It should be noted that those Intellectual Property Agreements are binding between you and the participating companies which prevents them from manufacturing said designs for distribution on their behalf or for others whom may approach them. It may also be helpful if you do need to defend the IP if someone else files first. But, it doesn’t prevent anyone else watching this from simply duplicating or manufacturing it. I typically despise patents, especially in the racing world but after so many larger companies now hold IP on designs I refused to file IP on…..my perception has changed some. Its prob best if you just claim it’s patient pending. Won’t hold any water, but will be enough to deter someone from running with it. Then, manufacture a medium sized batch and sell them through the channel until someone eventually knocks you off from china.
Ohh ya, Thank you for these “hands on” demonstration style educational content. This type of content is extremely beneficial for many of us. Even when you go over the basics. Viewers and creators alike, often forget that there’s many people in the audience whom are just starting. A full build series would be dope once your shop is complete. Something like an SB2.2 or trick 9°-13°. Go over choosing the components and cohesively/ strategically planning the build which might be difficult for some. Block selection, Circle track Cam selection including the dia amd firing order, lifter selection including the Dia, offset etc, and why, crank and stroke selection, head choices. Stuff most people really don’t show. They typically just say we’re building this with this, but don’t demonstrate the process. Showing newbies what to watch out for while assembling. Things people often overlook. We often here creators discuss cam selection but I’ve never heard any creator discus what makes a great cam for certain applications like circle track, just number chasing on the dyno. It would be cool to hear what you think makes a great CT cam and why. Dirt track vs pavement etc.
I can NOT believe that you haven’t gotten 1,000 likes yet! This is nothing more than common sense! Please contact me about your degree wheel. I’m just a sportsman drag racer that does everything but the machine work myself. Again. PLEASE take my money!!!
The man is handing out gold information while facing the harsh reality of a hurricane. We can do better than just a like. I hope you’re well Mr. Salter.
Amongst all the D measuring we see between the engine builders on YT I can say I really appreciate your clear and detailed info. As a guy just beginning to try and make sense of all this it makes a big difference when a guys not speaking through a haze of ego. Thank you for sharing your experience with us Brian.
We used to change rocker ratios at the track as a tuning method. It would simulate moving the overlap advanced or retarded depending on which ratio combination you went with. We couldn't afford Dyno sessions back in the day
Man that was really good.....Thanks for sharing/and the clean-up and things lost during hurricane man.....hit here HARD in East TN. But I have power/water and a home....Prayers for those that lost it all.
When I was teaching Auto Shop, I had some students build up a 383 Chevy. Just to show them the relationship between lift at the lifter, lift at the valve, duration and overlap, I had them plot every degree for both the lifter and valves. (both intake and exhaust) then we graphed the results showing the relationship. There is a way to plot this in Excel. Very interesting. Also noted that there were some variations in the base circle. I can't remember whose cam that was. Wish we would've done different rocker arms too. Unfortunately, there weren't all that many kids that could stay tuned in for that much time. Something like a low buck Cam Dr. might have been helpful. Your .050" increments seem like a good compromise. Probably could just do .010" intervals in areas that seem to need a bit more attention. This is certainly one of your best videos. As others have said, pushrod length would be a good one too. Right now, I'm studying everything I can find on building a BIG BBC with total emphasis on low speed torque. 800 - 4000 rpm. Red line @ 5252 just to show HP & torque are the same at that rpm. Sign me up for a degree wheel too (although I may make my version in the meantime)
That degree wheel design cancels out any parallax error a timing pointer set up could bring. If it makes it to market, I’ll be obligated to buy one. That is one nice instrument.
Salter crew, thank you for another very informative video. I'm enjoying them all and appreciate the education. My engine builder believes lift should be obtained through the camshaft and not through rockers. That's his response last week when I wanted 1.65 from 1.5 on my Pontiac. I agree with you on lifter stability vs. aggresive fast camshaft ramps. Thanks for your input!
@@newcitycarpet3675 okay just want to make sure you know where I'm coming from on that I use very high rocker ratios when I'm trying to race hydraulic rollers or hydraulic flat topic For All out Racing with no rules I will use between a 1.7 and a 1.8 rocker on most things
Yes, thank you for that reminder. You did mention that the hydraulic camshaft has limitations and the bigger ratios can work to there benefit regarding stability. Thanks again, I drag race a stock 1965 GTO by NHRA 1965 rules for the fun and the continued learning is fantastic.
Get together with Powell Machine and make your degree wheels. He’s a machinist that knows what he’s doing and another good honest southern guy I’m sure y’all could make a hell of a product and do it for the little guys. Plus you always make more money with less overhead doing it yourself.
Thanks a lot for all that very interesting info! That's a very cool degree-wheel indicator idea😃 I especially appreciated you going through all the steps demonstrating how different the duration numbers can be depending on where the you are on the lobe; I hadn't even considered the fact that it could vary before but your video gave a very clear demonstration.
That was excellent, thanks. It's pretty awesome that you make these educational videos for everybody to see, free of charge. I'm not always a fan of modern technology, but being able to watch in-class videos from CalTech, MIT etc and you on UA-cam is so cool.
Great video I was wondering what happened to the last video I didn’t think it was bad but I love to learn and your years of experience you just can’t buy. there’s a lot of people who have had hard time reading and learning but if there shone they pick it right up your helping me included your doing a great job keep the videos coming
Love your wheel! I can’t believe the difference. You are the only one who has showed the difference in duration between the two! Thank you for this information. I have always wondered about this issue. Way bigger issue than I was lead to believe big time. I have a small cam but it could really affect the overall situation on how this thing runs. Wow I am glad I found you. Thank you so much. Really!
Thank you Brian for the video. Praying for God to send you the resources needed to recover from the hurricane. I fallow you through your videos from here in Wentzville Missouri. 😊
I am making my own oil pressure shim washer adjusted shaft stands so you don’t have push rod guides or adjusters on rocker arm or push rod. My 1.8 are 1.937. My geometry is based on the furthest valve travel for push rod travel which is fastest off the seat. .100 offset 18mm 1.5 deep Certs I make which close the hole in the intake port and seal water jacket in exhaust. These allowed 3/8” 3” arp tall studs but they are girdled above the shaft. I have to make tall covers and I am looking for some short hat stem seals. Between you and DV you really got me going! Don’t let your stuff rust, WD40, oil, grease!
Can't thank you enough for sharing your knowledge and experience. Clear and very detailed. I learned a ton from these two videos. Would love to get one of those degree wheels. Please do have them made. I'm a customer!
I love your videos you have so much knowledge and are so humble I'll be retiring in 3 more years. And I'm 63 years old and been street racing sense 1976. I just built a 88 monte carlo SS with a big block 439 it's a decent street engine it's got a howards hyd roller afr heads all good rotating assembly and it's right at 11 to 1 compression. I do have a solid roller for it that is quite a bit bigger it's the comp 294r so it's right at 260 duration x 666 lift on a 110 lsaim hoping this cam swap will give me about 30 more hp that would make my engine right at making 700 hp. And that's not bad for a NA pump gas street car. Also I have a lil 406 that I'm getting ready to make it a 421. I sure wish I had all your knowledge. Thanks for the video and I will be keeping you in my prayers I do know the affects of bad hurricanes I live in louisiana and what Katrina did my home town outside of need Orleans let's just say it will never be the same in my lifetime. So my prayers are with you.
Thanks again man I have learned a lot already. Your a really good dude to take time out of your schedule to help educate simple people like me. Especially while dealing with a hurricane!? You must be built different.👍
I’ve also learned that no two brands can be the same either. One may be way more aggressive I guess you could say, than the other. They change ratio dependent on where they are in the lift point of the rocker as well, where the push rod cup is located, makes a big deal on the ratio. It may be more like 1.8 when closed, then be closer to 1.6 at half lift. Love learning this stuff! Good stuff dude! That degree wheel is really slick too by the way!
Like all great ideas, this has the why didn't I think of that! What one gets out of this, is check each valve!!!!! So thankyou Mr. Salter. Sorry about your stuff and I have commented before the end. Cheers big ears!
Wow that was a great video explained things so well and helped me see how much is involved in this now obviously very important step of putting an engine together. Thank you.
I did something similar on a 5.0 and with AFR 195 Renegade heads. It's an early Ford E cam that I went to a 1.82 Scorpion rocker. That little 5.0 really runs good like that.
Excellent video Brian. Would you consider doing a similar video showing the same effects you have here with different push rod lengths? For example a push rod length sized for Mid Lift geometry with a 1.6:1 rocker and a push rod length sized to set the geometry as Low Pivot with 1.6:1 rockers. It's interesting to see the gains and losses when the operating arc of the rocker tip is changed via the pushrod length.
I’m a rookie at engine building for sure. I’m planning to rebuild the 4.3 v6 in my 93 Chevy truck. I’ve been researching OE cams and because the after market cams are too aggressive for my daily driver . After watching this video I think that going from a 1.5 to a 1.6 rocker could give this engine the extra power I’m looking for. Also keep in mind that this is an experiment for fun .
My old man taught me that you should soak your lifters overnight before you build the engine that way when you go to fire it up and set valve lash it works better and is safer and easier as well.
Can you explain why using a 1.5 rocker on exhaust and 1.6 rocker on intake on a solid roller is an advantage on a race engine? Thanks for sharing all your knowledge
@@josephverdone7099 well it's what we call using split ratios and basically it's the same thought process as using a dual pattern camshaft. You don't necessarily need a very fast valve action on the exhaust side and you can do most of what you need done on the exhaust side with the cam lobe and a relatively easy rocker. But I have used both split ratios and straight across ratios and depending on which one I use I might have more of a change in my camshaft lobes with the straight across ratios and they might be more closer together when I'm running split rocker ratios. But opening the intake valve faster means you're getting that valve out of the way ( at least as much as possible) so that the Piston can have full access to the port on the downward intake stroke because your valve is your restriction. So having a fast valve action on the intake is always a plus and it does help stock engines as well that's why people change the rocker ratios on their stock vehicles. A lot of why the factory doesn't do it is they will use the camshaft split itself or they don't do split rocker ratios because of manufacturing costs. But then again they're trying to build stuff that gets great fuel mileage has great vacuum and idol smoothly. So a different agenda altogether.
I often hear people that tend to assume that just swapping from say a 1.6 to 1.7 ratio rocker is going to make more power automatically. Assuming everything in the valve train can handle the increased intensity of the valve movement would you say this is true in your experience? Have you often found you have to move the cam timing around to take full advantage of the the higher ratio rocker to make more power? A lot of variables at play just speaking in general here.
@@aaronanderson6892 no I wasn't you have to transpose the numbers and I forgot to do that for everybody I'm telling you man there's always something I forget to do and I'm making a video Stuff I do everyday when I make a video it seems like I forget it
@@rubyr.4812 great question I never do that that's a Shelf stock cam I think the manufacturers do it because they worry about it not performing well when cars take off from a standstill it will give the engine a little more take off acceleration but to me it always hurts them in the end but I'm talking strictly from a race point of view. When I grind a camshaft I install it on the LSA I had it made on
@@cuzz63 that's exactly right when you have a heavy car you have more acceleration from takeoff and that's what I was saying earlier it gives you more lower RPM torque but it always hurts you on the top end horsepower
@@SalterRacingEngines I am aware of doing things like this a car my lose HP but may have a faster ET which is what the customer wanted. Also why I assumed the cam company would send those instructions...instead of custom grinds for each customer they would take one off the shelf that was close and have to install it retarded or advanced based on other factors. I dont know if my assumption is true or not though.
@@cuzz63 it sounds like you're exactly correct Custom grinds cost a lot more or I should say they just in general cost more now imagine you paid the extra money and waited the extra time to get a custom camshaft and when you put it in it was just completely wrong unless you had absolutely everything to do with the grind you most likely are going to blame the cam company for a referring you to get a cam like that so it kind of helps them avoid being blamed for bad choices by making shelf cams that you choose and then you can't blame it on them when it doesn't perform. At least I think that's a lot of it and a lot of times what you need is on the shelf anyways Italy's first Street stuff one of the main things I don't like about shelf cams is the LSA but other than that a lot of them are very close to it they should be as far as what's available in the book
The ratio/lift is dependent on the line through the 3 contact points versus valve stem at right angle, the sweep its just a simple lever. Graph lift to degree rotation to see the curve difference from the profile curve. Are you better off to have a long rocker or a short one? ( assuming you move the stud away from the valve)
That was really interesting, quick question, on a street car what would you prefer, the intake lift be higher or lower then the exhaust lift, solid flat tappet cam?
I have a sbc edelbrock hyd roller .234-.238 @.050 .539-.548 lift 112 lsa. in the instructions it says in all caps ONLY USE STOCK RATIO ROCKERS. is that to keep oil in the lifters or somthing else. if i run solid lifters on it can i then go to a 1.6 rocker?. thanks for all the great info you are sharing
@@fyffeal well that's a great question and I think it's best answered by saying one reason Edelbrock does that is because it changes the cam card information as you saw in my video and they don't know if people who are buying their camshafts understand that so they stay on the safe side of things by telling people to use only the stock Rock arm because that's what the cam card was designed to be ran with. Due to the fact I do not know the heat treat process on the Edelbrock cam I would highly recommend you call their tech department before you make changes to valve springs and rocker arms and solid lifters. Just to be safe If it was in my shop and I was building it I could certainly set it up to do that but I do not want to speak for them.
Not all the blame on the rocker arm. What's the concentricity of the roller on the tip? A small accumulation of chain lengths and gear tooth location will skew the numbers. You need to also put a degree wheel on the cam at the same time to know where you're at. Mike
Good evening my father and I was watching about the rockers. I noticed your tool (Awesome) !!!! Is there any chance I can purchase one as a surprise gift for dad. Please let me know. Thank you very much.
Have you had any problems with flat tappet cams wearing out prematurely. I know you said worn lifter bores are the cause. So if lifter bore is correct, cam and lifter should rotate as intended.
@@joemathews278 absolutely not most of the time you going to get gaines from it I'm not going to say all the time but for sure most of the time If you have a low compression ratio you can go too far
I'm building a new 588 big block mopar and I have worried about this night after night laying down for bed lol. I have 1.5 rockers and felt like I'm leaving something on the table. Comp is building my custom cam any day now for my new engine. You have made me sleep better tonight with your knowledge! I trust you 100% thank you Brian!!
As I have said earlier,I wish I come to you a year gone I obviously didnt know you from Australia I have all new aluminium 9.8 4.600 BRODIX BBC In Ohio to come to Australia. Parts already purchasedin a supposed turbo combo , to ask you to complete build would not be rite for you.Would like to get in touch to see your possible completion ? changes needed, I have spend a lot a fortune BRODIX SR 20 heads jesel mowhork steel pro rockers was to be basic ,oh well .I am concerned about combo listening I do know the rings I made him get the height In your video you stated is a must .Thank you
You don't need to check the valve/piston clearance when the intake closes. The piston is far from the valve then, not even halfway up the cylinder. Otherwise it was a very rewarding video, like your protractor very much
Very informational presentation but your results may not be optimal because your indicator probe wasn't running inline with the valve stem. Your results where the more the valve is open the more the results were different may not be the same as what the valve may be seeing? So that extra lift you were experiencing could of been from the angle of the indicator probe moving at a different ratio as the valve because of the different angles? To test what I have wrote, setup your indicator at the angle you had it on in the video as close as you can and do your lift measurement and write it down. Then set the probe as close as you can to traveling on the same angle as the valve stem and recheck your lift measurement. If they are different you might want to make sure in future testing that your indicator probe is traveling as close to the same angle as the valve for more accurate measuring? If you ever used machine shop trigonometry to find the lengths of the 3 sides of a right angle triangle you would know the hypotenuse is always longer than the other 2 sides that are on the 90° right angle. And the angle the indicator was on was the longer hypotenuse. This could be the extra ratio you measured and why it increased the more it opened? I'm not totally sure if this will make a difference or not because I have never tried it before I usually try to get the probe as close to the valve stem angle by eye as I can. It looked like you were about 10° to 20° different than the valve stem angle. Just something you might want to consider if you do the above comparison and the results differ.😎👍
I think that’s what us old guys call, a mile of piston to valve 😂😂😂😂! Seems we all learned things the same way 🤷🤷🤷🤷! Hydraulics were called sissy sticks 😝😝😝😝!
What I have done for development, is calculated the delivered rocker ratio at the valve, for every ten degrees of crank rotation and then you can target the peak ratio point for wherever you think it needs the most amplification to the cam profile. Commonly, that would be peak piston velocity, though I think Billy Godbold has said that from a design standpoint, it could be better another way. You would have to test or be working with someone like him to achieve the best results.
This is achieved by moving the fulcrum up or down and altering push rod length. It's actually super simple once you understand the geometry of it. For rockers without an adjuster on the push rod side, you have less control over the delivered ratio, so checking different brands to find the one that does what you want might be necessary.
COME ON YALL LETS GET 1000 LIKES!!! THANK YOU ALL VERY MUCH!!
Brian, renew your insurance...
@@autonomous_collective hahaha OK I will at 3pm
It should be noted that those Intellectual Property Agreements are binding between you and the participating companies which prevents them from manufacturing said designs for distribution on their behalf or for others whom may approach them. It may also be helpful if you do need to defend the IP if someone else files first. But, it doesn’t prevent anyone else watching this from simply duplicating or manufacturing it. I typically despise patents, especially in the racing world but after so many larger companies now hold IP on designs I refused to file IP on…..my perception has changed some. Its prob best if you just claim it’s patient pending. Won’t hold any water, but will be enough to deter someone from running with it. Then, manufacture a medium sized batch and sell them through the channel until someone eventually knocks you off from china.
Ohh ya,
Thank you for these “hands on” demonstration style educational content. This type of content is extremely beneficial for many of us. Even when you go over the basics. Viewers and creators alike, often forget that there’s many people in the audience whom are just starting. A full build series would be dope once your shop is complete. Something like an SB2.2 or trick 9°-13°. Go over choosing the components and cohesively/ strategically planning the build which might be difficult for some. Block selection, Circle track Cam selection including the dia amd firing order, lifter selection including the Dia, offset etc, and why, crank and stroke selection, head choices. Stuff most people really don’t show. They typically just say we’re building this with this, but don’t demonstrate the process. Showing newbies what to watch out for while assembling. Things people often overlook. We often here creators discuss cam selection but I’ve never heard any creator discus what makes a great cam for certain applications like circle track, just number chasing on the dyno. It would be cool to hear what you think makes a great CT cam and why. Dirt track vs pavement etc.
I can NOT believe that you haven’t gotten 1,000 likes yet! This is nothing more than common sense! Please contact me about your degree wheel. I’m just a sportsman drag racer that does everything but the machine work myself. Again. PLEASE take my money!!!
The man is handing out gold information while facing the harsh reality of a hurricane.
We can do better than just a like.
I hope you’re well Mr. Salter.
Man that degree wheel is damn cool...
Aint it tho
Amongst all the D measuring we see between the engine builders on YT I can say I really appreciate your clear and detailed info. As a guy just beginning to try and make sense of all this it makes a big difference when a guys not speaking through a haze of ego.
Thank you for sharing your experience with us Brian.
That's a cool comment.
Awesome. Thought we lost all that good info .
Camera guy has improved from his last video!
We used to change rocker ratios at the track as a tuning method. It would simulate moving the overlap advanced or retarded depending on which ratio combination you went with. We couldn't afford Dyno sessions back in the day
Man that was really good.....Thanks for sharing/and the clean-up and things lost during hurricane man.....hit here HARD in East TN. But I have power/water and a home....Prayers for those that lost it all.
Thanks buddy.
I been doing this stuff for over 40 years. I learnt something today. I’m in Sydney Australia. Love ur work ignore the hater’s.
When I was teaching Auto Shop, I had some students build up a 383 Chevy. Just to show them the relationship between lift at the lifter, lift at the valve, duration and overlap, I had them plot every degree for both the lifter and valves. (both intake and exhaust) then we graphed the results showing the relationship. There is a way to plot this in Excel. Very interesting. Also noted that there were some variations in the base circle. I can't remember whose cam that was.
Wish we would've done different rocker arms too.
Unfortunately, there weren't all that many kids that could stay tuned in for that much time. Something like a low buck Cam Dr. might have been helpful. Your .050" increments seem like a good compromise. Probably could just do .010" intervals in areas that seem to need a bit more attention.
This is certainly one of your best videos. As others have said, pushrod length would be a good one too.
Right now, I'm studying everything I can find on building a BIG BBC with total emphasis on low speed torque. 800 - 4000 rpm. Red line @ 5252 just to show HP & torque are the same at that rpm.
Sign me up for a degree wheel too (although I may make my version in the meantime)
WELL DONE! 🏁🏁You have found your focus. WITH a lifter/rocker TIP at the end!
Great video Mr. Salter. Now a follow up video on pushrod length and their effects on the valve train. Thank you.
That degree wheel design cancels out any parallax error a timing pointer set up could bring.
If it makes it to market, I’ll be obligated to buy one.
That is one nice instrument.
Salter crew, thank you for another very informative video. I'm enjoying them all and appreciate the education. My engine builder believes lift should be obtained through the camshaft and not through rockers. That's his response last week when I wanted 1.65 from 1.5 on my Pontiac.
I agree with you on lifter stability vs. aggresive fast camshaft ramps. Thanks for your input!
@@newcitycarpet3675 okay just want to make sure you know where I'm coming from on that I use very high rocker ratios when I'm trying to race hydraulic rollers or hydraulic flat topic
For All out Racing with no rules I will use between a 1.7 and a 1.8 rocker on most things
Yes, thank you for that reminder. You did mention that the hydraulic camshaft has limitations and the bigger ratios can work to there benefit regarding stability. Thanks again, I drag race a stock 1965 GTO by NHRA 1965 rules for the fun and the continued learning is fantastic.
great information and great explanation - much more difference with ratio change than we have been told
Hi. Thank you for sharing your knowledge. I definitely learned something today. Andrew
Get together with Powell Machine and make your degree wheels. He’s a machinist that knows what he’s doing and another good honest southern guy I’m sure y’all could make a hell of a product and do it for the little guys. Plus you always make more money with less overhead doing it yourself.
Thanks a lot for all that very interesting info! That's a very cool degree-wheel indicator idea😃 I especially appreciated you going through all the steps demonstrating how different the duration numbers can be depending on where the you are on the lobe; I hadn't even considered the fact that it could vary before but your video gave a very clear demonstration.
Valuable information.I've never seen anybody show on youtube yet!
Very interesting! There is a lot more going on than I originally thought.
Enjoyed this schoolin, always a great source of knowledge.
Thanks
That was excellent, thanks.
It's pretty awesome that you make these educational videos for everybody to see, free of charge.
I'm not always a fan of modern technology, but being able to watch in-class videos from CalTech, MIT etc and you on UA-cam is so cool.
I love the clock on the wall behind you. I used to have one. I loved that clock.
The circlip retainer is a dead giveaway that it's a solid lifter mate.
Great video I was wondering what happened to the last video I didn’t think it was bad but I love to learn and your years of experience you just can’t buy.
there’s a lot of people who have had hard time reading and learning but if there shone they pick it right up your helping me included your doing a great job keep the videos coming
Love your wheel! I can’t believe the difference. You are the only one who has showed the difference in duration between the two! Thank you for this information. I have always wondered about this issue. Way bigger issue than I was lead to believe big time. I have a small cam but it could really affect the overall situation on how this thing runs. Wow I am glad I found you. Thank you so much. Really!
Thank you Brian for the video. Praying for God to send you the resources needed to recover from the hurricane. I fallow you through your videos from here in Wentzville Missouri. 😊
Anyone can follow, few can lead. Keep doing your thing you can never go wrong being honest.
Nice tutorial! I learned a few things
I am making my own oil pressure shim washer adjusted shaft stands so you don’t have push rod guides or adjusters on rocker arm or push rod. My 1.8 are 1.937. My geometry is based on the furthest valve travel for push rod travel which is fastest off the seat. .100 offset 18mm 1.5 deep Certs I make which close the hole in the intake port and seal water jacket in exhaust. These allowed 3/8” 3” arp tall studs but they are girdled above the shaft. I have to make tall covers and I am looking for some short hat stem seals. Between you and DV you really got me going! Don’t let your stuff rust, WD40, oil, grease!
Can't thank you enough for sharing your knowledge and experience. Clear and very detailed. I learned a ton from these two videos.
Would love to get one of those degree wheels. Please do have them made. I'm a customer!
I love your videos you have so much knowledge and are so humble I'll be retiring in 3 more years. And I'm 63 years old and been street racing sense 1976. I just built a 88 monte carlo SS with a big block 439 it's a decent street engine it's got a howards hyd roller afr heads all good rotating assembly and it's right at 11 to 1 compression. I do have a solid roller for it that is quite a bit bigger it's the comp 294r so it's right at 260 duration x 666 lift on a 110 lsaim hoping this cam swap will give me about 30 more hp that would make my engine right at making 700 hp. And that's not bad for a NA pump gas street car. Also I have a lil 406 that I'm getting ready to make it a 421. I sure wish I had all your knowledge. Thanks for the video and I will be keeping you in my prayers I do know the affects of bad hurricanes I live in louisiana and what Katrina did my home town outside of need Orleans let's just say it will never be the same in my lifetime. So my prayers are with you.
thanks for doing this,,,,went threw over 50 stamped rockers for a work truck before to get 8 close enough ,,,,and a few beers lol
Class in session
Thanks again man I have learned a lot already. Your a really good dude to take time out of your schedule to help educate simple people like me. Especially while dealing with a hurricane!? You must be built different.👍
I’ve also learned that no two brands can be the same either. One may be way more aggressive I guess you could say, than the other. They change ratio dependent on where they are in the lift point of the rocker as well, where the push rod cup is located, makes a big deal on the ratio. It may be more like 1.8 when closed, then be closer to 1.6 at half lift. Love learning this stuff! Good stuff dude! That degree wheel is really slick too by the way!
Like all great ideas, this has the why didn't I think of that! What one gets out of this, is check each valve!!!!! So thankyou Mr. Salter. Sorry about your stuff and I have commented before the end. Cheers big ears!
Wow that was a great video explained things so well and helped me see how much is involved in this now obviously very important step of putting an engine together. Thank you.
Awesome stuff. Once again
I did something similar on a 5.0 and with AFR 195 Renegade heads. It's an early Ford E cam that I went to a 1.82 Scorpion rocker. That little 5.0 really runs good like that.
Thanx for a good lesson TEACH!
Thanks for taking the time out of your busy schedule for the awesome video. Hopefully, doing this will keep your mind off of things, thanks!
Your videos are great!! I learn something every time I watch them.. I have watch some of them more then once!! lol
Very informative. I will put it use on the current engine I am building. Thanks
Good show, thank you 👍👍👍
OUTSTANDING
Excellent video Brian. Would you consider doing a similar video showing the same effects you have here with different push rod lengths? For example a push rod length sized for Mid Lift geometry with a 1.6:1 rocker and a push rod length sized to set the geometry as Low Pivot with 1.6:1 rockers. It's interesting to see the gains and losses when the operating arc of the rocker tip is changed via the pushrod length.
Great stuff, please keep it coming.
Thank you
Awesome video. Love the degree wheel.
Right... Never use hydraulic lifter for degreeing...
I’m a rookie at engine building for sure. I’m planning to rebuild the 4.3 v6 in my 93 Chevy truck. I’ve been researching OE cams and because the after market cams are too aggressive for my daily driver . After watching this video I think that going from a 1.5 to a 1.6 rocker could give this engine the extra power I’m looking for. Also keep in mind that this is an experiment for fun .
My old man taught me that you should soak your lifters overnight before you build the engine that way when you go to fire it up and set valve lash it works better and is safer and easier as well.
I don't even build that many engines and I would love that degree wheel. Hoping you get it to market.
Woah i made it!
Thank you.
Thanks for sharing your info. 👍🏻
Great information
Can you explain why using a 1.5 rocker on exhaust and 1.6 rocker on intake on a solid roller is an advantage on a race engine? Thanks for sharing all your knowledge
This, I would like to hear also.
@@josephverdone7099 well it's what we call using split ratios and basically it's the same thought process as using a dual pattern camshaft.
You don't necessarily need a very fast valve action on the exhaust side and you can do most of what you need done on the exhaust side with the cam lobe and a relatively easy rocker. But I have used both split ratios and straight across ratios and depending on which one I use I might have more of a change in my camshaft lobes with the straight across ratios and they might be more closer together when I'm running split rocker ratios. But opening the intake valve faster means you're getting that valve out of the way ( at least as much as possible) so that the Piston can have full access to the port on the downward intake stroke because your valve is your restriction. So having a fast valve action on the intake is always a plus and it does help stock engines as well that's why people change the rocker ratios on their stock vehicles. A lot of why the factory doesn't do it is they will use the camshaft split itself or they don't do split rocker ratios because of manufacturing costs. But then again they're trying to build stuff that gets great fuel mileage has great vacuum and idol smoothly. So a different agenda altogether.
@@SalterRacingEngines Thank you.
I would love to have one of those degree wheels
Wow, duration and lift every 0.050. Thanks!
I often hear people that tend to assume that just swapping from say a 1.6 to 1.7 ratio rocker is going to make more power automatically. Assuming everything in the valve train can handle the increased intensity of the valve movement would you say this is true in your experience? Have you often found you have to move the cam timing around to take full advantage of the the higher ratio rocker to make more power? A lot of variables at play just speaking in general here.
I want one of these degree wheels! Take my money, PLEASE!!
When you was spec'ing the 1.5 rocker, i think you was reading the wheel backwards. Unless that was intentional.
@@aaronanderson6892 no I wasn't you have to transpose the numbers and I forgot to do that for everybody
I'm telling you man there's always something I forget to do and I'm making a video
Stuff I do everyday when I make a video it seems like I forget it
@@SalterRacingEngines no worries my friend. I thought my eyes and ears was playing tricks on each other, hahaha.
Thank you for sharing and teaching! I learned a bunch.
How much valve clearance do you need as minimum at 7, 10 degrees? 50 thou?
👍
Why do they add 4* ground into the cam? Why not just make it what they advertise?
I don't understand... or is there something I'm not seeing?
@@rubyr.4812 great question I never do that that's a Shelf stock cam
I think the manufacturers do it because they worry about it not performing well when cars take off from a standstill it will give the engine a little more take off acceleration but to me it always hurts them in the end but I'm talking strictly from a race point of view.
When I grind a camshaft I install it on the LSA I had it made on
I always thought it allowed them to spec the same cam for different customers. If you have heavier car you might need more power at the bottom.
@@cuzz63 that's exactly right when you have a heavy car you have more acceleration from takeoff and that's what I was saying earlier it gives you more lower RPM torque but it always hurts you on the top end horsepower
@@SalterRacingEngines I am aware of doing things like this a car my lose HP but may have a faster ET which is what the customer wanted. Also why I assumed the cam company would send those instructions...instead of custom grinds for each customer they would take one off the shelf that was close and have to install it retarded or advanced based on other factors. I dont know if my assumption is true or not though.
@@cuzz63 it sounds like you're exactly correct
Custom grinds cost a lot more or I should say they just in general cost more now imagine you paid the extra money and waited the extra time to get a custom camshaft and when you put it in it was just completely wrong unless you had absolutely everything to do with the grind you most likely are going to blame the cam company for a referring you to get a cam like that so it kind of helps them avoid being blamed for bad choices by making shelf cams that you choose and then you can't blame it on them when it doesn't perform. At least I think that's a lot of it and a lot of times what you need is on the shelf anyways Italy's first Street stuff one of the main things I don't like about shelf cams is the LSA but other than that a lot of them are very close to it they should be as far as what's available in the book
The ratio/lift is dependent on the line through the 3 contact points versus valve stem at right angle, the sweep
its just a simple lever.
Graph lift to degree rotation to see the curve difference from the profile curve.
Are you better off to have a long rocker or a short one? ( assuming you move the stud away from the valve)
That was really interesting, quick question, on a street car what would you prefer, the intake lift be higher or lower then the exhaust lift, solid flat tappet cam?
Good one.
The deeper one is the solid. Don't forget pushrod length difference, folks.
How do you ever lose ?
That's one Trick degree wheel Salter
I have a sbc edelbrock hyd roller .234-.238 @.050 .539-.548 lift 112 lsa. in the instructions it says in all caps ONLY USE STOCK RATIO ROCKERS. is that to keep oil in the lifters or somthing else. if i run solid lifters on it can i then go to a 1.6 rocker?. thanks for all the great info you are sharing
@@fyffeal well that's a great question and I think it's best answered by saying one reason Edelbrock does that is because it changes the cam card information as you saw in my video and they don't know if people who are buying their camshafts understand that so they stay on the safe side of things by telling people to use only the stock Rock arm because that's what the cam card was designed to be ran with. Due to the fact I do not know the heat treat process on the Edelbrock cam I would highly recommend you call their tech department before you make changes to valve springs and rocker arms and solid lifters. Just to be safe
If it was in my shop and I was building it I could certainly set it up to do that but I do not want to speak for them.
@@SalterRacingEngines ok thank you very much for the answer. i will call them . love the videos and good luck in the cam challenge!
Not all the blame on the rocker arm. What's the concentricity of the roller on the tip? A small accumulation of chain lengths and gear tooth location will skew the numbers.
You need to also put a degree wheel on the cam at the same time to know where you're at.
Mike
I hit that like button 3 times
Good evening my father and I was watching about the rockers. I noticed your tool (Awesome) !!!! Is there any chance I can purchase one as a surprise gift for dad. Please let me know. Thank you very much.
Have you had any problems with flat tappet cams wearing out prematurely. I know you said worn lifter bores are the cause. So if lifter bore is correct, cam and lifter should rotate as intended.
How close to 1.5 are stock SBC GM steel lifters and how are the tolerances? Thanks.
Put some hair around it. ❤
Brian, so if you order your camshaft with a 1.5 rocker ratio is there any power to be lost vs a 1.6 or 1.7 ratio?
@@joemathews278 absolutely not most of the time you going to get gaines from it
I'm not going to say all the time but for sure most of the time
If you have a low compression ratio you can go too far
I'm building a new 588 big block mopar and I have worried about this night after night laying down for bed lol. I have 1.5 rockers and felt like I'm leaving something on the table. Comp is building my custom cam any day now for my new engine. You have made me sleep better tonight with your knowledge! I trust you 100% thank you Brian!!
Yes, DONT FORGET TO LIKE COMMENT AND SUBSCRIBE!!!!
As I have said earlier,I wish I come to you a year gone I obviously didnt know you from Australia I have all new aluminium 9.8 4.600 BRODIX BBC In Ohio to come to Australia. Parts already purchasedin a supposed turbo combo , to ask you to complete build would not be rite for you.Would like to get in touch to see your possible completion ? changes needed, I have spend a lot a fortune BRODIX SR 20 heads jesel mowhork steel pro rockers was to be basic ,oh well .I am concerned about combo listening I do know the rings I made him get the height In your video you stated is a must .Thank you
If you keep the oil pump primed with a drill while rolling over, won’t that keep it up for degreeing?
En f’ckin genius! Holy chit!!
Brrrrrbrrrrr!!!!! I’m ready now!! Lmaooo!
You don't need to check the valve/piston clearance when the intake closes. The piston is far from the valve then, not even halfway up the cylinder. Otherwise it was a very rewarding video, like your protractor very much
I was looking for someone to make this comment. The intake closes after abdc. I'm sure he just had a brain fart.
Maybe he meant exhaust
PATENT IT!!!!!!!
Who needs a cam doctor?
I am still confused about duration. I imagined that it is how long it takes from the cam to lift and stop lifting? Just curious
Because, in my mind it's fixed
Very informational presentation but your results may not be optimal because your indicator probe wasn't running inline with the valve stem. Your results where the more the valve is open the more the results were different may not be the same as what the valve may be seeing? So that extra lift you were experiencing could of been from the angle of the indicator probe moving at a different ratio as the valve because of the different angles?
To test what I have wrote, setup your indicator at the angle you had it on in the video as close as you can and do your lift measurement and write it down. Then set the probe as close as you can to traveling on the same angle as the valve stem and recheck your lift measurement. If they are different you might want to make sure in future testing that your indicator probe is traveling as close to the same angle as the valve for more accurate measuring?
If you ever used machine shop trigonometry to find the lengths of the 3 sides of a right angle triangle you would know the hypotenuse is always longer than the other 2 sides that are on the 90° right angle. And the angle the indicator was on was the longer hypotenuse. This could be the extra ratio you measured and why it increased the more it opened?
I'm not totally sure if this will make a difference or not because I have never tried it before I usually try to get the probe as close to the valve stem angle by eye as I can. It looked like you were about 10° to 20° different than the valve stem angle.
Just something you might want to consider if you do the above comparison and the results differ.😎👍
It part of the human condition we all vuck up sometimes😂.
🤯
Wire lock is hydraulic
I think that’s what us old guys call, a mile of piston to valve 😂😂😂😂! Seems we all learned things the same way 🤷🤷🤷🤷! Hydraulics were called sissy sticks 😝😝😝😝!
What I have done for development, is calculated the delivered rocker ratio at the valve, for every ten degrees of crank rotation and then you can target the peak ratio point for wherever you think it needs the most amplification to the cam profile. Commonly, that would be peak piston velocity, though I think Billy Godbold has said that from a design standpoint, it could be better another way. You would have to test or be working with someone like him to achieve the best results.
This is achieved by moving the fulcrum up or down and altering push rod length. It's actually super simple once you understand the geometry of it. For rockers without an adjuster on the push rod side, you have less control over the delivered ratio, so checking different brands to find the one that does what you want might be necessary.