At 7.43... I suggested to you before those tiny boring bars need to be above centre height. I wish you would try it so you could make life easier. The facing with that tool needs to go from the outside to the inside. You were lucky not to make the steel fly out of the Chuck. Can't wait for part 2. You are funny and always enjoyable to watch you with a smile 😁
I actually made above centre boring bar holder for my other Karger lathe. It worked fine but can't say I noticed a whole lot of difference with the boring bar on center. I think there is something else wrong with this lathe, as I always get lots of chatter when using a boring bar. I got a few thing to try, so I hope someday I'll be able to fix the problem.
Man oh man, I've been binge watching all your stuff for the past couple of days.... Entertaining let me tell you. You would make a great neighbour, so if you ever want to move to Canada....:) Cheers buds
Even with a bigger, newer Chinesium machine I battle chatter too. Find myself using high speed steel at times to deal with the lack of rigidity in it at times. One thought about dedicated shop klompen, like was suggested by another viewer - ever thought about a dedicated pair with some sort of sheet metal on the sole, or would that create more hazard than help?
Call me crazy but that does not sound like tool chatter to me. The cut doesn’t show tool chatter either? It sounds like you definitely have something vibrating on the machine but I would be willing to bet it’s not the tool. The tool might be creating some resonance that is setting off the vibration?
Generally speaking a carbide insert is not likely to survive being stalled in a cut. I was making myself an tool post support last week to swap out my compound slide when I don’t need it. The OD was about 4”. I was having all kinds of chatter problems too. Using HSS tools first thing that happened was lots of chatter and I also burnt the point off the tool. I then tried a larger radius on the tool but chatter was still horrible. I kept going slower and slower on the spindle speed and lighter and lighter cuts. I ended up with a a small nose radius to reduce the surface area of the cut. The speed was the second slowest (with the back gear in). My guess was about 100 rpm. So it was all three things. .020” per side depth of cut, small nose radius and slow speed that eliminated the chatter for me. I then cut about 12mm off the diameter no problem. It just took a while :) I know your lathe can’t go that slow without loosing power. When you make a facing cut from the centre outwards out you are increasing the surface area of the cut which improves the surface finish but it will also increase the chances of chatter especially as the surface speed increases. Get hold of some regular high speed steel and grind yourself a turning and facing tool. HSS with high cobalt will last longer but it can be a shit to grind. It should only take 10 minutes to grind this kind of tool and it will last you for years. Get the largest square piece of HSS that will still let you get the point on centre height. Blondi Hacks did a great video recently on grinding a HSS turning and facing tool. Good Luck with step two. Would your Chinese lathe be any better at doing this stuff?
I think the tool pressure will be stronger on the outside (more leverage) So there is a bigger risk at chatter. But you are right the angle of the cutter against the surface will also have played a roll. It took forever, but it got done. Editing the footage actually took even longer. But that is probably because I'm trying new software.
Rolingmetal That’s what is stopping me from making videos. I only get a few hours per week for hobbies and I don’t want to spend half of it editing videos. That doesn’t count the hours I spend looking after my hobby farm so I have nothing to complain about. I’m still enjoying watching your videos mate. Still love the clogs. 🤠
It is a bit of a time waster hopefully one day it will pay off. Wouldn't mind some extra money to fix the roof of the old barn :) But is you not making video, how about a photo of that new tool-post? You can upload it here: photos.app.goo.gl/5CNAKigRSZzpYsPz9
@@Rolingmetal It's not finished yet. I did some more work on an internal feature yesterday. Lots of chatter but better if I kept my tool really sharp. I'll send you some pictures for sure once it is worth looking at. My lathe is ugly as sin but someone once said to me "Paint doesn't cut metal" so I took this advice and have been working on improving it's metal cutting abilities first. I'm going to have to machine the dovetails at some point as they are all worn in the middle a couple of thou. I'll try and make a video of that procedure as that may be interesting to a few people. The square bed ways are also worn. Hand scraping is a skill I don't have (yet).
11:50 You are using that facing tool completely wrong, that's why it chatters. You want to feed from the outside in, in order to have the least amount of the tool in engagement with the workpiece.
@@Rolingmetal you do not use it going back, you feed it in, once you are at the and you back of off the face and than back of to the start and than feed it in again, when you drag it wen you go back the tool cuts in a different way and the chip is bigger and the geometry does not work out that well and it can chatter on such an old lathe like you have, on big lathes it might not be such a big problem but still it is better to not do this
@@Rolingmetal It's all about making as small chip as possible, with same depth of cut. When you feed in 0,1mm and you are going from inside out, you are taking huge chip. Then it's very prone to chatter and the insert gets damaged. With damaged insert, the chatter only gets worse. That's why we use small radius cutters for finishing - they require low cutting force compared to big radius roughing inserts. But those are just my two cents
Hi from norway, :) in this vid, when you get chatter when you cut from the center twards you, the contact area and with of the chip is mutch greater than if you cut the other way, its better to cut twords the center, the cutting area it mush less even with the same cut. Thanks for the videos, i love your ironi
Gday, definitely not a shit show, more like a brilliant show, always enjoys your videos so don’t change a thing, nice surface finish too, can’t complain there mate, take care, Matty
There is definitely room for improvement, Matty But if there wasn't than then fun would be over. For now I'll try to continue. Good lock to you and your UA-cam ambitions :)
14:47 Ik was bang in jouw plaats ! Zo ben ik bijna een vinger kwijtgespeeld : zo’n lange chip bleef achter de drieklauw hangen. 🤨 Ik pak niks meer met blote handen, en ik pak niks meer wanneer mijn machine loopt.
I enjoy seeing your machining evolve. Let the shitshow continue. Couple of suggestions (more like opinions, I don't even have a lathe): At 1:13 there's quite a bit of strobing on video. because the face was alternating between reflecting the ceiling lights, and not at all. Get more studio lights to fix that issue in the future. When you face off the scraptonium, I would have turned the OD as well. That would have guaranteed that the OD and face are perpendicular. When you flip the work-piece around and clamp the OD in the chuck, you are then guaranteed to have a perpendicular face and thus parallel to the first... i think. 11:35 is the other part perhaps more hardened or was it just the failed insert ?
I see what you mean with strobing effect. It is a bit annoying. Must be a reflection from the video light I build. Not sure what I can do about it. The o.d. will be turned at the same time as the chuck register when the workpiece can be mounted to the spindle nose. Thanks for the feedback
It's not entirely surprising that you stalled out the drive belt on the circumference, you have almost as much mechanical advantage as the motor, and I'm guessing you were running the VFD at lower frequency to get reasonable speeds & feeds - unfortunately, that drops torque where you most need it. Still, even though stalling it out is an insert-killer, it's better than ripping the cross slide off its mountings, so there's that. The chatter on boring has to be coming from your tool positioning, mounting, or insert state. My guess would be your mounting block, stick-out looks reasonable and you shouldn't be getting that sort of chatter on a 10mm hole with a bar that size. Material might not be helping either, but it looks to machine OK otherwise. Could be slop in your cross slide as well, the cutting forces are outside the slideways.
I think was running the motor about 40 Hertz, so there would not be a whole lot of torque loss. But You are right the outside of the workpiece is not much smaller than the big pulley on the lathe. So yeah, it's wasn't a huge surprise the belt was slipping a few times. About the chatter. I had the slides apart about a year ago and didn't find anything wrong with it. I actually made a video about that. ua-cam.com/video/KZTA-ctmSLA/v-deo.html I'm not sure what's causing the problem. It's not tool overhang or the speed. I beefed up the bench at some point but adding some weight like I did in this video helped more. Maybe I should make a new bench out of steel and concrete :)
@@Rolingmetal not the woodturning dummy. Its the plate, morse taper and screw that i want to see you redo. Sorry about the wood lathe but it would also be a good vid seeing you fix it. Get on with it, i ll be ded soon, i m 72,
I had to google that, and that means it was good comment :) Did you notice I actually used a blue nano insert in that video! They are the same as the cold coloured WNMG inserts I have, and a lot sharper (better) that the blue nano CCMT inserts I also have.
@@Rolingmetal Yeah, I saw. Made me laugh, that did. Personally, I don't use insert tooling much at all, I have a big boring bar that takes TCMTs and that's it. Teh rest is all HSS and occasionally some brazed tools.
Abom size lathes arent always the best for folks like us. My hendey is a bit smaller I think then his, and mist days I prefer my logan 2557. Cool project
The problem just went away just as sudden as it started. A rather fucked up situation and I have still no idea why. Hang in there, hope it fixes itself in time. Because getting help from Google or UA-cam seems to be shear impossible for small channels.
Since I didn't know your name, I called you "Rollie". But unless you tell me your name I think I will change what I call you to "Chip". Let me know which one you prefer.
that huge chuck is going to fly off and hit your face one day, that small spindle thread is not designed for such huge chucks I am telling you man, you will have to be very careful with it
You actually rewatched that :) Not much was changed since the test edit. But I got another rough edit for you. Encoding is almost done and I will start the upload before going to bed. Talking about bed, it's probably great material to watch when taking a nap :)
At 7.43... I suggested to you before those tiny boring bars need to be above centre height. I wish you would try it so you could make life easier. The facing with that tool needs to go from the outside to the inside. You were lucky not to make the steel fly out of the Chuck. Can't wait for part 2. You are funny and always enjoyable to watch you with a smile 😁
I actually made above centre boring bar holder for my other Karger lathe. It worked fine but can't say I noticed a whole lot of difference with the boring bar on center.
I think there is something else wrong with this lathe, as I always get lots of chatter when using a boring bar. I got a few thing to try, so I hope someday I'll be able to fix the problem.
Why would the steel fly off the chuck by facing from inside to outside??
@@shawnlund at that angle of approach easy for the tool to "pull in" so full length cut.
@@shawnlund also a 3 jaw Chuck. Just watch machine crash and fail to see why they are weak. I will never use one again. They are dangerous.
Man oh man, I've been binge watching all your stuff for the past couple of days.... Entertaining let me tell you.
You would make a great neighbour, so if you ever want to move to Canada....:)
Cheers buds
I agree, Rick!
Looks like you need a dedicated pair of shop clogs!
Thanks
That's not a bad idea.
Another entertaining vid Sir, looking forward to the next one!
The follow up video is in production.
Always enjoy your "shit shows" with your Dutchlish accent and your smooth temper.
Well, thanks for watching the shit show :)
G’day Rolli. That’s a lot of hard work for a small old lathe, keep it up.
Cheers
Peter
This was only a small step into making a backing plate. More to follow :)
Brian from Ma.Great video Thanks Besafe
Even with a bigger, newer Chinesium machine I battle chatter too. Find myself using high speed steel at times to deal with the lack of rigidity in it at times. One thought about dedicated shop klompen, like was suggested by another viewer - ever thought about a dedicated pair with some sort of sheet metal on the sole, or would that create more hazard than help?
Good to see you making chips !
And I will be making some more before I quit the UA-cam :)
Love your videos . Keep them come sir
Next week I hope to have made another shit show episode :)
Rolingmetal . Never a shit show alway entertaining sir .
Nice to see you back buddy 👍👍👍👍
Good to be here :)
Call me crazy but that does not sound like tool chatter to me. The cut doesn’t show tool chatter either? It sounds like you definitely have something vibrating on the machine but I would be willing to bet it’s not the tool. The tool might be creating some resonance that is setting off the vibration?
It is some sort of vibration, but I just can't pin it down.
The show must go on...
The SHIT SHOW must go on... ;-)
I sure will try :)
Great work😉
Hi Try using the tail stock to support the job even if need a plug a big hole
Steve
I guess I could use the tail stock as a safety measure in case the workpiece comes flying out.
Generally speaking a carbide insert is not likely to survive being stalled in a cut.
I was making myself an tool post support last week to swap out my compound slide when I don’t need it.
The OD was about 4”. I was having all kinds of chatter problems too.
Using HSS tools first thing that happened was lots of chatter and I also burnt the point off the tool.
I then tried a larger radius on the tool but chatter was still horrible.
I kept going slower and slower on the spindle speed and lighter and lighter cuts.
I ended up with a a small nose radius to reduce the surface area of the cut.
The speed was the second slowest (with the back gear in). My guess was about 100 rpm.
So it was all three things. .020” per side depth of cut, small nose radius and slow speed that eliminated the chatter for me.
I then cut about 12mm off the diameter no problem. It just took a while :)
I know your lathe can’t go that slow without loosing power.
When you make a facing cut from the centre outwards out you are increasing the surface area of the cut which improves the surface finish but it will also increase the chances of chatter especially as the surface speed increases.
Get hold of some regular high speed steel and grind yourself a turning and facing tool. HSS with high cobalt will last longer but it can be a shit to grind.
It should only take 10 minutes to grind this kind of tool and it will last you for years. Get the largest square piece of HSS that will still let you get the point on centre height. Blondi Hacks did a great video recently on grinding a HSS turning and facing tool.
Good Luck with step two. Would your Chinese lathe be any better at doing this stuff?
I think the tool pressure will be stronger on the outside (more leverage) So there is a bigger risk at chatter. But you are right the angle of the cutter against the surface will also have played a roll. It took forever, but it got done. Editing the footage actually took even longer. But that is probably because I'm trying new software.
Rolingmetal That’s what is stopping me from making videos. I only get a few hours per week for hobbies and I don’t want to spend half of it editing videos.
That doesn’t count the hours I spend looking after my hobby farm so I have nothing to complain about.
I’m still enjoying watching your videos mate. Still love the clogs. 🤠
It is a bit of a time waster hopefully one day it will pay off. Wouldn't mind some extra money to fix the roof of the old barn :) But is you not making video, how about a photo of that new tool-post? You can upload it here: photos.app.goo.gl/5CNAKigRSZzpYsPz9
@@Rolingmetal It's not finished yet. I did some more work on an internal feature yesterday.
Lots of chatter but better if I kept my tool really sharp.
I'll send you some pictures for sure once it is worth looking at.
My lathe is ugly as sin but someone once said to me "Paint doesn't cut metal" so I took this advice and have been working on improving it's metal cutting abilities first. I'm going to have to machine the dovetails at some point as they are all worn in the middle a couple of thou. I'll try and make a video of that procedure as that may be interesting to a few people.
The square bed ways are also worn. Hand scraping is a skill I don't have (yet).
very nice video!
Thanks, I'm trying to step-up my editing game. Who knows maybe that faster computer I bought will pay off :)
11:50 You are using that facing tool completely wrong, that's why it chatters. You want to feed from the outside in, in order to have the least amount of the tool in engagement with the workpiece.
I don't see a significantly different way to use it.
@@Rolingmetal you do not use it going back, you feed it in, once you are at the and you back of off the face and than back of to the start and than feed it in again, when you drag it wen you go back the tool cuts in a different way and the chip is bigger and the geometry does not work out that well and it can chatter on such an old lathe like you have, on big lathes it might not be such a big problem but still it is better to not do this
@@Rolingmetal It's all about making as small chip as possible, with same depth of cut. When you feed in 0,1mm and you are going from inside out, you are taking huge chip. Then it's very prone to chatter and the insert gets damaged. With damaged insert, the chatter only gets worse. That's why we use small radius cutters for finishing - they require low cutting force compared to big radius roughing inserts. But those are just my two cents
Hi from norway, :) in this vid, when you get chatter when you cut from the center twards you, the contact area and with of the chip is mutch greater than if you cut the other way, its better to cut twords the center, the cutting area it mush less even with the same cut. Thanks for the videos, i love your ironi
Thanks for the comment, it gave me some more insight into why the chatter is so extreme with internal boring jobs.
Nice video 5 stars on this one 👌
Just for the commentary. Content was good also .
From Alabama, USA
God bless Stay safe
Thanks man. I've finally bough a better computer and I'm trying to improve my editing :)
Where are you from?
From the corona free northern part of the Netherlands :)
Gday, definitely not a shit show, more like a brilliant show, always enjoys your videos so don’t change a thing, nice surface finish too, can’t complain there mate, take care, Matty
There is definitely room for improvement, Matty But if there wasn't than then fun would be over. For now I'll try to continue. Good lock to you and your UA-cam ambitions :)
Goed idee om de conditie van het snijplaatje te controleren met een microscoop.
Zo'n Andonstar inspectie microscope is een handig ding en de kwaliteit is beter dan ik verwacht had. Ze zijn nog wel een beetje prijzig.
Rolingmetal Bedankt, ondertussen geabonneerd op je kanaal.
14:47 Ik was bang in jouw plaats ! Zo ben ik bijna een vinger kwijtgespeeld : zo’n lange chip bleef achter de drieklauw hangen. 🤨 Ik pak niks meer met blote handen, en ik pak niks meer wanneer mijn machine loopt.
Waarschijnlijk wel zo verstandig. Alhoewel deze dunne chips nogal makkelijk breken.
I thought I recognized your accent then the clogs confirmed it. Great video.
Still the same clog wearing Dutchie amateur wannabee machinist :)
That went well....so far.
It's a good first step but progress is slow.
I enjoy seeing your machining evolve. Let the shitshow continue.
Couple of suggestions (more like opinions, I don't even have a lathe):
At 1:13 there's quite a bit of strobing on video. because the face was alternating between reflecting the ceiling lights, and not at all. Get more studio lights to fix that issue in the future.
When you face off the scraptonium, I would have turned the OD as well. That would have guaranteed that the OD and face are perpendicular. When you flip the work-piece around and clamp the OD in the chuck, you are then guaranteed to have a perpendicular face and thus parallel to the first... i think.
11:35 is the other part perhaps more hardened or was it just the failed insert ?
I see what you mean with strobing effect. It is a bit annoying. Must be a reflection from the video light I build. Not sure what I can do about it.
The o.d. will be turned at the same time as the chuck register when the workpiece can be mounted to the spindle nose. Thanks for the feedback
🤝👍👍👍
It's not entirely surprising that you stalled out the drive belt on the circumference, you have almost as much mechanical advantage as the motor, and I'm guessing you were running the VFD at lower frequency to get reasonable speeds & feeds - unfortunately, that drops torque where you most need it. Still, even though stalling it out is an insert-killer, it's better than ripping the cross slide off its mountings, so there's that.
The chatter on boring has to be coming from your tool positioning, mounting, or insert state. My guess would be your mounting block, stick-out looks reasonable and you shouldn't be getting that sort of chatter on a 10mm hole with a bar that size. Material might not be helping either, but it looks to machine OK otherwise. Could be slop in your cross slide as well, the cutting forces are outside the slideways.
I think was running the motor about 40 Hertz, so there would not be a whole lot of torque loss. But You are right the outside of the workpiece is not much smaller than the big pulley on the lathe. So yeah, it's wasn't a huge surprise the belt was slipping a few times.
About the chatter. I had the slides apart about a year ago and didn't find anything wrong with it. I actually made a video about that. ua-cam.com/video/KZTA-ctmSLA/v-deo.html
I'm not sure what's causing the problem. It's not tool overhang or the speed. I beefed up the bench at some point but adding some weight like I did in this video helped more. Maybe I should make a new bench out of steel and concrete :)
that was ok but what about the cherry bowl mounting plate?
No woodturning for now. I kinda messed up the wood-lathe in my infinite stupidity :(
@@Rolingmetal not the woodturning dummy. Its the plate, morse taper and screw that i want to see you redo. Sorry about the wood lathe but it would also be a good vid seeing you fix it. Get on with it, i ll be ded soon, i m 72,
15:27 No, no, no clearing the chips. It is the height of Modern Dutch machinist-farmer fashion. Though the bicycle may suffer :(
Scraptonium decorated clogs :)
Hey, blue nano's not a scam. It's a con.
I had to google that, and that means it was good comment :)
Did you notice I actually used a blue nano insert in that video!
They are the same as the cold coloured WNMG inserts I have, and a lot sharper (better) that the blue nano CCMT inserts I also have.
@@Rolingmetal Yeah, I saw. Made me laugh, that did. Personally, I don't use insert tooling much at all, I have a big boring bar that takes TCMTs and that's it. Teh rest is all HSS and occasionally some brazed tools.
Abom size lathes arent always the best for folks like us. My hendey is a bit smaller I think then his, and mist days I prefer my logan 2557. Cool project
A big lathe would probably sink though the floor of the old barn :)
Old Karger lathe, Bison chuck - are you from Europe? Uh, and you should trademark scraptonium, its pure genious XD
I'm from the corona free northern part of the Netherlands.
Going in Watching it the third time :D, but nice work and respectable surface finish👍, I am still getting my lathe back to life..
So soon I can expect one of your video.
Hey rol, u know how u lost ur account 4 a while,.
Im having the same problem and im crying over it.
Please answer me and help me, i beg you.
The problem just went away just as sudden as it started. A rather fucked up situation and I have still no idea why. Hang in there, hope it fixes itself in time. Because getting help from Google or UA-cam seems to be shear impossible for small channels.
I hope you never buy a better lathe, your videos would be much less entertaining 😊
A new lathe, that's not going to happen anytime soon. I'm rather fond of my old Karger machines :)
Since I didn't know your name, I called you "Rollie". But unless you tell me your name I think I will change what I call you to "Chip". Let me know which one you prefer.
What's in a name....
Chips and cheddar
I'm more of a cheese and union kind a guy :)
that huge chuck is going to fly off and hit your face one day, that small spindle thread is not designed for such huge chucks I am telling you man, you will have to be very careful with it
Max speed of the lathe is about 800 rpm so there should be time to duck and cover :)
@@Rolingmetal than it should be fine I guess hahaha
do you really wear clogs i thought that was a thing of the past
Yes I do. I guess I'm a bit outdated
Come on, that's a wood pigeon. They're tastier.
Annoying flying rats, that are probably in cahoots with that damn rooster!
if you want to have less chattering, shorten your cutting tools (inside cut) 😉
Yeah, there is something more going on here. But I have not been able to pin point the problem.
I enjoyed the shit show. I hope I did not influence the increase in the use of bad words ;)
Like anyone, also I get influenced by the shit I see and hear :)
:)
You actually rewatched that :) Not much was changed since the test edit.
But I got another rough edit for you. Encoding is almost done and I will start the upload before going to bed. Talking about bed, it's probably great material to watch when taking a nap :)
@@Rolingmetal I'm a glutton for punishment lol.