I used to play Cho'Gath top and I didn't play him because he's an amazing niche pick or that I was a savant with him, but because getting HUGE is possibly one of the most gratifying things in this game, and honestly don't we all want to enjoy the simpler things in life?
I just want his Q radius scales with his ult stacks, also make his Q animation slower with ult stacks. It's super weird that he is so big late game but his Q piercing area is so small.
Thinking about it, Cho'gath plays more like a Juggernaut more than a pure tank. Maybe he needs a rework but not such a massive one, as his giant zoning and execute abilities can become pretty reliable with some tweaks.
yes. All cho'gath mains know he is more quasi juggernaut in the same vain that Dr. Mundo is. You run people down and keep them glued to you with your abilities (q catch, w keeps them helpless, e keeps them slowed)
@@jomsies Glue in this context is comparative to other juggernauts. Q>W>E is comparable to the likes of Mundo's chain Qs or even Darius' W-E. Cho is good at "gluing" combo champs like yasuo riven or zed. Obviously Cho falls short of catcher supports like naut, morgona or leona. But then again, they don't have the same kill potential as Cho.
give him some form of (true) max HP % damage resistance, if its through items, runes, or small rework. like vars said, all new champions/reworks got some form of HP scaling damage. its retarded to be honest.
@@VarsVerum Except Akali's is a skillshot, it feels more fair to play against than Cho'Gath looking at you and saying "your free trial of League of Legends has expired".
I remember the first time I saw Cho'Gat it was on my team, I played Malphite and was surprised by BIG boy being bigger than living mountain lad, plus seeing how them one-nommed-killed every champion he went against and carrying the Baron kill sold me. Since then he became one of my mains.
Cho'gath is probably one of the most fair champions in the game. He is waaaay too fair. No one is ever like "Damn, there is nothing I couldve done about cho'gaths [insert anything about him here]". Especially since they changed Gargoyle's.
I love cho. Getting to his huge size is so satisfying and I’ve done things like just sit at a turret and take it down while the entire enemy team tries to throw everything they got at me, and I still take it down and just walk away. He’s the perfect “I’m so tanky I don’t give a fuck” champion.
This is also why I like playing Shyvana too. Being big isn't just a choice. It's a lifestyle. And I love just being able to walk around the map, not give two craps, take out towers, take out objectives and then just keep it moving.
I'm a Cho'Gath main and honestly I think that if his q and w cast time was just shortened and maybe if their area of effect was a bit larger, he would be main line tank/tanky mage champ.
@@reliusornez1448 I was thinking the same doesn’t his e already have that? Edit: that would also make his scaling feel pretty crazy to be for real though I think that he would become kinda broken with that though. My guess would be if they do that his ap scaling would be nerfed since a lategame aoe ability that big, which has more cc and damage than an Orianna ult and a 3-4 second cooldown would basically mean the enemy team will die to perma cc and even if you dive him he will just eat you instantly.
I've been playing him since season one. Still love nomnoming people but I think your right. That q is very difficult to hit and you basically need to stand on someone's toes to have a good chance of hitting w. He's an old champ and it shows. The pace of the game was very different in 2010. The skill of the player was very different than. Now even bronze and iron players know to watch out for a cast animation and kite and know where it's likely to land.
@@VarsVerum and is fun when you get fed and watch 5 ppl hit on you for 30 seconds and then walk away like nothing happened heal with warmoge's and get back in the fight i have made some ppl quit like that is soul crushing watching using your ultimates on someone in 1v5 he escaping and be back to full
Cho gath really really needs a rework, I just want his ult to be the same, his passive is the one that needs the rework the most, it’s way too underwhelming especially for a champ who can get 6000 permanent max hp easily, perhaps change it to a percentage of max hp and mana making him scale more or have the amount that he regens increase based upon how many stacks he has allowing the passive to at the very least stay relevant
Hmm, I think he's in an alright place for his role. Once you play him a lot you learn when to hold your Q. His best role is to basically sit on the friendly ADC and zone enemies off of them with the threat of silence->Q->Feast. His passive is boring but it's actually kind of insane the amount of longterm sustain it gives, he'd be probably the worst laner in the game without it or some comparable sustain. (it's telling though that it was originally there to help him jungle)
As boring as his passive is, its what allows him to actually live and win lane to get to late game big health. You can basically out sustain anyone if you play a good cho and CS well early
I would say that the main reasons he's less popular are that he has trouble dealing with all the different forms of mobility that have crept their way into league and his ability a zone of control tank is tied so heavily on a slow skillshot that locks you into place that it effectively doesn't exist for more mobile champions. I'm not saying that he doesn't come with gratification when you do occasionally hit the rupture, but that it's far more scary to check if nunu is in the bush ulting or orianna's ball is sitting between you and your intended destination than it is to say "nah man, i'll just use if cho aims perfectly and otherwise will just sidestep it.
You popped into my recommendation Vars so that mean you're getting traction! Keep up the work I've been binging your vids :) they're so good and relatively unique.
Camille has his Ult on a 5 second cooldown and on top of that she has a screen long dash that stuns, 2 auto attack resets, a heal that slows in an area and an unescapable jarvan ultimate that makes her invulnerable long enough to dodge attacks, spells and even turret shots. And even with all that I still would rather play Cho'gath than her just because he's Voidzilla and I have loved him ever since I started to play this game all those years ago.
yes as a cho'gath main this video hurts me. his mobility is his biggest weakness, and ive been finding success with approach velocity, relentless hunter, and predator recently (not necessarily all of those in the same build), as well as spellbinder as an ap righteous glory. chilling smite with nimbus cloak is also effective, but it requires you to be in smite range which is kinda short. and it is true that ap cho'gath isnt a proper tank with only tons of hp and no resistances, but thats irrelevant as ap cho never tries to be a tank, he is more of a cc heavy mage thats not as easy to one shot. as for tank cho'gath, idk, i just play ap jungle cho'gath. if riot reworks cho'gath, as a cho'gath main i demand that his high ap ratios stay, his execute stay, feast stacks stay in some form, and his potential build diversity stays (how all of his features in one champion make it really fun optimizing builds for him and theorycrafting new playstyles with him) theres probably stuff i didnt mention here thats relevant, but im not gonna sit here and pour out every detail and thought and comment i have about cho'gath into this comment section
i could understand his 100% ap ratio which is on a 4 second cooldown being nerfed, but if it is not fundamentally the same, i will riot. i could accept lowering the ratio in exchange for lowering the delay. that would help him engage much better and help his mobility issues a bit. having his only ranged cc be so kite-able is his second biggest weakness id say
Wait. So when you say the video hurts you do you mean as in you feel offended? Or you relate to it in a painful way XD I don't see the part where you say my video is trash.
I really like Cho just because for me he enbodies perfectly the concept of a "meat shield". He does not have any habilities that work specifically towards protecting his allies, but still does so by simply being in front of them. He's so huge that even if the enemy aims at someone else, they still end up hitting Cho. His "protective ability" is literally just his hitbox size.
Just off the top of my head, without watching the video yet: -Dated visual design, both in his model and his abilities. -Similarly dated gameplay design, a lot of champs really show their age nowadays and Cho is no exception. -Extremely reliant on killing things with R, which is both a) kind of awkward and b) high risk/meh reward in terms of scaling, requires either getting kills or clearing the jungle. -He’s a monstrous champion, which will on its own will knock his popularity way down compared to humanoid characters. -Generally not very strong/meta. -The scariest part about Cho’Gath is when he gets big, he’s *really big*. But a lot of other champions do the same thing with stronger and less “feast or famine” kits. I hope Cho’Gath gets a VGU soon enough; given his age, I don’t doubt he’s on Riot’s list for VGU candidates, but given the states of various other dated champions, he’s probably nowhere near the top. They’ve already publicly stated that they have issues with Mundo & Nocturne, and Shyvana and Udyr are notorious for aging very poorly; Shyvana’s issue being her kit and Udyr his visuals. So Cho likely isn’t getting touched any time soon. Womp womp.
Tbh I really hope Shyvana gets her vgu sooner than say... 2022-2023? Because if we are only getting Mundo this year and Udyr is the first of 2022, assuming she is the first next vgu, it's still like a year and 2 thirds until she gets a vgu at minimum :(
As someone who played Cho'Gath a lot and as to how the game is now, I can say that his problem might not be the lack of "gap closer" but rather the lack of disengage/get-off-me/escape-tool. I totally agree with the problems you stated in Cho's kit, but giving him a gap-closer kinda ruins his identity as the godzilla of League and in-game it removes the only thing that effectively counters him "distance" (Imagine godzilla being so mobile or just dashing around). I also agree that his passive is lackluster, and I would also like to add that his w is the weakest-link in his actives. A solution I can think of is a mini-rework on his passive and w,.Maybe give his passive something that scales from his R stacks (maybe tenacity or resistance/damage-reduction (cause it's so funny how some champions just melts a 5k HP Cho'Gath faster than other tanks). As for his W, what I can think of is to change it to the old Volibear E (except remove the knockback and slow but it applies fear even to champions), this way he will have a "get-off-me" tool that can also make landing his Q quite-easier and reliable since you have another cc in a form of fear. It also makes much more sense for Cho'Gath to inflict fear than to silence enemies, they can also give it the "E" treatment where its AOE increases in proportion to Cho'Gath's size.
i played cho, 50 games back to back to get him to level 7 and max eternals. i played against every kind of toplaner. but i could never say whats wrong. and why it doesnt feel so good. you hit the nail on the head. this is so true. cho gath is somehow kindy squishy, i mean he is big in size so he gets hit with everything. but he has nothing against it. nothing. you can just run and hope you live trough it. sion can r away and shield himself. an ornn has a w that makes him unstoppable. but have you ever played cho against vayne thresh? you get with every cc spell, while vayne just stack true dmg on you. if you try to get to her she uses q, e or r nothing you can do. back to the point i mostly won my lane like even darius and teemo, only adcs and aatrox can lanebully you so hard that it is unplayable (tank shred champs aside). so im like 3/0/0 with first tower, most farm. but if i get engaged i can do shit. even if im tankiest mf alive. true dmg and cc will wear you down. but you have no counter against that. so a resistance or tenacity buff to disengage would be great. all in all i think cho shows the drastic difference between old league and new league.
About being able to land Q: as a top player his Q usually requires mobility skills to dodge, and has a low cooldown (so unless he's laying against Gwen or Fiora, he gets his Qs in during enemy cooldowns). If he freezes he can spam Q, walk up during knockup and E for quite a lot of damage. His high health is more to be used against towers in the sense where when he gets good stacks he can dive rather reliably (when I play chogath after laning phrase I just get to ignore towers).
When I first started playing midseason 6, Cho was the only interesting character to me. I saw his ult, and it looked like the only thing in this game that did big damage. His jungling was safe, his cc helped me catch people, and that ulti felt very good.
The hardest thing about being a One Trick Cho like I am is matchups, there is a sea of champions that utterly counter Cho’Gath, despite him being an easy champ to play, he’s not easy to one trick, especially when you get up past mid Gold in ranks
Cho'gath (AP or Tank) is ironically a pretty decent low elo champ. No one else on your team will play a tank, people can't dodge his q, they don't respect feast damage, and most importantly, it lets you be a second jungler for your team in the midgame in case yours is crap.
Cho'gath will always have a special place in my heart, together with Kayle and Kha'zigs, in that I dont play him often, nor do I like to play them normally given that they are so easily screwed in early game and made absolute useless because of it, but they give a sorta of feel of acomplishment with the transformations. It goes bad more often then not, but when it goes good it is amazing and that is why at least once for season I play them and only them for about a month.
ah yes gone are the day of building cho with atmas sunfire force of nature leviathan and warmogs just running crazily into the enemy team and forcing them to focus you because the fat bastard of a spikethrower wont quit no matter what you do. damn i miss those times
Cho main here. You pretty much nailed it. Only thing is that in situations where the enemy doesn’t have a good shredder (think Yi, Vayne, Brand, etc) you can build AP + resistances and you’re kind of OP. Your high amount of HP allows you to invest more effectively and become tankier for way cheaper. So in those situations I still think that Cho can be very very good (and even if there is a Yi, if you just kill him with ult it works) What I mean is that he can work. But as you said he has a lot of weaknesses that keep him from being actually viable
I have an idea for what they can do to bring his consuming concept into a bigger role. Cho'Gath should adapt to what type of champ he'd last consumed, meaning that wich type of champ he'd eaten last his abilities will adapt to it, eat a tank, become buff, eat a slayer, become sleaker and mobile, eat a ranger gain one or more ranged abilities.
I actually played that I chilled at recently and I found him quite effective. I built take and got to 6k hp. I was a big boi. The main issue I had was limited range and very slow movement. Those are his biggest issues. He's actually on the right radar for champions riot wants to rework and has been there for quite a long time. Another champion that's also been on the list for a long time is rammus. Is gameplay is roll up to them and just stand there when they slowly die.
Same. But it's sad that the 2021 rework voting list just shows up. Rammus and Cho'Gath not even on the list so maybe they aren't getting any rework in a short time.
I love chogath but i would love for him to feel more like a huge void monster, a built in approach velocity / mini dash on a cc'd target for passive (with an all fours running animation) , and his silence to be like a rumble q but obviously not as long, where enemies are silenced as long as they're in the cone whilst he is screaming. That way he could consistently lock and dps a target down if they try to dive his carries and extend his ability to protect them, whilst also allowing for enemy teams to counter it by ccing him from outside the cone. He's a tank with insane burst potential at the tradeoff of super tankiness and i think thats kind of a nice niche, they just need to modernise him a little bit to help him deal with mobility creep and make him not look so goofy.
Hail of Blades/Titanic Hydra. Ghost/smite and run people down from the jungle. Probably some of the most fun you can have on a champion while still being effective 😉
Just imagine to see Ekko try to come and invade you JG but he found out that a giant faking dinosaurs say nope and that faking eat him. This is one of the more funny stories of mine about how people fail to think that Cho have the ability to 1v1 all champs pretty ez. Like hi don't have many counters. Only Fiore is a problem but like a good cho can anticipate the dash of the enemy
I think why people dont play Cho'Gath is because they are having problems getting stacks and thats where Cho'Gath is good so you need to get stacks as much as possible.
Didn’t touch cho gath until I got a skin for him and while him being really slow and unable to close distances is definitely an issue slowly growing larger and eating people with his ult is the most satisfying thing to me
You made a really good point chill gas is a predator themed champion but has no moves that actually get him close to his prey they could totally just add a little bit of movement speed on his q after you land it and I think that would make him pretty solid. Extra style if they make him look like the T-Rex running in Jurassic Park when he's doing it. Alternatively they could go to the wack ass option and have him run really fast and leave ruptures behind him.
Cho'gath was my first top laner I really learned, and I mained him for a while before moving on to other top laners like Urgot, and Malphite (although recently, I have been learning Irelia as a pocket pick.) Ultimately, I like being big, and being a sort of landmark focus of a team fight that everyone else fights around, as well as being a high damage threat. That being said, not having a dash or a shield really hurts, and his sustain is so situational that it barely matters outside of laning phase. Compare that to someone like Warwick who I main in the jungle. He has a similar life steal idea to cho's passive, but it WORKS so much better for him because he can go into a fight, get to low health, and run off, Q a scuttle, and get right back into the fight, or even regen health while in a fight by just turning on whoever is hurting him. Cho could really do with something even as simple as a heal on his Q or E, just to sustain through those longer teamfights.
As a Cho'Gath main, Cho is very fun when he gets big but it's hard to do that consistently because in teamfights half the time he just gets shreded and the other half he can't finish off the last ones because he's just too slow to
When i started playing i got stomped by an insane cho gath and ever since i am an cho otp i play him even if i get hard counterd he makes me so happy an his size scaling is beautiful i just rlly love him
Personally I think building tank+ a demonics is a pretty good middle ground. Insanely tanky with do much HP, your R can almost one shot squishies (And it's VERY fun having both jungles fight over an objective, trying to calculate a perfect smite once it reaches 900 HP, then just walking in with your R and killing it when it still has 1500 HP) and with demonics and the tank items+your R stacks, you can easily get 100-150 extra AP from its passive, letting you get around 200 AP with one item while being extremely tanky. As long as the enemy doesn't have something like a Vayne, Cho'gath is a really good pick
Just one thing if u play him like an burst mage/assassin u just need to buy oracle lens and stay in bushes and then q and the enemy don't expect and u can 100/0
This video made me think more about Cho'Gath nad what made him good both as a tank and a mage, so i got inspired and i'm going for a takny mage with everfrost as first complete item Enough resistance for duels and fights, enough damage on all skills to handle various situations and mix/max -ing both E and R damage Somehow it's working well
Cho is a great champion, he just seems week because of all the super OP new champions have released the last few years. Instead of nerfing these champs to being balanced, Riot inexplicitly decides to try to buff all the other champs up to that level leading to horrible balance and metas.
I will say you missed his primary utility as a tank. It sounds silly, but with proper positioning, you can force them to engage on you because skill shots that stop on champion hit can’t get past you, and even targeted abilities are difficult with how much Cho there is
5:00 I haven't played league in quite a while, so I am a bit behind. Who is that huge hero with the beetle like shell that is shown charging in during the push?
I would be willing to give up my vorpal e, if he could have a stomp or quake ability that would stun an area for a half second. That way you could just long play his abilities one into the other to try to wreck the enemy team if they stay bunched up. Quake them into place, to land your rupture, and silence them when they fall back down. Juggling the enemy champions and then eating one of them.
I still play cho quite often. The fact that I play top without flash and potential poke and run with his passive regen from minion kills catches many players off guard
@@d4s0n282 oh I'm well aware how useful flash is. I just stopped running it top on my main account no matter the champion and my alt doesn't run it at all
@@d4s0n282 when I was bronze people hated that I ran flash ignite instead of TP. I loved ignite so I said screw it I'm going tp ignite. Now I'm gold and still gaining LP. Especially since they buffed my main. I really do it now just because I like how I tend to run what people consider impossible and make it work
@@Gnarlton I agree that ignite is really good in low elo since it gives you soooo much pressure in lane, literally anyone should run it although tp is always better in high elo lol, I would switch back to flash ignite tbh but gl with your climbing
I don't think this video aged particularly well. Chogath has never been a considerably vague champion from my point of view, he's a consistent, not "oh god oh no there's CHOGATH" like you would for Yuumi, or Pyke, or Darius or Garen. It's not widely banned because he's not that hard to lane against, and shines in the late game, which at that point is not an issue of lane so bans kind of stop mattering as much. He is fairly balanced, and tends to see the most action mid to late game. Though I do think his passive needs a rework, as it is heavily underwhelming and just doesn't do a lot once you have over 2000 health. Maybe it scales with your feast stacks? I'm rambling, either way I genuinely think he's a well balanced character, just kind of lacks any 'special niche' other than being a big boi with more health and size than nearly any other champ. He's not really a tank even, more like some juggernaut made to absorb shots and just keep going, not mitigate or deflect... absorb.
Additionally, the point of him being so large is to absorb skillshots. He's meant to be a bastion for the lil squishy guys under him, and literally eat skillshots with his HP. Being big is his biggest downside; however it's one of his most effective reasons for being a tank. He's so large, you can't get past him with his silence, knock up and slowing E. He's less a warden, definitely not a vanguard. More like a protector, someone who basically can take as many hits as necessary to give his team the ability to push, he's a massive team player character, but still being able to carry with high magical abilities with CC. He's a niche, and a very team oriented one (which I personally have no problem with as league is, well, a team game lmao.)
Cho, in my maining him as AP mid, played far more like an AP Assassin as opposed to Warden. I would say that, even with tank cho being insanely good this season, they should give him some minor rework. One thing I had thought of is to make his q similar to nocturnes path where he gains movement toward people hit by it. Maybe make it a faster wave skillshot with the same range but less damage? Also they should make his passive scale off max hp and mana as opposed to a flat amount. It kinda falls flat right now.
I remember I used to play Cho when his sustain was so high you couldn't beat him in lane (when his e was a toggle). I loved using him, he wasn't flashy but it was so fun seeing top laners trying to kill you and failing. His lack of mobility wasn't an issue because you could just stand there farming while slowly poking the enemy out lane with your e. But after the runes rework, I stopped using him because the damage champions started to deal was so high he was no longer an option. Even worse, the change to his e removed his slow but reliable poke. And since now everyone has a dash or runs like they shoved a rocket up their butt, catching someone is almost impossible without some help or them messing up. I still have fun using in aram but he needs a rework that keeps his design and ult but updates the rest of his kit. I mean, he's my favorite champion just because I can run around the map being a huge ass dinosaur while humming the Jurassic Park theme. No other champion gives me that kind of satisfaction.
I'm a cho'gath main and I'd say the biggest drop off in the effectiveness of his kit is his passive. It is amazing in the laning phase, gives you much needed pieces of sustain, however like it was pointed out in the video; it just isn't useful anywhere else. I also want to say that this video pretty much entirely excluded mention of cho gath's E, the spikes! the spikes are faaaantastic and will likely become your main source of battlefield control when fighting against flighty teams which can dodge your Q. The percent health damage is nothing to sneeze at either, gaining more % damage for the number of Feast stacks you have, this really helps cho gath handle other more standard tanks, often out preforming your standard warden with the quick hits of % damage. I'd say that it's absolutely fair that Cho is an A tier champ fighting for a place against S tier champs. The mechanics for Cho are fairly simple, and thanks to his most recent major update, he becomes a fairly straightforward champion to pick up, play and find some fun satisfaction when he gets VERY big. It's fun! primarily, I think playing cho is just fun and rewarding. Does he need some quality of life updates to his kit? absolutely. But I think his most admirable quality is the satisfaction and fun that comes from playing Cho. tldr: this video is very on point! give cho a small rework pls riot
You bring up an excellent point with the existence of % hp damage negating Cho's biggest selling point, but Cho'gath's problem isn't so much that he needs a rework; it IS that he got reworked. If Riot were to revert his E to be an always-on toggle, he would have Morgana-level waveclear without spending mana, and that would enable him to seize initiative in wave control whether in top or mid. He would be like Yorick: he might not get any kills on you, but he gets plates, and you're absolutely going to lose tower if you ever have to back or roam. This would enable him to exert huge lane pressure, get gold without relying on kills, and restore consistency to the champion. 95% of his current passivity in lane can be traced to his E only lasting for a few hits, instead of how it was before where he could farm entire minion waves in 2-3 hits and then either roam, back to buy items, or drop Q-W on lane opponents to harass them while they were distracted trying to last-hit a huge wave under tower. This is how the champion was originally designed to work. Much respect for bringing up the old Talon silence. Talon also saw a lot less play once his silence was removed, for analogous reasons: the champion was similarly designed around "I play my own minigame, and if I succeed I don't have to interact with you except when I choose to try and kill you." It's understandable that many other champions had no counterplay against this, so it was deemed not fun and removed, but removing the core of a champion's unique gameplay leaves them in a kind of limbo. This is what you observed when you said playing Cho feels generic and not unique. His core dynamic (infinite free waveclear + sustain off that waveclear) was essentially removed.
As Cho' Gath main this is good to see Hope he get his w buffed (feels to useless taking into account all the types of silences there are with the new champions) Or that at least give it a visual improvement in its skins
The good news is that Cho'Gath's kit and design are not so problematic that some balance changes or mini-reworks couldn't fix him. It's more like certain aspects of his kit don't really work very well in the modern state of the game, and some elements of his kit don't synergize the way they should. The main challenge for fixing Cho'Gath is that he's got a kit that works best as a zoning champion with his ultimate being a unique execute that can effectively deal with a number of tanks, but his champion themes/lore emphasize his whole "devour everything and get stronger/bigger" aspect. That's not to say that you can't work with that, though: if you made his increased size have other effects (like increased movement speed, or tenacity, or increased AP, or something), then emphasizing his mage/zoning aspects would work just fine. I would, however, remove the whole "lose stacks of your size buff when you die" mechanic, because you don't want to turn him into a champion where he either establishes and keeps momentum and becomes too powerful or he gets ganked or outplayed once or twice and has a harder time recovering. Something like a more gradual build-up of scaling benefits/size (like with Veigar), with diminishing returns setting in the more you stack it to prevent it from becoming too powerful.
I absolutely love Cho'gath. My only problem with him has been that Riot has basically ruined things for him as so many champs have max health damage with the worst being Vayne on more consistent max health True damage. He just feels far too slow to deal with such high mobility and high damage. Something I would love to help him with late game is that his Q and W need to grow in size as he does along with cast range of his Q like his ult gets the more he grows. There is a cap of course as he has a size cap, but it would still help him so much.
In this season imo cho is not bad. I love him for being the big boi of league, and remembering how underwhelming he was last season, it is a pleasure to see him being at least B tier again.(I would personally say that he is A tier even)
Q is quite hard to land given that it also causes a brief pause on cast for the stomp animation. And I noticed this even only playing in the early days of mobility creep. OTOH once Feast is up you not only have an incredible execute but also effectively have an additional smite, which is excellent for objective control. Thematically, I would love it if they leaned into how his personality differs from the other void champs. Rek'sai is a mother and an animal. Vel'koz is an emotionless scientist. Kog'maw is a curious baby who doesn't comprehend the damage he does, which I think could make for a great blind idiot god style cosmic horror. Kha'zix wants to hunt and become strong. But Cho'gath is fully in tune with the Void's desire for all that is to Not Be, and to silence the voices of sapience.
Now Cho'gath doesn't have gap close problem with dead's man plate, force of nature and chimico punk : he is running at you with 650 movement speed and even champion like Jax can't escape.
A pretty stacked cho + lulu ult + that item that makes you bigger and gives shield (i dont know the name in english) is one of the funniest things I've ever been a part of in league, and I play since 2013
It’s nice when you’re a huge cho then the enemy calls you brain dead and you check their items and none of them have tank killer items nor do they have antiheal
Unless he has changed considerably since 2012 his role isn't really to fight. It's more to disrupt and herd. Basically using rupture to stagger the enemy and feral scream to stop them from using their abilities. Since he gains so much natural hp you can build more armor and mr to make him tanky and just eat a lot of skillshots with your face, your (hopefully)very big face. His true damage R is fucking devastating as well!
Comment from s11: being a full tank Cho one-trick since s7 tank rework, I insist on playing Cho till now as the problems mentioned in this video always exist and I think he really needs a rework(hopefully we can see it before s13). In fact, Cho should be the heaviest tank in League, but now, he's not even tanky as support. I love all his unique tank features, his Ult that able to due high true damage to enemies' front tank and increasing tons of maximum HP that make him being huge, and also the increasing size of his champion model along with ult's stacks. They make Cho be so special between other tanks. As you see, those are not his QWE but R and passive so please Riot designers, if any of you is reading this comment, don't bring them away, not like old Mordekaiser Ult or Aatrox passive, keep them.
I know this is a super old video at this point, but I wanted to say that I have come back to League of Legends and jungling choke ass has been absolutely amazing.ghost smite With the new items you can rush chemtank and warmogs with lucidity boot on predator with the item cool down rune in inspiration and futures market to make sure you get boots and a kindlegem early. Rush all of the cdr components of the items and start eating epic monsters like dragons or buffs as they stack infinitely. You can run into the enemy jg and eat their buff from them at over 1k hp left. And use your movespeed to get out. You can essentially take over the game with even half decent ganks starting very early and with an amazing health pool after clearing.
I mained Cho'Gath Top up until I stopped playing League, right around the time Rek'Sai was introduced. I love him _because_ he's slow, he gets big, and he can hit hard if built right. I came back late 2020 to find so many things had changed... Now I main Cho and Vel'koz XD
IMO Cho is built for Protobelt to fix mobility, and then Banshee's Veil and Zhonya's because they give AP + armor. For most mages the armor isn't very effective because you have such low HP, but Cho gets pure HP with his ult so it's very effective. Item haste lets you use the active of these very often and scale well
I really REALLY enjoy playing cho but I just think his q is incredibly hard to hit unless u can get a silence or slow off but that requires you to get close to the enemy which unless you flash isnt gonna happen often. so maybe finding a way close the gap as you said would be good without the need for an item or specicific rune set. Because if his q is too easy to land then that becomes a problem too I think.
If I were to rework Cho'gath, I'd move his E active to his passive, the spikes covering a wider area every few levels. Old passive stays though. Q can stay but maybe with some changes like instantly popping out when done point blank and a variable delay based on the distance cast from him. W can and ult can stay. His new E though... maybe he use his tail to deal damage in a cone at the target direction or a point-and-click stun that looks like Ridley's down B.
Chogath's size caps at the width of the mouth of the baron cave. I demand the ability to become large enough to consume the rift.
Lore Master
there are seperate amount of stacks possible of size/health/range/damage its not all the same
@@nalorakk7924 so cho gath has a lore now?
@@SevenRedSuns420 i wish he did
I used to play Cho'Gath top and I didn't play him because he's an amazing niche pick or that I was a savant with him, but because getting HUGE is possibly one of the most gratifying things in this game, and honestly don't we all want to enjoy the simpler things in life?
Nothing like being as big as their Nexus or looking Baron eye to eye with 10+ stacks
@@LabrnMystic damn straight
@@LabrnMystic That’s why I used to play him till my PC broke, got a new one now tho
@@LabrnMystic you mean 20+
gotta love all ad teams too,i just love tanking a full team for like 10 sec,then realize i dont have a team and eat someone
Everyone is saying chogath is brain dead but idc he gives me joy
Same it's just nice being huge
Chonk
I just got my 10 th gemstone from this event so I finally bought dark star Cho😁
If cho gath is barin dead tryndamere and garen are vegetables
I just want his Q radius scales with his ult stacks, also make his Q animation slower with ult stacks. It's super weird that he is so big late game but his Q piercing area is so small.
Vars: Why play Cho'gath? He is huge!!!
Me who plays Cho'gath: YEEES
Maximum B I G
I play him cus i get to nomnomnomnom
agree
Its true
Nomnomnomnom voice line is the best voice line in league :D
Honestly, as long as Cho'gath can still become huge, he will always be my main and always have a special place in my heart
Approach Velocity turns every ability into a speed boost.
Damn I totally forgot about that rune. I will try it out sooner or later.
Yep. It's a must for cho
well you just made me a Cho Gath support
@@emisolis4977 well chogath support is viable and can still carry with the new devient wardstone which +12% bonus health
@@AngelosDeNotitia what mythic would you go? still frostfire or something like imperial mandate?
Thinking about it, Cho'gath plays more like a Juggernaut more than a pure tank. Maybe he needs a rework but not such a massive one, as his giant zoning and execute abilities can become pretty reliable with some tweaks.
yes. All cho'gath mains know he is more quasi juggernaut in the same vain that Dr. Mundo is. You run people down and keep them glued to you with your abilities (q catch, w keeps them helpless, e keeps them slowed)
@@Vasses935 I’m going to agree he isn’t like any of the other tanks and fits in a box along with dr mundo and maplhite.
@@jomsies Glue in this context is comparative to other juggernauts. Q>W>E is comparable to the likes of Mundo's chain Qs or even Darius' W-E. Cho is good at "gluing" combo champs like yasuo riven or zed. Obviously Cho falls short of catcher supports like naut, morgona or leona. But then again, they don't have the same kill potential as Cho.
Maybe just give him a dash? Everyone has a dash now anyways.
give him some form of (true) max HP % damage resistance, if its through items, runes, or small rework. like vars said, all new champions/reworks got some form of HP scaling damage. its retarded to be honest.
Riot probably: "So, we make his R a point and click dash execute?"
COUGH AKALI
Point and click aoe dash execute that resets and stuns.
@@VarsVerum Except Akali's is a skillshot, it feels more fair to play against than Cho'Gath looking at you and saying "your free trial of League of Legends has expired".
@@100organicfreshmemes5 at least he has to walk up to you lol. Camille has cho R built into her Q
@@VarsVerum Late response because I didn't get the notification until now somehow, but yeah, Camille Q is dumb.
“Ok, little guy is big now.” New player facing cho gath
Them:"Who fed the Cho' Gath?!"
Me: *Been eating minions the whole game*
I remember the first time I saw Cho'Gat it was on my team, I played Malphite and was surprised by BIG boy being bigger than living mountain lad, plus seeing how them one-nommed-killed every champion he went against and carrying the Baron kill sold me. Since then he became one of my mains.
Cho'gath is probably one of the most fair champions in the game. He is waaaay too fair. No one is ever like "Damn, there is nothing I couldve done about cho'gaths [insert anything about him here]". Especially since they changed Gargoyle's.
Can't wait for Kog'Maw and Cho'Gath to finally get reworked together in 2046
Same
I love cho. Getting to his huge size is so satisfying and I’ve done things like just sit at a turret and take it down while the entire enemy team tries to throw everything they got at me, and I still take it down and just walk away. He’s the perfect “I’m so tanky I don’t give a fuck” champion.
This is also why I like playing Shyvana too. Being big isn't just a choice. It's a lifestyle. And I love just being able to walk around the map, not give two craps, take out towers, take out objectives and then just keep it moving.
I'm a Cho'Gath main and honestly I think that if his q and w cast time was just shortened and maybe if their area of effect was a bit larger, he would be main line tank/tanky mage champ.
Make his abilities get bigger as he gets stacks. Boom done.
@@reliusornez1448 I was thinking the same doesn’t his e already have that?
Edit: that would also make his scaling feel pretty crazy to be for real though I think that he would become kinda broken with that though. My guess would be if they do that his ap scaling would be nerfed since a lategame aoe ability that big, which has more cc and damage than an Orianna ult and a 3-4 second cooldown would basically mean the enemy team will die to perma cc and even if you dive him he will just eat you instantly.
@@tomwanders6022 yes, e is the only one that scales with his size.
I've been playing him since season one. Still love nomnoming people but I think your right. That q is very difficult to hit and you basically need to stand on someone's toes to have a good chance of hitting w.
He's an old champ and it shows. The pace of the game was very different in 2010. The skill of the player was very different than. Now even bronze and iron players know to watch out for a cast animation and kite and know where it's likely to land.
I dont main him,but,he is like my top 5 champs i play well with and being honest he is actually really fun,i think he is just underappreciated.
Yeah he can be quite enjoyable to play especially every time you nom nom on someone x3
@@VarsVerum and is fun when you get fed and watch 5 ppl hit on you for 30 seconds and then walk away like nothing happened heal with warmoge's and get back in the fight i have made some ppl quit like that is soul crushing watching using your ultimates on someone in 1v5 he escaping and be back to full
lol same. I try so hard to be a LeBlanc main, but sometimes I just have to accept my calling is with Cho and Annie
@@LandelRey Low ELO... I really felt that hahahahahaha :(
me with aurelion sol, NOBODY plays him but hes so overpowered and when you master him he can win 1v5s really easily
Best thing about Cho is even if you don't get fed or pop off, you can still walk around looking like a Raid boss.
why do i love to play Cho'Gath? he's the embodiment on how i think the Void works: survive, evolve, overcome.
how do you enjoy kha'zix then? now i think cho (and kog) should have evolutive abilities too...
@@sacha9957 I love Kha thematically but im afraid im not too much into assassins but yeah, i wish more Voidlings had evolution in their kit.
I believe cho’gath is a warden in the sense that he’s just a big target that’s just...in the way. He’s similar to a pillar that blocks a path
Cho gath really really needs a rework, I just want his ult to be the same, his passive is the one that needs the rework the most, it’s way too underwhelming especially for a champ who can get 6000 permanent max hp easily, perhaps change it to a percentage of max hp and mana making him scale more or have the amount that he regens increase based upon how many stacks he has allowing the passive to at the very least stay relevant
Hmm, I think he's in an alright place for his role. Once you play him a lot you learn when to hold your Q. His best role is to basically sit on the friendly ADC and zone enemies off of them with the threat of silence->Q->Feast.
His passive is boring but it's actually kind of insane the amount of longterm sustain it gives, he'd be probably the worst laner in the game without it or some comparable sustain. (it's telling though that it was originally there to help him jungle)
As boring as his passive is, its what allows him to actually live and win lane to get to late game big health. You can basically out sustain anyone if you play a good cho and CS well early
Tbh he should keep rupture too, it's iconic
Cho is already and still op tho with ap and tank options
He does not need a rework, it will be aatrox all over again.
I would say that the main reasons he's less popular are that he has trouble dealing with all the different forms of mobility that have crept their way into league and his ability a zone of control tank is tied so heavily on a slow skillshot that locks you into place that it effectively doesn't exist for more mobile champions. I'm not saying that he doesn't come with gratification when you do occasionally hit the rupture, but that it's far more scary to check if nunu is in the bush ulting or orianna's ball is sitting between you and your intended destination than it is to say "nah man, i'll just use if cho aims perfectly and otherwise will just sidestep it.
You popped into my recommendation Vars so that mean you're getting traction! Keep up the work I've been binging your vids :) they're so good and relatively unique.
Wooo algorithm go brrrr! XD Glad you're enjoying them!
Camille has his Ult on a 5 second cooldown and on top of that she has a screen long dash that stuns, 2 auto attack resets, a heal that slows in an area and an unescapable jarvan ultimate that makes her invulnerable long enough to dodge attacks, spells and even turret shots. And even with all that I still would rather play Cho'gath than her just because he's Voidzilla and I have loved him ever since I started to play this game all those years ago.
Just play Darius and go 2-0 in first 5 minutes
kinda funny that cho counters her
yes as a cho'gath main this video hurts me. his mobility is his biggest weakness, and ive been finding success with approach velocity, relentless hunter, and predator recently (not necessarily all of those in the same build), as well as spellbinder as an ap righteous glory. chilling smite with nimbus cloak is also effective, but it requires you to be in smite range which is kinda short. and it is true that ap cho'gath isnt a proper tank with only tons of hp and no resistances, but thats irrelevant as ap cho never tries to be a tank, he is more of a cc heavy mage thats not as easy to one shot. as for tank cho'gath, idk, i just play ap jungle cho'gath.
if riot reworks cho'gath, as a cho'gath main i demand that his high ap ratios stay, his execute stay, feast stacks stay in some form, and his potential build diversity stays (how all of his features in one champion make it really fun optimizing builds for him and theorycrafting new playstyles with him)
theres probably stuff i didnt mention here thats relevant, but im not gonna sit here and pour out every detail and thought and comment i have about cho'gath into this comment section
i could understand his 100% ap ratio which is on a 4 second cooldown being nerfed, but if it is not fundamentally the same, i will riot. i could accept lowering the ratio in exchange for lowering the delay. that would help him engage much better and help his mobility issues a bit. having his only ranged cc be so kite-able is his second biggest weakness id say
Wait. So when you say the video hurts you do you mean as in you feel offended? Or you relate to it in a painful way XD I don't see the part where you say my video is trash.
Predator works too
AP cho mod is really fun
Can’t believe people need to have a disclaimers in order to prevent people’s feelings from being hurt because they have no common sense.
That’s social media for you xD
I really like Cho just because for me he enbodies perfectly the concept of a "meat shield". He does not have any habilities that work specifically towards protecting his allies, but still does so by simply being in front of them. He's so huge that even if the enemy aims at someone else, they still end up hitting Cho. His "protective ability" is literally just his hitbox size.
Very roadhog
@@LordSeth-hf8ew Precisely!
Just off the top of my head, without watching the video yet:
-Dated visual design, both in his model and his abilities.
-Similarly dated gameplay design, a lot of champs really show their age nowadays and Cho is no exception.
-Extremely reliant on killing things with R, which is both a) kind of awkward and b) high risk/meh reward in terms of scaling, requires either getting kills or clearing the jungle.
-He’s a monstrous champion, which will on its own will knock his popularity way down compared to humanoid characters.
-Generally not very strong/meta.
-The scariest part about Cho’Gath is when he gets big, he’s *really big*. But a lot of other champions do the same thing with stronger and less “feast or famine” kits.
I hope Cho’Gath gets a VGU soon enough; given his age, I don’t doubt he’s on Riot’s list for VGU candidates, but given the states of various other dated champions, he’s probably nowhere near the top.
They’ve already publicly stated that they have issues with Mundo & Nocturne, and Shyvana and Udyr are notorious for aging very poorly; Shyvana’s issue being her kit and Udyr his visuals. So Cho likely isn’t getting touched any time soon. Womp womp.
Lol yeah Cho'gath is pretty ugly and as you know, only sexy champions can be popular (RIP urgot T^T)
@@VarsVerum And my mains are Cho'Gath, Zac, Maokai, Urgot, and Tahm Kench :)
@@VarsVerumik this was wrong a while ago but why do you think cho was meta for a while? tbh i have no idea why they were meta
Tbh I really hope Shyvana gets her vgu sooner than say... 2022-2023? Because if we are only getting Mundo this year and Udyr is the first of 2022, assuming she is the first next vgu, it's still like a year and 2 thirds until she gets a vgu at minimum :(
I've mained Cho'Gath since Open Beta and after 12 years you get very good at hitting Qs. If they ever reworked him I'd 100% quit the game
I do think he could at the very least use a visual update, maybe not a gameplay update. The dude looks like such a mess, and not in a good way.
I would say his passive also needs some tweaking but other than that he is fine
@@ventu7907 his passive is very underrated in laning phase is the strongest ability he has his passive is more valuable than his ult in laning phase
he was already reworked
You'd be in the minority. Cho is my favourite champion but his kit is really trash, they need to change his q, w and passive.
As someone who played Cho'Gath a lot and as to how the game is now, I can say that his problem might not be the lack of "gap closer" but rather the lack of disengage/get-off-me/escape-tool. I totally agree with the problems you stated in Cho's kit, but giving him a gap-closer kinda ruins his identity as the godzilla of League and in-game it removes the only thing that effectively counters him "distance" (Imagine godzilla being so mobile or just dashing around). I also agree that his passive is lackluster, and I would also like to add that his w is the weakest-link in his actives. A solution I can think of is a mini-rework on his passive and w,.Maybe give his passive something that scales from his R stacks (maybe tenacity or resistance/damage-reduction (cause it's so funny how some champions just melts a 5k HP Cho'Gath faster than other tanks). As for his W, what I can think of is to change it to the old Volibear E (except remove the knockback and slow but it applies fear even to champions), this way he will have a "get-off-me" tool that can also make landing his Q quite-easier and reliable since you have another cc in a form of fear. It also makes much more sense for Cho'Gath to inflict fear than to silence enemies, they can also give it the "E" treatment where its AOE increases in proportion to Cho'Gath's size.
i played cho, 50 games back to back to get him to level 7 and max eternals.
i played against every kind of toplaner. but i could never say whats wrong. and why it doesnt feel so good. you hit the nail on the head. this is so true. cho gath is somehow kindy squishy, i mean he is big in size so he gets hit with everything. but he has nothing against it. nothing. you can just run and hope you live trough it. sion can r away and shield himself. an ornn has a w that makes him unstoppable. but have you ever played cho against vayne thresh? you get with every cc spell, while vayne just stack true dmg on you. if you try to get to her she uses q, e or r nothing you can do.
back to the point i mostly won my lane like even darius and teemo, only adcs and aatrox can lanebully you so hard that it is unplayable (tank shred champs aside). so im like 3/0/0 with first tower, most farm. but if i get engaged i can do shit. even if im tankiest mf alive. true dmg and cc will wear you down. but you have no counter against that. so a resistance or tenacity buff to disengage would be great. all in all i think cho shows the drastic difference between old league and new league.
About being able to land Q: as a top player his Q usually requires mobility skills to dodge, and has a low cooldown (so unless he's laying against Gwen or Fiora, he gets his Qs in during enemy cooldowns). If he freezes he can spam Q, walk up during knockup and E for quite a lot of damage. His high health is more to be used against towers in the sense where when he gets good stacks he can dive rather reliably (when I play chogath after laning phrase I just get to ignore towers).
When I first started playing midseason 6, Cho was the only interesting character to me. I saw his ult, and it looked like the only thing in this game that did big damage. His jungling was safe, his cc helped me catch people, and that ulti felt very good.
The hardest thing about being a One Trick Cho like I am is matchups, there is a sea of champions that utterly counter Cho’Gath, despite him being an easy champ to play, he’s not easy to one trick, especially when you get up past mid Gold in ranks
BTW really cool that u answer the comments if u can! I really respect that Vars! Bless u.
Bruh I main chogath and I love him ppl missing out a great champ
Cho'gath (AP or Tank) is ironically a pretty decent low elo champ. No one else on your team will play a tank, people can't dodge his q, they don't respect feast damage, and most importantly, it lets you be a second jungler for your team in the midgame in case yours is crap.
Cho'gath will always have a special place in my heart, together with Kayle and Kha'zigs, in that I dont play him often, nor do I like to play them normally given that they are so easily screwed in early game and made absolute useless because of it, but they give a sorta of feel of acomplishment with the transformations. It goes bad more often then not, but when it goes good it is amazing and that is why at least once for season I play them and only them for about a month.
i have the same relationship with cho. was my first champ, learned the game with him, and now hes an affectionate pocket pick
ah yes gone are the day of building cho with atmas sunfire force of nature leviathan and warmogs just running crazily into the enemy team and forcing them to focus you because the fat bastard of a spikethrower wont quit no matter what you do. damn i miss those times
Cho is still big hyuuuge
Damn bro, me too...
The trade off is cho can get much bigger now.
I love Cho'gath since he grews when i feed him ... its like a mini game with LoL .
Seeing him grow tankier and bigger its very rewarding
Cho main here. You pretty much nailed it. Only thing is that in situations where the enemy doesn’t have a good shredder (think Yi, Vayne, Brand, etc) you can build AP + resistances and you’re kind of OP. Your high amount of HP allows you to invest more effectively and become tankier for way cheaper. So in those situations I still think that Cho can be very very good (and even if there is a Yi, if you just kill him with ult it works)
What I mean is that he can work. But as you said he has a lot of weaknesses that keep him from being actually viable
He definitely has very high highs, but just as many low lows.
I have an idea for what they can do to bring his consuming concept into a bigger role. Cho'Gath should adapt to what type of champ he'd last consumed, meaning that wich type of champ he'd eaten last his abilities will adapt to it, eat a tank, become buff, eat a slayer, become sleaker and mobile, eat a ranger gain one or more ranged abilities.
That sounds interesting
This video didnt age well...
Cho op now in top.
ikr?
LoL is constantly rotating so duh
Deadman's plate, Force of nature, Predator, Relentless hunter, water walking, celerity.
FAST AF BOIIIII
I see cho way more than any other champ on the "why no one plays" series
Cho Gath E and passive are the only things they r allowed to change
Since Q is hard to land, maybe he can gain just a bit of MS towards the targets he actually lands them on as a tiny buff.
But that's just Approach velocity :o
Wait true XD
Maybe a built-in one for Cho? Or his E could have a very tiny dash effect like Udyr's Bear stun and Garen's Q
This is why aproach velocity is a rune.
I actually played that I chilled at recently and I found him quite effective. I built take and got to 6k hp. I was a big boi. The main issue I had was limited range and very slow movement. Those are his biggest issues. He's actually on the right radar for champions riot wants to rework and has been there for quite a long time. Another champion that's also been on the list for a long time is rammus. Is gameplay is roll up to them and just stand there when they slowly die.
Same. But it's sad that the 2021 rework voting list just shows up. Rammus and Cho'Gath not even on the list so maybe they aren't getting any rework in a short time.
You forgot the hp scaling on his E which is an important part of his kit when dueling
I love chogath but i would love for him to feel more like a huge void monster, a built in approach velocity / mini dash on a cc'd target for passive (with an all fours running animation) , and his silence to be like a rumble q but obviously not as long, where enemies are silenced as long as they're in the cone whilst he is screaming. That way he could consistently lock and dps a target down if they try to dive his carries and extend his ability to protect them, whilst also allowing for enemy teams to counter it by ccing him from outside the cone.
He's a tank with insane burst potential at the tradeoff of super tankiness and i think thats kind of a nice niche, they just need to modernise him a little bit to help him deal with mobility creep and make him not look so goofy.
Hail of Blades/Titanic Hydra. Ghost/smite and run people down from the jungle. Probably some of the most fun you can have on a champion while still being effective 😉
Just imagine to see Ekko try to come and invade you JG but he found out that a giant faking dinosaurs say nope and that faking eat him.
This is one of the more funny stories of mine about how people fail to think that Cho have the ability to 1v1 all champs pretty ez. Like hi don't have many counters. Only Fiore is a problem but like a good cho can anticipate the dash of the enemy
@Sorry, i dont Get it that's why you jungle. You can literally drag them kicking and screaming to victory
1:30 "actively no counter play"
Tenacity, cleanse, and QSS.
Not to mention if you're not an ability caster it's negligible.
Yea i am pretty sure his misspoke and meant the knock up
@@scheikundeiscool4086 just dodge it
@@anon2427 Yea that goes for every thing.
But knockups are not effected by abilities or items
@@anon2427 good cho will almost never miss a q on a silenced enemy
I miss chogath's old E where you could just have permanent hyperfarm power
Good old times
I think why people dont play Cho'Gath is because they are having problems getting stacks and thats where Cho'Gath is good so you need to get stacks as much as possible.
Didn’t touch cho gath until I got a skin for him and while him being really slow and unable to close distances is definitely an issue slowly growing larger and eating people with his ult is the most satisfying thing to me
I remember using him to nom the dragons, good times
You made a really good point chill gas is a predator themed champion but has no moves that actually get him close to his prey they could totally just add a little bit of movement speed on his q after you land it and I think that would make him pretty solid. Extra style if they make him look like the T-Rex running in Jurassic Park when he's doing it. Alternatively they could go to the wack ass option and have him run really fast and leave ruptures behind him.
I know it's an old video, but is that fire emblem music I hear?
Yep!
@@VarsVerum Nice, I knew it sounded familiar xD
Cho'gath was my first top laner I really learned, and I mained him for a while before moving on to other top laners like Urgot, and Malphite (although recently, I have been learning Irelia as a pocket pick.) Ultimately, I like being big, and being a sort of landmark focus of a team fight that everyone else fights around, as well as being a high damage threat. That being said, not having a dash or a shield really hurts, and his sustain is so situational that it barely matters outside of laning phase. Compare that to someone like Warwick who I main in the jungle. He has a similar life steal idea to cho's passive, but it WORKS so much better for him because he can go into a fight, get to low health, and run off, Q a scuttle, and get right back into the fight, or even regen health while in a fight by just turning on whoever is hurting him.
Cho could really do with something even as simple as a heal on his Q or E, just to sustain through those longer teamfights.
As a Cho'Gath main, Cho is very fun when he gets big but it's hard to do that consistently because in teamfights half the time he just gets shreded and the other half he can't finish off the last ones because he's just too slow to
When i started playing i got stomped by an insane cho gath and ever since i am an cho otp i play him even if i get hard counterd he makes me so happy an his size scaling is beautiful i just rlly love him
Personally I think building tank+ a demonics is a pretty good middle ground. Insanely tanky with do much HP, your R can almost one shot squishies (And it's VERY fun having both jungles fight over an objective, trying to calculate a perfect smite once it reaches 900 HP, then just walking in with your R and killing it when it still has 1500 HP) and with demonics and the tank items+your R stacks, you can easily get 100-150 extra AP from its passive, letting you get around 200 AP with one item while being extremely tanky.
As long as the enemy doesn't have something like a Vayne, Cho'gath is a really good pick
Just one thing if u play him like an burst mage/assassin u just need to buy oracle lens and stay in bushes and then q and the enemy don't expect and u can 100/0
This video made me think more about Cho'Gath nad what made him good both as a tank and a mage, so i got inspired and i'm going for a takny mage with everfrost as first complete item
Enough resistance for duels and fights, enough damage on all skills to handle various situations and mix/max -ing both E and R damage
Somehow it's working well
Cho is a great champion, he just seems week because of all the super OP new champions have released the last few years. Instead of nerfing these champs to being balanced, Riot inexplicitly decides to try to buff all the other champs up to that level leading to horrible balance and metas.
I will say you missed his primary utility as a tank. It sounds silly, but with proper positioning, you can force them to engage on you because skill shots that stop on champion hit can’t get past you, and even targeted abilities are difficult with how much Cho there is
5:00 I haven't played league in quite a while, so I am a bit behind. Who is that huge hero with the beetle like shell that is shown charging in during the push?
Lmfao at the 3 wards on 10:21
You keep covering my favourite champs :)
I would be willing to give up my vorpal e, if he could have a stomp or quake ability that would stun an area for a half second.
That way you could just long play his abilities one into the other to try to wreck the enemy team if they stay bunched up.
Quake them into place, to land your rupture, and silence them when they fall back down. Juggling the enemy champions and then eating one of them.
I still play cho quite often. The fact that I play top without flash and potential poke and run with his passive regen from minion kills catches many players off guard
I disagree about playing without flash cus the flash can be insanely useful of into flashing to eat someone or something
@@d4s0n282 oh I'm well aware how useful flash is. I just stopped running it top on my main account no matter the champion and my alt doesn't run it at all
@@Gnarlton but whyyy
@@d4s0n282 when I was bronze people hated that I ran flash ignite instead of TP. I loved ignite so I said screw it I'm going tp ignite. Now I'm gold and still gaining LP. Especially since they buffed my main. I really do it now just because I like how I tend to run what people consider impossible and make it work
@@Gnarlton I agree that ignite is really good in low elo since it gives you soooo much pressure in lane, literally anyone should run it although tp is always better in high elo lol, I would switch back to flash ignite tbh but gl with your climbing
this video: why nobody plays cho gath
me who mains cho gath: ;-;
2 reasons sett and Botrk
I don't think this video aged particularly well. Chogath has never been a considerably vague champion from my point of view, he's a consistent, not "oh god oh no there's CHOGATH" like you would for Yuumi, or Pyke, or Darius or Garen. It's not widely banned because he's not that hard to lane against, and shines in the late game, which at that point is not an issue of lane so bans kind of stop mattering as much. He is fairly balanced, and tends to see the most action mid to late game. Though I do think his passive needs a rework, as it is heavily underwhelming and just doesn't do a lot once you have over 2000 health. Maybe it scales with your feast stacks?
I'm rambling, either way I genuinely think he's a well balanced character, just kind of lacks any 'special niche' other than being a big boi with more health and size than nearly any other champ. He's not really a tank even, more like some juggernaut made to absorb shots and just keep going, not mitigate or deflect... absorb.
Additionally, the point of him being so large is to absorb skillshots. He's meant to be a bastion for the lil squishy guys under him, and literally eat skillshots with his HP. Being big is his biggest downside; however it's one of his most effective reasons for being a tank. He's so large, you can't get past him with his silence, knock up and slowing E. He's less a warden, definitely not a vanguard. More like a protector, someone who basically can take as many hits as necessary to give his team the ability to push, he's a massive team player character, but still being able to carry with high magical abilities with CC. He's a niche, and a very team oriented one (which I personally have no problem with as league is, well, a team game lmao.)
One of my favourite champs. (Yeah getting as huge as possible is the funniest part plus i love the laning phase with the E and the passive it's fun)
Cho, in my maining him as AP mid, played far more like an AP Assassin as opposed to Warden.
I would say that, even with tank cho being insanely good this season, they should give him some minor rework.
One thing I had thought of is to make his q similar to nocturnes path where he gains movement toward people hit by it. Maybe make it a faster wave skillshot with the same range but less damage?
Also they should make his passive scale off max hp and mana as opposed to a flat amount. It kinda falls flat right now.
Nice to see so many fellow cho’gath mains
I remember I used to play Cho when his sustain was so high you couldn't beat him in lane (when his e was a toggle). I loved using him, he wasn't flashy but it was so fun seeing top laners trying to kill you and failing. His lack of mobility wasn't an issue because you could just stand there farming while slowly poking the enemy out lane with your e. But after the runes rework, I stopped using him because the damage champions started to deal was so high he was no longer an option. Even worse, the change to his e removed his slow but reliable poke. And since now everyone has a dash or runs like they shoved a rocket up their butt, catching someone is almost impossible without some help or them messing up.
I still have fun using in aram but he needs a rework that keeps his design and ult but updates the rest of his kit. I mean, he's my favorite champion just because I can run around the map being a huge ass dinosaur while humming the Jurassic Park theme. No other champion gives me that kind of satisfaction.
I'm a cho'gath main and I'd say the biggest drop off in the effectiveness of his kit is his passive. It is amazing in the laning phase, gives you much needed pieces of sustain, however like it was pointed out in the video; it just isn't useful anywhere else. I also want to say that this video pretty much entirely excluded mention of cho gath's E, the spikes! the spikes are faaaantastic and will likely become your main source of battlefield control when fighting against flighty teams which can dodge your Q. The percent health damage is nothing to sneeze at either, gaining more % damage for the number of Feast stacks you have, this really helps cho gath handle other more standard tanks, often out preforming your standard warden with the quick hits of % damage.
I'd say that it's absolutely fair that Cho is an A tier champ fighting for a place against S tier champs. The mechanics for Cho are fairly simple, and thanks to his most recent major update, he becomes a fairly straightforward champion to pick up, play and find some fun satisfaction when he gets VERY big. It's fun! primarily, I think playing cho is just fun and rewarding. Does he need some quality of life updates to his kit? absolutely. But I think his most admirable quality is the satisfaction and fun that comes from playing Cho.
tldr: this video is very on point! give cho a small rework pls riot
You bring up an excellent point with the existence of % hp damage negating Cho's biggest selling point, but Cho'gath's problem isn't so much that he needs a rework; it IS that he got reworked. If Riot were to revert his E to be an always-on toggle, he would have Morgana-level waveclear without spending mana, and that would enable him to seize initiative in wave control whether in top or mid. He would be like Yorick: he might not get any kills on you, but he gets plates, and you're absolutely going to lose tower if you ever have to back or roam. This would enable him to exert huge lane pressure, get gold without relying on kills, and restore consistency to the champion.
95% of his current passivity in lane can be traced to his E only lasting for a few hits, instead of how it was before where he could farm entire minion waves in 2-3 hits and then either roam, back to buy items, or drop Q-W on lane opponents to harass them while they were distracted trying to last-hit a huge wave under tower. This is how the champion was originally designed to work.
Much respect for bringing up the old Talon silence. Talon also saw a lot less play once his silence was removed, for analogous reasons: the champion was similarly designed around "I play my own minigame, and if I succeed I don't have to interact with you except when I choose to try and kill you." It's understandable that many other champions had no counterplay against this, so it was deemed not fun and removed, but removing the core of a champion's unique gameplay leaves them in a kind of limbo. This is what you observed when you said playing Cho feels generic and not unique. His core dynamic (infinite free waveclear + sustain off that waveclear) was essentially removed.
I love playing Cho: 10+Stack, Frostfire Gauntlet, Iron Elixir and Stoneplate Active. BIG BOI COMING FOR YOU.
As Cho' Gath main this is good to see
Hope he get his w buffed (feels to useless taking into account all the types of silences there are with the new champions)
Or that at least give it a visual improvement in its skins
The good news is that Cho'Gath's kit and design are not so problematic that some balance changes or mini-reworks couldn't fix him. It's more like certain aspects of his kit don't really work very well in the modern state of the game, and some elements of his kit don't synergize the way they should. The main challenge for fixing Cho'Gath is that he's got a kit that works best as a zoning champion with his ultimate being a unique execute that can effectively deal with a number of tanks, but his champion themes/lore emphasize his whole "devour everything and get stronger/bigger" aspect. That's not to say that you can't work with that, though: if you made his increased size have other effects (like increased movement speed, or tenacity, or increased AP, or something), then emphasizing his mage/zoning aspects would work just fine. I would, however, remove the whole "lose stacks of your size buff when you die" mechanic, because you don't want to turn him into a champion where he either establishes and keeps momentum and becomes too powerful or he gets ganked or outplayed once or twice and has a harder time recovering. Something like a more gradual build-up of scaling benefits/size (like with Veigar), with diminishing returns setting in the more you stack it to prevent it from becoming too powerful.
I absolutely love Cho'gath. My only problem with him has been that Riot has basically ruined things for him as so many champs have max health damage with the worst being Vayne on more consistent max health True damage. He just feels far too slow to deal with such high mobility and high damage.
Something I would love to help him with late game is that his Q and W need to grow in size as he does along with cast range of his Q like his ult gets the more he grows. There is a cap of course as he has a size cap, but it would still help him so much.
In this season imo cho is not bad. I love him for being the big boi of league, and remembering how underwhelming he was last season, it is a pleasure to see him being at least B tier again.(I would personally say that he is A tier even)
He is great at the moment played well you can win most match ups and his 1v1 is great like he got a nerf i haven't seen a cho nerm for years
Q is quite hard to land given that it also causes a brief pause on cast for the stomp animation. And I noticed this even only playing in the early days of mobility creep.
OTOH once Feast is up you not only have an incredible execute but also effectively have an additional smite, which is excellent for objective control.
Thematically, I would love it if they leaned into how his personality differs from the other void champs. Rek'sai is a mother and an animal. Vel'koz is an emotionless scientist. Kog'maw is a curious baby who doesn't comprehend the damage he does, which I think could make for a great blind idiot god style cosmic horror. Kha'zix wants to hunt and become strong. But Cho'gath is fully in tune with the Void's desire for all that is to Not Be, and to silence the voices of sapience.
Now Cho'gath doesn't have gap close problem with dead's man plate, force of nature and chimico punk : he is running at you with 650 movement speed and even champion like Jax can't escape.
And if he catches you is fight to the death no escaping perma slow and knock up on 5 seconds
A pretty stacked cho + lulu ult + that item that makes you bigger and gives shield (i dont know the name in english) is one of the funniest things I've ever been a part of in league, and I play since 2013
yeah but he's so fucking fun to play
It’s nice when you’re a huge cho then the enemy calls you brain dead and you check their items and none of them have tank killer items nor do they have antiheal
Unless he has changed considerably since 2012 his role isn't really to fight. It's more to disrupt and herd. Basically using rupture to stagger the enemy and feral scream to stop them from using their abilities.
Since he gains so much natural hp you can build more armor and mr to make him tanky and just eat a lot of skillshots with your face, your (hopefully)very big face. His true damage R is fucking devastating as well!
I don't want them to rework cho I love him the way he is and this is coming from someone who loves reworks
Comment from s11: being a full tank Cho one-trick since s7 tank rework, I insist on playing Cho till now as the problems mentioned in this video always exist and I think he really needs a rework(hopefully we can see it before s13). In fact, Cho should be the heaviest tank in League, but now, he's not even tanky as support. I love all his unique tank features, his Ult that able to due high true damage to enemies' front tank and increasing tons of maximum HP that make him being huge, and also the increasing size of his champion model along with ult's stacks. They make Cho be so special between other tanks. As you see, those are not his QWE but R and passive so please Riot designers, if any of you is reading this comment, don't bring them away, not like old Mordekaiser Ult or Aatrox passive, keep them.
I know this is a super old video at this point, but I wanted to say that I have come back to League of Legends and jungling choke ass has been absolutely amazing.ghost smite With the new items you can rush chemtank and warmogs with lucidity boot on predator with the item cool down rune in inspiration and futures market to make sure you get boots and a kindlegem early. Rush all of the cdr components of the items and start eating epic monsters like dragons or buffs as they stack infinitely. You can run into the enemy jg and eat their buff from them at over 1k hp left. And use your movespeed to get out. You can essentially take over the game with even half decent ganks starting very early and with an amazing health pool after clearing.
I mained Cho'Gath Top up until I stopped playing League, right around the time Rek'Sai was introduced. I love him _because_ he's slow, he gets big, and he can hit hard if built right.
I came back late 2020 to find so many things had changed... Now I main Cho and Vel'koz XD
The Cho gath first half is me, Hi Im Liquid lol.
At least say it’s my gameplay in the description. :(
CopyRightStrike? xD
When he said, "If you think I left anything out at the end" , probably credit for the gameplay :) no flame but nice video. Nice Quad @Hi Im Liquid
IMO Cho is built for Protobelt to fix mobility, and then Banshee's Veil and Zhonya's because they give AP + armor. For most mages the armor isn't very effective because you have such low HP, but Cho gets pure HP with his ult so it's very effective. Item haste lets you use the active of these very often and scale well
I really REALLY enjoy playing cho but I just think his q is incredibly hard to hit unless u can get a silence or slow off but that requires you to get close to the enemy which unless you flash isnt gonna happen often. so maybe finding a way close the gap as you said would be good without the need for an item or specicific rune set. Because if his q is too easy to land then that becomes a problem too I think.
Best part about his Ult: Stealing Baron/Dragon.
If I were to rework Cho'gath, I'd move his E active to his passive, the spikes covering a wider area every few levels. Old passive stays though. Q can stay but maybe with some changes like instantly popping out when done point blank and a variable delay based on the distance cast from him. W can and ult can stay. His new E though... maybe he use his tail to deal damage in a cone at the target direction or a point-and-click stun that looks like Ridley's down B.
4:00 Rammus doesnt have a dash. But if he counts why doesnt Nunu W and Sion R count as Rammus’ only mobility is Q
That being said, Rammus now has a dash for his R on PBE lol
@@DracolichKing7 well this was made 8months ago, way before rammus update
Personally Cho' gath is my flag ship with Elise as my secondary.
Ok, it's driving me nuts because it sound so familiar. What is the background music from?