My daughter miscarried a month ago, same weekend 4 other mums did too, the staff were both horrible& really unprofessional& inept,nursing is NOT THE SAME NOW& I wouldn’t be surprised if she’s being scapegoated for some incompetent dr who arrived last week, I’d be looking closer at dr jayram or whatever his name is, doesn’t make sense she has NO PREVIOUS for dishonesty or anything else…just doesnt
The info out there about LL is very limited due to court order restrictions, anything that's not directly related to the charges like a lot of her messages and info about her past we don't have access to and I think we may never know because they're still investigating many more cases. LL murdered more than 7 babies and tried to kill more that 6 others and this sth that's independent of the care those babies received.
There are absolutely incompetent doctors, but a police taskforce wasn't set up for loads of Trust's who've been incompetent. It simply doesn't work that way and the police don't investigate NHS negligence claims unless it's malicious intent or they'd have a full-time job. If she was scapegoated then how did they get her to concede non natural was administered to TPN bags get the Radiologist to produce an image of an embulism? How did they get her to write notes, search for people, say she had no knowledge of embulisms in neo-nates but go on a course and complete a specific Datix report? If the Trust wanted to use a scapegoat they wouldn't drag their heels to get the police involved and they'd have to include thousands of people to go along with it. Sorry to hear about your daughter
Plenty of killers hadn't been dishonest before. Just look at Norris, Geen, Jones etc until they were caught. Please don't let your bad experience cloud your judgement because no one wants to think a nurse causes pre-meditated harm. The police did look at Rav. They didn't just focus on one person which some people are trying to say. They investigated everyone and took 2,000 statements.
Absolutely. She is the one who first alerted them to incompetence and faulty equipment. She whistleblowed in the first place, but then they turned it all around to be against her.
The Post Office scandal was an obvious miscarriage of justice because hundreds of people were accused of the same thing. The public knew it was a cover up. But in this case, the general public doesn't realise that this is another cover up, the implications of which could severely damage an already troubled NHS. So one nurse gets the blame for the failings of the hospital.
Obvious yes. These cases have absolutely nothing to do with the Horizon scandal. I'll give you a tip if you want to make a convincing argument. Mention Lucia De Berk. I think she's guilty but up your Gabe qbs at least mentioned other medical casss
@@lesley9989 There's plenty of evidence that it's a cover up Lesley. She isn't going to get a fair trial. If she does, I will be very surprised. Ask yourself why the post office scandal has been dragging along for so long?
@@jono1457-qd9ft I never said there isn't corruption. Still don't see the parallel with that when lots of people were blamed and not one getting 14 whole life sentences when nothing would have happened to that Trust. Plenty of negligence claims against most Trusts. Please show the evidence of a cover up and let me know if it's going into the CCRC submission
Facts: -At 3.30am baby K was stable (evidenced in notes by designated nurse) -At 3.47am designed nurse leaves unit & LL is left ALONE to "babysit" -At 3.50am Dr enters finding baby K in collapse, LL cotside, breathing tube dislodged & alarm muted. (As the alarm never sounded this means someone muted it from get-go, that someone had to be cotside from the exact moment the tube was dislodged & sats started to plummet!). Caught red-handed!!! Worth noting baby k was a tiny 25 week old preemie who was heavily sedated on morphine at the time of her collapse. She was not wriggling or active in any way that would've caused her breathing tube to dislodge. Her tube was clearly dislodged purposely- in those fateful few minutes the (now convicted) baby killer was left alone with her! As well as being caught right in the act, LL majorly slipped up in Police interview. She ADMITTED the Dr found her cotside, alarm muted & doing nothing to help at the time of the babys collapse. She thought she could excuse her inaction by saying she was innocently "waiting" to see if the baby would "self-correct". Now all of a sudden she has amnesia!!! Can't remember being cotside at all during the collapse!🤷🏼♀️ How convenient!!! 100% guilty & a brazen liar!!
Thank you someone who actually followed the trial and knows the evidence. For the ones who think she is innocent, please remove your rose tinted glasses and you will see better and realize she is guilty as hell. Rot in hell Lucifer!
Letby thought it possible that she was waiting to see if (Child K) self-corrected. Not that, as you put it, 'She thought she could excuse her inaction by saying she was innocently "waiting" to see if the baby would "self-correct"'. also the Dr did not put in the medical notes that the tube had become dislodged. There was no evidence (to my knowledge), that the doctor investigated why the monitor alarm was not sounding, or the time lapse from when he first saw the monitor to talking to Letby. A few second, 10 seconds, a minute etc. This, to me, is vital, because she may have been there for less than 5 seconds. Now new evidence has come to light which suggests regarding the swipe card entry data. The CPS has admitted that errors were made. Which suggests Letby may have only been alone with the baby, moments before the names nurse swiped in. This, in my view, has to be investigated whether Letby could have done something sinister to the baby in that short time period. Of course, as you put it, she wasn't caught 'right in the act'. Reading too many shite posts, and watching too many shite videos, methinks.
@@philholding6905 some are focused on details that arent as significant as the last 30seconds before the desaturation to 80%. For the alarm to still be off by the time the doctor entered and asked why the alarms arent going off is a surprise that they havent gone off yet. This is because the desaturation is likely gradual no longer rapid, LL had tried to rectify the dislodgement even if it wasn't totally successful, then watched to see if the baby corrected, rather than doing nothing at all. This establishes that she had no intent to kill Child K. It's got nothing to do with faulty equipment, its that Dr J assumed LL hadn't done anything yet (he's arrived quickly) and so the alarms should be going off by the time they've arrived, if they had seen the SATS dropping rapidly whilst outside in the corrider.
that doesnt fit with the Dr's "ordinarily the alarms would be going off" and the designated nurse saying "the alarms were going off" when she returned. For this to occur the SATS suddenly had to be declining gradually, which means LL tried to rectify the dislogement. Otherwise by the time the Dr arrived the alarms would be going off.
Are you open to another explanation. The nurse rota spread sheet, I think you are talking about, has been statistically challenged and debunked by professional statisticians. it also did not include other medics. (i.e. doctors etc). As one statistician puts it. The sheet shows Letby was on shift those days, and proves, that she was on shift those days. That is called circumstantial evidence.
@@philholding6905 No it hasn't. All they have done is make irrelevant points about it, and points that aren't even true. And you gave a perfect example of the latter in your comment. At best, their claim that doctors weren't included shows a staggeringly level of ignorance on their part that demonstrates that they shouldn't be saying anything about the case at all. And at worst, it shows their dishonesty, and deliberate spreading of misinformation. There were two charts shown to the jury. One with nurses, and another with other staff including doctors. And no one from that chart came close to Lucy's presence. In fact, no one else was present for even half of the events. The closest was Dr John Gibbs, at 10 out of 25 events.
@@jono1457-qd9ft surely there is more than one source in relation to the Prosecution evidence? Obviously information from the Trust, but the police wouldn't just believe what they were told. That's not how an investigation works. They'll be given information and then contact foresnics which they'd do for every case, or the cases would collapse and it would be a mistrial. The Defence can produce an expert witness to refute their claims if they don't want to just rely on cross-examination. Where do you suggest I look, because evidence isn't easy to find unless it's being presented to a Juror who can hear and see everything. The fact is the evidence was accepted and the only way she has any chance of a CCRC submission is new and compelling evidence not heard at the original trial and it doesn't matter whether Myers missed a trick by not pointing something out that he should. So no matter how long anyone looks at the original prosecution case it's fruitless. Obviously if new evidence comes to light then she has a chance, but new evidence is not what some people on social media think when it's from a website asking questions or from the recent New Yorker article, in my opinion
@@jono1457-qd9ft I'm willing to learn, but I'm not willing to accept information if it's biased in the Defence's favour when they appear to missout all the prosecution's evidence completely. That's what the trial was for so both sides could give their version of what happened over months and months and a Jury decided. I just think it's odd that a lot of people suddenly came out of the woodwork with supposed answers. I admit it's circumstantial so she's either the unluckiest person alive, or she's guilty. She's already changed her story from her first police interview in relation to remembering the tube in relation to Baby K and then saying she wasn't even in the room when she's found out after it's her word against someone else. That to me sounds like she didn't know what the police had on her in the original interview so edged her bets. I'm sure you won't agree, but that's my feeling when I've seen parts of the police interview information before this trial started and now she's saying she wasn't in the room
It's disturbing the amount of people who think she's innocent. They should actually research the case and find out why she was charged with murder and why a jury arrived at a guilty verdict. If they want to find her innocence they should look at how the police cracked the case. If she is innocent then who was the poisoner on the ward during all her shifts, her shadow?
I did. I have listened to hours of court transcripts and I looked at the police investigation. I wanted her to be innocent. After a while there was no other conclusion. I get that there are miscarriages of justice but you also get cases where the judicial system are totally right and this is one of them.
If this had happened to a Christian woman in an Islamic country, Western journalists would have been all over this from the beginning as an obscene and unbelievable miscarriage of justice. All sorts of human rights organisations would have gotten involved. Instead since this is a class issue, and the full weight of the state has been thrown at this poor working class woman, the intellectual class, who follow everything established power tells them to follow, are only too happy to crucify her as well. Poor Lucy. One day she will be a free woman. Thankfully Thirlwall's Inquiry has already began. This case has misogyny and class bias written all over it.
@@lesley9989 Yes, poor families. They have been misled, so they can't sue the hospital or the NHS for negligence. Maybe you should look into that before you post?
People in these comments who think she's innocent and the hospital was in a 'cover up' they have not followed the trial for a year or they would be aware of the copious evidence against her and that the hospitals management were supporting her because they thought she was being bullied by doctors. There was no cover up.
WHO HAS BEEN MURDERED?! Name me one trial in the history of English Law where the victims’ identities have never been released (even after the guilty verdict)!
My daughter miscarried a month ago, same weekend 4 other mums did too, the staff were both horrible& really unprofessional& inept,nursing is NOT THE SAME NOW& I wouldn’t be surprised if she’s being scapegoated for some incompetent dr who arrived last week, I’d be looking closer at dr jayram or whatever his name is, doesn’t make sense she has NO PREVIOUS for dishonesty or anything else…just doesnt
The info out there about LL is very limited due to court order restrictions, anything that's not directly related to the charges like a lot of her messages and info about her past we don't have access to and I think we may never know because they're still investigating many more cases. LL murdered more than 7 babies and tried to kill more that 6 others and this sth that's independent of the care those babies received.
There are absolutely incompetent doctors, but a police taskforce wasn't set up for loads of Trust's who've been incompetent. It simply doesn't work that way and the police don't investigate NHS negligence claims unless it's malicious intent or they'd have a full-time job. If she was scapegoated then how did they get her to concede non natural was administered to TPN bags get the Radiologist to produce an image of an embulism? How did they get her to write notes, search for people, say she had no knowledge of embulisms in neo-nates but go on a course and complete a specific Datix report? If the Trust wanted to use a scapegoat they wouldn't drag their heels to get the police involved and they'd have to include thousands of people to go along with it. Sorry to hear about your daughter
Plenty of killers hadn't been dishonest before. Just look at Norris, Geen, Jones etc until they were caught. Please don't let your bad experience cloud your judgement because no one wants to think a nurse causes pre-meditated harm. The police did look at Rav. They didn't just focus on one person which some people are trying to say. They investigated everyone and took 2,000 statements.
Absolutely. She is the one who first alerted them to incompetence and faulty equipment. She whistleblowed in the first place, but then they turned it all around to be against her.
So you criticise the bad nursing then say the nurse was scapegoated. Yes makes perfect sense.
Let by never sounded like this at all...she as very soft spoken and not forceful in her answers. Evasive.
The Post Office scandal was an obvious miscarriage of justice because hundreds of people were accused of the same thing. The public knew it was a cover up. But in this case, the general public doesn't realise that this is another cover up, the implications of which could severely damage an already troubled NHS. So one nurse gets the blame for the failings of the hospital.
Obvious yes. These cases have absolutely nothing to do with the Horizon scandal. I'll give you a tip if you want to make a convincing argument. Mention Lucia De Berk. I think she's guilty but up your Gabe qbs at least mentioned other medical casss
In your opinion it's a cover up. If you've got the evidence then find out who's doing the CCRC submission and give them it
@@lesley9989 There's plenty of evidence that it's a cover up Lesley. She isn't going to get a fair trial. If she does, I will be very surprised. Ask yourself why the post office scandal has been dragging along for so long?
@@jono1457-qd9ft I never said there isn't corruption. Still don't see the parallel with that when lots of people were blamed and not one getting 14 whole life sentences when nothing would have happened to that Trust. Plenty of negligence claims against most Trusts. Please show the evidence of a cover up and let me know if it's going into the CCRC submission
And it wasn't an obvious miscarriage of justice until we found out about so no, it wasn't obvious. Not everything is a cover up
Facts:
-At 3.30am baby K was stable (evidenced in notes by designated nurse)
-At 3.47am designed nurse leaves unit & LL is left ALONE to "babysit"
-At 3.50am Dr enters finding baby K in collapse, LL cotside, breathing tube dislodged & alarm muted. (As the alarm never sounded this means someone muted it from get-go, that someone had to be cotside from the exact moment the tube was dislodged & sats started to plummet!). Caught red-handed!!!
Worth noting baby k was a tiny 25 week old preemie who was heavily sedated on morphine at the time of her collapse. She was not wriggling or active in any way that would've caused her breathing tube to dislodge. Her tube was clearly dislodged purposely- in those fateful few minutes the (now convicted) baby killer was left alone with her!
As well as being caught right in the act, LL majorly slipped up in Police interview. She ADMITTED the Dr found her cotside, alarm muted & doing nothing to help at the time of the babys collapse. She thought she could excuse her inaction by saying she was innocently "waiting" to see if the baby would "self-correct". Now all of a sudden she has amnesia!!! Can't remember being cotside at all during the collapse!🤷🏼♀️ How convenient!!! 100% guilty & a brazen liar!!
Where's the witness? Where is the proof?
Thank you someone who actually followed the trial and knows the evidence. For the ones who think she is innocent, please remove your rose tinted glasses and you will see better and realize she is guilty as hell. Rot in hell Lucifer!
Letby thought it possible that she was waiting to see if (Child K) self-corrected. Not that, as you put it, 'She thought she could excuse her inaction by saying she was innocently "waiting" to see if the baby would "self-correct"'. also the Dr did not put in the medical notes that the tube had become dislodged. There was no evidence (to my knowledge), that the doctor investigated why the monitor alarm was not sounding, or the time lapse from when he first saw the monitor to talking to Letby. A few second, 10 seconds, a minute etc. This, to me, is vital, because she may have been there for less than 5 seconds. Now new evidence has come to light which suggests regarding the swipe card entry data. The CPS has admitted that errors were made. Which suggests Letby may have only been alone with the baby, moments before the names nurse swiped in. This, in my view, has to be investigated whether Letby could have done something sinister to the baby in that short time period. Of course, as you put it, she wasn't caught 'right in the act'. Reading too many shite posts, and watching too many shite videos, methinks.
@@philholding6905 some are focused on details that arent as significant as the last 30seconds before the desaturation to 80%. For the alarm to still be off by the time the doctor entered and asked why the alarms arent going off is a surprise that they havent gone off yet. This is because the desaturation is likely gradual no longer rapid, LL had tried to rectify the dislodgement even if it wasn't totally successful, then watched to see if the baby corrected, rather than doing nothing at all. This establishes that she had no intent to kill Child K. It's got nothing to do with faulty equipment, its that Dr J assumed LL hadn't done anything yet (he's arrived quickly) and so the alarms should be going off by the time they've arrived, if they had seen the SATS dropping rapidly whilst outside in the corrider.
that doesnt fit with the Dr's "ordinarily the alarms would be going off" and the designated nurse saying "the alarms were going off" when she returned. For this to occur the SATS suddenly had to be declining gradually, which means LL tried to rectify the dislogement. Otherwise by the time the Dr arrived the alarms would be going off.
Will we EVER be able to wat h the videos . ??? Id love to watch . Thanks for your coverage .
I'm pretty sure we will when this trial ends
Check out crime scene 2 courtroom, her actual testimony and cross examination, then come back here and say she’s innocent.
Actors "voicing up' Letby is ridiculous.. Its like when actors were voicing up Gerry Adams...
What exactly do you want then?
Letby is as GUILTY AS HELL. To much evidence show she wasxpresent at each one
Are you open to another explanation. The nurse rota spread sheet, I think you are talking about, has been statistically challenged and debunked by professional statisticians. it also did not include other medics. (i.e. doctors etc). As one statistician puts it. The sheet shows Letby was on shift those days, and proves, that she was on shift those days. That is called circumstantial evidence.
@@philholding6905
No it hasn't. All they have done is make irrelevant points about it, and points that aren't even true. And you gave a perfect example of the latter in your comment. At best, their claim that doctors weren't included shows a staggeringly level of ignorance on their part that demonstrates that they shouldn't be saying anything about the case at all. And at worst, it shows their dishonesty, and deliberate spreading of misinformation. There were two charts shown to the jury. One with nurses, and another with other staff including doctors. And no one from that chart came close to Lucy's presence. In fact, no one else was present for even half of the events. The closest was Dr John Gibbs, at 10 out of 25 events.
Crazy she’s been jailed for life when there’s so much doubt 😮
Crazy woman there is no doubt she killed babies get real
people defending a convicted SK of premature babies, insane
what doubt? you obviously have not followed the trial so shut up!
Why do people do this type of thing. Is it a mental illness? Incomprehensible.
Didn't she write it in her diary?
There is no justice in Britain.I don’t believe this lady did this.
So because you don't believe she did it there's no Justine in the UK? That makes no sense
@@lesley9989 You should look into the source of the prosecution evidence. The more you look, the more you learn.
@@jono1457-qd9ft surely there is more than one source in relation to the Prosecution evidence? Obviously information from the Trust, but the police wouldn't just believe what they were told. That's not how an investigation works. They'll be given information and then contact foresnics which they'd do for every case, or the cases would collapse and it would be a mistrial. The Defence can produce an expert witness to refute their claims if they don't want to just rely on cross-examination. Where do you suggest I look, because evidence isn't easy to find unless it's being presented to a Juror who can hear and see everything. The fact is the evidence was accepted and the only way she has any chance of a CCRC submission is new and compelling evidence not heard at the original trial and it doesn't matter whether Myers missed a trick by not pointing something out that he should. So no matter how long anyone looks at the original prosecution case it's fruitless. Obviously if new evidence comes to light then she has a chance, but new evidence is not what some people on social media think when it's from a website asking questions or from the recent New Yorker article, in my opinion
@@jono1457-qd9ft I'm willing to learn, but I'm not willing to accept information if it's biased in the Defence's favour when they appear to missout all the prosecution's evidence completely. That's what the trial was for so both sides could give their version of what happened over months and months and a Jury decided. I just think it's odd that a lot of people suddenly came out of the woodwork with supposed answers. I admit it's circumstantial so she's either the unluckiest person alive, or she's guilty. She's already changed her story from her first police interview in relation to remembering the tube in relation to Baby K and then saying she wasn't even in the room when she's found out after it's her word against someone else. That to me sounds like she didn't know what the police had on her in the original interview so edged her bets. I'm sure you won't agree, but that's my feeling when I've seen parts of the police interview information before this trial started and now she's saying she wasn't in the room
Guilty as hell. . Listen to the pod casts properly !
Nice people will be always a scapegoat for powerful people, especially when they try to hide the problems of system, NHS in particular.
Diversity has made sure the nhs is well& truly fckd
Your all being brainwashed, there is no hate in her eyes. Time to open yours people.
We see the world as we are. Not as it is!
It's disturbing the amount of people who think she's innocent. They should actually research the case and find out why she was charged with murder and why a jury arrived at a guilty verdict. If they want to find her innocence they should look at how the police cracked the case. If she is innocent then who was the poisoner on the ward during all her shifts, her shadow?
Perhaps you should take your own advice chrisdude and "actually research the case"?
@@jono1457-qd9ft I did. I took a deep dive into the court transcripts.
@@jono1457-qd9ft 😂 "do your research". It's become a parody. You tell us when you've found and save us time
You're right
I did. I have listened to hours of court transcripts and I looked at the police investigation. I wanted her to be innocent. After a while there was no other conclusion. I get that there are miscarriages of justice but you also get cases where the judicial system are totally right and this is one of them.
If this had happened to a Christian woman in an Islamic country, Western journalists would have been all over this from the beginning as an obscene and unbelievable miscarriage of justice. All sorts of human rights organisations would have gotten involved. Instead since this is a class issue, and the full weight of the state has been thrown at this poor working class woman, the intellectual class, who follow everything established power tells them to follow, are only too happy to crucify her as well. Poor Lucy. One day she will be a free woman. Thankfully Thirlwall's Inquiry has already began. This case has misogyny and class bias written all over it.
Islamic law would of found Lucy Not Guilty moreover case not proven
And you've just proven the people claiming she is innocent only think so because she is a white woman.
Poor Lucy
Poor families
@@lesley9989 Yes, poor families. They have been misled, so they can't sue the hospital or the NHS for negligence. Maybe you should look into that before you post?
@@jono1457-qd9ft your a joke and I refuse to laugh
@@robdroste So you don't care about the case? So why are you here?
I think there needs to be an appeal or there will always be doubt about this case.
Lycy Letby is innocent.
I love this podcast
People in these comments who think she's innocent and the hospital was in a 'cover up' they have not followed the trial for a year or they would be aware of the copious evidence against her and that the hospitals management were supporting her because they thought she was being bullied by doctors. There was no cover up.
WHO HAS BEEN MURDERED?! Name me one trial in the history of English Law where the victims’ identities have never been released (even after the guilty verdict)!
They have no answer. Trial by media, and very few people in the media care, or dare to say anything.