Demasking with The Super Separator Trick - the Bitwig way!
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- Опубліковано 2 жов 2024
- In this video I demonstrate a Bitwig audio rack preset I built, which makes it super easy to apply "The Super Separator Trick" (mirrored comb filtering) to perform some real de-masking voodoo. (EDIT: Also check out the "Part 2" video where I show you how to minimize the audible comb filtering. • Ermagerd! Sounds Bad! ... ). I got this idea from a recent Dan Worrall video explaining how he does this in Reaper. In the video I also explain how you can find and download this preset if you're a Bitwig user.
Video link to the original Dan Worrall video. It's a fantastic technique; thanks so much, Dan, for sharing this with the community!
• The Super Separator Trick
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I don't get it. To me the super separated version sounded worse. I listened with JBL 305 monitors as well as a pair of Sennheiser HD 515 monitoring headphones (so not the best possible, but I know them pretty well) and in both I hear a drop in clarity and impact. A distinct comb filter effect is introduced which ruins the sound to me. Like I want to understand why everyone thinks this is better and I want this to work but to me it just doesn't sound like it does.
It just all depends on the larger mix context. A LOT of very solid mixing decisions we make sound **subjectively worse** when you A/B any given sound's processing in a solo context. But in the context of the full mix, what sounds subjectively **worse** in solo can often end up sounding subjectively **better** in the context of a full mix. Also, I was using the maximum comb filtering possible to make the differences easy to hear. That "Attenuate" knob you see sitting in the rack? It reduces the depth of the mirrored comb filters, which helps you find a sweet spot where the improvement is subtle but noticeable, and yet the audible comb filtering is reduced.
Check the "Part 2" video where I show you how to minimize the audible comb filtering. ua-cam.com/video/KWMnYwhCoGk/v-deo.html
amazing! please show us in ableton!!! lol big tip :)
Hi, Love your videos, sometimes pulling out some tips and tricks you share. Thanks for that.. Seems like super separated version sounds like it has some phase issues compared to original.. the original version sounded pretty decent... i guess a simple Pan will do for me here.
Check out the "Part 2" video where I show you how to minimize the audible comb filtering. ua-cam.com/video/KWMnYwhCoGk/v-deo.html
I love in that bitwig if something doesn’t exist, you can just build it! Cheers for this device and I will also be grabbing your erosion copy. It was on my list of things to try and replicate, so I’m curious to check it out!
Wow thanks man. Very kind.
Awesome! I love what you can do in Bitwig! But since I'm stuck in Logic, I tried the COMB plugin by Kilohearts - you just have to sync the "cutoff" frequency via Logic's smart controls.
I need a Ableton version that is just as good as your build.. Please share if you find it
Hello, i was just experimenting with this technique in ableton and i found this construction and i believe its correct but not really sure. > So i have 2 signal tracks with similar freq content, then i duplicate both and with those copys i choose " audio to: sends only". So i made a return track only for these 2. Now on one of the sends load an utility plugin and invert the phase on both left and right channel. Now load up a delay plugin in the send track like voxengo sound delay is a good one for this and its free. Now play with the delay time a bit. I hope it works :) grts.
@@bartjelories Thanks for sharing will try it out
@@bartjelories can u make a video about it?
Reaper rules, you actually only use one track to do this trick, in addition to the two tracks of the two fighting elements. Bitwig looks reaaaally powerfull to tho.
They're all good DAWgs, Brandt. 13/10 would pet again!
Rockstar. Cheers.
Nice trick to know, I guess. Yes, pad pokes through much better. But arp becomes weird, more narrow, loses definition and sounds too phasy (to my taste). I wish you did AB of arp solo, maybe I am wrong, but listening to AB comparison part blindly (like you teach us), I would chose no demasking 10 times out of 10. Maybe it is useful when one of sounds is sacrificable enough in full mix.
Yep, it's always a subjective judgement call on these types of things.
I want a plugin that makes that without using delay, what can u guys recomend?
This is just one of MANY techniques for de-masking. If you want the easy, simple way to de-mask, IMO the best overall plugin is "smart:comp 2" by Sonible. Use its "spectral ducking" mode. It's the best dynamic de-masker out there; no question.
Remember though, before you use a de-masker on two clashing signals, it's always best to use basic pass filters to give each of the sounds that happen at the same time their own general "focus" in the spectrum. Take care of that basic step first, and then use a de-masker if you're still hearing them fight too much in the part of the spectrum where they still overlap each other slightly.
A classic case where you MUST use a demasker is for helping vocals "sit on top" of a mix. Vocals need a wide spectral range to sound natural, so you really have no choice but to dynamically duck everything else to the vocals.
I use smartcomp with spectral ducking mode on, isn't that better Baphy?
IMO usually, yes, that will produce very good results. (And is what I usually do, if simple "EQ slotting" isn't enough. For example, when you need to duck everything else to the vocals.) The subject of this video is a special-case trick.
@@Baphometrix Great, thank you !
nice bitwig tool, I've always found setting stuff like this up quite tedious as I don't use this type of technique very often. I create something simmilar in patcher for FL studio but i think i prefer the bitwig device for sure. Thanks :)
About filters. I knew before making the switch (and it happened last week when I watched your entire CTZ series, after a year of thinking about it. Threads usage made me do it. Also busses) a part of Bitwig FXs (arguarbly, high frequencies-eating distortions) and filters were subpar compared to Live. I notice you're using only neutral filters here, no XP or SVF. What do you think about it ? Do you try, outside the Grid, to use the less precise native stuff (I try to do that when there's a possibility) or will you systematically use VSTs ?
Don't get me wrong, I don't say it's bad. I'm literally in love with Bitwig, partly because they made an insane template for Maschine, but primarily because everything is so clever. Besides minor stuff I don't like, this software is nuts and paired with the Kilohearts ecosystem, it becomes a mighty weapon.
I was trying to recreate the feedforward filter that Dan Worrall was getting in his video. Overall, I tend to use 3rd party VSTs for FX, but I love all of Bitwig's "utility" devices and basic DAW features and its impressive audio routing.
WOOHOO!
Dear Baphometrix after watching this and wondering how to set it up in FL Studio or Cakewalk, I stumbled upon the notion of just using a stock modulator on Flanger mode with the LFO turned of. Everything gets turned down apart from the delay and phase invert are usually part of the plugins. My question is can I use a static Flanger as this is essentially a comb filter. Im not an expert and would love your input on whether this is a viable tool. Many thanks in advance
The attenuation is the wet/dry mix ?
It’s saying the rack no longer exists on installation
Very nice Baphy! The logic or protools way would be nice. 😂
Since they don't have any "grid" or modular thing like Bitwig (as far as I know), you should be able to do it the Dan Worall's way, like in Reaper. You may have to use busses or auxes to send the audio wherever you want, and if you can't flip the polarity on individuals send you may have to do it with a specific plugin, and maybe use an additional track to do so.
at 5:48 you said you would start with the masked muddy version but it looks like to started with the super spreader version. Please can you confirm this?
Yes, that's starting with the two original tracks that mask each other.
@@Baphometrix Oh i see you were muting. Thanks for the reply.
Nice one
I wish I can use bitwig.
You definitely should! :)
@@elossa yeah
How to do it in Studio one?
Nice breakdown. Is this possible in Ableton?
you will need ddmf metaplugin 64
@RAYSHIO You can just set up an instrument rack with the two sounds you want this to apply to and then create an audio effect rack with a dry and delay chain for each of the sounds. On one of the delayed chains put a utility before the delay and invert the polarity, then map the delay to a macro and the volume of the wet to another macro at the start where the instrument rack is to easily control them.
@@ByTranceh Even better. Tbh I didn't even check the chain properly, thought you'll need something like FL's patcher to do it.
Yes. Sidechain listen is a friend here.
Are you battleing with Dan? :D
Naw... I really appreciate his content.
@@Baphometrix may you please make a Studio One 5 version of this video if you can. Please
Sounds like out of phase
In this video, the effect is exaggerated to make it easy to understand what's happening. In this "part 2" video, I show you how to minimize the audible comb-filtering and still get the benefit of the technique. ua-cam.com/video/KWMnYwhCoGk/v-deo.html
@@Baphometrix thanks Im checking it now and the new chapter of CTZ 21
So basically each sound has a specific short delay to phase cancel itself, to make it less present in the spectrum? So other sounds fit as well? Did I get this right? BTW I will try this method in FL Studio's Patcher plugin to see how it will sound. Thanks in advance.
Yep. You're using a super short delay in parallel with the original dry try to create a comb filter. Do the same thing on a different sound and flip the phase before the delay. Now two comb filters that mirror each other on different sounds.