Americans Are Racking Up ‘Phantom Debt’ Wall Street Can’t Track
Вставка
- Опубліковано 14 чер 2024
- Paulina Cachero, Bloomberg Personal Finance Reporter, and Paige Smith, Bloomberg Consumer Finance Reporter, join to discuss this weeks Big Take on Americans Are Racking Up ‘Phantom Debt’ Wall Street Can’t Track. They spoke with Paul Sweeney and Alix Steel
--------
Watch Bloomberg Radio LIVE on UA-cam
Weekdays 7am-6pm ET
WATCH HERE: bit.ly/3vTiACF
Follow us on X: / bloombergradio
Subscribe to our Podcasts:
Bloomberg Daybreak: bit.ly/3DWYoAN
Bloomberg Surveillance: bit.ly/3OPtReI
Bloomberg Intelligence: bit.ly/3YrBfOi
Balance of Power: bit.ly/3OO8eLC
Bloomberg Businessweek: bit.ly/3IPl60i
Listen on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app:
Apple CarPlay: apple.co/486mghI
Android Auto: bit.ly/49benZy
Visit our UA-cam channels:
Bloomberg Podcasts: / bloombergpodcasts
Bloomberg Television: / @markets
Bloomberg Originals: / bloomberg
Quicktake: / @bloombergquicktake
Layaway was different. You didn't get the stuff you purchased until it was paid for. The seller just held it for you until it was paid. With buy now, pay later, you get the stuff right away and are in "debt" to the issuer.
Amazon tried that with 'save now buy later' and discontinued it after a few weeks. People were smart enough to figure out that lending interest-free loans to megacorps was foolish.
@@antiquehealbot6543 This was done in my area as a Xmas hack for parents. Stores were open longer hours which allowed them to shop while the curtain climbers were fast asleep. It allowed the parents to shop early, select the items they wanted (while still in stock), pay a small down payment and pick it up later when convenient. This also meant they parents didn't have to find hiding places for everything until closer to Xmas. My parents did this for many years.
Exactly. The guy in the video obviously never used layaway.
Or, he’s never experienced buy now pay later and thought it was the same
He asked the question so that people can get their answer, because that is a general question for people who are older than millennial. My mother doesn’t know what it is so she would’ve asked us another question that’s the purpose of the format of the question to sound like the audience isn’t silly for having these questions.
This is not at all like layaway. In a layaway plan you pay over time and get the item at the end. This allows you immediate access to the item, no delayed gratification. Buy now pay later is not the same as layaway.
In layaway there is no interest involved though there can be a fee. I am convinced that none of these people know anything.
@@raul0ca Some layaway places did charge fees.
@@SiXiam Yes, and some plans may be required to return what you've paid into the plan minus fees if you change your mind
In addition to this, if life happens and you find that you can't really afford the item, you can back out of the purchase and get all or almost all of your money back. There's enough substantial incentive for stores to provide layaway service even if it's at a low or no fee rate. No doubt there are a lot of people who have large discretionary purchases they end up wishing they hadn't made, and these people would've been able to back out on those purchases if it was on layaway instead of being purchased with credit.
@@raul0ca They aren't real reporters thats why. All these talk show hosts are basically brain dead from reading the prompter and occasionally inserting their own dumb opinion.
How about save now and buy later
That will be completely un-american.
Inflation isn't going anywhere
Inflation
Sounds CONFUSING!
Lmao bold of you to assume common sense is still common 🤣
The biggest debts I racked up during a tough period while I was building a business were for deferred maintenance and healthcare. I put off replacing the shocks and struts on the truck, didn’t see a doctor for a few years, didn’t replace worn out clothing, etc. This deferred debt for essentials adds up quickly and become huge.
The banks arent getting the interest. Its gotta be driving them nuts.
That’s exactly it since these services don’t charge interest except in very specific cases. So it’s really attractive for people to do that instead of the 25%-30% interest credit cards they are trying to push on people
@@GwenApMannanan Yeah the retailer pays the finance cost in the form of a processing fee.
I think daily late fees on unpaid installments are the business plan.
@@containercore6832 thats why you pay if off fast so you aren’t late and you also don’t suffer from interest
@@GwenApMannanan pay the credit card off in full when the bill comes and there is NO interest charge.
Ultra rich love it when the middle class spend money. Makes them richer.
The wealthy to the middle class: That's a you problem.
I’m not defending the rich, but you had to give them some of your money to at least post this comment. Stop buying things that are owned by wealthy people, go to flea-markets.
@@mehnameehjeff6325 you’re going to buy the phone or the computer that you post on from a flea market? Was that phone or computer never built by a wealthy person?
What middle class? It's 2024.
Stupid middle class is spending money they don't yet have.
It's not difficult for consumers to keep track. It's called BUDGETING!!!!
Obviously it is, look at the economy.
Debt isn't a problem today, but a problem for tomorrow.
Actually, sometimes PayPal offers an interest-free period for select purchases that are $100+ for a period of 6 months! So, you don't always have to use this sort of thing instead of using regular credit cards. Instead, you can use them when it benefits you like a perk and then just pay in full when you can to avoid any interest. Personally, I use this to conveniently pay for some special things like streaming live K-Pop concerts.
These payments are automated. How are ppl “losing track” or “missing payments?” Both the panel and ppl commenting have no clue how buy now, pay later works 😂
exactly. I just saw a comment above yours that someone said they forgot about a payment and they had to pay a fee. It literally is automatic.
It depends. If your bank account is linked and set up for automatic payment, then yes it's automatic and as long as you have enough balance in the account to pay then there won't be a problem. However, it is also an option to not set up an automatic payment system so yes, missing payments can and do happen
And this commercial debt is not the only "phantom" debt. People who borrow from family and friends, even those loans that are drawn up in contract with a notary are not seen or even known about. This could be not just for money loans, but for cars sold to them on time, maybe with interest. No one can estimate what the phantom debt is. I loaned a family member $400 a few months ago. She just paid it back with $100 interest I did not ask for or expect. That kind of loan goes on all the time between family/friends.
I use credit cards as much as possible to earn airline miles, but I pay off the credit cards in full every few days and this allows me to not have any surprises.
Question. What is the trend in debt/income ratios?
I used buy now pay later once and I forgot about one of the payments which I have never done and they charge me like $50 fee
ALL the BNPL public companies have 10-Qs detailing EXACTLY how much BNPL debt is outstanding
"We don't know" is EXCUSE for not reading the reports.
LOLZ
the thing is that, the gov wants to have in on the action. so it's using the, "we need to know how much consumer debt" bs as an excuse
Wonder what would happen if credit as a concept is terminated worldwide ..
The end of civilization
Most government, utilities, business, healthcare, etc. would all fail and complete primitive anarchy would prevail.
Civilization would collapse... unless everyone kept doing their job and just got what they needed without an exchange of currency.
People wouldn’t buy shit they can’t afford or have no intention of keeping. Would solve a lot of problems if you ask me.
The problem with buy now pay later is that many of the customers are not America but around the world these companies offer a global service so how do you break it down to just the America buyers? And lets not forget there is other debt not reported like owner financing, how many used cars are sold with owner financing?
You won't see me getting roped into that nonsense
loll, it’s a bill. Adults pay their bills back. Not really a big deal.
@@michelleadams5609 yes but most adults can't adult.
@@zjones9876 This presentation makes it sound like BNPL is a new concept that wouldn't have a market. I have used it in the past for large Costco purchases (all meats, single ingredients, and some staples) to budget and meal plan for the week. I used it for a large electric bill.
No interest and I budgeted the payments.
It's shortsighted to demonize BNPL across the board when this wouldn't be done to other "phantom debt" like leasing equipment for a business. It's massive "debt" on speculation that if the company cannot pay their payments, the equipment is repo'd, the business goes under and then we have these idiots reporting on it.
But my $25 a week, no interest is the real consumer problem. Please. lol
It's shortsighted to demonize BNPL across the board when this wouldn't be done to other "phantom debt" like leasing equipment for a business. It's massive "debt" on speculation that if the company cannot pay their payments, the equipment is repo'd, the business goes under.
But my $25 a week, no interest is the real consumer problem. Please. lol
I don't condone the use of BNPL, but clearly, you all have never had a $900 electric bill, a $300 rent increase, and a $2,000 care repair in one week? Must be nice. I have used BNPL in between pay periods and during the pandemic.
They do report to the bureaus.
This is the problem with everything: debt, debt, debt, and more debt.
Stop ✋🏻 providing debt services! For goodness sake!!! 😳
STOP SPENDING!
My personal debt: $0
@@user-bf4cm6ef8l and here. And I do use a card to get points for free money. I haven't paid interest in years.
Literally no one cares. Pointless comment.
Do you own a home? You have tax debt due every year. There is no escape only mitigation.
Buy later, pay later is the smarter thing to do.
Adrian and his wife borrowed $117,000 from a private lender. That debt is never made known to the credit reporting agencies.
It's not hard as long as you don't do something stupid like purchase a $1000 item with it. 🤦♂️
You have to give credit to companies for being able to create a system where micro loans can be approved so fast.
That is not layaway
DEBT IS THE AMERICAN WAY! 🇺🇸
Layaway seemed to be more for big purchases, or Christmas gifts. Now it's availed for daily shopping, even saw a video about take out offering it!
Let me keep an eye out for stock prices in these companies.
Klarna ® is one of the best ways to describe this.
So, we're screwed......eventually.
Every time I used to see "buy now pay later", I always thought to myself that it would be very stupid of me to buy something that I couldn't afford if it was more than a few hundred dollars. As others have mentioned, it is something that you receive right away rather than lay away.Being something that you get after you pay it off entirely. Just because this allows you to split up your purchases into four or five different payments doesn't mean that you should because those payments are going to be hundreds of dollars each. It's actually scary how many people do this. "Buy now pay later" allows people to spend thousands, sometimes, if it's an eligible item. And they usually take it straight from your account.Once the billing takes place so you could have less money in your account than is required and incur overdraft fees. People have fallen into trouble with this because they are not Financially savvy. The united states does not teach financial literacy at all
It caters to those with no discipline.
The problem with financial literacy is that for most people that doesn’t work. See all the fat people around you? I guarantee 100% of them know how to lose weight.
People are largely impulsive and hedonistic. They *know* how to be better but they just aren’t.
These services don't suddenly let you buy something that is thousands of dollars. Usually you have to build up a profile with them.
The ironic thing is...the all of the wealthy do this. Most successful companies are built on mountains of debt, to the point our economy would collapse tomorrow if they were forced to pay that debt. Odd that "financially savvy" people don't know this, or fail to mention it, and only talk about how "stupid" working class people are for having debt. Very odd.
Imagine if 17 TRILLION dollars was suddenly pulled out of the stock market......
We are playing with absolute fire. This bubble is going to burst, and it's going to be messy.
Layaway was a completely different finance scheme. You pay all the installments overtime and once everything is paid off then you’re given the merchandise.
Yeah, they're crossing their fingers and hoping they'll be let off the hook.
Just consider too the number of payday loan companies popping up that DIRECTLY LINK to people's paychecks. Tell me that doesn't enable poor decisions.
Yes! A new Black Swan!
[You're too smart for the rest of these Bimbo's. Here's my secret plan, Bro ...] For me, I am charging up as much debt as I can. Because I know that I'll never pay it off. So, when the economy tanks, then I will just file a bankruptcy and get rid of everything. I'm already about $350k (or more) in debt for just credit cards, vehicles, and other loans. So, it'd be nice to not have to pay a few thousand a month in financing fees.
How cant track?
The amount of by now pay later/phantom debt, isn’t the problem, it’s how much of that people are not actually paying. What’s that number?? 🧐🤔
That's the point. None of that information is available.
@@jordank249 read the 10-Qs filing of public listed BNPL for bad debts
Buy now pay more !
How? Do you even know how this works? 😀
Buy now pay later is a vicious cycle. When you pay that, you will still need to pay for what you need that day, guess you take another loan. It's like payday loan scams.
It’s called layaway.
All I've heard here is "you know" phrase repetition 😂
4:55 the FDIC? Really, that's your first guess?
Oh those poor people! Messing up the numbers. Rich people don't have this debt because its crazy expensive if you step outta line.
I like Klarna
I hate credit cards
Where consumers get into financial trouble every time is via lack of discipline. Cash is King. "F" the credit card programs. Save now, maybe buy it later. Maybe.
BNPL is insane. Its how a lot of these young wannabe "influencers" get all of these expensive clothes, shoes and makeup. It can be financially dangerous because your not looking at the total cost that you are paying, just at "$50 every two weeks".
You’re joking. It’s not. The limits aren’t large enough.
I sleep better without debt. It’s been 30 years since I’ve bought anything on credit. In the eighties I owed the credit card companies $20,000 after I got that paid I was done with credit. Better to do without than to create debt.
There will always be someone to take care of. Medical debt especially. They’ll make sure everyone is going to be beholdijg
This sounds like the making of the next recession.
I use buy now pay later and it can be a life saver for some of us on a budget it can help. Everyone in these comments being a weirdo, it’s not like credit card debt and you have to put the first payment down etc. some of you are just mad us poor people have an option to pay for stuff it’s literally sad.
if buy now and pay later public listed, then just look at their balance sheet.
Again, clearly people are not using their brains. Debt is debt. VC platforms are the most redundant and useless mechanisms out in the market place now. Just say no to the next VC scam!
Nobody knows how much is out there...but your "conservative estimate" is 48bil...?
okay.
The military has this problem. We lost contact with our commander in the attack. We estimate 500 dead, 1000 wounded. There is a science to estimating without discrete information.
Paulina is so well spoken and articulate. Watch CNN scoop her up soon
lol. Have you ever seen CNN?
I'd stick with Bloomberg if I were her
um, uh, you know...
So CNN hires competent people, now?!?!?😅😂🤣
So no discipline.
Credit cards add up faster than you expect. Stay on top of them.
[Not really, if you know how to play the game. Here's my secret plan, Bro ...] For me, I am charging up as much debt as I can. Because I know that I'll never pay it off. So, when the economy tanks, then I will just file a bankruptcy and get rid of everything. I'm already about $350k (or more) in debt for just credit cards, vehicles, and other loans. So, it'd be nice to not have to pay a few thousand a month in financing fees.
These Bloomberg reporters tend to evade the questions, and are appear very evasive. Not impressed with this video.
For me, I am charging up as much debt as I can. Because I know that I'll never pay it off. So, when the economy tanks, then I will just file a bankruptcy and get rid of everything. I'm already about $350k (or more) in debt for just credit cards, vehicles, and other loans. So, it'd be nice to not have to pay a few thousand a month in financing fees.
You guys are so pessimistic. It's called buy now, pay better.
Wall st can't track or wall st can't steal?
@BloombergBusiness It's on the companies to ensure they offer the right consumers Buy Now Pay Later.
Good Point: this phantom debt should be called "Buy Now Run Away" !