This Battery Gives EVs 1000 Miles of Range!
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- Опубліковано 29 жов 2024
- Lithium-ion has long been the king of batteries. But the aluminum-air battery is a very fascinating bit of tech, because it actually has much high energy density... but there's a HUGE catch...
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**Correction: I meant to say 1,600 km or 1,000 miles. Apologies!
I was about to say that
8:05
New Fuzzy Math ! ;)
@@eddieneves1808 I was about to say I was about to say that, but you said I was about to say that
seen so many battery technologies.
I guarantee you, we won't see them ever
Interesting. Non Rechargeable is a downer, of course. Recharging is convenient for end users. But I think practically if a vehicle has two packs, where one is being depleted first. Then, when you’re running on the second pack, you know that you will always replace a fully depleted pack, and can be a bit more flexible.
You need a hybrid setup. Like the Toyota Prius, you would need a rechargible battery (NiMH or Li-Ion for starting and stopping) for regenerative capture, then the Al-Air battery as the main power source. A typical Prius like layout with like for like weight should give about 3Km range (1800 miles). The REAL factor here would be limiting patents and forcing automakers to use standardize battery packs to make swapping stations possible/profitable. We cannot allow a repeat of the the proprietary inkjet market to repeat itself in the battery swap market.
Even two 500 mile batteries instead of one 1,000 mile battery because I want to get my full value out of the battery but I can't wait until 0% to swap it if I only have one because the car won't drive to the swap shop. More than one battery pack is a must.
Oh hey there Cuckoo! Love your OPZ vids :)
Elon wont buy out this tech's patent and terminate it. Just like how his tweet push bitcoin price up ... or NOT
Battery waste would be a huge problem if everyone went to single use batteries. Rechargeable battery waste in the future is going to be a problem when the whole world transitions to electric. Just imagine that amount of waste times by atleast 50
Single use batteries could be quite useful for airplanes/ships as it got high energy density similar to fuel, but fuel can be made by extracting CO2 and Water which are the main waste that comes out of burned fuel and turned back into fuel such as biodiesel so I don’t think single use batteries will be anywhere close to mainstream.
If mentioning Cobalt in batteries you should also mention Cobalt use in petroleum refinement too.
Good call!
And let's not forget how green the mining process is for mining Obama and lithium! Heavy equipment used to mine those metals runs on DIESEL ENGINES not electricity!
@@DrDiff952 Old, tired argument. Ford had horses in his supply chain.
@@bob15479 Not to mention mining companies are switching to electric vehicles themselves as they save on diesel fuel and the issues arising from that.
@@DrDiff952 Obama is no longer your gawd damned President
I like the idea of using the aluminum “battery” as an mileage extender. This way you have flexibility as to when you swap it out for a fresh one.
what do you need a "mileage extender" for with newer cars having 400-500 mi range already ?
Carrying a heavy rechargeable lithium main battery with a light weight auxiliary aluminum extender kind defeats the purpose. Total weight of batteries increases while useable space somewhere in the car gets reduced.
You *believe* that?
Ho hum, there is another one born every second.
It takes massive amounts of electricity to process bauxite ore into aluminum since it's done by electrolysis. That's why the big push for recycling. Melting down and reusing aluminum takes much less energy. So you need a lot of renewable electricity.
if they standardize the size of batteries then any shop could swap them out like jiffy lube oil changes
This would just be the same as putting a lid on innovation.
The work that goes into every aspect of car battery design is arduous and full of ingenuity. But you would need to understand many Engineering and Physics principles to grasp that.
They haven't even sought to standardize something as plain as phone batteries and you're suggesting moving up the complexity chain to the highest order of extremities.
@@user-uu6bi4tn5o But the Aluminum Air battery would have to be swappable. Cars would have to build around a standardized battery pack, limiting the design. Lithium packs can be build as part of the structure of the car and customized for every vehicle.
@@thtiger1 the government cannot dictate industry in this way. Ut has not been done for phones as a results given that innovation dictate requirements.
EV innovation is a hotbed of engineering and techonigical ingenuity which means tweaks to optimise are required, which means flexibility to upgrade cannot be hindered.
@@thtiger1 structural pack's may well move things in this direction I don't know but battery designers worst nightmare is you coming along, limiting their space envelope and giving them unachievable requirements alongside.
You simply cannot place such restrictive dictates on innovation industries.
@@user-uu6bi4tn5o Never suggested they would. Industry itself would do so if it were needed. You don't see different sized nuts and bolts on every single car. they all use the same standardized fasteners. At most you will see special security heads that require a special tool to remove them.
Same goes for other components.
This technology seems like it would be a great fit for electric-powered aviation. At the end of every flight you could just swap out the aluminum battery.
Agree! if this works I can see that airplane will be using this extensively. It is cheaper, lighter and only requires replacement on every trip
Great idea! And all those batteries are landing in the same place! Recycling companies could turn up with a bunch of Tesla Semi's at Atlanta, JFK, LAX, Heathrow, Charles de Gaulle, etc. Could be pretty slick... deliver 5000 batteries, pick up 5000 batteries... repeat :)
And if they could make them modular, like 2070,4680 etc... you build the vehicle to accommodate the range you need.
I think I saw a video some time ago about a prototype electric plane that used these
@@jamespaul2587 it's weird when a use-case seems 'obvious' that wasn't quite that before :)
Now I am as dumb as a box of rocks, so of course the 'obvious' will not be that :)
But as a thought experiment it does start to get interesting!
I wonder how long it takes to re-fuel a 747?
And if it all starts with new smaller routes, like I imagine your prototype electric plane was... well...mix it up with VTOL and DHL delivering/picking up the batteries... :)
@@nadgerz I think it was a small plane that I saw a video about, I'll have to see if I can find it. I still don't understand what actually happens to the aluminum plates after use, I think the video said the aluminum had to be melted and reformed into a new anode, perhaps it has to be purified also?
This is a really interesting concept. I don't see the battery swap as that much of a drawback... It's basically the same thing as having to stop for gas, except it's much less frequent!
You should, these ‘air’ batteries have a life shelf of 35,000 miles until they are replaced.
I think batteries will always be of lithium,
you hear every week that researchers have found a new wonderful battery that is made of different materials,
these are scams,
the team of researchers wants people to "invest"
there it is!
they just want people's money
@@Zo-hc2fn ...Zodiot... that is like saying... I think we will always ride horses! DONK!
@@DormantIdeasNIQ alright, but every week we hear that they discovered a new great battery,
none came to fruition, who is the fool?
I agree. Instead of comparing a lithium-ion electric car to an aluminum-air electric car, the better comparison is internal combustion vs. aluminum-air electric.
To make it a 5-minute swap, A-A batteries need come in standard sized modules, where the number of modules to swap out when it's time to "gas up" depends on the size of the vehicle.
IIRC, in the earliest days of gasoline engine cars, oil companies tried to monopolize by having unique tank nozzle systems, forcing a car owner to only fill up at their oil company owned stations. Today, fuel nozzles are standardized so it doesn't matter what brand of car you drive or station you visit. I think the same needs to happen for A-A battery systems to be accepted.
I can see this possibly working on 18 wheelers like I drive . I've been a Hydrogen supporter because of the charging and range issues that just won't work for a coast to coast driver like me . There are times I drive 1000 miles between fuel ups because of deep mountain and rural deliveries . A 600 mile range ( in optimal conditions ) could just never work . Hydrogen solves that issue but a 1500 mile battery range with 2000 plus miles optimal condition range would actually be feasible . It currently takes about 15 minutes to fuel a truck . If the pack could be changed in 15 to 30 minutes that could work since between fueling and going I to get coffee , food , use restroom and so on usually takes 20 to 30 minutes , it's not a major inconvenience and this also solves the not only charging issue but also Hydrogen storage issue at truck stops ( though Hydrogen could very easily be made at truck stops and in many places even made using mainly solar , wind or thermal . Thermal would be widest use because of a heat transfer process using the huge black top parking lots by taking heat absorbed in ground to heat water to create electric as well as use that technology to create Hydrogen at airports for Hydrogen planes . Like I said I'm a big supporter of Hydrogen and found ways to produce Hydrogen with almost zero use of electric infrastructure and since water could be used instead of natural gas its super clean.
I still like Hydrogen but this is first time I've heard any kind of all electric application that could at least possibly work on OTR cmvs and it also works for RVs and off road trucks and jeeps as well . 🤔
Yes. .Blessings & Thanks.
I have a 2,000 mile range with my freightliner and 280 gallon fuel tanks. I'd love to put solar panels on top of my cab and sleeper and put batteriesI have a $2,000 mile range with my freightliner and 280 gallon fuel tanks. I'd love to put solar panels on top of my cab and sleeper and put batteries in place of my fuel tanks. With a generator or even with an apu, a good battery pack and solar regeneration could give unlimited range with the most efficient use during sunny daytime. I'm looking for the best drive motor or motors to use in this application. Since my engine weighs over 6,000 lbs, I could put 6,000 lbs of battery under the hood, and another 1,000 on one side where I have a 140 gallon tank and keep 140 gallon fuel capacity for the apu/generator. If I could find a lighter battery (or storage unit) I could get even further ahead in this situation.
Wonderful video. I wonder if the process of swapping an old aluminum battery for a fresh one is easy enough for the car owner to perform at home. And, as Jenell Bakley mentioned in her comment, swapping a battery every 2-3 months is preferable to stopping at a charging station every couple of days...
Model S officially 402 miles range with Plaid Plus set to deliver around 520 miles in 2022! Great video about Aluminum Air.
Whenever independent tests of tesla acceleration and range are done the cars don't quite live upto the tesla hype
@@allensaunders449 agreed what ever happened to EPA rating city and hi way miles separately.
@@allensaunders449 might you have some links to said testers?
Yep. And Lucid is right up there with them along with a couple of Chinese manufacturers.
JUST remember not too long ago lithium ion batteries were not so well known or excepted ,so all things being equal aluminium air batteries seem to fit the void in ev vehicles
The solution, a hybrid system. A permanent 30kw lithium battery that would give a 100 mile range that would cover 90% of normal use and a battery swap module, a bit like the gogoro electric motorcycle, that can be swapped for another 200, or a bigger battery swap system that would give another 1000 mile.
Was thinking the same thing back when battery swap stations were being discussed a few years ago. Let me have a 550km+minivan with the option to put a 100kg/600km+ swappable extender AlO2 battery in the “frunk” or underneath via swap stations. Instant cure for range anxiety, but also heaven for those who live in apartments and can’t readily charge overnight/at work. Also really good for the car rental fleets as well while charging infrastructure is being built out.
Even can be used in an emergency extended blackout situation… once the closed circuit supply/recycling chain is running, there’s really no downsides
I never thought about single use batteries in terms of EVs but this has a lot of potential. Battery recycling is already done incredibly well with lead acid batteries. I don't see why we couldn't do the same with aluminum air batteries.
Nothing wrong with mumbo-jumbo batteries.
I'm imagining this: A service station similar to a gas station. Drivers enter, release the spent aluminum air battery from some kind of catch on the bottom on the car. You then drop that into a "used battery"slot of some kind. Then you pay some fee to grab yourself a new battery pack. Pop it in the slot, and you're on your way. From the service station's point of view, they would collect all the spent batteries and send them off to recycling centers while keeping enough stock of new ones. They could also provide clean water if that would be a limitation as mentioned in this video. Of course, some sort of legislation would be required to ensure all vehicles are built with the same compatibility, so the battery packs would be universal.
Something like a srive through car wash where it pulls you along the stages. No need for cash as can all be done robotically charged via reg plate
Under the system we have Money is God, so it won’t happen by killing the Golden Goose. Anything that make life easier is targeted for profit, cost more than gas Petrol.
When we start talking about 500 and 1000 mile ranges, what i really want to know is what battery % or miles will it cost to run the AC overnight parked (10pm to 6a) to get the inside down to 70F from 80F outside?
Thanks for taking this subject on. I think the best use case may be for electric airplanes. I remember seeing a promo for a system in which rolls of fresh aluminum were inserted by the purchaser into a receptacle in the car that fed it into the Al-O2 batt and to a take up roll of Al hydroxide that was dropped off. As I remember the range per roll wasn't that great.
I hadn't heard about other battery options until this video. I'm thankful you shared more info, I am interested in learning more about aluminum-air batteries. Curious to see how far this technology will come in future years.
When you discuss the difference between gas and electric, you should talk about the overall useable available power. That two gallons of gas will only go 30-60 miles, where the electric car would 100-400.
As Aluminum mixture chemically reacts,
it has qualities of regular fuel.
What is full list of initial resources;
End resources/waste;
Reusability
Does the video, answer these questions ?
10min mark
!! Hope video improves !!
Starting to sound more like gasoline,
vs electric !
The resulting sludge, could be a great waste. Similar to emisions from gasoline !
@@dirktween244 The video does address this, yes.
30-60 miles for TWO gallons??? What are you driving, a supercar at breakneck speeds? BS. ONE gallon should get you at least 60 miles in a modern average family saloon.
@@saiello2061 3.8 litres / 100 km? No family sedan gets that level of fuel economy. 8 l/100 km, I can accept as common.
My EV has a range of about 230 miles and this is more than enough for 95% of my usage using only my home charger. If I could plug in one of these batteries as a range extender 2 or 3 times a year when I wanted to go on a road trip I would never need to use a rapid charger. It would fit in the front boot and/or in the space under the boot floor but only when needed. No more range anxiety!
Well, I for one do agree that we should continue researching this type of power pack for autos and other applications. The beauty of this forging ahead with research is that there is a wide open secondary market for this type of power. Today we use these little AA, AAA, C, D, batteries that provide small amounts of power for a short period of time, then we pitch them or recycle them. The concept of how the Aluminum power pack is not much different from what we are accustom to now.
It's worth looking into. The downer is the energy used for the production of aluminium and the problems with the depleted aluminium plates. Solve that and it's a starter!
Queensland University has developed an aluminium-graphene battery which has a high density and a recharge time of 5 mins aimed at mobile phone batteries. They are also working on larger sizes
unless the graphene can be as easily recycled as aluminum then it'll work doubt it though
Let me know what Stock symbol. Thanks
@@christophercardono6274 don't think there is one yet
@@christophercardono6274 (GMG) on TSX Venture Exchange in Canada
@@pavellelyukh5272 Thank you
I like how you suggested the battery replacement with Aluminum air batteries.
Set up the battery packs inside of the frame of a car so that they can be disconnected, dropped, and the new ones put in, charged and ready to go by an automated system. Instead of waiting on a charge, you just swap batteries at these automated stations and the used batteries designed to make the aluminum easy to slide out and in for quick replace.
Yeah like a computer UPS battery pack. Just make sure the batteries are recyclable. If you cannot recharge them.
@@ronb6182 While recycling the batteries would require a little more carbon foot print, the atoms are all there to be rebuilt. The initial build would be a bit more resource intensive, but over all a system like this could actually work great.
@@lyrapsi it's not so much about carbon imprint but recycle to keep aluminum out of the land fills. I'm not buying this so called carbon this or carbon that. Yes electric can be clean energy but I would not think electric is environment friendly. Too many unknowns about solar panels and the effect it will have on our weather. And wind energy failed Texas this past Winter. And how many birds are killed every day from windmills. There is no such thing as free electricity.
It's really great though, to see all the engineering and design working on moving forward
Charging your car at home, is more convenient, this is how the majority of charging is done. This technology could be ideal as a removable range extender for the rare trips that will be more than ~250 miles.
There are also areas without a sufficient electric grid to power big EVs. Developing nations etc
@@TwoBitDaVinci So why not build a bunch of said aluminum air batteries mostly for export into said developing nations? Mostly for export, but also for use as range extenders for fitting into conventional EVs.
Agree it cost me less than $2.00 per day in my sustainable electric use from home. vs old 4 tanks of Gas per month, I spend less than $50 now with Electric vs old $240 per month in Gas.
@@TwoBitDaVinci Its cheaper and simpler to build solar/wind charging stations or home installations than Al recycling facilities.
0:40 - Technically, Al-air battery _is_ a battery, but a _primary_ battery, like, say, good old Leclanché cell (zinc-carbon), and _unlike_ equally good old lead battery. Not all batteries are accumulators, that is, rechargeable.
OK, I guess you can call it "fuel cell", too - the line is a little blurry.
Description is starting to look more & more as a fuel cell.
Initial resources in;
Reactions with O2;
Produces power & waste material
it is absolutely a fuel cell. Aluminum air fuel cell. An interesting idea for energy transfer. But, not even rechargeable.
@@AlexFoster2291 Fuel cell as opposed to primary (non-rechargeable) battery because it uses atmospheric oxygen? OK, I guess that could be an useful distinction, but zinc-air batteries (used in, say, hearing aids) are called batteries, although they work on the sam principle. (Wikipedia article indicates that they are called fuel cells if the zinc electrode can be mechanically "recharged", that is, replaced.)
They called this aluminum fuel cells 30 years ago when this wacky idea got canceled first time because of costs . Still way to expensive to be practical.
Very very interesting - let’s explore all options and keep tweaking for perpetual improvements - eventually we will figure it out
I think batteries will always be of lithium,
you hear every week that researchers have found a wonderful battery that is made of different materials,
these are scams,
the team of researchers wants people to "invest"
there it is!
they just want people's money
Although it is true that Lion batteries contain flammable ingredients, my understanding is that most of the battery 'fires' are in fact runaway chemical thermal reactions within the battery, not involving taking oxygen from the air. The energy in a lithium ion battery is stored by putting the lithium ions on one side of a barrier that they can only pass through with the help of electricity going around a circuit. But if you heat it up enough that barrier breaks down and they can get through directly releasing all the energy as heat causing a runaway reaction. this is technically not the same as the ingredients burning.
This is one of the most articulate, smart and balanced presentation I've seen in the emerging tech genre. A real honest standout among so much click-bait nonsense on YT. Subscribed!
He's*Selling* something sunshine; when did you last meet a truthful salesman?
I wondered about that because if the Al.air battery is not rechargeable, the 1000 mile range means a new battery at every 1000 miles. Um. Considering the cost of new battery packs presently, this seems like it might be a big bill. I did like that idea that aluminum is recycleable and plentiful. It is clear to me that we are on the brink of something wonderful in terms of hanging on to our cars we love so much.
While the idea of standardization is appealing, I thought of the big AC/DC argument at the beginning of electricity usage. At the moment, everyone gets an electric bill. Everyone. Wouldn't you like to be the person getting the $ from every household in the country? There will be greed driving the choices. I wonder if the vehicles could be adaptable to different types/sizes of batteries while we make up our minds about which alternative we think is best. (The EU just passed a law requiring that cell phones all have standardized charging cables by a certain year.)
I wrote down "aluminum air batteries" and plan to poke around and hear other points of view on this idea.
I think that batteries which require swappping should be standardized, so that each vehicle can perform a pitstop in the swapping station. Standards may include units of same size, access under the rear trunk (or under the hood) and identical electric plugs. It is important that a swapping robotic arm may operate successfully for all car models, hence the importance of standard units.
Good idea about "standard units" But name me three "standard battery packs" for cell phones, or 3 of the same battery charging plug ins, or 3 of the same starters, generators, fuel pumps, tires, etc, etc. etc for standard cars.
@@hardset-vi3ze That is the second issue with swapping: you cannot swap a battery with one that has different technical specifications without testing it. that is even if the batteries have same dimensions and plugging system. Relying on a standard model will negatively affect competition and development which requires drastic changes. I opt for fuel cells and flow batteries which allow to fill a tank with a liquid that generates electricity.
Aluminium, also known as solid electricity. It uses huge amounts of electricity to reduce aluminium oxide to aluminium.
The energy may be the same as two gallons of petrol, but how much petrol do you need to travel 300 miles? 2 gallons? 10?
@Bohica Johnson
Gallons needed=300÷mpg
Aluminum requires high energy density during its production. Shows great promise. Recycling processes will be critical to its success.
Excellent discovery. There is definitely a place for the aluminum-air battery. Since these batteries are relatively light, could 2 batteries be fitted to a car and the user switches from battery one to battery 2 when the first becomes exhausted?
Definitely. Since, it's only beginning and it's already better in my view than lithium ion batteries if petro/diesel stations can easily transition into swapping stations. With incremental changes if the world supports the technology, it can easily surpass current system in place because of recycling and safety advantage that comes with it. The cost of battery replacement and charging are also depreciated by swapping, basically outsourcing the responsibility of battery or having a subscription instead of purchase.
An Intresting idea is to have a hybrid of the Aluminum and LI batteries. Meaning, Two separate sets ion each car. A small Lithium pack for like 50miles as an emergency pack that is rechargeable with the bulk being the Aluminum and configured for easy swopping. Providing a lower risk of the main battery (Aluminum) running out of going bad making the vehicle a brick.
I could definitely live with 1,000 mile range and a pit stop every two months.
If you drive that little, you could probably just plug a regular EV into your regular home outlet and keep it charged up just fine, no heavy lifting required
I definitely could use a car like that especially because I drive 120 MI going to work and back home everyday
I would need to change every fortnight, and that's just for work driving.
No, it's too much waste with this throw away AL-O2 battery.
And it would not be available in any region far away...
@@jerodoverfield9635 damn
Ricky, thank you for remembering us we in the third world countries. Thank you thank you. May God Bless projects like these. Thank you so much.
Excellent point! Cell phone technology gave all of India access to phones without the old world method of telephone poles and wires. Why not bypass charging stations everywhere in developing nations, and have battery swapping locations instead.
What an amazing informative presentation on the Aluminum Air Battery. Hope you do several more follow ups on this.
If I can get a dollar for every news on new battery breakthrough, I'd be a rich man
@gnorweb The one reason electric motors aren't "better than internal combustion engines in every way"
Yay! An electric car that needs a manufacturer update every 6 months... then is considered obsolete by the manufacturer after 6 years and no longer supported.
This sounds like perfect tech for commercial flight !!! Fast swapping and recycling the waste sounds like easy money.
This might be useful for some commercial applications, but for a private car, having to replace the entire battery and not being able to charge it once is discharge, doesn't sound that appealing
And it needs to be melted down once depleted. Not exactly good for the environment.
I would love to see you do a video on Graphene super capacitors as a power source for EV’s. It could be fully charged in a couple of minutes and is much cheaper and lighter than lithium technology.
Super capacitors could harness lightning as an energy source. They could recharge by bleeding the charge off of clouds before they build enough energy to spark.
But graphene production is very expensive. But some chinese material companies have started producin it
@@ripper5941 It is getting much cheaper as larger production facilities are completed. At scale it will be far less expensive than lithium and FAR better for the environment.
@Allen Loser I was under the impression that Graphene based super capacitors are ⅓ the size and ¼ the weight for the same capacity of traditional large capacitors, so are they still going to be heavier for the same storage capacity? They also can be charged if a fraction of the time of normal batteries, so even if I have to stop twice as often to recharge, I would prefer charging every 150 Miles for 2 minutes, rather than every 300 miles for 45 minutes not to mention hours in line to even get to the charger because of such long charge times. Integrated solar panels, micro wind generators and regenerative braking could all be added as well. I think the environmental costs of lithium are also another factor making other technologies a must for the future.
@Allen Loser yikes, I guess they still have some work to do lol
You're right on point when you say that this tech would be great in countries like India where gas prices are skyrocketing and no infrastructure for ev charging. It's better to go to a dealership and get the battery swapped after maybe 1500 km.
Agreed Swapnil, if it has worked for LPG cylinders (the swapping of standardised cylinders) it can work for battery swaps as well
I know of 3 rechargeable aluminum air batteries but because the same trick works with Zinc the inventors in all three cases went down that path instead. They negate the dendrite problem with polymer electrolytes. Second uses a telescoping cell design and vibration. In the third case its a spool to spool process with a dendrite brush, scraper.
It sounds like it could be a great idea . I feel that a combination of both batteries would be a good idea to explore.
Watches video intro
All of us: So where is this car that gets 150 MPG?
i like the idea of using them to boost the max range of conventional electric cars.
Fuel the battery with an Aluminum particle slurry, instead of consuming Aluminum electrodes. Makes it into a Flow Battery!
If they were 25 lbs each 8 per car to = 200 lbs most people would be able to replace them, but if that doesn’t work I think they should stay in larger machines, or as a 1.5v battery alternative
Instead of an oil change you do a battery change. Also credits for recycling would help offset costs. 2 packs on board to help with 1. Range 2. Swapping them out while other is being used
I could imagine this becoming a thing for trailers where shipping companies could integrate the infrastructure into their operations, not so much for smaller scale applications where most people may greatly prefer having the ability to charge wherever, whenever. It could still be nice as an optional range extender as long as it is zero-maintenance when you don't use it. For grid-scale storage, I'm hoping something more easily scalable like liquid metal or flow batteries will win.
Would there be any way to make the aluminum in small pellets and pump them in a fluid? Eventually they would be used up and replace the fluid at a station. Just like pumping gas.
Cant wait until these problems are solved. Currently, delivering one-time use batteries in the quantities required is impractical, but may not be one day
This is such a well done channel! All of your vids are imformative and polished and highly produced. Keep up the great work!
I live in Cambodia, often you have fuel being sold in liter bottles on the street. I could imagine a similar situation where people could purchase and stock a few batteries. One upside for people who live off grid, this would also provide a useful power source.
Sounds interesting for electric aviation, where weight is an even bigger issue.
What's the chemical process for recycling aluminum hydroxide?
The most common aluminum ore is bauxite, which is an hydroxide form, so a spent Al-air battery would be like starting with a super-pure ore. Most of the "Bayer process" is designed to remove impurities and could be skipped, so calcination (extreme heating) would convert the hydroxide to pure aluminum oxide. From there the "Hall-Héroult process" produces aluminum metal via electrolysis.
perhaps have to solve the corrosive and hazard processes...flying a fire bomb? hmm, will pass, thank you
@@Johnny-dp5mu There are already certified electric aircraft (e.g. the Pipistrel Alpha) on the market, flying with lithium(!) ion batteries, which is a much greater fire hazard. Aluminium chemistry is a lot safer. Take a look at the rechargeable Al-ion battery from Stanford (with graphite cathode and AlCl3 electrolyte): you can cut into them with scissors and nothing burns. Furthermore, dendrite formation and heating are much less of an issue. The main challenge with aluminium is anode corrosion ("passivation layer"), but this affects battery efficiency (not safety!) and it doesn't seem unsolvable either, e.g. by using some of the new non-aquaeous electrolytes / deep eutectic solvents (e.g. aluminium chloride - urea). Safety is actually a big pro! And the cheap and abundant materials!
@Allen Loser Not sure what you're trying to say. I only mentioned the Pipistrel Alpha Electro because another commentator (@Johnny) was expressing safety concerns, so I was just pointing out that electric flight is already a real thing in certified aircraft (which says a lot, considering that aviation authorities like FAA, EASA or CASA/Australia tend to be rather on the paronoid side of safety), not to mention many other electric aircraft that are going through this process as we speak.
I didn't say anything about efficiency. No idea what you're comparing against. Piston engine airplanes? Jets? Electric cars? Whether something is good for the job will largely depend on the mission. The Pipistrel Alpha is quite okay for flight schools (pattern training). Cross-country flying? Ehm.. no. And when you talk about "get(ing) off the ground": then you haven't seen the inefficiency of all those new eVTOLs yet. That's by necessity, because vertical take-off requires a thrust-to-weight ratio >=1.0, whereas fixed-wing concepts are quite happy with something as little as 0.2 (even the huge Airbus A380 has a thrust-to-weight ratio of only 0.227!).
Take-off ALWAYS requires more energy than cruise flight. This is true for ALL propulsion methods and not specific for electric aircraft. BUT: the Pipistrel Alpha even supports recuperation during decent (generator effect through windmilling), much like regenerative breaking in cars. Show me any other (=non-electric) aircraft propulsion method that can do that!
Btw: cruise speed is published as 108 kt (not 85) and there are several test flight videos confirming that.
So again: where were you going with that, i.e. what are you actually trying to say?
@Allen Loser Btw: the potential for increased range and endurance was the very reason for my initial comment. Aluminium can give up three electrons; with lithium it's just one. The specific energy (Wh/kg) could be MUCH higher with aluminium batteries. Ultimately, gravimetric specific energy will dictate how quickly electric aviation will be more successful.
One of the challenges with aluminium is that it (=the anode) tends to corrode quite quickly (=building a "passivation" layer of aluminium oxide). The aluminium air battery by nature is no solution for many charge cycle. Many chemistries are even for single use only ("primary cells"). The better solution with aluminium are probably aluminium ION (not "air") batteries in an oxygen and water-free environment, using non-aqueous electrolytes, such as deep eutectic solvents and ionic liquids (e.g. AlCl3-urea / butyl-methyl-imidazolium-AlCl4). Both Stanford university and an australian company have recently shown promising results. Another cool thing: the material are much cheaper than with lithium chemistry. No fancy rare metals required.
What about a hybrid model, if I am going on a long trip, I can swap one in, or put on on the trunk when I need it, but use a regular battery for day to day driving. AKA, range extender like the gas engine in the volt
That would be the Volt (I have a ‘19, and drive 95% electric).
@@kenhenningsen1 thanks, was close but no Cigar on that one!
6:33 - Land Rover Defender. Range Rover is an entirely different model line.
They'd then make one that is a plaid edition and comes complete with all the mp3's of the irish rovers who was first to introduce plaid even though they didn't invent it, they reinvented it.
Also doesnt know difference between anode and cathode ( or is it just the U.S. influence ?)
@@paulhousden3825 To be fair, I still sometimes have to use a mnemotechnic trick "kovina ka katodi" (" metal towards cathode" in Croatian) to remember which is which.
Another consideration is, energy must be spent keeping the distilled water in the battery from freezing in winter. I wonder how much energy would be spent heating the battery resulting in a reduction in cold weather range.
What I read somewhere was that once your aluminum battery runs down , one can replace the aluminum sheets & add water n you are ready to go , the aluminum residue in the battery can be collected n sold off for recycling no question of battery swap .
Wow Ricky, great report! I'm still hoping for a "This Year" 4680 450 mile Model Y. Yes keep investing!
@@profounddamas he’s clearly done a lot of research on the topic, and he’s compiled it in a very digestible video, which takes massive work. Hence great report.
I too am hoping for a 450+ mile range Model Y but I have been listening to reports that they will likely make the battery packs smaller while adjusting the range minimally to increase profits 😣
@@myfiller269 That's a good point. I own some Tesla shares, but I am glad to see Ford make a big investment in EV to force Tesla to compete on price. It's all coming down to battery factories.
@@myfiller269 Or more likely to reduce costs while increasing range a bit while also making the vehicle weigh less for better performance handling wise. But can also draw the power off the battery at a MUCH higher rate meaning you can use higher horsepower electric motors/controllers without overheating. I believe Tesla is projecting that they will be able to push hundreds of more horsepower out of the same motors they are presently using.
Did my man just say 600km is equal to 1000 miles at 8:10
Or am I hearing things?
yes
I think he flipped his conversion.
I had to stop and run the conversion when I heard that too. Don't think so buddy.
Ricky, please let us know what you really meant...
D'oh!!! yeah he did ... unit conversion fail!
This is a really wonderful insightful video my compliments to the content creator!
In 1996 it was a group of engineers who drive a golfcart 1000 miles + on a single charge. It was done at the Alameda naval base in the Bay Area SF.
After 1000+ miles it was still some power in the battery, but the drivers was exhausted. But there was one problem, to recharge the battery they need to take the battery completely apart, to give it the right chemistry. And the top speed was about 20 mph.
I could see this being used in ships. Typically they service the same ports and same routes making it easy to build the infrastructure to swap cells every few trips. Making the form factor something like a 40ft container would make it so all the equipment at the ports can easily move it.
The same could easily be said for the trucking industry.
And for trains!
I expect rechargeable technologies would win out over time.
Well, they haven't so far. Electric cars ruled the road... 120 years ago. With almost 2-1 ratio. But gasoline and diesel-powered won. I'm all for other tech, but I have to take off the rose colored glasses.
At least we are heading in the right direction toward a PERFECT ELECTIC CAR.
There's no such thing as a perfect electric car, as they run on your local grid power source. For example: nuclear generated electricity, rainforest tree-burning generated electricity, and surprisingly the least offensive option, COAL generated electricity. The electricity used to charge these batteries doesn't just come from some mystery place nobody really sees, it comes from your local electric company, just like the power in your home. Food for thought.
@@GetOuttaTheJohnBoy
Oh stop, your giving the snowflake bad dreams 😄
OK let me add one more.
Definition of Bio-source energy: Cut down trees to burn in a Bio-source Power Plant add chopped up old tires to make wet wood burn hotter. Just don't tell anybody what the fuel source is and you have a snowflake dream come true.
@@paulcoenen7918 I kinda already said that, but good one, anyway.
Hey Carl, despite the bitchy nature of the Leftists who are incapable of thinking for themselves, and thus swallow the narrative they're given, the Chinese will be doing as they always do, developing nothing. They decided long ago it is easier and cheaper to steal needed tech rather than invest in doing research themselves. Who outside of China uses Chinese computer chips? NOBODY! Hopefully the Left will wake up one day and realize we're going to be using petroleum products, anyway; so why not use our own instead of paying Russian market price for oil? Name-calling seems to make the Left feel better about themselves, and their Trailer Parks.
@@GetOuttaTheJohnBoyI am seeing it as trailer park leftists are the muscle....it is the limousine leftists that are the concern. Power . Over . You .
Regardless...your on point. Great post.
Is an entire new battery gonna cost the same as the same miles of charge on li-ion? I don't think it will ever be close to the same cost.
True, it won't cost the same.... it will cost LESS once full production efficiencies are achieved. They worked hard on the Producability of the 4680!
They tried to market this about 30 years ago and it failed because aluminum is way to expensive to be used in this manner.
@@erickessler6094 No, it will always cost more. It takes more electricity to make the aluminum than would be required to charge a Li-ion battery for the same range. So the electricity cost alone makes the Al-air battery more expensive. When you add on the cost of assembling, transporting, and installing the Al-air battery, it costs way more.
I think batteries will always be of lithium,
you hear every week that researchers have found a wonderful battery that is made of different materials,
these are scams,
the team of researchers wants people to "invest"
there it is!
they just want people's money
@@Zo-hc2fn "Prototypes are easy [mass] production is hard"
Elon Musk
Researchers have been able to make a reversible iron air battery, now if that can be applied to aluminium air battery we'd be in business, but the density would drop considerably because i'm pretty sure it has to be a sealed system for the reversable iron air battery to work.
Great insights! Iron air is coming soon from us
You nailed it toward the end. The world needs to agree on a standard battery architecture so swapping stations can become ubiquitous. It is easy to imagine that this process could be completely automated, as a consumer could simply pull into a stall, do a swap, and be back on the road with a fresh battery in 5min, without getting out of their car.
"Standard Batteries like like saying standard tires, cell phone chargers, standard anything!! Don't get ur hopes up too high, it's not the way OEM's think or make money for themselves and stockholders.
@@hardset-vi3ze Agreed. And yet, we managed to evolve into system where all gasoline refueling stations and onboard storage tanks operate essentially the same.
@@reggiehall7612 one very small example unfortunately! As China continues to take over our lives and souls!
One of the biggest complaints I hear about switching to electronic is how difficult it would be to go on a long road trip. Having an aluminum air battery as a backup battery could solve this. I can imagine a system similar to the propane tank exchange that exists today to swap out the AL battery when needed, but the Li battery for day-to-day.
Exactly, people Think IT is a question of either, but don't realise this is an ideal Range extender. You keep a smaller Li-ion battery for most of your diving and only Mount the Al-air battery when you need the range.
They tried market this about 30 years ago. Aluminum fuel cells have existed for a long time, they are simply just to expensive to use and buy because aluminum is expencive....
Yes.....the perfect “hybrid”. AL back up when Li battery low or when charging is unavailable - i.e. remote areas or in a blackout
remember the more complex the system the more that can and will go wrong, and be more costly, eventually fail to be viable...most engineering and research will continue until a combination works
8:10, 600km is nearly a thousand miles ??
Interesting video anyway. TY
Ok I guess you meant 600 miles is nearly 1 thousand km
@@murphyxd5795 I guess the same...
This is the comment I was looking for…
Imagine a new kind of all-electric hybrid as was talked about briefly in this video.
You would have a much smaller, lighter, and cheaper lithium ion battery with, say, only 100km of range (more than 90% of people actually use on a daily basis here in the U.S., despite ridiculous range anxiety) AND, let's say, a 1,000km aluminum air backup battery that would completely eliminate range anxiety and allow for longer road trips. You would charge the LION battery frequently (nightly) and only tap into the backup battery as and when needed.
Then, once or twice a year (at most) you would take your car in for a quick 15min backup battery swap.
Lower weight. Lower cost, better performance from smaller electric motors (due to the weight savings)... Could be a huge win.
...of course, a very similar concept could work with hydrogen fuel cells, with no need for a swap, just a top-up.
I can't approve this enough!
1:08 "Better batteries are the key" 1000% agree battery tech is the only reason I haven't purchased an EV yet Im not going to pay over 40 grand for a car that cant get very far on a charge and the battery deteriorates over time lessening the range even more.
Speaking of hydrogen, have you ever considered looking at the work of Denny Kline, Daniel Dingel or Stanley Meyer. They all had different versions of on-board electrolysis to run internal combustion engines and they were all SILENCED.
Also silenced was inventor Troy Reed for his magnetic motors and new battery design technology. He did some AMAZING work!
This is cool, however I have to say that the whole range issue is largely in our minds. My Model 3 has a 322 mi range and it's plenty (more than enough for day to day, and perfectly reasonable for long trips).
Yeah I agree I think it’s fine for most.
MORE range is better. I want a model 3 with 8 billion miles of range
John Cahill On my longest commute, it was 1.5 hours one way. That was about 80 miles with traffic. I think you are spot on.
More range is good, but if the smaller battery could charge at a sustained 350 Kw, I'd take a shorter range al-ion battery and blisteringly fast charge time over just straight range. Lots of 350 Kw chargers in my area now.
While this might be enough for you but those who travel long distances on the weekend (New York to N/S Carolina or even all the way to Florida) 322 mi range is nowhere near enough. In order to move away from ICE the current iteration has to blow it away so there is no looking back. I'm glad they are able to reach for 4x-5x the range of ICE so there is no question no reason to stick with ICE.
I'm curious about how much more energy is required to recycle aluminum-air batteries compared to charging an electric battery or producing/consuming hydrogen.
This sort of info was hard to find. We need large scale plants where it happens to drive down cost. Also a standardized pack would help
@@TwoBitDaVinci yes but there might be a lower bound, that is as much as we want to drive down the energy we can reduce it up to x energy per kg of aluminum regardless of the procedure.
I could see this being a very compelling option for semis. Higher energy density is required for towing capabilities. Li-Ion efficiency goes *way* down when towing heavy loads. Also, trucking companies could build out the infrastructure to do the needed battery swaps. I could also see Hybrid Li-Ion and Aluminum-Air becoming very popular in the consumer space. This way, even if your car needs a Battery swap it could still keep moving under Li-Ion power in the meantime. Perhaps Li-Ion is your daily driver energy source for shorter trips (work, shopping, etc) and you only engage the Aluminum-Air battery for longer trips. This also softens the blow of potential replacement costs for the battery swap as your Aluminum Air battery wouldn't always be needed. All these ideas could happen soon and still allow companies to research future range and density upgrades for the future. If we're really lucky and Li-Ion or Aluminum Air wins out, we might not even need to buy new vehicles to take advantage of upgraded battery technologies.
The concept of using these as a way to eliminate rang anxiety is the best use of these to me. Having the regular rechargeable battery, & have one of these batteries in the frunk for instance with a used mileage meter in the car, or even just on the battery pack itself. So you would only use the aluminum battery pack when needed & then replaced accordingly.
Perhaps even only make these as an onboard added power source to charge the regular EV's battery while driving. Little to no modification would need to be made to an existing EV; & actually, I could see there being a great market for that. Have & use your car as always, if your going on a trip, get one of these packs put it in your frunk to allow on the road charging of your car.
No more range anxiety. :-D
It's great that research into alternative battery tech is happening. This is what the future of EV needs more than anything.
Why bother when petrol engines work so well? -Unless you buy all that global warming religious mumbo jumbo.
@@vhawk1951kl I believe the science. And no one with any integrity and intelligence can deny burning petrol and diesel isn't harmful to the environment. What happens when you pipe the exhaust into your car? You die. The planet is dying just the same.
It would be interesting to know the applicability to aircraft. Aircraft have more professional management around them, so they may be able to use Al-Air batteries sooner.
I will look for an episode on hydrogen. For the longest time, of course, when it was first announced, it seemed very promising. California is a great experiment that hopefully will start spreading. Don't some countries also have a hydrogen infrastructure?
Aluminum is already recycled in major quantities all over the world. Even it’s byproduct the aluminum hydroxide is recycled. Both this environmental factors are a great part of this.
Battery lead is the most recyclable material of all time. It melts at a low temperature and only needs to be recast to build a new battery.
When I first heard about this my thought as to what made sense was a kind of hybrid with a rechargeable (e.g. LFP) battery and an easily swappable Al-air battery when extended range is required. I believe one solution to the short shelf life of Al-air is to pump electrolyte in and out as required, thereby reducing degradation. For me, a rechargeable 150 mile range would cover most of my regular driving in a week, while even a 300 mile backup would save me from nearly ever having to make a charging stop on a longer trip. It'd be almost the perfect EV!
Really want to know more about the chemistry. What are the energy imputs for recycling? What are the environmental considerations of a leak due to a crash?
What about the re-use limitations/abilities of the membranes? Performance over time?
I loved how you correctly pronounced Zimbabwe 🇿🇼. You have earned a subscriber.
Awesome !!
Timestamp please?
I can envision having to make an emergency 500 mile trip and discovering I had only about 300 miles remaining on my aluminum-air battery. The swapping station is 100 miles in the opposite direction. What do I do? At what point do I swap out the battery to be prepared "just in case" 🤔??
BYD are bringing out EVs with 600 mile range in January. That’s with a standard battery. Imagine what kind of range we’ll have in a couple of years time. Battery swapping seems stupid to me, your hypothetical scenario could very well happen.
@@sandyfordd1843 600 mile NEDC, means approximately 400 miles realistically. But in my opinion we shouldn't have cars longer range than 200 miles and a swappable second 200+ second battery for the times you need to go further. You don't need to carry so much weight. If you have a swappable Aluminum air battery you could have even bigger range, something like 200+400(swappable Aluminum air battery) miles. So yes it makes sense, just let your mind be free and think out of the box ;)
Rod Anderson, this is an ultra pessimistic situation, for the swap solution to be interesting for most of the people should be as common as charging stations, so you should never experience the situation you described.
@@gene8194 , thanks for the reply and your input. I have thought and thought about this for a long time and battery swapping on private road vehicles just makes no sense. Consumers hate the idea. Imagine going for a battery swap and there’s none in stock, or the one you get is damaged. People have had enough bad experiences trying to exchange propane cylinders for heating/barbecues, etc, imagine the issues you can have trying to swap out a huge battery. It just won’t work. EV batteries are quickly becoming more energy dense, lighter, cheaper, more efficient, longer lasting and recyclable at end-of-life. It’s the only way to go. Battery swapping is dead in the water before if even gets going.
@@gene8194 The battery swapping ship left the pier years ago. If, and this is happening, charging times substantially improve, an EV won't need as large of a battery but we're not there yet. Look at the Hyundai Ioniq 5 and Kia EV 6 models for much improved charging times (without killing the battery life).
Another "better" EV technology that doesn't quite cut it.
What would cut it?
your here to****8888****
@@MendicantBias1 fusion cells
@@MendicantBias1 A micro nuke reactor. 15 years plus of driving and the ability to power your neighborhood.
@@jimdiet8534 you can also throw them to your neighbour's house if they steal your lawnmower
Note:None of the solvents used in manufacturing the Li-Ion battery remains after production. The 'fire problem' comes from using a self- combustible electrolyte. If a for whatever reason the cell temperature rises above a safe limit, this material breaks down, releasing heat. Any resulting 'fire' (not really a fire as nothing inside the cell is actually burning in the usual sense of the word) is hard to extinguish. Unless the temperature can be brought below the critical point, the 'fire' continues. It does not require oxygen, and water only works as far as it reduces the temperature.
Safety and ease of recycling is very important for all these new Technologies. There should be some standards in place before individual uses
I want to charge my car home from my solar panels. That is my vision of the future.
You'd find you needed a fairly large solar array to charge an electric car totally from solar. Most EV owners don't live in a property with a large enough roof to support such a large solar array. You may find that at least a percentage of your charge will need to be from the grid.
Wonderful goals but the technology for that isn't yet efficient enough.
After watching this presentation I think that the aluminum battery would be a great alternative to the lithium battery. with the emergence of this battery wouldn't there be a way to convert the harmful airborne discharges into something non-toxic so that it wouldn't pose a problem to the environment? But I do believe that this would be a great option.
But surely the battery pack would continue to erode the Aluminium when the vehicle is parked and overnight unless I've missed something
That's another challenge to overcome.
Spose you could just plug the car into your house and sell the power to the national grid to offset the cost of the recharge cartridge
am a nerd kinda person and am geeking out over this. A solution could be a mandated standardization of the power cell form factor. All vehicles would have a standardized cell receiver designed in such a way that any service station anywhere would have the equipment to remove the old cell and replace it with a fresh cell in maybe 15 minutes. Just as tank trucks now deliver gasoline to gas stations, Large delivery trucks could deliver fresh cells and pick up depleted cells to service stations. This would be more versatile than having electrical infrastructure and wiring for EV charging stations. Power cell stations could be anywhere there is a road.
As an aside, your speaking voice is very easy to listen to, with excellent diction/clarity of speech. Your voice is like an instrument. Hoping you take good care of it. Your demeanor is pleasant and laid-back, eminently listenable and watchable.
my hearing aid uses this battery in micro scale ..theyve been on the shelves for years.... A quick swap setup would be a win win that would compete with gas fired vehicles ... GREAT VIDEO 😊
you made a basic error at around 8 minutes where you said 60o kilometers or 1000 miles..wrong way round..no big deal.
O yes I realized it was inverted
That stopped the video for me to see if anyone else caught that. I'm glad I'm not the only one.
@@SeanHollingsworth Same here, I went "whoa whoa whoa", stopped video and calculated aprox 375 mile range extension. Still a good result. Coupling Li with the aluminum battery should greatly reduce cost and environmental impact.
Yeah, misprint. Should be 1600km and 1000m.
It would be like if we all powered our cellphones using regular AA batteries.
All of my AA batteries have been rechargeable for about 7 years now. I'm just now getting to the point where I should probably replace a few of them.
Yeah, but it would be regular AA batteries that lasted a year before you needed to replace them.
@@valderon3692 Do you know how to dispose of rechargeable batteries correctly? does anyone?
@@valderon3692 That's not a regular AA battery, your batteries are rechargeable...they are special, just like you.
@@LG123ABC if a regular AA battery could power a cell phone for one year...we would be using regular AA batteries...don't you think?
Thanks for your optimism Ricky. Can’t happen fast enough. Oil exploration leases moving forward on all fronts.
Go for it! Make them plug and play. That way you can replace them yourself.
China have a EV company switch battery pack ,just like what u said ! And it also have switching stations in big city too.
Aluminium needs really too much power for extracting it from the Aluminumoxide-Rocks ! So.. it is a fantastic material for us to use.. BUT.. the Energy-Need for processing is really too high!
@Curdin Gees
Unlike the fossil fuels Aluminium is the 3d most abundant element on earth and once extracted it's a renewable and clean energy solution that could be economically viable addition to already existing ones.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Have you forgotten what we are already using aluminum for today