What picture profile to use? Lumix HLG vs CineD vs Natural
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- Опубліковано 4 лип 2020
- What picture profile to use? Lumix HLG vs CineD vs Natural
It can sometimes get confusing when deciding what picture profile to use. In this video I share my experience after over a year of using all of them.
Learning color grading can take a long time and sometimes the Natural color profiles are just good enough. What picture profile to use largely comes down to how much time you're ready to spend in post.
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#colorgrading #pictureprofile #Lumix - Фільми й анімація
Thank You!!! great info...so many people make you feel like you have to shoot a flat picture profile when I have found my natural picture profile looks the best with a little color correction and a luts sometimes, with lowered intensity.
Thank you for this. Exactly what I was looking for...
Perfect! Thank you for the comment Maui
Loved that. Thank you! The universe brought us together!
Glad you found this video useful!
@@JonBear I did! Went on to film a fifteen hour wedding day in cineD!
@@PurpleBikeMedia Amazing hope you deliver good results!
Thanks for that video, it’s helped me out a lot as a beginner to video.
Awesome Andrew. Glad to hear that! Give me a shout if you have more questions
Bang on, well done. I'm going to see what else you got.
Thank you so much Chris! I am currently experimenting with more CineD conversions and I might make a somewhat "followup" video on this one.
@@JonBear I adore HLG. The only problem I have with it is the difficulty to expose consistently. It needs a monitor. Shinobi pairs well with it.
That's it! It needs spot on whitebalance too
Thank you for this! I have a simple GX80, I'm interested in colour grading but I mostly end up leaving the footage as Natural and maybe upping contrast/saturation wherever I need to because I think part of me feels like I need to replicate the original look as best I can. I think getting out of that and experimenting more with CineD will be fun though :) Seeing the ungraded and graded is really interesting, thanks for making this!
Thank you Nancy! Yeah I'm shooting CineD on all my latest videos. It takes extra time to color grade but it's an enjoyable process for me. Give it a try, film something colorful then try to edit it
Jon you’re amazing, keep up the good work 😉
Thank you Madjid!! 👍👍💗
Jon Bear, love your work thanks for the tip. CineD & Natural less work & VLog more work hassle
Such an amazing video Jon!
I am a beginner and this cleared a lot of things for me.
I like your way of teaching / explaining. Just technical enough without being too tecnical, showing practical examples and adding a bit of humor!
Liked and Subscribed!
I will have to shoot a corporate video for a friend of mine that has a metal fabrication factory/shop floor.
The video will include external shots of the production facility, interior shots of machines and people and maybe an interview shot.
Which Picture Profile would you recommend?
Natural or Cinelike 2D? Or something else?
This is a Great video! Ty for sharing it!
Glad you enjoyed Luis!
Thanks for this - was curious about using the HLG for real estate but I don't have an external recorder - I'll stick with CinD for now! Cheers!
Totally! Yeah I believe CineD is a perfect match for real estate
Great comparison Jon. I saw some wildlife on your Natural profile intro, may I know whats your recommended settings under the Natural Profile? Is it all flat (-5)?
I keep saturation at -2 but other things at -5. Most importantly keep the sharpness to -5. I am shooting a lot with the Pocket 4K now which has no built in sharpening and the GH5 is still sharp at -5. In fact it's the perfect amount of sharpening I'd say :)
I like this video so much. Good job bro. When you shoot in natural pp, did you set white balance manually or just auto wb? I tried your settings(natural sharp -5) but my S5 didn't give the color what I expected.
Thank you! Maybe try to reduce saturation slightly? I don't know if they changed their color science for the S5 but it could be
For talking head shots type videos for UA-cam i think i'll use the natural profile. Paid projects i'll be using CINED. Thanks for this video!
That's a pretty good plan! Glad this video helped!
Yes I think ill go back to the same. Just shot VLog for the first time for a client, phew what an art form that is. Never used Natural before only Standard but ill give it a go for the next batch of UA-cam.
I'm new to video but I have experience in photography for a while now.
I have a huge recommendation to anyone having trouble with overediting Video/Photo:
always keep your original version on the side, it helps you to see when you are editing too much and always seeing the original (ungraded) helps me to reset my brain and not going over the top with editing. Also it helps you to see your progress and it will make grading just a bit more rewarding to always see how far you already got :P
It’s very knowledgeable and interesting video 👍
Thank you brother! ❤️❤️❤️
1:46 I saw the same contact juggler the other day, he's still outside Shinjuku in winter.
what a boss! I should show him this video. If he has social media I'd definitely link him up!
I like your style son good video, I’m one of the veterans using gh5 great camera
Thank you Mick that means a lot! The GH5 has been through a lot with me and never failed. Frozen in a waterfall, sandstorms in dubai, and most recently filming a volcano here in Iceland haha
Another excellent video!Speaking of profiles, would you recommend upgrading to V-Log for the G9 even if only using it for 8 bit shooting (my computer is a mid 2015 mac book and FCPX will just not process 10 bit).Thanks Jon!
Thank you George! I honestly don't recommend v-log unless you shoot 10 bit. I have seen people color grade with v-log 8 bit and skin-tones will quickly turn green/yellow.
On top of that, you already have access to HLG (for free) which gives better dynamic range in 10 bit. It's what I use now when matching my GH5 with the Blackmagic pocket 4k
As for your old hardware, I recommend using proxies! I still use proxies for everything I edit. Makes it a breeze to edit on my desktop and my old laptop when I am on the go! Once I discovered proxies, I started shooting everything in 10bit 4k without any worry about the slow editing. Proxies make everything super fast
@@JonBear Awesome thanks Jon - I will look it up and see if I can edit 10 bit on my 2015 work horse. Appreciate all the insight!
@@GeorgeMariosofficial Good luck!
I always used cinelike d in my panasonic g7 . I purchased a sony a6400 and was so confused with all the log gammas and color spaces. I eventually narrowed it down to HLG 2 with a rec 709 color space with saturation down to minus 15 really easy to grade . The sony camera is harder to get a good exposure in brighter light and honestly much prefer Panasonics color science.
HLG2 from Sony is actually the worst option, the best one is HLG3 followed by HLG1 since HLG2 has tendencies to crush details.
awesome video!
Thank you!
I love your enthusiasm! New subscriber here :)
Great video! Have you ever tried V-Log in combination with Aces workflow in DR? It will blow you off. Perfect colors and skin tones, no conversion LUT required, highest dynamic range, etc.
I use it even for my iPhone Clips taken with Filmicpro and Log-2 profile.
I haven't heard of it. I will need to check it out. Currently I am exploring the Arri Alexa conversion from Emotivecolor (dot) com
It works with GH5 cineD and it is pretty wild!
Which Aces? There are several. Would you mind sharing your settings with us.
@@genesisjlopez2854 There are mainly the cc and the cct version. you can go with both. the cct version has a softer highlight rolloff, as far as I remember.
But in the meanwhile, I completely stepped back from ACES and towards
- timeline set to Rec709, Output to Rec709 gamma 2.4
- Transforming my V-Log into Arri gammut and Arri-Log-C gamma at the front of my node tree. Reason: Arri colors behave so beautiful when grading in DR.
- at the end of my node tree I convert from Arri-colors in Log back to Rec709 with a combination of DR color transform and Kodak 2383 Film Print Emulation nodes.
Take a look at my most recent footage to see wheter you like it or not.
@@joyoffilming9500
Thank you so much for your response. I’ll have a look.
I shoot natural with the Gx85, with -5 contrast - 3 sharpness - 2 noise reduction - 5 saturation. then in post, i just add more contrast depending on the scene and also add some extra saturation. seems to work well every time.
Just as a tip, reducing contrast and saturation IN CAMERA is only making you lose information, you're not gaining anything that way, when you add the contrast and saturation back, you'll have less information than if you just left it in the camera. It was a widely believed myth that lowering that will give you more dynamic range, but it doesn't in any profile
Cine V - Contrast -5/Sat -5/Sharp -5/NR-5 - - Better actual highlight rolloff, blacks are way less noise. Gives you safe editing room. I live by this profile
i m a bit confussed now, cinedlike v2 is like v-log? i thought v log had the most dr in the lumix cameras, or are you talking specific for the GH5?
I dont think the lumix has a v log. He said the cinelike D has the most dynamic range, better for colour grading. I haven't decided yet if that is true. I'm also considering Cinelike V which I think, at the moment, is slightly better than Cinelike D.
Very nice video!!!
Thank you Vass!!! Glad you enjoyed
Question about profiles. With VLOG vs. Flat, does Flat have to be converted to Rec 709?
Natural is supposed to handle LUTs well, but I wasn't sure if flat needed converted first before Flat handled LUTs well.
I do apologize in advance because I am posting an old video, but I am a bit frustrated with the profiles in my GH5. I watched your Natural shots and are gorgeous, now I have a few questions: Aperture? WB? ISO? Lens? And did you touch the Natural settings? Thanks in advance
I am always happy to get comments! I slightly overexpose usually. Whitebalance depends on the scene, but I lean towards cool. Lens used in this video was the Sigma 18-35 (here is a popular video I made about it ua-cam.com/video/6hx21Cmfyh0/v-deo.html )
And finally, for natural profile I set sharpness at the lowest and slightly reduce the saturation. Then in post it's always possible to tweak saturation, whitebalance, or exposure if you are off.
@@JonBear thank you appreciated your help and I will give a try with those settings 😀
lovely what settings do you use for natural and cine d saturation, contrast and hue
Great video! Do you change saturation,noise reduction,chroma,saturation at natural profile or Cine -D or you have them all to 0?
I reduce noise reduction and saturation slightly for both
What settings do you use for natural and cine-d?
Hi Jon, thank you for your video. Could you please help me to understand how would be the correct workflow when using GH5 HLG footage in Premiere Pro CC. I import clips BT2020 and how do I convert them to Rec.709? With just a Look Up Table (LUT)? If I dont do so ot will look like Vlog? Is the paid €100 VLOG worthy?
Good question! Premiere only works in Rec.709 so technically you can correct it yourself. However I HIGHLY recommend getting a conversion lut!
This one here costs only $5 and makes your HLG footage into VLOG, which saves you lots of money and makes it a joy to color emotivecolor.com/vlog
Alternatively, you can spend $35 to get the full Arri Alexa conversion which also includes the VLOG conversion in the pack for HLG. I use this right now in my latest videos. Find the pack here www.emotivecolor.com
@@JonBear I understand that with the last premiere update it does support BT2020. Have you checked this?
@@rodroyo I haven't looked into this! I guess it works similar to DaVinci where it converts to Rec.709? Either way I use the luts I linked before
@@JonBear thank you!
What do you think about “Flat”? Normaly I use that PP on my Lumix S5
Outside Pyeongtaek Train Station @4:51 in South Korea...but through lots of times.
Where is you the video you shot in HLG? Tried to look but don't see it. Thanks
Nicely lit head talk.
Thank you!
Great Video!
What are your settings for the natural profil?
I would like to know to please
Glad you enjoyed! For Natural I use,
Contrast -5,
Sharpness -5,
Noise Reduction -5,
Saturation -1,
Then in post all I do is adding a little contrast, adjusting exposure in the basic adjustment tab.
If you're using Premiere, I go to Color wheels and match, While I have my scopes open - Drag down shadows so that the blacks almost touch 0, Drag up highlights so they stay somewhere around 250, and then adjust midtones to keep everything mostly in the middle.
This is what I do for all my youtube talking shots. It looks amazing 95% of the time - and I rarely adjust clips individually - I apply the same basic adjustment across the board.
I have a history with color grading so of course, I dip my hand into it every now and then even though I shoot in natural 95% of the time currently
In this video I show how I graded my most recent trave film. Similar to what I mentioned in the previous reply, but I also use a LUT ua-cam.com/video/-RpCtHP9uPo/v-deo.html
Hi! Nice video. Have you change the settings of natural profile?
Yes I put Sharpness -5 😁
@@JonBear only that change?
Of that tru is Very good picture
@@JonBear only the sharpness?
man i want to learn more about hlg workflow, i use a 4k hdr monitor for my color grading and i want to produce more in HDR. HLG is also okay for Rec709 color space and it CAN be only Standard dynamic range. But the option to have HLG or HDR content is so amazing to me. it looks sometimes of and i have spend ours to grade it, setting up my editing software monitor etc, it is so much more work but i think it is very cool.
I also like HLG WCG. I blame watching too many Dolby Vision movies on UHD and Netflix and HLG programmes on BBC iPlayer. Vlog, natural etc doesn't cut it for me. Although i'm just starting out using HLG on the Lumix S5 and noticed that the colours are a bit too over-saturated. Any tips to fix?
@@KevinMullarkey hm use color correction and desaturate it
you can record 4k 60 10bit 4:2:2 with the gh5 externally
As a Sony user I am so jealous of the colors of the Lumix. Is there any way to get similar colors out of camera with a color profile on a Sony?
Probably! But I don't know how. Some color plugins probably can achieve splendid results. Good luck!
I feel the same, that's why I just sold my a7III for lumix S1, can't wait to arrive and test it out
I too sold my a73 for lumix s5 . I shoot video in portrait. And it gives amazing result..
Hi, thank you for sharing your very interesting video, You have a lot of experience and I would like to ask you a question x please: I only do documentaries in 4K, and as soon as I can I will go to Africa to film people with dark skin and strong sun, but not in the city , but in their villages. Would you be kind enough to tell me you would configure the GH5 MII? I mean which color profile, 25p 4: 2: 2 or 50p 4: 2: 0, etc. etc. However I use a good variable ND filter. I do the video editing myself. 1000 thanks for your advice.
Sounds like a very exciting project! Since you have GH5 MK2 you have access to Vlog picture profile. This would be ideal but it depends on you, if you are ready to color grade it and make use of the increased detail.
Personally I would probably film in CineD since it does well in dark details and is considerably easier to color grade. Then I would prioritize exposing properly for the dark skin. I am sure others will recommend Vlog profile but like I said, it requires a lot more effort to make it look good and so it depends on if you will color grade it yourself or have someone else do it.
As for framerate, I prefer 25p for any "normal speed" shots. 4:2:2 will give you massive file sizes and if you're on the road it may become challenging to manage all the data / memory cards + you need to buy really fast memory cards. Regular ones won't cut it. I'd make sure to ask around or do tests before you go so that you don't find yourself struggling mid-shoot.
Good luck!
@@JonBear Thank you so much for your suggestions, but as an alternative to the V-Log, which profile do you suggest under a strong African sun? How many ISOs should I choose if I use the V-Log or if I don't use it? Thanks again.
@@ExploringWorldUA-cam ISO is the last thing to consider when it comes to exposure- and it depends on how fast your lens is and how bright it is (different weather effects your settings)
So I always keep my shutterspeed consistent at 180 degrees. Then I set my Aperture. Then I set my ND, and only lastly do I do anything with ISO.
IF you're outside in bright conditions, you will keep your ISO at the lowest value no matter what. Then you need an ND on your filter to control exposure. I got a video about ND's
@@JonBear A last questions please. I understand your advide is precious. With CineLikeD do I have to configure Contrast, Sharpness, NR, Saturation and Tint in the GH5 MII menu?
Then ... about Luminance what can I choose exactly if I shoot in 25P 10bit and 50p 10bit? Thanks again.
Great video! Have you tried VLog-L? Will you?
I haven't used it no. I haven't bought the upgrade for it. Currently I am experimenting with the Arri Alexa GH5 conversion luts by Alex. It includes a conversion for CineD to Vlog as well. Really impressive stuff. So if I make a future video on picture profiles for GH5, then it will be on this conversion workflow :) Thank you brother!
How can I look at Panasonic models that at list has CineD profile?
Good question! At least I know G85, G9, GH5, GH5s, and their full frame cameras S1, S1H and S5 Have it
What do you think of 'Standard' profile? (-5 Contrast, -5 Sharpness)
I haven't tried it but if I did, I'd probably leave contrast as it is, but keep -5 sharpness. I haven't seen many people talk about this profile on message boards. People generally prefer Natural. I have seen a few people recommend Portrait too. There is no correct answer, find what you like best :)
Jon Bear aye I've found what I'm going to use for the next few gigs, was just wondering what people thought of it in terms of information retained or most flexibility in the edit, etc. We shoot documentary and corporate; the former wanting to have as much info for post grading so moved to VLog but the latter I'm tending to need a quicker turn around these days so am leaning towards Natural now. In between that Cine-D. But I'd been using standard for the lot previously. When i first got the GH5 i thought the in-built profiles (natural/custom/standard/etc) were all the same you just changed the settings to get the difference but realised that was wrong so I've been learning how crucial the choice is for the workflow.
@@SaiKelly standard with the various setting at -5 gives me best results I’ve ever had. I tried cine d and didn’t like how the color grading was coming out
Ayee 🔥lets goo
My maan!!🔥🔥🔥
Jon Bear i just posted to some new content yesterday too🎬 let me know what you think
I've been away a bit! I'll take a look soon brother
did you adjust the settings of the natural profile?
Minus sharpness but that's about it :)
Cine V - Contrast -5/Sat -5/Sharp -5/NR-5 - - Better actual highlight rolloff, blacks are way less noise. Gives you safe editing room. I live by this profile. Also you dont have to spend all day trying to make it look good!!!
Great input! I never tried Cine V honestly because I haven't seen it discussed a lot. Might need to give it a go!
Isn't it too contrasty? The idea of log and log-like profiles is to have an image that is as flat as possible, in regards to both saturation and contrast...
@@JonBear I just tried these settings and it looks really close to natural. Please try to make a video on this configuration. I am going to try this in today's shoot and I will let you know how it turned out.
@@Thelocalguide Please! I'd love to see the results. Yes I have checked some GH5 groups on CineV and it looks really similar to Natural bit more dynamic range.
I've been using this a lot i really really like the look straight out of camera
Was all of this footage shot with the GH5?
Yes it's my main camera. Incredible ibis makes me bring it everywhere 👍
Really interesting information. I think I'll better stick to the natural picture profile until I'm more skilled in color grading. Thank you so much for this video! 🙂
How far you can go on your GH5 in ISO to not introducing noise.
1200 is alright, 1600 if you really need to push.
If you have a fast lens, mostly you'll never need to go beyond 1200. I have a low light video you can check for more info
I'm gonna play with Natural profile. If I can speed up my editing without having to waste time color grading then I will keep Natural profile
Awesome! You'll be blown away by the great skin tones
I recommend Cinelike V if you dont want to colour grade.
Why are you talking so fast? your clip is good content - it makes it unnecessarily hard to follow in my opinion. nevertheless, thank you for a good video.
Appreciate the tip! I talk fast because it makes me look smarter than I am
@@JonBear Good reply, keep it up!
It’s better to just tell them to turn it down lol
Allow me to completely disagree. HLG is actually great straight out of the camera and wants no grading at all! It Only needs color space conversion, which is done automatically on Resolve Studio, it's one click on the faulty FCPx, and probably on Premiere too (don't use the latter, I hate it and abandoned it years ago). And it's GORGEOUS on a Rec 709 screen. Not to mention it's the best for night shooting, noise in shadows up to 3200 is non existent, and even in 4000 ISO it's very minimal (on the G9)
Glad you have good experience with it! Good to know resolve automatically converts it. I might try it more with the Arri Alexa conversion from emotivecolor.com . For Premiere and Finalcut, it's hard to recommend a picture profile that requires paid third party lut conversions. Especially for beginners.
@@JonBear you don't have to use any paid luts, I don't use them either. In Final Cut, all you have to do is select the correct color space of the clips in timeline from the inspector, BT2020 if I remember correctly. Also, if someone wants to do it with a lut, Nick Driftwood has a free one that does just that (google it, there are also videos here).
An example : ua-cam.com/video/wxkNSbL8Veo/v-deo.html
Hey thanks for the info. Can you give more details about HLG and low light? Does it force you to use a higher base ISO? Is it available in 1080p (is there 1080p 10 bit)?
Bhagwan Singh you get the most DR when using 400-800 iso and I mainly color correct when using HLG. This profile really shines outdoors where it is so good in retaining highlights and shadows.
Can you advice any good tutorial to convert HLG footage in DR?
And how to adjust it on post properly?
Hello, what are your CineD settings?
I've played around but generally I like,
Contrast - 1,
Sharpness - 5,
Noise reduction - 5,
Saturation - 1,
And Hue is of course just 0
Some people keep noise reduction at 0. Personally I feel the look is more natural looking without noise reduction. Best to experiment! Please ask me anything if you've got more questions.
Also, the leeming lut conversion that I used for HLG also exists for CineD so that's worth looking into as well 😁👍
@@JonBear thank you very much for your answer. Do you have enough room for grading with Saturation -1?
Personally I believe it is enough since CineD is not a pure log profile. However I know a lot of GH5 shooters go with -5 across the board on all of them.
If you want to use LEEMING conversion on CineD, then you need -5 on everything except contrast, which is left to 0. That would probably be the best setting to try first.
@@JonBear OK, thank you man :)
Damn natural looks amazing lol
It's really quite something! Very beautiful and definitely recommended for faster shoots. But it's a bit of a baked in high contrast look so not much wiggle room in post
Jon Bear going to make my next car film using the natural profile to see how that turns out lol.
3:00 very true
I don't understand how to select HLG in Pana G9.
At least on GH5 you need to first set your recording to a 10bit setting. HLG is not available on 8bit
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Thank you man!
I see you shop at uniqlo too. Star Wars forever, son.
Uniqlo rocks!
natural works great
Everytime I switch back to it I am blown away by how nice it is. It takes so much hassle out of the workflow
@@JonBear for real!
Wouldn't you need a monitor that supports HDR. I don't have an HDR monitor so I haven't tried HLG.
It's backwards compatible and your editing software will put it in rec.709 so you can make use of the dynamic range from HLG :)
You talked about picture profile forgetting to talk about it settings
Hey that's my home district. 2:22
So cool!! Due to my job I am in Bangkok every now and then. Well.. before the pandemic. Now I am stuck at home making youtube videos haha
good ep mate #amitabhdayal actor filmmaker
Thank you brother!
By "Natural" profile do you mean the default Natural profile, or do you tweak it?
I lower sharpness to the lowest, and also slightly reduce saturation but it is personal preference.
im using only cine D hahaha
You can't see my face, you liar!😂
there is no such thing as LOG-type / LOG-based.. either its log or its not
Cinelike D is a flattened profile but doesn´t require as much work as V-log so that´s why I would say that
CIneD is NOT log
Something wrong with your hands? Buy some handcuffs.