Timestamps: 0:00-1:24 Enter, The Virgin Barbell Row 1:24-2:40 The Big 5 alone will kill your bodybuilding potential 4:40-5:45 Rows are for hoes, but not big biceps 5:45-7:03 Rows for low reps are foolish. 7:03-8:00 Oonga bunga aLl CoMpOuNdS aRe ThE mAsTeR RaCe 8:00-10:00 Barbell Rows Overlap with Hip hinges because they ARE a hip hinge 10:00-10:45 Novices barely know how to deadlift, what makes you think they can row? 10:50-11:20 The Row is technical, so just deadlift 12:00-13:00 String Cheese Hamstrings and Paper Thin Spinal Erectors 15:00-18:30 People progress on Rows but they never use their back 18:30-21:00 Muh Deadlift Carryover 21:00-23:30 Pull Ups Mog Barbell Rows for Back Hypertrophy 23:30-28:00 How to properly do rows for hypertrophy 28:00-30:30 The Chad Dumbbell Row
@@DYELGAINZ Well, when it comes to Pendlay Row at least, NH himself makes novices do it too (not for the laterals though, in fact it's a shame if one can't do pull ups yet because he would be set for anything lats and upper back related).
A clarification on the amount of leg involvement in bb rows as I'm afraid I wasn't clear: The issue isn't that you're involving the full body to complete the lift, the problem is that you're turning something that was scheduled as an upper back movement into a hip hinge. Typically, this happens slowly: you start doing your 5x5 on rows, and realize that there is absolutely no way for you to keep progressing at the rate the program tells you to if you keep it strict, so you start to cheat a bit. Weeks go by, and before you know it you're doing full on Rubbish rows while still telling yourself that you're training your upper back, which is not true. This is what happened to me on Coan rows: my focus on strength progression ended up nullifying the very reason for their existence in the program. Don't make that mistake.
I like bodyweight rows for novices. There are tons of ways to make the movement harder and if you're a novice you can probably still make gains off of it.
Problem with them is that even slight leg placement deviation will fuck progression hard and you can't just chalk the ground if you do em at the gym. One arm pulldowns and mitch rows or lat pull ins are the best and easist exercise anyway so might as well do only them and maybe like woolam rows and or deadlifts if even
@@krishnagodale3200 I was kinda confused because I thought of unilateral rows with a towel, so to make it biased towards one side (idk if that's a thing for rows, but it is for pullups)
i've done barbell rows from the beginning and the first signs of muscle mass i got was my upper back and rear delts and it was all barbell rows, because that was the only upper back movement i did, so of course i have attached to them, why not if they gave me good fucking results right of the bat and continued to give me results. Barbell rows has given me so much muscle mass that i will never stop doing them
notice how he said "there's no such thing as a bad lift"... I do barbell rows as well, and really enjoy them, but the argument here is they require programming and technical skills a novice usually doesn't have
@@showmaesas squats and bench requires way more technical skill than bb rows. And yes you need to program them properly, but then again novices usually don't know how to program any lift, so there goes that argument as well
@@ollvi probably squats, yes but there are certain details on the barbell rows that make them quite hard, that shit just damaged my lowerback and I didnt feel something on the back, Pull ups, have been superior for my back development and are more funny
hi Croissant man, just apply this `mindset` into my back training exercise and my lats havent felt this good in awhile, this video is an absolute reality check for me, thank you
I always found it funny how it's programmed as a base level movement when it's actually incredibly difficult to do a legit bent over row with good form. I've been doing them like Woolam for a while and my form still sucks.
@@Wayf4rer You're making it seem like rocket science for no reason. It's NOT hard to get the form down correctly. It requires mobility in the hamstrings to establish a pretty horizontal hinged position, and it requires good knowledge on how to breathe & brace (preferably for the whole set).
@freddykisback123 yes. Renaissance periodization, jeff nipples/ nipplehard/ nips/ nippard, geoffrey verity schofield and NH himself all repeat a similar style of finding movements that work for you, and list the most commonly effective methods of programming for progress. It's a trial and error thing as it's highly individual and changes as you progress but there are accepted fundamentals to consider that could keep you from spinning your wheels for too long
Have to agree, when I did bent over/barbell rows, my legs and lower back were the most affected area and were the limiting factor rather than my upper back and arms. Switched over to bodyweight rows and feeling the tension in the appropriate areas.
This video should be WEAPONIZED against novice programs. Literally golden tidbits. I wanted to add my personal experience but this video literally covers everything
My back gained the most mass from bent over barbell rows. It was noticeable. Workout out for about a year and saw minimal mass gains in my back. Started rowing and within 3 months I was a different person, people literally thought I started doing steroids. But no. I started doing rows.
Edit: OK, I managed to watch it all. You already said what I said, so yeah. I actually agree with you. In spite of the huge progress I made on rows as a beginner and intermediate, they are extremely taxing, are prone to injuries, and are difficult to perform accurately. For novices, I think you're absolutely right. I didn't always row right. The reality was though, I built my upper back mainly doing rows. I didn't do DB rows, Seal rows, Helms row, Meadows row, I did Barbell rows. I added DB rows and seated cable rows in at various points, and Chest-supported rows became quite common in my programs. But I'm still convinced that I built my upper back with Barbell rows. Pull-ups are 100% better than BB rows. Totally agree. Love the idea of using rows as a back-off set after a heavy deadlift. I learned about Deadlift Rows from Cailer Woolam three years ago, who said that his favourite deadlift accessory was the Deadlift Row, which is essentially a pull from the floor and then a Yates Row at the top. He says its primary goal is to use the hamstrings and glutes to control the weight. So you're absolutely right. I'm gonna try and watch all of this, but I don't know if I have time. For now I just wanna say, I started rowing when I began lifting and became quite good at it. I reached the stage where I was able to row as much as I could bench, which very few others in my gym could do. It helped a lot with my upper back development. That is now the most muscular part of my body. But it is an incredibly taxing exercise, and I screwed up on a couple of occasions that resulted in minor injuries. It's basically one of the main compound lifts. Deadlifts, Squats, Bench Press, OHP, Barbell Row, and maybe I'd put Pull-ups in there as well. It's one of the fundamentals. But yeah, if you do them, you have to treat them like a heavy compound lift-with respect.
I used to do pendlay rows but I could only do 5-6 reps (because there are only hexa plates in my gym and 2 rounded plates 55 lbs each , it sucks) ,so I decided to get a stronger back and then I will do pendlay rows again.
@@AVB15 You get to work your upper back without putting a lot of stress on the lower back. Also, with machines grip won't be as much of an issue as with barbells.
@@mitchelllukovsky6197 Yeah but wouldn’t barbell rows have more carry over to deadlifts? Also I personally treat rows as serious as any other compound lift for me the extra stress is worth it.
@@AVB15 >wouldn't barbell rows be better because they have more carryover to deadlifts You know what has more carryover to deadlifts than rows? Deadlifts. The point of rowing is to stimulate the middle back. With machine rows, you can stimulate the target muscles (the middle back) without taxing the lower back and posterior chain like barbell rows do. Since you now have less stress on the lower back and posterior chain, you can program in more deadlifts.
I switched from barbell rows to meadows rows a couple of months back because I just thought they were better. with meadows rows I can actually feel my back when rowing and it's nuts. 10/10 won't do bb rows for a long time
I'd like to say both my floating and pendlay style barbell rows are immaculate for their intended purpose, I did them from the very start. Explosive concentric and controlled eccentric. I can feel a brutal stretch in the rhomboids. They've build my upper body power generation like nothing else. I favour vertical pulls nowadays but I always hit my barbell rows and prefer them over all other variations.
Yup, "All compounds = good" to most people. I feel pullups and chins are more important in compound heavy programs cause they give the back a chance to decompress. Rows are just redundant, I used to do em all the time, now I switch them with pull ups and machines variants when my low back needs a break or keep them light and pump up the upper back before doing my presses
Great video. I personally have already experienced for myself how BB rows can be difficult to program, because I deadlift and squat twice a week and my posterior chain needs ample time to recover. Currently experimenting with working them into my program though and will be attentive to how my body responds.
The original Starting Strength and Stronglifts seem to emphasize rows as a deadlift variation, alternating the two between training days. The problem is that because DLs are equated with rows and not squats, they are seen as an upper _and_ lower back exercise and not one for the posterior leg muscles, and people then go on to neglect any actual hamstring or hinge work when switching to a different upper back exercise. Then the Reddit variation of GreySkull LP came along at some point establishing barbell rows as a separate movement to DLs (as part of the "Big 6"), but this results in the loading and fatigue problems you mentioned. Out of all of the exercise selection/minimalism dogmas this is one I was fortunate to not have fallen into. I discovered an article about inverted rows and did that first, then moved to cable rows and later DB rows as my staple, so when I came across the posts recommending BB rows I just stuck with the row variation I was already doing.
Since I'm an exceptional novice who rows with proper form and weight (and doesn't deadlift or squat on the same day) I feel my upper back work properly on barbell rows. Lower back is used only for stability but it has never felt like the limiting factor.
I remember when I used to listen to alpha destiny and he almost deluded me into thinking that strict form rows were useless and I should just go as heavy as I could because of the stretch
That fool said that strict rows have a higher injury risk than cheat rows. Amazes me how everyone just forgot how trash his advice used to be. I saw so many comments mentioning that they hurt their back, neck, etc, listening to him.
@@joshmoronstein That's a strawman. Doing a glorified deadlift or RDL can put LOTS of pressure on your back too. They're also a ballistic exercise using supramaximal loads - bad combination.
Barbell rows have been one of my main back movements for years now and I always have some variation of it in my routine but I get where you're coming from. It's not really a good idea to program them in conjunction with other really core demanding exercises for people who aren't used to high volume lower back work. I attribute a lot of my lower back resilience to barbell rows.
Just gotta point out that in Starting Strength we don't include rows in the novice program, and I have to remind everyone that it's not a physique/hypertrophy program. Intermediate and advanced mf's only. At that point it's either pendlay (basically cheat rows) as a lighter variation for the deadlift or a more strict row if the client has specific physique goals. But yeah, the row is not going to progress well if you try to do 3x5 and add 5lbs each session. Gotta get creative and program it more like a typical assistance movement. Check out Andy Baker's (Starting Strength Coach) videos on rows if you're curious. That's basically the style that you're promoting, and that's the one I prefer to use to build up the back.
Absolutely love barbell rows and I definitely got a lot of back development from them in my first few years of lifting, but as I get more and more advanced I find that at the end of a training cycle the tax on my lower back gets wayy too intense and it definitely takes away from my deadlifts especially. So I prefer doing chest supported rows for my horizontal pull nowadays. But I will occasionally have training blocks with some form of barbell rows, there are few exercises that you can overload the back like you can with bb rows. Pretty much the king of back exercises along with weighed pull ups and chin ups for me. It's just the damn lower back that has to ruin everything
Blahblahbleena just made a recent video in response to you saying rows are superior to pull ups. You really got to him this time hes just triggered cos he cant even do a pull up.
I actually program pendlay rows two days a week. A lighter hypertrophy day and a heavier "explosive" day. On light day I focus on strict form, only using my arms and back. On heavy day, I treat it as more of a deadlift assistance exercise. I use my legs and lower back to accelerate the bar and finish it with my arms and back.
I don't use pendlay rows as a "strength" exercise as in like squats and deadlifts. I know that novice programs like them because of the simplicity, since most novices can't do pull ups. I use pendlays after the big lifts and do them with lower weights completely parallel with the floor for strict 10-12 reps. I find 99% of novices do not know how to get into position for a proper pendlay and it's really hard to correct it without being there in person. A seated good morning is the best way for people to understand the mechanics of how to get into a proper pendlay row lumbar position. But an inverse row can be substituted if you don't have lower body recovery leftover. I don't feel a proper pendlay is that taxing on the lower body once you get accustomed to it, it requires a lot of isometric contraction at a stretched state which can get your hamstrings really sore at first, but not much concentric if done properly. The only argument against the pendlay row as an exercise is for someone who does a lot of running/sprinting For novices without a person to watch them, inverse rows and band assisted chin ups are king imo. And empty bar good mornings are good for gaining mobility to eventually get into proper pendlay position
Most of your points are correct but I still think they're a great back/posterior chain builder. It's the only row you can lift heavy weight with. Even if it's not targeted and it's messy, it's still heavy weight and will give you great gains. I guess you do plateau a bit when your lower back becomes the limiting factor but you can progress around it
Agree and I’ll add; novices shouldn’t back squat (they’ll turn it into a good morning), conventional deadlift (rdl’s only for 6-8 months) or bench press (use some kind of machine instead). Bb rows can be programmed once a trainee is strong in the rdl (how strong idk) but for beginners some kind of chest support is best.
I understand the chance of your seeing this is slim but whatever: has your philosophy regarding bb rows changed? you have bb rows on the Friday workout of your new novice program released today 15.06.2023
with all due respect sometimes videos like this are done only for clicks, so now row is bad, don't do it etc just for shocking people, rows and barbell row are great for back, and novice needs them even more. why change it when it works so well!!?
Personally as a novice I do them pendlay row style though I actually try to control the eccentric for high reps typically (10-15 ). I quickly realized 3x5 on rows is just dumb and it makes more sense not to care about the weight on the bar. I focus more on chinups/ pullups and see rows as an accessory.
yass!!! this is EXACTLY true... I was rowing with dumbbells... later I went upstairs and I felt like I was flying up the stairs... I told my partner that this I isometric deadlift
I think the big mistakes in the way most novices do rows are that they are doing them in the wrong rep ranges (too low) and don't know how to deadlift properly by pulling the slack out of the bar while maintaining mid-foot balance and not letting the hips shoot up. With more efficient pulls off the floor I think people would be less likely to be very fatigued from rows (off the floor to be specific). And if they are programmed for 6-12 reps as they should, I think the fatigue cost would be reduced even more, and people with efficient deadlift setups would be able to hold that position a lot easier since the load is quite submaximal at this point. An "intermediate" lifter who can deadlift 400+ lbs for reps doing 225 with a small or moderate amount of body english would probably not be fazed much with a nice setup But in the end, I think this is a personal preference and individual response thing. Some people love barbell rows and progress fine on their other pulling/back variations just fine, and leverages may have something to do with it. But I think novices who don't know how to deadlift efficiently would be best served to learn the movement after they learn to deadlift.
For me db rows requires more core stability since the weight is only on one side of your body, once you go heavy on those you do need a lot of core stability
I love barbell rows a lot, but not for novices. My goal is to do 4 sets of 20 reps with 3 plates @85kg bodyweight (maybe 90)! Keep the core solid and fix it, torso between 90° and 60° inclination, hamstrings activated, bring the elbow to the hips without squeezing the hands too much, release the tension and go back to starting point. That's one rep for lats. If you bring the barbell to the heart level, that's one rep for upper back, rear delts and more biceps than the first type of execution. I train barbell rows with almost perfect form with 2 plates in the progression scheme of 8x8 -> 6x12 -> 5x15 -> 4x20 with 2' rest between sets. Great pump in the lats, small fatigue on hamstrings and zzeeeeeero lower back pain If you bring your hips back enough, bend the knees and choose the right inclination of the torso, then the line of gravity goes to the foot which means that if you push your heel to the ground, the force will be applied by the glutes and hamstrings to stabilize the whole body and allow for a safe movement. It takes time, but not more than it would take to learn a proper deadlift (which I personally could never learn)
The key with bent over rows is not to go too heavy. If you go too heavy, all the pressure goes to your lower back and when I use a lighter weight I can really control the squeeze at the top which is harder when going heavier. However, when I go heavier I feel like my whole body has been worked, so i usually do one heavy set and then go a bit lighter but with more control.
I'm unfortunate/fortunate in that I have a chronic back injury hence have not squatted, deadlifted or performed rdls in years. Only other hip hinge I include are hypers and nordic curls, plus I strengthen the erectors separately with torso extensions with a light dumbbell. Hence there is plenty of "money in the bank" for my erectors to tolerate bb rows in a deficit style and not suffer unduly. A current rehab programme to improve lumbar and hip mobility has also helped me greatly in this regard 🙂, plus I do love the movement and all the greats seemed to swear by it.. success leaves clues as they say. Also, I would add NEVER start by crouching to pick the weight off the floor, ALWAYS with soft knees hinge down to the bar with tension on the glutes and hamstrings with tummy literally resting on the upper thighs. If not, you will end up doing a mischief to your lower back!
i mostly agree , but the case u made about (trying to do Chest supported row and u gonna find out u'r not rowing as much) .. for me is really weird for u to make ! .. it's like saying trying to OHP but seated on a bench with your feet floating .. yes ofc u'r not gonna OHP the same weight ! .. that's why (Seals row , chest supported row , etc) is lighter variations .. like (Floor press) u'r removing your legs from the left so u lift light weight .. but using Leg drive on the bench isn't cheating or meaning u'r not working your chest . but i agree with most people either doing rows wrong or program it weirdly . for me i do rows with bench .. as an antagonist giantset / day in general !
as a kinda old guy, 37, and a novice, after two sessions of barbell row I almost messed up my lower back, pain in back and sciatic pain around hip. immediately switched to a safer exercise. I will try barbell rows (with some chest support) after I finish my first year lifting.
Also Jordan Feigenbaum and Freakied0550 have gone on record to say that either barbell rows are overrated for transfer to deadlift, or cost too much to be worth it. I agree with the first point for sure.
@@OMAR-vk9pi He is flippant for sure. He has said on Q&A livechats on YT that he doesn't think there is any difference between a strict and cheat row between transference but also that he wouldn't consider rows a good candidate for improving deadlift outcomes anyway.
@@ProphetFear it’s probably context specific cause he does heavy ass cheat style pendlay rows can’t quote them easily cause they’re advice and opinions are very context based
@@OMAR-vk9pi IIRC Jordan said he likes to do them with more english as they carry over more for him, but he's also said he likes to program them in "developmental blocks." He also has rows on Day 2 in the free version of the Bridge. I think he is a bit more on the "pro row" side. I believe Freakied0550 commented on an Alec Enkiri video from way back that rows are like that middle child that could probably avoided.
I personally never suffered from lower back over-training despite having used barbell rows several times a week in conjunction with deadlifts for many years. I am aware of how taxing they are, but I’ve just never had an issue in terms of fatigue resulting from any type of barbell rows.
I'm a late novice and barbell row was the only exercise which improved my rowing strength (and back size) as opposed to machines. I agree though that some novices will have trouble learning it
which variation did you do? pendlay off the floor? Israetel very bent over and very strict? Yates slightly more upright only hanging down to the knee or so?
@@patrickjulius7352 pretty much a standard barbell row. Now I changed the technique to make it harder (slower negative, stretch, bar to chest to hit more rhomboids)
@29:15 just watched a man have an epileptic seizure on camera and then calmly explain to me the superiority of dumbbell rows over the barbell variation
100% may be do yates rows at most regular rows for people don’t know how to hip hinge and haven’t developed their lower body enough is just not a recipe for longevity. Great vid
BB Rows are the goat for traps and rhomboids. Once I learned how to pull with my back, it blew up my mid/lower traps like no other exercise. Also, I never found BB Rows/Pendlays to interfere with deadlifts. If you split the work where you BB row on Monday and Deadlift on Friday, it works really well. Especially since with strict-ish form, I’m rowing for reps 55% of my 3rm deadlift. I’m not sure if this will become an issue once I get deeper into the 400’s for deadlifts. But for now, while repping in the low 400’s, this combo is going strong.
yeah since i started doing BB rows with straps and focusing on strictly pulling with my back i can feel the contraction and get a really good upper back pump and my rhomboids look insane now they just stick out like crazy. strict barbell rows with straps might be the best upper back movement in my opinion
Love me some barbell rows, especially snatch grip. However im not doing them right now in favor of landmine tbar rows. I also do tons of other upper back work, shrugs, and lots of band pull aparts. Also love unateral pin loaded hip hinged rows, where you can get an excellent pulling angel targeting traps and rhomboids. My upper back is my best body part by far, and I regularly mog everyone waiting in line behind me at the coffee shop. #teamnopullups
At 9:20 rn and I don’t do BB Rows currently, but when I did program them I actually opened with them on my second pull day alternating with the deadlift I open my other pull day with. Currently I’ve found I don’t need the BB row between my bodyweight rows, pullups, and deadlifts so they aren’t in my current split. Ok got to the end of the video and it’s funny as hell to me you talked about doing nearly the exact same thing for bb rows rotated with deadlifts.
So inverted rows your only horizontal pull? Trying to figure out if I can just stick with that. I find many chest supported variations hurt my chest and bb rows the lower back. Inverted and maybe one arm rows are seeming like the only options
@@patrickjulius7352 1 year later I switched inverted rows out for cable at the moment. My back is my strongest muscle group though and I’ve always prioritized vertical pulls to horizontal. Scapular shrugs though have been a recent addition that has been blowing up the upper/mid back thickness.
I've been following Alex's advice. He said your romanian should be 200lb heavier than you working weight of the barbell row. So currently building up Romanian. At about 235lb and climbing. I do a higher row variant, kind of like yates but not underhand, to still build towards the movement. I do agree though, you need to have a very strong upper and lower back to allow you to operate in the proper position.
Man I'm glad I wasn't exposed to content like this when I was getting started lifting, barbell rows were a godsend to me and made my deadlift skyrocket. This critique is completely nonsensical as well, he lists the beneficial qualities of the barbell row (that it's a hip hinge that taxes your low back and posterior chain quite a bit) and frames it as a criticism and an example of bad programming as if the people who program barbell rows into their programs aren't deliberately choosing BB rows specifically because of how much they tax the posterior chain and how well they carryover to the deadlift. He's right that doing sets of 5 is stupid, it's a hypertrophy movement, should be trained in a higher rep range, if you wanna do explosive pulls for low reps do cleans and snatches. Barbell bent rows are an excellent exercise and novices should absolutely do them, they should just make sure that their load selection is appropriate and their form is good, otherwise the SFR of the exercise as well as its carryover to the deadlift can be compromised.
Hmm usual if i row from the floor its because i already did deadlift last workout. Yes i feel every muscle that are in deadlift but with row i can sit back so good that its fine. Most of the time just chect supported rows with high rep but somethimes its nice to use some heavy rows. 10x100kg will give some "movement" around last 3 rep.
Before I watch this. My guess is that novices like me don't activate the muscles we are working on when it comes to some exercises, but I will watch the whole thing.
I experienced some of what you explain here first hand and stuck to doing a dumbbell version. Was much less taxing and comfortable, honestly to do this day I rather do a dumbbell pendlay row. Haven’t gotten into inverted rows yet
usually, if i program for a friend beginning or myself, i use the big 6 as a base, but put in isolations for calves, neck, forearms. And sometimes curls n extensions for triceps. i find that it builds a good base of structural integrity, as the joints learn to work properly. now, the rows i program can be any row, cable, dumbbell as long as trained intensely and it fits and i/my friend likes it, same goes for which ohp (kettlebell, dumbbell, barbell), bench can be replaced with dips and push ups, back squats with goblet squats or a machine (but i think that you need to train the stability in the beginning), for pull ups, pulldowns are good, but i think pull ups are just king, hip hinge can be deadlift, but also kettlebell swings are good for learning body mechanics, but not really for hypertrophy alone. IMO edit: oh, and with different rep ranges, for squats, pull ups/downs, push ups are amrap etc. so you learn that too
Always preferred the seated chest supported isolateral row (thinks it's called hammer strength row) . You know if one side is getting stronger , and you can't really get injured.
The only time I ever barbell row is every third week in place of deadlifts. I "pendlay" row for moderate reps (I'm talking 6-8 reps) in an explosive fashion if my lower back isn't feeling particularly taxed. If my lower back is exhausted from prior work in the week I drop the weight, stick a belt on and go for slightly higher reps. I see it is a hip hinge with heavy emphasis on upper back recruitment so I only ever use it as a deadlift accessory/variation. All other horizontal row work comes from dumbbells. (I say "pendlay" because they're not technically pendlay rows as I use some leg drive, but they do begin from a dead stop in pendlay fashion. But then, I appreciate that I'm nullifying the true intention of a row by doing them in that fashion even though that isn't my specific goal with them. I use them purely as a deadlift variation, not for direct targeted upper back hypertrophy). I feel like this is the only way to reasonably program barbell rows in a program that already utilises deadlifts. I prefer vertical pulls for the vast majority of my upper back volume anyway.
Idk, I disagree about rows being inferior - if you are a skinny novice like many novices are, pull-ups are too easy especially without access to a belt to add some plates. Barbell rows pendlay rows and dumbbell rows added a lot of thickness on my back
After 8 weeks of adding weight on novice 5x5 program (ketogains) is when my lower back hit its limit from doing barbell rows. I have cut them out of my program
Its like doing pullups without a good grip strength. If your lower back is weak and your balance is shit, then your barbell row form is even worse, period.
As a powerlifter should I stop doing normal rows and maybe try chest supported rows (More back isolation). I don't want the barbell row to screw my recovery for the deadlift. Already do pull ups. Great video btw
What if the intention is to use the barbell row as a leg exercise? Weighted pull-ups and ring rows will be used as the back builders, while BB rows and Goodmornings will be used as hip hinges. And in this case, wouldn't it make sense to put rows later in the day after prefatiguing the back?
i tried barbell rows, and my lower back was killing me for a good week, im only 20. Yes my form was trash, yes im a noob at lifting. Yes i wont be trying barbell rows in the near future.
Deadlifts and pull ups both assisted and weighted are all what novices require for forging good back development. Once the body is capable and athletic, rows can become a game changer. Otherwise it’s best to stay away.
Timestamps:
0:00-1:24 Enter, The Virgin Barbell Row
1:24-2:40 The Big 5 alone will kill your bodybuilding potential
4:40-5:45 Rows are for hoes, but not big biceps
5:45-7:03 Rows for low reps are foolish.
7:03-8:00 Oonga bunga aLl CoMpOuNdS aRe ThE mAsTeR RaCe
8:00-10:00 Barbell Rows Overlap with Hip hinges because they ARE a hip hinge
10:00-10:45 Novices barely know how to deadlift, what makes you think they can row?
10:50-11:20 The Row is technical, so just deadlift
12:00-13:00 String Cheese Hamstrings and Paper Thin Spinal Erectors
15:00-18:30 People progress on Rows but they never use their back
18:30-21:00 Muh Deadlift Carryover
21:00-23:30 Pull Ups Mog Barbell Rows for Back Hypertrophy
23:30-28:00 How to properly do rows for hypertrophy
28:00-30:30 The Chad Dumbbell Row
KING
bald based man
So based lmfao
Thought you were an advocate for the row Omni
@@DYELGAINZ Well, when it comes to Pendlay Row at least, NH himself makes novices do it too (not for the laterals though, in fact it's a shame if one can't do pull ups yet because he would be set for anything lats and upper back related).
A clarification on the amount of leg involvement in bb rows as I'm afraid I wasn't clear: The issue isn't that you're involving the full body to complete the lift, the problem is that you're turning something that was scheduled as an upper back movement into a hip hinge. Typically, this happens slowly: you start doing your 5x5 on rows, and realize that there is absolutely no way for you to keep progressing at the rate the program tells you to if you keep it strict, so you start to cheat a bit. Weeks go by, and before you know it you're doing full on Rubbish rows while still telling yourself that you're training your upper back, which is not true. This is what happened to me on Coan rows: my focus on strength progression ended up nullifying the very reason for their existence in the program. Don't make that mistake.
Do you even lift anymore? That shirt used to be skin tight on you
@@WillT-mo5bl hes off the sauce
But wouldn't that make the program bad? I mean you should take your time before progressing
How about T-Bar rows after deadlifts?
@Hephaestus Thanks.What row variations do you recommend after deadlifts ?
I like bodyweight rows for novices. There are tons of ways to make the movement harder and if you're a novice you can probably still make gains off of it.
Ahh yes, and once bw rows start feeling too easy you can throw in the towel in there too
Problem with them is that even slight leg placement deviation will fuck progression hard and you can't just chalk the ground if you do em at the gym. One arm pulldowns and mitch rows or lat pull ins are the best and easist exercise anyway so might as well do only them and maybe like woolam rows and or deadlifts if even
@M B My comment was an attempt at humor by referencing Mike Chang's towel rows. Clearly didn't land
@@krishnagodale3200 😂😂😂
@@krishnagodale3200 I was kinda confused because I thought of unilateral rows with a towel, so to make it biased towards one side (idk if that's a thing for rows, but it is for pullups)
NH's shirt tightness is all over the place right now.
i've done barbell rows from the beginning and the first signs of muscle mass i got was my upper back and rear delts and it was all barbell rows, because that was the only upper back movement i did, so of course i have attached to them, why not if they gave me good fucking results right of the bat and continued to give me results. Barbell rows has given me so much muscle mass that i will never stop doing them
Exactly the same dude
That worked on my back too
notice how he said "there's no such thing as a bad lift"... I do barbell rows as well, and really enjoy them, but the argument here is they require programming and technical skills a novice usually doesn't have
@@showmaesas squats and bench requires way more technical skill than bb rows. And yes you need to program them properly, but then again novices usually don't know how to program any lift, so there goes that argument as well
@@ollvi probably squats, yes but there are certain details on the barbell rows that make them quite hard, that shit just damaged my lowerback and I didnt feel something on the back, Pull ups, have been superior for my back development and are more funny
hi Croissant man, just apply this `mindset` into my back training exercise and my lats havent felt this good in awhile, this video is an absolute reality check for me, thank you
That’s why I love seal rows so lucky that my gym I go to has one
Jason Blaha know about seal rows.
All you need is a power rack and a utility seat TBH, add in a cambered football bar and you got yourself perfect seal rows
I always found it funny how it's programmed as a base level movement when it's actually incredibly difficult to do a legit bent over row with good form. I've been doing them like Woolam for a while and my form still sucks.
"Incredibly difficult" btw. Brother you better off playing checkers living in your protective bubble
@@WillT-mo5bl With perfect form, it's pretty tough. But I'm sure you rip 4 plates for reps with no issues, just like everyone else on social media.
@@Wayf4rer You're making it seem like rocket science for no reason. It's NOT hard to get the form down correctly. It requires mobility in the hamstrings to establish a pretty horizontal hinged position, and it requires good knowledge on how to breathe & brace (preferably for the whole set).
@@WillT-mo5bl Will why are you always acting contrarian and annoying on this channel? Forget it, just keep your epic trollage or whatever.
@@tiagofranco6029 I defer to him, he rows 4 plates with perfect form too, as demonstrated by his advanced knowledge of breathing and bracing.
I truly believe there is both a timeline and a checklist for exercises to be used properly in a program for each person.
that is accessible online for everyone ?
@freddykisback123 yes. Renaissance periodization, jeff nipples/ nipplehard/ nips/ nippard, geoffrey verity schofield and NH himself all repeat a similar style of finding movements that work for you, and list the most commonly effective methods of programming for progress. It's a trial and error thing as it's highly individual and changes as you progress but there are accepted fundamentals to consider that could keep you from spinning your wheels for too long
Have to agree, when I did bent over/barbell rows, my legs and lower back were the most affected area and were the limiting factor rather than my upper back and arms. Switched over to bodyweight rows and feeling the tension in the appropriate areas.
This video should be WEAPONIZED against novice programs. Literally golden tidbits. I wanted to add my personal experience but this video literally covers everything
My back gained the most mass from bent over barbell rows. It was noticeable. Workout out for about a year and saw minimal mass gains in my back. Started rowing and within 3 months I was a different person, people literally thought I started doing steroids. But no. I started doing rows.
what variation? Yates? pendlay? Israetel very bent and very strict/light?
Edit: OK, I managed to watch it all. You already said what I said, so yeah. I actually agree with you. In spite of the huge progress I made on rows as a beginner and intermediate, they are extremely taxing, are prone to injuries, and are difficult to perform accurately. For novices, I think you're absolutely right. I didn't always row right. The reality was though, I built my upper back mainly doing rows. I didn't do DB rows, Seal rows, Helms row, Meadows row, I did Barbell rows. I added DB rows and seated cable rows in at various points, and Chest-supported rows became quite common in my programs. But I'm still convinced that I built my upper back with Barbell rows.
Pull-ups are 100% better than BB rows. Totally agree.
Love the idea of using rows as a back-off set after a heavy deadlift. I learned about Deadlift Rows from Cailer Woolam three years ago, who said that his favourite deadlift accessory was the Deadlift Row, which is essentially a pull from the floor and then a Yates Row at the top. He says its primary goal is to use the hamstrings and glutes to control the weight. So you're absolutely right.
I'm gonna try and watch all of this, but I don't know if I have time. For now I just wanna say, I started rowing when I began lifting and became quite good at it. I reached the stage where I was able to row as much as I could bench, which very few others in my gym could do. It helped a lot with my upper back development. That is now the most muscular part of my body. But it is an incredibly taxing exercise, and I screwed up on a couple of occasions that resulted in minor injuries. It's basically one of the main compound lifts. Deadlifts, Squats, Bench Press, OHP, Barbell Row, and maybe I'd put Pull-ups in there as well. It's one of the fundamentals. But yeah, if you do them, you have to treat them like a heavy compound lift-with respect.
I went to snap city doing barbell rows, changed my life forever
I have a feeling you were born & raised in snap city 🏙️ no chance of escaping
Same, my quality of life has been permanently reduced
@@10ahm01 same here. Do you still lift?
How? What the hell did you do. Did it permanently impact you that much?
What happened?
Chest supported rows and helms rows are all you need.
I used to do pendlay rows but I could only do 5-6 reps (because there are only hexa plates in my gym and 2 rounded plates 55 lbs each , it sucks) ,so I decided to get a stronger back and then I will do pendlay rows again.
Putting in the work! Keep it up :)
i prefer rows with back below parallel, u need to stand on a step or something but takes the stress off the low back
Use 25s and also round the upper back - same result
The machine row might be the most underrated work out from my experience.
People say machines are bad but i disagree for rows
@@mitchelllukovsky6197 Why though
@@AVB15 You get to work your upper back without putting a lot of stress on the lower back. Also, with machines grip won't be as much of an issue as with barbells.
@@mitchelllukovsky6197 Yeah but wouldn’t barbell rows have more carry over to deadlifts? Also I personally treat rows as serious as any other compound lift for me the extra stress is worth it.
@@AVB15
>wouldn't barbell rows be better because they have more carryover to deadlifts
You know what has more carryover to deadlifts than rows? Deadlifts.
The point of rowing is to stimulate the middle back. With machine rows, you can stimulate the target muscles (the middle back) without taxing the lower back and posterior chain like barbell rows do. Since you now have less stress on the lower back and posterior chain, you can program in more deadlifts.
Great content as always, I programmed my pendlay rows like deadlift which definitely limited the rest of my programming… doing DB rows now instead.
Took me a long time to get BB rows right. Brian Ashurls video really helped.
I switched from barbell rows to meadows rows a couple of months back because I just thought they were better. with meadows rows I can actually feel my back when rowing and it's nuts. 10/10 won't do bb rows for a long time
I'd like to say both my floating and pendlay style barbell rows are immaculate for their intended purpose, I did them from the very start. Explosive concentric and controlled eccentric. I can feel a brutal stretch in the rhomboids. They've build my upper body power generation like nothing else. I favour vertical pulls nowadays but I always hit my barbell rows and prefer them over all other variations.
What is the floating style one?
@@RPEpsilon-lc4vm I think he means when you don't put the barbell down between reps like in Pendlay rows
Yup, "All compounds = good" to most people. I feel pullups and chins are more important in compound heavy programs cause they give the back a chance to decompress. Rows are just redundant, I used to do em all the time, now I switch them with pull ups and machines variants when my low back needs a break or keep them light and pump up the upper back before doing my presses
Great video. I personally have already experienced for myself how BB rows can be difficult to program, because I deadlift and squat twice a week and my posterior chain needs ample time to recover. Currently experimenting with working them into my program though and will be attentive to how my body responds.
Try going lighter and control it more
The original Starting Strength and Stronglifts seem to emphasize rows as a deadlift variation, alternating the two between training days. The problem is that because DLs are equated with rows and not squats, they are seen as an upper _and_ lower back exercise and not one for the posterior leg muscles, and people then go on to neglect any actual hamstring or hinge work when switching to a different upper back exercise. Then the Reddit variation of GreySkull LP came along at some point establishing barbell rows as a separate movement to DLs (as part of the "Big 6"), but this results in the loading and fatigue problems you mentioned.
Out of all of the exercise selection/minimalism dogmas this is one I was fortunate to not have fallen into. I discovered an article about inverted rows and did that first, then moved to cable rows and later DB rows as my staple, so when I came across the posts recommending BB rows I just stuck with the row variation I was already doing.
Day 12 of asking NH to make a video on how to get a gf.
#releasethefrenchgame
No hope pal, I/m on day 999
just add more plates
Only Blaha can answer that question.
I'd recommend avoiding dating apps. It's a good way to get your self esteem crushed lol
@Little Big Man Barf Bologna I have had 5 gf.I don't actually need an advice on how to get one.I am doing it for shits and giggles.
Amazing insight. Wish I had this video as a novice I would have saved myself from a lot of shit form rows in the first years
Since I'm an exceptional novice who rows with proper form and weight (and doesn't deadlift or squat on the same day) I feel my upper back work properly on barbell rows. Lower back is used only for stability but it has never felt like the limiting factor.
I remember when I used to listen to alpha destiny and he almost deluded me into thinking that strict form rows were useless and I should just go as heavy as I could because of the stretch
That fool said that strict rows have a higher injury risk than cheat rows. Amazes me how everyone just forgot how trash his advice used to be. I saw so many comments mentioning that they hurt their back, neck, etc, listening to him.
He did say some stupid and pretty cringe things back in the day but as of today he is one of the better fitness channels on this platform.
@@ProphetFear You can do strict rows in a way that puts lots of pressure on your lower back so I wouldn't say he's entirely wrong.
@@joshmoronstein That's a strawman. Doing a glorified deadlift or RDL can put LOTS of pressure on your back too. They're also a ballistic exercise using supramaximal loads - bad combination.
@@ProphetFear I know, I'm just saying some people think strict = safe, which is not true.
Weighted ring rows 💪
Barbell rows have been one of my main back movements for years now and I always have some variation of it in my routine but I get where you're coming from. It's not really a good idea to program them in conjunction with other really core demanding exercises for people who aren't used to high volume lower back work. I attribute a lot of my lower back resilience to barbell rows.
Just gotta point out that in Starting Strength we don't include rows in the novice program, and I have to remind everyone that it's not a physique/hypertrophy program. Intermediate and advanced mf's only. At that point it's either pendlay (basically cheat rows) as a lighter variation for the deadlift or a more strict row if the client has specific physique goals.
But yeah, the row is not going to progress well if you try to do 3x5 and add 5lbs each session. Gotta get creative and program it more like a typical assistance movement. Check out Andy Baker's (Starting Strength Coach) videos on rows if you're curious. That's basically the style that you're promoting, and that's the one I prefer to use to build up the back.
I recently have implemented them in my program and man i never felt my lower and mid traps like that before. Still sore after 3 days
Absolutely love barbell rows and I definitely got a lot of back development from them in my first few years of lifting, but as I get more and more advanced I find that at the end of a training cycle the tax on my lower back gets wayy too intense and it definitely takes away from my deadlifts especially. So I prefer doing chest supported rows for my horizontal pull nowadays. But I will occasionally have training blocks with some form of barbell rows, there are few exercises that you can overload the back like you can with bb rows. Pretty much the king of back exercises along with weighed pull ups and chin ups for me. It's just the damn lower back that has to ruin everything
what variation of bb rows do you do? pendlay or a bit more upright like Yates? or strict like dr. mike?
Blahblahbleena just made a recent video in response to you saying rows are superior to pull ups. You really got to him this time hes just triggered cos he cant even do a pull up.
I actually program pendlay rows two days a week. A lighter hypertrophy day and a heavier "explosive" day. On light day I focus on strict form, only using my arms and back. On heavy day, I treat it as more of a deadlift assistance exercise. I use my legs and lower back to accelerate the bar and finish it with my arms and back.
I don't use pendlay rows as a "strength" exercise as in like squats and deadlifts. I know that novice programs like them because of the simplicity, since most novices can't do pull ups.
I use pendlays after the big lifts and do them with lower weights completely parallel with the floor for strict 10-12 reps. I find 99% of novices do not know how to get into position for a proper pendlay and it's really hard to correct it without being there in person. A seated good morning is the best way for people to understand the mechanics of how to get into a proper pendlay row lumbar position. But an inverse row can be substituted if you don't have lower body recovery leftover. I don't feel a proper pendlay is that taxing on the lower body once you get accustomed to it, it requires a lot of isometric contraction at a stretched state which can get your hamstrings really sore at first, but not much concentric if done properly. The only argument against the pendlay row as an exercise is for someone who does a lot of running/sprinting
For novices without a person to watch them, inverse rows and band assisted chin ups are king imo. And empty bar good mornings are good for gaining mobility to eventually get into proper pendlay position
I do my dumbbell row just like you do in your tutorial. It's my favorite variation.
Most of your points are correct but I still think they're a great back/posterior chain builder. It's the only row you can lift heavy weight with.
Even if it's not targeted and it's messy, it's still heavy weight and will give you great gains. I guess you do plateau a bit when your lower back becomes the limiting factor but you can progress around it
Very helpful video for us novices. Thanks a ton!
Agree and I’ll add; novices shouldn’t back squat (they’ll turn it into a good morning), conventional deadlift (rdl’s only for 6-8 months) or bench press (use some kind of machine instead).
Bb rows can be programmed once a trainee is strong in the rdl (how strong idk) but for beginners some kind of chest support is best.
Inverted weighted ring rows are BEST! Especially when you start from a full retraction (force yourself) and end there
I understand the chance of your seeing this is slim but whatever:
has your philosophy regarding bb rows changed?
you have bb rows on the Friday workout of your new novice program released today 15.06.2023
with all due respect sometimes videos like this are done only for clicks, so now row is bad, don't do it etc just for shocking people, rows and barbell row are great for back, and novice needs them even more. why change it when it works so well!!?
Personally as a novice I do them pendlay row style though I actually try to control the eccentric for high reps typically (10-15 ). I quickly realized 3x5 on rows is just dumb and it makes more sense not to care about the weight on the bar. I focus more on chinups/ pullups and see rows as an accessory.
yass!!! this is EXACTLY true... I was rowing with dumbbells... later I went upstairs and I felt like I was flying up the stairs... I told my partner that this I isometric deadlift
I think the big mistakes in the way most novices do rows are that they are doing them in the wrong rep ranges (too low) and don't know how to deadlift properly by pulling the slack out of the bar while maintaining mid-foot balance and not letting the hips shoot up. With more efficient pulls off the floor I think people would be less likely to be very fatigued from rows (off the floor to be specific). And if they are programmed for 6-12 reps as they should, I think the fatigue cost would be reduced even more, and people with efficient deadlift setups would be able to hold that position a lot easier since the load is quite submaximal at this point. An "intermediate" lifter who can deadlift 400+ lbs for reps doing 225 with a small or moderate amount of body english would probably not be fazed much with a nice setup
But in the end, I think this is a personal preference and individual response thing. Some people love barbell rows and progress fine on their other pulling/back variations just fine, and leverages may have something to do with it. But I think novices who don't know how to deadlift efficiently would be best served to learn the movement after they learn to deadlift.
Always been a fan of 1 arm DB rows instead of barbell rows. Better stability and better range of motion IMO
For me db rows requires more core stability since the weight is only on one side of your body, once you go heavy on those you do need a lot of core stability
I love barbell rows a lot, but not for novices. My goal is to do 4 sets of 20 reps with 3 plates @85kg bodyweight (maybe 90)!
Keep the core solid and fix it, torso between 90° and 60° inclination, hamstrings activated, bring the elbow to the hips without squeezing the hands too much, release the tension and go back to starting point. That's one rep for lats.
If you bring the barbell to the heart level, that's one rep for upper back, rear delts and more biceps than the first type of execution.
I train barbell rows with almost perfect form with 2 plates in the progression scheme of 8x8 -> 6x12 -> 5x15 -> 4x20 with 2' rest between sets.
Great pump in the lats, small fatigue on hamstrings and zzeeeeeero lower back pain
If you bring your hips back enough, bend the knees and choose the right inclination of the torso, then the line of gravity goes to the foot which means that if you push your heel to the ground, the force will be applied by the glutes and hamstrings to stabilize the whole body and allow for a safe movement. It takes time, but not more than it would take to learn a proper deadlift (which I personally could never learn)
The key with bent over rows is not to go too heavy. If you go too heavy, all the pressure goes to your lower back and when I use a lighter weight I can really control the squeeze at the top which is harder when going heavier. However, when I go heavier I feel like my whole body has been worked, so i usually do one heavy set and then go a bit lighter but with more control.
I'm unfortunate/fortunate in that I have a chronic back injury hence have not squatted, deadlifted or performed rdls in years. Only other hip hinge I include are hypers and nordic curls, plus I strengthen the erectors separately with torso extensions with a light dumbbell. Hence there is plenty of "money in the bank" for my erectors to tolerate bb rows in a deficit style and not suffer unduly. A current rehab programme to improve lumbar and hip mobility has also helped me greatly in this regard 🙂, plus I do love the movement and all the greats seemed to swear by it.. success leaves clues as they say. Also, I would add NEVER start by crouching to pick the weight off the floor, ALWAYS with soft knees hinge down to the bar with tension on the glutes and hamstrings with tummy literally resting on the upper thighs. If not, you will end up doing a mischief to your lower back!
Barbell rows are great for getting acid reflux
i mostly agree , but the case u made about (trying to do Chest supported row and u gonna find out u'r not rowing as much) .. for me is really weird for u to make ! ..
it's like saying trying to OHP but seated on a bench with your feet floating .. yes ofc u'r not gonna OHP the same weight ! ..
that's why (Seals row , chest supported row , etc) is lighter variations ..
like (Floor press) u'r removing your legs from the left so u lift light weight .. but using Leg drive on the bench isn't cheating or meaning u'r not working your chest .
but i agree with most people either doing rows wrong or program it weirdly .
for me i do rows with bench .. as an antagonist giantset / day in general !
This hurts, it’s gotta be one of my favourite exercises at the gym 😕
So do them
dude, like israetel says, if it's a good stimulus fatigue ratio for u then u do it, we all unique physiology
@@OMAR-vk9pi I’m off to the gym soon so I will but the only reason it’s hurts is that I was unaware of theirs drawbacks before now
@@imaresurcher yeah everyone is different, haven’t experienced problems with them so far and they yield great results for me
I'll make them better: use smaller plates like 25s, 35s.
as a kinda old guy, 37, and a novice, after two sessions of barbell row I almost messed up my lower back, pain in back and sciatic pain around hip. immediately switched to a safer exercise. I will try barbell rows (with some chest support) after I finish my first year lifting.
20:28 yes, please do! People really need to hear this.
Also Jordan Feigenbaum and Freakied0550 have gone on record to say that either barbell rows are overrated for transfer to deadlift, or cost too much to be worth it.
I agree with the first point for sure.
Jordan does heavy ass pendlay style rows and said they have pretty good carry over to deadlift though
@@OMAR-vk9pi He is flippant for sure. He has said on Q&A livechats on YT that he doesn't think there is any difference between a strict and cheat row between transference but also that he wouldn't consider rows a good candidate for improving deadlift outcomes anyway.
@@ProphetFear it’s probably context specific cause he does heavy ass cheat style pendlay rows can’t quote them easily cause they’re advice and opinions are very context based
@@OMAR-vk9pi IIRC Jordan said he likes to do them with more english as they carry over more for him, but he's also said he likes to program them in "developmental blocks." He also has rows on Day 2 in the free version of the Bridge. I think he is a bit more on the "pro row" side.
I believe Freakied0550 commented on an Alec Enkiri video from way back that rows are like that middle child that could probably avoided.
I personally never suffered from lower back over-training despite having used barbell rows several times a week in conjunction with deadlifts for many years. I am aware of how taxing they are, but I’ve just never had an issue in terms of fatigue resulting from any type of barbell rows.
what variation of bb rows do you do? pendlay or a bit more upright like Yates? or strict like dr. mike?
I'm a late novice and barbell row was the only exercise which improved my rowing strength (and back size) as opposed to machines. I agree though that some novices will have trouble learning it
which variation did you do? pendlay off the floor? Israetel very bent over and very strict? Yates slightly more upright only hanging down to the knee or so?
@@patrickjulius7352 pretty much a standard barbell row. Now I changed the technique to make it harder (slower negative, stretch, bar to chest to hit more rhomboids)
@29:15 just watched a man have an epileptic seizure on camera and then calmly explain to me the superiority of dumbbell rows over the barbell variation
100% may be do yates rows at most regular rows for people don’t know how to hip hinge and haven’t developed their lower body enough is just not a recipe for longevity. Great vid
BB Rows are the goat for traps and rhomboids. Once I learned how to pull with my back, it blew up my mid/lower traps like no other exercise.
Also, I never found BB Rows/Pendlays to interfere with deadlifts. If you split the work where you BB row on Monday and Deadlift on Friday, it works really well. Especially since with strict-ish form, I’m rowing for reps 55% of my 3rm deadlift.
I’m not sure if this will become an issue once I get deeper into the 400’s for deadlifts. But for now, while repping in the low 400’s, this combo is going strong.
yeah since i started doing BB rows with straps and focusing on strictly pulling with my back i can feel the contraction and get a really good upper back pump and my rhomboids look insane now they just stick out like crazy. strict barbell rows with straps might be the best upper back movement in my opinion
You have a good vocabulary sir
I agree pull ups are where its at. most of the gains on my upper body and back especially came from that.
Love me some barbell rows, especially snatch grip. However im not doing them right now in favor of landmine tbar rows. I also do tons of other upper back work, shrugs, and lots of band pull aparts. Also love unateral pin loaded hip hinged rows, where you can get an excellent pulling angel targeting traps and rhomboids. My upper back is my best body part by far, and I regularly mog everyone waiting in line behind me at the coffee shop. #teamnopullups
I'm a novice and I swear I've overheard other people say I look as if I had Parkinson's disease when doing barbell rows.
Respect the lift then bro
At 9:20 rn and I don’t do BB Rows currently, but when I did program them I actually opened with them on my second pull day alternating with the deadlift I open my other pull day with.
Currently I’ve found I don’t need the BB row between my bodyweight rows, pullups, and deadlifts so they aren’t in my current split.
Ok got to the end of the video and it’s funny as hell to me you talked about doing nearly the exact same thing for bb rows rotated with deadlifts.
So inverted rows your only horizontal pull? Trying to figure out if I can just stick with that. I find many chest supported variations hurt my chest and bb rows the lower back. Inverted and maybe one arm rows are seeming like the only options
@@patrickjulius7352 1 year later I switched inverted rows out for cable at the moment. My back is my strongest muscle group though and I’ve always prioritized vertical pulls to horizontal. Scapular shrugs though have been a recent addition that has been blowing up the upper/mid back thickness.
@@patrickjulius7352 you can definitely get amazing growth with vert pulls and 1 arm or inverted though
I've been following Alex's advice. He said your romanian should be 200lb heavier than you working weight of the barbell row. So currently building up Romanian. At about 235lb and climbing. I do a higher row variant, kind of like yates but not underhand, to still build towards the movement. I do agree though, you need to have a very strong upper and lower back to allow you to operate in the proper position.
often when people say they are doing pendley, they are doing rubish rows.
Man I'm glad I wasn't exposed to content like this when I was getting started lifting, barbell rows were a godsend to me and made my deadlift skyrocket. This critique is completely nonsensical as well, he lists the beneficial qualities of the barbell row (that it's a hip hinge that taxes your low back and posterior chain quite a bit) and frames it as a criticism and an example of bad programming as if the people who program barbell rows into their programs aren't deliberately choosing BB rows specifically because of how much they tax the posterior chain and how well they carryover to the deadlift. He's right that doing sets of 5 is stupid, it's a hypertrophy movement, should be trained in a higher rep range, if you wanna do explosive pulls for low reps do cleans and snatches. Barbell bent rows are an excellent exercise and novices should absolutely do them, they should just make sure that their load selection is appropriate and their form is good, otherwise the SFR of the exercise as well as its carryover to the deadlift can be compromised.
Thoughts on switching from bent over barbell row to barbell seal rows?
Hmm usual if i row from the floor its because i already did deadlift last workout. Yes i feel every muscle that are in deadlift but with row i can sit back so good that its fine. Most of the time just chect supported rows with high rep but somethimes its nice to use some heavy rows. 10x100kg will give some "movement" around last 3 rep.
Before I watch this. My guess is that novices like me don't activate the muscles we are working on when it comes to some exercises, but I will watch the whole thing.
I experienced some of what you explain here first hand and stuck to doing a dumbbell version. Was much less taxing and comfortable, honestly to do this day I rather do a dumbbell pendlay row. Haven’t gotten into inverted rows yet
Go down lever rows and Meadows rows using one side of a barbell. Those are actually more practical than db rows to progress with.
Enkiri also talked about this issue. He doesn't do rows because they impede his deadlift progress.
That is why my lower back feels sore
So dumbbell rows than
Or RDL
Now I have finished the video: makes sense, convinced
usually, if i program for a friend beginning or myself, i use the big 6 as a base, but put in isolations for calves, neck, forearms. And sometimes curls n extensions for triceps.
i find that it builds a good base of structural integrity, as the joints learn to work properly.
now, the rows i program can be any row, cable, dumbbell as long as trained intensely and it fits and i/my friend likes it, same goes for which ohp (kettlebell, dumbbell, barbell), bench can be replaced with dips and push ups, back squats with goblet squats or a machine (but i think that you need to train the stability in the beginning), for pull ups, pulldowns are good, but i think pull ups are just king, hip hinge can be deadlift, but also kettlebell swings are good for learning body mechanics, but not really for hypertrophy alone.
IMO
edit: oh, and with different rep ranges, for squats, pull ups/downs, push ups are amrap etc. so you learn that too
Always preferred the seated chest supported isolateral row (thinks it's called hammer strength row) . You know if one side is getting stronger , and you can't really get injured.
I like the landmine for rows i use a special handle for it. Makes them a lot easier.
The only time I ever barbell row is every third week in place of deadlifts. I "pendlay" row for moderate reps (I'm talking 6-8 reps) in an explosive fashion if my lower back isn't feeling particularly taxed. If my lower back is exhausted from prior work in the week I drop the weight, stick a belt on and go for slightly higher reps. I see it is a hip hinge with heavy emphasis on upper back recruitment so I only ever use it as a deadlift accessory/variation. All other horizontal row work comes from dumbbells. (I say "pendlay" because they're not technically pendlay rows as I use some leg drive, but they do begin from a dead stop in pendlay fashion. But then, I appreciate that I'm nullifying the true intention of a row by doing them in that fashion even though that isn't my specific goal with them. I use them purely as a deadlift variation, not for direct targeted upper back hypertrophy).
I feel like this is the only way to reasonably program barbell rows in a program that already utilises deadlifts. I prefer vertical pulls for the vast majority of my upper back volume anyway.
Idk, I disagree about rows being inferior - if you are a skinny novice like many novices are, pull-ups are too easy especially without access to a belt to add some plates. Barbell rows pendlay rows and dumbbell rows added a lot of thickness on my back
After 8 weeks of adding weight on novice 5x5 program (ketogains) is when my lower back hit its limit from doing barbell rows. I have cut them out of my program
How about Barbell Chest Supported Row or Seal Rows?
Both gold
If you are trying to build up your lower back and deadlift do explosive cheat pendlays. It's a great exercise just for a different application.
Supinated BB rows make you huge wym
Blaha made a response video
Its like doing pullups without a good grip strength. If your lower back is weak and your balance is shit, then your barbell row form is even worse, period.
As a powerlifter should I stop doing normal rows and maybe try chest supported rows (More back isolation). I don't want the barbell row to screw my recovery for the deadlift. Already do pull ups. Great video btw
Nvm watched the video to the end, you answered my question
if size was = strength, then rubish rows would be the best hypertrophy exercise, as you can move a fuck tonna weight.
Weighted inverted rows with backpack baby!!!
Rows are not included in starting strength
What if the intention is to use the barbell row as a leg exercise? Weighted pull-ups and ring rows will be used as the back builders, while BB rows and Goodmornings will be used as hip hinges.
And in this case, wouldn't it make sense to put rows later in the day after prefatiguing the back?
It makes much more sense in that case, yes
@@NaturalHypertrophy Awesome. Eagerly waiting for the NH posterior chain / hamstrings tier list.
@@goolahz Should be out in April
Great vid…screw rows…they were hurting my lower back…I’m on StrongLifts 5x5 program.
i tried barbell rows, and my lower back was killing me for a good week, im only 20. Yes my form was trash, yes im a noob at lifting. Yes i wont be trying barbell rows in the near future.
Im just here for the Bloho comments
Deadlifts and pull ups both assisted and weighted are all what novices require for forging good back development. Once the body is capable and athletic, rows can become a game changer. Otherwise it’s best to stay away.
Very Well presented 👏
I'm at 12:12 and my favourite part so far is hearing a frenchman say "in lieu"
i’ve always done power cleans over bent over bb rows
This... explain a lot of things lmao. Thanks brother
I did pull ups long before I did rows so I can feel different muscles in my back activating when I do rows