Most DAW controllers are DOOMED!
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- Опубліковано 15 тра 2024
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INDEX:
00:00 Intro
00:34 The protocol issue
01:39 SSL's solution
02:24 How efficient is a console workflow?
03:02 Which plugins are supported?
04:05 Is it the best?
04:25 However...
05:41 Am I going to keep them?
06:45 Support me! - Навчання та стиль
Basically need the same to happen as what happened with MIDI. All of the major players got together and agreed a route forward. Basically what needs to happen again
Sadly, MIDI failed to make anyone who was designing it happy. There is a whole drama filled story regarding that. We ended up with what we needed at the time, but it was not what the creators wanted, too many compromises, too many incompatibilities, too much inconsistency.
We've got OSC. While it wasn't pretty, once it's done I've loved using a touchscreen as an OSC surface and controlling Reaper over OSC. Getting it working absolutely sucked though. Most DAWs support OSC, unless you build your own from an Arduino you've got barely any choices for OSC hardware controllers aside form a touch-screen. Reaper / Ableton / Logic / ProTools all have OSC. IIRC FLStudio maybe still doesn't.
@@jonathansandusky7446 At the time you wrote your comment I believe you were correct. There is however an OSC control surface that has just been announced (Asparion D700). Hopefully it will lead to a shift to OSC - if indeed (I am not knowledgeable enough to know) OSC is a suitable standard for the future.
@@philipbenjamin4720 That's pretty neat, a bit niche in that it's basically a DAW controller only and not going to be great for general CC-like uses, but maybe they'll add more general control modules at some point. Worth keeping an eye on.
It's been 20 years and all DAWs still can't even implement the MCU protocol properly, so I wouldn't hold out on that!
Sorry to say something different but with Cubase it's very easy to integrate a controller.
yep, the old steinberg controllers work amazing.
@@fetusbelt6851 the midi remote feature in cubase gives you complete control to design your workflow in an easy to understand and accessible manner, if you haven't already watch a few videos on it, it's incredible
Yeah, however, auto banking does not work in cubase.
Hey did they ever fix that ancient and horrific touch automation behavior in Cubase, or do you still have to draw ✍️ dots to make the fader return to its original position?
@@richiefamus8778 They fixed it with 'Value Mode' in the Remote Mapping Assistant
I use a UF-8 in my analog workflow - it controls WesAudio ngLeveler automation interfaces via MCU, which lets me use the UF-8 as an analog fader surface (with recall!). It's great for riding mics and setting levels to tape when tracking, and even better when mixing (I have a few summing mixers of various flavors I use).
Did you try Softube Console 1 and Console 1 Fader? They also have SSL soft emulation with a couple color circuits built in. I have the Console 1 fader but I only use it as a monitor control over my UA Apollo Console so I don't really use it for mixing. Just curious if you tried these vs the UC1 setup.
I have both and use them with Cubase. It’s been fantastic to mix with. Cubase does allow comprehensive mapping and I use 3 layers. Cubase for layer one , ssl 360 for layer 2 and the 3rd layer is set to ableton but then I map it as it’s on own separate controller in Cubase .
Sticking with the console 1/fader combo. Not only does it come preloaded with an officially licensed SSL 4000, but it largely addresses most of the concerns with daw integration and plug in options. Being able to make custom channel strips for various tasks is totally worth the price of admission and reduces the need for more plug ins/hardware.
And the support is great, the options and features keep expanding, and it's been completely trouble free in the many years I've owned it. Zero regrets.
The best thing about the Console 1 is you don't have to mix using an SSL channel strip! Their BCA Neve strip is truly fantastic, combine the Console 1 with a Faderport 16 and you have a great little faux desk not tied to being SSL. I'm not personally very keen on SSL desk EQ. Plus as already said you can control UAD plugins too.
I could live with that setup. The “Pre DAW” era was limited to what you had to work with in your studio. And the best sounding records were made. I think the endless choices of plugins are a distraction. I would happily settle for an SSL in a box.
If you learn your art flawlessly, you create art by any means necessary. Distraction comes only if you are uneducated.
@@AwarenessDJ Are you not aware?
@@AwarenessDJ Art is claimed by those who are not Artists, Artists don't claim Art, I think you mean craft.
I’ve had really great experiences working with Avid EUCON control surfaces like the S3 and S6! Especially if you’re working in Pro Tools. They can be really great for mixing, especially if you’re working with big track counts like film sessions, and mixing in 5.1, 7.1, atmos, etc! Loved the video!
I always appreciate your reviews. You have voiced my biggest problem with computer based audio as an old analog guy. Analog communicates with simple audio cables that don't need driver updates. That's why I never let go of a bunch of it.
I'm a kind of old analog guy who fully embraced digital in 2014 after a few years of a hybrid, on the fence, should I or shouldn't I setup that was a pain. By 2017/2018, the pros of digital outweighed the cons by a country mile. Re: drivers and their headaches, I found a very simple solution: 1.) switch to Mac, and 2.) don't upgrade unless you have to. Stay at least two versions behind the current release. In almost every case, there's nothing earth shattering in OS, DAW or plugin updates or new versions. Let the people who camp out at the Apple Store for the new iPhone be the ones to upgrade right away. They probably could use some discipline anyway. (Just kidding.)
Great review! I got my SSL UC1 and UF8 around February, I absolutely love how fast I can navigate through the tracks in Logic and balance, EQ and compress them without even having to look at my screen. Going in all by ears greatly improves the mix. The faders really feel as smooth as on an analog console and the fact that it's motorised and remembers every setting on a session speeds up the workflow a lot. I agree on the plugins part. Even though it is possible to control third party plugins through the UF8, I'm a lot faster doing this on the screen still. A cool feature is that you can create shortcuts on the controller where you can perform a certain action within your session with the push of a button. All in all for me, someone who mixes entirely inside the box its a keeper!
Excellent video,great channel,too. We use a Behringer Compact w 9 motorized faders in Studio One with instant ease,but it's pure hell setting it up in Samplitude or ACID. Softube is the fave controller
I have the Icon QCon Pro and am indeed mainly stuck with MCU mode. Although customization of mappings is very dependent on the DAW you use (I use Reason, which has some LUA files you can edit) but most of all I just enjoy having quick access to gain, pan, mute, solo etc.
Love the analog needle on the SSL though :D
Console 1 Mixing System with Logic Pro X is just great.
working with 3 UF8 and 1 UC1 and I will never be going back :) they for sure work flawless and it improves every mix I make just because you can use the touch of real faders .
Console 1 works flawlessly in Reaper and Studio One, haven't tested other DAW's. Faderport's integration with Studio 1 is seamless, I even went back to S1 because of it. I can mix 98% mouse free with that combo. Heavily invested in Softube and haven't tried SSL, but it looks great.
Thanks for mentioning it, Faderport and Studio One is really great. But a broadly supported open standard would indeed be the way to go.
Honestly I think the only best of both worlds option anyone is going to be able to get is, your choice of a hardware controller and a touch screen with your DAW to control the VSTs .
Same, love console one. They are an hardware update away from having an amazing solution. They just need some touch screens and some channel OLEDs and I’m sold.
Softube nailed it with the console 1, it's just a shame their fader unit doesn't have displays to show the tracks etc. You really need that display to move away from mouse mixing
Faderport 8 now works amazingly in Reaper, due to the Reasonus software. 😊
I love my softube consol 1 and consol 1 fader combo. works flawless in ableton, logic and luna. you can load different softube chanelstrips switch individual softube or uad eqs, compressors and amps in your chain like you desire. another benefit is that it can control my uad console software too, whats really great to integrate my outboard gear with ease
I super relate to those frustrations, I have a fair amount of live production experience using the Midas m32 which is essentially a daw/controller/plugin setup for live and it's fantastic. Quickly setting up EQ/compression/sends, etc is dead simple, and in a studio world I'd love the option of setting it to "automation record" and getting my volume automation done way faster. I've used a pretty good set up with an allen and heath mixer as a fader controller / interfact and it was great for things like fader mixing and live bus set up (ie the vocalist needs 4000db of gain on their mic but everyone else would like to hear the instruments please) but the whole thing just falls down when it comes to controlling plugins.
Personally, I'd love to see waves and slate get together and agree on a protocal and release some hardware, I feel like they're the 2 biggest players in the space and could realistically move the ball forward on an industry standard.
I think the tascam model 12, 16, 24s are the way to go. I want to see them put out an updated version with a few extra features - inputs on each channel, polarity flips per channel (or at least some) additional groups and either individual channel outs or extra group outs. I think the multi track factor to SD and DAW integration is SUPER cool and gives users a lot of options. I’d gladly pay more for those few extra features though
I have the old tascam us2400…still works great
No. Tascam models still got latency issues. Unless they include DSP in it I'd rather go with RME. Sold my Tascam model 12 and not regretting it a bit.
Love tascam dp24
I use a Model 16 for simple tracking onsite, as a digital recorder, and it’s great. In a mobile recording context. Not a ‘DAW front end’ context. It really wasn’t designed to be a DAW front-end. It was designed to be a mixer you can bring out to record a vocalist or other instrumentalist, a small ensemble, or bring to a live show and record the band for the basic tracks on your next single because the live version always has fantastic energy (and you always set up your mics properly, right??) 😉
I really love this blurring of mobile and studio recording. Super easy to just chuck the recorded tracks onto PT or Logic or whatever and get into a good mix. (I use Console One and Softube channel strips for the mix, personally)
Idk how your DAW is but I CAN fully control parameters with the UF8 for almost any plug-in I have using the rotaries and faders. I think both Ableton & ProTools have that capability.
I do love having this controller. I don't really compare it as being it's signature sound but more so compare it to the workflow on a SSL board. Love it on drums, and use it in parallel all the time. We have come so far , looking forward to the future of plugins. (:
Wow. What an eye-opener. At my current pay grade, I had no idea this was even an issue. This is important. Maybe the big hardware distributors could take a lead on this issue? They have influence. Thanks for the heads-up : )
Will the UC1 follow a mouse-selected track or do you have to turn the selector knob to the desired track every time?
I totally agree with you in the sense of the ecosystem with stuff like this… If I want 500,000 plugin controllers, I am just gonna use outboard gear…. I really like those TC ones, but I am not painting myself into a corner with that….
does SSL controller works well with Reason 12 and M1 ? thanks
I have a Cubase CC121 for sale. It was bought for me for collage. However I never went to music collage. It is still in the box and like new. I am researching how much I should charge for this CC121 what would you offer for it ?
I am going to use your "Before and After" samples as reference when I am mixing drums - THanks!
Thank you for every video that you uploaded! Those are always give me a huge tips for audio engineering!😊
I have a single favor, would you please upload that proper usaage of Acustica audio plugin's Pre button and Input trim??😮
I was lacking that last pinch with this video (setup of UC1 & UF8). And yesterday saw the UF1 announcement. Saw the whole Cubase setup tutorial they made and the explanation what it can do (and what not in the context) and how it differs in some key points from UF8 (whose may change with an update for UF8). And now I'm sold.. new to-buy list entry..
There was an announcement from SSL few days ago that Harrison is now part of Audiotonix Group - I guess it could suggest that we can expect SSL 360 fully integrated on the Mixbus platform. At least I hope so :)
Makes sense to me.
Just what I was thinking as I was watching the video. I like Mixbus, and this would be very cool.
I bought Mixbus on sale in 2015 and forgot about it. A couple of months ago I found the invoice, got the newest version and tried it out. Very nice! I like to be proficient in at least two DAWs at any given time, and it's been Logic and Pro Tools for years. But I'm adding Mixbus to that because I'm really digging it.
I think its hard to beat a mouse and keyboard but as a complement to that my Faderport single works great for me. Whenever I want to close my eyes and use a fader its always right there ready to go. Its also great for the transport controls, mute, solo, etc.
It's more than easy to beat mouse and keyboard with for example Korg Kronos workstation workflow, light years faster and more intuitive than computer invironment. Computers software are a joke for making music that's why quality of production is going down in last 20 years.
I just set up a single fader to control the last used parameter in reaper. Quickly click the thing I want to edit, then move the full size fader that lives next to my mouse. Absolutely love it!
How do you set that up with an MCU or HUI controller?
@@WarrenPostma As long as you're using a fairly popular controller, you should be able to find plenty of info on the cockos forum.
You'll use CSI, and there is likely already a configuration available for your controller.
Originally I used an x-touch one in mcu mode with CSI & Funkybot's scripts with some small modifications.
Thanks for the video. Great points and I can see a place for someone who is mixing a lot of bands that can really benefit from the sound of the console. I still feel that a pure console workflow for me personally is not really helpful as the lack of great third party plugin control makes me avoid a controller in my daily work. EUCON integration in Pro Tools is still all I need and I find it convenient to always have an S1 and a Dock running. The automation integration is second to none, and the screens give a lot of information. This is something I always missed in the Mackie protocol. However it locks me into the Avid world, which I really dislike. I still hope that Pro Tools will one day be saved by a company that really cares.
I use the qcon icon pro g2 for mix control and a uc1 for channel strip control inside reason11 ,flawless!
Setup Guide with Reaper It does work quite well for me.
I decided to set up a separate mixing/mastering station in my studio using SSL equipment. I purchased a UC1, UF8, Fusion, Bus+ and Big Six.
I have been using Reaper for about ten years but am not a power user. I have relied a lot on Kenny Gioia's video tutorials.
My goal was to get all of the SSL pieces working together with Reaper. Unfortunately SSL does not fully support Reaper in setting up the UC1 and UF8. So I had to wade in (over my head) into getting Reaper and the SSL equipment, the Big Six, UC1 and UF8 configured so that they would function together.
SSL's technical support was responsive but they did not have knowledge of Reaper. I could not find any UA-cam videos or other information on how to configure all the this equipment together. So I decided I would offer a few comments on what eventually worked for me.
The SSL User Manuals are very good in explaining the functions of the equipment. The Fusion and Bus+ provide no particular connection or configuration issues. They are easy to set up and operate.
The SSL User manuals and UA-cam videos for the Big Six, UC1 and UF8 explain how to physically connect each piece to a computer (in my case a Windows 11 pc). They also do a good job of explaining how to download the software - 360 plug in mixer, Channel Strip 2, Channel Strip 4k b and Bus Compressor 2. The only difficulties I encountered in this were due to my total inexperience with using iLok software manager. But the process worked fine.
So I suggest that one follow the SSL videos and User Guides. Just one comment. The Channel Strip 2, Channel Strip 4k b and Compressor 2 are VST's and it is best to allow the SSL downloader to put these in the default folder - which is the SteinbergVST Plugins folder. Pay attention to Reaper's warning that VST plugins should not be placed in the Reaper plugin/FX folder along with the standard Reaper plugins.
With regard to the USB connections, I offer the following advice. Use either the USB cables that SSL provides or very high quality cables. Do no use any USB cables longer than 1 ½ meters. Do not use a hub for any connection. Connect the UC1 USB cable from the UC1 to the UF8 “thru” USB input (which is a USB type A input). Run a USB cable from the UF8 USB output (which is a USB type C connector) to your computer. Connect the Big Six USB output to a separate USB connection on your computer.
After all the SSL software is installed, go to Options > Preferences > Audio > Midi Devices. A table will pop up. There will be a table listing twelve SSL V MIDI Ports for Input and under that there is a table listing twelve SSL V MIDI Ports for Output. Under the Mode column of each table, enable all twelve ports. Do this by right clicking each port under Mode column. A window will pop up. Click enable. Do this for all input and outputs. Twelve MIDI Inputs and twelve MIDI Outputs are therefore enabled. I do not know if it is necessary to enable all twelve outputs and inputs but that is what I did and it works for me.
Right click again on the SSL V-MIDI Port 1 line in the input table. The small window will again pop up. Click on “Enable input for control messages.” You do not have to do this (and cannot do it) for the SSL V-MIDI Port 1 line in the output table.
Go to Preferences > Options > Control/OSC/web. Under the blank window, click Add. Another blank window will pop up. There will be a line titled “Control surface mode.” Click on the small down arrow to open up another window with a list of options. Select Mackie Control Universal. (If you are using more than one UF8, I think you also need to select Mackie Control Extender, but since I only have one UF8 I do not know for sure). Click OK at the bottom of the window.
I suggest at this point that you restart your computer.
Then turn off everything - the computer, the Big Six, UF8, UC1, Bus+ and Fusion.
Then I do the following: The order is important.
Turn on the UF8 and UC1.
Turn on your computer.
Start Reaper.
Open the SSL 360.
Check that the Options setting described above are sill there.
Open a new track and ensure that you can find and open the Bus Compressor 2, Channel Strip 2 and Channel Strip 4k b.
Turn on the Big Six.
Ensure that the USB connection light in the upper right of the Big Six is on.
(If you turn on the Big Six before turning on Reaper, the UC8 will not be happy and will pout. It will essentially refuse to talk with you or do anything at all except sit there with a blank stare on its face).
In the SSL 360 software, choose Logic Pro for Layer 1. There is no option to choose Reaper. Reaper is not fully supported in this manner - er, not supported at all. (I have seen that someone chose to use Studio One instead of Logic Pro, and this might work. However, SSL technical support recommends using Logic Pro.
Most of the soft keys in SSL 360 are already programmed with commands that correspond to Logic Pro commands. Some of these work with Reaper and some do not. I chose to reprogram all of the SSL 360 soft keys. It is very easy to do. Moreover, I did not really like most of the commands that were per-programmed anyway. The SSL 360 video and the SSL User Guide for the 360 are very good at showing how to program the soft keys. I found it actually fun.
So, for me everything is happy working together. I find it remarkable that the 360 mixer, UC1, UF8, Channel Strip 2, Channel Strip 4k b and Bus Compressor 2 plugins all correspond to each. When a control is moved in one, it immediately shows in all the others. Pretty cool I think.
I also like that the transport controls in SSL 360 work. I duplicate these controls in the first group of soft keys on the UF8. I have also programmed the soft keys to do such things as save, open new project, metronome, undo and redo, snap and unsnap, etc. I like using these instead of resorting to my mouse. But everyone will have a different approach to all of this.
The outside plugin controls on the UF8 do not work with Reaper but SSL has been very clear about this, and to me it is not a big deal.
if you want to work like its the 90s maybe this is good for your work flow. but combos like Ableton + the push solved this problem many many years ago for me. But I no longer work with bands so that helps haha
I got an UC1 and it's the only controller that speeds up my workflow ... simply because it's one-knob per function and the functions do not change. Had a Console 1, an Avid Artist Mix and an SSL Nucleus before - but I didn't like using them (too complex for my brain). The UC1 is the only controller that I actually love to use.
I truly wish SSL would incorporate this technology into a desk like their Scenaria back in the day! For audio post, having a small footprint wrap around desk with this level of control and Pro Tools would he amazing.
i'm having a similar issue. I have a UC -1 and I like it, but it isn't really working with my Analog Work flow . And like you say, I don't really have the room for it. It's too bad.
I understood excactly what you said. I use ableton for metal, and am invested in push. It has 8 knobs, but every stock plugin is perfect to control with said knobs. Sure sliders would help the volume mixing, Have the standalone tapping into a vx50 preamp, and has a send for the krakens return so i can drive an amp, whilst keeping the drummachine/sequencer/clicktracktool stereo. And i can add 8 more ins and outs with an interface... The standalone demands stock plugins, but one can fix up fx racks that have then 8 knobs assigned to whatever parameter on the fx chain, and those can be conglomerated with max. The actual standalone has a neutered software, that it fs up the workflow not having it plugged to a computer but the point in this is and how i'm understanding you is;
It's all about the session view, can't even arrange full pieces one has to perform chases manually... A common complaint, but as this isn't a standard. Only ableton can make the product at this stage. Where if this'd be open source atleast not even standardized which would be the next step; pure code.
So the question is obvious, do you want in that standard rotary or slider encoders...? how about that 64 pad pad; Standard? So it's open source. But how i use this thingymajig is by having two environments. If i can drive all sound from the standalone, it'll take snippets of recordings into that session view quite nicely; then i can have the mics on the cabs that push drives sent to my recording pc environment. don't need do bloat the audiointerfaces with the send/return cable hell... Like that channelstrip you presented. Has so much useless crap * 5000 or how many of them are side by side on a real console. Because EQ is a remedy, but you can eq by re-placing the mic on the cab, and ofc the sound generating tube amp has eq...
Thank you for that video, any chance you could compare this with the softube console 1 which integrated different console eq models? Thanx 🎉
The one thing I always think of when hearing about standards is: they are like toothbrushes. Everybody has one and nobody wants to use someone else's.
I saw a controller hybrid of some sort called the pro audio mouse on youtube
looks like it's got some sort of auto-compatibility with all the plugins
don't know where to get one though
Thanks and I thought I was too lazy to set them up. It is a pain in the ass! Hopefully Steinberg sees this and decides to standarize control fields in VST4 or so. Like "this is a ratio controller in plugin A, this is a ratio controller in plugin B, lets map it once globally and select which one to control by the plugin that is focused"
You're right about connection to other non-SSL gear. I emailed them about the Big Six and 2+ interface to highlight no or limited ADAT connectivity so I looked to Audient instead. I am tempted to get the controllers though!
I keep looking at controllers, but again my work flow is like yours. I have an analog console plus a side car full of preamps. When I record (reaper) I have a template that routes input 1 to 1 and out to channel 1 on the console, the same for 2, 3 etc, so I monitor the tracks on the DAW in the same Chanel’s of the mixer. This way you can throw up a monitor mix, various headphone mixes etc on the console. Very easy way to work. I use the side car pres and even the console pres via a patchbay system. I have yet to find a controller as easy as this.
@White Sea Studio although the SSL controller and fader are awesome, do you feel that Softube Console 1 and Fader 1 compare favorably as an alternative if one is interested in adding controllers to their set up?
It's the same philosophy in a different form factor...
im just getting my feet wet with gear ... but hence you made the statement that this thing isnt working well with offbrand other stuff i wanted to mention that i recently got a digitally [midi] controlled analogue eq .. so now i plugged it inbetween and it goes like
[digitone, which is my daws audio driver]
[the mentioned eq, its a rane mpe14]
[the analogue heat mk2]
the eq is also linked to the digitone via midi aswell as the tone and the heat linked via usb midi to my daw ...
haven't had time sadly to check if working on the eq through the digitone makes all to much sense ... but the thing is ..
this way i can drag the eq to every mixer track now via overbridge ... i didn't even think of that while setting it up tbh .. 🤯😎
For plugin control, MP MIDI Controller is hard to beat.
Hear hear. I have one and they just work really well! However, concerned that they’ve already improved the design by integrating a better touchscreen. I’m worried I’ll get left behind with my version1!
@@JimmyG773 the updates work on all models. and now it controls native ableton/max devices too
The Faderport series is incredibly deeply integrated into Studio One and plays very nicely with Reaper now, though it isn’t plug and play. For Reaper integration, it’s true that it has felt difficult or cumbersome in the past.
could you help me out how to get the faderport16 to work with reaper? i can't seem to find a easy solution... thanks a lot!
Lotta good points here. I use a X-Touch and, honestly, for a semi-pro user, it works pretty well for not very much money. But it's far, far from perfect.
How well does it intergrate with UAD plugins? Since they became native I feel like my dream set up is actually doable
I tried getting into DAW controllers and had a Behringer X-touch + Xtender, then later on the Presonus Faderport 16 (and also tried an Icon Qcon G2 at a friends studio), but I always found them clumsy and I mostly used my mouse and keyboard anyways. The only one I've found to be positive to my workflow is the Softube Console 1. Since it's a controller for the "channel strip" I use on most of my tracks and busses, and not the DAW itself, it's something I only reach for when I'm actually mixing and not just doing some trivial DAW task like editing or setting up my routing. I always thought that I wanted it the other way around - with a controller for the DAW, while I worked with the mouse and keyboard in the plug-ins - but it's much better working with the mouse and keyboard for most DAW tasks and having a controller for the plug-ins. A great thing about Console 1 is that it the volume, pan, solo and mute are connected to the DAW, so when you pan or solo a track it actually uses the DAW's pan and solo functions. I hope we one day get to see a perfect controller that works with most regular EQ, dynamics and harmonics plug-ins (maybe something that could become a reality with the new CLAP format?).
What DAW do you use? I use logic and had an X-touch for a while, it was seamless. I mean, seamless! All of the channel functions (ie: solo, mute, record) scrubbing, nudging, zoom, scroll wheel and a whole host of other editing tools were already a labelled button, as well as a heap of programmable ones. It did okay at working within third party plugins using the dials at the top of the faders - it obviously had limitations integrating the myriad codes of different plugin developers and I didn’t persist with that. Like, you could walk through proq3 with the dials and buttons but the led screen was small and an shallow viewing angle, and would select like ‘eqband1’ or something like that. It was just quicker to use a mouse for navigating plugs. But to get around a session was insanely quick and easy, with very little learning curve. I let it go because I wanted the bench space but replaced it with the x touch one just for the editing capabilities. I researched a lot before buying it, they all seemed to be tuned to specific daws, and x touch is best paired with logic. The faders worked well enough for balancing and adjustments, pan knobs were great, but created a mess when trying to draw automation with them. It was more the fault of the daw I think, that it would try to keep up frame by frame and use insane cpu to do so. So for me it’s just easier to draw it in and bend the curves with a mouse - also a function easily enabled by programming a free button on the x touch. If you go with one recommended for your daw, I don’t think you’ll go wrong :)
I think the SSL controller looks nice, but the Console 1 is the actually the better solution. The reason is: you can choose in between SSL, API, NEVE, etc. console emulations. You can control Softube and UAD EQs and Compressor right away. Cheers André
Love the Console 1 system!!!
im an ssl fan boy. but returned the ssl controller and kept the console one. just works so easily and the opportunity to have a 9000k with a 4000 sustain and punch is epic. its a game changer for me.
Yeah I love my console 1. I just wish it was compatible with other plugins and none are (Other than UADs DSP (Not native) plugins). But those channel strips are very very good. That "british" strip (which I think is supposed to be a Neve style one. Its got that Neve 73 sound) is great.
Reaper + Realearn allows very deep and customized controller integration. The only limit is the amount of time you want to spend designing and programming workflows but it’s well worth it, a few cheap midi controllers I already had laying around plus relearn have revolutionized my workflow
My favorite combo for REAPER is a Novation Launch Control XL with the extension DrivenByMoss, which has everything superbly configured.
A midifighter twister works with everything. If you always use the same plugins like me, you already have everything mapped and memorized to your muscle memory as well. I wish they made a more low profile one with 32 knobs that's a bit wider.
Ever try a Raven? The reason i like it is that there's never any disconnect between the touch and the onscreen parameter; no mapping, you just touch what you want.
We've been working for decades now with all the variety of plug ins... why would I WANT to limit myself to just an SSL emulation EQ? (probably my least favourite anyway).
It seems to be a good alternative to Console 1, which has been the only reasonably priced console like solution option with good DAW integration. I love C1, but it is a shame that they do not open it up to support third party plugins. I get it, they want to sell their strips, but I think they would sell a lot more of the hardware if they opened it up. They added support for a selection of UAD plugins, but then they stopped adding new ones, and the UAD channel strips can't be used. The only option to use it for third party plugins is to use it in MIDI mode, but then you lose the whole console functionality of it. Otherwise I still think it's a great product. But unnecessarily difficult to use with other products.
Console 1 also doesn’t have any way of letting you know which channel the fader you’re using is on without looking at the screen ala little digital scribble strip and that’s what turned me off from C1, I think in that department ICON takes the cake with their controllers and I wish more controllers had per channel rotary encoders for pan pots, the amount that have just one rotary encoder for all channel panning is a bit aggravating for me.
@@jonathankessler9853 Did you mean EuCON (ala Avid controller protocol)? Just checking, b/c I have both the S1 (x2) as well as the Consol 1 (Softube) and that works out well for me.
@@paulvincent6191 I’m not referring to either controller protocol I’m talking about a small detail of there being no way to see the channel you’re on on the C1 itself like how on the person is Faderports got tiny little screens that tell you which channel you’re on, ala a digital scribbled strip. Super minute detail but one that turned me off C1
@@jonathankessler9853 I see and agree, that bothers me too about the Console One
I had this idea 20 years ago; and when I kept asking why no one had it< n one really understood what I was hoping for. Looking back it was because computers weren't fast enough and reached the level of tech where we are now
I think it would help that you keep talking about better protocol standards and why we need them with every coming product release it is worth it. And of course have an extra look on products that invest in the future towards better standards. Maybe it is an idea to talk to other engineers and music content creators to build something bigger to talk to suppliers in the future.
Steinberg Cubase 12 has the new MIDI Remote Integration and it could be the future if other brands adopt it. You can easily map your midi with your hardware controllers and many brands support it for their controllers. You can even map other channel strip to your SSL controller.
Came here to say this. It's rad. I have so many controllers now that all my obsolete stuff works again :)
@@LuQuade I bought a second hand Native Instrument machine and Maschine jam and configured them to my liking to use it with Cubase. I don't even use the software for it.
If only you could sensibly map them to other plugins. For now that's probably via Eucon but I would settle for anything that let me map in a SENSIBLE setup vs just sticking each control at the top of each fader. Technically it works but practically its not usable for anything but the simplest adjustments. Real knobs are nice though. Maybe time to take another look at the MP Midi controller...
Faders are easy but knobs is where the value is... control and listen vs look. Whomever enables this well as a feature is going to do very well. There is no just one plugin ecosystem.
Totally agree. btw MP MIDI now can control native ableton/max devices and plugins with and without a host wrapper. I like how they stay focused on plugins and not trying to do everything like other controllers.
Hmm i suggest the faderport8/16 that way, if your using studio one professional you can control your 1st and 3rd party vst’s from your controller. Hope this helps.
My SSL 8 controls all of my plugins. Are you sure you haven’t just missed the feature??
I have an AKAI APC 40 MKII and connect it to Ableton. It's hands-down the best investment for a tactile and fast work flow experience. I come from a background of analogue mixers and reel to reel tape machines, and this device gives me so many of those benefits.
Yeah, the SSL channel strip controller is great for their own plug-ins but not with anyone else's.
I wish uad would make their own controller for Luna. I got icon m plus and it doesn’t integrate. Works well with Ableton but that’s it
0:40 what's the name of this product?
If you use Ableton and you're on a budget but want faders, the Akai Midimix integrates with it seamlessly. It only costs around 100 bucks and works like an 8 channel mixer. You don't even have to map anything. Just plug it in and it works. When you create a new track or delete one, the controller automatically recognizes it. You get a fader, record arm and mute buttons, a knob for the balance, and two knobs for your sends on 8 channels. All you have to do is click "remote" in the setup tab and you can map the controls to other things, if you want. Seriously awesome for the money, imo. I don't even know how I got along without it for so long.
Have you checked out Rocksolid Audio Micro controllers? Not a total solution but they look very versitile.
How noisy are these faders?
The original Mackie Control Universal 8 was honestly perfect for levelling and automation.
I have the full set ,and I've gone over to in the box ,the quality of the plug ins is some of the best out there ,I only use the buss comp the 4k channel and the standard channel ,even though I have huge amount of plugs this has really done me a big favour its stopped me from going through loads of plugins looking for oneI like ,the 360 software works flawless and is really cool ,ive been told that some other plugs will be ported over soon from SSL ,and ive asked is there going to be access to control my UAD plugs ,if that happens these become the only controlers you'll ever need, the quality is amazing but that's SSL
Are you using reaper?, I can't get the track name to appear on the screen on the UC-1.
With Logic or X it’s easy to install controllers. I use the ICon QCon Pro X system with an SSL UC1 and works wonderfully.
It great that Logic now has better integration for controllers. I just bought a used Icon Pro G2 and it runs great with my Console 1. I may get a UC-1 at some point but I like being able to choose different flavour channel strips. Of course Icon just announced the new generation controllers at NAMM today.
@@blackcreekmusic783 I saw that they introduced the new controllers to replace the q con pro x. Looks great. I love my controllers and the uc1, use them every day and they are rock solid.
Have you tried ReaLearn for Reaper? i find it much easier to use than CSI.
In the last 20 years I had so much controllers. Mackie, Presonus, Avid etc. There is no perfect controller.
But: with mouse and own keycommands and macros I´m wayyy faster in my daw...
finally I sold my SSL UF8 and my SSL UF1.
just like Native Instruments and their NKS platform which works wonders using their smart Keyboards for control of nks compliant plugins Kontakt instruments and even limited control of your DAW. Compared to other midi keyboards I own I do like the nks feature, not a deal breaker or game changer but it tends to be the keyboard I use more than others. That said, I usually control the DAW from the app on my surface pro !!
Digidesign 003 & Pro Tools still work together absolutely perfectly. Just like they did 20 years ago. I use them on a daily basis.
What version of Pro Tools you running? I still have a Digi 003 just sitting around.
Have you tried the raven stuff?
Please tell me what audio interface you’re using with that setup.
RME
Companies really don't care about the end user, they care about making money
Slate Raven and more global controllers (avid s3) are flexible enough to last quite a while and updates and support is going forward. So in IMHO not doomed or obsolete in the near future. That being said all soft and hardware is doomed or not able to keep up without updates to secure compatibility. But then always comes a point when development is not continued or huge steps are made like 32bit to 64bit or other fundamental steps. Hard to do the right thing keeping up will make your oldest software stop working and staying behind won't let you use the latest tools. Of course there are a lot of tools to fix things for some cases but those are not always supported well (due to no commercial nature mostly)
Been using UF-8 and UC-1 for a year in Logic Pro.. it's reasonably good but not too great TBH. The SSL channel strip has to be inserted in plugin slot one to work easily which isn't always ideal. I use Hornet gain-staging plugin and tape sims prior to SSL channel strip. It feels good and looks great I personally still find myself using the mouse most of the time and one or two of the 8 faders for writing automation.
If I ever invest in a channel strip- and fader controller again, it will be this. But what I really wish somebody finally did is a generic channel strip controller that let's me freely combine plugins by SSL, UA, Softube and others. I think Nektar might be working on something like this?
Console one is very close to that.
I control all my plugins with the UF8 faders. I never use a SSL plugin.
I also work with analog gear. The UF8 and my analog gear is all in the same desk.
daw: Cubase 12
SSL just bought Harrison - if they make the Harrison 32C Channel strip plugin work on this hardware I will be a happy person. I like using both the Harrison 32C channel strip and the SSL Channelstrip 2
Behringer X-Touch works flawesly with Reaper + DrivenByMoss extension. You have gone to the pretty-usless option. Plus I do not mess with analog. I preffer to work harder in the digital path to get the same results.
Mackie protocol is not that bad, unfortunately some manufacturers don't use it like it should be, for example lower resolution on the faders, no velocity support on the v-pots, it's of course not perfect but a mackie + another controller is still powerful in my opinion, especially with cubase it's great
@@CraigScottFrost if Steinberg gets the new integration right it could happen,. they work constantly to enhance the new midi integration thing, you only have to be able to script in that language they use
@@CraigScottFrost if i remember correctly there was even a guy doing exactly that, i have to look if i find it
I think probably the best way of doing it is for a DAW company to make a controller that works seamlessly with the DAW and stock plugins.
That is certainly a design challenge. But to me it makes a lot more sense since the DAW and stock plugins are the common denominator between every project you ever touch.
Otherwise, to me, what makes the most sense is simply to have a knob, motorized fader and pan knob.
Whatever plugin parameter you click on with the mouse, I want that knob to control. And whatever track that plugin is on, I want the fader and pan knob to sync with.
That way I can use my existing keyboard and mouse to select the parameter on any plugin and use the same knob and fader on everything.
And I haven’t tried it but I think Presonus makes something that does exactly this. I dojt know how easy it is to configure it though.
I worked for years in standardization. It takes years to make a standard. What should be in it and what shouldn't? Every party (a.o. companies) have their own wishes, requirements and inventions and a new standard means both wanting to apply and push your ideas and at the same time conform to those of others, and when several ideas exist next to each other one will win and the others have to give up. In any case you need to do a lot of work (labor cost, time) to comply. Once agreement is reached there wil be an implementation path, for some years everyone has to be monitored and tested, and the new standaard means for the coming years is will have to stay what it is (you can't demand all parties to rebuild their hard- or software to accommodate a new standard, let alone their customers upgrading). Will the standard be flexible enough to host new developments (are they to be foreseen?), will parties abuse it (computerviruses exist largely because of non-compliance (which we consider great, for things work, despite being sloppily made ('freedom', compare Apple vs MS)), have we forgotten things? But let's not forget the benefits when it works, when it does we easily take it for granted ('plug-and-pay'). The general thinking error is everybody assumes the standards will do what THEY want,, but not all THEYs are and want the same.
I've never used an outboard controller with a DAW. Probably because I don't use my DAW very often. lol But it seems to me that we only need three controls on a controller to integrate with any plugin: a knob to select the the control in the plugin we want to manipulate, another knob for adjusting continuous controls, and a button for controls that are clickable. This seems doable and intuitive. You turn one knob on your controller and the UI rapidly hops from one plugin control to the next. When you land on the one you want to manipulate, you use the other knob to adjust continuous controllers or you press the button for clickable controls. How hard would that be? Seems like it would be super fast, intuitive, and would require zero mapping of plugin controls to physical controller knobs. Sure, you won't get the ability to manipulate multiple controls at once, but if you want to do that, just automate your moves.
Am I nuts or does this make sense?
I guess that's what my kensington trackball does. Essentially a mouse. The idea of the UC1 and UF8 is for mixers used to the console workflow can move seamlessly from the physical console to the controllers and plugins in their home studio set up at a fraction of the price. For the rest of us it's the allure of "SSL" and workflow after that, as anyone not familiar with the console format will have a learning curve. Love your last name. :)
I already burned myself with the original Mackie Logic/Universal Control, so Ive had my warning quite early and thats why I choose for a touch screen instead of a controller, works great without any special setup for all my plugins
That’s interesting, do you run them via an iPad or something? Anything with a tactile control that gets your eyes off the screen and listening to what you’re adjusting has to be a good thing!
Great news: SSL has now announced that it will be soon possible to control third party plugins as well (as a free update). This is in my opinion a big step forward for these controllers.
Please note, the Before drums sound way better than the After drums.
Rounder, fuller.
The after drums are thin, over compressed and over EQ'ed.
The only thing the Before drums need is a little limiting, a little boost at 8k and a little bottom.
Have you tried Console One? It’s smaller and works great, feels really effortless
I love em! I use my analog gear AS plug ins ;)
I’m using a Console 1 with the Behringer X-Touch in Luna. It works OK but only OK.
Let us also consider: The SSL Console is only good for the... SSL Console. And whatever series of console that was, it was. No option for numerous bus comps, or switching between console types. You had to slide to either end of the console to move faders or tweak an eq/comp.
The UF8 can work with any 3rd party plugin.
I think the gear looks awesome in your studio, but understand why it doesn't work long term for you. And in the case of your use, I agree with you. In the niche case of folks loved working on the SSL Console, this is a wonderful alternative. The 4KB for example was only sold to start via purchase of the UC1 but also to subscribers. SSL is thinking outside the box and being pretty inclusive of their base as they garner new users. Imagine if Audiotonix somehow made Slate Digital VMR accessible via the UC1. FG-S/N/A/Custom eq and FG-401etc. That'd be a cool way to use their combined companies and begin to integrate. Great video!! Cheers
the original mackie control was great and all features worked In DP.
For me only nuendo with the yamaha nuage are really well integrated and also the Fairlight console that work with davinci resolve most mackie control hui or mcu suck to be fully workable.
So Harrison joined the SSL-group. I think there will be a Harrison console also available on the DAW controller in the future... I use Harrison Mixbus 32c v9 as my main DAW and the DAW-controller-feeds needs to be updated to the latest version. Or they will be UF8 only...:(