Vibration Torturing the Technics SL-1200G and SL1500C
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- Опубліковано 2 лип 2024
- Link to Franciscos Video
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I’ve become a fan of Sky-fi Audio over the last several months because of the great videos!!😊
Glad you like them and thanks for leaving a comment. It means a lot.
No matter how well reviewed the SL1200 is I wonder how many audiophiles just cannot get over the DJ deck looks. Technics should make a purist version. Like the 1500 but retaining the 1200's materials and structure.
I hear you but for the record, Technics made the turntable for audiophiles THEN the DJs discovered it. I understand once that happened technics asked the DJs for feedback for the MKII.
And yes; the layperson will continue to associate that table with DJs but that could be to our advantage as in the near future we find one at a garage sale and get it for a couple hundred bucks😅
They are. It's called SP10 but it's at least twice as expensive. The speed adjustment is useful for audiophiles that want to play 78rpm records. Not that the SL1200 can play 78rpm records but that's another matter.
@@Stelios.Posantzis I am aware of the SP10 but that's at a higher level entirely. What would really get me interested is something that looks like an SP10 but with the 1200's plinth structure, motor and platter. Available without arm but with a choice of armboards. That should be cheaper and better in purely sonic terms than any 1200.
@@Stelios.Posantzis I am aware of the SP10 but that's at a higher level entirely. What would really get me interested is something that looks like an SP10 but with the 1200's plinth structure, motor and platter. Available without arm but with a choice of armboards. That should be cheaper and better in purely sonic terms than any 1200.
@@Stelios.PosantzisMy SL-1200GR can play 78s (if I had any 🤣)
Excellent demonstration of the S-1200G, it's a beautifully engineered piece of gear (built like a tank) I'm glad I purchased my SL-1200G through SkyFi Audio, I am having a great time with mine!
Hey thanks for the business Im so happy to hear your enjoying it. Remind me what cartridge did you go with? Did we calibrate for you?
@@SkyFiAudio I setup it up myself using my Dynavector - 20x2-L MC. I will upgrade a new cartridge later. Thanks!
Good video! Impressive turntable, the 1200g!
Nice comparison.
This is really appreciated and helps me explain the benefits of a more expensive turntable to my peers that tend to think I'm crazy lol
A really good simple test, I can see this working the same way in testing speaker isolation feet and furniture.
Thanks so much for doing this; I appreciate the lengths SkyFi goes to just to please their clients, and even their subscribers. I sure wish you had a Chicago location; your 12-point cartridge setup would be worth it for piece of mind.
We are constantly improving our 12 step calibration, learning something new almost weekly as we do more and more tables. For the record, Technics turntables travel very well after calibration so folks anywhere in the US should not hesitate to have it done by us. Thanks for writing sir.
Excellent video! Good job Fernando.
Very interesting: I want will see same compramision with Tecnics and old icon turntable: Thorens 124, Garrard 301/401. 🙂
This is way better than just having some goose claim what they can hear.
This type of video demonstrates it instead of simply making a claim.
Glad you recognize actual testing versus a bunch of hot air.
Great job. Very informative.
Wow. This is great. I'm researching vibration absorption tweaks to reduce the noise floor of my turntable from the platform, the platter, the plinth, the record and the tonearm. This includes some DIY ideas. One of my DIY ideas is to put brass weights on the plinth to reduce vibrations to the tonearm. You phone app would be an excellent measuring tool to use for this. I have Denon DP-52F and a JVC QL-Y55F TTs.
Two things that might help you- Eric Antonow' "Silent Meditation", an LP that is completely silent(!). So you can actually play a record and measure motor noise or extraneous sound vibrations. The visual display of frequency in Adobe Audition would also could be a better tool than your ocilloscope. Great video, though.
What a view at your place 😍
Right? Makes every day special. :-).
That’s really interesting, thanks! What would also be interesting is a comparison between the G and the GR2.
Fascinating ! Well done. Curious since 1200GR2 was announced last year, I wonder if this means the 1200G2 is coming out anytime soon ?
Would love a video specifically targeting "rumble" or woofer flutter etc. using speakers and subs.
The SL-1200G is a tank, the core parts running up to... and including the platter are far better.
Technics shows the difference in parts on some websites, they seem very honest about the price to parts difference.
Thank-you for doing this test.
My review of the SL1200G and factory tour linked above show more of the internals if anyone wants to have a deeper dive.
A great comparison... pushing me over the edge for an SL-1200G.
Question: Wouldn't the addition of a sound/vibration absorbing mat under the feet of the player help significantly? I never see them mentioned or shown in videos dealing with audio equipment. Why so? Wouldn't that make for an interesting UA-cam video presentation of your own using the same testing layout used in this Torture test of yours? Looking forward to the followup!
This was awesome, and thanks for the effort doing this. I would also like to see the benefits of isolation platforms under the tables with the same rig here. That would be interesting as well, and perhaps help find a solution.
Thanks for the idea! Im sure an isolation platform would help with regards to vibrations induced through the table but not much with regards to those coming throughout the air.
@@SkyFiAudioRe. the airborne vibrations.... Is a big mass of a tutntable the only real solution for that?
Very nice test - and the 1200G looks impressing. It is a shame that the accelerometer is saturated - have you considered to exchange the position of the two record players? If the 1500 is on a place with positive resonance, this could explain the 20Hz part which is higher at the placement where the 1500C is placed.
pretty interesting test. table or room vibrations are part of the noise component. The other part is how well the chassis damps the vibrations coming down the arm from the cartridge. Have owned some high dollar belt drive tables and the 1200G and 1000R are quite a bit better sonically. they both get you closer to the sound of high speed tape.
Glad you enjoyed the video. I tried to illustrate how the vibrations are damped at the tonearm but it was hard to do properly with an iPhone, an accelerometer would have been better for this test. I agree high speed tape still beats any record.
Nice test! I'd love to see a test where instead of using a transducer on the table to test vibrations that are passed through the feet of the turntables, music is played in the room at different levels (from a second source not involving the test turntable) while the stylus sits still on the record to see how much vibration is picked up through the air like a microphone. I'd bet at some level, the arm/cartridge would act like a microphone and a signal could be recorded. Of course, ANY acoustical airborne vibration picked up by this method would mean when a record is playing with the speakers in the same room, a bit of smearing is happening to the resolution of the music.
Thats a great idea but will have to leave that test to someone else. Thanks for watching and commenting sir.
Pretty groovy demonstration. I'm still a little bitter that my sister's husband took the SL-1200MK2 my dad had from a failed restaurant. Yet, I am grateful I have a pair of SL-1200MK4s as well as some other decent skratch deejay friendly Reloop RP-8000MK2s and such. I don't have the budget for SL-1200G(AE)s but maybe someday! Regardless, Technics are considered a good choice for decades, for good reasons.
Where is the link to the app?
The SL 1500c could be my next player.
I had an Akai turntable from 1980, and had the most horrendous problem with feedback, especially in the bass. I tried EVERYTHING, and nothing solved it except using a different turntable. I wish there were some standard isolation spec so I could know which turntables were vulnerable to vibrations.
Nice setup, nearly scientific - still you do not have really calibrated equipment. However, it shows pretty good the well done dampering of vibrations that Technics takes care of. Although I flirt with audiophilia, I am a fan of the direct drive system - primarily for its excellent reliability and durability. I prefer spending money on direct drive, than on belt drive turntables.
great video ! I am still at the fence on buying either a 1200GR2 or a Rega6. Looking forward on your GR2 review. BTW, what app did you use for the vibration charts? tx
Should have the GR2 video done in the next 30 days. If only I could get a hold of one :-)
Fun video. It’s like Mr. Wizard.
haha thats me :-). Thanks for commenting Mark.
Nice demonstration. It would good if you had a diagram showing the construction of the 1200G plinth, showing the 4 different layers. 👍👍
My review of the SL1200G and factory tour linked above show more of the internals if anyone wants to have a deeper dive.
I saw a Technics SL 1200 and sl1100 in Asia, circa 1974. 50 year ago.
13:30 They just have a different approach. It's not true that they don't put effort into minimizing the effect of external noise and vibration. Rega's approach is on the opposite side to the one Technics use: they're objective is to minimize mass and maximize rigidity. These two properties often oppose each other in the case of turntables. Rega doesn't care if the whole table is vibrating. What they care about is whether the stylus of the cartridge is vibrating with respect to the record surface when there is an external source of vibration. The relative motion of the stylus with respect to the record surface is what you hear and Rega wants that to be solely caused by what's on the record's grooves. A lot of effort goes into ensuring this is the case.
I agree - I have Rega's book "A Vibration Measuring Machine" which says it all
Hi Just have question for you about this turntable SL1500C. How is the power button of this table ?? Just got the same table and the power button is missing presses now and then. The power button on this table does not feel very reliable ?? I can somehow understand it has some delay because it is logic controlled (does not respond to very fast presses) but it feels kinda irrational, all the other buttons work and respond like a charm. Someone else was talking about this same thing in reddit. Does it need a somekind of power down and up cycle ???
There's a reason virtually every club around the world used Technics for DJing, they were built like tanks & good with vibration. I loved my mk2 1210s they gave me so much enjoyment in my late teens & twenties, if I buy another one it will be for just listening this time around rather than mixing on them.
Tanks indeed. Never mind the 43 years of continuous evolution.
...and the speed control. Nothing more annoying than a deck who's speed keeps changing.
I've done this test, but I think a much better way is to simply place the stylus on a stationary record and then send the output to spectrum analyzer (even if its a soundcard and software). That's what you are trying to isolate from so it is easiest to read your results directly. You'll be surprised in your house, you won't need a low frequency generator at all, you'll find all kinds of low frequency vibrations already present to obsess over - even without music playing.
Could be interesting to put the 1500 on the left and 1200 on the right to see if the table has a part in it
Tried a few different configurations on the table layout, similar results. Thanks for the tip.
I have one of these turntables from Technics going back to 1975. Still works. What tubes do you use in your Macintosh Mono blocks?
Generic tubes, dont find much of a difference between tube brands.
Could you repeat this vibration test by placing the turntables on an isolation platform, like the Isoacoustic Zazen or Delos. That would be very interesting.
Gee, wish I had more time. Too busy setting up and calibrating all the Technics we are selling :-). I'd like to do a follow-up comparing to a competitors table first.
Excellent effort and illustration. What would happen if you used a Ojas modified technics motor, and when I say modified I mean that Devon mounted a technics 1200 motor in a multi layer a snow bird?plinth. Just as you did with your Thorens td-124 build.
Glad you found value in the video. Not sure, maybe ask Ojas to do the same test :-)
Yep, the unit of measurement of EME/EMF is indeed volts per metre
Super, thanks for letting me know. Never used that unit before. Makes sense that it would be distance related.
I know now why these turntables are popular in Japan. Who wants to listen to music during earthquakes?
hahaha. Good thinking!
One thing to note, you need to test multiple frequencies rather than a single one. Every structure will have eigenmodes, at 20, 30, 50, 60hz, etc you may have a completely different picture and the SL1500 may, in fact, be better at a driven different frequency.
Agreed but this is just to prove how much more isolated the 1200G is.... Nothing is perfect though.
Unfortunately, it doesn't prove that. It shows that at one frequency there is better isolation, it does not demonstrate there is better isolation across the full audio spectrum hence my comment above.
What about the technics sl-1200gr?
Coming soon.
The tone arm on the left tt is closer to the source than on the right.
I tried several positions. Results were all the same.
@@SkyFiAudio
Although more time consuming, ideally you would have tested each turntable in identical positions on your table surface but separately with just one turntable on the table surface at a time.
This would allow for the vibration transducer to be in the same position relative to the turntable's orientation & the base of each tonearm for each turntable during the measurements.
The different weights and type of feet of each TT on the table surface will mass load the table differently on each side, causing another variable when measuring the opposite side TT.
FYI, IINM, the vibration measurement of the PLINTH was actually BETTER on the lower priced 1500C (0.08m/s) as compared to the 1200G (0.12m/s), though you stated the opposite.
However the PLATTER isolation (with the Mat) was much better on the 1200G at 0.02m/s vs. 0.18m/s on the 1500C, indicating MUCH better isolation between the Plinth and Platter on the more expensive 1200G.
But WHY didn't you also measure the platter vibration Without the MAT and also on top of the Tonearm Pivot on the 1500C after doing so on the SL-1200G? You stopped short of doing a full comparative test, or perhaps one or both of those measurements were Better on the 1500C and you chose not to show that?
And I can't say that I didn't cringe and almost spit out my morning tea when I saw your inserted static shot at 3:26 of the completely filthy vinyl record surface from it playing the vinyl record using the $17k cartridge in your previous comparison video! :/ And then yet again, but with the non-rotating static vinyl record in this actual test at 14:50 ! Crikey!
SIDE NOTE:
Regarding the SL-1200 MK x series, when these were used for live DJ gigs they would nearly always remain in the lower half of the twin TT + mixer anvil flight case/road case that is commonly referred to as a DJ Turntable "Coffin", which adds much more mass to the overall setup, and those cases are also internally well-padded for safe transport...both of which significantly improved isolation and immunity to vibration while in use as well.
For my TT setup, I ordered a CNC cut-to-size sheet of 1.5" thick white UHMW polyethylene plate just slightly larger overall than the TT plinth. I'm a woodworker so I used a 1/4"-radious "round-over" bit in my router table to give all of the sharp square edges a nice smooth round-over/curved edge.
With its self-stick adhesive backing, I applied a sheet of the ResoNix Sound Solutions "BARRIER" product to the bottom side of the UHMWPE sheet. The ResoNix Barrier is a moldable sheet noise barrier/de-coupler that replaces typical 1/8" 1lb per sq.ft. MLV (Mass-Loaded Vinyl) with a 1/32" thick 2lb per sq.ft. lead sheet that is encapsulated on both sides with a Decoupling layer of 7mm neoprene sponge rubber closed cell foam. This is then set on a 1.5" thick sheet of dense "memory foam" that is placed on the top shelf of my audio gear stand, which also has isolation feet.
Using a multilayered sandwich of variable-density materials that are also decoupled as as isolation base for the TT greatly reduce any type of resonance or vibration making its way into the feet or plinth of the turntable from the start.
What you can't easily combat is any airborne sound/vibration/pressure energy being directly transmitted into the cartridge, tonearm, plinth, or platter.
What is the iOS vibration app used here? Thanks.
apps.apple.com/app/id817385888
The 1200 series were designed for harsh environments. They were the de facto standard for night clubs, concerts, touring Dj’s etc - sound systems that shake entire buildings…
That exactly makes it a good candidate for finicky audiophiles. Build it for the harshest environment, over deliver at the home.
@@SkyFiAudio I agree! I'll never part with 1200s I bought in the mid-90s - they were used & abused in about every environment and lugged all over the country in road cases. Still look and work flawlessly. They are living out the remainder of their lives with high end cartridges in an audiophile world. (btw if you do ever need more isolation in a pinch, 4 rolls of duct tape and few hundred rubber bands work wonders. iykyk) Great job on the videos and curating gear.
@@StaceBaal I'd use roadie/film set production Gaffer Tape rolls which are larger, denser, and heavier, but with the same core size and width. Great idea though. :)
Wish you had a 1200GR to compare.
Yeah me too. Stand by.
i already tried both turntables but somehow i feel they are not good sounding as their 79 older brothers, i do have technics components since the 70´s and when working as a dj i bought first the SL-1310 from 75 /76 because it had alrady the litle light to see the grooves in darker places and in 79 i bought two sl-1200mkii BUT SOLD THEM IN EARLY 2000´S both in perfect condition fpr 500€, no one would pay more at the time ,but had others more directioned to home use ,like the SP-10 personalised but i did it with better parts technics had available ,also a SL-3310 and also a SL-1200MKI from a radio station i started earlier ,the SL-1310 one sold it to a friend other gave it to my son and also in 79 i ended up buying the SL-1000MKII like the SP but already assembled only bought the best mc cartridge technics had at the time and a pre-amplifier for it with a similar reference, this new ones seem not as good sounding as the old, and because still today i have to travel by road 430 kms to buy a stylus at the time whenm me or my father went to Lisbon,Portugal he or I would buy several b oxes of original stylus for my turntavles and for his, now all are mine and even better than i could afford has my father passed away recentelly
Cant imagine why the old ones would sound better. Regardless 1979 or 2024 they are all great pieces of engineering. Thanks for sharing.
@@SkyFiAudio check the components sold by technics in 79 and in 1980 ,check their building quality and you can do it in any brand ,some passed from quality aluminium to cheaper one or the use of a lot more plastic ,cheap one far from old baquelite, and i agree they all are great pieces of engeniering bbut check the built quality and i think for sure you notice the modern stylus and cartridges weren´t like the ones built in the 70´s, 80´s or mid90´s after i stoped buying turntables, only bought a thorens TD2001 in 96 at the most with Ortofon mc type cartridge at the time a MKII of the first model ,now i don´t remenber the model but was a blue casing stylus, one installed in a few turntable at the time as an example the top end model of fine arts by Grundig ,built by another turntable brand but now i can´t remenber all,now i´m using a clearaudio 7866 my fatherv still had it closed in the box. I´m in the countryside now after a day of work(it starts at 6 in the morning) and only at home i have all info i could check, but i do remenber the model under being a Dual with a Denon DL-11 i think not sure now, but i think i would like to hear from you an expert what do you think of this new wave of expensive but not so good cartridges sold today and when they started to make it like this(having a litle tip and 1/3 of the listening hours for the stylus in use)? as i said from around mid 90´s only recentelly i bought a P10 from Rega, with a hana mc type cartridge who in my opinion was the first Rega to have a good sound by 70´s standarts and i did bought some good turntables till the last thorens , not much as i have most of my turntables bought in the 70´s starting in late 60´s in 2nd hand, like a garrard and a thorens both professional line of the brands known to be a lot used in radio stations as i bought them in pairs to my radio station started in 1970 in FM mono, that i built the transmiter while taking my degree in electronics in the 3rd year of university, only 3 kms radius of good signal, mainly to the city where i grew up having none till i started mine and the biggest region in my country, Portugal
iOS vibration App?
Link to App Store...🙂
It's called Vibration Analysis. apps.apple.com/app/id817385888
Totally random question for you: Did you ever dj or do production long time ago?
No sir. Grew up around family owned night clubs but never DJ'd.
@@SkyFiAudio
My mistake, man you look exactly like someone I knew back in 2000's.
The Fernando I knew helped me make a demo CD, he was super cool dude.
You could tell this guy is a salesman because he does a lot of talking.
What a dumb comment. Would the video be better in silence? He won't reach into your pocket you know?
Just mute the video :-).