I just read the book, and TC is not the dude you think he is. Janie’s marriages to Logan and Jody failed because she was never given an incentive to submit to their chauvinist wills as she did with Tea Cake. Their brand of chauvinism left her with two options: 1) to run away or 2) to submit silently. Naturally, those marriages failed because there was no mutual benefit exchange. Both marriages were uncompromisingly one-sided with Janie’s need for friends and recreation never acknowledged or granted. Janie fled from the first marriage and acquiesced silently until a weakened spouse provided her an opportunity to become free from the second. Only Tea Cake, the younger man, understood that an appropriate incentive could induce Janie to submit to his will. By catering to her need for love, friends and recreation, Tea Cake induced Janie to do what he wanted, whether working in the field or in the kitchen, whether wearing these shoes or that dress, whether going here or not there - including tolerating robbing, gambling, stabbing or even slapping her - all behaviors that made Tea Cake “the big man” on the muck. This is submission on a grand scale. Unlike Janie’s other husbands, who were older and relied on pulling rank to impose their wills, Tea Cake, who was twelve years younger, didn’t attempt to pull rank but rather used “game” to overcome objections and get buy-in voluntarily. For example, as mentioned previously, to get Janie to work in the fields, Tea Cake likely used subterfuge, not demands. He convinced Janie to pick beans by implying that he was losing time and money by coming home midday to see her, but in the same breath he said she would be working in the fields “lak de rest uh de women,” which may be the real reason he wanted her in the fields.
I remember reading this SO long ago and liking it, but I barely remember anything about it! Y'all may have convinced me I need to pick it up and re-read it sometime soon!
I think only _Beloved_ destroyed me in the way _Their Eyes Were Watching God_ did . Also _The Other Name_ by Jon Fosse but in a different way. I think Hurston intended Tea Cake's assault on Janie to affect our image of him exactly as it does today. She is disappointed in him as we are, but as you point out the society in which she lives accepts and encourages his behavior. And as you also pointed out, it is the beginning of the end of their idyllic relationship. Tea Cake in the end is a man who wants to control her and will use his physical strength to do so. Still, he is foolish, but heroic. Great job as always gentlemen.
My first time reading Hurston and I loved listening to the language! I was amazed at how much story she told in a couple hundred pages. Thank you for the video!
Love that you guys loved this novel. I’m about to read it as soon as it arrives. Just one thing you mentioned about status determined by skin color “back then”…still is by many in the black communities!!!
Great analysis. This is one of my all-time favorite novels. I can’t believe Zora Neal Hurston’s work was almost lost to posterity but for Alice Walker. There are so many layers to this book. And I felt so much tension during the hurricane section. Made me feel as if I was there.
Excellent discussion, guys. My favorite classic, hands down. When Tea Cake hit Janie, he didn’t do it to hurt her intentionally, it was a message meant to show Tea Cake’s status for the other mixed family who was trying to get Janie fixed up with their family member. Remember how Janie and Tea Cake acted the next day? Everyone in the fields saw Tea Cake fawning all over Janie and she was hanging on his arm - I definitely do not agree with what Tea Cake did, but it was effective.
Wonderful book. I read it in a book group and we had an animated discussion. One woman had us in tears of laughter when she unexpectedly said in a gravelly voice, “I want me some Tea Cake!” I’m looking forward to more of her work. Great job as always. Deb
I didn't even pick up on the parallels to the donkeys. Wow! I also didn't realize Hurston inserted so much of herself into this novel. I know all authors do this to some degree, but not like this. Amazing story! I'm so glad the two of you introduced me to yet another absolutely stunning piece of literature.
@@TheCodeXCantina sorry, that was a typo. It was supposed to read "I didn't even pick up on the parallels to the donkey." Sorry about that, Una. ☺ Now I feel like a heel.
Zora Neale Hurston, sneaking into high school in her 20s like Drew Barrymore in Never Been Kissed... or the cast of Beverly Hills, 90210... :) Good for her! I haven't read her autobiography yet but I am eager to. I have one of her LOA volumes with 4 novels that I just finished (Eyes was the best). The other LOA volume has her autobiography and some essays and should be coming my way soon-ish. :)
I had to read ("There Eyes Were Watching God.") in African -American literature class. The reader may misunderstand the themes in the story and misinterpret as love story or toxic relationships story because of Jaine's reliance on men. Thanks 👍
I have to disagree with the idea of motorboat and the other side characters being unimportant. They are used to describe the setting and life in the south where you would find jealousy among each other, but there would also be a sense of togetherness. They were all part of the history of black culture where they had nothing but everything at the same time. It is something that had to be witnessed in order to understand. Your opinions are exactly what Zora thought of the white people in the courtroom. They didn't know how they lived. Not to bring race into the discussion, but it goes for all cultures and customs we fail to understand.
Zora Neale Hurston Playlist: ua-cam.com/video/g87mIBBjubw/v-deo.html
I just read the book, and TC is not the dude you think he is.
Janie’s marriages to Logan and Jody failed because she was never given an incentive to submit to their chauvinist wills as she did with Tea Cake. Their brand of chauvinism left her with two options: 1) to run away or 2) to submit silently. Naturally, those marriages failed because there was no mutual benefit exchange. Both marriages were uncompromisingly one-sided with Janie’s need for friends and recreation never acknowledged or granted. Janie fled from the first marriage and acquiesced silently until a weakened spouse provided her an opportunity to become free from the second. Only Tea Cake, the younger man, understood that an appropriate incentive could induce Janie to submit to his will. By catering to her need for love, friends and recreation, Tea Cake induced Janie to do what he wanted, whether working in the field or in the kitchen, whether wearing these shoes or that dress, whether going here or not there - including tolerating robbing, gambling, stabbing or even slapping her - all behaviors that made Tea Cake “the big man” on the muck. This is submission on a grand scale.
Unlike Janie’s other husbands, who were older and relied on pulling rank to impose their wills, Tea Cake, who was twelve years younger, didn’t attempt to pull rank but rather used “game” to overcome objections and get buy-in voluntarily. For example, as mentioned previously, to get Janie to work in the fields, Tea Cake likely used subterfuge, not demands. He convinced Janie to pick beans by implying that he was losing time and money by coming home midday to see her, but in the same breath he said she would be working in the fields “lak de rest uh de women,” which may be the real reason he wanted her in the fields.
I remember reading this SO long ago and liking it, but I barely remember anything about it! Y'all may have convinced me I need to pick it up and re-read it sometime soon!
To quote Allen... "It's sooooo good! Soooo good!"
I think only _Beloved_ destroyed me in the way _Their Eyes Were Watching God_ did . Also _The Other Name_ by Jon Fosse but in a different way. I think Hurston intended Tea Cake's assault on Janie to affect our image of him exactly as it does today. She is disappointed in him as we are, but as you point out the society in which she lives accepts and encourages his behavior. And as you also pointed out, it is the beginning of the end of their idyllic relationship. Tea Cake in the end is a man who wants to control her and will use his physical strength to do so. Still, he is foolish, but heroic. Great job as always gentlemen.
I agree. We didn’t express that clearly enough
My first time reading Hurston and I loved listening to the language! I was amazed at how much story she told in a couple hundred pages. Thank you for the video!
Isn't it great when you discover something new?
Love that you guys loved this novel. I’m about to read it as soon as it arrives. Just one thing you mentioned about status determined by skin color “back then”…still is by many in the black communities!!!
Great analysis. This is one of my all-time favorite novels. I can’t believe Zora Neal Hurston’s work was almost lost to posterity but for Alice Walker. There are so many layers to this book. And I felt so much tension during the hurricane section. Made me feel as if I was there.
Makes me wonder what other works could we be missing out on just due to the agenda at the time and fads?
Excellent discussion, guys. My favorite classic, hands down.
When Tea Cake hit Janie, he didn’t do it to hurt her intentionally, it was a message meant to show Tea Cake’s status for the other mixed family who was trying to get Janie fixed up with their family member. Remember how Janie and Tea Cake acted the next day? Everyone in the fields saw Tea Cake fawning all over Janie and she was hanging on his arm - I definitely do not agree with what Tea Cake did, but it was effective.
Sure. I think we didn’t talk about that clearly enough
@@TheCodeXCantina Literally, I would have watched you guys do a chapter by chapter analysis. Honestly then it wouldn't be enough. :)
Wonderful book. I read it in a book group and we had an animated discussion. One woman had us in tears of laughter when she unexpectedly said in a gravelly voice, “I want me some Tea Cake!” I’m looking forward to more of her work. Great job as always. Deb
Lol. I'm sure it was great! We've had plenty of inside jokes and such while reading it too :D
I didn't even pick up on the parallels to the donkeys. Wow! I also didn't realize Hurston inserted so much of herself into this novel. I know all authors do this to some degree, but not like this. Amazing story! I'm so glad the two of you introduced me to yet another absolutely stunning piece of literature.
Hey I grew up in Chicago. That’s my excuse
@@TheCodeXCantina sorry, that was a typo. It was supposed to read "I didn't even pick up on the parallels to the donkey." Sorry about that, Una. ☺ Now I feel like a heel.
Another amazing discussion, very well done 👍✅👍
Thank you kindly!
“I think it broke me” speaks volumes 😍😍
Zora Neale Hurston, sneaking into high school in her 20s like Drew Barrymore in Never Been Kissed... or the cast of Beverly Hills, 90210... :) Good for her! I haven't read her autobiography yet but I am eager to. I have one of her LOA volumes with 4 novels that I just finished (Eyes was the best). The other LOA volume has her autobiography and some essays and should be coming my way soon-ish. :)
Lol. I look forward to catching up on you on other things
Another great discussion. I am going to have to reread and pay attention to the hair references.
Yaay!
I had to read ("There Eyes Were Watching God.") in African -American literature class. The reader may misunderstand the themes in the story and misinterpret as love story or toxic relationships story because of Jaine's reliance on men. Thanks 👍
Do I detect a tear in Krypto's eye? It sounds like this was universally loved by all who read it with you guys and I'm soooo glad to hear it.
There was a tear. We had to refilm and cut it out.
Great book.
Yessir
Yo what the.... y'all are dope at this
Username lol!!!
Thank you kindly
I have to disagree with the idea of motorboat and the other side characters being unimportant. They are used to describe the setting and life in the south where you would find jealousy among each other, but there would also be a sense of togetherness. They were all part of the history of black culture where they had nothing but everything at the same time. It is something that had to be witnessed in order to understand. Your opinions are exactly what Zora thought of the white people in the courtroom. They didn't know how they lived. Not to bring race into the discussion, but it goes for all cultures and customs we fail to understand.