One of the most clear, precise and accurate descriptions of a Balanced transfer of signal. Prepared. or unprepared, Paul you have a great ability to explain concepts in a plain and understandable way, brilliant!
@@Paulmcgowanpsaudio You should also include the differences in level, dB or voltage And, a balanced cable has tree leads, not four. Often, not always, it also has a shield, sometimes the shield is used as ground. Paul, too many youtubers explain half the truth. You of all should step up and explain the whole thing. Thanks for your videos! 👍
@@mathiasjohannesson9833 Some balanced cables are 4 wire. 1 lead connects to the shells of the connectors to chassis [earth] ground. Another lead connects pin 1 [signal ground] which is produced by the power supply. Pins 2 & 3 are connected pin to pin. Chassis ground and signal ground should never be connected.
One of those simple but brilliant ideas in electronic engineering that makes so much sense when you see the logic behind it in terms of noise rejection.
A balanced input does pay attention to noise. The differential [+ and-] inputs to an op amp invert the noise putting it out of phase with itself thus canceling it and it inverts the - input audio to put in phase with the + input audio. The result is clean audio. Another advantage of balanced audio is it is typically +4 where unbalanced is -10
Great! Sometimes it's the simple practical examples we learn from rather than the stuffing of information into one's head at a time when there's no question being asked.
True balanced means there is no conversion from balanced to single ended throughout the signal chain. This can also include power amps. Signals are symmetrical with respect to ground. Ground currents (resulting in common mode signals) is not part of the signal as with the shield on RCA. Its quite easy to reduce amplified noise with balanced to below hearing threshold with balanced interfaces, but issues can arrise and distortion introduced with non symmetrical (non indentical/mismatched XLR pin 2 and 3) amplification. Also some differential input stages have mismatched input impedances, skewing the symmetry, thus not all common mode noise will be optimally suppressed. Balanced path that includes some amplification tends to lower second order distortion due to symmetry, but to reduce 3rd order dustortion is more difficult.
Majority of balanced cables even when shielded have GND and shield connected together, even high end ones. So balanced cables are all about differential signal.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge, learning a lot here. I have a question, I have a Focusrite Scarlett Solo and it seems the left output only works if I plug the cable halfway through, I mean, you can hear the sound only if the Tip of the cable touches the negative part of the balanced output of my sound interface. The right output works perfectly with the same cable, so the cable is not the problem; with a TRS cable works well but I think it's because the negative part of the bal output sends the sound through the negative of the cable, I don't understand why it doesn't send the negative also through the TS cable. Hope you can clear my ideas, thank you very much for your help. Greetings from Costa Rica.
Would ve appreciated a bit more background on why true balance is better and why the cheap solution is not capable enough, what audible difference is the result.
Paul, A couple of additional points from the Pro Sound engineering side of things. RCA is generally high impedance on the receiving equipment, so when there is a poor ground connection which is common in RCA cables, induced noise is not shunted to ground but can produce significant noise. RCA terminations are typically 20K to 47 K ohms. Antique crystal microphones were worse with lower voltage signal and termination of 50 to 200 K ohms, refereed to as high impedance microphones. At high impedance source signals, the capacitance of the cable produced huge loss of high frequency on longer cables, and with some dielectric insulators in some cables, the cables themselves were monophonic, so you could hear cables moving or being stepped on. This was called cable rustle. This is now a thing of the past. Balanced audio in the pro gear realm, brought with it a low impedance standard often referred to as Low Z. I presume the PS Audio is utilizing the advantages of this impedance. For microphones the mixers and gear generally terminated the microphones into a load of 200 to 600 ohms. This low impedance shunted high impedance leakage into cables to ground as they produced very little induced voltage. In pro gear the standard signal level for interconnections is much higher than consumer gear. Instead of running signals at -14 to -20 dBu, they call zero VU +4 dBu, so the noise levels picked up may be the same, and taken care of by the balanced signal, the actual signal on the wire is a much higher voltage. The termination for line level is often 20K balanced and 10 K unbalanced. This is lower than most RCA equipment. Most pro gear will clip the signal at over 12 volt peaks as the op amps driving the cable are operated from plus and minus 15 volt supplies. Paul, do you use levels comparable with pro audio gear? Would it drive a good pair of Mackie SRM-450 speakers for example? FYI, I service equipment for a living as an engineering technician. I repair as well as setup and operate it.
Tim Schutte, Actually I was born in the 1950's and was into electronics as transistors took over vacuum tubes. The standard PA mic was a crystal element and high impedance in the days of tube equipment. I made electronics a career, first as a hobby in HS, then into RF in the advanced electronics program of the USN, then during the recession of the '80s, went into consumer electronics and learned VCR's Camcorders, Compact Discs in manufacturer's training courses, and took and passed the Journeyman ISCET Certification exam. I was recruited to work in the Cayman Islands in the 2 way communications shop and was the local radio and TV station's engineer. As the position was temporary (work permit only valid for up to 6 years) I was offered a position at Intel as an R&D technician where I learned lasers, high vacuum plasma systems, etc for producing parts in the sub micron range. This required very precise instrumentation. I'm not a Steven Hawking with new ideas in the advancement of electrical science, however I have the advantage of bleeding industry best practices for high resolution, low noise, low distortion, and precision. Tim, I presume you are younger than I and have had less training and industry experience. Don't be jealous. Try to learn something new everyday. My most recent certification is the EPA 608 certification as I am adding repair of industrial temperature control to my skill set. You either keep current or become obsolete. I copy less from Google than you assume as much of it is pseudo science and incorrect. Knowing the difference requires knowledge of the current state of the art.
With these types of 'duhh' techniques that perfectly solve a problem in a very straight forward and simple way I always get a giggle out of imagining the facepalms of people when someone thinks of it and then goes to explain it to other people. I always imagine them all going "Why the hell didn't I think of that?!". In fact, back in high school our physics professor asked us to think of a way to filter out noise from an analog signal (being transferred by wire) and I distinctly remember the entire class being dumbstruck when the first person to think of it raised their hand and conveyed the solution.
How does the DAC in the Stellar Gain Cell compare with the DAC option on the Moon Neo CD player? I really love dials on such things as the Threshold Fet 10 (which I have lusted over), but it lacks XLR, as do many preamps under $2000 with phono sections. Tracking down a Classé DR-6R has been elusive...
i guess i had it wrong, i though those 3 pin cables had 1 ground and 2 live but only one true signal like: channel A = sound (A*1 or A times 1) channel B = empty (B*-1 or B times minus 1) ground just completes the loop and it would be (A*1)+(B*-1) = sound minus interference. (well that is how i get 3.5mm jacks to get guitar in the PC without noise...) for any one who played with distortion pedals, you would CLEARLY hear what the noise is, other than that, you may have too low noise to notice unless you have a "low noise floor" on your particular system (the hiss) (or shhhhhhhhhhhhh sound) where you could hear it... but a professional high grade system have low noise floor so you hear interference! on the other hand, normal grace systems tends to have enough hiss or shhh or hummm to drown the external interference. 1 example of high noise floor, hearing a hiss at 1 third (30%) of the volume; low noise floor only begins hissing at 80% and higher.
I always had the impression that the balanced connections and cables only have three leads... One ground, one hot and one cold. I have never seen any balanced cable with separate ground and shield (but maybe I was not looking carefully enough). Can you please correct me, if I'm wrong? Thanks!
you have the correct impression, balanced is two audio wires and one grounded shield wire. this topic is riddled with confusion most of the time because it's frankly not well understood by many who wish to discuss it. there are a bunch of technical terms that get used and misused interchangeably. "ground" can be referring to "chassey ground", "earth ground", "audio/signal ground", "shield", or any other point in a circuit that's meant to be a zero volt reference point. but in a given circuit, the audio ground can be tens or even hundreds of volts above or below the chassis/earth ground. this is why it's dangerous to remove the earth prong from a 3-prong electrical cable on, say, a guitar amp. if a hard physical connection isn't connecting the chassey to the earth, the strings of the guitar plugged into the amp could suddenly be hundreds of volts away from the ground you stand on or the microphone you occasionally grab once that ground pin is removed from the amp's power cable. that's how you get zapped.
High great videos, my situation i have an accuphase DP-78 sacd player with balanced xlr outputs but my technics SU-MA10 amplifier from 1991 has no xlr inputs, only rca inputs. Does it make sense to take xlr to rca cables? Or should I go with rca-rca only on the analogue outputs to my amplifier? What would be the difference? Thank you for clarifying.
Paul, thanks for the explanation. Doesn't the quality of the cable/interconnect and its shielding also play a big role in preventing "noise" from creeping in? Why would someone pay thousands for a very high quality RCA terminated cable like a high-end AudioQuest or Cardas cable, when they could eliminate any noise with a balanced cable through the cancellation process and perhaps the balanced cable might cost less depending on brand? Is it safe to say all balanced cables are pretty much noise free, but that the overall quality of the cable and materials used is the primary factor driving the price?
I’m a little confused, in a balanced cable usually there are only 2 carriers and a shield…and only very rarely have I seen the shield tab of the xlr connector actually used, just ground(shield of wire) to pin 1, positive to pin 2 and negative to pin 3, and nothing to the actual “shield” tab of connector. I guess if you had noisy conditions or some inherent hum you could shunt pin 1 to “shield” tab of xlr connector? Also, I have seen reputable cable manufactures that don’t even have a “shield” in the cable, it’s literally just 3 conductors. And last, I’ve noticed another high end cable company that makes their single ended(RCA) cables from balanced cable and only connect the 2 carriers, and leave the shield unused.
No worries. They are somewhat the same. So a balanced interconnect removes anything in common between the two conductors, like hum. In the circuit, it too eliminates anything in common, but here there's little hum to worry about, and instead, there is noise and distortion generated in the circuit. The balanced nature of the circuit topology lowers both generated noise and distortion.
@@octaverecordsanddsdstudios1285 but where does noise and distortion comes from (when talking about the circuit) ? does the circuit also picks unwanted external noise?
technically if your circuit's metal enclosure box is properly grounded, it makes no difference, with one exception, which is if the inputs or outputs are unbalanced, then the circuit's "ground" reference will be connected to the enclosure box, providing an entry point for interference and hum. in a fully balanced system, all connected hardware have the internal circuitry physically isolated from contact with the earth grounded enclosures. so, you can have an "unbalanced" circuit in such a system, and have it be just as immune to interference, provided it's signal input and output points are configured to be isolated from the enclosure and earth ground.
In the true balanced circuit, why doesn’t the inverted signal cancel out the non-inverted signal? Or does the differential input on the receiving end accept both signals because they are different and then reinvert the inverted signal to match the non-inverted signal?
If you were to add them together they would but differential inputs have two inputs-an inverting (out of phase) and a non-inverting (in phase). They are opposite setups such that they only add differential signals and ignore common signals.
A lot of followers and views. Congrats. Your vids pop up in a lot of my searches. I just wish you could answer a question without derailing for once so that the answer is 2 minutes long, instead of taking you 2-3 minutes to figure out where you are.
Great video! Is there a way I can tell if the 1/4" inputs and outs on my mixer are balanced or not? It's an inexpensive mixer (Moukey Mamx3); and the manual doesn't indicate balanced/unbalanced. Each channel has a switch allowing you to choose mono or stereo; since it can support stereo does that mean that if I chose mono I would get a balanced connection with a TRS cable?
Balanced is best especially for MC cartridges. RCA connectors (single ended) use the negitive (-) to ground the signal where's XLR (balanced) use a separate ground and leave the + and - to carry the signal. Also XLR connectors eliminate earth loop and reduce noise significantly.
The RCA connector gets it's name from original company because it was convenient at the time it was designed. They are NOT a great connector for reliable quality contact long term. They all get noisy based on design only. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RCA_connector Great explanation you presented in this video!!! Thank you for your knowledge for folks to understand.
I have a question and could be very silly to ask: Speaking about balanced cables, that noise generated from an external source (like a transformer) is picked up by two hot signals. But at the same time there is ground as well. Can it be got by the ground as well? So how does the receiver side handles this case? I assume ground is not the earth. It is just a reference level, so doesn't noise on the ground signal introduce noise on the final signal in the receiver side? Thanks a lot you is helping me out on this.
it can be picked up by the chassey/shield ground wire as well, yes, but in a balanced interconnect system, the two audio signal wires are not physically connected to the shield, and the audio pair also have the same impedance relationship to said shield wire, which is actually the heart of balanced configurations. the name of the game is that the audio signal exists as a voltage differential, which is simply the electrical pressure difference between the two wires at any given moment. since a voltage is a measure of the difference in charge between two points, it's essentially a subtractive relationship, so the input to an amplifier is listening to the hot wire minus the cold wire. any noise or interference that is equally induced into the wires (ensured by tightly twisting the wires), gets cancelled out when it reaches the input (receiving) end of the connection. like, 1 volt of noise on both signal wires means that at the receiving end where the hot signal wire is subtracted from the cold signal wire, 1-1=0, and thus everything but the actual signal gets rejected from going any further and gets eliminated. this is all based on the notion of shielding discovered by Faraday a long time ago, which is that a circuit can be protected from outside interference if it is enclosed by a metal box or mesh screen of conductive metal or other conductive sheathing, provided that box/mesh is physically connected to earth ground, by which i mean literally the surface of the planet. on a side note, nikola tesla discovered that the surface of the earth behaves identically to a giant ball of copper. so as long as interference hitting the metal box of an amplifier, for example, has a conductive path to ground, it gets blocked from further travel and doesn't get induced into the circuit inside said box. all balanced cabling and interconnects are simply an extension of this principle.
I bought headphones with 1/4 in connectors. However, my dac also has xlr. Would there be noticeable benefit to using an adapter to xlr? Clearly, I cannot achieve true balance because the splitter to the headphones would be the weak point. I believe I'd have to focus on direct xlr connection to a different set of headphones to achieve true balance if I am understanding correctly. I'm new so please correct errors in my logic. I'm here to expand it. Thank you!
Sooo this is 6 years late and I dont have much hopes of getting this answered, but I understand the basics of how a balanced connection and common mode rejection works, the part that I dont understand is how can a balanced amp and a balanced cable function on headphones if you do not rewire them internally? Clearly theres something I dont understand here, because in my brain, why would you send a balanced signal down a cable when the last bit of the connection is unbalanced? And if that works, and you now send double the power to the drivers, isnt that a problem when the internal wiring and drivers in the headphones were built for half the current?
question for paul. I use a small portable sound rig for small gigs etc, consisting of a Powered 12" Subwoofer with 1/4 input and 1/4 through output. And a Rechargeable Powered 12" 2 way Loudspeaker. Ive been using either RCA analog to 1/4 mono or XLR to 1/4 unbalanced to sub then from output a 1/4 Y splitter RCA to 3.5mm plug into the Loudspeaker. Is this correct way? OR should I be going 1/4 TRS balanced stereo into the subwoofer?
So, when shopping for balanced interconnects, how does one make sure you are looking at "pure balanced" and not just plain balanced. Most internet sales people won't know what you are taking about. Is the term "pure balanced" printed on the cable jacket or something? What to do, Paul?
joeb434 The cables don't matter and will work on all balanced circuits. The difference is in the circuitry. I also think Paul is exaggerating when he says, "much better sounding". If you have short and shielded decent RCA interconnects and don't have them touching the power cord and such, then there won't be much noise added. If you have long runs and a rats nest of wires, then balanced cables will make a substantial difference by eliminating the plethora of added noise.
@@gordthor5351 Gord, thanks for your comments on balanced interconnects. Very useful. But here's another two questions that you may or may not choose to answer. 1. In your opinion which power conditioner would you go with for a two-channel music only system. A Audioquest Niagra 5000 or a Shunyata Hydra or Venom 2 power conditioner? 2. Should I match the brand of interconnects and power cord cables with the brand of power conditioners I go with? Or does it really matter?
Hi Paul, your videos are enjoyable and educational. There is one thing you could do to improve them. When you're speaking, you have a bad habit of dropping your voice real softly. It makes it had to hear what your saying (and I have good hearing). Speak at the same level 😸😸😸
Eduardo Saldevar There is no difference, other than balanced removing any noise acquired between two units (RCA interconnects). Music and noise are waves and it's an inherent property of waves (water, electrical, sound........) to cancel each other out if a crest meets a trough. Equal noise will get on both the inverted signal and the normal signal, so when the inverted signal is flipped back to normal, the noise will be opposite of the noise on the untouched signal, thus the noise is canceled. Think of it like this : +signal and -signal (inverted) with +noise getting on both wires. The inverted wire gets flipped back to + in the receiving unit, which leaves you with two +signals (which add to double the amplitude) and -noise and +noise (canceled out). The amplitude doubles because when two equal wave crests or troughs meet, they ad together. This is why balanced has a gain of twice the voltage of RCA outputs.
BAL is better than SE on average. There are SE amps out there that are pretty good, but, BAL is guaranteed to sound excellent, with SE it's more of a gamble. So, if you have a choice, go BAL. That being said, if clean bass is what you're after, the model of the amp, is generally more important than anything else. FiiO K9 Pro has VERY clean bass on the BAL output, i know that for a fact, because that's what i'm using. xD
If the noise immunity afforded by the balanced config is all about the cable and it is being fed an inverted and non-inverted signal why does it matter how it's created?
Paul McGowan Agreed! Differential balanced circuits not only cancel out any stray noise picked up during transmission, they double signal strength on the receiving end. They do sound astonishingly better, because math. Math IS the only real magic! My headphone amplifier is a dual-mono, differential and fully internally balanced circuit from end-to-end, right down to the 4-pin XLR headphone connector. When coupled with a balanced DAC, it is the most amazing thing I ever heard.
Danny Woods Why would you need 60fps with these kind of video's. Its nice for action shots but Paul doesn't move THAT fast ;) Paul thanks for the video. I know how balanced works, but nontheless interresting to watch.
Just like some people's ears can hear Sonics that many other people's ears are incapabl of hearing , the same goes for a person's eyes. All eyes work on the same principle.but many people,especially younger people are going to see frame rates a bit differently. They young see much better and can tell the difference in a 30o to 60p frame rate. But it's almost a more point. Very few of us will really care as Mr Paul M. does not move fast enough to make a difference
The same way miniatures are filmed in high frame rate and then reduced down to 30 FPS . Lower the fps the less the subtleties and nuances come out in movement, With the miniatures example it makes things look bigger because all the subtleties of small movements go the way of the dodo. Inflections, microexpressions, Doubt, intrigue and emotion, a real person recollecting real memories as opposed to acting.
a 100 dollar cable from Hart Audio makes you feel plenty special, lmao. It's the most mindblowing sht i've ever used, lmao... Interconnects are fkin dope. :D
RCA connectors are also reffered to as "Tulip" connectors cause they look kinda like a Tulip from the side. They are called RCA Connectors as the design was originally from Radio Corporation of America (RCA).
Phase is the relationship between time and a SPECIFIC frequency. Phase and polarity cannot be used interchangeably. So let's take the generally accepted frequency range of human hearing - If a 20hz signal (the lowest frequency we can hear) is 180 degrees out of phase of another and lagging, then it is lagging by 25milliseconds and will cancel out (because it's a pure tone). If a 20kHz signal is 180 degrees out of phase, then it is lagging by 25microseconds and cancels out. That's a MASSIVE difference in time. Now, what happens when the signal is no longer a tone of a signal frequency but a real word signal of many different frequencies and amplitudes - 180 degrees out of phase doesn't really make sense anymore. 180 degrees at what frequency I ask. Look at a phase graph when tuning a PA (time aligning subs to top boxes for example) the graph shows phase VS frequency because it's a function of frequency and time to align the signals coming from both sources. You can't flip phase, it makes no sense. I'm happy to be told otherwise by a reputable source.
"I should have been prepared" Yeah wouldn't want to lose those 2 minutes of video you already recorded for the sake of looking prepared. Anyway that was really snarky, I did actually enjoy the video, thanks.
All audio amps, etc are single ended or unbalanced...you use balanced cable for external uses such as connecting equipment, long runs, etc...in broadcast gear with balanced IOs, the inside circuitry is unbalanced...the balanced input is converted to unbalanced via xfmr or active op amps. Same for the output
So it amplifies the difference in the signals, specifically to ISOLATE what they have in COMMON, so that it can ignore what they have in common, in order to produce a crystal clear signal, that's kinda clever. :)
you've got the right idea, mate. it's because the signal exists as voltage, which is a charge difference between two given points in space. it's like a battery; there's exactly two terminals, because the voltage is actually the difference between the two terminals. audio signals are the same way.
I don't get why you would pay tons of money for advanced unbalanced cables, when good professional grade balanced are better and cheaper. But wouldn't the hum or noise be in phase on both the + and ÷. That is why it will be phased out by the differential amp, and the audio signal will be doubled.
thats gotta be confusing as hell...because your detractors aren't technically all wrong, but you aren't either. it's not the sound that's affected or even the issue; it's whether additional noise, interference, or hum is induced into the signal along with the sound content. balanced interconnect is all about a balanced rejection of interference.
One of the most clear, precise and accurate descriptions of a Balanced transfer of signal.
Prepared. or unprepared, Paul you have a great ability to explain concepts in a plain and understandable way, brilliant!
You're very kind. Thank you.
Agree
@@Paulmcgowanpsaudio You should also include the differences in level, dB or voltage
And, a balanced cable has tree leads, not four. Often, not always, it also has a shield, sometimes the shield is used as ground.
Paul, too many youtubers explain half the truth. You of all should step up and explain the whole thing.
Thanks for your videos!
👍
@@mathiasjohannesson9833 Some balanced cables are 4 wire. 1 lead connects to the shells of the connectors to chassis [earth] ground. Another lead connects pin 1 [signal ground] which is produced by the power supply. Pins 2 & 3 are connected pin to pin. Chassis ground and signal ground should never be connected.
One of those simple but brilliant ideas in electronic engineering that makes so much sense when you see the logic behind it in terms of noise rejection.
But completely useless today when we have digital optical
A balanced input does pay attention to noise. The differential [+ and-] inputs to an op amp invert the noise putting it out of phase with itself thus canceling it and it inverts the - input audio to put in phase with the + input audio. The result is clean audio. Another advantage of balanced audio is it is typically +4 where unbalanced is -10
Thank you Paul for your explanation and defining what true balance is.
What a wonderful and beautiful channel you can feel the sincerity and helpful advice.
LOL @ 2:47 the 14 year old in me started laughing (hand gestures). Thank you For taking the time to make and post the videos Sir.
"The Dingus"
I spit my coffee out. Thanks Paul!
Only in Cape Town South Africa
Good question and you explain it so that I finally get it😊
Thanks Paul👍
Loving your content. Learning so much more from what my school slacked from in less then 10 minutes! Wow!
Great! Sometimes it's the simple practical examples we learn from rather than the stuffing of information into one's head at a time when there's no question being asked.
@@octaverecordsanddsdstudios1285 couldn't agree anymore! You've gainned a new subscriber! Thank you!
@@sammau5308 Thank you!
Excellent video- your knowledge is super, and your explanation of the technology is easily understood by the layman audiophile. Thanks!
True balanced means there is no conversion from balanced to single ended throughout the signal chain. This can also include power amps. Signals are symmetrical with respect to ground. Ground currents (resulting in common mode signals) is not part of the signal as with the shield on RCA.
Its quite easy to reduce amplified noise with balanced to below hearing threshold with balanced interfaces, but issues can arrise and distortion introduced with non symmetrical (non indentical/mismatched XLR pin 2 and 3) amplification. Also some differential input stages have mismatched input impedances, skewing the symmetry, thus not all common mode noise will be optimally suppressed.
Balanced path that includes some amplification tends to lower second order distortion due to symmetry, but to reduce 3rd order dustortion is more difficult.
I remember owning a Rotel RMB1095. Big beautiful amp that said it was balanced. Found out through Home Theater Magazine that it was Quasi Balanced.
Good thing it doesn't matter.
This video just helped me tremendously! Thank you!!
hi paul...i guess if the cable is one end is 3.5mm jack and the other is XLR to the receiver...it wont do any good...or will it?
Majority of balanced cables even when shielded have GND and shield connected together, even high end ones. So balanced cables are all about differential signal.
Patryk Kulczyk , I'm pretty sure that's what he just said dip stick
Thank you for sharing your knowledge, learning a lot here. I have a question, I have a Focusrite Scarlett Solo and it seems the left output only works if I plug the cable halfway through, I mean, you can hear the sound only if the Tip of the cable touches the negative part of the balanced output of my sound interface. The right output works perfectly with the same cable, so the cable is not the problem; with a TRS cable works well but I think it's because the negative part of the bal output sends the sound through the negative of the cable, I don't understand why it doesn't send the negative also through the TS cable. Hope you can clear my ideas, thank you very much for your help. Greetings from Costa Rica.
Would ve appreciated a bit more background on why true balance is better and why the cheap solution is not capable enough, what audible difference is the result.
Excellent explanation on how balance circuit works
Thanks I understand what you're saying it cancel out each other!
Paul, A couple of additional points from the Pro Sound engineering side of things. RCA is generally high impedance on the receiving equipment, so when there is a poor ground connection which is common in RCA cables, induced noise is not shunted to ground but can produce significant noise. RCA terminations are typically 20K to 47 K ohms. Antique crystal microphones were worse with lower voltage signal and termination of 50 to 200 K ohms, refereed to as high impedance microphones. At high impedance source signals, the capacitance of the cable produced huge loss of high frequency on longer cables, and with some dielectric insulators in some cables, the cables themselves were monophonic, so you could hear cables moving or being stepped on. This was called cable rustle. This is now a thing of the past.
Balanced audio in the pro gear realm, brought with it a low impedance standard often referred to as Low Z. I presume the PS Audio is utilizing the advantages of this impedance. For microphones the mixers and gear generally terminated the microphones into a load of 200 to 600 ohms. This low impedance shunted high impedance leakage into cables to ground as they produced very little induced voltage.
In pro gear the standard signal level for interconnections is much higher than consumer gear. Instead of running signals at -14 to -20 dBu, they call zero VU +4 dBu, so the noise levels picked up may be the same, and taken care of by the balanced signal, the actual signal on the wire is a much higher voltage. The termination for line level is often 20K balanced and 10 K unbalanced. This is lower than most RCA equipment. Most pro gear will clip the signal at over 12 volt peaks as the op amps driving the cable are operated from plus and minus 15 volt supplies.
Paul, do you use levels comparable with pro audio gear? Would it drive a good pair of Mackie SRM-450 speakers for example?
FYI, I service equipment for a living as an engineering technician. I repair as well as setup and operate it.
isettech , you must use Google a lot to copy what Google says about this issue, I don't really believe that you are a Steven Hawken of Audio dude
Tim Schutte, Actually I was born in the 1950's and was into electronics as transistors took over vacuum tubes. The standard PA mic was a crystal element and high impedance in the days of tube equipment. I made electronics a career, first as a hobby in HS, then into RF in the advanced electronics program of the USN, then during the recession of the '80s, went into consumer electronics and learned VCR's Camcorders, Compact Discs in manufacturer's training courses, and took and passed the Journeyman ISCET Certification exam. I was recruited to work in the Cayman Islands in the 2 way communications shop and was the local radio and TV station's engineer. As the position was temporary (work permit only valid for up to 6 years) I was offered a position at Intel as an R&D technician where I learned lasers, high vacuum plasma systems, etc for producing parts in the sub micron range. This required very precise instrumentation. I'm not a Steven Hawking with new ideas in the advancement of electrical science, however I have the advantage of bleeding industry best practices for high resolution, low noise, low distortion, and precision.
Tim, I presume you are younger than I and have had less training and industry experience. Don't be jealous. Try to learn something new everyday. My most recent certification is the EPA 608 certification as I am adding repair of industrial temperature control to my skill set. You either keep current or become obsolete. I copy less from Google than you assume as much of it is pseudo science and incorrect. Knowing the difference requires knowledge of the current state of the art.
Love the tone on the guitar in the intro.
With these types of 'duhh' techniques that perfectly solve a problem in a very straight forward and simple way I always get a giggle out of imagining the facepalms of people when someone thinks of it and then goes to explain it to other people.
I always imagine them all going "Why the hell didn't I think of that?!".
In fact, back in high school our physics professor asked us to think of a way to filter out noise from an analog signal (being transferred by wire) and I distinctly remember the entire class being dumbstruck when the first person to think of it raised their hand and conveyed the solution.
How does the DAC in the Stellar Gain Cell compare with the DAC option on the Moon Neo CD player? I really love dials on such things as the Threshold Fet 10 (which I have lusted over), but it lacks XLR, as do many preamps under $2000 with phono sections. Tracking down a Classé DR-6R has been elusive...
I see an HP334 Distortion Analyzer in the background.
i guess i had it wrong, i though those 3 pin cables had 1 ground and 2 live but only one true signal like:
channel A = sound (A*1 or A times 1)
channel B = empty (B*-1 or B times minus 1)
ground just completes the loop and it would be (A*1)+(B*-1) = sound minus interference. (well that is how i get 3.5mm jacks to get guitar in the PC without noise...)
for any one who played with distortion pedals, you would CLEARLY hear what the noise is, other than that, you may have too low noise to notice unless you have a "low noise floor" on your particular system (the hiss) (or shhhhhhhhhhhhh sound) where you could hear it... but a professional high grade system have low noise floor so you hear interference! on the other hand, normal grace systems tends to have enough hiss or shhh or hummm to drown the external interference. 1 example of high noise floor, hearing a hiss at 1 third (30%) of the volume; low noise floor only begins hissing at 80% and higher.
I love the opening shots of the Flatirons.
I always had the impression that the balanced connections and cables only have three leads... One ground, one hot and one cold. I have never seen any balanced cable with separate ground and shield (but maybe I was not looking carefully enough). Can you please correct me, if I'm wrong? Thanks!
you have the correct impression, balanced is two audio wires and one grounded shield wire. this topic is riddled with confusion most of the time because it's frankly not well understood by many who wish to discuss it. there are a bunch of technical terms that get used and misused interchangeably. "ground" can be referring to "chassey ground", "earth ground", "audio/signal ground", "shield", or any other point in a circuit that's meant to be a zero volt reference point. but in a given circuit, the audio ground can be tens or even hundreds of volts above or below the chassis/earth ground. this is why it's dangerous to remove the earth prong from a 3-prong electrical cable on, say, a guitar amp. if a hard physical connection isn't connecting the chassey to the earth, the strings of the guitar plugged into the amp could suddenly be hundreds of volts away from the ground you stand on or the microphone you occasionally grab once that ground pin is removed from the amp's power cable. that's how you get zapped.
High great videos,
my situation i have an accuphase DP-78
sacd player with balanced xlr outputs
but my technics SU-MA10 amplifier from 1991
has no xlr inputs, only rca inputs.
Does it make sense to take xlr to rca cables?
Or should I go with rca-rca only on the analogue outputs to my amplifier?
What would be the difference?
Thank you for clarifying.
What if the amplifier is NOT a fully differential balanced amp, are balanced XLR still worth it?
Hey, I have a question - is TRS to XLR also balanced? (Like TRS toTRS and XLR to XLR are)? Thanks!
Robart Hristov yes
Paul, thanks for the explanation. Doesn't the quality of the cable/interconnect and its shielding also play a big role in preventing "noise" from creeping in? Why would someone pay thousands for a very high quality RCA terminated cable like a high-end AudioQuest or Cardas cable, when they could eliminate any noise with a balanced cable through the cancellation process and perhaps the balanced cable might cost less depending on brand? Is it safe to say all balanced cables are pretty much noise free, but that the overall quality of the cable and materials used is the primary factor driving the price?
Does it actually matter with short cables Like from the dac to the amp?
The common node rejection is not only within the cable but from the internal component of dac, preamp and amp.
I’m a little confused, in a balanced cable usually there are only 2 carriers and a shield…and only very rarely have I seen the shield tab of the xlr connector actually used, just ground(shield of wire) to pin 1, positive to pin 2 and negative to pin 3, and nothing to the actual “shield” tab of connector. I guess if you had noisy conditions or some inherent hum you could shunt pin 1 to “shield” tab of xlr connector? Also, I have seen reputable cable manufactures that don’t even have a “shield” in the cable, it’s literally just 3 conductors. And last, I’ve noticed another high end cable company that makes their single ended(RCA) cables from balanced cable and only connect the 2 carriers, and leave the shield unused.
I’ve always wondered this. Thanks Paul 😁
Can you use a cat6 cable in a balanced audio chain? and will interferance be accepted in this cable?
7:50 everything was clear and useful but I didn't understand the pros of using a balanced circuit over a circuit making a balanced signal
No worries. They are somewhat the same. So a balanced interconnect removes anything in common between the two conductors, like hum. In the circuit, it too eliminates anything in common, but here there's little hum to worry about, and instead, there is noise and distortion generated in the circuit. The balanced nature of the circuit topology lowers both generated noise and distortion.
@@octaverecordsanddsdstudios1285 but where does noise and distortion comes from (when talking about the circuit) ? does the circuit also picks unwanted external noise?
technically if your circuit's metal enclosure box is properly grounded, it makes no difference, with one exception, which is if the inputs or outputs are unbalanced, then the circuit's "ground" reference will be connected to the enclosure box, providing an entry point for interference and hum. in a fully balanced system, all connected hardware have the internal circuitry physically isolated from contact with the earth grounded enclosures. so, you can have an "unbalanced" circuit in such a system, and have it be just as immune to interference, provided it's signal input and output points are configured to be isolated from the enclosure and earth ground.
What is that buzzing in the background when you are speaking? A ground loop?
Is it possible to get a balanced sound from a reel player?
In the true balanced circuit, why doesn’t the inverted signal cancel out the non-inverted signal? Or does the differential input on the receiving end accept both signals because they are different and then reinvert the inverted signal to match the non-inverted signal?
If you were to add them together they would but differential inputs have two inputs-an inverting (out of phase) and a non-inverting (in phase). They are opposite setups such that they only add differential signals and ignore common signals.
A lot of followers and views. Congrats. Your vids pop up in a lot of my searches. I just wish you could answer a question without derailing for once so that the answer is 2 minutes long, instead of taking you 2-3 minutes to figure out where you are.
Paul, what is the reel tape machine behind you?
Great video! Is there a way I can tell if the 1/4" inputs and outs on my mixer are balanced or not? It's an inexpensive mixer (Moukey Mamx3); and the manual doesn't indicate balanced/unbalanced. Each channel has a switch allowing you to choose mono or stereo; since it can support stereo does that mean that if I chose mono I would get a balanced connection with a TRS cable?
Great explanation. Thank you.
You are the best period !
“That’s a plug”
So if I need balanced to unbalanced (interface to headphone amp), I would need 2 set of cabled?
how do you get 2!!! signals from electric guitar from which 1 is inverted in relation to another?
balanced circuit?????????????
Balanced is best especially for MC cartridges. RCA connectors (single ended) use the negitive (-) to ground the signal where's XLR (balanced) use a separate ground and leave the + and - to carry the signal. Also XLR connectors eliminate earth loop and reduce noise significantly.
Is it the cable or the device that is either true balanced or just balanced?
And how do I tell what mise is?
Cheers
I need to run 3.5mm from my TV to stereo RCA on my powered speakers. How can ensure audio integrity/quality with the adaptor connection?
So, the balanced version is like a humbucker pickup in a guitar, it cancels out the hum picked up by both coils?
yes... it uses the inverting signal to isolate the hum that both signals have in common, to ignore that hum, creating crystal clear signal.
Absolutely great video!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The RCA connector gets it's name from original company because it was convenient at the time it was designed. They are NOT a great connector for reliable quality contact long term. They all get noisy based on design only.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RCA_connector
Great explanation you presented in this video!!! Thank you for your knowledge for folks to understand.
I have a question and could be very silly to ask: Speaking about balanced cables, that noise generated from an external source (like a transformer) is picked up by two hot signals. But at the same time there is ground as well. Can it be got by the ground as well? So how does the receiver side handles this case? I assume ground is not the earth. It is just a reference level, so doesn't noise on the ground signal introduce noise on the final signal in the receiver side? Thanks a lot you is helping me out on this.
it can be picked up by the chassey/shield ground wire as well, yes, but in a balanced interconnect system, the two audio signal wires are not physically connected to the shield, and the audio pair also have the same impedance relationship to said shield wire, which is actually the heart of balanced configurations. the name of the game is that the audio signal exists as a voltage differential, which is simply the electrical pressure difference between the two wires at any given moment. since a voltage is a measure of the difference in charge between two points, it's essentially a subtractive relationship, so the input to an amplifier is listening to the hot wire minus the cold wire. any noise or interference that is equally induced into the wires (ensured by tightly twisting the wires), gets cancelled out when it reaches the input (receiving) end of the connection. like, 1 volt of noise on both signal wires means that at the receiving end where the hot signal wire is subtracted from the cold signal wire, 1-1=0, and thus everything but the actual signal gets rejected from going any further and gets eliminated.
this is all based on the notion of shielding discovered by Faraday a long time ago, which is that a circuit can be protected from outside interference if it is enclosed by a metal box or mesh screen of conductive metal or other conductive sheathing, provided that box/mesh is physically connected to earth ground, by which i mean literally the surface of the planet. on a side note, nikola tesla discovered that the surface of the earth behaves identically to a giant ball of copper. so as long as interference hitting the metal box of an amplifier, for example, has a conductive path to ground, it gets blocked from further travel and doesn't get induced into the circuit inside said box. all balanced cabling and interconnects are simply an extension of this principle.
I bought headphones with 1/4 in connectors. However, my dac also has xlr. Would there be noticeable benefit to using an adapter to xlr? Clearly, I cannot achieve true balance because the splitter to the headphones would be the weak point. I believe I'd have to focus on direct xlr connection to a different set of headphones to achieve true balance if I am understanding correctly. I'm new so please correct errors in my logic. I'm here to expand it. Thank you!
So balance is differential signaling.
Sooo this is 6 years late and I dont have much hopes of getting this answered, but I understand the basics of how a balanced connection and common mode rejection works, the part that I dont understand is how can a balanced amp and a balanced cable function on headphones if you do not rewire them internally? Clearly theres something I dont understand here, because in my brain, why would you send a balanced signal down a cable when the last bit of the connection is unbalanced? And if that works, and you now send double the power to the drivers, isnt that a problem when the internal wiring and drivers in the headphones were built for half the current?
question for paul. I use a small portable sound rig for small gigs etc, consisting of a Powered 12" Subwoofer with 1/4 input and 1/4 through output. And a Rechargeable Powered 12" 2 way Loudspeaker. Ive been using either RCA analog to 1/4 mono or XLR to 1/4 unbalanced to sub then from output a 1/4 Y splitter RCA to 3.5mm plug into the Loudspeaker. Is this correct way? OR should I be going 1/4 TRS balanced stereo into the subwoofer?
I prefer balanced over single ended always.
@@Paulmcgowanpsaudio For small gigs with lots of room noise....well you get picture
So, when shopping for balanced interconnects, how does one make sure you are looking at "pure balanced" and not just plain balanced. Most internet sales people won't know what you are taking about. Is the term "pure balanced" printed on the cable jacket or something? What to do, Paul?
joeb434 The cables don't matter and will work on all balanced circuits. The difference is in the circuitry. I also think Paul is exaggerating when he says, "much better sounding". If you have short and shielded decent RCA interconnects and don't have them touching the power cord and such, then there won't be much noise added. If you have long runs and a rats nest of wires, then balanced cables will make a substantial difference by eliminating the plethora of added noise.
@@gordthor5351 Gord, thanks for your comments on balanced interconnects. Very useful. But here's another two questions that you may or may not choose to answer. 1. In your opinion which power conditioner would you go with for a two-channel music only system. A Audioquest Niagra 5000 or a Shunyata Hydra or Venom 2 power conditioner? 2. Should I match the brand of interconnects and power cord cables with the brand of power conditioners I go with? Or does it really matter?
Hi Paul, your videos are enjoyable and educational. There is one thing you could do to improve them. When you're speaking, you have a bad habit of dropping your voice real softly. It makes it had to hear what your saying (and I have good hearing). Speak at the same level 😸😸😸
good explanation I am using video baluns (balance to unbalance transformers)to send video signals to long distance.
What is better connection for a low frequency (bass)? Unbal or bal.?
Eduardo Saldevar There is no difference, other than balanced removing any noise acquired between two units (RCA interconnects). Music and noise are waves and it's an inherent property of waves (water, electrical, sound........) to cancel each other out if a crest meets a trough. Equal noise will get on both the inverted signal and the normal signal, so when the inverted signal is flipped back to normal, the noise will be opposite of the noise on the untouched signal, thus the noise is canceled. Think of it like this : +signal and -signal (inverted) with +noise getting on both wires. The inverted wire gets flipped back to + in the receiving unit, which leaves you with two +signals (which add to double the amplitude) and -noise and +noise (canceled out). The amplitude doubles because when two equal wave crests or troughs meet, they ad together. This is why balanced has a gain of twice the voltage of RCA outputs.
BAL is better than SE on average.
There are SE amps out there that are pretty good, but, BAL is guaranteed to sound excellent, with SE it's more of a gamble.
So, if you have a choice, go BAL.
That being said, if clean bass is what you're after, the model of the amp, is generally more important than anything else.
FiiO K9 Pro has VERY clean bass on the BAL output, i know that for a fact, because that's what i'm using. xD
I'd love to see a *true* balanced schematic as opposed to your idea of just using an op amp to create the inverted signal :)
That's basically how you do it, for more detailed design check out Small Signal Audio Design by Douglas Self
Thanks FYI. Pardon me but I think it was fall that make you itch right Paul.
I used Amway body lotion to counter act it.
Society O Hi N Audio that’s a plug!
If the noise immunity afforded by the balanced config is all about the cable and it is being fed an inverted and non-inverted signal why does it matter how it's created?
How do you know if your system components are true balanced?
I think it’s audio jack
I would expect more attetntion to open reel tape from audio professional. I know it is probably only prop, but it was hard to watch.
Thank you, now I get it
Love the vids
As for balanced circuits, James Bongiorno, Ron Sutherland and Roger Sanders said no. Why double the circuits, which doubles distortion and noise ?
Indeed it does.
Paul McGowan Agreed! Differential balanced circuits not only cancel out any stray noise picked up during transmission, they double signal strength on the receiving end. They do sound astonishingly better, because math. Math IS the only real magic! My headphone amplifier is a dual-mono, differential and fully internally balanced circuit from end-to-end, right down to the 4-pin XLR headphone connector. When coupled with a balanced DAC, it is the most amazing thing I ever heard.
Is the Aune S6 a true balanced device? And how to recognize that?
I miss the 60 fps videos..... Love the Ask Paul videos by the way!
Danny Woods Why would you need 60fps with these kind of video's. Its nice for action shots but Paul doesn't move THAT fast ;)
Paul thanks for the video. I know how balanced works, but nontheless interresting to watch.
Danny Woods you need a more expensive power cable for your computer
Just like some people's ears can hear Sonics that many other people's ears are incapabl of hearing , the same goes for a person's eyes. All eyes work on the same principle.but many people,especially younger people are going to see frame rates a bit differently. They young see much better and can tell the difference in a 30o to 60p frame rate.
But it's almost a more point. Very few of us will really care as Mr Paul M. does not move fast enough to make a difference
The same way miniatures are filmed in high frame rate and then reduced down to 30 FPS . Lower the fps the less the subtleties and nuances come out in movement, With the miniatures example it makes things look bigger because all the subtleties of small movements go the way of the dodo.
Inflections, microexpressions, Doubt, intrigue and emotion, a real person recollecting real memories as opposed to acting.
The problem with balanced is there's no need for $3000 cables to make you feel special.
a 100 dollar cable from Hart Audio makes you feel plenty special, lmao.
It's the most mindblowing sht i've ever used, lmao... Interconnects are fkin dope. :D
RCA connectors are also reffered to as "Tulip" connectors cause they look kinda like a Tulip from the side. They are called RCA Connectors as the design was originally from Radio Corporation of America (RCA).
Clarity pls. Looking for a simple response.
It would have been easy to demonstrate with a source and a scope ,
6:10 Opposite polarity? Not out of phase
technically is out of phase, such out of phase is exactely 180° phased out. But opposite polarity is well said too.
Phase is the relationship between time and a SPECIFIC frequency. Phase and polarity cannot be used interchangeably. So let's take the generally accepted frequency range of human hearing - If a 20hz signal (the lowest frequency we can hear) is 180 degrees out of phase of another and lagging, then it is lagging by 25milliseconds and will cancel out (because it's a pure tone). If a 20kHz signal is 180 degrees out of phase, then it is lagging by 25microseconds and cancels out. That's a MASSIVE difference in time. Now, what happens when the signal is no longer a tone of a signal frequency but a real word signal of many different frequencies and amplitudes - 180 degrees out of phase doesn't really make sense anymore. 180 degrees at what frequency I ask. Look at a phase graph when tuning a PA (time aligning subs to top boxes for example) the graph shows phase VS frequency because it's a function of frequency and time to align the signals coming from both sources. You can't flip phase, it makes no sense. I'm happy to be told otherwise by a reputable source.
Leonard Buckley , same damn thing dip stick.
try again
"I should have been prepared"
Yeah wouldn't want to lose those 2 minutes of video you already recorded for the sake of looking prepared.
Anyway that was really snarky, I did actually enjoy the video, thanks.
he deserved that, you make a very good point, lmao. xD
dropped a like for the dingus
Balanced vs Unbalanced Audio explained in this video
ua-cam.com/video/DlWviGa8GEk/v-deo.html
So why not optical?
Optical is not relevant here, this video is about audio cables, not digital one's.
It's balanced cables. What about balanced amp vs. unbalanced amp?
All audio amps, etc are single ended or unbalanced...you use balanced cable for external uses such as connecting equipment, long runs, etc...in broadcast gear with balanced IOs, the inside circuitry is unbalanced...the balanced input is converted to unbalanced via xfmr or active op amps. Same for the output
@@christopherboone9802 That's a solid non-answer, lmao.
♥️balanced. Sounds soo much better
So it amplifies the difference in the signals, specifically to ISOLATE what they have in COMMON, so that it can ignore what they have in common, in order to produce a crystal clear signal, that's kinda clever. :)
you've got the right idea, mate. it's because the signal exists as voltage, which is a charge difference between two given points in space. it's like a battery; there's exactly two terminals, because the voltage is actually the difference between the two terminals. audio signals are the same way.
RCA equals Radio Corporation of America
it all depends on the quality of the sound source
Paul, you are never prepared. To be prepared takes at most 10 minutes. Respect your viewers and be prepared.
Thank you!
I think you're trolling us... LOL. "I don't know where the term RCA came from?" (As the RCA dog is sitting off to the right... conspicuously)
well said..now i know thanks sir
I don't get why you would pay tons of money for advanced unbalanced cables, when good professional grade balanced are better and cheaper. But wouldn't the hum or noise be in phase on both the + and ÷. That is why it will be phased out by the differential amp, and the audio signal will be doubled.
I like XLR , but a lot of audiophiles and reviewers say that a balanced connection just sounds louder.
@Carlos Belloso In Short, BAL is more energy efficient.
Of course it is... it is twice the signal level over unbalanced
RCA cable =(a coaxial cable without the f terminal replaced with push on terminal)
Wish there was only one standard way and it gave the best signal.
Differential signalling and balanced connections are two different concepts.
Balanced Output = (A+Noise) - (-A+Noise) = A + Noise + A - Noise = 2A.
Noise go bye bye.
There are so many people who argue with me saying balanced and single ended have no difference in sound. And of course they’re all wrong.
thats gotta be confusing as hell...because your detractors aren't technically all wrong, but you aren't either. it's not the sound that's affected or even the issue; it's whether additional noise, interference, or hum is induced into the signal along with the sound content. balanced interconnect is all about a balanced rejection of interference.
I've bought into balanced in the headphone world due to power differences
If you are listening to a home system I find very little difference
RCA (UK) - Royal College of Art.
Marketing!
Yay Nipper.