As someone who's read the entire book series 4 times, you're putting into words all of the problems that I had with the show. Thank you so much for doing this.
Welp, he randomly showed up in season 2 with no explanation. Maybe they mentioned his name and I missed it, but I think it took me an episode or two before I was like "Oh, that's supposed to be Elyas".
@@TheNightrider88 yeah I know, I have read them like 5 times. It's easier to write a totally white haired guy in his late 50's/ 60's that is still a badass than to cast one for tv though. I was more annoyed that he robbed Mat and Rand upon meeting them than how he looks lol
@@rgoodwyn I don't know, man. Sean Connery was still badass as hell, when he played in The Rock) I was annoyed by anything aout him. He doesn't look like charismatic performer, his singing skill is awful, no one would believe that he once was royal bard and queen's lover and he doesn't look smart enough to be master of political intrigue. Also, the fact that he wears nondescript coat instead of cloak with many patches illustrates the main principle of this show - if something was described in great detail in the book, it would look opposite.
I think the reason Jordan set the Thom vs. the Myrdraal fight in broad daylight is because he's gradually trying to take away any sense of safety. It's a theme that gets repeated several times in this first book, with the first arrival in Emond's Field, with Rand's thoughts as he's dragging his father back to Emond's Field after the events of Winter Night, with Baerlon, when Mat and Rand travel on the road and find darkfriends in every town along the way etc. He's telling us that towns, even cities aren't safe. People aren't safe because there's darkfriends all around. And even in broad daylight, where you assume "The Shadow" wouldn't be able to get to you, a Myrdraal will take your mentor from you. So where can our protagonist find safety then? Tar'valon, among the Aes Sedai? Maybe not even there, and if not, then maybe nowhere.
Funny thing is Perrin is actually more attracted to the Traveling people than Egwene. But Perrin is scared of violence in the book. Perrin just thinks that their ideology is incompatible with a world with Trollocs, or bullies, or anyone who needs to be corrected. Perrin’s problem with Egwene is that she is being inconsistent. He doesn’t like the inconsistency.
Also, Rand and Egwene, in the books, are sort of informally engaged. Everyone "knows" (assumes) that Rand and Egg-wayne are going to get married, thus, she's basically cheating on Perrin's friend.
@@Nyet-Zdyes also Perrin knew Aram wanted a serious relationship and he thought she was leading Aram on so she can have fun to forget the hardships of the days from Edmond’s Field. Very unhealthy.
@@jsbrads1 Another excellent point! She's toying with Aram. Like she's also been toying with Rand in the show. This is a lot more tolerable, if she's more like 16-17 like in the books... and less so at age 20.
@@Nyet-Zdyes I think in the TV show she wanted it all and then she decided to become a Wisdom… and she was honest with Rand eventually that it wouldn’t work, she was going to end up leaving him. Yes later she tried to use Rand after she dumped him… unfair, low behavior, but some men are receptive to that because they are weak.
"where is all the money?" Is an excellent question. This show looks like a contemporary of Xena or Hercules the legendary journeys. No shade on those shows, they were cranking out way more episodes on a much tighter budget ... and yet somehow more than 20 years later a show with a much higher budget, making far fewer episodes, with much better vfx tech at their disposal, makes something that looks this cheap.
Hard agree! I was just telling someone else that this show is feeling more like one of those old SciFi channel shows.... only there are fewer likeable characters. Lol
I have said that if this wasn't WoT and some original CW-esq show it wouldnt be so bad. Its the divergence from the books so early in the story that is the biggest issue I have it causes a cascading set of issues.
"The story-maker proves a successful 'sub-creator'. He makes a Secondary World which your mind can enter. Inside it, what he relates is 'true': it accords with the laws of that world. You therefore believe it, while you are, as it were, inside. The moment disbelief arises, the spell is broken; the magic, or rather art, has failed."-JRRT
The main structural problem of this episode is the Aes Sedai are stuck in their camp shielding Logain, and they explain only a few of them are strong enough to shield him. The writers deliberately forgot about Aes Sedai linking, to share strength, which is how they shield him in the book. But they didn't forget about linking altogether, because they link to Gentle Logain at the end of the episode. The plot contradicts itself.
There are still limits. Better to have five women fighting an attacking army outside while two strong women are guarding the prisoner that the other way around. Not real *spoilers* but magic mechanicals explained later in the book series: Also, in the book, the women create six complementary shields, tho they say that they don’t know why they don’t link and make one strong shield, the book later hints that a singular shield if far more susceptible to penetration than the six independent complimentary shields.
@@jsbrads1 No, that's not what happens. To implement the shield they traditionally use a full circle, but then a circle of six to maintain it. They aren't independent shields. Moreover, to have some Aes Sedai fighting the army wouldn't be needed if they were moving. They introduced the difficulty of shielding Logain (only having 3 available sisters) as the reason the camp was immobile. They forgot about linking when they needed to for the plot, and then remembered it when they needed it for their plot. It's bad writing and the episode doesn't work because of it.
@@jsbrads1 no it is not six complementary shields. It’s explained in detail on the wiki how it is done. It’s a single shield of shared strength. Quoting: Traditionally to overwhelm the power of the strongest male channelers it is needed a shield sustained by the power of a full circle of thirteen Aes Sedai and later to hold such shield it is needed a circle of six Sisters. To maintain a shield over the strongest female channelers usually it is enough a circle of two Aes Sedai. But in the case of the captured SPOILER, Cadsuane decided to use always a circle of three Sisters.
Regarding your PSA. Speaking as someone who does remember episode 5. You ain't seen nothin' yet 🎶 B-b-b-baby, you just ain't seen n-n-nothin' yet 🎶 Here's something that you never gonna forget 🎶 B-b-b-baby, you just ain't seen n-n-nothin' yet 🎶
In the book, Rand & Egwene were interested in each other but not in an active relationship. If you remember the scene wit Min telling Rand, she isn't for you or something like that. She knew Rand was interested but... it wasn't going to happen. Perrin probably had an inkling of an idea that Rand and Egwene were headed towards a relationship so he wasn't a fan of Aram and all of the attention he was throwing at Egwene. It had nothing to do with Perrin & Egwene. He didn't like Egwene cheating on Rand even though they weren't in a relationship. Later when Perrin mentions Egwene dancing up a storm with Aram, she is actually a bit guilty about it. A bit silly because she was not in a relationship with Rand. In the books it takes a few books for some of the romance plots to heat up. Too slow for Hollywood so they ramped everything to 11. As you already pointed out. No childhood innocence. Banging away in the main room of the Inn.
The loss of innocence seems to be part of the story in the book.... so the show is skipping that, I guess. Haha. Interesting point about Perrin.The only counter argument I have to the book's version of Perrin and Egwene was that Elyas drills Perrin on how he feels for Egwene., and Perrin is flustered. Hmm. It could have just been the obscurity fluttering him..... but then, is the show hooking them up.
It is a bit difficult to discuss certain plot changes in the tv show that point to major changes SEVERAL books down the line. I have no clue how you are going to get through this undertaking without someone spoiling something. You see a change from book one in the tv show but we know the long term ramifications of the change and are chomping at the bit to scream about the consequences.
🙏 Sorry it took so long to get this up. Videos should come faster, now, since I'm almost done with the book. I try to respond to all comments, but if I don't get to yours, it's much appreciated, anyway. 🥰 06:35 - Finding typos AFTER publishing is my favorite. 🤦♀️
You touched on how strange it is that Moiraine basically gives up searching for the villagers. This show seems to have no sense of urgency. 4 villagers get told one of them is the Dragon Reborn? "Huh, that's strange. Guess we should go". The party gets separated? "Eh, let's fack off for a month".
I have my suspicions that the show had multiple writers who were never in the same room with eachother, and no one oversaw the final edits of the scripts.
@@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS Probably. But I also have suspicions that Rafe Judkins et al wanted to tell their Aes Sedai fanfiction and something like the main plot and Moraines entire existence/mission in the books gets shuffled off. She has spent the last 20 years being dedicated to this one thing. Then decides in episode 4 that she has better things to do.
@@IamVendel I don't think that Series!Moiraine was dedicated to anything, especialy for a 20 years. She is too irresponsible and airheaded for such a feat. More likely she jsut do whatever pleases her.
Sadly I think they have read this. Rafe Judkins asserted that 70% of book fans love the show. I think his math is wrong, but that 70% figure is probably not an accident.
@@bookcloaks I suspect his "math" comes from Twitter, as of the time he said that. Once S2 arrives and people start tweeting about it... with the new guidelines, I think Rafe is going to have to revise those numbers... downwards... significantly.
@@jsbrads1 Oh... SOMEONE is certainly trying to hide how bad the show is. It MIGHT not be Rafe... but I wouldn't be even remotely surprised if it is him. OTOH, there's been evidence of various sites, especially including Amazon, deleting bad reviews, hiding them, etc.
Regarding the teasing by the fire, just keep in mind that in the books, Lan was flat out impressed at Nynaeve's tracking ability in the book, and gave her an unqualified compliment. Then, Nynaeve proves it by tracking Lan and Moiraine and sneaking up on them, until Moiraine detects her with preternatural means. Lan still gets to look good by easily finding Nynaeve's horse, but he still has a high opinion of her skills, as he shows when he enlists her help rescuing Perrin and Egwene. On the show, Lan is demanding to know how Nynaeve tracked him, as if there is some secret or trick that explains her success, that Nynaeve is simply good enough is not within the realm of his comprehension. Then, at the campfire, when Nynaeve says she tracked Lan, the warders all burst out laughing, because this scene is about Lan. Right before that, they were laughing at the time Lan tried to train a horse and was dumped in a trough, and now they have another punchline - this GIRL actually TRACKED him! Ha, ha! That Lan! He gets dumped in horse troughs and he lets a girl track him! What a goober! There's no indication of respect for Nynaeve's feat, just glee in putting down another person. Nynaeve's accomplishment (one of the few that was retained in the adaptation), has been repurposed to humanize an male character.
That is a very interesting point you bring up. Do these writers know what teasing is? Do they know that people can get a laugh at someone messing up, when everyone knows he's actually really good? And do they even know what a compliment is? 🧐
In the books, women can sense other women's ability to channel even before they ever start channeling. Morraine knows as soon as she meets Egwene and Nynaeve that they will both be powerful channelers. She leaves Nynaeve because she has already learned how to control it (even if she doesn't know it) but Egwene hasn't started yet and it's dangerous for her to learn on her own. In the book world, Every Aes Sedai would have been all over Nynaeve in that camp because of her strength in the power and they all would have known it the first time they met her.
Just to add to that, in the books it is made clear that a woman who can channel senses others who can do so, even if unconciously. They cannot come near another person who can channel WITHOUT sensing it. Even if some do not know, why they feel a kind of kinship towards other women(if they are untrained), but they still feel it. So it's actually a pretty big change from the book lore.
@@kithrynevergreen Expanding a bit on what you posted... Women who can channel can sense other women who WILL eventually channel. It's a subtle but important distinction. They CAN'T sense the ones who will NOT channel without being taught. Both Egwene and Nynaeve fall into the category of "they absolutely will channel, even without training". This makes them a danger to themselves and others unless they are taught how to control it... ie., NOT slaughter people just because they have a temper tantrum.
I've been thinking about LotR films and noticed that the characters don't really have a lot of background dramatic stories. It's actually made sure that we first like the plot and the characters, and then more drama begins. We see their stories unfold in front of our eyes. In WoT a lot of drama was pushed before we actually understood what was going on. That's rather typical of modern series to overexplain and overdramatise.
Yes, I think you're onto something here. The problem is not exactly what's wrong with THIS show's writing, as much as it's symptomatic of all the terrible writing we get for all kinds of shows these days. (Willow, I'm looking at you.) My best attempt at articulating it is to say that modern writers mistake character attributes for characters. As if "she's strong" is a nuanced detail that makes the writers oh so clever.
Seriously, it undercuts so much of Egewene's story and her most impressive arcs going up towards the end of the series. Her whole point of where she ends up is that she is molded throughout the series into the leader shell eventually be and that the hardships she deals with early on give her the strength and the clarity of purpose to become more than the manipulated figurehead she is later set up to be. Turning her into one of the dragon's slaves of fate (basically what taveren ultimately are. More specifically they are pulled by the pattern itself but the dragon's influence on the pattern is so strong it's constantly established in the books through Matt's attempts at defying it and perrins introspection and acceptance that lesser taveren are more or less dragged along in the dragon's wake to fulfill his needs within the pattern whether they want to or not) invalidates all of that and reduces a strong, believably powerful female character who can not only face the dragon reborn but rebuke his taveren influences through sheer force of will into quite literally the opposite, someone so intertwined with the dragons purpose that the fabric of reality itself binds her to his will in a way. And the worst part of it all is that the writers are so unaware that they actually think they are empowering her. Why do people who have such indifference if not disdain for source material always get these positions? Why even adapt a book series to other media if this is the way that you are going to treat it?
@@rustyshackleford1062 EXACTLY. of all the "regular" people who can resist the pull of Taveren, Egwene is at the top of the list. by making her Taveren herself you lose that. now it'll just be Taveren vs Taveren. not as interesting and it removes almost all of her agency. Taveren constantly struggle with their lack of agency, it's a character feature, and it doesn't belong on Egwene.
As public service announcements go, that speech should be branded on the the wall of every writers room. It's really dispiriting how few modern writers either understand such basic rules, or perhaps have such little respect for the material they are adapting, that they ignore them.
they know the rules. They don't want to follow them or are force to not follow them to "modernize" the source. The bad writer add up to command from the management to put things aside like in She-Hulk where Disney did not want to have the mob in the serie to make the show lighter forcing to completly change the origin and the drive of the main character.
25:30 Come and rest weary traveller. You've been fighting the "Intrusive Is" far too long. 54:40 What they should have done, was follow the gorram source material instead of painting themselves into inescapable corners. This is soo unique watching a professional discover the books at the same time as the series. I'm really enjoying it, but at the same time avoiding pointing out how much the first season alone has screwed up events several books down the line. I gotta kick back, and watch your journey until I'm caught up.
Another good example of how to add new material to an adaptation is Dune, particularly the extensive inclusion of Jamis in Paul's visions. It shows how unreliable his visions are and clearly shows why Paul would hesitate to kill him then mourn him after.
Yay to long videos! I love your steps to adapt a book for TV / Movies. Apparently Hollywood no longer follows those guidelines and actively seeks to oppose those steps. The butterfly effect is key to making changes and it is pretty clear they don't care about said effect. I think it is also pretty clear that they didn't read the series before adapting the first book and they either didn't have someone to tell them about the conflicts they were creating or they didn't care because they knew the show has no chance of making it through 14 books.
They had Brandon Sanderson, he kept trying to help them make the show closer, Brandon knows how to write fairly well. At the end Brandon said, this is a different turning of the wheel to try to not shit on the show, but be honest about the reality that they changed the story.
@@jsbrads1I was so upset about what Brandon said. It is so stupid. They have changed things that are outside The Wheel, like The Dark One and the magic. This is entirely another univers.
@@diechorn after S1, they approved it for two more seasons, so it’s still officially moving forward to the end of S3. They will probably try to reassess at the end of S2. Worth mentioning, they must have achieved so level of viewership in S1, we will see they will lose viewers due to writing or that plus the terrible release schedule.
@@diechornUnfortunately that works both ways. If you spent your time carefully setting up pieces for a later payoff and then get canceled because the audience looses patience - that also doesn't work. I have watched the excellent Star Wars:Andor show which uses three episode-arcs (two episodes setting things up, third episode payoff). And I read that the most common complaint about it is "it is too slow, nothing happens". Not everybody in the audience has the same amount of patience.
The scene with Nynaeve mass healing a crowd of people gets more egregious the more you understand how the magic is supposed to work in the book. What she did in the show is literally impossible if they were following book rules, and it makes the actual Dragon seem incredibly mundane, since he does nothing even close to this impressive the entire season.
SPOILER ALERT I saw Logan as a stand in for book Rand. There are 3 things that are Rand things in this scene, sun, shield breaking and former Dragon. I saw Rand been gentled by the Aes Sedai. Besides the r***""g of the magic system.
I mean it's kinda not that impossible as such, just improbable, wilders are often more "explosive" with their use of the power, it's why they need to be taught and trained to control, also emotional duress has been talked about to cause issues for channelers, and for them to perform feats normally thought impossible. It's a bit of a cop out mind, and the scene didn't need to be there. Nynaeve also has a lot of unique Talents, in particular her ability to meld weaves and work them together is noted as exceptional in the books, particularly with Healing and how she heals being very different to how the Yellow Ajah traditionally heal. It's one of the reasons she does some of the things she does in the books (avoiding spoilers XD). Nynaeve is also someone who's been using her power for a few years, Rand is still learning what he can/can't do, as you know by the end of book 3 he's doing some pretty wacky things.
I agree with you, however outside Jurene? Not a real spoiler, one person does get a kind of backwash from a healing weave, but she was touching the person being healed.
@@jsbrads1 But that is, as you pointed out, ONE other person, who was touching the healed one and Nynaeve had had training in channeling at that time. It is still faar faaaaar off from just screaming and healing an entire room by doing it.
The only reason for Logain to see Nynaeve’s weave was so they could call back to the “bright as the sun” line about the dragon. They just wanted us to think she could be a potential dragon. Such great mystery
The thing that scary about half men isn’t that they are spooky in the dark, sure they are, but the fact that they can come for you in broad daylight and they WILL kill you. Unless you are protected by someone who is a channeler, or is incredibly skilled in combat. Also. Logain is awesome. Glory of men, seal breaker. The black tower protects, always.
this episode breaks so much of the world building of the books, thrown all away for the sake of having nonsensical "personal drama" that the writers thought were going to be "cool" or "deep and insightful" this show from the very beginning had drifted so far from the books that it does not deserve to bear the same name
Hey, nice to see ya here. Yeah, nothing is really the same besides names, and that's really not an exaggeration. Characters are vastly different to near opposites, none of the places we go to are anything like their book coounter parts with little to nothing uniquely characteristic about them (Even using the same set for Shadar Logoth and Tar Valon, you know, the run down cursed place and the thriving city of the Aes Sedai), and the plot is at best loosely inspired. At best. What is the point of calling it an adaptation?
@@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS I do hope you continue on with the book series though, there is so much that I am choking back saying because I do not want to spoil it for you, that first read through of a great series is a precious thing. Also, when you ask where the money for the show went, they had a rather large wig budget . . . . .
At the 1:01 mark Sword and Pen mentions the weaves that Logain is not supposed to see. In the book, it is eventually established that Logain can see Ta'veren, and the show, in wishing us to have more suspense regarding who will eventually prove to be the Dragon Reborn, led me to think that rather than just Rand, Nat and Perrin being Ta'veren, perhaps they intend Nynaeve to be one as well. This would explain what Logain sees, as this is a 'Talent' related to the Power, but not of the Power. That said, I very much doubt the show will explore that with any consistency, but is does both explain what Logain sees and will be much more meaningful when he finally sees Rand as he is marched through Camelyn and realises that man will shake the world. This is why, we later learn, Logain laughs as he is marched, a prisoner, through the streets of Camelyn.
Yes, Logain is the best part of the show by magnitudes. A meme in the community is that Logain is the patron saint of stolen Glory and undeveloped characters and the show starts off by treating him with astonishing respect and importance. It showed how devastating the Dragon could be, how dangerous false faith is, and how important the Aes Sedai's job is in controlling them... while also foreshadowing by the rapid increase in false Dragons, as if the Wheel that Weaves the Pattern of reality is preparing for something... And the show, here, did great work building the foundation for that. But it flubs it hard and fast. Also, you touched on a plot note for later, where the aes sedai inadvertently make things worse in their quest to protect the world from itself. Excellent foresight.
I love how your manic energy as you go on echoes my feelings when thinking about the episodes :D Comments from a big book fan (no spoilers): - A personal opinion moment: it feels so weird to me that some people see anything romantic between Perrin and Egwene, I really can't see it at all; he literally says in the book that he loves her like a sister and that's absolutely how it always read to me - The Tinkers without Elyas loses the point of those scenes (for Perrin's part anyway). Having no counterpoint to the Way of the Leaf makes it feel like an exposition dump - Logain (despite the actor being about twenty years older than the character, seriously how is this guy alive) made this the best episode so far as I truly enjoyed his scene at the start. He was so compelling that I was like, let's follow this guy's story! - Not a part of this episode but it just struck me: there is no reason for show-only watchers to properly understand why being the Dragon Reborn is terrifying. The villagers make it sound like an inconvenience - Adding religion, great job *unapologetic eyeroll* - Logain planning to get captured to weaken the Aes Sedai so the army can clean up fixes why they appeared but not why the Warders had no scouts out - The money went on location scouting, I mean, all those panoramic shots (of totally different landscapes despite the characters being in the same area) - I was confused in the scene where Kerene's Warder runs in for revenge: Logain is trying to break out of his shield yet Stepin's axes break on it, so is it physical then? Changes from the book whatever, I still need to know the rules! Same as why Nynaeve's Healing caused light and her braid to undo dramatically (also she's Healing without looking but I guess that's another 'necessary change') - As far as I recall, Ny hasn't ever channeled before in the show but was clearly on the cusp, so if they're following their own rules, all the sisters should've been on her, likely offering to train her. I guess they don't care? ...Another necessary change?
As for the travelling people and Aram in specific, we will see their philosophy put to the test and Aram has a story arc that runs to near the end of the series. And the backstory for the traveling people has some very interesting takes and where they came from. You learn it in one of the most interesting chapters in the early books.
The reason logain can see the weaves is because they needed him to be in awe of nynaeve and so he was. I doubt they ever even considered that it would break continuity. This inconsistency happens a lot. I don’t know what the budget of this show is but it’s produced by the same people that did rings of power. Rings of power is the first billion dollar show yet it’s got the quality of movies individuals make for a few hundred grand. It almost makes me wonder if they’re using these to launder money. It’s not just paramount. Look at the obi wan series. They had a sequence where several grown men chase a 10 yr old leia around like Benny hill and can’t catch her. At one point she ducks under a tree and a guy is like oh no what do I do now. Then there’s a laser gate that obi wan can’t get over but they have a wide shot that clearly shows he could just walk around it. It really is baffling how they can spend so much and produce so little.
Ugh, Show Liandrin is such a bastardisation... wait, that's _every_ character in this show... my apologies. xD Well, what are you expecting to see next episode? I'm curious to know what your intuition is predicting.
@@galetempus1979 Oh she's not the worst (that would be... actually the worst is difficult to gauge, collectively the Emond's Field Five are all the worst... though Moron annoys me the most), I just really hate how I found Book Liandrin more sinister and creepy while this Liandrin lacks everything that made me uneasy about Book Liandrin. She's both more in-your-face and yet more of a wet lettuce with the pitiful attempts at making her "sympathetic".
9:50 We believe that Elias will be introduced in season 2 as some of the previews suggest. Unless they combine Hopper and Elias into one character. Sometimes they just have to do things because of budget and right now Amazon is on their production companies about budgets.
So, I recently bought the first book Robert Jordan ever wrote (which never got published until recently, due to circumstances, by the way), and in it I found a quote that should have been read by the writers of the show. For context, it's about a woman from another world who just arrived and was send to a slavemaster even though the main character said she wouldn't be. "She's learning the rules of existence, Wulfgar, the rules that a child picks up as it grows. She wasn't born here, and the rules she learned aren't the rules here. I don't think she really believes that violence can touch her. She's learning the one lesson she must learn if she's to survive. She cannot live in this world using the rules of the world she's left."
So in the WOT world some people, (usual channelers but not always), have abilities that allow them to see things, case in point Min. Logan is one of these, so he can see Nynaeve's power, but not her weaves. Which is not something the show explained so, bad on them! lol @@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS
The only person they show with an ability like that right now is Min. They don't show or talk about this specific power until book 2@@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS
Regarding the suggestion at about 42:15, handling Liandrin, by having Lan explain, is not too far from what happened in the books. Lan is talking to Perrin about the wolf-issue, and Perrin says he knows about the Red Ajah, and Lan corrects him, saying what he has heard is mostly wrong, and that the Red Ajah are fighting the Dark One in their own way. The Red Ajah, the Aes Sedai in general and the Whitecloaks are far more nuanced in the books.
The Whitecloaks in the books are portrayed as deeply misguided people, leaving more harm in their wake, but that does no make them evil villains and there is a fair share of just, honorable people among them. Pedron Niall is actually a tragic figure! But, I guess, it's too outdated view, and making them one-dimensional depraved bastards are more modern.
I can understand how, in the days where tv is as intellectually deep as a thimble, they've taken an extremely deep book series and turned it into girl boss identity politics. I knew we were screwed when the prologue to the pilot had Morraine focus on the men corrupting the male source of the power and not the Dark One.
Man, your observations are SO damn spot on. The character inconsistency between Mat and Rand carried from Ep 3 through Ep 4. It also wasn't clear when Mat was acting as himself vs under the influence of the dagger so he just seemed super inconsistent as a character. They needed to use an audio cue like LotR whenever the ring tempted Frodo, it would have given the dagger more prominence and would have made Mat's character under its influence more of a plot point.
My issues with the book versus the movie moments were the "Wait, what?" moments. I completely enjoyed the books, that may have colored it; I admit that. But constantly asking, "Wait, what?" pulled me out of it.
@@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS This is spoiler free, however Mat and Perrin become my most loved characters. In Mat's "defense" he is The Fool, as in the tarot card. I think the show kind of (and I mean that loosely) encapsulates that but the book does a better job. As you've read this far, the show clearly portrays him as some sort of conniving thief, but, in the source material, he's more of a ne'er do well that comes across circumstance.
The Aes Sedai camp scene is an amalgam of multiple chapters that come much later, combined with some implied actions that happen off screen (in the books), and adds scenes that never happen to foreshadow events that will happen later - presumably because they’re going to cut the original foreshadowing scenes. Everything in that scene comes from later books, but does happen in this chronological order. This is more obvious in later books, but each chapter is written from a different character’s perspective, and you hear Liandrin and others summarize the Logain capture in a much later book, even though his capture was more or less contemporaneous with Moiraine in the Two Rivers. Nynaeve and Moiraine weren’t there at all. Nynaeve’s super healing powers is foreshadowing, which shows up more obviously in later books. Perrin is capable of violence but doesn’t want to is foreshadowing. Perrin killing his wife is also foreshadowing, though I don’t like how they did it (circa book 6-9). Each of the main characters goes through their own Heroes Journey, so assume that’s how they’ll progress.
In the books Nynaeve has used the one power a lot of times during her time as a Wisdom. She is a so called "Wilder", so this would not be her first time touching the source. What women can see of other women channeling(after they become adept at channeling themselves) is "an aura", and the brightness of it reflects how much power that is being channeled. Women can also sense when other women are channeling and where, even if they can't see them. But as you said, not any of this is really made clear to people not familiar with the books. They are literally EVERYWHERE when it comes to establishing foundational rules of the world. I believe I've heard(read) that they had massive production problems due to covid which may explain the lack of extras and shooting. The second season seems better by a mile production-wise, although they've deviated a lot lore-wise.
I agree with pretty much all of the criticism here. Something that nagged at me I haven't seen in the other comments is Moiriane's bizarre "I can't tell if Logain is stronger than Nynaeve" line. It's one of those things I can excuse in the context of the series, i.e. she wouldn't be able to gauge exactly how strong Logain is, but I *know* why the writers are doing it; it's because they want to impress upon the viewer just how mega-strong in the Power Nynaeve is with a dash of the Women Good and Strong Men Weak and Bad theme they have going. But, like....Logain -is- monstrously powerful. It's why he gathered followers and he earnestly believed he was the Dragon Reborn. He's (word of god) in the second-highest tier of male channeler strength. Nynaeve is a remarkably strong channeler, among the strongest the white tower has seen in centuries, but Logain is almost a *dozen* strength tiers above her, that's not "hard to tell".
As someone who loves the book dearly . the moment I saw how they aged up the characters I check out , Nothing I’ve heard gives me any want to try again .
I'm so glad you talked about the Butterfly Effect when it comes to those adaptations, although i call it the Snowball Effect. This is EXACTLY what i've been trying to explain about Game Of Thrones for YEARS. The problem wasn't the ending, it was the fact that many things needed to get to that ending never happened or happened differently. All the changes they made throughout the show snowballed to a point that they lost control of the story that was laid out by GRR Martin. Particularly when it comes to Daenerys they cut out several very important characters from her journey.
I’m looking forward to seeing your reaction for episode 5 (I recommend you bring some caffeine to that viewing) almost as much as I am to see your thoughts on the season finally.
I had gripes with this whole episode, but my biggest gripe was the Aes Sedai camp section because the whole set-up made no sense (besides being an addition that was not in the books). They have captured the (apparently) most powerful male channeler of the time, who has built an army, conquered kingdoms and has a devoted following who will definitely want to break him free. It takes two Aes Sedai at all times to maintain the shield on him. Do you: a) Place his cage in the centre of the camp so that, if needed, other Aes Sedai can quickly come to assist the two shielders; make your camp in an area with good all-round visibility so that you can't be approached unnoticed; and put out pickets to provide early warning? or b) Set up camp in a gully in woodland where you can't see anybody approaching until it is far too late; not put out pickets to give early warning; and move the cage into a cave some distance away from the camp with just the two shielders inside, nobody nearby to call for help if needed, or warn the Aes Sedai inside if enemies approach? Not to forget - how on earth did they get the cage into that cave? From what I can remember, the entrance looked to be narrower than the cage. And how did they even get it there from the camp? It must weigh close to a ton, but they apparently got it off the wagon, carried it a couple of hundred yards through woodland and uphill.
Also when the show said they are hundreds of miles from the Tower they massively understaed it. The are almost fifteen hundred *miles* from the Tower. They would've travelled 77 kilometres, on foot or horseback, per day to arrive at the tower in the month. The writers thought through their plot so little that they had their characters run nearly two marathons every day for a month to get where they need to be.
02:18 - One change / addition that I consider really good is in the Foundation series on Apple TV (based on Asimov's books of the same name). The show created the concept of a ruling trifecta for the empire - the same individual, cloned, at 3 ages - young (Dawn), mature (Day) and elderly (Dusk), to ensure stability and continuity of rule. It was really effective in conveying the essence of the source material because the title character in the first book - Hari Seldon - thought that the empire was failing due to stagnation, bureaucracy and lack of innovation. Having the empire being ruled by the same person (albeit at different ages) symbolized this. In the show, Hari Seldon (played by Jared Harris) says to the emperor Day - "You offer nothing new, just a younger grape, from the same vine, destined for the same old bottle" Of course, this change also helps to keep the same actors through the duration of the series, since the Foundation books spans thousands of years :)
@@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS I got AppleTV solely because of the Foundation series - subscribing only for the duration of Season 1. I have mixed feelings about the adaptation - I was really happy to have a visual experience of the Foundation worlds and themes, but there are some changes to the source material that I thought didn't help the story (nothing as radical as with WoT, though). Have not yet watched Season 2. But the books are and always will be awesome :)
The traveling people are kinda boring, true. Their backstory is everything but that, though. You get that somewhere around book 5, I think. And it actually blew me away when I read that. It all tied so neatly together and that was one of the strongest parts of Jordan's writing. His attention to detail really made it believable for the Pattern to exist, especially when you see all the butterfly effects that are present throughout the books. Unfortunately, the writers of the show are not nearly smart enough to think through all the changes they make and how they'll affect the things later on, but still arrogant enough to make those changes.
Elyas is important because not only does he help Perrin and Egwene survive, he tells Perrin what being a wolfbother is and why he should embrace it, which he does later in the series. Cutting him out was a huge mistake. Also, you're absolutely right, adaptations shouldn't add anything unless absolutely necessary, especially when adapting a book series 14000 pages long lol, I like your idea of two Dragons, but as you will get further along in the series, especially The Shadow Rising (Book 4) you will see how the Dragon is a "destructive" Messiah; the prophecies say he will save the world, but in the process create huge changes, a lot of death and destruction. What makes the books so interesting, is that Robert Jordan found a way to both play "The Chosen One" trope straight and subvert it.
In the books, there are prophecies about the Dragon. However, knowledge of the prophecies is fragmented and they can be interpreted in different ways. Some male channelers who think they are the Dragon have tried to fulfill the prophecies, at least the parts they know about. There are also people who use the prophecies for personal and political gain. But certain people have more knowledge of the prophecies than others. Moiraine knows whether or not a Dragon is false based on if they fulfill specific conditions of the prophecies.
In the books, Moiraine knew exactly that is was a boy, who was borned at a certain time near Dragonmount. Then at some point, she came across the fact, that there was Illian unit operating near Dragonmount at the known time, and that the certain officer soon got retired and returned to his homeland. With a toddler. Then she simply waited until the child will be old enough to visit.
(No Spoilers in this comment) Finished the whole video... You're asking a lot of great questions. I smile whenever you're making guesses or wondering about the details of an event. All I will say is, keep reading! :D On the topic of the show, strap in because it doesn't miraculously start addressing the problems you've been pointing out.
Love this series of analysis, especially having read more than half the series so far. Its like learning it all over again, and seeing how wonderfully Robert Jordan crafted his interwoven characters. The worst part of this episode is how taking Logain's power away, vice what really happens when someone is gentled, will have disastrous consequences to how things play out in the future books. The shift of such a fundamental element is not something you can fix as the series progresses, and is another in a long line of broken elements that have huge future implications. This show takes critical things way too lightly, changing them as the writers wish and further shows how they have either no concept of, nor have maybe ever read the books. Thanks for slogging through this for us; you have more courage and tenacity than I.
Very insightful and honest reviews in this WoT review series. I've only read the first half of the first book, a free promotion that was trying to entice the reader to purchase the full book when it was initially published. This show's problems go far beyond being a poor adaptation; it is internally inconsistent, poorly constructed, has badly developed characters, the worldbuilding is an absolute travesty, and it fails to hold the viewer's attention. I've enjoyed all of your comments about the show, and the interjections from other media are excellently edited and well chosen. I definitely wasn't expecting a cut to Red vs. Blue! Please continue with the longer videos.
The issue with the scene with all the warders and the other stuff is that it happens organically in future books. Didn’t need to happen in S1. They cut out so much important stuff to include these scenes that break the plot and character motivations and change the story arc (no Caemlyn).
Dear God I have blanked out the Ep 4 battle. Thanks for the reminder. I cut it down to the bare bones and I think it makes more logical sense in the fan edit. On to your Ep 5 review!
The pulling the power out looks fine, but causes inconsistencies later. It's called gentling for men early on, but later you learn the real term is severing. It's not pulling the power out, it's a sharp cutting off of the power like cutting a branch off a tree or something which is important.
I agree. I have several big problems with the TV show and one of them is making Thom Merrilyn a minor side character. He's... if not a major character in the book then at least a medium character and one that is important in several ways, most notably training the boys and being a source of info on the wider world. All that is totally gone in the show. Siiiiiggghhh... And yes, the Dark Shadow is much more of a character in the book. At first I was wary of the dream passages but as time went on I liked them more, I understood what Jordan was doing with them. The show dumps all of that, or most of it, for the cause of saving time.
I legit laughed out load at the RvB reference. Good job. I'd also like to say that one quote from Elyas was one of my favorite lines in that first book. Really powerful scene for me.
I had no clue why they didn't introduce Thom at the same point as the book. I know there are a lot of characters to develop but that is easily fixed. ADD MORE EPISODES. Amazon could afford more. Maybe they should have spent a billion on Wheel instead of that garbage rings show. You nailed every mistake they made with Thom. In the show, why would he risk his life? In the book, they traveled for 20 to 30 days with Thom. It was about 650 miles to Whitebridge. The book clearly develops why he took a fatherly role with the kids and why he was willing to sacrifice his life because he failed his nephew. They add trash and cut a PIVOTAL plot. They could have completely removed the traveling folk and spent a few minutes with Elyas. Maybe a brief conversation with Elyas about a caravan passing in the distance. Then a whole lot more time with Thom.
You forget that Rings of Power is the pet project of the boss, this show was not. The producers asked for a two hour pilot and ten episodes but were only given eight and no pilot. I will not defend how they used the time given to them but I will argue that if you only have eight episodes then probably you shouldn't spent more then one in Emonds field. But then the problem is that you have to introduce 9(!) important characters in the first episode (the "Emonds Field 5", Moirane, Lan, Tam Al Thor and Padan Fain). That is already far too much for 60 minutes (rule of thumb is 5-6 characters). Thom is the only character whose introduction can be reasonably delayed and he does get the time to do a proper introduction in episode 3.
The algorithm says that viewership drops of after 8 episodes, so Amazon won't both trying even if the show will suffer as a result. They don't seem to understand that viewers stop watching shows because of their poor quality, not because there's too many episodes.
From what I've heard, I believe there was some scheduling/availability issues with the actor they hired to play Thom meaning he wasn't available for filming the earlier episodes. I'm guessing had he been available he would've been present from episode 1 to his final appearance in the season.
You don't change a story or a shooting schedule for an unknown actor. Most people haven't seen anything he was in before Wheel so I don't believe that rumor. If true, it shows how little they actually care about the source material.
Not being complainy can get get old, too. 😅 I have to admit that there are quite a few writing blunders that I'm just letting slide.... but the more I let slide, the more annoyed I get. 😄
I'm a big fan of long videos, but if you want to keep things shorter, I'll cope. As long as you say all you want to say, I've got nothing to complain about. Speaking of long, this comment is long. I'd recommend bringing a sandwich! Anyway, as for some stuff about this episode, I personally didn't get a romantic vibe between Perrin and Egwene, but I could just be blind to stuff like that. What I did like about Egwene in the books at this point was how much she wanted to try everything; she was excited to learn she could potentially Channel, she started to wear her hair down even though she just came of age to braid it, a sign of adulthood for a woman in the Two Rivers, and when she and Perrin meet Elyas, she asks him if she can learn to talk to wolves. She's a naive young lady experiencing the world for the first time, and she is hungry! With Perrin, I get the impression that the show gave him a wife for him to kill in episode one because they thought it would better set up his conflict with the axe that Elyas helped him out with in the scenes you described, which is a shame. A talented actor could have really sold the disgust and agony that Perrin felt in considering to kill Egwene to spare her from a worse fate. With Thom's fate in the book, if I'm remembering correctly, Moraine's group here's some rumours about what happened to him after he fought the Fade in Whitebridge when they get there. The stuff with Moraine's group in the show really got on my nerves, too, because finding the Dragon Reborn is basically her entire reason for living, and the most she does about it at this point is cry about losing them. It's almost as if tracking isn't a thing that people can do in this show! The show also doesn't explain the magic very well at all. The only thing we have to go on about why men go crazy when they can Channel is that line from the first Prologue from Linandrin, that men make the One Power filthy when they touch it. I believe even at this point in the books, it's common knowledge that the half of the One Power that men use, Saidin, got tainted by the Dark One and his influence is what causes male Channelers to go coo-coo. Related to that, the concern that Alanna, Moraine's Green Ajah friend in the show, made about any man they capture potentially being the Dragon Reborn, could have been used so much. It could be the reason they have to get him to Tar Valon before Gentling him; so all the Aes Sedai can weigh in on his Dragon Candidacy before doing irreversible damage. It could also prompt the show to reveal why Moraine is so certain it's one of the kids from Emond's Field, because as far as I remember, the only indication the show's given that she knows it's one of them is a throw away line in the intro about rumours of four Tav'eren in the Two Rivers. At the very least, it could get us to question Moraine and her legitimacy about all this stuff. Granted, the book hadn't revealed how Moraine knew to search the Two Rivers at this point, either, but she also hadn't revealed she was searching for the Dragon Reborn at that point. The stuff with Moraine's group being some of the best content in this show had me thinking that they might have been able to make something good, or at least better, if they had tried to make their own, original work rather than adapting something else. I found this episode to be the best one of the season, so it's not much of a hope, but at the very least, it would have been less aggravating to see them mess up so much if they weren't tying their mistakes to my favorite book series. And, finally, a little thing I enjoyed a lot. Linandrin wanted to know where Nynave is from, but she didn't want to ask out right. So, she says "I can't place your accent" instead. Moraine did something similar while fishing for Nynave's age in episode 1.
yes he is level +2 (yes Robert Jordan has an official scale system). Where Rand is +1, Egweene is 18 levels LOWER than Logain. Morraine is 26 levels behind.
@@tiagodagostini I've read the wiki but never actually counted the difference 14 levels is larger than I thought, regardless the show is ridiculous in this regard
Loving the videos, no problem with them being longer. Read the books years ago, could not stomach watching the show after the first few commercials for it.
So a couple last things, I understand where you're coming from with the scene of Logan being gentled and him hanging in the air, I think what they were trying to show is that lifting someone with the one power isn't like raising them up on something solid, but more like holding them with air, but I get the complaint. As for why none of the other women could feel that Nynaeve can channel, (and this is my personal theory). So at some point in the books they revealed that Nynaeve had started channeling a long time ago, but didn't realize that's what she was doing, it's how she healed Egewene when she was young. Nynaeve now has a block, she can only channel under specific circumstances, so I think (my theory), is that this block is preventing other Aei Sedai from gauging her ability, unless she's actively channeling.
Your point about Logain being the real chosen one and flipping the trope reminds me of this one series I read. The first book is the heroes creating the team that will go into the mountain to free the people or defeat the villain or both. We spend the whole book getting to know them, their fears, their strengths and their struggles to form the hero team. Typical generic almost first book of a trilogy. They go into the mountain and all but one are killed or twisted to the dark side by the evil queen. Reading this back it isn't sounding as shocking as it was for me when I read first it. I was devastated. I loved these characters. I felt I couldn't go on to the second book where we would have to do it all over again, this time with the second best for the team. Which was how the remaining hero felt too. I loved the twist but hated it at the same time.
I so enjoy listening to these reviews because they are honest. Most other reviewer seem to have an agenda as they are supportive of the show no matter how far a field the writers go from the source material or they is the other side that are fans of the book and nothing the show does is worth watching. I have read the entire series and my biggest concern, which is touched on here, is the lack of explaining the lore and magic system. To viewers who haven't read the book this must be very confusing. The dark figures over Logain's shoulders are representative of the madness that afflicts men due to the taint left by the DarkOne when they use the one power. It is why men using the power are dangerous and need to be gentled because most can not resist the influence and go mad. It does speaks to Logain's "character" or "strength of will" that he is able to do this. It will be interesting to see how Amazon incorporates this in the future....because this becomes a very big deal in the books when the character revealed to be the Dragon Reborn has to battle this as he (or she) grows in the power. You touched on the Aes Sedai and how they can feel the power in other women and sense those who can or will touch the one power. This is the bedrock of the Aes Sedai societal hierarchy. They should have had Morraine explain this to Egwene and Nynaeve at some time early in their journey to help the viewer understand this. Your status in the tower is almost exclusively based on how strong you are with the one power and each sister can "feel" where they belong in this hierarchical structure. This would help the viewer understand that why one Aes Sedai seems to take charge over a group when they are all together as in this episose. The butterfly effect you speak of is so spot on. Get ready for more of this. Having watched the entire first season I often do not see how they will reconcile what they have changed with what "needs to happen" to get to a place in the future where the story has to get to. Relationships in book 8 are being destroyed by changes in season 1 of the show. I guess Amazon can just go with the writing is so inconsistent that we don't have to explain how we made these leaps and who cares if what they do in the future seasons lines up with what they have written in season 1. This is the the real problem with this adaptation. It isn't really an adaptation but a poorly written re-write of the story supposedly to draw in a more diverse audience. As you can tell I am not enamored with the series so far but fear this is the only opportunity I will have to see these characters "come to life" so I will continue to watch it for now with the hope they will try a little harder to be more true to the characters, the lore, and the magic in the source material even if they are going to change the story itself.
Ok I had to jump back and leave a comment her as your videos gave me the push to watch the show again. (Ugh). The wandering woman Ila says to Perrin “Has your life been better or worse since you picked up that axe?” I found myself yelling at the screen “If he hadn’t he would no longer have his life!!!” Lol
Bahaha! That's so true! Good to see you here, again, TikiDale 😉 You've stuck with me across 3 channels. That's worth a big flower and thank you, from me... but I couldn't find a flower emoji fast enough, so here's a fruity drink, instead 🍹
Oh... and Nyneave touching the power wasn't her touching it the first time. She healed a bunch of people with it without knowing she was using the One Power. Moraine was referring to Eg touching it for the first time. I don't remember the show well enough to say if they made that clear or not.
I'm really liking these videos - pointing out the flaws AND saying how to fix them is really valuable for any story-teller 😊 yet, I'm not sure I agree with the "Logain should have said he'd get captured by Aes Sedai to the Ghealdan armies", since no man who can channel would ever willingly get himself so close to be gentled. Even if it was just a backdoor for just in case he gets captured, I still don't think it would work...
@@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS Not at all and it's happened more since then. It's just that LOL is something many people say and never actually do (when they say LOL).
The "Way of the Leaf" that the Travelling people live by, as well as the history of the Traveling people is actually a fairly significant... plot point? or piece of lore that really defines a pretty large portion of the world's setting. I think the reason the Travelling people are able to survive in the world is because they normally don't have anything of value, and everyone pretty much knows that, and that they are harmless. The Travelling People can also go to some particular areas to be safe if they ever feel like they are in danger and actually tend to avoid large population centers like cities because they know they can be harmed there. For magic, it's actually easier to hold a shield than it is to forcefully cut someone off once they are actively holding magic. For a particular Man, it might take five women to collectively cut this man off while he is channeling, but it would only require two women to hold the shield on the same man once he's been shielded. Also, as a general rule of power scaling in WoT, Men, on average, tend to be much stronger than women in magic, and men and women tend to be stronger in different elements of magic too. Men tend to have natural affinities towards Fire and Earth, and women tend to have more affinity towards Air and Water, and they share an equal affinity towards Spirit, but you will find some women who might have a natural affinity towards Fire and/or Earth and the opposite for men, and sometimes you will find people who seem to be fairly even across the board in their affinities. Also, while women and men cannot see the magic of the other sex, men have a neat little advantage in that they can sort of ... feel... when women are channeling nearby, but it's nothing more than a sense that there is channeling happening, as they get goosebumps as the only real indicator. The Aes Sedai actually have alot of debates with eachother about whether they should Gentle the Dragon, with many thinking they need to, while others thinking they need to keep him "leashed" or under control long enough to win the War before gentling him. They are actually extremely arrogant and self-important, to the point that they think they alone will be the reason to defeat the Dark One. Moraine and a couple other people are pretty much the strongest Aes Sedai currently living, and are stronger by a decent margin, but Egwene and a couple other characters who havent shown up yet will be on a new level of strength beyond anything seen by Aes Sedai in... an extremely long time. Like the gap in power between Egwene and Moraine is even greater than Moraine and others below her, but then the power gap between Nyneave and Egwene is even greater than that. Egwene has a power that is downright almost legendary by Aes Sedai standards and Nyneave is pretty much Mythic and almost inhuman in comparison... and yet alot of men are stronger than either of them in magic.
That wasn't the first time nyneave had touched the power so by the logic of they can feel a person the first time they touch the power, it wasn't her first time. She's done it during healing, and whenever she's listening to the wind, she is just unaware
They did not know how powerful Nyn was because she is a Wilder who has been doing for years who has not channeling in front of a load of Aes Sedai . And as you go futher into the books Logain can tell who a ta'vereain is and that is what he saw
I really loved how you highlighted your difficulty to pronounce "Anna Karenina"... Seriously, though, Logain swinging is not that bad considering he is being lifted an buffeted with the Power by several people at once and we cannot expect 100% coordination in the context. What is bad is that he should not be lifted at all, since the act of "gentling" is more of a metaphysical act that does not need to affect your body (least not directly) and there should not be any "outflow" of Power from Logain because The Power exists in a metaphysical place outside of him (and anybody else at that) and what is being destroyed is his ability to reach that "place" and "channel" some of the Power out for his own use.
The Butterfly Effect comment reminded me of a quote (tweet, i think) from ol' Rafe himself: "I have Sarah Nakamura (our incredible WoT goddess) talk me through the long-term ramifications of any changes so that we know what's going to happen. Sometimes to drive her crazy I will send a casual email that's just like - 'Hey, can you work up a long-term ramifications list for if we kill Thom?', And just keep going like it's a totally normal day as she collapses as a human being. Then tell her we're not going to kill him. I think it helps keep her on her toes, but she probably disagrees, haha." Even with my best interpretation of that statement, it seems the show could have used more than one "lore expert". Which is wild, because Brandon Sanderson was right there, happy to help.
Well, it feels like they didn't even think about it themselves and just handed it off. And well... brandon sanderson said, the advised them against perrin having a wife and killing her and they ignored him, so I question how much they listened to their 'lore expert' as well.
That comment from Rafe tells us quite a bit about who he is as a person. He's a bully. He's aware of it. He thinks it's funny. He's not at all ashamed of it.
@@Nyet-Zdyes I believe so too, even though i expect some light hazing between friends and family. Although, if Rafe and Sarah were close friends, it'd still be gross to see for the production, essentially wasting studio resources. Still, all that could have been fine, imo, if the final product was worthwhile..
@@dudeguy8686 In regards to Rafe... leaving one of his "employees" ALL DAY... to the point of "collapsing as a human being"... that's nowhere near "light hazing". It's totally "toxic". I'm also not inclined to think that hazing is ever allowable between a boss and a subordinate, unless maybe they have some kind of relationship away from work. I strongly suspect he's doing it from a passive-aggressive personality, using it either as revenge for her objections to what he's doing to the story, or to PREVENT her from objecting to something.
@@Nyet-Zdyes I strongly agree, and didn't mean to imply that it was in fact "light hazing". That's just my largest benefit-of-the-doubt case i could give to what they might believe it was. That may have been an incredibly hyperbolic statement, while their actual working relationship was something we'd find more reasonable. Maybe. Yet even with that best-case scenario (that's unlikely true), seeing the outcome of the show, those "ramifications lists" were either woefully lacking or outright ignored many times over.
Yes, WHERE did the money go? I know LoTR was perhaps an outlier, but they accopmlished so much on a smaller budget and I have questions on why shows like this and Rings of Power, with extravagant budgets, are so visually underwhelming.
Even more than visually, why are they not hiring good writers & editors?! I mean, if the story was awesome, 90% of people would not care about a bit worse cgi. (And the fact that neither is good, really raises the question about the money)
Yeah absolutely no way that the Warders wouldn't know about a following army at least a day before it got there. They're all pretty much master tracker / wilderness survival / warriors. They'd be taking turns scouting miles around camp, and making sure to find places with good sight lines so they'd know about any major threat within 10-20 miles. Yes, they'd see Logain as the major threat and prioritize that, but we see in the books multiple times that when you get a group of Warders together, they work as a group and delegate. They wouldn't neglect scouting entirely.
With respect to the Aes Sedai not sensing that Nyneave was about to channel for the first time - this is because she has been unwittingly channeling for years when treating sick and injured people in Emond's Field. But I think it might be too generous to credit the writers/show runners with taking this into account given how sloppy they are otherwise.
As someone who's read the entire book series 4 times, you're putting into words all of the problems that I had with the show. Thank you so much for doing this.
Walk in the Light
My pleasure 😉
@@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS You say pleasure now lol. Wait until you see the next "episode".
4 times? jeezus you're a legend
Elyas is a positive male role model. Of course he was cut from the show.
With each episode, it's getting harder to ignore the motives of the writers.
Welp, he randomly showed up in season 2 with no explanation. Maybe they mentioned his name and I missed it, but I think it took me an episode or two before I was like "Oh, that's supposed to be Elyas".
*_"OK. Now we are on to the BIG problems."_*
🤣
It's a little heartbreaking that we'll never see Thom blow out his magnificient mustaches.
Hahaha! That did happen several times in the book, didn't it!
I knew that Thom would be de aged in the show but I am still sad we wont get this. They better make it up to me with a bunch of Loial ear twitches lol
@@rgoodwyn In the books Thom is aged, but he is in great shape and is very charismatic. This discount Chad Kroeger looks like hobo with guitar.
@@TheNightrider88 yeah I know, I have read them like 5 times. It's easier to write a totally white haired guy in his late 50's/ 60's that is still a badass than to cast one for tv though. I was more annoyed that he robbed Mat and Rand upon meeting them than how he looks lol
@@rgoodwyn I don't know, man. Sean Connery was still badass as hell, when he played in The Rock)
I was annoyed by anything aout him. He doesn't look like charismatic performer, his singing skill is awful, no one would believe that he once was royal bard and queen's lover and he doesn't look smart enough to be master of political intrigue. Also, the fact that he wears nondescript coat instead of cloak with many patches illustrates the main principle of this show - if something was described in great detail in the book, it would look opposite.
I think the reason Jordan set the Thom vs. the Myrdraal fight in broad daylight is because he's gradually trying to take away any sense of safety. It's a theme that gets repeated several times in this first book, with the first arrival in Emond's Field, with Rand's thoughts as he's dragging his father back to Emond's Field after the events of Winter Night, with Baerlon, when Mat and Rand travel on the road and find darkfriends in every town along the way etc. He's telling us that towns, even cities aren't safe. People aren't safe because there's darkfriends all around. And even in broad daylight, where you assume "The Shadow" wouldn't be able to get to you, a Myrdraal will take your mentor from you. So where can our protagonist find safety then? Tar'valon, among the Aes Sedai? Maybe not even there, and if not, then maybe nowhere.
Funny thing is Perrin is actually more attracted to the Traveling people than Egwene. But Perrin is scared of violence in the book. Perrin just thinks that their ideology is incompatible with a world with Trollocs, or bullies, or anyone who needs to be corrected.
Perrin’s problem with Egwene is that she is being inconsistent. He doesn’t like the inconsistency.
Also, Rand and Egwene, in the books, are sort of informally engaged.
Everyone "knows" (assumes) that Rand and Egg-wayne are going to get married, thus, she's basically cheating on Perrin's friend.
@@Nyet-Zdyes also Perrin knew Aram wanted a serious relationship and he thought she was leading Aram on so she can have fun to forget the hardships of the days from Edmond’s Field. Very unhealthy.
@@jsbrads1 Another excellent point! She's toying with Aram. Like she's also been toying with Rand in the show.
This is a lot more tolerable, if she's more like 16-17 like in the books... and less so at age 20.
@@Nyet-Zdyes I think in the TV show she wanted it all and then she decided to become a Wisdom… and she was honest with Rand eventually that it wouldn’t work, she was going to end up leaving him.
Yes later she tried to use Rand after she dumped him… unfair, low behavior, but some men are receptive to that because they are weak.
reading a comment from a fellow "Timer" makes me so happy bud ^.^
"where is all the money?" Is an excellent question. This show looks like a contemporary of Xena or Hercules the legendary journeys. No shade on those shows, they were cranking out way more episodes on a much tighter budget ... and yet somehow more than 20 years later a show with a much higher budget, making far fewer episodes, with much better vfx tech at their disposal, makes something that looks this cheap.
Hard agree!
I was just telling someone else that this show is feeling more like one of those old SciFi channel shows.... only there are fewer likeable characters. Lol
I have said that if this wasn't WoT and some original CW-esq show it wouldnt be so bad. Its the divergence from the books so early in the story that is the biggest issue I have it causes a cascading set of issues.
Higher budget before or after inflation? Besides, being showrunner isn't cheap!
@@waltjones40apparently being total rubbish isn’t cheap either!
@@saberint, no it is not.
"The story-maker proves a successful 'sub-creator'. He makes a Secondary World which your mind can enter. Inside it, what he relates is 'true': it accords with the laws of that world. You therefore believe it, while you are, as it were, inside. The moment disbelief arises, the spell is broken; the magic, or rather art, has failed."-JRRT
The main structural problem of this episode is the Aes Sedai are stuck in their camp shielding Logain, and they explain only a few of them are strong enough to shield him. The writers deliberately forgot about Aes Sedai linking, to share strength, which is how they shield him in the book. But they didn't forget about linking altogether, because they link to Gentle Logain at the end of the episode.
The plot contradicts itself.
There are still limits. Better to have five women fighting an attacking army outside while two strong women are guarding the prisoner that the other way around.
Not real *spoilers* but magic mechanicals explained later in the book series:
Also, in the book, the women create six complementary shields, tho they say that they don’t know why they don’t link and make one strong shield, the book later hints that a singular shield if far more susceptible to penetration than the six independent complimentary shields.
It's made for the Modern Audience.
You're not the target any more, sorry.
@@jsbrads1 No, that's not what happens. To implement the shield they traditionally use a full circle, but then a circle of six to maintain it. They aren't independent shields. Moreover, to have some Aes Sedai fighting the army wouldn't be needed if they were moving.
They introduced the difficulty of shielding Logain (only having 3 available sisters) as the reason the camp was immobile. They forgot about linking when they needed to for the plot, and then remembered it when they needed it for their plot. It's bad writing and the episode doesn't work because of it.
@@bookcloaks it is very clear later in the story that it is six complementary shields, if you read the books, you know where I’m talking about.
@@jsbrads1 no it is not six complementary shields. It’s explained in detail on the wiki how it is done. It’s a single shield of shared strength. Quoting: Traditionally to overwhelm the power of the strongest male channelers it is needed a shield sustained by the power of a full circle of thirteen Aes Sedai and later to hold such shield it is needed a circle of six Sisters.
To maintain a shield over the strongest female channelers usually it is enough a circle of two Aes Sedai. But in the case of the captured SPOILER, Cadsuane decided to use always a circle of three Sisters.
Regarding your PSA. Speaking as someone who does remember episode 5.
You ain't seen nothin' yet 🎶
B-b-b-baby, you just ain't seen n-n-nothin' yet 🎶
Here's something that you never gonna forget 🎶
B-b-b-baby, you just ain't seen n-n-nothin' yet 🎶
I've been really looking forward to her review of Ep5, since she dropped her review of Ep3...!
I'm wondering if we're going to get an epic rant...😂
In the book, Rand & Egwene were interested in each other but not in an active relationship. If you remember the scene wit Min telling Rand, she isn't for you or something like that. She knew Rand was interested but... it wasn't going to happen. Perrin probably had an inkling of an idea that Rand and Egwene were headed towards a relationship so he wasn't a fan of Aram and all of the attention he was throwing at Egwene. It had nothing to do with Perrin & Egwene. He didn't like Egwene cheating on Rand even though they weren't in a relationship. Later when Perrin mentions Egwene dancing up a storm with Aram, she is actually a bit guilty about it. A bit silly because she was not in a relationship with Rand. In the books it takes a few books for some of the romance plots to heat up. Too slow for Hollywood so they ramped everything to 11. As you already pointed out. No childhood innocence. Banging away in the main room of the Inn.
They were more than interested. All the girls in town acted like Egwene owned Rand.
True but they weren't in an active relationship but it was clear to everyone they were meant for each other.
The loss of innocence seems to be part of the story in the book.... so the show is skipping that, I guess. Haha.
Interesting point about Perrin.The only counter argument I have to the book's version of Perrin and Egwene was that Elyas drills Perrin on how he feels for Egwene., and Perrin is flustered. Hmm. It could have just been the obscurity fluttering him..... but then, is the show hooking them up.
It is a bit difficult to discuss certain plot changes in the tv show that point to major changes SEVERAL books down the line. I have no clue how you are going to get through this undertaking without someone spoiling something. You see a change from book one in the tv show but we know the long term ramifications of the change and are chomping at the bit to scream about the consequences.
@jmalonemyth feel free to post those in the comments. Just put a spoiler warning at the top. For me 😋
The river voyage with the gleeman and his two "apprentices" was a fantastic bit of world building. So much lost in the show.
Truth. It got fairly repetitive after they separated from Thom but the first part with him was quite nice.
But it sets up One of Matt's later adventures and some of the best swearing in the books.
🙏 Sorry it took so long to get this up. Videos should come faster, now, since I'm almost done with the book.
I try to respond to all comments, but if I don't get to yours, it's much appreciated, anyway. 🥰
06:35 - Finding typos AFTER publishing is my favorite. 🤦♀️
oh yes I was there in your struggles. You wanted ramen for breakfast. It was terrifying 😂😂
🤣 Yes.... you were there. Mix&Match, the most loyal patron one could ask for 🫡 (
@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS UA-cam is weird😵
@@MixMatch53 🍜 ramen
The videos are coming pretty fast. I'm used following channels that post once a month.
:)
You touched on how strange it is that Moiraine basically gives up searching for the villagers. This show seems to have no sense of urgency. 4 villagers get told one of them is the Dragon Reborn? "Huh, that's strange. Guess we should go".
The party gets separated? "Eh, let's fack off for a month".
I have my suspicions that the show had multiple writers who were never in the same room with eachother, and no one oversaw the final edits of the scripts.
@@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS Probably.
But I also have suspicions that Rafe Judkins et al wanted to tell their Aes Sedai fanfiction and something like the main plot and Moraines entire existence/mission in the books gets shuffled off.
She has spent the last 20 years being dedicated to this one thing. Then decides in episode 4 that she has better things to do.
@@IamVendel I don't think that Series!Moiraine was dedicated to anything, especialy for a 20 years. She is too irresponsible and airheaded for such a feat. More likely she jsut do whatever pleases her.
Only started the video, but that PSA needs to be drilled into every screenwriter, producer, director and showrunner out there.
You know they ain't listenin' 😞
Sadly I think they have read this. Rafe Judkins asserted that 70% of book fans love the show. I think his math is wrong, but that 70% figure is probably not an accident.
@@bookcloaks I suspect his "math" comes from Twitter, as of the time he said that.
Once S2 arrives and people start tweeting about it... with the new guidelines, I think Rafe is going to have to revise those numbers... downwards... significantly.
@@Nyet-ZdyesI presume the number is propaganda. It is an attempt to massage reality and hide how poor he has done.
@@jsbrads1 Oh... SOMEONE is certainly trying to hide how bad the show is.
It MIGHT not be Rafe... but I wouldn't be even remotely surprised if it is him.
OTOH, there's been evidence of various sites, especially including Amazon, deleting bad reviews, hiding them, etc.
Regarding the teasing by the fire, just keep in mind that in the books, Lan was flat out impressed at Nynaeve's tracking ability in the book, and gave her an unqualified compliment. Then, Nynaeve proves it by tracking Lan and Moiraine and sneaking up on them, until Moiraine detects her with preternatural means. Lan still gets to look good by easily finding Nynaeve's horse, but he still has a high opinion of her skills, as he shows when he enlists her help rescuing Perrin and Egwene. On the show, Lan is demanding to know how Nynaeve tracked him, as if there is some secret or trick that explains her success, that Nynaeve is simply good enough is not within the realm of his comprehension. Then, at the campfire, when Nynaeve says she tracked Lan, the warders all burst out laughing, because this scene is about Lan. Right before that, they were laughing at the time Lan tried to train a horse and was dumped in a trough, and now they have another punchline - this GIRL actually TRACKED him! Ha, ha! That Lan! He gets dumped in horse troughs and he lets a girl track him! What a goober! There's no indication of respect for Nynaeve's feat, just glee in putting down another person. Nynaeve's accomplishment (one of the few that was retained in the adaptation), has been repurposed to humanize an male character.
That is a very interesting point you bring up. Do these writers know what teasing is? Do they know that people can get a laugh at someone messing up, when everyone knows he's actually really good? And do they even know what a compliment is? 🧐
In the books, women can sense other women's ability to channel even before they ever start channeling. Morraine knows as soon as she meets Egwene and Nynaeve that they will both be powerful channelers. She leaves Nynaeve because she has already learned how to control it (even if she doesn't know it) but Egwene hasn't started yet and it's dangerous for her to learn on her own. In the book world, Every Aes Sedai would have been all over Nynaeve in that camp because of her strength in the power and they all would have known it the first time they met her.
Just to add to that, in the books it is made clear that a woman who can channel senses others who can do so, even if unconciously. They cannot come near another person who can channel WITHOUT sensing it. Even if some do not know, why they feel a kind of kinship towards other women(if they are untrained), but they still feel it. So it's actually a pretty big change from the book lore.
@@kithrynevergreen Expanding a bit on what you posted...
Women who can channel can sense other women who WILL eventually channel.
It's a subtle but important distinction.
They CAN'T sense the ones who will NOT channel without being taught.
Both Egwene and Nynaeve fall into the category of "they absolutely will channel, even without training".
This makes them a danger to themselves and others unless they are taught how to control it... ie., NOT slaughter people just because they have a temper tantrum.
@@Nyet-Zdyes you are correct of course, that is a distinction that I forgot to mention. Thanks!
@@kithrynevergreen You're welcome!
I mean...Liandrin fawns over Nyneave....so....they are all over her...what show did you watch?
I've been thinking about LotR films and noticed that the characters don't really have a lot of background dramatic stories. It's actually made sure that we first like the plot and the characters, and then more drama begins. We see their stories unfold in front of our eyes. In WoT a lot of drama was pushed before we actually understood what was going on. That's rather typical of modern series to overexplain and overdramatise.
Overdramatise is a great way of describing it. I just call in CW writing.
I will be touching on this in my review of the next episode (which I just watched 🤦♀️).
@@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONSI'll be waiting for the next video! 😊
Yes, I think you're onto something here. The problem is not exactly what's wrong with THIS show's writing, as much as it's symptomatic of all the terrible writing we get for all kinds of shows these days. (Willow, I'm looking at you.)
My best attempt at articulating it is to say that modern writers mistake character attributes for characters. As if "she's strong" is a nuanced detail that makes the writers oh so clever.
The metaphor I just thought of was "Trying to tie a current in a knot". Probably better than "Holding a cat in a bath".
Logain has a talent that allows him to see Ta’veran but Nynaeve shouldn’t be one. Nor should Egwene for that matter.
Seriously, it undercuts so much of Egewene's story and her most impressive arcs going up towards the end of the series. Her whole point of where she ends up is that she is molded throughout the series into the leader shell eventually be and that the hardships she deals with early on give her the strength and the clarity of purpose to become more than the manipulated figurehead she is later set up to be. Turning her into one of the dragon's slaves of fate (basically what taveren ultimately are. More specifically they are pulled by the pattern itself but the dragon's influence on the pattern is so strong it's constantly established in the books through Matt's attempts at defying it and perrins introspection and acceptance that lesser taveren are more or less dragged along in the dragon's wake to fulfill his needs within the pattern whether they want to or not) invalidates all of that and reduces a strong, believably powerful female character who can not only face the dragon reborn but rebuke his taveren influences through sheer force of will into quite literally the opposite, someone so intertwined with the dragons purpose that the fabric of reality itself binds her to his will in a way.
And the worst part of it all is that the writers are so unaware that they actually think they are empowering her. Why do people who have such indifference if not disdain for source material always get these positions? Why even adapt a book series to other media if this is the way that you are going to treat it?
@@rustyshackleford1062 EXACTLY. of all the "regular" people who can resist the pull of Taveren, Egwene is at the top of the list. by making her Taveren herself you lose that. now it'll just be Taveren vs Taveren. not as interesting and it removes almost all of her agency. Taveren constantly struggle with their lack of agency, it's a character feature, and it doesn't belong on Egwene.
Listening to your review is cathartic. It inspired me to actually read the books after suffering through the show last year.
Great to see another person picking up the books! I hope you'll have a lot of fun with them!
the books are MUCH better, and while they have hiccups(particularly in early books in the series) its fairly consistent
As public service announcements go, that speech should be branded on the the wall of every writers room. It's really dispiriting how few modern writers either understand such basic rules, or perhaps have such little respect for the material they are adapting, that they ignore them.
The next time an adaptation happens that is faithful to the books, it will be a hit. Hopefully people catch on.
they know the rules. They don't want to follow them or are force to not follow them to "modernize" the source. The bad writer add up to command from the management to put things aside like in She-Hulk where Disney did not want to have the mob in the serie to make the show lighter forcing to completly change the origin and the drive of the main character.
Like everything Disney put out in the last 10 years.
25:30 Come and rest weary traveller. You've been fighting the "Intrusive Is" far too long.
54:40 What they should have done, was follow the gorram source material instead of painting themselves into inescapable corners. This is soo unique watching a professional discover the books at the same time as the series. I'm really enjoying it, but at the same time avoiding pointing out how much the first season alone has screwed up events several books down the line. I gotta kick back, and watch your journey until I'm caught up.
Another good example of how to add new material to an adaptation is Dune, particularly the extensive inclusion of Jamis in Paul's visions. It shows how unreliable his visions are and clearly shows why Paul would hesitate to kill him then mourn him after.
Fantastic point/suggestion. I LOVED the adaptation. I am so excited for part 2. Saw 1 in IMAX and it was totally worth it!
Yay to long videos! I love your steps to adapt a book for TV / Movies. Apparently Hollywood no longer follows those guidelines and actively seeks to oppose those steps. The butterfly effect is key to making changes and it is pretty clear they don't care about said effect. I think it is also pretty clear that they didn't read the series before adapting the first book and they either didn't have someone to tell them about the conflicts they were creating or they didn't care because they knew the show has no chance of making it through 14 books.
They had Brandon Sanderson, he kept trying to help them make the show closer, Brandon knows how to write fairly well.
At the end Brandon said, this is a different turning of the wheel to try to not shit on the show, but be honest about the reality that they changed the story.
@@jsbrads1I was so upset about what Brandon said. It is so stupid. They have changed things that are outside The Wheel, like The Dark One and the magic. This is entirely another univers.
Don’t have to worry about the butterfly effect when the show gets canceled after 2 seasons ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
@@diechorn after S1, they approved it for two more seasons, so it’s still officially moving forward to the end of S3. They will probably try to reassess at the end of S2. Worth mentioning, they must have achieved so level of viewership in S1, we will see they will lose viewers due to writing or that plus the terrible release schedule.
@@diechornUnfortunately that works both ways. If you spent your time carefully setting up pieces for a later payoff and then get canceled because the audience looses patience - that also doesn't work. I have watched the excellent Star Wars:Andor show which uses three episode-arcs (two episodes setting things up, third episode payoff). And I read that the most common complaint about it is "it is too slow, nothing happens". Not everybody in the audience has the same amount of patience.
The scene with Nynaeve mass healing a crowd of people gets more egregious the more you understand how the magic is supposed to work in the book. What she did in the show is literally impossible if they were following book rules, and it makes the actual Dragon seem incredibly mundane, since he does nothing even close to this impressive the entire season.
SPOILER ALERT I saw Logan as a stand in for book Rand. There are 3 things that are Rand things in this scene, sun, shield breaking and former Dragon. I saw Rand been gentled by the Aes Sedai. Besides the r***""g of the magic system.
I mean it's kinda not that impossible as such, just improbable, wilders are often more "explosive" with their use of the power, it's why they need to be taught and trained to control, also emotional duress has been talked about to cause issues for channelers, and for them to perform feats normally thought impossible. It's a bit of a cop out mind, and the scene didn't need to be there. Nynaeve also has a lot of unique Talents, in particular her ability to meld weaves and work them together is noted as exceptional in the books, particularly with Healing and how she heals being very different to how the Yellow Ajah traditionally heal. It's one of the reasons she does some of the things she does in the books (avoiding spoilers XD). Nynaeve is also someone who's been using her power for a few years, Rand is still learning what he can/can't do, as you know by the end of book 3 he's doing some pretty wacky things.
I agree with you, however outside Jurene? Not a real spoiler, one person does get a kind of backwash from a healing weave, but she was touching the person being healed.
not impossible, but would 'burn out' a single user
@@jsbrads1 But that is, as you pointed out, ONE other person, who was touching the healed one and Nynaeve had had training in channeling at that time. It is still faar faaaaar off from just screaming and healing an entire room by doing it.
The only reason for Logain to see Nynaeve’s weave was so they could call back to the “bright as the sun” line about the dragon. They just wanted us to think she could be a potential dragon. Such great mystery
The thing that scary about half men isn’t that they are spooky in the dark, sure they are, but the fact that they can come for you in broad daylight and they WILL kill you. Unless you are protected by someone who is a channeler, or is incredibly skilled in combat.
Also. Logain is awesome. Glory of men, seal breaker. The black tower protects, always.
this episode breaks so much of the world building of the books, thrown all away for the sake of having nonsensical "personal drama" that the writers thought were going to be "cool" or "deep and insightful" this show from the very beginning had drifted so far from the books that it does not deserve to bear the same name
Hey, nice to see ya here. Yeah, nothing is really the same besides names, and that's really not an exaggeration. Characters are vastly different to near opposites, none of the places we go to are anything like their book coounter parts with little to nothing uniquely characteristic about them (Even using the same set for Shadar Logoth and Tar Valon, you know, the run down cursed place and the thriving city of the Aes Sedai), and the plot is at best loosely inspired. At best. What is the point of calling it an adaptation?
Ep 4 is the "good part". It's Ep 5 that consigns this show to eternal infamy.
I suspected as much... ☹️
@@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS I do hope you continue on with the book series though, there is so much that I am choking back saying because I do not want to spoil it for you, that first read through of a great series is a precious thing.
Also, when you ask where the money for the show went, they had a rather large wig budget . . . . .
@@gadflyfiction Oh Gadfly...
At the 1:01 mark Sword and Pen mentions the weaves that Logain is not supposed to see. In the book, it is eventually established that Logain can see Ta'veren, and the show, in wishing us to have more suspense regarding who will eventually prove to be the Dragon Reborn, led me to think that rather than just Rand, Nat and Perrin being Ta'veren, perhaps they intend Nynaeve to be one as well. This would explain what Logain sees, as this is a 'Talent' related to the Power, but not of the Power.
That said, I very much doubt the show will explore that with any consistency, but is does both explain what Logain sees and will be much more meaningful when he finally sees Rand as he is marched through Camelyn and realises that man will shake the world. This is why, we later learn, Logain laughs as he is marched, a prisoner, through the streets of Camelyn.
Yes, Logain is the best part of the show by magnitudes. A meme in the community is that Logain is the patron saint of stolen Glory and undeveloped characters and the show starts off by treating him with astonishing respect and importance. It showed how devastating the Dragon could be, how dangerous false faith is, and how important the Aes Sedai's job is in controlling them... while also foreshadowing by the rapid increase in false Dragons, as if the Wheel that Weaves the Pattern of reality is preparing for something...
And the show, here, did great work building the foundation for that. But it flubs it hard and fast.
Also, you touched on a plot note for later, where the aes sedai inadvertently make things worse in their quest to protect the world from itself. Excellent foresight.
31:39 this whole story is literally mistborn lmao
I love how your manic energy as you go on echoes my feelings when thinking about the episodes :D
Comments from a big book fan (no spoilers):
- A personal opinion moment: it feels so weird to me that some people see anything romantic between Perrin and Egwene, I really can't see it at all; he literally says in the book that he loves her like a sister and that's absolutely how it always read to me
- The Tinkers without Elyas loses the point of those scenes (for Perrin's part anyway). Having no counterpoint to the Way of the Leaf makes it feel like an exposition dump
- Logain (despite the actor being about twenty years older than the character, seriously how is this guy alive) made this the best episode so far as I truly enjoyed his scene at the start. He was so compelling that I was like, let's follow this guy's story!
- Not a part of this episode but it just struck me: there is no reason for show-only watchers to properly understand why being the Dragon Reborn is terrifying. The villagers make it sound like an inconvenience
- Adding religion, great job *unapologetic eyeroll*
- Logain planning to get captured to weaken the Aes Sedai so the army can clean up fixes why they appeared but not why the Warders had no scouts out
- The money went on location scouting, I mean, all those panoramic shots (of totally different landscapes despite the characters being in the same area)
- I was confused in the scene where Kerene's Warder runs in for revenge: Logain is trying to break out of his shield yet Stepin's axes break on it, so is it physical then? Changes from the book whatever, I still need to know the rules! Same as why Nynaeve's Healing caused light and her braid to undo dramatically (also she's Healing without looking but I guess that's another 'necessary change')
- As far as I recall, Ny hasn't ever channeled before in the show but was clearly on the cusp, so if they're following their own rules, all the sisters should've been on her, likely offering to train her. I guess they don't care? ...Another necessary change?
Loving the longer content and that your taking your time to look at the story. Always good to have more people reading Wheel of Time!
I'm certainly enjoying the books, so far. The show?..... 🫣
Dead on. I have always said "cut what you must for time, add only what must be added to cover for the cuts" it is not rocket science.
As for the travelling people and Aram in specific, we will see their philosophy put to the test and Aram has a story arc that runs to near the end of the series. And the backstory for the traveling people has some very interesting takes and where they came from. You learn it in one of the most interesting chapters in the early books.
The reason logain can see the weaves is because they needed him to be in awe of nynaeve and so he was. I doubt they ever even considered that it would break continuity. This inconsistency happens a lot. I don’t know what the budget of this show is but it’s produced by the same people that did rings of power. Rings of power is the first billion dollar show yet it’s got the quality of movies individuals make for a few hundred grand. It almost makes me wonder if they’re using these to launder money. It’s not just paramount. Look at the obi wan series. They had a sequence where several grown men chase a 10 yr old leia around like Benny hill and can’t catch her. At one point she ducks under a tree and a guy is like oh no what do I do now. Then there’s a laser gate that obi wan can’t get over but they have a wide shot that clearly shows he could just walk around it. It really is baffling how they can spend so much and produce so little.
Ugh, Show Liandrin is such a bastardisation... wait, that's _every_ character in this show... my apologies. xD
Well, what are you expecting to see next episode? I'm curious to know what your intuition is predicting.
She's admittedly not the worst
@@galetempus1979 Oh she's not the worst (that would be... actually the worst is difficult to gauge, collectively the Emond's Field Five are all the worst... though Moron annoys me the most), I just really hate how I found Book Liandrin more sinister and creepy while this Liandrin lacks everything that made me uneasy about Book Liandrin. She's both more in-your-face and yet more of a wet lettuce with the pitiful attempts at making her "sympathetic".
9:50 We believe that Elias will be introduced in season 2 as some of the previews suggest. Unless they combine Hopper and Elias into one character. Sometimes they just have to do things because of budget and right now Amazon is on their production companies about budgets.
30:31
"He's not the messiah he's a very naughty boy!"
So, I recently bought the first book Robert Jordan ever wrote (which never got published until recently, due to circumstances, by the way), and in it I found a quote that should have been read by the writers of the show. For context, it's about a woman from another world who just arrived and was send to a slavemaster even though the main character said she wouldn't be.
"She's learning the rules of existence, Wulfgar, the rules that a child picks up as it grows. She wasn't born here, and the rules she learned aren't the rules here. I don't think she really believes that violence can touch her. She's learning the one lesson she must learn if she's to survive. She cannot live in this world using the rules of the world she's left."
What's the name of that book, I might need it.
@@iforgot6088Warrior of the Altaii.
After the Great Hunt you'll understand why the fade wasn't too eager to attack Matt.
The use of the Red vs Blue clip... genius! All the memes are gold!
Thanks. Red VS Blue is basically one giant meme, so you can't go wrong. 😊
So in the WOT world some people, (usual channelers but not always), have abilities that allow them to see things, case in point Min. Logan is one of these, so he can see Nynaeve's power, but not her weaves. Which is not something the show explained so, bad on them! lol @@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS
@davetheblade oh thank you for that explanation. It'll help my critiquing, since I'm not at any part in the book where it is explained.
The only person they show with an ability like that right now is Min. They don't show or talk about this specific power until book 2@@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS
@@davetheblade ah, I see.
Regarding the suggestion at about 42:15, handling Liandrin, by having Lan explain, is not too far from what happened in the books. Lan is talking to Perrin about the wolf-issue, and Perrin says he knows about the Red Ajah, and Lan corrects him, saying what he has heard is mostly wrong, and that the Red Ajah are fighting the Dark One in their own way.
The Red Ajah, the Aes Sedai in general and the Whitecloaks are far more nuanced in the books.
The Whitecloaks in the books are portrayed as deeply misguided people, leaving more harm in their wake, but that does no make them evil villains and there is a fair share of just, honorable people among them. Pedron Niall is actually a tragic figure! But, I guess, it's too outdated view, and making them one-dimensional depraved bastards are more modern.
I can understand how, in the days where tv is as intellectually deep as a thimble, they've taken an extremely deep book series and turned it into girl boss identity politics. I knew we were screwed when the prologue to the pilot had Morraine focus on the men corrupting the male source of the power and not the Dark One.
Man, your observations are SO damn spot on. The character inconsistency between Mat and Rand carried from Ep 3 through Ep 4. It also wasn't clear when Mat was acting as himself vs under the influence of the dagger so he just seemed super inconsistent as a character. They needed to use an audio cue like LotR whenever the ring tempted Frodo, it would have given the dagger more prominence and would have made Mat's character under its influence more of a plot point.
My issues with the book versus the movie moments were the "Wait, what?" moments. I completely enjoyed the books, that may have colored it; I admit that. But constantly asking, "Wait, what?" pulled me out of it.
So much in this show is just sloppy. Any sloppiness is gonna pull folks out of it.
@@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS This is spoiler free, however Mat and Perrin become my most loved characters. In Mat's "defense" he is The Fool, as in the tarot card. I think the show kind of (and I mean that loosely) encapsulates that but the book does a better job. As you've read this far, the show clearly portrays him as some sort of conniving thief, but, in the source material, he's more of a ne'er do well that comes across circumstance.
The Aes Sedai camp scene is an amalgam of multiple chapters that come much later, combined with some implied actions that happen off screen (in the books), and adds scenes that never happen to foreshadow events that will happen later - presumably because they’re going to cut the original foreshadowing scenes.
Everything in that scene comes from later books, but does happen in this chronological order. This is more obvious in later books, but each chapter is written from a different character’s perspective, and you hear Liandrin and others summarize the Logain capture in a much later book, even though his capture was more or less contemporaneous with Moiraine in the Two Rivers. Nynaeve and Moiraine weren’t there at all. Nynaeve’s super healing powers is foreshadowing, which shows up more obviously in later books.
Perrin is capable of violence but doesn’t want to is foreshadowing. Perrin killing his wife is also foreshadowing, though I don’t like how they did it (circa book 6-9). Each of the main characters goes through their own Heroes Journey, so assume that’s how they’ll progress.
In the books Nynaeve has used the one power a lot of times during her time as a Wisdom. She is a so called "Wilder", so this would not be her first time touching the source. What women can see of other women channeling(after they become adept at channeling themselves) is "an aura", and the brightness of it reflects how much power that is being channeled. Women can also sense when other women are channeling and where, even if they can't see them. But as you said, not any of this is really made clear to people not familiar with the books. They are literally EVERYWHERE when it comes to establishing foundational rules of the world.
I believe I've heard(read) that they had massive production problems due to covid which may explain the lack of extras and shooting. The second season seems better by a mile production-wise, although they've deviated a lot lore-wise.
I agree with pretty much all of the criticism here. Something that nagged at me I haven't seen in the other comments is Moiriane's bizarre "I can't tell if Logain is stronger than Nynaeve" line. It's one of those things I can excuse in the context of the series, i.e. she wouldn't be able to gauge exactly how strong Logain is, but I *know* why the writers are doing it; it's because they want to impress upon the viewer just how mega-strong in the Power Nynaeve is with a dash of the Women Good and Strong Men Weak and Bad theme they have going. But, like....Logain -is- monstrously powerful. It's why he gathered followers and he earnestly believed he was the Dragon Reborn. He's (word of god) in the second-highest tier of male channeler strength. Nynaeve is a remarkably strong channeler, among the strongest the white tower has seen in centuries, but Logain is almost a *dozen* strength tiers above her, that's not "hard to tell".
As someone who loves the book dearly . the moment I saw how they aged up the characters I check out ,
Nothing I’ve heard gives me any want to try again .
I'm so glad you talked about the Butterfly Effect when it comes to those adaptations, although i call it the Snowball Effect. This is EXACTLY what i've been trying to explain about Game Of Thrones for YEARS. The problem wasn't the ending, it was the fact that many things needed to get to that ending never happened or happened differently. All the changes they made throughout the show snowballed to a point that they lost control of the story that was laid out by GRR Martin. Particularly when it comes to Daenerys they cut out several very important characters from her journey.
I’m looking forward to seeing your reaction for episode 5 (I recommend you bring some caffeine to that viewing) almost as much as I am to see your thoughts on the season finally.
I had gripes with this whole episode, but my biggest gripe was the Aes Sedai camp section because the whole set-up made no sense (besides being an addition that was not in the books).
They have captured the (apparently) most powerful male channeler of the time, who has built an army, conquered kingdoms and has a devoted following who will definitely want to break him free. It takes two Aes Sedai at all times to maintain the shield on him. Do you:
a) Place his cage in the centre of the camp so that, if needed, other Aes Sedai can quickly come to assist the two shielders; make your camp in an area with good all-round visibility so that you can't be approached unnoticed; and put out pickets to provide early warning? or
b) Set up camp in a gully in woodland where you can't see anybody approaching until it is far too late; not put out pickets to give early warning; and move the cage into a cave some distance away from the camp with just the two shielders inside, nobody nearby to call for help if needed, or warn the Aes Sedai inside if enemies approach?
Not to forget - how on earth did they get the cage into that cave? From what I can remember, the entrance looked to be narrower than the cage. And how did they even get it there from the camp? It must weigh close to a ton, but they apparently got it off the wagon, carried it a couple of hundred yards through woodland and uphill.
I think Nynaeve created light as a byproduct of her weave because it was a raw explosion. So he sees the light and not the weaves.
Love the muppet use!
Also when the show said they are hundreds of miles from the Tower they massively understaed it. The are almost fifteen hundred *miles* from the Tower. They would've travelled 77 kilometres, on foot or horseback, per day to arrive at the tower in the month. The writers thought through their plot so little that they had their characters run nearly two marathons every day for a month to get where they need to be.
02:18 - One change / addition that I consider really good is in the Foundation series on Apple TV (based on Asimov's books of the same name). The show created the concept of a ruling trifecta for the empire - the same individual, cloned, at 3 ages - young (Dawn), mature (Day) and elderly (Dusk), to ensure stability and continuity of rule.
It was really effective in conveying the essence of the source material because the title character in the first book - Hari Seldon - thought that the empire was failing due to stagnation, bureaucracy and lack of innovation. Having the empire being ruled by the same person (albeit at different ages) symbolized this. In the show, Hari Seldon (played by Jared Harris) says to the emperor Day - "You offer nothing new, just a younger grape, from the same vine, destined for the same old bottle"
Of course, this change also helps to keep the same actors through the duration of the series, since the Foundation books spans thousands of years :)
I have had so many recommendations for Foundation. I really an curious to check it out, as a unique adaptation. But I also don't have Apple TV. 😐
@@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS I got AppleTV solely because of the Foundation series - subscribing only for the duration of Season 1. I have mixed feelings about the adaptation - I was really happy to have a visual experience of the Foundation worlds and themes, but there are some changes to the source material that I thought didn't help the story (nothing as radical as with WoT, though). Have not yet watched Season 2. But the books are and always will be awesome :)
The traveling people are kinda boring, true. Their backstory is everything but that, though. You get that somewhere around book 5, I think. And it actually blew me away when I read that. It all tied so neatly together and that was one of the strongest parts of Jordan's writing. His attention to detail really made it believable for the Pattern to exist, especially when you see all the butterfly effects that are present throughout the books.
Unfortunately, the writers of the show are not nearly smart enough to think through all the changes they make and how they'll affect the things later on, but still arrogant enough to make those changes.
Elyas is important because not only does he help Perrin and Egwene survive, he tells Perrin what being a wolfbother is and why he should embrace it, which he does later in the series. Cutting him out was a huge mistake. Also, you're absolutely right, adaptations shouldn't add anything unless absolutely necessary, especially when adapting a book series 14000 pages long lol,
I like your idea of two Dragons, but as you will get further along in the series, especially The Shadow Rising (Book 4) you will see how the Dragon is a "destructive" Messiah; the prophecies say he will save the world, but in the process create huge changes, a lot of death and destruction. What makes the books so interesting, is that Robert Jordan found a way to both play "The Chosen One" trope straight and subvert it.
I see what you're saying but you're terminology is off anti Christ means false christ. You can't be christ and false christ at the same time.
He’s basically Paul Atreides.
@@gregorde No Paul was a false messiah based on alive.
In the books, there are prophecies about the Dragon. However, knowledge of the prophecies is fragmented and they can be interpreted in different ways. Some male channelers who think they are the Dragon have tried to fulfill the prophecies, at least the parts they know about. There are also people who use the prophecies for personal and political gain. But certain people have more knowledge of the prophecies than others. Moiraine knows whether or not a Dragon is false based on if they fulfill specific conditions of the prophecies.
In the books, Moiraine knew exactly that is was a boy, who was borned at a certain time near Dragonmount. Then at some point, she came across the fact, that there was Illian unit operating near Dragonmount at the known time, and that the certain officer soon got retired and returned to his homeland. With a toddler. Then she simply waited until the child will be old enough to visit.
(No Spoilers in this comment) Finished the whole video... You're asking a lot of great questions. I smile whenever you're making guesses or wondering about the details of an event. All I will say is, keep reading! :D
On the topic of the show, strap in because it doesn't miraculously start addressing the problems you've been pointing out.
Love this series of analysis, especially having read more than half the series so far. Its like learning it all over again, and seeing how wonderfully Robert Jordan crafted his interwoven characters.
The worst part of this episode is how taking Logain's power away, vice what really happens when someone is gentled, will have disastrous consequences to how things play out in the future books. The shift of such a fundamental element is not something you can fix as the series progresses, and is another in a long line of broken elements that have huge future implications. This show takes critical things way too lightly, changing them as the writers wish and further shows how they have either no concept of, nor have maybe ever read the books. Thanks for slogging through this for us; you have more courage and tenacity than I.
Very insightful and honest reviews in this WoT review series. I've only read the first half of the first book, a free promotion that was trying to entice the reader to purchase the full book when it was initially published. This show's problems go far beyond being a poor adaptation; it is internally inconsistent, poorly constructed, has badly developed characters, the worldbuilding is an absolute travesty, and it fails to hold the viewer's attention. I've enjoyed all of your comments about the show, and the interjections from other media are excellently edited and well chosen. I definitely wasn't expecting a cut to Red vs. Blue! Please continue with the longer videos.
The issue with the scene with all the warders and the other stuff is that it happens organically in future books. Didn’t need to happen in S1. They cut out so much important stuff to include these scenes that break the plot and character motivations and change the story arc (no Caemlyn).
Dear God I have blanked out the Ep 4 battle. Thanks for the reminder. I cut it down to the bare bones and I think it makes more logical sense in the fan edit. On to your Ep 5 review!
The pulling the power out looks fine, but causes inconsistencies later. It's called gentling for men early on, but later you learn the real term is severing. It's not pulling the power out, it's a sharp cutting off of the power like cutting a branch off a tree or something which is important.
I agree. I have several big problems with the TV show and one of them is making Thom Merrilyn a minor side character. He's... if not a major character in the book then at least a medium character and one that is important in several ways, most notably training the boys and being a source of info on the wider world. All that is totally gone in the show. Siiiiiggghhh...
And yes, the Dark Shadow is much more of a character in the book. At first I was wary of the dream passages but as time went on I liked them more, I understood what Jordan was doing with them. The show dumps all of that, or most of it, for the cause of saving time.
I absolutely love your breakdowns. Thank you for doing them.
I legit laughed out load at the RvB reference. Good job.
I'd also like to say that one quote from Elyas was one of my favorite lines in that first book. Really powerful scene for me.
I had no clue why they didn't introduce Thom at the same point as the book. I know there are a lot of characters to develop but that is easily fixed. ADD MORE EPISODES. Amazon could afford more. Maybe they should have spent a billion on Wheel instead of that garbage rings show. You nailed every mistake they made with Thom. In the show, why would he risk his life? In the book, they traveled for 20 to 30 days with Thom. It was about 650 miles to Whitebridge. The book clearly develops why he took a fatherly role with the kids and why he was willing to sacrifice his life because he failed his nephew. They add trash and cut a PIVOTAL plot. They could have completely removed the traveling folk and spent a few minutes with Elyas. Maybe a brief conversation with Elyas about a caravan passing in the distance. Then a whole lot more time with Thom.
You forget that Rings of Power is the pet project of the boss, this show was not. The producers asked for a two hour pilot and ten episodes but were only given eight and no pilot. I will not defend how they used the time given to them but I will argue that if you only have eight episodes then probably you shouldn't spent more then one in Emonds field. But then the problem is that you have to introduce 9(!) important characters in the first episode (the "Emonds Field 5", Moirane, Lan, Tam Al Thor and Padan Fain). That is already far too much for 60 minutes (rule of thumb is 5-6 characters). Thom is the only character whose introduction can be reasonably delayed and he does get the time to do a proper introduction in episode 3.
The algorithm says that viewership drops of after 8 episodes, so Amazon won't both trying even if the show will suffer as a result. They don't seem to understand that viewers stop watching shows because of their poor quality, not because there's too many episodes.
From what I've heard, I believe there was some scheduling/availability issues with the actor they hired to play Thom meaning he wasn't available for filming the earlier episodes. I'm guessing had he been available he would've been present from episode 1 to his final appearance in the season.
@@Shaz1993xoxo then maybe they should've hired an actor who was actually available
You don't change a story or a shooting schedule for an unknown actor. Most people haven't seen anything he was in before Wheel so I don't believe that rumor. If true, it shows how little they actually care about the source material.
I love your candor, you are criticizing without becoming a complainer, which can go old quite quickly.
Not being complainy can get get old, too. 😅 I have to admit that there are quite a few writing blunders that I'm just letting slide.... but the more I let slide, the more annoyed I get. 😄
I'm a big fan of long videos, but if you want to keep things shorter, I'll cope. As long as you say all you want to say, I've got nothing to complain about. Speaking of long, this comment is long. I'd recommend bringing a sandwich!
Anyway, as for some stuff about this episode, I personally didn't get a romantic vibe between Perrin and Egwene, but I could just be blind to stuff like that. What I did like about Egwene in the books at this point was how much she wanted to try everything; she was excited to learn she could potentially Channel, she started to wear her hair down even though she just came of age to braid it, a sign of adulthood for a woman in the Two Rivers, and when she and Perrin meet Elyas, she asks him if she can learn to talk to wolves. She's a naive young lady experiencing the world for the first time, and she is hungry!
With Perrin, I get the impression that the show gave him a wife for him to kill in episode one because they thought it would better set up his conflict with the axe that Elyas helped him out with in the scenes you described, which is a shame. A talented actor could have really sold the disgust and agony that Perrin felt in considering to kill Egwene to spare her from a worse fate.
With Thom's fate in the book, if I'm remembering correctly, Moraine's group here's some rumours about what happened to him after he fought the Fade in Whitebridge when they get there.
The stuff with Moraine's group in the show really got on my nerves, too, because finding the Dragon Reborn is basically her entire reason for living, and the most she does about it at this point is cry about losing them. It's almost as if tracking isn't a thing that people can do in this show!
The show also doesn't explain the magic very well at all. The only thing we have to go on about why men go crazy when they can Channel is that line from the first Prologue from Linandrin, that men make the One Power filthy when they touch it. I believe even at this point in the books, it's common knowledge that the half of the One Power that men use, Saidin, got tainted by the Dark One and his influence is what causes male Channelers to go coo-coo.
Related to that, the concern that Alanna, Moraine's Green Ajah friend in the show, made about any man they capture potentially being the Dragon Reborn, could have been used so much. It could be the reason they have to get him to Tar Valon before Gentling him; so all the Aes Sedai can weigh in on his Dragon Candidacy before doing irreversible damage. It could also prompt the show to reveal why Moraine is so certain it's one of the kids from Emond's Field, because as far as I remember, the only indication the show's given that she knows it's one of them is a throw away line in the intro about rumours of four Tav'eren in the Two Rivers. At the very least, it could get us to question Moraine and her legitimacy about all this stuff. Granted, the book hadn't revealed how Moraine knew to search the Two Rivers at this point, either, but she also hadn't revealed she was searching for the Dragon Reborn at that point.
The stuff with Moraine's group being some of the best content in this show had me thinking that they might have been able to make something good, or at least better, if they had tried to make their own, original work rather than adapting something else. I found this episode to be the best one of the season, so it's not much of a hope, but at the very least, it would have been less aggravating to see them mess up so much if they weren't tying their mistakes to my favorite book series.
And, finally, a little thing I enjoyed a lot. Linandrin wanted to know where Nynave is from, but she didn't want to ask out right. So, she says "I can't place your accent" instead. Moraine did something similar while fishing for Nynave's age in episode 1.
Note: logain is way more powerful than egwene
yes he is level +2 (yes Robert Jordan has an official scale system). Where Rand is +1, Egweene is 18 levels LOWER than Logain. Morraine is 26 levels behind.
@@tiagodagostini I've read the wiki but never actually counted the difference 14 levels is larger than I thought, regardless the show is ridiculous in this regard
Logain was on a ladder, there's behind the scenes footage of it. The swinging must have been added as an aftereffect.
Loving the videos, no problem with them being longer. Read the books years ago, could not stomach watching the show after the first few commercials for it.
"They're not people they're hippies"
Corruption lol. Is where the money disappeared.
So a couple last things, I understand where you're coming from with the scene of Logan being gentled and him hanging in the air, I think what they were trying to show is that lifting someone with the one power isn't like raising them up on something solid, but more like holding them with air, but I get the complaint.
As for why none of the other women could feel that Nynaeve can channel, (and this is my personal theory). So at some point in the books they revealed that Nynaeve had started channeling a long time ago, but didn't realize that's what she was doing, it's how she healed Egewene when she was young. Nynaeve now has a block, she can only channel under specific circumstances, so I think (my theory), is that this block is preventing other Aei Sedai from gauging her ability, unless she's actively channeling.
Your point about Logain being the real chosen one and flipping the trope reminds me of this one series I read. The first book is the heroes creating the team that will go into the mountain to free the people or defeat the villain or both. We spend the whole book getting to know them, their fears, their strengths and their struggles to form the hero team. Typical generic almost first book of a trilogy. They go into the mountain and all but one are killed or twisted to the dark side by the evil queen.
Reading this back it isn't sounding as shocking as it was for me when I read first it. I was devastated. I loved these characters. I felt I couldn't go on to the second book where we would have to do it all over again, this time with the second best for the team. Which was how the remaining hero felt too.
I loved the twist but hated it at the same time.
“Like a big cat.” “You mean like a Puma” “yeah man, a Puma”.
Just for the RVB clip you get a like.
i am loving this series soooo much!!!!!!! Just to be clear not the amazon series but your comparison series lol
I so enjoy listening to these reviews because they are honest. Most other reviewer seem to have an agenda as they are supportive of the show no matter how far a field the writers go from the source material or they is the other side that are fans of the book and nothing the show does is worth watching.
I have read the entire series and my biggest concern, which is touched on here, is the lack of explaining the lore and magic system. To viewers who haven't read the book this must be very confusing. The dark figures over Logain's shoulders are representative of the madness that afflicts men due to the taint left by the DarkOne when they use the one power. It is why men using the power are dangerous and need to be gentled because most can not resist the influence and go mad. It does speaks to Logain's "character" or "strength of will" that he is able to do this.
It will be interesting to see how Amazon incorporates this in the future....because this becomes a very big deal in the books when the character revealed to be the Dragon Reborn has to battle this as he (or she) grows in the power.
You touched on the Aes Sedai and how they can feel the power in other women and sense those who can or will touch the one power. This is the bedrock of the Aes Sedai societal hierarchy. They should have had Morraine explain this to Egwene and Nynaeve at some time early in their journey to help the viewer understand this. Your status in the tower is almost exclusively based on how strong you are with the one power and each sister can "feel" where they belong in this hierarchical structure. This would help the viewer understand that why one Aes Sedai seems to take charge over a group when they are all together as in this episose.
The butterfly effect you speak of is so spot on. Get ready for more of this. Having watched the entire first season I often do not see how they will reconcile what they have changed with what "needs to happen" to get to a place in the future where the story has to get to. Relationships in book 8 are being destroyed by changes in season 1 of the show. I guess Amazon can just go with the writing is so inconsistent that we don't have to explain how we made these leaps and who cares if what they do in the future seasons lines up with what they have written in season 1.
This is the the real problem with this adaptation. It isn't really an adaptation but a poorly written re-write of the story supposedly to draw in a more diverse audience.
As you can tell I am not enamored with the series so far but fear this is the only opportunity I will have to see these characters "come to life" so I will continue to watch it for now with the hope they will try a little harder to be more true to the characters, the lore, and the magic in the source material even if they are going to change the story itself.
Ok I had to jump back and leave a comment her as your videos gave me the push to watch the show again. (Ugh). The wandering woman Ila says to Perrin “Has your life been better or worse since you picked up that axe?” I found myself yelling at the screen “If he hadn’t he would no longer have his life!!!” Lol
Bahaha! That's so true!
Good to see you here, again, TikiDale 😉 You've stuck with me across 3 channels. That's worth a big flower and thank you, from me... but I couldn't find a flower emoji fast enough, so here's a fruity drink, instead 🍹
Oh... and Nyneave touching the power wasn't her touching it the first time. She healed a bunch of people with it without knowing she was using the One Power. Moraine was referring to Eg touching it for the first time.
I don't remember the show well enough to say if they made that clear or not.
Your candidness in this video is awesome.
Great critique again. Hope you continue. It's important for fantasy adaptations to be handled well, and called out when they're not.
Yay, I'm glad you chose the long version. With you on recalling names. I assume a lot of the two hour version was made up of the chemistry lecture.
I'm really liking these videos - pointing out the flaws AND saying how to fix them is really valuable for any story-teller 😊 yet, I'm not sure I agree with the "Logain should have said he'd get captured by Aes Sedai to the Ghealdan armies", since no man who can channel would ever willingly get himself so close to be gentled. Even if it was just a backdoor for just in case he gets captured, I still don't think it would work...
One minute and six seconds before I genuinely laughed out loud.
Is that too long?
Me too
@@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS Not at all and it's happened more since then. It's just that LOL is something many people say and never actually do (when they say LOL).
@@xYalahx 😅😋 thank you
The "Way of the Leaf" that the Travelling people live by, as well as the history of the Traveling people is actually a fairly significant... plot point? or piece of lore that really defines a pretty large portion of the world's setting. I think the reason the Travelling people are able to survive in the world is because they normally don't have anything of value, and everyone pretty much knows that, and that they are harmless. The Travelling People can also go to some particular areas to be safe if they ever feel like they are in danger and actually tend to avoid large population centers like cities because they know they can be harmed there.
For magic, it's actually easier to hold a shield than it is to forcefully cut someone off once they are actively holding magic. For a particular Man, it might take five women to collectively cut this man off while he is channeling, but it would only require two women to hold the shield on the same man once he's been shielded. Also, as a general rule of power scaling in WoT, Men, on average, tend to be much stronger than women in magic, and men and women tend to be stronger in different elements of magic too. Men tend to have natural affinities towards Fire and Earth, and women tend to have more affinity towards Air and Water, and they share an equal affinity towards Spirit, but you will find some women who might have a natural affinity towards Fire and/or Earth and the opposite for men, and sometimes you will find people who seem to be fairly even across the board in their affinities.
Also, while women and men cannot see the magic of the other sex, men have a neat little advantage in that they can sort of ... feel... when women are channeling nearby, but it's nothing more than a sense that there is channeling happening, as they get goosebumps as the only real indicator.
The Aes Sedai actually have alot of debates with eachother about whether they should Gentle the Dragon, with many thinking they need to, while others thinking they need to keep him "leashed" or under control long enough to win the War before gentling him. They are actually extremely arrogant and self-important, to the point that they think they alone will be the reason to defeat the Dark One.
Moraine and a couple other people are pretty much the strongest Aes Sedai currently living, and are stronger by a decent margin, but Egwene and a couple other characters who havent shown up yet will be on a new level of strength beyond anything seen by Aes Sedai in... an extremely long time. Like the gap in power between Egwene and Moraine is even greater than Moraine and others below her, but then the power gap between Nyneave and Egwene is even greater than that. Egwene has a power that is downright almost legendary by Aes Sedai standards and Nyneave is pretty much Mythic and almost inhuman in comparison... and yet alot of men are stronger than either of them in magic.
Another great review. Lookong forwars to your next... Sorry in advance, its downhill from here, if you can even call this a "hill"...
That wasn't the first time nyneave had touched the power so by the logic of they can feel a person the first time they touch the power, it wasn't her first time. She's done it during healing, and whenever she's listening to the wind, she is just unaware
They did not know how powerful Nyn was because she is a Wilder who has been doing for years who has not channeling in front of a load of Aes Sedai . And as you go futher into the books Logain can tell who a ta'vereain is and that is what he saw
I really loved how you highlighted your difficulty to pronounce "Anna Karenina"...
Seriously, though, Logain swinging is not that bad considering he is being lifted an buffeted with the Power by several people at once and we cannot expect 100% coordination in the context.
What is bad is that he should not be lifted at all, since the act of "gentling" is more of a metaphysical act that does not need to affect your body (least not directly) and there should not be any "outflow" of Power from Logain because The Power exists in a metaphysical place outside of him (and anybody else at that) and what is being destroyed is his ability to reach that "place" and "channel" some of the Power out for his own use.
9:12. Elias is the older man, teaching Perrin what masculinity is about. Something our modern age had forgotten....
The Butterfly Effect comment reminded me of a quote (tweet, i think) from ol' Rafe himself:
"I have Sarah Nakamura (our incredible WoT goddess) talk me through the long-term ramifications of any changes so that we know what's going to happen. Sometimes to drive her crazy I will send a casual email that's just like - 'Hey, can you work up a long-term ramifications list for if we kill Thom?', And just keep going like it's a totally normal day as she collapses as a human being. Then tell her we're not going to kill him. I think it helps keep her on her toes, but she probably disagrees, haha."
Even with my best interpretation of that statement, it seems the show could have used more than one "lore expert". Which is wild, because Brandon Sanderson was right there, happy to help.
Well, it feels like they didn't even think about it themselves and just handed it off. And well... brandon sanderson said, the advised them against perrin having a wife and killing her and they ignored him, so I question how much they listened to their 'lore expert' as well.
That comment from Rafe tells us quite a bit about who he is as a person.
He's a bully. He's aware of it. He thinks it's funny. He's not at all ashamed of it.
@@Nyet-Zdyes
I believe so too, even though i expect some light hazing between friends and family. Although, if Rafe and Sarah were close friends, it'd still be gross to see for the production, essentially wasting studio resources.
Still, all that could have been fine, imo, if the final product was worthwhile..
@@dudeguy8686 In regards to Rafe... leaving one of his "employees" ALL DAY... to the point of "collapsing as a human being"... that's nowhere near "light hazing".
It's totally "toxic".
I'm also not inclined to think that hazing is ever allowable between a boss and a subordinate, unless maybe they have some kind of relationship away from work.
I strongly suspect he's doing it from a passive-aggressive personality, using it either as revenge for her objections to what he's doing to the story, or to PREVENT her from objecting to something.
@@Nyet-Zdyes I strongly agree, and didn't mean to imply that it was in fact "light hazing". That's just my largest benefit-of-the-doubt case i could give to what they might believe it was. That may have been an incredibly hyperbolic statement, while their actual working relationship was something we'd find more reasonable. Maybe.
Yet even with that best-case scenario (that's unlikely true), seeing the outcome of the show, those "ramifications lists" were either woefully lacking or outright ignored many times over.
Yes, WHERE did the money go?
I know LoTR was perhaps an outlier, but they accopmlished so much on a smaller budget and I have questions on why shows like this and Rings of Power, with extravagant budgets, are so visually underwhelming.
diversity training?
Even more than visually, why are they not hiring good writers & editors?! I mean, if the story was awesome, 90% of people would not care about a bit worse cgi. (And the fact that neither is good, really raises the question about the money)
Yeah absolutely no way that the Warders wouldn't know about a following army at least a day before it got there. They're all pretty much master tracker / wilderness survival / warriors. They'd be taking turns scouting miles around camp, and making sure to find places with good sight lines so they'd know about any major threat within 10-20 miles. Yes, they'd see Logain as the major threat and prioritize that, but we see in the books multiple times that when you get a group of Warders together, they work as a group and delegate. They wouldn't neglect scouting entirely.
With respect to the Aes Sedai not sensing that Nyneave was about to channel for the first time - this is because she has been unwittingly channeling for years when treating sick and injured people in Emond's Field. But I think it might be too generous to credit the writers/show runners with taking this into account given how sloppy they are otherwise.