Please don't stop this series, they are just amazing, very informative, helping me understand my Viet traits more. I wish I had learned history like this.
I have been keeping up with every episodes of the Vietnamese History Makers and I really love these episodes. I'm from Vietnam and love to explore the truth about the history of Vietnam and these episodes have been helping me to see truth for what it is and to empathize with people's stories both in the diaspora community and people in Vietnam. Please keep it up Kenneth and Prof Pham I really love the work that you are doing!
Thank you for your kind comment. We are all searching for the stories that make up who we are. I’m grateful that you find meaning in this series. We also enjoy making this series as well! Hopefully through our shared history we can all come together one day to celebrate the Vietnamese all over the world.
I forgot to give Kenneth a huge credit who is in charge "The Vietnamese with Kenneth Nguyen". These episodes are the great valuable materials for the history of Vietnam. The first generation Vietnamese American and after will continue your work and preserve it as the history of Vietnam.
Professor Kevin Pham are the first generation Vietnamese American who is interested in Vietnamese history. He is showing the world how Vietnamese proud of themselves. Robert Nguyen, Myrtle Beach, SC.
Thank you Robert. But we must acknowledge the many other Vietnamese American historians that have been doing the heavy lifting such as Lien Hang, Tuong Vu, Alex Thai and many many more in the U.S. I would love to get to know historians and professors in Vietnam as well. Their truth is also valuable to the entire Vietnam narrative.
Talking about being iconoclastic, it’s interesting to me how Vietnamese who converted to Catholicism, thus throwing out Lạc Long Quân and Âu Cơ to embrace Adam and Eve as their ancestors, seem to try very hard to hold on to the Vietnamese identity when they are in the West. Yet, the Catholics who are in Vietnam tend to see themselves as better than Vietnamese who aren’t Catholics. When I was a child a Catholic priest would tell us how the West is better than Vietnam because they have Christianity, I believed it then, but once I came to the U.S. I realized how BS that is. The only reason I can think of that make Catholic Vietnamese in the West try so hard to hold on to their Vietnamese identity is because they realize that even though they have forsake their ancestors, but their coreligionists in the West still see them as the others. Is that correct?
It amazed me how time washed away fact. If you think logically for a bit you can see how thing was played out in the old day. Originally, the folks who were converted to Catholic was mostly poor. The poors were hungry. The french Catholic church would had food centers around the county to feed the poors. BUT, before being given the foods, the poor had to sit and be preached before being fed. Nothing is free. After a while, the poors who listened to sermons are brainwashed into believe in the religion which in this case is catholic.
@ “It’s amazed it me” how people choose a certain narrative to feel good about themselves. In 1954 when my ông ngoại came to the south, there were certainly Catholic church centers feeding the poor and refugees, but when he got to the front of the line the first thing they asked him was “Có đạo hay không có đạo?” Which means “do you have religion” because many Catholics see that they are the only true religion in the world. When my ông ngoại replied “không” they turned him away and said “Theo chúa mới có lúa mà ăn, theo phật chỉ có tật ăn xin.” The trouble with that situation was that the majority of the food aides from the newly established government of South Vietnam at the time were funneled through Catholic organizations to “help” the poor and refugees, but these organizations only helped Catholics. During the French colonial era of Vietnam the Catholics had a lot of influence and powers and they were one of the terrible địa chủ (land owners) who favored Catholics and only helped non-Catholics if they were willing to convert. Often the lands owned by the Catholic church were donated to the church by rich land owners and merchants hoping to buy their way into “heaven.” Not only the poor converted, many who saw the benefits of being part of a religion that seemed to be sponsored by the authority. The Catholic church also seized land or were given land by the French authority. Preferences were made for them. Those lands and resources came at the expense of Vietnamese. Similar situation happened during the Diệm era when Vietnamese in the south were forced off their lands to make room for Catholics refugee from the north. Also there were Catholic militia lead by Catholic priest who tried to force convert villages of Montagnard Mennonite (tin lành) in the central highland, those who refused were killed. Some time the whole entire village. Edit: My knee jerk reaction missed your point. A thousand apologies🙏😊
bravo kenneth. i congratulate you (& prof. pham) for the courage to discuss these issues - although i disagree plenty with both of you. i can't even talk to some of my siblings and close friends for the very issue that i want to be fair when i criticize (or cheer) both "old & new" political sides - and there's plenty of criticism & shame to go around. if we can't face our shortcomings, how are we supposed to ameliorize ourselves?
Interesting point about shame perspective from a colonizer contrasting to the colonized, or maybe a colonized Confucius state. On Pham Quynh could you please talk more about the role of Quoc ngu in revolutionizing our identity as Vietnamese. I believe that Quoc ngu helped broke free Vietnam from the constraints of Chinese domination in Vietnam culture, helped improved literacy and helped involved the mass and its oral tradition incorporated into the written language and into forming the wider Vietnamese identity. Could the professor share his thoughts about this idea? That was a theory I had and wrote a paper in college. My Caucasian humanity professor, not familiar with Vietnam gave me a grade C+. Hehe.
I have to say. Now living in vietnam and seeing all these red flags after the soccer match gave me a very uneasy feeling. Needless to say i am very much allergic to it 😅 Worst still is seeing the hammer & sickle flag being waved next to it while the crowds sang "Vietnam Hồ Chí Minh". It definitely felt more than just a soccer match between 2 nations
This happens to a lot of second generation diaspora folks. It’s a natural reaction to years of family dinner discussions. I totally feel you. It eventually fades but never goes away. It’s like a reverse scarlet letter
@TheVietnamesepodcast I don't know Ken. Personally it only intensified of the year and a half that I've been here. We'll see how it gets in another year 😅
btw gents, afghansitan also defeated 3 members of the U.N >> the british, the american & the soviet (russian) >> there's a lot that the panel needs to "review its claim".... ;)
Hi Robert, we will be talking about Ho Chi Minh in a few more episodes. We are building up to him and other figures around his time that are important to understanding the shift in modern Vietnamese society.
Do you think this is one of those superficial characteristics of the Vietnamese person in general which have been criticized in the hundred years before by many Viet thinkers?
My guess is that if you go back a century to many countries that weren’t exposed to modern thinkers from the Enlightenment, that might be the pervasive characteristics of the people. This is not just a Vietnamese characteristic but many other developing countries. We just happen to only discuss Vietnam on this channel. But as you put it, it is a superficial characteristic that we use to illustrate a point.
1. In 1959, just four years after the birth of the Republic of South Vietnam, Vietnam had already won a soccer match against Thailand in the first competition among Southeast Asian countries. ua-cam.com/video/HssQtiKTlic/v-deo.html I hope you guys understand the Vietnamese in the above video. 2. The Yellow Flag of the South has already been in the past. Young Vietnamese do not need to disrespect that Flag but should recognize and respect the genuine compassion of those who sacrificed and died for it in the past. They should not waste time and energy quarreling about the past Yellow Flag; it's only a heritage Flag now, not representing any country.
India the continent and India the country back then and now still opted for and caste system, religion, ethnicity and nationalism after colonialism as theirs "cultural identity" and "tradition". So no wonder Tagore turned away from that. About the differences between the East and the West's education it's important to look at not only the content and the value of theoretical works but more importantly the implimentation and the outcome of that implimentation with different intended and unintended subjects. Otherwise we will just keep failing, keep praising those stand alone 'art pieces' from Laozi and Confucius, Hinduism etc and then turn to religion for answer till Kingdom come. They are fantastic works and researches but they are not the end all, be all principles of truth for all people as many tried to make them out to be then got lost in the sauce.
Would you say the same thing if it was the 1920s (the period we discuss in this episode) when the Vietnamese were dominated by the French? In 1923, why did Nguyen An Ninh criticize the Vietnamese for not thinking for themselves? Do you think he is wrong, and, if so, why?
Great question! I did nothing to be proud of being Vietnamese. I just happened to be born into the culture. How can someone be proud just because they were born into something? Instead, I have over the years developed an unconditional love for the Vietnamese culture. And I love the Vietnamese culture because I’ve studied it all of my life and am getting more informed about what it is. Therefore, allowing my love for Vietnamese culture to increase every day. You can say I am proud about my understanding of the culture. But I don’t think I experience pride just because I was born Vietnamese. Hope that helps explains your question.
Thanks so much ..This channel is my go to Sunday morning coffee listen. Per your conversation about East vs West goals in formal education...Albert Einstein is often quoted as saying, "Don't memorize what you can look up". Quite the opposite of the Asian approach.
Please don't stop this series, they are just amazing, very informative, helping me understand my Viet traits more. I wish I had learned history like this.
I feel the same way. I wish I had these history lessons when I was much younger. They would’ve saved a few of us years of cultural pain.
I have been keeping up with every episodes of the Vietnamese History Makers and I really love these episodes. I'm from Vietnam and love to explore the truth about the history of Vietnam and these episodes have been helping me to see truth for what it is and to empathize with people's stories both in the diaspora community and people in Vietnam. Please keep it up Kenneth and Prof Pham I really love the work that you are doing!
Thank you for your kind comment. We are all searching for the stories that make up who we are. I’m grateful that you find meaning in this series. We also enjoy making this series as well! Hopefully through our shared history we can all come together one day to celebrate the Vietnamese all over the world.
Thank you both for enlightening me on Nguyen An Min. This show has been great for expanding our community’s perception beyond the given boundaries.
Thank you for the kind words. Digging into these stories has given me so much insight as well.
I forgot to give Kenneth a huge credit who is in charge "The Vietnamese with Kenneth Nguyen". These episodes are the great valuable materials for the history of Vietnam. The first generation Vietnamese American and after will continue your work and preserve it as the history of Vietnam.
Thank you for the kind words, Robert!
Professor Kevin Pham are the first generation Vietnamese American who is interested in Vietnamese history. He is showing the world how Vietnamese proud of themselves. Robert Nguyen, Myrtle Beach, SC.
Thank you Robert. But we must acknowledge the many other Vietnamese American historians that have been doing the heavy lifting such as Lien Hang, Tuong Vu, Alex Thai and many many more in the U.S. I would love to get to know historians and professors in Vietnam as well. Their truth is also valuable to the entire Vietnam narrative.
Talking about being iconoclastic, it’s interesting to me how Vietnamese who converted to Catholicism, thus throwing out Lạc Long Quân and Âu Cơ to embrace Adam and Eve as their ancestors, seem to try very hard to hold on to the Vietnamese identity when they are in the West. Yet, the Catholics who are in Vietnam tend to see themselves as better than Vietnamese who aren’t Catholics. When I was a child a Catholic priest would tell us how the West is better than Vietnam because they have Christianity, I believed it then, but once I came to the U.S. I realized how BS that is.
The only reason I can think of that make Catholic Vietnamese in the West try so hard to hold on to their Vietnamese identity is because they realize that even though they have forsake their ancestors, but their coreligionists in the West still see them as the others. Is that correct?
It amazed me how time washed away fact. If you think logically for a bit you can see how thing was played out in the old day. Originally, the folks who were converted to Catholic was mostly poor. The poors were hungry. The french Catholic church would had food centers around the county to feed the poors. BUT, before being given the foods, the poor had to sit and be preached before being fed. Nothing is free. After a while, the poors who listened to sermons are brainwashed into believe in the religion which in this case is catholic.
@ “It’s amazed it me” how people choose a certain narrative to feel good about themselves. In 1954 when my ông ngoại came to the south, there were certainly Catholic church centers feeding the poor and refugees, but when he got to the front of the line the first thing they asked him was “Có đạo hay không có đạo?” Which means “do you have religion” because many Catholics see that they are the only true religion in the world. When my ông ngoại replied “không” they turned him away and said “Theo chúa mới có lúa mà ăn, theo phật chỉ có tật ăn xin.” The trouble with that situation was that the majority of the food aides from the newly established government of South Vietnam at the time were funneled through Catholic organizations to “help” the poor and refugees, but these organizations only helped Catholics.
During the French colonial era of Vietnam the Catholics had a lot of influence and powers and they were one of the terrible địa chủ (land owners) who favored Catholics and only helped non-Catholics if they were willing to convert. Often the lands owned by the Catholic church were donated to the church by rich land owners and merchants hoping to buy their way into “heaven.” Not only the poor converted, many who saw the benefits of being part of a religion that seemed to be sponsored by the authority. The Catholic church also seized land or were given land by the French authority. Preferences were made for them. Those lands and resources came at the expense of Vietnamese. Similar situation happened during the Diệm era when Vietnamese in the south were forced off their lands to make room for Catholics refugee from the north. Also there were Catholic militia lead by Catholic priest who tried to force convert villages of Montagnard Mennonite (tin lành) in the central highland, those who refused were killed. Some time the whole entire village.
Edit: My knee jerk reaction missed your point. A thousand apologies🙏😊
bravo kenneth. i congratulate you (& prof. pham) for the courage to discuss these issues - although i disagree plenty with both of you. i can't even talk to some of my siblings and close friends for the very issue that i want to be fair when i criticize (or cheer) both "old & new" political sides - and there's plenty of criticism & shame to go around. if we can't face our shortcomings, how are we supposed to ameliorize ourselves?
I thank you for this comment. To disagree, write it so clearly and directly, I can respect that. Thank you for listening.
Suggest 5-10minute shows on the fire. It is the immediate impact to the community.
Working on that right now
@ way ahead of me. Nice.
Interesting point about shame perspective from a colonizer contrasting to the colonized, or maybe a colonized Confucius state. On Pham Quynh could you please talk more about the role of Quoc ngu in revolutionizing our identity as Vietnamese. I believe that Quoc ngu helped broke free Vietnam from the constraints of Chinese domination in Vietnam culture, helped improved literacy and helped involved the mass and its oral tradition incorporated into the written language and into forming the wider Vietnamese identity. Could the professor share his thoughts about this idea? That was a theory I had and wrote a paper in college. My Caucasian humanity professor, not familiar with Vietnam gave me a grade C+. Hehe.
Noted! As the acting student in Prof. Pham’s class, I will raise my hand and ask him about your theory! Thank you for your class participation!
Thank you classmate Ken! Hopefully at the end of the courses he will give us all a virtual A+.
@kibu2008 buckle up! Professor Pham in da house!!
I have to say. Now living in vietnam and seeing all these red flags after the soccer match gave me a very uneasy feeling. Needless to say i am very much allergic to it 😅
Worst still is seeing the hammer & sickle flag being waved next to it while the crowds sang "Vietnam Hồ Chí Minh". It definitely felt more than just a soccer match between 2 nations
This happens to a lot of second generation diaspora folks. It’s a natural reaction to years of family dinner discussions. I totally feel you. It eventually fades but never goes away. It’s like a reverse scarlet letter
@TheVietnamesepodcast I don't know Ken. Personally it only intensified of the year and a half that I've been here. We'll see how it gets in another year 😅
Please lemme know how it goes next year. I’m interested in of changes for you.
btw gents, afghansitan also defeated 3 members of the U.N >> the british, the american & the soviet (russian) >> there's a lot that the panel needs to "review its claim".... ;)
Don't forget that Viet-Nam (Dai-Viet in 13th century) defeated the Mongols at the height of their power four times. No other group done that.
This is an important historical event in the timeline of the Vietnamese.
I am just thinking about why don't you two talking about Ho Chi Minh.
Hi Robert, we will be talking about Ho Chi Minh in a few more episodes. We are building up to him and other figures around his time that are important to understanding the shift in modern Vietnamese society.
Do you think this is one of those superficial characteristics of the Vietnamese person in general which have been criticized in the hundred years before by many Viet thinkers?
My guess is that if you go back a century to many countries that weren’t exposed to modern thinkers from the Enlightenment, that might be the pervasive characteristics of the people. This is not just a Vietnamese characteristic but many other developing countries. We just happen to only discuss Vietnam on this channel. But as you put it, it is a superficial characteristic that we use to illustrate a point.
1. In 1959, just four years after the birth of the Republic of South Vietnam, Vietnam had already won a soccer match against Thailand in the first competition among Southeast Asian countries.
ua-cam.com/video/HssQtiKTlic/v-deo.html
I hope you guys understand the Vietnamese in the above video.
2. The Yellow Flag of the South has already been in the past. Young Vietnamese do not need to disrespect that Flag but should recognize and respect the genuine compassion of those who sacrificed and died for it in the past. They should not waste time and energy quarreling about the past Yellow Flag; it's only a heritage Flag now, not representing any country.
Oh c’mon, just one soccer match, guys!? What about NATIONAL SHAMES, since 1975 until now! Which parts of Vietnam you went to i wonder.
India the continent and India the country back then and now still opted for and caste system, religion, ethnicity and nationalism after colonialism as theirs "cultural identity" and "tradition". So no wonder Tagore turned away from that. About the differences between the East and the West's education it's important to look at not only the content and the value of theoretical works but more importantly the implimentation and the outcome of that implimentation with different intended and unintended subjects. Otherwise we will just keep failing, keep praising those stand alone 'art pieces' from Laozi and Confucius, Hinduism etc and then turn to religion for answer till Kingdom come. They are fantastic works and researches but they are not the end all, be all principles of truth for all people as many tried to make them out to be then got lost in the sauce.
This is a very stupid question. If the Vietnamese couldn't think for themselves, there wouldn't be a country called Vietnam today.
Would you say the same thing if it was the 1920s (the period we discuss in this episode) when the Vietnamese were dominated by the French? In 1923, why did Nguyen An Ninh criticize the Vietnamese for not thinking for themselves? Do you think he is wrong, and, if so, why?
K, why are you not proud to be a Vietnamese? only love the culture? after all, you are Vietnamese...
I mean Kenneth
Great question! I did nothing to be proud of being Vietnamese. I just happened to be born into the culture. How can someone be proud just because they were born into something? Instead, I have over the years developed an unconditional love for the Vietnamese culture. And I love the Vietnamese culture because I’ve studied it all of my life and am getting more informed about what it is. Therefore, allowing my love for Vietnamese culture to increase every day. You can say I am proud about my understanding of the culture. But I don’t think I experience pride just because I was born Vietnamese. Hope that helps explains your question.
The vnese good at united and fight but come to business they confused
Just like your name 'sus'. Your statement is sus.
Vietnamese have some of the best business people in and outside of Vietnam.
Thanks so much ..This channel is my go to Sunday morning coffee listen. Per your conversation about East vs West goals in formal education...Albert Einstein is often quoted as saying, "Don't memorize what you can look up". Quite the opposite of the Asian approach.