I still keep coming back to watch these, Scott. It blows my mind that most towns had the SI line either run past or straight thru without them even knowing it's existence. Never gets old. Would love to see a train or two use the only portion near Girard that heads to Gillespie for Shay 1. I believe they renamed that portion to the Monterey Branch, with it then connecting to NS Brooklyn. As far as NS calling it any name, I'm unsure of.
The tracks come off the UP Springfield Sub inbetween Girard, IL and Nilwood, IL. It continues southeast to circle around Shay 1, a coal mine near Carlinville, IL and Gillespie, IL. They continue south to connect to the NS Brooklyn District near Staunton, IL.
@@MattS_Filmography - The mine shut down a while back. UP had been loading Sommer coal trains at Shay, but that biz is gone. Lately, they've been using their end for car storage. NS isn't doing anything with their De Camp - Monterey Jct part either.
That's spectacular! I remember seeing that passenger train on the way home from school! Also, that crossing you're on at 6:50 is at Hazel road, across from my house. I used to watch the UP freights roll through from my driveway.
Wow…. Very cool! The SI line from a road in granite city Illinois called 203 by the steel Mill to about after I 270 the overgrowth was plowed, and the whole track is visible
While I understand why the UP found it to be redundant, today they could have used it for directional running between StL and Springfield. I do remember seeing those 4 and 5 engine lash ups hauling coal drags across the farmland north of Hamel.
Absolutely. There is a lot of pressure on management from the stockholders to stick to the bottom line, and unfortunately lines like this that may be needed in the future get pulled up.
@@scottn940 You are sadly correct... if they're letting greedy Wall Street jackals make the decisions for the company, then what point is there to even having upper management and corporate??? Logic does not exist in the minds of Foote, Squires, Fritz, or Ottensmeyer. They're shills and so are all the idiots that agree with them. I hear NS corporate isn't too happy with Squires and his crap, so maybe there is hope for NS...
Given that the traffic was heavier by the end of the line's days in service, I truly wonder if crews and dispatchers wanted to use the line as much as possible before it was shut down for good.
They absolutely did, and there's no debating that having this corridor available was useful for the operating department. Period. Now comes the politics.. As you know, since this alternative was taken off the map, the taxpayers have invested TWO BILLION in capacity improvements to the parallel Springfield Sub between St. Louis and Springfield (and beyond to Chicago). Had UP kept this route intact, making the case for taxpayer upgrades to the Springfield Sub would've been much more difficult :)
Jim - I took video of the entire process of them clearing out Kasten's roundhouse and yard (and a few clips of my late Grandfather who was with me that day watching it all - RIP), but I was afraid it would bore a lot of people so I left it out of the video. I have several more VCR tapes of trains running over this line, but uploading it on her is a pain in the arse.
@@scottn940 Scott, I'd love to see that footage sometime! I'm working on making the SI Line for Train Simulator 2020, and I have the line in place from Molitor Junction down to Virden so far, and videos like these are phenomenal for reference material
@@josephjoestar3275 - Glad they could be of help to you. I have many more, but the problem was my record keeping.. None of my old VCR tapes are marked, so it's pot luck when the mood carries me to look at a few. I'll definitely get more on here as I run across them!
@@josephjoestar3275 - I was so sad to see UP tear down some of the bridges such as @ Nilwood where it went over the GM&O. They sure wasted no time following the abandonment either! I was riding up to Springfield with a friend on the Texas Eagle one morning in 1995 and a southbound CNW coal train went over us. Would've been a once-in-a-lifetime shot :/
@@scottn940 Probably one of the last times too. There's a bridge just south of of Auburn and the ROW leading up to it too looks like it was pulled up yesterday. Its incredibly depressing
What's that IC line that you see up there by the power plant in Springfield Illinois between interstate 72 and the cutoff for 72 again going west? Is that an abandoned line now? Does it like go out towards Jacksonville occasionally or anything?
The line that cuts off at Route 4 (Veteran's Memorial Dr) and I-72 was originally GM&O, then IC, then GWWR, then KCS, now CPKC. Runs from Springfield to Jacksonville and on to Roodhouse, IL. A local uses it typically on Wednesdays for interchange traffic in Springfield.
I've always wandered why the government allowed so many mergers in the last few decades as in the last 40 years. Not just trains but like the banking in the 90's and so on. This why I think our country is hurting right now. Too much power in too few hands!
@@BNrailfan - E units and the Centennial at least one other time. The E unit trip was a St. Louis NRHS chapter sponsored excursion known as the "Land of Lincoln Limited".
They have made sidings longer and one by house meant be biggest longest siding I ever seen 16/20 miles go form Godfrey IL-Shipman probably fit 5-6 trains behind each other
That's because they were pulled from Les Kasten's Illinois Transit Assembly Corporation, a company that was located in downtown Edwardsville that rehabs old passenger cars. When this line was abandoned, they relocated their facility to Madison, IL.
Scott Can you make doctumarty On this Line or already dvd I’m 16th old and want Line was because never here for it so what is ? And rebuilt it should still go though glen carbon right go towards highland and the left then straight shot north and around Springfield use Norfolk Southern Champagin And go up the CaN to Chicago
At Glen Carbon, the Illinois Central main line to Chicago split off and went northeasterly towards Alhambra, Litchfield, Farmersville, Springfield, and on to Chicago. Their track is gone south of Farmersville. The CNW "SI Line" continued north up to Springfield, Pekin, and joined in with the Chicago - Omaha main line at Nelson.
@@scottn940 Hey So Why did NS get rid of nickel Plate or Was it NW my question is why did NS pull it up when they could use it for Chicago bound trains ? Question 2 Why did they exactly pull up street running tracks in Alton exactly Question 3 Do Knew Why the CSX pull up there Tracks form Nashville IL East St Louis Exactly What Happen to the Colten Belt line exactly Question 4 Do think Would been good have for precision schedule railroading Madison Sub and the NKP ?
@@anthonyventi362 - 1) The Nickel Plate's "Clover Leaf" route actually ran to Toledo, OH, via Frankfort, IN. NS already had the faster, higher-capacity former Wabash main line which made most of the "Clover Leaf" redundant. Mergers have ramifications, sadly. 2) The Old Alton Main was a nice detour route historically used by Amtrak and IC (formerly GM&O) when conditions like derailments and track work required it. However, the cost of taxes and maintenance outweighed its usefulness on these rare occasions. 3) CSX's original plan was to send former L&N traffic via the B&O main line from St. Louis to Shattuc, IL, and then use the BN from Shattuc to Woodlawn to access the L&N for the rest of the way to Louisville. The L&N had several wooden bridges and fewer, shorter sidings from East St. Louis to Woodlawn whereas the B&O had more capacity / longer sidings and steel bridges on their portion. CSX's plan never really panned out, and they got into the habit of having former L&N trains use the former Monon main line via the connection @ Mitchell, IN, to access Louisville instead. As far as the Cotton Belt is concerned, are you referring to the St. Louis - Chester - Gotham main line? It's still very much active under UP ownership. 4) It's hard to say. The Madison Sub's strong point was that it avoided the cluster of crossings in Springfield by going around most the City instead of straight through it unlike the other lines. The state and federal government is now going to shell out BILLIONS of taxpayer dollars to re-route freight traffic currently using the former GM&O main through there. On the flip side, however, the Madison Sub had no passing sidings between St. Louis and Barr, which is north of Springfield; no signal-controlled traffic control system; and at least three substantial bridges which were fairly maintenance-intensive. All of these issues could be mitigated with heavy investment, but with UP already having two superior routes (ex-GM&O Springfield Sub and ex-NYC/MoPac Pana Sub) running north-south through Illinois, they just couldn't justify keeping all of it at the time. The case for the Nickel Plate is a tricky one also. Right now, the Wabash had and still has plenty of capacity for what NS operates, so I don't think there's any future for restoring the Clover Leaf at this stage in the game.
To be honest, I dont blame Union Pacific for abandoning the Southern Illinois Division. If you have three parallel routes, and only two that are safe to operate, I dont blame them for abandoning the line.
Without signals and ZERO sidings south of Barr, yes, this was the inferior route (both are do-able, of course, with capital investment). With that said, however, the taxpayers shelled out handsomely to rehab the parallel ex-GM&O Springfield Sub, but it's already having capacity issues causing these "high speed" Amtrak trains to get delayed. The CNW had some advantages. It avoided almost all grade crossings on a superior route AROUND Springfield and avoided Chicago congestion via a quick exit @ Nelson for traffic coming from the west. Of course they can still route traffic this way, but now it's all forced onto the GM&O at Springfield which would add additional congestion to Lenox & WR Tower. I don't think this is a great idea if traffic continues to grow. The Pana Sub is the other alternative, but it plugs into a much different part of Chicago and is congestion-prone on both ends of its route..
@@scottn940 Well, you have to think about this. During this time, we had Bill Clinton in office and the United States was in economic stagnation. Adding signaled territory and new sidings on a railroad line like this would cost millions of Dollars. Before you ask what about the S-Line Expansion project, the reason why that worked is that it was improving on existing infrastructure, the Madison Sub would have required entirely new infrastructure, and probably would have taken years to materialize. This was also the time when the Anschutz Corporation was in charge of Union Pacific, so entirely new infrastructure wouldn't have been an option. Despite the fact, I understand that avoiding Chicago and Springfield would be a good option, but we also have to keep in mind that railroads are looking for routes with the most convenient way to access customers. While it may have been faster, the lack of customers would be a huge factor in keeping the line functioning, as, after all, it is the customers transporting goods that pay the bills. I cannot confirm if there were significant customers on this particular line, but all of these factors have to be taken into account when it comes to abandoning or preserving a line.
The only good thing about trails is that they preserve former rail corridors that would otherwise be parceled and sold off. Based on projected US population growth and resulting increased demand for freight transportation in the coming decades, the need for additional rail capacity, particularly over those corridors connecting rural America with major population centers (in this case, Chicago), will be paramount. Given US private property laws, powerful NIMBY groups, politics, and other limitations, building all-new corridors are next-to-impossible. As such, I think it is safe to say that trains will run through here again someday. I just hope I'm still alive to see it!
I still keep coming back to watch these, Scott. It blows my mind that most towns had the SI line either run past or straight thru without them even knowing it's existence. Never gets old. Would love to see a train or two use the only portion near Girard that heads to Gillespie for Shay 1. I believe they renamed that portion to the Monterey Branch, with it then connecting to NS Brooklyn. As far as NS calling it any name, I'm unsure of.
Is it operated by a shortline?
The tracks come off the UP Springfield Sub inbetween Girard, IL and Nilwood, IL. It continues southeast to circle around Shay 1, a coal mine near Carlinville, IL and Gillespie, IL. They continue south to connect to the NS Brooklyn District near Staunton, IL.
@@MattS_Filmography - The mine shut down a while back. UP had been loading Sommer coal trains at Shay, but that biz is gone. Lately, they've been using their end for car storage. NS isn't doing anything with their De Camp - Monterey Jct part either.
I just checked out the area, wow, the school really took over the entire track bed!!
Yes they did, and I don't know if UP even retained an easement in case they, or anyone, needed the line back through there in the future.
Seeing those SP trains really gives me a delight cause you barely see them now it’s cool when ya do and you used to see those normally then
That's spectacular! I remember seeing that passenger train on the way home from school! Also, that crossing you're on at 6:50 is at Hazel road, across from my house. I used to watch the UP freights roll through from my driveway.
It was spectacular to see, Junior! You should've stopped by & said hi - I was over there all the time!
Scott N If I'd known I would work with you later, I would have! 'Cept I was in the 3rd grade at the time.
Wow…. Very cool! The SI line from a road in granite city Illinois called 203 by the steel
Mill to about after I 270 the overgrowth was plowed, and the whole track is visible
My great uncle worked the Southern Illinois Division of the CNW from the 1910s until he retired Dec. 24th, 1955. He lived in South Pekin.
While I understand why the UP found it to be redundant, today they could have used it for directional running between StL and Springfield. I do remember seeing those 4 and 5 engine lash ups hauling coal drags across the farmland north of Hamel.
Absolutely. There is a lot of pressure on management from the stockholders to stick to the bottom line, and unfortunately lines like this that may be needed in the future get pulled up.
@@scottn940 You are sadly correct... if they're letting greedy Wall Street jackals make the decisions for the company, then what point is there to even having upper management and corporate??? Logic does not exist in the minds of Foote, Squires, Fritz, or Ottensmeyer. They're shills and so are all the idiots that agree with them. I hear NS corporate isn't too happy with Squires and his crap, so maybe there is hope for NS...
Tremendous historic footage.
Thank you. I'm eventually gonna have these tapes restored as the quality has really degraded over the years.
3:00 what kind of horn is thatM
I miss the old cnw and l and n
Amen!
WOW I saw some SD90MACs in there
Given that the traffic was heavier by the end of the line's days in service, I truly wonder if crews and dispatchers wanted to use the line as much as possible before it was shut down for good.
They absolutely did, and there's no debating that having this corridor available was useful for the operating department. Period. Now comes the politics.. As you know, since this alternative was taken off the map, the taxpayers have invested TWO BILLION in capacity improvements to the parallel Springfield Sub between St. Louis and Springfield (and beyond to Chicago). Had UP kept this route intact, making the case for taxpayer upgrades to the Springfield Sub would've been much more difficult :)
Awesome video Scott
It was worth sitting thru to get to that wacky passenger train consist of Kasten's. Thanks!
Jim - I took video of the entire process of them clearing out Kasten's roundhouse and yard (and a few clips of my late Grandfather who was with me that day watching it all - RIP), but I was afraid it would bore a lot of people so I left it out of the video. I have several more VCR tapes of trains running over this line, but uploading it on her is a pain in the arse.
@@scottn940 Scott, I'd love to see that footage sometime! I'm working on making the SI Line for Train Simulator 2020, and I have the line in place from Molitor Junction down to Virden so far, and videos like these are phenomenal for reference material
@@josephjoestar3275 - Glad they could be of help to you. I have many more, but the problem was my record keeping.. None of my old VCR tapes are marked, so it's pot luck when the mood carries me to look at a few. I'll definitely get more on here as I run across them!
@@josephjoestar3275 - I was so sad to see UP tear down some of the bridges such as @ Nilwood where it went over the GM&O. They sure wasted no time following the abandonment either! I was riding up to Springfield with a friend on the Texas Eagle one morning in 1995 and a southbound CNW coal train went over us. Would've been a once-in-a-lifetime shot :/
@@scottn940 Probably one of the last times too. There's a bridge just south of of Auburn and the ROW leading up to it too looks like it was pulled up yesterday. Its incredibly depressing
What's that IC line that you see up there by the power plant in Springfield Illinois between interstate 72 and the cutoff for 72 again going west?
Is that an abandoned line now?
Does it like go out towards Jacksonville occasionally or anything?
The line that cuts off at Route 4 (Veteran's Memorial Dr) and I-72 was originally GM&O, then IC, then GWWR, then KCS, now CPKC. Runs from Springfield to Jacksonville and on to Roodhouse, IL. A local uses it typically on Wednesdays for interchange traffic in Springfield.
I've always wandered why the government allowed so many mergers in the last few decades as in the last 40 years. Not just trains but like the banking in the 90's and so on. This why I think our country is hurting right now. Too much power in too few hands!
Money talks.
Because the government is owned by the elites who control everything and we, the voters, keep enabling them.
Is this by chance the line that ran next to 162 across Lake Dr and crossed 162 at the same crossing with the current A & S main?
It is
A time when massive 90’s still ruled the rails and UP still ran a classy operation 😞
This line came in VERY handy as a congestion reliever. Operations wanted to keep it; the number crunchers wanted it gone.
The line looks in such good shape! It’s a shame it had to go.
It was in great shape! I rode on UP's passenger train pulled by the E units in 1996 from St. Louis to Pekin and back. Rode smooth as glass.
That’s neat! Never knew thy had the E units on the line!
@@BNrailfan - E units and the Centennial at least one other time. The E unit trip was a St. Louis NRHS chapter sponsored excursion known as the "Land of Lincoln Limited".
Scott Nauert Cool! Looks like that line wouldn’t of been severed but I guess it was.
Please take notice.
Cars stopping at un gaurded crossings. Next to no graffiti.
An idiot free time in history
Jiimm Hhill - Very true!
This line run up through Carlinville and then Sprigfield, or was this part of the old Illinois Central?
Hello Gabe - Yes - from Madison, IL through the east side of Carlinville (Womac) and on to Springfield - Peoria - Nelson.
Hate to see these Lines go. It’s History. 👍
Was the line ever revived?
Sadly, no. Everything in this video is either a bike trail or just an empty right of way.
Scott Nauert
They should revive it. Isn't the existing line reserved for the so-called "High Speed Rail"?
+Train Gamer 529 Productions - Yes.. Single track with a ton of freight trains!
They have made sidings longer and one by house meant be biggest longest siding I ever seen 16/20 miles go form Godfrey IL-Shipman probably fit 5-6 trains behind each other
Why were all those passenger cars in such horrendous shape?
That's because they were pulled from Les Kasten's Illinois Transit Assembly Corporation, a company that was located in downtown Edwardsville that rehabs old passenger cars. When this line was abandoned, they relocated their facility to Madison, IL.
Scott Can you make doctumarty On this Line or already dvd I’m 16th old and want Line was because never here for it so what is ? And rebuilt it should still go though glen carbon right go towards highland and the left then straight shot north and around Springfield use Norfolk Southern Champagin And go up the CaN to Chicago
At Glen Carbon, the Illinois Central main line to Chicago split off and went northeasterly towards Alhambra, Litchfield, Farmersville, Springfield, and on to Chicago. Their track is gone south of Farmersville. The CNW "SI Line" continued north up to Springfield, Pekin, and joined in with the Chicago - Omaha main line at Nelson.
@@scottn940 Hey So Why did NS get rid of nickel Plate or Was it NW my question is why did NS pull it up when they could use it for Chicago bound trains ?
Question 2 Why did they exactly pull up street running tracks in Alton exactly
Question 3 Do Knew Why the CSX pull up there Tracks form Nashville IL East St Louis Exactly What Happen to the Colten Belt line exactly
Question 4 Do think Would been good have for precision schedule railroading Madison Sub and the NKP ?
@@anthonyventi362 -
1) The Nickel Plate's "Clover Leaf" route actually ran to Toledo, OH, via Frankfort, IN. NS already had the faster, higher-capacity former Wabash main line which made most of the "Clover Leaf" redundant. Mergers have ramifications, sadly.
2) The Old Alton Main was a nice detour route historically used by Amtrak and IC (formerly GM&O) when conditions like derailments and track work required it. However, the cost of taxes and maintenance outweighed its usefulness on these rare occasions.
3) CSX's original plan was to send former L&N traffic via the B&O main line from St. Louis to Shattuc, IL, and then use the BN from Shattuc to Woodlawn to access the L&N for the rest of the way to Louisville. The L&N had several wooden bridges and fewer, shorter sidings from East St. Louis to Woodlawn whereas the B&O had more capacity / longer sidings and steel bridges on their portion. CSX's plan never really panned out, and they got into the habit of having former L&N trains use the former Monon main line via the connection @ Mitchell, IN, to access Louisville instead. As far as the Cotton Belt is concerned, are you referring to the St. Louis - Chester - Gotham main line? It's still very much active under UP ownership.
4) It's hard to say. The Madison Sub's strong point was that it avoided the cluster of crossings in Springfield by going around most the City instead of straight through it unlike the other lines. The state and federal government is now going to shell out BILLIONS of taxpayer dollars to re-route freight traffic currently using the former GM&O main through there. On the flip side, however, the Madison Sub had no passing sidings between St. Louis and Barr, which is north of Springfield; no signal-controlled traffic control system; and at least three substantial bridges which were fairly maintenance-intensive. All of these issues could be mitigated with heavy investment, but with UP already having two superior routes (ex-GM&O Springfield Sub and ex-NYC/MoPac Pana Sub) running north-south through Illinois, they just couldn't justify keeping all of it at the time. The case for the Nickel Plate is a tricky one also. Right now, the Wabash had and still has plenty of capacity for what NS operates, so I don't think there's any future for restoring the Clover Leaf at this stage in the game.
What year was the line abandoned?
One week after Halloween 1998.
😭😢rip
If this was still around I’d railfan here all the time it would be gr8
I have a cnw Railroad Spike from 1995
To be honest, I dont blame Union Pacific for abandoning the Southern Illinois Division. If you have three parallel routes, and only two that are safe to operate, I dont blame them for abandoning the line.
Without signals and ZERO sidings south of Barr, yes, this was the inferior route (both are do-able, of course, with capital investment). With that said, however, the taxpayers shelled out handsomely to rehab the parallel ex-GM&O Springfield Sub, but it's already having capacity issues causing these "high speed" Amtrak trains to get delayed. The CNW had some advantages. It avoided almost all grade crossings on a superior route AROUND Springfield and avoided Chicago congestion via a quick exit @ Nelson for traffic coming from the west. Of course they can still route traffic this way, but now it's all forced onto the GM&O at Springfield which would add additional congestion to Lenox & WR Tower. I don't think this is a great idea if traffic continues to grow. The Pana Sub is the other alternative, but it plugs into a much different part of Chicago and is congestion-prone on both ends of its route..
@@scottn940 Well, you have to think about this. During this time, we had Bill Clinton in office and the United States was in economic stagnation. Adding signaled territory and new sidings on a railroad line like this would cost millions of Dollars. Before you ask what about the S-Line Expansion project, the reason why that worked is that it was improving on existing infrastructure, the Madison Sub would have required entirely new infrastructure, and probably would have taken years to materialize. This was also the time when the Anschutz Corporation was in charge of Union Pacific, so entirely new infrastructure wouldn't have been an option.
Despite the fact, I understand that avoiding Chicago and Springfield would be a good option, but we also have to keep in mind that railroads are looking for routes with the most convenient way to access customers. While it may have been faster, the lack of customers would be a huge factor in keeping the line functioning, as, after all, it is the customers transporting goods that pay the bills. I cannot confirm if there were significant customers on this particular line, but all of these factors have to be taken into account when it comes to abandoning or preserving a line.
I hate bike trails because of this
The only good thing about trails is that they preserve former rail corridors that would otherwise be parceled and sold off. Based on projected US population growth and resulting increased demand for freight transportation in the coming decades, the need for additional rail capacity, particularly over those corridors connecting rural America with major population centers (in this case, Chicago), will be paramount. Given US private property laws, powerful NIMBY groups, politics, and other limitations, building all-new corridors are next-to-impossible. As such, I think it is safe to say that trains will run through here again someday. I just hope I'm still alive to see it!