Going back to when the SIP’s were installed didn’t they decide to not use the manufacturers recommended way of foaming between the panels, ie apply a bead of foam immediately before joining the panels? The manufacturer’s way gives a fully airtight seal as you know you’ve put the foam along the whole joint and therefore sealed it. Sadly it looks like a problem of their own making not a fundamental problem of the SIP system?
I feel as though you may have quite successfully put anyone off of ever trying to build a SIPS structure. So much angst, so many words and so much going back over things again!
Lee Silcox not realistic for on the job site, more for a manufactured home, built in a jig. Much better methods with ZIP. And then house wrap then blown insulation. And be less money. They have not even had the nightmares of wiring the upstairs.
Lee Silcox exactly my point not for the first time home builders, nothing wrong with the timber frame but the specs do not have the tolerance for The novice. Not their fault, the fault is in who recommend that system over others that are much simpler and can be just as effective.
this is why you charge more when a homeowner want to help on his own project. its what my crew calls "diminishing returns" he spent more in time, effort and material than he will ever save in efficiency over his lifetime
@Jonny B I know, just referring to that old sign at the auto shop that show 3 labor rates : Normal : Customer wants to help : Tried to fix it themselves already
Not likely, heat rises there for warms and heats the mass the air is working it's way through. The other question is how sensitive is the IR camera to start with? Many of the inexpensive ones do not show very subtle changes in temperature in a small area.
Not at all, we have all been hoodwinked in to watching this build just as they coned the timber frame (we are going to build ) then got other people to do it
From what I have seen on SIPs is that professionals spray the foam just before they put them together and I believe Jess even said that was what he heard but wasn’t sure so they did it this different way leaving them blind when putting in the foam.
Ok let's stop guessing and just finish up electrical so you can do a blower door test and get them leaks fixed with aero barrier I have worked with sips and I also believe sealing them is more important then normal stick framing imo. Look into this product I have and will be doing it on my next house for sure.
Maybe I'm wrong, but have not you got a FLIR for your i-phone? I think, you should go up, with the man basket in the evening or night, when the sun is set, and look at the roof with the FLIR. It will show you the hotspots.
Have you considered using a cheap endoscope camera from eBay ? This would allow you to see the behavior of foam inside the panels and know when enough is enough. I have used them for work inside walls with great success.
Maybe you guys could try an air-sealing solution like Aerobarrier, and if you can afford another project, an ERV from a reputable brand like Zehnder or Blauberg would be a solid investment. When making a house as airtight as yours, quality fresh air ventilation is a must...no pun intended. Don't let these people bother you, own your decisions, and love your life. Rooting for you guys.
Zevnitř se nemusí projevit, protože teplý vzduch nahradí uniklý. Musí hledat zvenčí teplá místa. Na to má přece tu plošinu, co ji dělal měsíc místo domu.
We did a big roof on a very old building here in England so glad we used 100mm batts between rafters them a t&g wood fibre sarking board outside none of these issues
I am sure it is to late now but seems to me one of those cameras for seeing inside walls with the flexible scope and a viewer screen would be perfect for this kind of job. You could see right in the are your trying to work in. I have seen them for sale in Home Depot.
Did you see what they filled under the sofitt the other day and hes worried about the roof🤣🤣🤣😂😂 I love these guys. Happy Turkey day people🙋♂️ and may that building be air tight someday 🤭🤫
I wonder if you tried your infrared thermometer on the inside of your roof after one of the colder nights if it might show the difference in temperature in spots.
It seems like the drywall panels had watermarks where the leaks were identified. Kinda makes sense if condensate would collect there. Maybe that's your x marks the spot, at least from a viewer's perspective.
Those moisture stains will require removing the sheetrock, mud and tape will never attach properly to those stained surfaces. Five years from now the joints will start to sag and separate. I don't really understand why they are there, I did not think they left the roof off that long.
@@knotbumper The drywall was already attached to the roof SIPs when they were installed,and if I recall correctly, it rained before they got all of the SIPs installed.
Two things, One is have you looked at getting a fiber optic inspection scope? Seems like with the SIPS and electrical cold roof gap, might be useful. Number two I could never doo what you do since over the years my fear of heights as grown over the years.
I never understood the use of the low expanding foam. This is exactly what seemed like would happen. The risk of a blowout is way lower than the risk of missing coverage IMO.
jeep6242 mostly low expanding foam is for windows and doors to keep it from causing binding if you get too much foam in. Otherwise you will have problems with both your windows and doors till you remove and fix the problem. I learned that the hard way when I accidentally use the wrong foam.
Happy thanksgiving from the Uk Im sure someone had said it before but you can get borescope’s that go on iPhones could help with this and electrical chases
you should buy a stethscope type device you can attach to you phone to poke into these holes and look around. instead of guessing if its empty or solid.
Check out Building Science Insights : to vent or not to vent @ 29:41. Joe lstiburek . And also you have ice and water shield running top to bottom without venting your sip panel . It appears it's moisture finding its way up and out .
A possible way to help chase down the leak in your sips would be to us a smoke stick near your seems to see where air is moving. You have to pressurize your house.
I'm thinking you guys should invest in a snake cam. Actually quite surprised you haven't... on SIPS those come in handy for everything. Happy Thanksgiving...
If you had to do the roof over, would you recommend another type of insulation or different type system? And thank you for taking the time to share this with us. Happy Thanksgiving!
Jesse, review your videos from when you installed the panels up there...Should give you a better idea (reminder) where the seem is. Then you could measure from the drywall seam.
Were you drilling sheetrock I am a contractor and I haven't seen the sips system. You have me scratching my head about the sheetrock being on the top of the rafters and not on the bottom of the rafters
They added the sheetrock to the sips then set them on the rafters. They want to see the rafters. When I saw them doing that i was thinking they might regret that decision later.
The method they’re using is an old one from long ago known as timber frame structure that they are then putting a very new method onto known as SIPs. The idea is to see the post and beams so then one needs to decide wether to notch the roof beams so the drywall can tuck under or use shims to give you a gap to tuck the drywall in or use some kind of trim after drywalling the celling or the way they did it. Otherwise it would be difficult to have a refined fit and finish. For the side walls they used shims.
My hats off to you guys for persevering. I do not even know what day this is from when you broke ground in building but I have followed you from the days you were living off grid. Would it be possible to annotate somewhere as to what day we are at in building your home?
the foam as it cures will generate some heat and where it looks melted on the roof is exactly where the foam was added so my bet is you hit it perfect and melted the frost with the generated heat not a heat leakage
I would have put the foam in before the next panel goes on. So you put the panel in a bed of foam. I case of doubt, make the panel fit first, lift it a bit, foam the seam and install the panel...
You've probably fixed it by now, but myself I would have mudded (Plastered, as we say in the UK) and tape sealed all the joints between the sheetrock (Plaster board in the UK) to stop the movement of air through the gaps.
When you said how far it was from the window I was surprised because in the video it looked like the end of the hotspot was right in line with the edge of the window.
On the temp display it said 10/02 so early October. The posted videos have been about two months behind 'realtime' since they raised the bents last year.
this is not an uncommon issue with ridged (foam) insulation. The building flexes and ridged insulation separates, just the way life is. That is why I like glass batts, they flex and never loose their value. We have a roof similar with 2x12 rafters and batts. Never have any heat loss through the ceiling. The amont of heat loss you have though is still negligible, annoying perhaps, but not the end of the world. Not having siding on the house is a larger heat loss.
@@duanemiller5606 Ale to je právě známka toho, že panely nebyly k sobě správně slepeny při instalaci. Když tudy tekla voda, tak tudy bude unikat teplý vzduch.
@Duane Miller Rough translation: It is the sign that the panel were not properly "glued" together during the installation. If the water could flow there, so could the warm air.
morbomm thanks for the information. If you could look at all my post you would see that in one or more I mentioned that professionals would put the spray foam in the joint just before they connect the two panels. I also believe Jesse made the comment that was the information he had received but he wasn’t sure so they came up with their own plan to cut the groove and then drill the holes and spray in the foam afterwards. Had they put the foam between the panels as they put them up it would’ve sealed completely and they wouldn’t be chasing leaks of water or air. They also probably would have used less foam.
You made a man-basket, have a telehandler with a significant reach. Why not use that to get up there, then measure where the "hotspot" is more accurately? That way you don't then have to spend forever patching a million little holes in your ceiling before you paint it or whatever you intend to do to it later?. Seems like you've just made more work for yourself when you come to work on the ceilings at a later date, and there is a chance you're not actually filling the space that contributed to the hot spot. A few minutes with a tape measure from the man basket on the telehandler would have made sense to me.
After watching a few of these I have a much greater appreciation for my husband who finishes things he starts in a timely manner.
This had me laughing out loud!
Going back to when the SIP’s were installed didn’t they decide to not use the manufacturers recommended way of foaming between the panels, ie apply a bead of foam immediately before joining the panels? The manufacturer’s way gives a fully airtight seal as you know you’ve put the foam along the whole joint and therefore sealed it. Sadly it looks like a problem of their own making not a fundamental problem of the SIP system?
Mike, That's how I build SIPs, foam as you go.
Yup
@@ModernMountainLiving Or go with a SIP manufacturer that designs the core like a T&G, so insulation is always bridging a join.
@@JohnnyMotel99 My goto is ICS Eco SIPs in Colorado, their cam system utilizes a male to female locking miter, and it corrects plum.
@@ch11ew12y Amen
I feel as though you may have quite successfully put anyone off of ever trying to build a SIPS structure. So much angst, so many words and so much going back over things again!
Sips are not worth all the expense, With all of your effort you could have built regular walls and have been further along. In my opinion.
For sure. They could've ZIP sheathed the outside to get the continuous barrier they were looking for.
If they were installed correctly and to manufacturers specs they wouldn't be having these issues...
Lee Silcox not realistic for on the job site, more for a manufactured home, built in a jig. Much better methods with ZIP. And then house wrap then blown insulation. And be less money. They have not even had the nightmares of wiring the upstairs.
@@ballomni look at anyone else whose done sips and followed the manufacturers instructions. These problems don't arise.
Lee Silcox exactly my point not for the first time home builders, nothing wrong with the timber frame but the specs do not have the tolerance for The novice. Not their fault, the fault is in who recommend that system over others that are much simpler and can be just as effective.
this is why you charge more when a homeowner want to help on his own project. its what my crew calls "diminishing returns" he spent more in time, effort and material than he will ever save in efficiency over his lifetime
@Jonny B I know, just referring to that old sign at the auto shop that show 3 labor rates : Normal : Customer wants to help : Tried to fix it themselves already
Wouldn't an infra-red cam show you the cold spot from inside? So you know where to drill and foam?
Not likely, heat rises there for warms and heats the mass the air is working it's way through.
The other question is how sensitive is the IR camera to start with? Many of the inexpensive ones do not show very subtle changes in temperature in a small area.
This would never had happend if you had used rockwool 500mm roof isolation. we use it here in Europe
@Robert John Thomas "iNsulation"
Folks just keep sending this guy your money.
This is getting to be do and redo.
Who else is not surprised...
Not at all, we have all been hoodwinked in to watching this build just as they coned the timber frame (we are going to build ) then got other people to do it
Won't your thermal camera help you see where the hot spots are?
When you mud the sheetrock on the inside you will stop most of the airflow. RELAX
I am sorry for you Jess, but you were warned. Thousands have warned you to wrap the house, get the siding on, and then seal the roof.
From what I have seen on SIPs is that professionals spray the foam just before they put them together and I believe Jess even said that was what he heard but wasn’t sure so they did it this different way leaving them blind when putting in the foam.
Where’s your flir camera to validate where the hot spot is?
I'm surprised you don't use your FLIR for this from inside/outside.
My $5,000 roof dont have any.
Ok let's stop guessing and just finish up electrical so you can do a blower door test and get them leaks fixed with aero barrier I have worked with sips and I also believe sealing them is more important then normal stick framing imo. Look into this product I have and will be doing it on my next house for sure.
Isnt it overdue for some siding.........? Your chasing tiny leaks that will always occur instead of finishing the "wrapping"
Seriously! I don't understand why they don't (at least) have Tyvek paper up - it's been over a year right? Even Yurts have canvas.
Maybe I'm wrong, but have not you got a FLIR for your i-phone? I think, you should go up, with the man basket in the evening or night, when the sun is set, and look at the roof with the FLIR. It will show you the hotspots.
I remember lots of people recommending that you hire a roofing contractor for the roof. Looks like they were correct...
Have you considered using a cheap endoscope camera from eBay ?
This would allow you to see the behavior of foam inside the panels and know when enough is enough.
I have used them for work inside walls with great success.
Could you use a IR camera to find the hotspots from the inside?
Maybe you guys could try an air-sealing solution like Aerobarrier, and if you can afford another project, an ERV from a reputable brand like Zehnder or Blauberg would be a solid investment. When making a house as airtight as yours, quality fresh air ventilation is a must...no pun intended. Don't let these people bother you, own your decisions, and love your life. Rooting for you guys.
Yes, a house that tightly sealed with all that foam giving off gases? Fresh air is critical.
Don't the waaterspots pon the drywall offer a clue?
Those are from the build stage. Most of his panels got wet before they went up.
Jesse,
Use your thermal camera on a cold day and look for cold spots from the inside of roof.
Zevnitř se nemusí projevit, protože teplý vzduch nahradí uniklý. Musí hledat zvenčí teplá místa. Na to má přece tu plošinu, co ji dělal měsíc místo domu.
After seeing what you are going through, I am never going to build using SIPS.
We did a big roof on a very old building here in England so glad we used 100mm batts between rafters them a t&g wood fibre sarking board outside none of these issues
I am sure it is to late now but seems to me one of those cameras for seeing inside walls with the flexible scope and a viewer screen would be perfect for this kind of job. You could see right in the are your trying to work in. I have seen them for sale in Home Depot.
there is alot of water damage on ur drywall and it looks like is more on the hotspot side then the other side.
Brandon Kelly I saw that too.
Did you see what they filled under the sofitt the other day and hes worried about the roof🤣🤣🤣😂😂 I love these guys. Happy Turkey day people🙋♂️ and may that building be air tight someday 🤭🤫
Of pull out the FLIR on the next cold morning bit both outside, and inside.
I wonder if you tried your infrared thermometer on the inside of your roof after one of the colder nights if it might show the difference in temperature in spots.
It seems like the drywall panels had watermarks where the leaks were identified. Kinda makes sense if condensate would collect there. Maybe that's your x marks the spot, at least from a viewer's perspective.
If you tape the Sheetrock it help the air flow stop.
you might try a bore camera to look in and see what is going on also measure from the ridge to get a closer spotting on them
This is why they suggest you spritz the panel gaps when you fit the panels together...
I love that spray foam! We just got to be careful because it gets everywhere quick. Thanks for sharing!
Look like I see some lite moisture stains on the drywall.
Those moisture stains will require removing the sheetrock, mud and tape will never attach properly to those stained surfaces. Five years from now the joints will start to sag and separate. I don't really understand why they are there, I did not think they left the roof off that long.
@@knotbumper The drywall was already attached to the roof SIPs when they were installed,and if I recall correctly, it rained before they got all of the SIPs installed.
It looks like people’s attention span for this house build has ended...same for the homeowners.
Maybe in 5 years this house will have siding.
Instead of buying a plane, probably should’ve had professionals install the roof.
check water stain in D/W seam below the 2nd foam job
How about trying your thermal imager on the inside?
getting your sheetrock finished is a big part of your air seal
FLIR camera might help find these.
Why are you not using your flir camera to help you.
because then they couldn't do multiple found a hot spot videos every year.
Two things, One is have you looked at getting a fiber optic inspection scope? Seems like with the SIPS and electrical cold roof gap, might be useful. Number two I could never doo what you do since over the years my fear of heights as grown over the years.
Remember folks this video was created in September. It’s at least 2 months old.
Hey stop with paying attention to details...lol
I never understood the use of the low expanding foam. This is exactly what seemed like would happen. The risk of a blowout is way lower than the risk of missing coverage IMO.
jeep6242 mostly low expanding foam is for windows and doors to keep it from causing binding if you get too much foam in. Otherwise you will have problems with both your windows and doors till you remove and fix the problem. I learned that the hard way when I accidentally use the wrong foam.
dont they have a flir cam?
You skinned the roof with the sticky moisture barrier so you should at the very least have a barrier to mitigate over filling with foam.
Happy thanksgiving from the Uk
Im sure someone had said it before but you can get borescope’s that go on iPhones could help with this and electrical chases
You did a great job on this build. I was disappointed I didn’t see this to the finish. But you got the hard part done. I wish you and the family well.
you should buy a stethscope type device you can attach to you phone to poke into these holes and look around. instead of guessing if its empty or solid.
StrykerV Borescope
Check out Building Science Insights : to vent or not to vent @ 29:41. Joe lstiburek . And also you have ice and water shield running top to bottom without venting your sip panel . It appears it's moisture finding its way up and out .
A possible way to help chase down the leak in your sips would be to us a smoke stick near your seems to see where air is moving. You have to pressurize your house.
Please don't do a another video on this
I'm thinking you guys should invest in a snake cam. Actually quite surprised you haven't... on SIPS those come in handy for everything. Happy Thanksgiving...
It looks like you cans see where there is water condensation and use that as a guide to foam.
Will it stop after it's taped and mudded?
Why is there water stains on the sheet rock, could it be moisture
Sheetrock was placed on panels before panels went on the roof. Ridge was left open for a while...
Roof was completely uncovered for almost a month in I remember correctly.
where's your thermal camera that could help find the chase
Jesse why not unscrew the drywall screws and use a utility knife to remove the Sheetrock to view ?
You'd have a great view of a layer of plywood
I learned years ago installing vinyl windows and expanding foam. Now, foams made specifically for doors and windows. Haven't seen Bugaboo lately.
If you used that handy flir thermal imager you could probably see the foam through the walls, especially if the foam was kept cold.
If you remember correctly the plasterboard was offset to the SIP. Go back and have a look at the SIP videos.
Have you thought about borrowing a thermal camera?
Don’t worry,u got all winter to chase the hot spots!😊
If you had to do the roof over, would you recommend another type of insulation or different type system? And thank you for taking the time to share this with us. Happy Thanksgiving!
Had the same question - would you use SIPS again for the roof?
Jesse, review your videos from when you installed the panels up there...Should give you a better idea (reminder) where the seem is. Then you could measure from the drywall seam.
Were you drilling sheetrock I am a contractor and I haven't seen the sips system. You have me scratching my head about the sheetrock being on the top of the rafters and not on the bottom of the rafters
They added the sheetrock to the sips then set them on the rafters. They want to see the rafters. When I saw them doing that i was thinking they might regret that decision later.
The method they’re using is an old one from long ago known as timber frame structure that they are then putting a very new method onto known as SIPs. The idea is to see the post and beams so then one needs to decide wether to notch the roof beams so the drywall can tuck under or use shims to give you a gap to tuck the drywall in or use some kind of trim after drywalling the celling or the way they did it. Otherwise it would be difficult to have a refined fit and finish. For the side walls they used shims.
My hats off to you guys for persevering. I do not even know what day this is from when you broke ground in building but I have followed you from the days you were living off grid. Would it be possible to annotate somewhere as to what day we are at in building your home?
Why not use your FLIR on the inside of the roof?
I was gonna say "attach the FLIR to the drone"
the foam as it cures will generate some heat and where it looks melted on the roof is exactly where the foam was added so my bet is you hit it perfect and melted the frost with the generated heat not a heat leakage
I would have put the foam in before the next panel goes on. So you put the panel in a bed of foam. I case of doubt, make the panel fit first, lift it a bit, foam the seam and install the panel...
kinda hard to do under their circumstances
Can you use a thermal camera to see cold or hotspots from the inside?
Borescope?
You've probably fixed it by now, but myself I would have mudded (Plastered, as we say in the UK) and tape sealed all the joints between the sheetrock (Plaster board in the UK) to stop the movement of air through the gaps.
Or just the ceiling because the walls need electrical and have no sheetrock yet
When you said how far it was from the window I was surprised because in the video it looked like the end of the hotspot was right in line with the edge of the window.
When was this video filmed??
On the temp display it said 10/02 so early October. The posted videos have been about two months behind 'realtime' since they raised the bents last year.
Just buy a cheap borescope camera attachment for your smart phone. I bought one .5mm diameter, 15’ long. For $17 Canadian?
Where did you buy the camera? We would like to pick one up!
I bought mine through Wish. But they are available online through many suppliers!
@@pilotlangdon Thanks!
I didn't know they came that long
Random idea, but what if you had a small snaking camera that could be put into the hole to look for voids?
Haven’t you built this house yet!??
I was expecting you to bust out the FLIR.
Double Dare Fan same
I wonder how bad the Blower Door Test results would be on this home?
Do you use blowerdoor tests in the US? Whats the limits?
He really needs to get an inspection camera.
I will just take the time to say Happy 🦃 Day to you guys. 👍👍👍
Do you think that some of this airflow will be slowed down or eliminated once you tape and mud the drywall seems?
...or are you guys just going to refoam the whole roof from the inside?
Check out AeroBarrier. It is an atomized caulk system that will seal every nook and cranny
You almost need a Bore Scope used to inspect rifle barrels to be able to look up into the holes and view whether or not they have foam in them.
get a camera one on a cable to stick inside there and look around
Why dont you go back thru the old videos during install and see if you missed an area from a third person view?
Did you put air sealing tape on all joints? Why no vented over roof?
Timothy Welch they have a cold roof, 1x2 strips over the sip panel vertically with 5/8 plywood over that, it ventilates above the sip below the steel
He keep calling it a hot roof though? And not just the hot spot part
Jesse and Alyssa hot spots or not, HAPPY THANKSGIVING 🍁🦃
this is not an uncommon issue with ridged (foam) insulation. The building flexes and ridged insulation separates, just the way life is. That is why I like glass batts, they flex and never loose their value. We have a roof similar with 2x12 rafters and batts. Never have any heat loss through the ceiling. The amont of heat loss you have though is still negligible, annoying perhaps, but not the end of the world. Not having siding on the house is a larger heat loss.
My SIPs builds are airtight so this would not be an issue.
What is all the condensation stains on the drywall caused from ?
Ron Ash rain before they were done with the roof.
@@duanemiller5606 Ale to je právě známka toho, že panely nebyly k sobě správně slepeny při instalaci. Když tudy tekla voda, tak tudy bude unikat teplý vzduch.
Anyone know what he said????
@Duane Miller Rough translation: It is the sign that the panel were not properly "glued" together during the installation. If the water could flow there, so could the warm air.
morbomm thanks for the information. If you could look at all my post you would see that in one or more I mentioned that professionals would put the spray foam in the joint just before they connect the two panels. I also believe Jesse made the comment that was the information he had received but he wasn’t sure so they came up with their own plan to cut the groove and then drill the holes and spray in the foam afterwards. Had they put the foam between the panels as they put them up it would’ve sealed completely and they wouldn’t be chasing leaks of water or air. They also probably would have used less foam.
Swiss cheese roof
You made a man-basket, have a telehandler with a significant reach. Why not use that to get up there, then measure where the "hotspot" is more accurately? That way you don't then have to spend forever patching a million little holes in your ceiling before you paint it or whatever you intend to do to it later?.
Seems like you've just made more work for yourself when you come to work on the ceilings at a later date, and there is a chance you're not actually filling the space that contributed to the hot spot. A few minutes with a tape measure from the man basket on the telehandler would have made sense to me.
It is odd hearing him say in September, It's Thanksgiving now.
You could try Aeroseal. It’s done with a blower door and misting caulk.