time they were rebuilt to OEM specifications. This time the valve guides were measured and were found to be over bored. Oversize valve guide seals fixed the problem. Four summer driving seasons lost. Thousands of dollars spent. All because of bad Trick Flow double-hump heads, new in the box.
I hate to be the one to say this but it is highly unlikely it was the heads. They may have got the blame but things would have to be insanely worn out to cause that. For reference circle track and some boat motors don’t even run oil seals on the guides. They are not overly consuming oil. It was most likely rings.
@@WeingartnerRacing It is difficult to condense all the troubleshooting in to a single post. On motor #2, when I removed the intake, there was a teaspoon of oil on top of the valves in two of four intake ports. The other two ports had their valve open. When that head was removed there was a teaspoon of oil on top of those pistons with the open valves. No carbon on the pistons due to the oil washing them down. This lead to the second rebuild of the heads (which was done be a different shop). When that did not solve it, I continued throwing parts at it - new intake, even a different EFI system. Like you, I concluded it had to be the rings. So the motor came out and went back to the builder. Rings were changed since it was apart. I have those first rings and they are barely worn. This time the shop outsourced the head rebuild to yet another different head shop. Since no other 'smoking gun' was found, they examined the heads with a micrometer and eventually found the issue. Oversize seals fixed the problem. Is it possible the builder lied to me? I suppose. But I did see the oil on top of the valves and pistons myself. Everything kept pointing to the heads, but after two rebuilds I looked elsewhere. Looking back to motor #1, I assumed changing the heads had caused enough of a compression change to take out those rings. In retrospect, that appears to be an incorrect diagnosis as I assumed the Trick Flow heads were properly made. As an aside, the previous heads on motor #1 were original double humps which came on a 350 my dad purchased in 1967. Never touched or rebuilt. Piston #7 was consistently fouling plugs, which led to the project to install the Trick Flow DHC 175 heads.
The factory hi performance double hump heads are easily recognizable by the screw in studs and Gide plates. The chambers around the intake valve are unshrouded so the spacing between the chamber is narrower just like the trcflo
I have a virgin pair of 1968 L79 Corvette heads with 2.02/1.60 valves that do not have screw in studs or guide plates. This engine also has the 1 year only large journal FORGED crank that many will argue was never made.
@@bowtie0069 Screw in studs came out in 69. Your factory 2.02 heads should have had a 2.5" cutter on the intake side to unshroud the larger valve. What is the casting number on those?
68 is the first year for the large journal crank. Is your heads number 186, they did not have screwing studs or guide plates. Spark plugs are straight plugs and not angle plugs. I made my with angle plugs and screw in studs, straight studs and no guide plates...
Trick flow just released the DHC 200 CNC ported. And they are on their way to me. They boist some impressive numbers. These 175 have been out for years and I think everyone has just been waiting on the 200 to come out. Like I was.
I waited for the 200cc versions. They were revealed in 2019 but were not in production. After 2021 I couldn’t wait any longer. I had Straub technologies CNC port them. They flow very well according to their numbers. My motor made good power on the dyno.
@@matthewewing663 oh I know I bought a set of the speedway camel humps ones back in 2020 thinking I would do the same but never ended up useing them till now, they are getting a mild port job and going on a street 400 now. FYI the DHC 200 are a different casting then the 175s I called and asked.
@@taverncustoms I see the 200's are physically larger and taller than the 175's. They wont be quite as stealthy but I wonder what they would do once ported a bit by someone like Eric. They could possibly be big enough for a 427 or 434 SBC sleeper.
I lost flow on a set of I think they where 291s when putting a 2.02 valve in. I gained it back and some when I relieved the chamber. The heads that came with a 2.02 valve from the factory had the chamber relieved from what I have seen.
Remember when I said you can get a good idea about where air flows by looking at the reflection it casts when you shine a light on it. Look at the combustion chambers, and how the light reflects off them, on the CNC ported head you see how the light trails right into the plug boss and then into the exhaust port. It does this also on the Iron head as well, but you can tell that it's better on the CNC because the light on the Iron head is more diffused, you can tell the air isn't moving as efficiently, just from that.
I'm from South Africa and I swapped aluminium Aussie heads(witch was a bunch of s*#t,the rockers creeps coming loose no mater what jou do,1 at a time) for z28camel heads I'm happy with the swap
Is there a way to plug the exhaust crossover to make all the exhaust ports the same? I have poured aluminum in iron heads to close up the crossover in the ex. port, but most aftermarket aluminum heads don't have the crossover.
Question: As a general rule of thumb, if you have two different name brand heads that flow the same cfm at a given lift, but one head has a 195 cfm intake runner and the other has a 175 cfm intake runner, will they both make the same power on a given engine or will the smaller runner head have more velocity and produce more power on said engine? Thanks, Jim
The more velocity doesn’t necessarily mean more power that is a half truth. If the smaller head limits RPM of an engine, then the larger head will make more power.
Look at DOHC heads, where a 30 cubic inch cylinder will have a 240 cfm port on top of it. If the port is suffficient, no need to crutch it with huge duration cams.
I wonder if they could get NHRA Accepted as stock replacements? would be nice. and i bet prting them will be very nice flow numbers , Thanks again for sharing too, my friend had a 66 4spd chevelle 327 D H heads he put on his 350 block , got him 12 second ets with a nice valve job
I can't imagine that (however, I'm also no "NHRA rule expert")... but it would be fun to paint a set orange and throw them on to see what happens, anyway! 👍
If you go to a Stock/Superstock NHRA race, nearly everyone is 60+ and has been doing it for decades. Very hard fraternity to break into... and that majority likes to keep it that way, unless it's someone who isn't a true threat. lol As per the heads, unless their current stock is nearly worn out, they aren't going to want to bring in something like that, as it means a very long and expensive development curve. NHRA sometimes does this anyway, especially if people are having problems finding cores, but I'm assuming 186, etc heads are still fairly common in these circles.
@@n2omike Actually, we're not a hard bunch to join. Most of us are glad to see new participants, and willing to offer help and guidance. We'd very much like to see new participants in the classes. It isn't the racers who decide what is and is not legal, that's the NHRA tech department. NHRA is hesitant to allow replacement cylinder heads, and you would likely have a hard time getting these accepted. If they were accepted, there'd likely be a 10HP penalty of the HP factor of the combination they'd be accepted on. As an example, the Edelbrock Performer RPM rectangle port head is accepted on my 69 L-72 427/425. However, the head carries with it a 10HP penalty, changing the factor to 435HP. In A/S, where the weight break is 8.0 lbs per HP, that's an 80# weight penalty.
youd have the buy the x bare as they dont have nearly as good of quality parts of the TF heads. TF uses ferrea and PAC springs. i dont know what Promaxx uses for springs. but the project X is a bigger head by 10CCs min anyways
Ur buying a name! I had a set speedmaster 360 la heads done with a set of TF heads and i was shocked due to the cost difference. I love Trick Flow but idk if there prices are were they should be. I know TF runs better valves and springs and retainers.
@WeingartnerRacing Eric I know you know ur stuff and you have gotta protect who you surround ur self with I get it. Give me a few days and I'll PROVE the numbers. Is TF a better casting YES do they use better parts YES. Are there flow numbers way off for non CNC stuff NO.
Understood but you still haven't said anything about the FR # ? I'm not near as good as you but j know enough to know what's what. For a guy that dont have a ton of money I THINK there a good head. I ran my 2,500 miles and had no issues. I will say the valves were a little questionable but I left them just to see. No issues. Guides are bronze and seats never had a issue with ? Mind you there on a street motor. Dollar 4 dollar on a budget build I'll buy them again. You and I both know there are olny so many company's casting heads today. You also know were most of them are. Afr/Promaxx for instance. Dart are casted here in my state have a friend that works there and I've learned a TON about castings. No trying to start anything cause I know ur the BEST in the industry on the port side of things. Engine building as well. Something you should think about getting into.
I've been looking for a set of 187 heads, those came on the 1971 LT-1 with the lt-1 engine Corvette on😂e year only..Duh but I have a 1970 dated 0010 block and want to build a clone. It's good to know these are available. What's your price on these Eric or do I need to call.. thanks
@WeingartnerRacing Gotcha...was just wondering if you noticed anything in particular that was what probably made them be a little behind the stock ones on the exhaust. This was a fun video for me. Thanks
The 186 heads DO NOT use a taper seat plug! They use a washer plug. Putting a taper seat plug in them will flatten the first thread which makes future plug changes a problem.
I just save the video from DZ performance for this engine. He went from dart sportsman heads to these Trick Flow heads. Trick flow heads made more power, and they are smaller ports. Dz video below ua-cam.com/video/-MipUr9X-Wo/v-deo.htmlsi=Y7cPDDgM8PztbYUk
I have a 61 austin healey sprite with an sbc 383ci. The motor has the original double hump heads. If I bought the new style trick flows, ar they "bolt-on" or do they need a machine shop to do anything? I can replace the heads myself
I'm in shock that Chevy people could possibly think 50 year old cylinder head and engine design is in any way desirable. Every other manufacturer in the world has gone through countless engine upgrades in design and materials producing significantly better power to weight and power to cubic numbers yet insist on beating the drum on this long dead horse. The fact that someone could compare 50 year old iron heads to current aftermarket parts is shameful and a classic example that SB Chevy don't really care if they are being sold old tech. Reminds me of the 60s when I would go to the dirt track races where he happened to be the announcer. There were still people there insisting on running flathead Ford motors when there were bunches of better options. The few that did try running say a GMC 292 six were rewarded with consistent wins way less time rebuilding engines for goodness sakes.
nostalgia mainly. Just like Ford guys trying to hunt down GT40 & GT40P heads. TFS had an article out when the heads first came into development about the demand for a “double hump” aftermarket replacement. So probably for the period correct nostalgia guys.
A year and a 1/2 ago before the 200cc version became available I got a set of the 175cc versions. I was hoping Eric could do the work for me but it sounded like he was backlogged and I would have had to wait a while so I ended up getting another shop to port them for me. The shop I chose had a CNC program which opened them up to 205cc’s. I built a factory stock “appearing” 406 for my 69 Camaro. With these heads ported, a smaller solid roller cam and factory Z28 intake it Dyno’d 520 hp at 5900rpm. Im very happy with the heads and motor so far.
What Compression, did you run it at? That's a lot of hp on a 406 I've seen a 427 sbc only made 625 hp on flywheel. So a 406 making 600+ hp 🤔 not saying it can't be done but .....🤔
Mine made 520 not 600+. I’m running 10.3:1 compression
200 runners/flow.. or 200cc ..
@@matthewvarnam4302I just asked him too .. that I didn’t know they made 200cc heads.. n 175cc .. he probably ment to say flow/runner 200 .. ain’t cc the combustion chamber? .. the opening where the valves go..
Trick flow now has a 200cc CNC version available.
Thanks Eric, I was wanting to see the Trick Flow double hump heads tested.
Thank you for the information
Have a great day.
I have a set of these on my small block in my ‘71 Camaro. Painted Chevy orange. Look pretty cool.
If memory serves me correctly, the 186 heads actually take 13/16 flat washer( crush gasket) style plug.
Tapered plugs started in '70, so yes.
The best one was GM# 3991492, over the counter replacement for the classic heads with 2.02 and 1.6 and machined for screw in studs and guide plates. Available with straight or angled spark plugs. Bought many sets over the years for many projects. They cost only about $65.00 each bare.
Not any more!!!
@@richardfehr1838 That's the truth!!
Trick flow possibly copied the 461 head, it's plug was also located closer to the Deck,which put the plug down closer to the dome when applicable. Informative video.
I did a double take when I saw my first set! I could have sworn they must've been milled down.
@@dannydurham5716 they may be. Back in the day when I was running dome pistons on pump gas, the 461 would detonate where the 462 and later wouldn't. Later on I found that the angle plug heads were even better. People think they were for more flow, but I think they changed the plug to stave off detonation. Just My thoughts.
Trick flow also got the older style heads without accessory bolt holes
Thank you for this video, I have 291's and 492's already but have been curious about these aluminum copies for a while.
Big difference in power from my 461 heads. Huge
Awesome video as usual Eric, thanks for all you do. I learn something every time
Love the much more modern chamber of the TFs.
I have looked at the Trick Flow heads, ran the numbers as they give on their website and I personally think the only time they may be worth it is when you have NO heads to start with AND you are interested in keeping the stock look.
Otherwise, buy some AFR heads and make much better power, especially with a bigger cubic inch engine like the sbc 400 you’re mentioning here that these heads will be on.
The Trick Flow heads will definitely be limiting power with that engine.
Thanks for the video!👍🏻
On the rocker studs, my Machinest back when I worked retail Auto Parts, would drill through the boss and the stud and pin the press-in rocker studs the heads came with. this was cheaper and most customers went with this mod. They could always mill down the bosses and thread them later, so it didn’t destroy the heads and unless you were building an all out race engine, they worked fine.
Very common and reliable upgrade. Plus It's not hard to do at home.
I thought about ordering a set from you Eric. However I've been watching them for months as my engine project got put on the back burner for a while and these heads have been hit and miss available for quite a while now. In fact I've been on notification with Summit for about a month now and they aren't expected back in stock until May. Same thing happened last summer, took a few months before they had a few sets to sell.
Thanks for the review, been looking forward to that.
Thank you, Eric. I hope someone buys these from you and has a little port work done!
Want to see something amazing, go to the Charles Servedio's head porting and flow bench on here. He made a set of swirl port 193 casting heads flow over 300 CFM! The worst flowing sbc production head ever produced, he got more flow than any other factory ported production head has ever gotten!
He has a playlist of it and IIRC he hit 300 around the 20 cut video. He did it in stages to see what mod made what. A bunch of short videos wit the progress showing the gains for every change with flow numbers.
Who would of thunk the worst sbc production head would have the most potential?🤔😎👍
Max ported head with big 76 cc Combustion chamber Started out 200 horse and big swirl great gas milage now 100 horse
Great head to practice porting on I actually cut weight of the head to 30 pounds
193s you port match and get 300 horse 350 Decked too
easy 50 60 hours to make 300 cfm Boat anchors lol
@@alonzahanks1182
I thought they were 76cc chambers too but Charlie corrected me, they are actually 65cc chambers from the factory. I did find that on one sight that listed them as 65cc chambers as well. Plus Charlie measured the CCs of one of the chambers and got IIRC 66cc. One CC more than what the factory claims them to be is close enough.
If the engine those heads came on had flat top pistons the compression would be what it should be to make power. Without the air flow though would be a recipe for detonation. Unless you duplicate what Charlie did to make 600 plus HP.😎👍
@@itseithergonnaworkoritaint7852 Those are actually 84 85 chevy heads They used up in 96 Suppose its possible for them to be a 305 head like 416 with 184 valves but doughtful
624s come in all shapes and sizes
probably milled 12 Thousandths
my stock tahoe heads were 176 cc
hogged out 2 sets that measured 76
and had 9 to 1 compression because of pistons but were still 175 horse with injection tpi heads
they were pretty Ballsy lol
probably angle cut if 600 horse engine
and for sure would have to be 2 inch valves installed
didnt say wasnt impossible
Its the early Bowtie engine with porting for roller lifters and drilled and tapped for spider a good base engine to build
But because no mass air sensor compression was not all0wed for smog
till 96
1 early virson in corvette and Camaro
being the LT1 engine with 52 cc chambers
in 93 94 but had only 300 ponies
My 71 Z28 350 LT1 had the angle plug double humps. Back in the 80's had it rebuilt and balanced by Wayne Calvert. That thing got scary at high speeds, front would get light. Numbers matching with M22 etc.
Just remembering....
I have been waiting for this!
Nice video of flow numbers comparison of the 2 heads. Those trick flow heads you just flowed if I remember correctly they flowed better than the world sportsman 2 heads so that neat at least
Thanks for the flow numbers! I was curious how this head actually flows.
After weeks of research, I settled on these, for a street 350, because I'm at high elevation, and these flow much better than my Vortecs without giving up any compression, unlike costlier AFR180s.
Awesome comparison, those TFs aren't too bad, definitely out perform the old 186s and with a bit of color and the right valve covers could easily fool most people in your "average" old hotrod.
I had some 186 Heads, Damn they woke up the engine I put them on, had to relocate my Alternator because they didnt have holes and mine, which had been cut, were a bit over 61 cc.
You mentioned the 882's off a 400, Well they're not only fairly small chamber but flow better than any Stock Chevy head up to Vortec.
The 400 had a huge dish in the pistons, I'd bought a car for the 400 for a race car I had and my trusty Chevy head ID book identified them as the bad.ass heads to start with, you have to put bigger valves in them and if you want a lot of Compression, you've got to cut them but not by much. With Flat tops they're a bit over 9.5:1 so you don't have to cut much, but the chambers ate as big as you can Find. The 882 on 350's were different, the little sideways half point id mark is a bit different, just like the 186 and 461 462 are,, they all have double humps but they're all different.
It's the same with 882's off a 400.
I had Circle track guys trying to buy my heads offering far more than I had in the whole car I scraped for the engine, Teams and all the extra bits .
Tell your buddy, they're different
I've been wondering about this since they came out
Thank you for your knowledge and video's USA 🇺🇸
I took a grinder to a set of cast iron 289 Ford heads and ground 2 humps on the ends. Intake flow improved to 290 cfm @.500 lift and exhaust flow went to 195 cfm @ .500 lift. To hell with installing bigger valves and seats and all that porting and polishing, I'm just going to put humps on the ends and call it good.
Speedway motors have a version as well. no accesories bolt holes, higher raised rocker cover rail, different chamber shape.. they must be popular for the stock look with better performance.. well done...
Don't think they are built by Trickflow and I suspect the flow numbers are worse, but you save bucks.
@@richardfehr1838 Yes, i would say chinese made, no acc blt holes, 180cc and flow figures match Tricflow figures, chamber shape is good..valve jobs are hit and miss..look them up...
In 2019, I put new Trick Flow DHC 175 heads on a 350, and it started consuming oil. Thinking the rings were worn out, I had a new SBC built and used the DHC 175 heads. Despite being new, the heads were rebuilt for go measure. The new motor consumed oil, and everything pointed to the heads. Had the heads professionally rebuilt again, but still burning oil. Finally sent the motor back to the builder for a refresh.
The Trick Flow DHC 175 were machined wrong!!! Every time they were rebuilt to OEM specifications. This time the valve guides were measured and were found to be over bored. Oversize valve guide seals fixed the problem.
Four summer driving seasons lost. Thousands of dollars spent. All because of bad Trick Flow double-hump heads, new in the box.
I hate to be the one to say this but it is highly unlikely it was the heads. They may have got the blame but things would have to be insanely worn out to cause that. For reference circle track and some boat motors don’t even run oil seals on the guides. They are not overly consuming oil. It was most likely rings.
@@WeingartnerRacing It is difficult to condense all the troubleshooting in to a single post. On motor #2, when I removed the intake, there was a teaspoon of oil on top of the valves in two of four intake ports. The other two ports had their valve open. When that head was removed there was a teaspoon of oil on top of those pistons with the open valves. No carbon on the pistons due to the oil washing them down. This lead to the second rebuild of the heads (which was done be a different shop).
When that did not solve it, I continued throwing parts at it - new intake, even a different EFI system. Like you, I concluded it had to be the rings. So the motor came out and went back to the builder. Rings were changed since it was apart. I have those first rings and they are barely worn.
This time the shop outsourced the head rebuild to yet another different head shop. Since no other 'smoking gun' was found, they examined the heads with a micrometer and eventually found the issue. Oversize seals fixed the problem.
Is it possible the builder lied to me? I suppose. But I did see the oil on top of the valves and pistons myself. Everything kept pointing to the heads, but after two rebuilds I looked elsewhere.
Looking back to motor #1, I assumed changing the heads had caused enough of a compression change to take out those rings. In retrospect, that appears to be an incorrect diagnosis as I assumed the Trick Flow heads were properly made.
As an aside, the previous heads on motor #1 were original double humps which came on a 350 my dad purchased in 1967. Never touched or rebuilt. Piston #7 was consistently fouling plugs, which led to the project to install the Trick Flow DHC 175 heads.
The factory hi performance double hump heads are easily recognizable by the screw in studs and Gide plates. The chambers around the intake valve are unshrouded so the spacing between the chamber is narrower just like the trcflo
I have a virgin pair of 1968 L79 Corvette heads with 2.02/1.60 valves that do not have screw in studs or guide plates. This engine also has the 1 year only large journal FORGED crank that many will argue was never made.
@@bowtie0069 Screw in studs came out in 69. Your factory 2.02 heads should have had a 2.5" cutter on the intake side to unshroud the larger valve. What is the casting number on those?
68 is the first year for the large journal crank. Is your heads number 186, they did not have screwing studs or guide plates. Spark plugs are straight plugs and not angle plugs. I made my with angle plugs and screw in studs, straight studs and no guide plates...
The 186 heads were 64 cc, cut down to 59 or 60c
Ran these on a tpi 350. They were effective for that application.
Trick flow just released the DHC 200 CNC ported. And they are on their way to me. They boist some impressive numbers. These 175 have been out for years and I think everyone has just been waiting on the 200 to come out. Like I was.
I waited for the 200cc versions. They were revealed in 2019 but were not in production. After 2021 I couldn’t wait any longer. I had Straub technologies CNC port them. They flow very well according to their numbers. My motor made good power on the dyno.
@@matthewewing663 oh I know I bought a set of the speedway camel humps ones back in 2020 thinking I would do the same but never ended up useing them till now, they are getting a mild port job and going on a street 400 now. FYI the DHC 200 are a different casting then the 175s I called and asked.
@@taverncustoms I see the 200's are physically larger and taller than the 175's. They wont be quite as stealthy but I wonder what they would do once ported a bit by someone like Eric. They could possibly be big enough for a 427 or 434 SBC sleeper.
I lost flow on a set of I think they where 291s when putting a 2.02 valve in. I gained it back and some when I relieved the chamber. The heads that came with a 2.02 valve from the factory had the chamber relieved from what I have seen.
That’s a neat set up. I’d say $1500 is a good deal.
Remember when I said you can get a good idea about where air flows by looking at the reflection it casts when you shine a light on it. Look at the combustion chambers, and how the light reflects off them, on the CNC ported head you see how the light trails right into the plug boss and then into the exhaust port. It does this also on the Iron head as well, but you can tell that it's better on the CNC because the light on the Iron head is more diffused, you can tell the air isn't moving as efficiently, just from that.
I think the 327 heads didn't have the bolt holes . If I am remembering correctly
I'm from South Africa and I swapped aluminium Aussie heads(witch was a bunch of s*#t,the rockers creeps coming loose no mater what jou do,1 at a time) for z28camel heads I'm happy with the swap
Good Information, Thank you!
Is there a way to plug the exhaust crossover to make all the exhaust ports the same? I have poured aluminum in iron heads to close up the crossover in the ex. port, but most aftermarket aluminum heads don't have the crossover.
Straub has a CNC program that opens them up to 200cc & goes up to 293ish at .800?
The vein is vortec like captains bars head like 96 Tahoe swirl good gas milage head
96 suburban Got the flamed tumble vortec like 906
Question: As a general rule of thumb, if you have two different name brand heads that flow the same cfm at a given lift, but one head has a 195 cfm intake runner and the other has a 175 cfm intake runner, will they both make the same power on a given engine or will the smaller runner head have more velocity and produce more power on said engine? Thanks, Jim
The more velocity doesn’t necessarily mean more power that is a half truth. If the smaller head limits RPM of an engine, then the larger head will make more power.
Look at DOHC heads, where a 30 cubic inch cylinder will have a 240 cfm port on top of it. If the port is suffficient, no need to crutch it with huge duration cams.
I wonder if they could get NHRA Accepted as stock replacements? would be nice. and i bet prting them will be very nice flow numbers , Thanks again for sharing too, my friend had a 66 4spd chevelle 327 D H heads he put on his 350 block , got him 12 second ets with a nice valve job
I can't imagine that (however, I'm also no "NHRA rule expert")... but it would be fun to paint a set orange and throw them on to see what happens, anyway! 👍
If you go to a Stock/Superstock NHRA race, nearly everyone is 60+ and has been doing it for decades. Very hard fraternity to break into... and that majority likes to keep it that way, unless it's someone who isn't a true threat. lol As per the heads, unless their current stock is nearly worn out, they aren't going to want to bring in something like that, as it means a very long and expensive development curve. NHRA sometimes does this anyway, especially if people are having problems finding cores, but I'm assuming 186, etc heads are still fairly common in these circles.
They'd allow these in FAST probably
@@n2omike
Actually, we're not a hard bunch to join. Most of us are glad to see new participants, and willing to offer help and guidance. We'd very much like to see new participants in the classes.
It isn't the racers who decide what is and is not legal, that's the NHRA tech department. NHRA is hesitant to allow replacement cylinder heads, and you would likely have a hard time getting these accepted. If they were accepted, there'd likely be a 10HP penalty of the HP factor of the combination they'd be accepted on. As an example, the Edelbrock Performer RPM rectangle port head is accepted on my 69 L-72 427/425. However, the head carries with it a 10HP penalty, changing the factor to 435HP. In A/S, where the weight break is 8.0 lbs per HP, that's an 80# weight penalty.
@@billymanilli
What would happen is a minimum one year suspension, and possibly a $1,000 fine.
Im interested in the DHC 200 cnc heads. its nice to see the DHC175's
they have 200cc? never seen them must be brand new ive only ever seen the 175s
@@KingJT80they were just available this weekend it’s been a few years wait for the CNC DHC 200 to finally be available
Ive got a set of 492s just on a shelf doi g nothing lol
Wonder how much more is in the TF with work?
I would buy a set of promaxx project x way before those you made me a believer in promaxx
youd have the buy the x bare as they dont have nearly as good of quality parts of the TF heads. TF uses ferrea and PAC springs. i dont know what Promaxx uses for springs. but the project X is a bigger head by 10CCs min anyways
Wish you could do a World product cast iron sportsman II compared to the 461 chevy double humps.
sportsmanII's arent all that great out of the box, but with some basic work, theyll blow the 461 away.
I have done video on sportsman 2
Thanks for Sharing ...
Ur buying a name! I had a set speedmaster 360 la heads done with a set of TF heads and i was shocked due to the cost difference. I love Trick Flow but idk if there prices are were they should be. I know TF runs better valves and springs and retainers.
Speedmaster is garbage you can’t compare them to TrickFlow.
@WeingartnerRacing Eric I know you know ur stuff and you have gotta protect who you surround ur self with I get it. Give me a few days and I'll PROVE the numbers. Is TF a better casting YES do they use better parts YES. Are there flow numbers way off for non CNC stuff NO.
@@nickclifford5513I’m not protecting anyone. I know speedmaster are crap. I have witnessed everything go wrong with them.
Understood but you still haven't said anything about the FR # ? I'm not near as good as you but j know enough to know what's what. For a guy that dont have a ton of money I THINK there a good head. I ran my 2,500 miles and had no issues. I will say the valves were a little questionable but I left them just to see. No issues. Guides are bronze and seats never had a issue with ? Mind you there on a street motor. Dollar 4 dollar on a budget build I'll buy them again. You and I both know there are olny so many company's casting heads today. You also know were most of them are. Afr/Promaxx for instance. Dart are casted here in my state have a friend that works there and I've learned a TON about castings. No trying to start anything cause I know ur the BEST in the industry on the port side of things. Engine building as well. Something you should think about getting into.
I've been looking for a set of 187 heads, those came on the 1971 LT-1 with the lt-1 engine Corvette on😂e year only..Duh but I have a 1970 dated 0010 block and want to build a clone. It's good to know these are available. What's your price on these Eric or do I need to call.. thanks
By the way those 187 heads are hens teeth!
@@cliffwright9842he use to have prices on his website, but they may have been removed with the way pricing changes with the economy so fast anymore.
Eric, can we get a link to Nick’s webpage with the 350 dyno
Thanks
Great video
Eric
What would you do to fix the exhaust on the Trick Flows?
Port them
@WeingartnerRacing Gotcha...was just wondering if you noticed anything in particular that was what probably made them be a little behind the stock ones on the exhaust.
This was a fun video for me. Thanks
I wonder if those heads would work with a 3 7/8, plus.030 over like with a 307?
Are those stock double hump heads the same as vortec heads?
Nope
Has a bit of a Raised rocker cover rail...
The 186 heads DO NOT use a taper seat plug! They use a washer plug. Putting a taper seat plug in them will flatten the first thread which makes future plug changes a problem.
Correct but I ran tapered seat plugs on them for years when I was younger. It never messed up the threads.
Some 186’s have taper seat starting in 1970..1968-69 186’s have washer plugs
Will the brodix is 180 heads out flow them out of the box
Back in the day angle plug heads were the rage , why aren't theses?
How do they compare to the Super 23 Trick Flows?
Been thinking about purchasing a set and trying them on my 300 hp. 355 sbc.
only guy i know that ports caste iron heads on youtube, Charles Servedio cylinder head porting & flowbench
Big dogs does too, I believe they are in NY someplace.
Does the Nick fellow you mention have a channel/page?
it’s DZ Performance
@@jimmy_olds Thank You
@@derrelcarter9401 you’re welcome! I just started watching his channel, he’s good 👍🏼
"Throat at 88%" and "Bowl at 95%", what does that mean?
Do you know if those heads will work on an early 283?
The valve may hit the deck. Small bore. I said may.
Double humps never had taper seat plugs....r45 delcos
He's trying to make his voice sound like Steve Morris 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣😂😂
Or he is trying to make his voice sound like mine. I think are voices are worlds apart. I’m redneck.
I just save the video from DZ performance for this engine.
He went from dart sportsman heads to these Trick Flow heads. Trick flow heads made more power, and they are smaller ports.
Dz video below
ua-cam.com/video/-MipUr9X-Wo/v-deo.htmlsi=Y7cPDDgM8PztbYUk
How much are the factory heads worth, I've got a pair in my closet
Whatever someone will pay.
I have never seen a original set with accessory holes in it.
I have a 61 austin healey sprite with an sbc 383ci.
The motor has the original double hump heads.
If I bought the new style trick flows, ar they "bolt-on" or do they need a machine shop to do anything?
I can replace the heads myself
Do you also call them Mickey mouse head inthe Us ?
Pluses and minuses but similar
Iron heads should have been machined for valve spring's.
True original "double hump" cylinder heads did not have threaded mounting holes on the ends.
I just showed a set. They are 186 heads.
Why won't DZ performance pull up on youtube?
Unless you got blocked it’s there.
@@WeingartnerRacing it's a UA-cam problem on the search problem. Googled it and came right up
Now port them and see what they flow
How could I use these in circle track racing but disguised as steel “stock” double hump 🤫🤷🏼♂️🤫🤫🤫😉
Speedway makes an aluminum double hump heads.
The Speedway double hump is a Flotec 180cc casting head
What's the best heads to buy for the best hp. The cheapest
I could show this to my old man and he still wouldn't believe men when I tell him his old iron castings kinda stink.
wow...those ported 2.02 valved 186 heads flow less than charles servideos ported 1.94 valved 193 swirl port heads.
All that work to the double humps to barely be better than stock vortec heads
I was told to not paint aluminium heads.
It doesn’t hurt them
@@WeingartnerRacing
I was told that painting aluminum heads blocks heat escape.
Those trick flow heads are weak
They are better than many aftermarket heads.
I'm in shock that Chevy people could possibly think 50 year old cylinder head and engine design is in any way desirable. Every other manufacturer in the world has gone through countless engine upgrades in design and materials producing significantly better power to weight and power to cubic numbers yet insist on beating the drum on this long dead horse. The fact that someone could compare 50 year old iron heads to current aftermarket parts is shameful and a classic example that SB Chevy don't really care if they are being sold old tech. Reminds me of the 60s when I would go to the dirt track races where he happened to be the announcer. There were still people there insisting on running flathead Ford motors when there were bunches of better options. The few that did try running say a GMC 292 six were rewarded with consistent wins way less time rebuilding engines for goodness sakes.
nostalgia mainly. Just like Ford guys trying to hunt down GT40 & GT40P heads. TFS had an article out when the heads first came into development about the demand for a “double hump” aftermarket replacement. So probably for the period correct nostalgia guys.
I found DZ performance @ you tube Nick DZ performance hope this helps.