I agree with you Jason. If what I'm doing gets my arrow into a deer...or hog where I wanted it to go, then I really don't care if my form isn't what others think is "correct". Don't pay em no mind. You're a terrific teacher. I learn something every time I watch one of your videos.
Made the switch from compound this year started shooting more upright trying the to pull through and use back tension and the whole 9 yards, which felt awkward as hell and made me very inconsistent. Your videos been huge help thank you for that. I switched to a more heavy cant and static release now. What a game changer comfort and confidence wise, and when your comfortable and confident you shoot better plain and simple!
Excellent! Well said! I've been bowhunting for 35 plus years and I've tinkered and found what works for me too. Some things go against what some think is "the right way" to do it. I don't listen to them since I know what works for me. I appreciate all your videos. Keep up the great work. You are doing a good thing here!
Jason, I always enjoy watching your videos. I have also tried about all of the common methods, and always come back to the basic Hill style. For me it's not pure instinctive, as I do see my arrow in my secondary vision. It takes a lot of practice, but it's the only way, I want to shoot. On another note, I also use the double inserts to get weight in arrows, like you do. But I have screw mine together with an 8-32 screw. I find that to be really easy to do. I just screw the screw into one insert, than cut it off with about a 1/4" sticking out, lightly file on the end so the threads will start in the other insert and screw them together till they but up solid. I super glue the threads as I go. I have always wondered why you don't do it that way?
I have been doing the double insert since before they had holes in the bottom that were threaded. Still have inserts like that. So at the time I would of had to tap the holes etc. So this option was simple and quick and worked. But I bet bolting them together is better.
Ok, well, that makes sense. I was just curious. I learned the double insert practice from watching you, but my inserts are newer, so I just went the threaded bolt way on them.
You are absolutely right, archery should be fun, just do what works for you, if you hit the target where you want to hit it nobody can tell you that you are wrong
Archery is one of the individual sports there is !! Do what works for you period. If someone has an issue it’s their issue. Grown ups take what works for them and what doesn’t they throw out. Your good and that’s all that matters
Best advice i had from a old timer 20 years ago. Shoot how it works for you. Everyone has an opinion on how you should shoot. If you find a technique that allows you to shoot accurately consistently keep doing it.
I really appreciate your videos about shooting lately, Jason. I think one of the big reasons it's working so well for you is the blind bale work you're doing, and the thousands of arrows you've shot. I kind of think there's been 3 stages of archery learning learning for me that might be a good way to frame what you're trying to say. The 1st is when I needed tons of help because I was just starting. Then the 2nd is when I got the basics functional and got in my head trying make it all exactly perfect. Then the 3rd is learning to fall back on what I'd already learned, and stop trying to constantly monitor it all, and learn to feel a good vs bad shot. I think I tend to stay in the 2nd stage a lot, and don't trust what I know. I like how I've heard Rod Jenkins talk about how when the moment comes to shoot an animal, you should have done it so many times you're not thinking about it at all... just in the moment running the form (whatever that is) you've come to trust. I love your trust in your shot and confidence you have lately. Keep it up Jason, I for one love it when you get out of your lane ;)
Totally agree what works is what should be used the challenge being finding those that fit with the purpose of one's archery. Our enjoyment comes from the satisfaction that what we are doing bears fruit. As an instinctive shooter simple is good. I get it sharing like you do sets you up for negative comments no matter what approach used. You videos are helpful because they are open ended and reflect what you have found to work. Thank you for you candid thoughts and unselfish sharing.
Good for you! Stay in your lane- give me a break! Do what works for you and have fun shooting! Keep on being you. Love watching your videos. Thanks so much.
I get it. The one certain way for me to pluck the string and screw up a shot is to try to pull through the release. I have to pin my hand to my face and hold steady. Just shoot your shot. Thanks again for the great video.
Amen Jason, this is by far one of your best videos, I’ve been shooting a long time 30 plus years, do it your way and let it rip, that’s the instinctive way
Very well explained as usual. Yes, you have to go with what works. Remember, a Critic is someone who watches a battle from up on a hill, and when its over, he comes down and kills the wounded. Don't pay attention to them. I wish I could shoot as well as you do. Do you find it is easier to shoot more accurately with a Longbow as opposed to the Recurve?
Mate, I'm with you 100%. All this stuff you gotta do! I've come to the same conclusion, stick with what works. Trying all this other stuff screws me up too. I do things differently too like my thumb sticks up on my string hand but it works for me and i can'tshoot with it tucked in. If we're putting our arrows within a few inches at 20 yards why change anything?
👍👍 You are so right, learn from guidelines but ultimately do what works for you! (as long as it's repeatable) I've shot and hunted with compounds exclusively (since the turn of the century) but still enjoy watching (and learning too) from your videos.... Keep the awesome content coming!
I enjoy watching your videos an the good stuff you have to say thanks Mr Jason about to get kids an me into shooting hopefully they will enjoy it going to get the Samick sages
I’ve been using your “no mind” method of shooting. The dead hand release is magic for me. I tried the pull through and it creates a pluck. I anchor my thumb to my cheek bone. Really eliminates any creep.
Preach it Brother! I saw the same Ron LaClair video over 30 years ago and shoot just like you, which is any way I want. I don't care what other people say is "right", I shoot my way I shot with an old man at a 3D contest who anchored at the middle of his chest, and he beat everyone in our group 😂
Great point !… we agree with ya man. Definitely a lot of great instructors out there in this industry. Just keep it simple and whatever works for you do that.😎
Jason, I couldn’t agree with you more. Let me tell you about myself. I’m now 77. I have been shooting for 65 years. I started shooting at 16 years old with a Ben Pearson Golden Sovereign recurve, which I still have. In my adult life I shot compound freestyle for about 30 years. I got pretty good and have in the past trained a few people. For the most form I taught people the basics of shooting a bow. Each and every time I would tell people when they reached a certain point in their shooting, “I can’t help you anymore. You are at a point now where you have to start playing around with your shooting style and tinker around with things and find what it is that works best for you”. Two years ago I had Jeff Phillips in Alabama bulild me a semi recurve 56 inches long and 45 pounds at 28 inches. I shoot that bow Jason, about like you shoot yours as far as accuracy goes. I shot for months trying to figure out what works the best for me. And that is as follows. I use no back tension at all. I have a completely dead release, because that’s what works for me. There is no way I could ever take a lesson from someone even if I wanted, because watching me shoot one arrow would be all that it would take for them to tell me I’m doing everything wrong. So that would never work. I worked and worked for months shooting that bow until I found what works the best. I have no idea what my string arm is doing as the shot goes off. I bend at the waist and give my bow about a two o’clock cant, and I shoot exceptionallly well. So that is what I am going to stick with regardless at what anybody says or thinks. I learned a couple of months ago that what was causing my misses was the fact that my bow arm was moving right after the shot went off. Now that bow arm doesn’t move a fraction of an inch until the arrow hits the target. That’s what works for me. I don’t push toward the target, I don’t do anything most people would tell me I HAVE to do in order to shoot well. So as far as I’m concerned, a guy has to do WHATEVER it is that works for him and forget all the other stuff. I saw your earlier video where you digussed this and I never felt like you were telling people that taking lessons and doing all the standard form techniques were no good, but just that they didn’t work for you. Look at some of the top champion golfers like Jim Furryck, Lee Trevino, Chi Chi Rodriquez, etc. Those guy’s had some of the ugliest swings in all of golf. But their swings, even though unorthodox, workded for them and made them milionaires. So don’t feel bad about your comments buddy, you are 100% right in your feelings about this subject and I agree whole heartedly with you. Jim
Right on brother! I used to be big on form an aiming and it did my head in . Now I just swing draw hit anchor an bam . I’ve never shot better ! My style really horrifies some people at my club.😂
I tried the static release after you posted that last video. Guess what, it doesn't work for me and that's ok. Guess what else doesn't work, instinctive, again, that's ok. So, like you, I take the stuff that does work for me and try to perfect it. I'm trying hard right now to develop split-vision, but coming from the compound world and handguns, it is hard to give up on the front sight. I may just say the hell with it and continue with GAP. And, if I do, that's ok. Great explanation on this one!!! Now, just make sure you're in the middle lane... lol.
I’m with you, for the viewers. What is better? If your hitting the 10 ring and putting food on the table what do you need to improve. Are you chasing the perfect technique or process, good luck.
Good stuff Jason. I've been shooting only a couple years but still pluck more times than I like. I will be trying a static release and see how it goes. Keep doing what you are doing.
We have too stay with Byron Ferguson quote, he says what is perfect Archery form, far as he was concerned getting the dog gone arrow into the bullseye 🎯 but he's also surprised how many people get into traditional archery they throw away form. Obviously Jason the key with you is you have a solid belief system that your extremely confident with and your belief and words keep you solid, so truly that's the key. You can learn any style but you have too work for it, it doesn't work for you. So why change when you built your shot and you believe. Good thoughts on today's course.
Great video brother. I have found this message to be so true. You can try it all and still end up finding your own way and be better. Thanks for this one
I tried the static release but found my release hand naturally wants to fall down to my shoulder. So rather than a static or pull through release my hand simply just falls. I do focus on a target spot as well as the the stability of my lead arm for accuracy. Working well for me now. I don’t even think of my release at all. If I do, it messes me up every time. So agree, experiment but find you own way in the end and feel good about it. Will try the higher back arrows perhaps. You think they help with your accuracy?
sounds like your style is working great. I have always shot high back feathers. I shot the 5.5 inch high back feathers for 20 years and the last 10 years chopping my own 4 inch high back feathers. they do help with stability and visability.
7:56... I see the pressure , that other Clubby's (archer groupies) put on each other, to all be the same in stance, pull and release technique...it is like everyone is a cookie cut archer .... I've seen others (myself included) get shit on , teased , and triggered by our own found, natural ways of shooting , that shows better results than 3/4 of the trained archers....but they don't quit with the converting tactics..I don't want to pay 60$ to get treated and looked down for my own shooting technique. I quit attending archery clubs, cause they would put their own issues, fears, and superiority ego's in the shooting ranges and fields...I and many others, lost the wonder, and joy of archery....Now I shoot at home, and miss and miss again..but it is my way..and I love this journey. 10:07 ..Pro's get paid to do something..... Amateurs do it for the love and fun of it.
Yep and it's supposed to be fun. When it's no longer fun I won't do it anymore. And I won't let anyone tell me I'm doing right or wrong anymore. I will just do me
I think the most important thing for *NEW* archers is to hold off on learning to aim for as long as possible. Learn techniques which maximize stability and consistency. Then look at where the arrows fly and learn to aim. Once you are experienced, you can start making compromises in the nuances you are discussing. How you make those compromises certainly depends on whether you need to kill a deer at 15 yards or hit the X at 70 yards.
I have mentioned to a few of my buddies before these videos dropped, that i just get screwed up when i try to shoot like the guys thats holding on target and controlled shooting. I too have been shooting the best of my life here recently when i cleared the voices in my head saying "this is the only way to be accurate and consistent"... the beauty of trad is you have to find the bow that fits best for you and a shooting technique that works for you. I dont need to shoot over 25 yards with a trad bow, and neither should anyone else at a whitetail. Great job Jason. Respect!
I agree 100%. FWIW I never took that previous video as you trying to bash people for teaching or learning "proper" technique. The message was clearly to explore and find what works for you. Speaking as someone new to the sport, I'm keen to try all different kinds of techniques while I figure out what works best and is fun. For example, I'm trying out thumb release with a light poundage asiatic bow and khatra, which feels "right" and yet very weird at the same time. I'm crappy at the horse bow, but for some reason my accuracy shooting the recurve 3 under has noticeably gone up because I feel the bow differently now. Couldn't have predicted that at all. Keep learning and experimenting with new stuff, but hone and perfect what works the best for your style. so nice to see the colour green, btw. I have a metre of snow in my back yard and 2+ months of winter ahead.
perfectly said. try it all! Sure is nice weather down here. I dont miss the snow when we lived in michigan and had a foot on the ground from december thru end of april.
I agree with you. go with what works for you , putting that arrow where you want it is our goal . I respect the fact that you are a good shot and yes I use back tension when I shoot.
I love this video! Switched to traditional because I got bored with my compound bow peep sight, sights, release etc. I tried gap shooting and following those techniques then thought I might as well go back to my compound. Then I started shooting full instinctive. No technique just having fun shooting arrows. Trying to be like Fred. I’m having fun and enjoying archery!
This is 100% what traditional archery is all about. It's a stick and a string. Don't over complicate it. Just have fun and let your natural shootingnstyle come out and then practice!
Talking bout the mentioned static release instead of pulling trough... I was told that a static release will sooner or later damage my shoulder since the force after the release goes straight to my shoulder joint and pulling through is better for my health. Thats why i am pulling through. Has anyone a professional opinion on that? I mean, i am not a doctor...
@@SamkoTradBow Maybe i confused static release with the lack of back tension ( hand stays in the face, no pull through), so that might be two different things.
I do it mostly my way within a modified Howard Hill, split vision, instinctive gap method. It works better then the old version with the anchor spot I had from 2002--2009 before I stopped doing archery 🏹 in 2009. Before 2001 in 1998 to 2001 I was aming with an instinctive with a spot on the 🏹 window for aim help.
@@SamkoTradBowYes, I mean look at Clay Hays and how he is shooting a set gap/instinctive gap depending on distance with a pre WWII style bow and arrows most of the time. Or how other do it. I needed when starting out a gauge on the sight window be it a small piece of blue painters tape for the line or a Sharpie dot both in the same spot on most bows, almost like a fixed gap where I Corrected like a person using a gap system or the old fixed unable to go up or down pin style of target sight. Of course I got better once I found out I was left eye dominate in the second summer rec class where they showed us the proper way to test my eye dominance not the same diamond as proper but just bringing it in quick under 1second and what eye it goes to is the dominate eye where I could not get it and still can't get it anywhere except to my nose and it takes 1.5--2 seconds for me.
I think people overthink form sometimes, but there are wrong ways to shoot. I think as long as the shoulder joints are in alignment and not collapsing (take it from me, the recovery from an injury caused by this is horrible), then shoot the way you want. The only thing that matters in the grand scheme is shooting safely, but sure... if we were all perfectly proportional and could all have the "perfect" shot alignment, then that would be awesome. That's just not the case, so there's a huge variety of approaches to shooting a traditional bow.
There is no right or wrong, just shoot the way that works for you and be consistent. I also had a lot of discussions with friends and other guys from our club about technique and so on, but then I always mention the old Wilhelm brothers video where one of them doesn't really have a "regular" anchor and just shoots like out of his hip and hits everything, even shoots a cigarette out of his brothers mouth. For me the conclusion is, that there is no real "right" or "perfect" form as long as you are consistent and happy with the results and having fun. There is just a "believed" perfect form or what experts think is the "right way" to shoot, but you can alwas be proofen wrong ;) A no-go for me personally are the guys that try to correct you and give you advice and what you should change or should do differently. Especially during a 3D-tournament and other stuff. I personally experienced stuff like that and I can't understand how some people can be so brisk, that can really kill having fun while shooting. Last year I also was in a tournament with a guy who shot really fast, he wasn't even in his anchor when he released, or better said had some kind of "flying-anchor". But he still shot good and it was his way to shoot, I'd never think about correcting him or saying he is doing it wrong. I talked to an archery expert in our country with whom I also trained with once and she also said that it is a no-go to correct people and try to tell them how to do it. She says you have to be very careful with feedback, particularly during tournaments and other stuff because it can confuse them and break their concentration. The right way would be to wait until the shooting is finished and then ask if feedback is wanted or not and then tell them what you saw/think, but not to assault them. Some people are just not thinking about what they are doing or saying, or what they could trigger with it.
All fantastic points and makes alot of sense. I too hate seeing people try to correct others in the middle of a 3d event. Have witnessed that a few times.
Thank you for saying this. I learned shooting from John Schulz teaching and his shooting style, very much the same style as yours. John Schulz would've agreed with you one hundred percent.
To those of you on here having shooting difficulties please allow me to say , that maintaining the T shape while shooting will solve most of your problems.
I shoot horsebows and short native bows and I have also run into ppl *ahem* barebow archers or Olympic archers and they're very adamant that what they were told is correct and if u shoot historically correct which Olympians don't do, they object to thousands of years of a shooting style. I've even seen their champions who need tape on their noses lmao because they're obsessed with their anchor point
Funny you should mention shooting as a kid. Remember when I was 12, friend gave me an old stick bow. Two days later I killed a rabbit at 25 yards. First time I ever shot a stick bow No practice no instructions. Just like you say; pick a spot and shot that spot.
Thank you. Glad you enjoyed it. did not think about the way my other video sounded like i was knocking the amazing instructors out there until it was brought to my attention.
I'm a hunter that uses a bow. When I first picked it up in 1976 the only instructions anyone got were these put the cock feather out put 1 finger above the arrow and 2 below (split finger) don't pinch the arrow and don't pluck the string when you release. Cant the bow Look at what you want to hit and shoot it. By the fourth or fifth shot I was hitting bullseyes at 10 yards lol. I tried all the BS square to target back tension pull through blah blah blah. None of that crap matters when you're sitting down under a tree or kneeling in a crp field crawling around in heavy cover etc etc. Like I said I'm hunting that other nonsense is for target archers I've never had anything remotely resembling perfect form and never will because if I did I'd never kill anything it's the same reason I don't shoot compounds to much nonsense and time wasted to get the shot off. Traditional archery is not for everyone for the simple reason that they want instant gratification and expect nothing less. We're hunters the rest are just the results of marketing campaigns. I shoot all year and hunt 10 months out of 12 so do the trad guys I know. I got off track lol anyway my point is there are no systems or rules when it comes to archery hunting with a stick bow, it comes down to whatever works for you as an individual. If I take a new guy out to shoot I show him how to hold the bow nock the arrow grip the string and then tell him to shoot at what he wants to hit. Simple as that. You'd be suprised how many learn to hit the target on their own. There are no short cuts no magic systems. I know guys that short draw over draw snap shoot you name it, they all can hit the mark because they do what works for them. Great video keep doing what works for you, you earn every kill and that's what makes it exciting and fun. 👍
Such a fantastic comment and so well spoken. Agree 100% with everything you said. It's a stick and a string. No reason to reinvent the wheel with it. Jeep it simple and do what's comfortable.
You kill sled loads of animals the way you shoot. Don’t worry about what people say. I KNOW YOU DONT😂. The best thing I have been learning from you and my friends is archery is a very personal thing. There are good methods but what works for me may not work for you. 🏹👊🏼🤙🏼
I agree with you Jason. If what I'm doing gets my arrow into a deer...or hog where I wanted it to go, then I really don't care if my form isn't what others think is "correct". Don't pay em no mind. You're a terrific teacher. I learn something every time I watch one of your videos.
Thank you. Greatly appreciated.
Made the switch from compound this year started shooting more upright trying the to pull through and use back tension and the whole 9 yards, which felt awkward as hell and made me very inconsistent. Your videos been huge help thank you for that. I switched to a more heavy cant and static release now. What a game changer comfort and confidence wise, and when your comfortable and confident you shoot better plain and simple!
Glad it worked great for you too. Yep all that other stuff just messes me up
Excellent! Well said! I've been bowhunting for 35 plus years and I've tinkered and found what works for me too. Some things go against what some think is "the right way" to do it. I don't listen to them since I know what works for me. I appreciate all your videos. Keep up the great work. You are doing a good thing here!
Thank you. Greatly appreciated. And agree 100% we all should try it all the pick and choose and modify as we need to find what works best for us.
I don't care what others say but I love your advice- always great - thanks a lot for sharing
Thank you. Glad you are enjoying the content
Jason, I always enjoy watching your videos. I have also tried about all of the common methods, and always come back to the basic Hill style. For me it's not pure instinctive, as I do see my arrow in my secondary vision. It takes a lot of practice, but it's the only way, I want to shoot.
On another note, I also use the double inserts to get weight in arrows, like you do. But I have screw mine together with an 8-32 screw. I find that to be really easy to do. I just screw the screw into one insert, than cut it off with about a 1/4" sticking out, lightly file on the end so the threads will start in the other insert and screw them together till they but up solid. I super glue the threads as I go. I have always wondered why you don't do it that way?
I have been doing the double insert since before they had holes in the bottom that were threaded. Still have inserts like that. So at the time I would of had to tap the holes etc. So this option was simple and quick and worked. But I bet bolting them together is better.
Ok, well, that makes sense. I was just curious. I learned the double insert practice from watching you, but my inserts are newer, so I just went the threaded bolt way on them.
@@nevadafitch5647 yep the threaded method is the best way to go
You are absolutely right, archery should be fun, just do what works for you, if you hit the target where you want to hit it nobody can tell you that you are wrong
Agree 100!
Archery is one of the individual sports there is !! Do what works for you period. If someone has an issue it’s their issue. Grown ups take what works for them and what doesn’t they throw out. Your good and that’s all that matters
Thanks. I just did not want my last video to sound like I was knocking all the excellent instructors out there.
Best advice i had from a old timer 20 years ago. Shoot how it works for you. Everyone has an opinion on how you should shoot. If you find a technique that allows you to shoot accurately consistently keep doing it.
spot on and well said.
I like your advice. I really like John Dudley’s education in shooting a bow. Very systematic
Yep many fantastic instructors out there that can help anyone that needs it.
I really appreciate your videos about shooting lately, Jason. I think one of the big reasons it's working so well for you is the blind bale work you're doing, and the thousands of arrows you've shot. I kind of think there's been 3 stages of archery learning learning for me that might be a good way to frame what you're trying to say. The 1st is when I needed tons of help because I was just starting. Then the 2nd is when I got the basics functional and got in my head trying make it all exactly perfect. Then the 3rd is learning to fall back on what I'd already learned, and stop trying to constantly monitor it all, and learn to feel a good vs bad shot. I think I tend to stay in the 2nd stage a lot, and don't trust what I know. I like how I've heard Rod Jenkins talk about how when the moment comes to shoot an animal, you should have done it so many times you're not thinking about it at all... just in the moment running the form (whatever that is) you've come to trust. I love your trust in your shot and confidence you have lately. Keep it up Jason, I for one love it when you get out of your lane ;)
This is an excellent comment packed full of amazing advise and thought process. I agree on your stages 100%
Totally agree what works is what should be used the challenge being finding those that fit with the purpose of one's archery. Our enjoyment comes from the satisfaction that what we are doing bears fruit. As an instinctive shooter simple is good. I get it sharing like you do sets you up for negative comments no matter what approach used. You videos are helpful because they are open ended and reflect what you have found to work. Thank you for you candid thoughts and unselfish sharing.
Greatly appreciate this comment and agree with all your points.
Good for you! Stay in your lane- give me a break! Do what works for you and have fun shooting! Keep on being you. Love watching your videos. Thanks so much.
Thank you. Yep that phase will make my veins pop out of my neck and my wife start trying to calm me down..lol. I dont take that phase very well..lol
I get it. The one certain way for me to pluck the string and screw up a shot is to try to pull through the release. I have to pin my hand to my face and hold steady. Just shoot your shot. Thanks again for the great video.
Yep I'm the same way no matter how hard I try to fight it
Amen Jason, this is by far one of your best videos, I’ve been shooting a long time 30 plus years, do it your way and let it rip, that’s the instinctive way
Glad you enjoyed it.
Very well explained as usual. Yes, you have to go with what works. Remember, a Critic is someone who watches a battle from up on a hill, and when its over, he comes down and kills the wounded. Don't pay attention to them. I wish I could shoot as well as you do. Do you find it is easier to shoot more accurately with a Longbow as opposed to the Recurve?
Love the critic example! I can't answer the recurve vs longbow thing very well. I have not shot a recurve as a main bow in over 20 years.
Mate, I'm with you 100%. All this stuff you gotta do! I've come to the same conclusion, stick with what works. Trying all this other stuff screws me up too. I do things differently too like my thumb sticks up on my string hand but it works for me and i can'tshoot with it tucked in. If we're putting our arrows within a few inches at 20 yards why change anything?
You nailed it. Putting the arrows on the mark is all that matters. And whatever way is most comfortable for you.
👍👍 You are so right, learn from guidelines but ultimately do what works for you! (as long as it's repeatable) I've shot and hunted with compounds exclusively (since the turn of the century) but still enjoy watching (and learning too) from your videos.... Keep the awesome content coming!
Agree 100% Glad you enjoyed the videos.
I enjoy watching your videos an the good stuff you have to say thanks Mr Jason about to get kids an me into shooting hopefully they will enjoy it going to get the Samick sages
Such a great family sport. You guys will love it. And the sages are excellent bows.
Amen brother. I have figured out that no matter good the advice is, it doesn’t alway work for me either. Just having fun now.
without the fun it becomes work and work is no fun! got to have the fun factor for me to want to do it.
I’ve been using your “no mind” method of shooting. The dead hand release is magic for me. I tried the pull through and it creates a pluck. I anchor my thumb to my cheek bone. Really eliminates any creep.
Glad its working great for you too.
I don't know how to do pull through without the hand holding the bow drifting slightly to the left when I shoot.
@@Ian-yf7uf i had the same problem pulling to bow arm sideways a bit at release.
Thank you. The absolute best advice I have ever heard.
Thank you
Preach it Brother! I saw the same Ron LaClair video over 30 years ago and shoot just like you, which is any way I want.
I don't care what other people say is "right", I shoot my way
I shot with an old man at a 3D contest who anchored at the middle of his chest, and he beat everyone in our group 😂
Yep just have to be consistent. nothing else matters for me.
Great point !… we agree with ya man. Definitely a lot of great instructors out there in this industry. Just keep it simple and whatever works for you do that.😎
Exactly we are hunters not Olympic target shooter.
Agree 100% And those instructors have helped thousands become better. wanted to make my last video did not sound like a hit on them.
Yep I could never shoot target style.
Jason, I couldn’t agree with you more. Let me tell you about myself. I’m now 77. I have been shooting for 65 years. I started shooting at 16 years old with a Ben Pearson Golden Sovereign recurve, which I still have. In my adult life I shot compound freestyle for about 30 years. I got pretty good and have in the past trained a few people. For the most form I taught people the basics of shooting a bow. Each and every time I would tell people when they reached a certain point in their shooting, “I can’t help you anymore. You are at a point now where you have to start playing around with your shooting style and tinker around with things and find what it is that works best for you”. Two years ago I had Jeff Phillips in Alabama bulild me a semi recurve 56 inches long and 45 pounds at 28 inches. I shoot that bow Jason, about like you shoot yours as far as accuracy goes. I shot for months trying to figure out what works the best for me. And that is as follows. I use no back tension at all. I have a completely dead release, because that’s what works for me. There is no way I could ever take a lesson from someone even if I wanted, because watching me shoot one arrow would be all that it would take for them to tell me I’m doing everything wrong. So that would never work. I worked and worked for months shooting that bow until I found what works the best. I have no idea what my string arm is doing as the shot goes off. I bend at the waist and give my bow about a two o’clock cant, and I shoot exceptionallly well. So that is what I am going to stick with regardless at what anybody says or thinks. I learned a couple of months ago that what was causing my misses was the fact that my bow arm was moving right after the shot went off. Now that bow arm doesn’t move a fraction of an inch until the arrow hits the target. That’s what works for me. I don’t push toward the target, I don’t do anything most people would tell me I HAVE to do in order to shoot well. So as far as I’m concerned, a guy has to do WHATEVER it is that works for him and forget all the other stuff. I saw your earlier video where you digussed this and I never felt like you were telling people that taking lessons and doing all the standard form techniques were no good, but just that they didn’t work for you. Look at some of the top champion golfers like Jim Furryck, Lee Trevino, Chi Chi Rodriquez, etc. Those guy’s had some of the ugliest swings in all of golf. But their swings, even though unorthodox, workded for them and made them milionaires. So don’t feel bad about your comments buddy, you are 100% right in your feelings about this subject and I agree whole heartedly with you.
Jim
Thank you! love everything about this comment and the examples are spot on perfect. Thank you for taking the time to write this out.
I always look forward to your videos!
Glad you are enjoying them.
Right on brother! I used to be big on form an aiming and it did my head in . Now I just swing draw hit anchor an bam . I’ve never shot better ! My style really horrifies some people at my club.😂
lol. Yep I get some one at every 3d shoot ask me why I cant my bow so much or why im hunched over and they offer advise to fix me.
I tried the static release after you posted that last video. Guess what, it doesn't work for me and that's ok. Guess what else doesn't work, instinctive, again, that's ok. So, like you, I take the stuff that does work for me and try to perfect it. I'm trying hard right now to develop split-vision, but coming from the compound world and handguns, it is hard to give up on the front sight. I may just say the hell with it and continue with GAP. And, if I do, that's ok.
Great explanation on this one!!! Now, just make sure you're in the middle lane... lol.
You are 100% correct. It's all OK! Find what works best for you!
I’m with you, for the viewers. What is better? If your hitting the 10 ring and putting food on the table what do you need to improve. Are you chasing the perfect technique or process, good luck.
this statement hit the nail right on the head. Im going to use this statement alot. Thank you.
Great talk thanks so much for sharing!
Thank you. Glad you enjoyed it.
Good stuff Jason. I've been shooting only a couple years but still pluck more times than I like. I will be trying a static release and see how it goes. Keep doing what you are doing.
Glad you enjoyed the video and that you are loving shooting a traditional bow.
We have too stay with Byron Ferguson quote, he says what is perfect Archery form, far as he was concerned getting the dog gone arrow into the bullseye 🎯 but he's also surprised how many people get into traditional archery they throw away form. Obviously Jason the key with you is you have a solid belief system that your extremely confident with and your belief and words keep you solid, so truly that's the key. You can learn any style but you have too work for it, it doesn't work for you. So why change when you built your shot and you believe. Good thoughts on today's course.
excellent points! agree 100% and appreciate the comment.
You are so rite. Take what you can use and run with it
Great video brother. I have found this message to be so true. You can try it all and still end up finding your own way and be better. Thanks for this one
agree 100. Glad you enjoyed it.
I tried the static release but found my release hand naturally wants to fall down to my shoulder. So rather than a static or pull through release my hand simply just falls. I do focus on a target spot as well as the the stability of my lead arm for accuracy. Working well for me now. I don’t even think of my release at all. If I do, it messes me up every time. So agree, experiment but find you own way in the end and feel good about it. Will try the higher back arrows perhaps. You think they help with your accuracy?
sounds like your style is working great. I have always shot high back feathers. I shot the 5.5 inch high back feathers for 20 years and the last 10 years chopping my own 4 inch high back feathers. they do help with stability and visability.
@@SamkoTradBow Thanks, Jason. I was thinking they were just for better visibility and recovery.
7:56... I see the pressure , that other Clubby's (archer groupies) put on each other, to all be the same in stance, pull and release technique...it is like everyone is a cookie cut archer ....
I've seen others (myself included) get shit on , teased , and triggered by our own found, natural ways of shooting , that shows better results than 3/4 of the trained archers....but they don't quit with the converting tactics..I don't want to pay 60$ to get treated and looked down for my own shooting technique.
I quit attending archery clubs, cause they would put their own issues, fears, and superiority ego's in the shooting ranges and fields...I and many others, lost the wonder, and joy of archery....Now I shoot at home, and miss and miss again..but it is my way..and I love this journey.
10:07 ..Pro's get paid to do something.....
Amateurs do it for the love and fun of it.
Yep and it's supposed to be fun. When it's no longer fun I won't do it anymore. And I won't let anyone tell me I'm doing right or wrong anymore. I will just do me
I think the most important thing for *NEW* archers is to hold off on learning to aim for as long as possible. Learn techniques which maximize stability and consistency. Then look at where the arrows fly and learn to aim. Once you are experienced, you can start making compromises in the nuances you are discussing. How you make those compromises certainly depends on whether you need to kill a deer at 15 yards or hit the X at 70 yards.
For sure. 100% agree
I have mentioned to a few of my buddies before these videos dropped, that i just get screwed up when i try to shoot like the guys thats holding on target and controlled shooting. I too have been shooting the best of my life here recently when i cleared the voices in my head saying "this is the only way to be accurate and consistent"... the beauty of trad is you have to find the bow that fits best for you and a shooting technique that works for you. I dont need to shoot over 25 yards with a trad bow, and neither should anyone else at a whitetail.
Great job Jason. Respect!
Agree on all points!
I agree 100%. FWIW I never took that previous video as you trying to bash people for teaching or learning "proper" technique. The message was clearly to explore and find what works for you. Speaking as someone new to the sport, I'm keen to try all different kinds of techniques while I figure out what works best and is fun. For example, I'm trying out thumb release with a light poundage asiatic bow and khatra, which feels "right" and yet very weird at the same time. I'm crappy at the horse bow, but for some reason my accuracy shooting the recurve 3 under has noticeably gone up because I feel the bow differently now. Couldn't have predicted that at all. Keep learning and experimenting with new stuff, but hone and perfect what works the best for your style. so nice to see the colour green, btw. I have a metre of snow in my back yard and 2+ months of winter ahead.
perfectly said. try it all! Sure is nice weather down here. I dont miss the snow when we lived in michigan and had a foot on the ground from december thru end of april.
I agree with you. go with what works for you , putting that arrow where you want it is our goal . I respect the fact that you are a good shot and yes I use back tension when I shoot.
back tension, pull thru release, etc are all fantastic and no doubt create better form.
I love this video! Switched to traditional because I got bored with my compound bow peep sight, sights, release etc. I tried gap shooting and following those techniques then thought I might as well go back to my compound. Then I started shooting full instinctive. No technique just having fun shooting arrows. Trying to be like Fred. I’m having fun and enjoying archery!
This is 100% what traditional archery is all about. It's a stick and a string. Don't over complicate it. Just have fun and let your natural shootingnstyle come out and then practice!
Well said. Can't disagree with a single thing you said.
Thank you.
Talking bout the mentioned static release instead of pulling trough... I was told that a static release will sooner or later damage my shoulder since the force after the release goes straight to my shoulder joint and pulling through is better for my health.
Thats why i am pulling through. Has anyone a professional opinion on that? I mean, i am not a doctor...
never heard that before. would be curious what a doctor says too. but I cant imagine it being all that true in my mind. but definitely curious.
@@SamkoTradBow Maybe i confused static release with the lack of back tension ( hand stays in the face, no pull through), so that might be two different things.
I do it mostly my way within a modified Howard Hill, split vision, instinctive gap method. It works better then the old version with the anchor spot I had from 2002--2009 before I stopped doing archery 🏹 in 2009. Before 2001 in 1998 to 2001 I was aming with an instinctive with a spot on the 🏹 window for aim help.
Thats what its all about. finding what works best for you and experimenting until you find it.
@@SamkoTradBowYes, I mean look at Clay Hays and how he is shooting a set gap/instinctive gap depending on distance with a pre WWII style bow and arrows most of the time. Or how other do it. I needed when starting out a gauge on the sight window be it a small piece of blue painters tape for the line or a Sharpie dot both in the same spot on most bows, almost like a fixed gap where I Corrected like a person using a gap system or the old fixed unable to go up or down pin style of target sight. Of course I got better once I found out I was left eye dominate in the second summer rec class where they showed us the proper way to test my eye dominance not the same diamond as proper but just bringing it in quick under 1second and what eye it goes to is the dominate eye where I could not get it and still can't get it anywhere except to my nose and it takes 1.5--2 seconds for me.
Yep yep and yep 👍. I've always been a contrarian also. Wouldn't change a think.
Has served me well in my life too.
I think people overthink form sometimes, but there are wrong ways to shoot. I think as long as the shoulder joints are in alignment and not collapsing (take it from me, the recovery from an injury caused by this is horrible), then shoot the way you want. The only thing that matters in the grand scheme is shooting safely, but sure... if we were all perfectly proportional and could all have the "perfect" shot alignment, then that would be awesome. That's just not the case, so there's a huge variety of approaches to shooting a traditional bow.
agree 100%
We all have what works for us individually. i am self taught and what i do works for me. others can say what they want
Agree 100%
There is no right or wrong, just shoot the way that works for you and be consistent.
I also had a lot of discussions with friends and other guys from our club about technique and so on, but then I always mention the old Wilhelm brothers video where one of them doesn't really have a "regular" anchor and just shoots like out of his hip and hits everything, even shoots a cigarette out of his brothers mouth.
For me the conclusion is, that there is no real "right" or "perfect" form as long as you are consistent and happy with the results and having fun.
There is just a "believed" perfect form or what experts think is the "right way" to shoot, but you can alwas be proofen wrong ;)
A no-go for me personally are the guys that try to correct you and give you advice and what you should change or should do differently. Especially during a 3D-tournament and other stuff. I personally experienced stuff like that and I can't understand how some people can be so brisk, that can really kill having fun while shooting. Last year I also was in a tournament with a guy who shot really fast, he wasn't even in his anchor when he released, or better said had some kind of "flying-anchor". But he still shot good and it was his way to shoot, I'd never think about correcting him or saying he is doing it wrong.
I talked to an archery expert in our country with whom I also trained with once and she also said that it is a no-go to correct people and try to tell them how to do it. She says you have to be very careful with feedback, particularly during tournaments and other stuff because it can confuse them and break their concentration.
The right way would be to wait until the shooting is finished and then ask if feedback is wanted or not and then tell them what you saw/think, but not to assault them. Some people are just not thinking about what they are doing or saying, or what they could trigger with it.
All fantastic points and makes alot of sense. I too hate seeing people try to correct others in the middle of a 3d event. Have witnessed that a few times.
@@SamkoTradBow Yeah I witnessed that too on myself and on friends. There seem to be a lot of people like that out there, but yeah whatever.
Excellent content Jason. "Stay in your lane." Ha Ha
love it
Glad you enjoyed it! I'm from the country our lanes are not well marked😂
Bravo
Thanks
Thank you for saying this. I learned shooting from John Schulz teaching and his shooting style, very much the same style as yours. John Schulz would've agreed with you one hundred percent.
Thanks. Glad you enjoyed it
👏👏👏👏👏
Your absolutely right do what works for you not what works 4others
Agree 100%
Thanks
Right on!!!!
Thanks.
i agree, shoot the best when my hand does not move at the shot.
Yep me too. have spent many years trying to correct it. no more. I dont care what my hand does now.
I do agree with what you said.
Thanks
To those of you on here having shooting difficulties please allow me to say , that maintaining the T shape while shooting will solve most of your problems.
great advise. and 100% correct.
I shoot a striker bow 43 lbs i don't know what i do but i must do it consistently.
Thats the key! consistency is all that matters.
I shoot horsebows and short native bows and I have also run into ppl *ahem* barebow archers or Olympic archers and they're very adamant that what they were told is correct and if u shoot historically correct which Olympians don't do, they object to thousands of years of a shooting style. I've even seen their champions who need tape on their noses lmao because they're obsessed with their anchor point
Yep all kinds of styles out there. Find what works best for you
Funny you should mention shooting as a kid. Remember when I was 12, friend gave me an old stick bow. Two days later I killed a rabbit at 25 yards. First time I ever shot a stick bow No practice no instructions. Just like you say; pick a spot and shot that spot.
Yep as we get older we try to over think things
👍👍👍👍👍👍👌👌👏👏👌👌👏👏💖💖
I commend you jason...
Thank you. Glad you enjoyed it. did not think about the way my other video sounded like i was knocking the amazing instructors out there until it was brought to my attention.
I tried a lot of different things some worked others didn't
Yep thats the best way to find what works for you
I'm a hunter that uses a bow. When I first picked it up in 1976 the only instructions anyone got were these put the cock feather out put 1 finger above the arrow and 2 below (split finger) don't pinch the arrow and don't pluck the string when you release. Cant the bow Look at what you want to hit and shoot it. By the fourth or fifth shot I was hitting bullseyes at 10 yards lol.
I tried all the BS square to target back tension pull through blah blah blah. None of that crap matters when you're sitting down under a tree or kneeling in a crp field crawling around in heavy cover etc etc. Like I said I'm hunting that other nonsense is for target archers I've never had anything remotely resembling perfect form and never will because if I did I'd never kill anything it's the same reason I don't shoot compounds to much nonsense and time wasted to get the shot off. Traditional archery is not for everyone for the simple reason that they want instant gratification and expect nothing less. We're hunters the rest are just the results of marketing campaigns. I shoot all year and hunt 10 months out of 12 so do the trad guys I know. I got off track lol anyway my point is there are no systems or rules when it comes to archery hunting with a stick bow, it comes down to whatever works for you as an individual. If I take a new guy out to shoot I show him how to hold the bow nock the arrow grip the string and then tell him to shoot at what he wants to hit. Simple as that. You'd be suprised how many learn to hit the target on their own. There are no short cuts no magic systems. I know guys that short draw over draw snap shoot you name it, they all can hit the mark because they do what works for them.
Great video keep doing what works for you, you earn every kill and that's what makes it exciting and fun. 👍
Such a fantastic comment and so well spoken. Agree 100% with everything you said. It's a stick and a string. No reason to reinvent the wheel with it. Jeep it simple and do what's comfortable.
You kill sled loads of animals the way you shoot. Don’t worry about what people say. I KNOW YOU DONT😂. The best thing I have been learning from you and my friends is archery is a very personal thing. There are good methods but what works for me may not work for you. 🏹👊🏼🤙🏼
Thank you. Agree 100% its a very personal thing