It was less about manipulation and more about him knowing his son. He knew that if the information came directly from him, Edward would NEVER listen to it. Letting Edward overhear the conversation was the best way for edward to follow up on the information.
Edward's logic is this: when they tried to bring their mom back, it failed because it's impossible to return a dead soul. The being they created was just a hollow shell template human body that got deformed because their alchemical formula assumed Trisha's soul would return. Learning that the body wasn't their mother's confirmed to Ed that the dead cannot be revived. Al's body was taken as the toll for attempting to return a soul, while Ed lost his leg. Ed then made a last ditch effort attempt to return alphonse's soul, offering up anything as sacrifice to get him back (costing him his arm) which allowed him to bind Al's soul to a suit of armor. Because Al's soul was able to be returned, but death is confirmed to truly be permanent, then it must be that Alphonse isn't dead in any way. And because the entirety of Al was taken, but his soul was recoverable from the gate, the rest of his body must be beyond the gate as well and can be recovered.
You missed one thing. There was a soul in the body they made. Al's soul was in the body, which is why I'm his flashback where he saw the truth he was suddenly staring at Ed from inside the body. They even mention it briefly.
The moment with Izumi feeling relieved is underrated as one of the greatest moments in the show IMO. No one could even imagine feeling like you killed your own child TWICE, and finally being released of at least part of that massive guilt.
I know it feels like Hohenheim does so in an asshole way, but if he just out and told Ed "Human Transmutation is impossible." he wouldn't have believed him. So he put the thought in his head that it wasn't Trisha, and Ed went to go dig it up in defiance to prove him wrong, to find the truth for himself, and was happy to be wrong. And then he does the same thing for Izumi, he doesn't outright tell her what he discovered, he digs up her trauma and forces her to go find the truth for herself as well, and once again, she is happily wrong. This series is all about enduring pain and coming out the other side stronger, using pain as a motivator in search of the truth.
Well Hohenheim is a complicated character, as people will see. He was an A-hole to Edward because sometimes you can't sugarcoat things, especially when they are things of this importance. I know that comes off as callus and cruel, but sometimes you have to show tough love to get someone to see the truth.
The way Ed came to this conclusion is this- death IS permanent. You can't bring a soul back from the otherside after they've passed- thats the taboo, reaching into that domain that shouldnt be touched. However Al's soul is still here, hes not really dead. Like Ed said- the arm he sacrificed was the toll that he paid to pull Al's soul out of the portal. So his body is still somewhere. I can explain the homunculus soul thing when we get further into the story, but they do have souls and that person was incorrect to tell you otherwise.
The homunculus soul confusion probably comes from fma03 where they definitively don't have souls compared to brotherhood where they do but its complicated
@@scottw5247 I don't recall much of 03, only cause I watched it once. But I remember how those ones are made and that they were super conflicted people.
The homunculi are odd in that regard for a few reasons *Spoilers* They do have souls, but they are like pieces of a soul made into their own things. They can't do normal alchemy on their own (their abilities and regen are hardcoded transmutations powered by their stones, not their own alchemy) so they must lack a portal of truth unlike Father. They are the seperated 'negative' aspects of Father (or more accuratly copies, since Father never really lost those aspects of himself they simply became dulled) but are definitly their own beings as they are the dominant soul within their philosopher stone and have their own identities and memories.
@@FBI_Metal_Slime *spoilers* Yeah, when we see tiny worm envy or baby pride I see it as them having only the piece of soul that was separated off of father. I personally think they can't do alchemy because chipping off pieces of your soul probably doesn't make a new portal, the og being is the only one w access to it. I wish that one commenter hadn't put that thought of them being soulless into her head.
The other thing can be seen in Al's monologue (and Izumi), they all believed someone they loved was made to hurt yet more, to die yet again, this time only in agony, because they were not up to the task. The relief of it being entirely impossible is that it wasn't their failure to "get gud", but more than this if souls cannot be created via that method, then NOBODY was hurt, except the one failing the alchemy.
FMA is one of the few shows that does a really good job of portraying their disabled characters as actually being affected by their disabilities, even with accommodations; where as most shows would have done what you were expecting and just gone "he got robot limbs now he is fine and normal."
Honestly my favorite thing about FMA in general, as a disabled person that mostly gets by with accommodations, I am so glad the automail didn't just "fix" Ed.
It's not that he has grown taller, but he stopped slouching. Because he found determination again. He is walking taller. Which is such a freaking good detail... All the talk about Ed's size, and how they used the posture to channel a whole character growth... Top notch.
I mean, to be fair, he DOES get taller throughout the series by quite a substantial bit. Pretty sure he grows an entire foot in height, if not more, by the end.
The shoulders thing is like a weight literally lifting off of eds shoulders. This episode is one if my favorites, especially on a rewatch. Its a great series to rewatch in general but this episode specifically is amazing.
"He's a manipulater!" "I dont know if I should be mad at Hoenheim for this, because he just brought SEVERAL people peace" All according to plan. Hoenheim is a complicated character. Definitely a favorite.
He definetly was manipulating, but too many people corrolates manipulation with evil intent. There's plenty of times people manipulate the ones they love with good intentions. I manipulated my father to quit smoking when he had lung cancer, but I made sure that he thought it was his decision thereby making the decision to quit more successful.
Ah yes, welcome to FMAB: Daddy Issues. There are so many things that I want to say about Hohenheim, but I won't. "He did so many good things in this episode in a very crappy way" is an apt reaction, given what you know at this point. Let's just say that he's a very... complex character. As you can probably tell, he does things for reasons that aren't immediately obvious. You have a lot of questions, and they'll all be answered in due time.
It is a Japanese thing. A boy/man with broad shoulders are a family man or can carry the weight of his family. And they really like broad shoulders and muscles in the back and cleaning the back of man and etc. It's a thing, I don't fully understand.
It's more to show that Winry is starting to realize she likes Ed, he's becoming a man, doing hard work and becoming something she admire. Like she admired her parents in a way.
i just know its gonna be so interesting to watch the evolution of her opinions about Hohenheim. He is such a complex character, he never fails in make people think and question everything.
What they made was nobody, just a generic human body, with all the wrong parts on the wrong places. Al's Sould briefly tried to bond to it, because it was the closest 'human' vessel, but was immediatly rejected since it wasn't actually able to live
@@mranima748 I think it was more like the 'corpse' that Mustang made. The only reason it moved was because of all, otherwise it would have just been a pile of flesh and bones
@@mranima748 yeah, a failed homonculus, which failed _because_ they weren't trying to make one. Basically a resurrection that turned into a "birth" because in chemical reaction terms that was the closest equivalent.
Could you even imagine the guilt those two boys and Izumi wrongly felt all that time? Imagine believing that you were responsible for making a dead loved one suffer another death. The soul-crushing guilt in addition to the physical penance for the sin of going against nature. Most people would have given into their despair long ago, instead of moving forward like they did. Realizing the truth, that what they created through human transmutation were not even really their mother and that child had to be like lifting a really heavy weight from their shoulders. I felt their relief and I'm just some middle-aged guy watching an anime series. One of the most emotional moments in a series chock full of them, and there are still more big revelations to come.
The thing is, for Ling and May, whether Al's body is a blessing or curse is pretty much irrelevant. They need to bring back promissing lead for immortality and present it to the emperor and presumably should be made his heir. It may even be the case that that bringing too perfect of a solution is counterproductive. If they bring back something that actually works and makes the emperor immortal right away and without drawbacks, he will probably just stay the emperor forever and being an hair will become a pointless title. But if you bring back something that is imperfect, but shows promiss after some research, emperor will likely just make you the next ruler and goes to spend all his time, energy and wealth for aquiring that immortality before he dies.
I feel like Ed and his father's relationship can be interpreted very differently for someone who grew up with a father who was also absent by choice. It's not as simple being angry and blaming. It can be a relationship so complicated I struggle to put words to it. I think the relationship is difficult to reason with for someone who hasn't gone through the same.
One of the, seemingly trivial, things I found suspicious the first time I saw this episode was how at one point granny was looking at an old picture of her and Hohenheim. In it she looked young (in her early 30s maybe) yet Hohenheim looked the same as he does now. According to granny they were "old drinking buddies".
"Has his shoulders always been so broad?" The author understands all too well what that first little slip of attraction to someone you've known for a long time is like, noticing something you never did before.
Its such a delight watching you piece things together for the first time. You follow things so well and even the missed things are so thought provoking, and you have this insane emotionality and empathy with every character. Its so refreshing.
As far as hohenheim goes, absolutely give him scrutiny but also a bit of grace. The story from the start follows a silly boy lost in his hubris who makes a terrible mistake. And as hohenheim said "He's exactly like I was when I was his age."
The writing of FMA is so impressive, it gives you just enough to make your own conclusions and like and hate characters as you want, then it shows you the truth in pieces, sometimes completely changing your perspective in the process ;)
The light reflection under Al’s eyes when he told Ed he couldn’t take the nights by himself look like he’s crying and I am in awe if the creativity of that
Everything about Hohenheim is wrapped in mystery. Every episode we actually learn things about him tend to be significant for one reason or another. It's usually not obvious at the time, but every scrap of information we learn about him becomes significant. Granny and him being drinking buddies, granny telling Ed that Hohenheim does care about him and Al, Hohenheim wanting the picture of their family where, Hohenheim visiting Trisha's grave and being upset that his house was gone. The man is complicated. It's worth the slow drip of information over the course of the series!
Hohenheim is my ABSOLUTE FAVORITE character in this series. He is probably the most complex and interesting character and I cannot wait for you to see more of him. And yeah, 'before the grave' means before the mom's grave.
His shoulders being broad was a sign of the guilt leaving his shoulders. He was always burdened with guilt of what they did so he always slouched his shoulders. Now the guilt is gone and weight is lifted
Re: Barry & the blood seal- If you think back, Ed said he had to keep Al's blood seal safe (when repairing the armour way back when Scar damaged it) as it was the medium that bound the soul to the armour; we also saw what happened when Envy & Lust destroyed the Slicer brother's seals, so take that as you will. Re: Al & his fears - It's not that the armour has a soul of it's own, he's afraid that any body (or object) will reject a soul that's not its own, ie your soul can only stably bind to your own body. Chimeras are a different thing, they've been blended together to form something unique, with Barry his soul was remove & some animal soul was dumped into his body. Re: The Promise - "I couldn't keep my promise, I died before he did" - I seen a number of reactors get confused by this line, but I don't think it's a spoiler to say that you're reading it wrong & that the promise is simply what is said in there. I suppose the question there is, what does the promise hint at?
One thing I think is important in the transmutations that they realized is that it wasn't the body of the person they were trying to resurrect. I interpreted that as they pulled *something* from beyond the gate, but since it was impossible to get someone back who's died the gate had to give them something else. Since Al isn't dead and the gate took his body in an exchange, then that theoretically means his body should still exist on the other side so long as he's alive.
Ed's reaction when he gets told by Winry that she didn't like men that are shorter than her was hilarious on all levels especially when he cries like a baby for being shorter than her! 🤣
Hohenheim is an extremely complicated and compelling figure who certainly does things in his own mysterious ways, and for good reason. I recall reading an analysis once that said he’s the central character of this whole saga; the story is just being told through Ed and Als perspective. Lookin’ forward to you knowing him better as you follow along on the journey.
1:00 that seal was damaged, so barry is dead. 2:00 edward pretty much stretches the metal in al's armor to fill in the gaps. 3:30 plague is a specific disease. it was an epidemic that led to their mother's death. if this is anything like IRL 1900s, the influenza pandemic starting in 1918. so she likely had that flu. world war 1's movement of troops around likely contributed to the spread of influenza. so while you assume a plague led to dead bodies leading to trisha's death, that assumes fleas would have led to it. but if art imitates life, it would've been the troops going around that would've spread what likely was influenza. 10:30 he's realizing that human transmutation pulls in body parts, it can't bring back a soul. if a soul could be moved around with transmutation and tied to physical material, that means they could work the math out and return al to his body. there's a pattern and a logic, so there's a solution. 12:13 "i died before he did" is pretty much as it means on the surface. i'd like to let the story spell out the context. 17:34 that's a japanese trope usually used for when a woman sees a guy as someone to be attracted to. recognition of growth, maybe, but also in my book a recognition of confidence.
The other thing to keep in mind is this: do you think Ed would have dug up the grave if Hohenheim simply told him or would Ed have not listened cause of his resentment towards his father?
Without hoenheim, ed never would have come to the conclusion he needed to. His father helped him, but yes through manipulation because directly telling him risked being ignored completely
I only want to say, to avoid spoilers, that most if not all of your questions will actually be answered by the show at some point or another. It is one of the many things that make this show great imho.
The whole shoulders being so broad moment I always interpret it as his body language was very confident and motivated. Could be something else but thats how I've always looked at it. After a major revelation that put the wind back in their sails Winry notices the confidence coming from him.
Hohenheim's statements remind me of something from a fsnfic I read a few times a while back. They're a snowball, harsh and shocking at first, but once they sink in, it's just water on your face. The counterpoint was soothing little white lies are like caramels with hooks in. They seem enticing, but then you find pain inside.
What I love about this episode is how differently you see it as you delve deeper into Hohenheim. Hohenheim knew his sons felt guilty about what they did (hence, burning the house), he offered them the truth, absolution. They didn't harm their mother, they didn't harm her soul after she found peace in death. That's why Edward is so determined to find out the truth, Hohenheim gave absolution to his sons, something he can never have himself.
About the shoulders, Edward found new energy for his goal and got a better posture thanks to his newfound self-confidence. And Winry noticed this change. You may think at the 1977 Superman scenes when the same actor switches between Clark and Superman postures, although less extreme of course.
I love this episode--you start out thinking "why would Hohenheim ask something like that?" and by the end you realize he was doing his sons a great kindness, in his own awkward way.
Something to hold in mind in all of this, nobody thinks they are the bad person in their life. Everyone believes that they are doing "as much right as they can manage to do" or does things that they have "good reason" to do.
Ed's concern after finding out that it wasn't their mother is that the same process didn't bring back to the real Al. It wasn't a concern he'd had all along, but it became a concern after he found the black hair. So he had to confirm that it really was Al in the armor.
Since you like muscles- "Onegai Muscle"/"How Heavy Are The Dumbbells You Lift?" would probably be right up your alley. I think you'd also relate to Akemi (one of the characters).
It's interesting, and took me a while to piece it together when i first watch it. How is being unable to revive the dead link to Al being able to return to normal. Bary is the biggest hint that got me to understand. Also about bary, he did mention that his body is already rotting so...
The homunculus thing is kind of explained later. Like much later. The show does kind of explain everything by the end for the most part. But with Barry, either his soul went back into his body which the issue with that is his body was an animated corpse so he died, or his soul was erased, set free, whatever and he died because of it. I think it's the latter but can't say why without spoiling some later stuff.
I love explaining this to people! So, when the boys did human transmutation, they made a body. Just an empty, soulless body. They didn't accidentally turn their mom into a monster or bring someone else back by accident, they just used alchemy to build an empty body. So when Al lost his body, his soul stayed behind, because only his body was the price. So his soul tried to latch onto the nearest empty vessel in an effort to stay alive, but the body they made was fucked up beyond repair so it rejected immediately and Al's soul went to join his body in the portal. But by confirming that he was definitely able to pull Al's soul out of the portal, Ed is certain that the same can be done for his body. They just need to find a way to do it! This whole episode basically absolves the brothers (and Izumi as well) of some of the pain they experienced and gives them hope for the future.
Hoenheim has an interesting way of doing things. There was a side chapter, set before Hoenheim walked out on everyone, that showed more of Hoenheim's parenting techniques. It was an interesting story, with a humorous ending; it's a shame it was never shown in the anime.
As you have realized without Hohenheim's question Ed might not have put it together as he did in this episode and as for Winry making that comment about Ed's shoulders being broad well don't we "notice" stuff about a friend we never noticed before once we start having feeling for them (?) This ride just gets better and better - enjoy - I am seeing it thru your eyes :)
Does Hoenheim deserve to get punched? Yes. Does he care about his kids? Also yes. Man doesn't really know how to dad but he still tried in his weird way to help. He knew Ed was there so he made sure he heard him tell Panako it wasn't their mom. Not because they weren't trying to bring her back but because Hoenheim's knowledge told him it was something they couldn't have succeeded at... there's a reason it's taboo. And anyone could see by Ed's reaction to what Ho said at the cemetery that there was a weight on his shoulders from what the brothers tried to do. Buckle up btw... this is where things start to pick up, and we weren't exactly moving slow before this. So based on Al's thought process if you tried to fuse a person's soul to a homunculus body it would still fail eventually... might be a little less mentally taxing though. Since, while you don't have to, you can eat and sleep. Eternal waking without being able to enjoy those simple pleasures is draining to even think about. I've only heard a single person that didn't immediately say "Hoenheim is sus and a dick." So you're in... broad company.
Interesting that you understood what Winry say in another way, i not heard this perspective before. Ed shoulders is not changed, changed Winry feelings about Ed. ^^
Think of a chimera as fusing and animal’s soul and body together. The new creature owns that body. That container still fits whats stored in it. Moving a soul into another container that doesn’t fit the soul or isn’t compatible (suit of armor, body that wasn’t originally theirs) will reject the soul or break the body (cant fit a large star in a tiny circle). Thats how i rationalize it.
So you have one interpretation of hohenheims actions. Maybe it's right. I'm going to give you another possible interpretation. It is the opposite of your interpretation. I'm not saying it's right or that you're wrong. Just want to spark thought. Hohenheim came home and found that the house that he likely built with his wife, the place where all of his happiest memories were made, had been burned to the ground by his child. He gave his child a chance to tell him why and was told. "I burned your house down with all of your things inside of it because I'm a big strong man." He calmly told this child that he was being childish and that he should consider his actions more carefully in the future if he really wants to be a man. Later, he talked with granny, an old friend who likely explained some of the issues that Ed and AL have been going through. He realized that he could alleviate some of their misfounded guilt. But there is no way that Ed would be willing to listen to anything else he had to say right then, so instead, he allows himself to be overheard and trusts that Ed as a genius will figure out the rest. As for why he left, we dont know, but we do know that his wife never once blamed him for leaving or spoke ill of him to Ed or AL. Granny also insists that he does love his children. Now perhaps this is being far too kind, or maybe you're being far too harsh. Or perhaps the truth is somewhere in the middle. I suggest you keep watching and find out.
Hohenheim is a complicated character that is much more important than some deadbeat father. Keep track of your notes. They will serve you well when major things begin to converge. Big surprises and reveals await you on your reaction journey. Can't wait to see your reaction of a specific badass female character 😅
I just love how Ed is portrayed when he goes to dig up what he believes is his mother's transmuted corpse. He collapses and when Pinako asks him what's wrong, he claims it's the weather making his joints ache. But he says that and THEN glances at and grabs his shoulder. And as we see, he's later vomiting over the trauma of digging up his mom, barely holding it together. His joints didn't ache, he was lying, and the show captured it beautifully. Hohenheim is, IMO, a very interesting character, and probably my favorite character in the series. I certainly wont say why or if he's good/bad or anything like that at this point, you have to figure all that all out for yourself. Most of what I might say in response to your question is a spoiler, and most of what I could point out in this episode is a spoiler. This episode in particular is HIGHLY worth rewatching after you've finished the series and know everything about Hohenheim; it is layered. Now, about that conversation since you did ask (I'll try to keep it spoiler free and only talk contextually about what we saw in this exact episode, BUT stop if you believe this may stray into spoiler territory): it's layered, but Hohenheim did indeed know that Ed was listening and purposefully gave him a goal (IMO; the glance at the door is fairly telling). You also wondered why the episode was called, "Father Before the Grave" and, well, it's because Ed finds Hohenheim looking quite distraught as he stands before Trisha's grave. That's important for two reasons: 1. He's super upset and probably not behaving the way he should be because he just found out Trisha is dead, and 2. him and Ed are definitely on bad terms after that initial interaction. So, could Hohenheim just tell Ed what he needed to hear or simply tell him to go investigate? I don't think so; I think Ed would have blown up at Hohenheim and refused to listen. But asking Pinako about it and knowing that Ed's listening means that he can indirectly giving Ed a push in the direction Ed needs to go to heal.
"Did he just get bigger?" No, well, I always took it as the weight lifted off him. He can focus on moving forward, at least for now. Winry is also now seeing what Ed is like most of the time she's not around.
I don’t know if this would be considered a spoiler, so just in case here’s a warning. I fricken love Hohenheim. Definitely went from a character I didn’t like to one of my favorites over the course of the series. I love how complex of a character he is, I love his motivations and his personality, I love how mysterious he is. Not gonna go into detail of what each of these mean at this point, but man I love him.
Ed is more stalwart and confident which is why he's squaring up his shoulders. I think that this renewed confidence ignites some romantic feelings in her.
Hello, commenting from Trinidad and loving your reactions. About Barry, at the end of the last episode they showed his fate, you can check it out whenever
Being bonded to armor would be biological immortality (or the magical equivalent of it) as it means you could never die of sickness or old age deterioration. It doesn't mean you are indestructible. Though if you custom designed the body you were to be bonded too (instead of just being haphazardly bound to a random one like Al was) you could make something far more durable than your original human form. It's basically cyperpunk-style trans-human body replacement but using magic instead of technology.
I like how you went from 5:21 "Uh yeah I ran from my mistake whatever." Then when he compares that to a child hiding their piss stained sheets to: 5:27 "😬 Uh damn....i...dont like you."
Al does explain the whole soul rejection concept in this episode. It's not simply that two souls can't exist in one body. A soul will never be compatible with anything other than it's original body. It doesn't matter if that body is a living thing or a non-living thing like Al's armor. It's only a matter of time before the soul rejects the body, whether it's instantaneous (like when Al's soul tried to bond with the thing he and Ed created) or years later. Barry's soul crest was destroyed by his body so it was no longer bonded to the armor. What happened to his soul immediately after is kind of unclear. Did it return to his body or did it go to wherever souls go when you die? Who knows! We did see that his body was decomposing though, so even if it did return to his body, the body likely didn't have much time left either.
Wont answer your question. Instead ill comment on Catharsis as that seemed to be the thread of this episode. I loved seeing the catharsis play out for each character. Even grandma rockbell who got to kearn the truth of her sons death. Yes i cried.
I've been hesitant to comment on the content of the series because it's been so long I don't fully remember what would be spoilers (sometimes I get the two storylines mixed up in my memory), so I'll just say this (long) bit: When I first encountered Hoenheim in this iteration, I felt like I was looking at someone kind of like me. I am not an emotional person and tend to be more rationalizing. When my father passed, I felt the loss, but never really, really FELT it the way most seem to. I just rationalized that his passing was a part of life. So I had a hard time consoling my kids about the loss of their grandfather. My wife did a better job of that and over the weeks after I found ways in our garden to show our kids the cycle of life. Kind of like Mufasa with Simba, but nowhere near as profound. When I saw Hoenheim, I saw someone who was probably emotionally stilted. He cared enough for his wife to return, missed her enough to go to her grave and though he didn't know how to console his son, he gave Ed the information to find the closure he needed. If he didn't care, he would have ended up leaving without saying anything. I just saw it as him helping his son in the best way he knew how. I am not saying I was right about any of this regarding Hoenheim, but I think it helped me to understand him better given revelations that will be coming.
I had my father watch this show with me, and the first time he saw this episode, he shouted, "You're a Bum!" at the tv. Knowing all I know of Hoenhiem, all I could do was laugh.
"Have his shoulders always been so broad?"
Hard to tell when someone is always slouched in despair.
💯
It was less about manipulation and more about him knowing his son. He knew that if the information came directly from him, Edward would NEVER listen to it. Letting Edward overhear the conversation was the best way for edward to follow up on the information.
That was my thought. Plus, he tried talking to him earlier and it went so badly that I’m sure he knew it wouldn’t go better the next time.
Edward's logic is this: when they tried to bring their mom back, it failed because it's impossible to return a dead soul. The being they created was just a hollow shell template human body that got deformed because their alchemical formula assumed Trisha's soul would return. Learning that the body wasn't their mother's confirmed to Ed that the dead cannot be revived. Al's body was taken as the toll for attempting to return a soul, while Ed lost his leg. Ed then made a last ditch effort attempt to return alphonse's soul, offering up anything as sacrifice to get him back (costing him his arm) which allowed him to bind Al's soul to a suit of armor. Because Al's soul was able to be returned, but death is confirmed to truly be permanent, then it must be that Alphonse isn't dead in any way. And because the entirety of Al was taken, but his soul was recoverable from the gate, the rest of his body must be beyond the gate as well and can be recovered.
You missed one thing. There was a soul in the body they made. Al's soul was in the body, which is why I'm his flashback where he saw the truth he was suddenly staring at Ed from inside the body. They even mention it briefly.
Oh my GOD I need a pillow to scream into, for all the questions that i cannot answer
Same
Yeah, thats how I feel getting to this episode with reactors
especially considering it's so long from here before the main reveal happens
@@Wuffskers that's why I feel like she should be watching 2-3 episodes at a time
The moment with Izumi feeling relieved is underrated as one of the greatest moments in the show IMO. No one could even imagine feeling like you killed your own child TWICE, and finally being released of at least part of that massive guilt.
I know it feels like Hohenheim does so in an asshole way, but if he just out and told Ed "Human Transmutation is impossible." he wouldn't have believed him. So he put the thought in his head that it wasn't Trisha, and Ed went to go dig it up in defiance to prove him wrong, to find the truth for himself, and was happy to be wrong.
And then he does the same thing for Izumi, he doesn't outright tell her what he discovered, he digs up her trauma and forces her to go find the truth for herself as well, and once again, she is happily wrong.
This series is all about enduring pain and coming out the other side stronger, using pain as a motivator in search of the truth.
Well Hohenheim is a complicated character, as people will see. He was an A-hole to Edward because sometimes you can't sugarcoat things, especially when they are things of this importance. I know that comes off as callus and cruel, but sometimes you have to show tough love to get someone to see the truth.
The way Ed came to this conclusion is this- death IS permanent. You can't bring a soul back from the otherside after they've passed- thats the taboo, reaching into that domain that shouldnt be touched. However Al's soul is still here, hes not really dead. Like Ed said- the arm he sacrificed was the toll that he paid to pull Al's soul out of the portal. So his body is still somewhere. I can explain the homunculus soul thing when we get further into the story, but they do have souls and that person was incorrect to tell you otherwise.
The homunculus soul confusion probably comes from fma03 where they definitively don't have souls compared to brotherhood where they do but its complicated
@@scottw5247 I don't recall much of 03, only cause I watched it once. But I remember how those ones are made and that they were super conflicted people.
The homunculi are odd in that regard for a few reasons
*Spoilers*
They do have souls, but they are like pieces of a soul made into their own things. They can't do normal alchemy on their own (their abilities and regen are hardcoded transmutations powered by their stones, not their own alchemy) so they must lack a portal of truth unlike Father. They are the seperated 'negative' aspects of Father (or more accuratly copies, since Father never really lost those aspects of himself they simply became dulled) but are definitly their own beings as they are the dominant soul within their philosopher stone and have their own identities and memories.
@@FBI_Metal_Slime *spoilers*
Yeah, when we see tiny worm envy or baby pride I see it as them having only the piece of soul that was separated off of father. I personally think they can't do alchemy because chipping off pieces of your soul probably doesn't make a new portal, the og being is the only one w access to it. I wish that one commenter hadn't put that thought of them being soulless into her head.
The other thing can be seen in Al's monologue (and Izumi), they all believed someone they loved was made to hurt yet more, to die yet again, this time only in agony, because they were not up to the task. The relief of it being entirely impossible is that it wasn't their failure to "get gud", but more than this if souls cannot be created via that method, then NOBODY was hurt, except the one failing the alchemy.
Notice that the only person to mention that Edward has grown taller is the #1 person that Edward doesn't want to hear anything that they have to say.
@@lewstherintelamon244 never noticed that before!!
I mean he last saw them a few years ago, obviously he's grown since then.
@@masansrYeah, but it was the same with Pinako and she said he’d actually gotten shorter.
@@BeeWhistler Yep. His dad was the only person who did not belittle him as a joke.
Actually the first one to mention it is his real pops, Sig Curtis in episode 12! It's the first thing he says to Ed actually while he pats his head!
It wasn’t “I died before he got back”, but “I died before he did”.
So it sounds like the promise was that she would outlive him.
Important distinction.
Spoilers
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I never realised how much this line shows Trisha’s love until I rewatched it
FMA is one of the few shows that does a really good job of portraying their disabled characters as actually being affected by their disabilities, even with accommodations; where as most shows would have done what you were expecting and just gone "he got robot limbs now he is fine and normal."
Honestly my favorite thing about FMA in general, as a disabled person that mostly gets by with accommodations, I am so glad the automail didn't just "fix" Ed.
And yet there are fans who try to deny that.
Can't wait to see the FMAB cliffhanger reaction supercut once this is all over!
Is that a thing that can happen? Because that would be amazing! Seeing other people have the same reactions I did is very entertaining!
You only realize how perfect the introduction of Hohenheim is upon re-watch.
It's not that he has grown taller, but he stopped slouching. Because he found determination again. He is walking taller.
Which is such a freaking good detail... All the talk about Ed's size, and how they used the posture to channel a whole character growth... Top notch.
I mean, to be fair, he DOES get taller throughout the series by quite a substantial bit. Pretty sure he grows an entire foot in height, if not more, by the end.
The shoulders thing is like a weight literally lifting off of eds shoulders. This episode is one if my favorites, especially on a rewatch. Its a great series to rewatch in general but this episode specifically is amazing.
"He's a manipulater!"
"I dont know if I should be mad at Hoenheim for this, because he just brought SEVERAL people peace"
All according to plan. Hoenheim is a complicated character. Definitely a favorite.
He definetly was manipulating, but too many people corrolates manipulation with evil intent.
There's plenty of times people manipulate the ones they love with good intentions.
I manipulated my father to quit smoking when he had lung cancer, but I made sure that he thought it was his decision thereby making the decision to quit more successful.
He is the GOAT tbh
"He did a load of good things in a really crappy way" basically sums up Hohenheim's entire character lmao
Yea he basically is kinda the ends justify the means kinda character
Super glad she's got mods reading her comments now, because this is an extraordinarily obnoxious spoiler.
@@DFAnton true
@@shootout-shinobi6672well if I may ***SPOILERS***
He is kind of the means to an end
😂😂Lamo, man.
Ah yes, welcome to FMAB: Daddy Issues. There are so many things that I want to say about Hohenheim, but I won't. "He did so many good things in this episode in a very crappy way" is an apt reaction, given what you know at this point. Let's just say that he's a very... complex character. As you can probably tell, he does things for reasons that aren't immediately obvious. You have a lot of questions, and they'll all be answered in due time.
When you walk in confidence without having any regret or second thoughts of lossing the way, then your shoulder looks broad.
It is a Japanese thing. A boy/man with broad shoulders are a family man or can carry the weight of his family. And they really like broad shoulders and muscles in the back and cleaning the back of man and etc. It's a thing, I don't fully understand.
It's more to show that Winry is starting to realize she likes Ed, he's becoming a man, doing hard work and becoming something she admire. Like she admired her parents in a way.
i just know its gonna be so interesting to watch the evolution of her opinions about Hohenheim. He is such a complex character, he never fails in make people think and question everything.
What they made was nobody, just a generic human body, with all the wrong parts on the wrong places. Al's Sould briefly tried to bond to it, because it was the closest 'human' vessel, but was immediatly rejected since it wasn't actually able to live
Wouldn’t that be a homonculus, just without the philosophers stome
@@mranima748 I think it was more like the 'corpse' that Mustang made. The only reason it moved was because of all, otherwise it would have just been a pile of flesh and bones
Put together like a lightweight would assemble an Ikea couch after Pinako level day-drinking.
@@mranima748 yeah, a failed homonculus, which failed _because_ they weren't trying to make one. Basically a resurrection that turned into a "birth" because in chemical reaction terms that was the closest equivalent.
Could you even imagine the guilt those two boys and Izumi wrongly felt all that time? Imagine believing that you were responsible for making a dead loved one suffer another death. The soul-crushing guilt in addition to the physical penance for the sin of going against nature. Most people would have given into their despair long ago, instead of moving forward like they did.
Realizing the truth, that what they created through human transmutation were not even really their mother and that child had to be like lifting a really heavy weight from their shoulders. I felt their relief and I'm just some middle-aged guy watching an anime series.
One of the most emotional moments in a series chock full of them, and there are still more big revelations to come.
The thing is, for Ling and May, whether Al's body is a blessing or curse is pretty much irrelevant. They need to bring back promissing lead for immortality and present it to the emperor and presumably should be made his heir. It may even be the case that that bringing too perfect of a solution is counterproductive. If they bring back something that actually works and makes the emperor immortal right away and without drawbacks, he will probably just stay the emperor forever and being an hair will become a pointless title.
But if you bring back something that is imperfect, but shows promiss after some research, emperor will likely just make you the next ruler and goes to spend all his time, energy and wealth for aquiring that immortality before he dies.
I feel like Ed and his father's relationship can be interpreted very differently for someone who grew up with a father who was also absent by choice. It's not as simple being angry and blaming. It can be a relationship so complicated I struggle to put words to it. I think the relationship is difficult to reason with for someone who hasn't gone through the same.
One of the, seemingly trivial, things I found suspicious the first time I saw this episode was how at one point granny was looking at an old picture of her and Hohenheim. In it she looked young (in her early 30s maybe) yet Hohenheim looked the same as he does now. According to granny they were "old drinking buddies".
"Has his shoulders always been so broad?"
The author understands all too well what that first little slip of attraction to someone you've known for a long time is like, noticing something you never did before.
Its such a delight watching you piece things together for the first time. You follow things so well and even the missed things are so thought provoking, and you have this insane emotionality and empathy with every character. Its so refreshing.
As far as hohenheim goes, absolutely give him scrutiny but also a bit of grace. The story from the start follows a silly boy lost in his hubris who makes a terrible mistake. And as hohenheim said "He's exactly like I was when I was his age."
One thing I never noticed till now is that when Al was making his speech the shine on his armor makes it look like hes crying 😭😭😭
The writing of FMA is so impressive, it gives you just enough to make your own conclusions and like and hate characters as you want, then it shows you the truth in pieces, sometimes completely changing your perspective in the process ;)
The light reflection under Al’s eyes when he told Ed he couldn’t take the nights by himself look like he’s crying and I am in awe if the creativity of that
Everything about Hohenheim is wrapped in mystery. Every episode we actually learn things about him tend to be significant for one reason or another. It's usually not obvious at the time, but every scrap of information we learn about him becomes significant. Granny and him being drinking buddies, granny telling Ed that Hohenheim does care about him and Al, Hohenheim wanting the picture of their family where, Hohenheim visiting Trisha's grave and being upset that his house was gone. The man is complicated.
It's worth the slow drip of information over the course of the series!
Hohenheim is my ABSOLUTE FAVORITE character in this series. He is probably the most complex and interesting character and I cannot wait for you to see more of him. And yeah, 'before the grave' means before the mom's grave.
His shoulders being broad was a sign of the guilt leaving his shoulders. He was always burdened with guilt of what they did so he always slouched his shoulders. Now the guilt is gone and weight is lifted
Re: Barry & the blood seal- If you think back, Ed said he had to keep Al's blood seal safe (when repairing the armour way back when Scar damaged it) as it was the medium that bound the soul to the armour; we also saw what happened when Envy & Lust destroyed the Slicer brother's seals, so take that as you will. Re: Al & his fears - It's not that the armour has a soul of it's own, he's afraid that any body (or object) will reject a soul that's not its own, ie your soul can only stably bind to your own body. Chimeras are a different thing, they've been blended together to form something unique, with Barry his soul was remove & some animal soul was dumped into his body.
Re: The Promise - "I couldn't keep my promise, I died before he did" - I seen a number of reactors get confused by this line, but I don't think it's a spoiler to say that you're reading it wrong & that the promise is simply what is said in there. I suppose the question there is, what does the promise hint at?
One thing I think is important in the transmutations that they realized is that it wasn't the body of the person they were trying to resurrect. I interpreted that as they pulled *something* from beyond the gate, but since it was impossible to get someone back who's died the gate had to give them something else. Since Al isn't dead and the gate took his body in an exchange, then that theoretically means his body should still exist on the other side so long as he's alive.
Or pulled NOBODY, but in the case of Al there was a spare soul, a not-dead soul, and so it drew itself to the spare body.
Ed's reaction when he gets told by Winry that she didn't like men that are shorter than her was hilarious on all levels especially when he cries like a baby for being shorter than her! 🤣
I feel his pain, considering I am shorter than average myself.
Hohenheim is an extremely complicated and compelling figure who certainly does things in his own mysterious ways, and for good reason. I recall reading an analysis once that said he’s the central character of this whole saga; the story is just being told through Ed and Als perspective. Lookin’ forward to you knowing him better as you follow along on the journey.
I love stories where the main character is not who the story is about. Ffx does this as well.
Ed is the protagonist and Al the deuteragonist, but neither is the “main character” so to speak.
Your reaction to Hohenheim is so funny
FMA is so dope. It still totally holds up. We need more quality fantasy like that.
Lilgal getting upset about FMAB cliffhanger..ish counter: +1
Also, Ed is going through a growth spurt...
All shall be revealed.
1:00 that seal was damaged, so barry is dead.
2:00 edward pretty much stretches the metal in al's armor to fill in the gaps.
3:30 plague is a specific disease. it was an epidemic that led to their mother's death. if this is anything like IRL 1900s, the influenza pandemic starting in 1918. so she likely had that flu. world war 1's movement of troops around likely contributed to the spread of influenza. so while you assume a plague led to dead bodies leading to trisha's death, that assumes fleas would have led to it. but if art imitates life, it would've been the troops going around that would've spread what likely was influenza.
10:30 he's realizing that human transmutation pulls in body parts, it can't bring back a soul. if a soul could be moved around with transmutation and tied to physical material, that means they could work the math out and return al to his body. there's a pattern and a logic, so there's a solution.
12:13 "i died before he did" is pretty much as it means on the surface. i'd like to let the story spell out the context.
17:34 that's a japanese trope usually used for when a woman sees a guy as someone to be attracted to. recognition of growth, maybe, but also in my book a recognition of confidence.
The other thing to keep in mind is this: do you think Ed would have dug up the grave if Hohenheim simply told him or would Ed have not listened cause of his resentment towards his father?
Without hoenheim, ed never would have come to the conclusion he needed to. His father helped him, but yes through manipulation because directly telling him risked being ignored completely
I only want to say, to avoid spoilers, that most if not all of your questions will actually be answered by the show at some point or another. It is one of the many things that make this show great imho.
17:32 No, he's not bigger, this is the moment Winry finally starts to see Ed as a man instead of as the boy she grew up with.
mm that`s not the reason. It has another meaning behind.
I mean, it’s both?
The whole shoulders being so broad moment I always interpret it as his body language was very confident and motivated. Could be something else but thats how I've always looked at it. After a major revelation that put the wind back in their sails Winry notices the confidence coming from him.
Hohenheim's statements remind me of something from a fsnfic I read a few times a while back. They're a snowball, harsh and shocking at first, but once they sink in, it's just water on your face.
The counterpoint was soothing little white lies are like caramels with hooks in. They seem enticing, but then you find pain inside.
I'm loving these reactions. This show is so good at giving you complex attitudes to complex characters.
What I love about this episode is how differently you see it as you delve deeper into Hohenheim. Hohenheim knew his sons felt guilty about what they did (hence, burning the house), he offered them the truth, absolution. They didn't harm their mother, they didn't harm her soul after she found peace in death. That's why Edward is so determined to find out the truth, Hohenheim gave absolution to his sons, something he can never have himself.
Mr Ho: "He is exactly like I was when I was his age." Remember that~
About the shoulders, Edward found new energy for his goal and got a better posture thanks to his newfound self-confidence. And Winry noticed this change.
You may think at the 1977 Superman scenes when the same actor switches between Clark and Superman postures, although less extreme of course.
Hohenheim as a character is an iceberg, there is still much to see
Al's lil speech always makes me misty eyed.
I enjoy your recaps, fun to hear your thoughts.
I love this episode--you start out thinking "why would Hohenheim ask something like that?" and by the end you realize he was doing his sons a great kindness, in his own awkward way.
Hoenheim is definitely a complicated character. He's not necessarily a bad person, but he is really bad at being a dad 😅
Something to hold in mind in all of this, nobody thinks they are the bad person in their life. Everyone believes that they are doing "as much right as they can manage to do" or does things that they have "good reason" to do.
I have three favorite characters in this story, and they are as follows: Scar, Hohenheim, and Alphonse. You’re going to find out why.
Ed's concern after finding out that it wasn't their mother is that the same process didn't bring back to the real Al. It wasn't a concern he'd had all along, but it became a concern after he found the black hair. So he had to confirm that it really was Al in the armor.
Homunculi have a lot of souls. They're made of philosopher stones which are made of souls.
Since you like muscles- "Onegai Muscle"/"How Heavy Are The Dumbbells You Lift?" would probably be right up your alley. I think you'd also relate to Akemi (one of the characters).
It's interesting, and took me a while to piece it together when i first watch it. How is being unable to revive the dead link to Al being able to return to normal. Bary is the biggest hint that got me to understand.
Also about bary, he did mention that his body is already rotting so...
The homunculus thing is kind of explained later. Like much later. The show does kind of explain everything by the end for the most part. But with Barry, either his soul went back into his body which the issue with that is his body was an animated corpse so he died, or his soul was erased, set free, whatever and he died because of it. I think it's the latter but can't say why without spoiling some later stuff.
I love explaining this to people! So, when the boys did human transmutation, they made a body. Just an empty, soulless body. They didn't accidentally turn their mom into a monster or bring someone else back by accident, they just used alchemy to build an empty body.
So when Al lost his body, his soul stayed behind, because only his body was the price. So his soul tried to latch onto the nearest empty vessel in an effort to stay alive, but the body they made was fucked up beyond repair so it rejected immediately and Al's soul went to join his body in the portal.
But by confirming that he was definitely able to pull Al's soul out of the portal, Ed is certain that the same can be done for his body. They just need to find a way to do it!
This whole episode basically absolves the brothers (and Izumi as well) of some of the pain they experienced and gives them hope for the future.
It wasn't that Trisha died before he got back, it was that she died BEFORE HE DID.
Hoenheim has an interesting way of doing things. There was a side chapter, set before Hoenheim walked out on everyone, that showed more of Hoenheim's parenting techniques. It was an interesting story, with a humorous ending; it's a shame it was never shown in the anime.
Hohenheim is my fav character in FMAB.
Winerie doesn’t repair Al, Ed does that.
Hoenheim is one of my favorite characters, but you won't learn why until much later.
As you have realized without Hohenheim's question Ed might not have put it together as he did in this episode and as for Winry making that comment about Ed's shoulders being broad well don't we "notice" stuff about a friend we never noticed before once we start having feeling for them (?)
This ride just gets better and better - enjoy - I am seeing it thru your eyes :)
Hoenheim did it very roughly, but he led Edward to discovering a truth that helped ed, al, and izumi.
Some lessons cannot be taught, they need to be experienced.
Winry mentioning his shoulders being broad i think is supposed to signify her falling for him
Does Hoenheim deserve to get punched? Yes. Does he care about his kids? Also yes. Man doesn't really know how to dad but he still tried in his weird way to help. He knew Ed was there so he made sure he heard him tell Panako it wasn't their mom. Not because they weren't trying to bring her back but because Hoenheim's knowledge told him it was something they couldn't have succeeded at... there's a reason it's taboo. And anyone could see by Ed's reaction to what Ho said at the cemetery that there was a weight on his shoulders from what the brothers tried to do.
Buckle up btw... this is where things start to pick up, and we weren't exactly moving slow before this.
So based on Al's thought process if you tried to fuse a person's soul to a homunculus body it would still fail eventually... might be a little less mentally taxing though. Since, while you don't have to, you can eat and sleep. Eternal waking without being able to enjoy those simple pleasures is draining to even think about. I've only heard a single person that didn't immediately say "Hoenheim is sus and a dick." So you're in... broad company.
Interesting that you understood what Winry say in another way, i not heard this perspective before. Ed shoulders is not changed, changed Winry feelings about Ed. ^^
Think of a chimera as fusing and animal’s soul and body together. The new creature owns that body. That container still fits whats stored in it.
Moving a soul into another container that doesn’t fit the soul or isn’t compatible (suit of armor, body that wasn’t originally theirs) will reject the soul or break the body (cant fit a large star in a tiny circle).
Thats how i rationalize it.
So you have one interpretation of hohenheims actions. Maybe it's right. I'm going to give you another possible interpretation. It is the opposite of your interpretation. I'm not saying it's right or that you're wrong. Just want to spark thought.
Hohenheim came home and found that the house that he likely built with his wife, the place where all of his happiest memories were made, had been burned to the ground by his child.
He gave his child a chance to tell him why and was told. "I burned your house down with all of your things inside of it because I'm a big strong man."
He calmly told this child that he was being childish and that he should consider his actions more carefully in the future if he really wants to be a man.
Later, he talked with granny, an old friend who likely explained some of the issues that Ed and AL have been going through. He realized that he could alleviate some of their misfounded guilt.
But there is no way that Ed would be willing to listen to anything else he had to say right then, so instead, he allows himself to be overheard and trusts that Ed as a genius will figure out the rest.
As for why he left, we dont know, but we do know that his wife never once blamed him for leaving or spoke ill of him to Ed or AL. Granny also insists that he does love his children.
Now perhaps this is being far too kind, or maybe you're being far too harsh. Or perhaps the truth is somewhere in the middle.
I suggest you keep watching and find out.
Winry asked herself if Ed's shoulders have always been that broad because she is becoming attracted to him now.
28:02 upswing is one way of putting it. Completely off the rocker from now until the end is another way 😂
Hohenheim is a complicated character that is much more important than some deadbeat father. Keep track of your notes. They will serve you well when major things begin to converge. Big surprises and reveals await you on your reaction journey. Can't wait to see your reaction of a specific badass female character 😅
I just love how Ed is portrayed when he goes to dig up what he believes is his mother's transmuted corpse. He collapses and when Pinako asks him what's wrong, he claims it's the weather making his joints ache. But he says that and THEN glances at and grabs his shoulder. And as we see, he's later vomiting over the trauma of digging up his mom, barely holding it together. His joints didn't ache, he was lying, and the show captured it beautifully.
Hohenheim is, IMO, a very interesting character, and probably my favorite character in the series. I certainly wont say why or if he's good/bad or anything like that at this point, you have to figure all that all out for yourself. Most of what I might say in response to your question is a spoiler, and most of what I could point out in this episode is a spoiler. This episode in particular is HIGHLY worth rewatching after you've finished the series and know everything about Hohenheim; it is layered.
Now, about that conversation since you did ask (I'll try to keep it spoiler free and only talk contextually about what we saw in this exact episode, BUT stop if you believe this may stray into spoiler territory): it's layered, but Hohenheim did indeed know that Ed was listening and purposefully gave him a goal (IMO; the glance at the door is fairly telling). You also wondered why the episode was called, "Father Before the Grave" and, well, it's because Ed finds Hohenheim looking quite distraught as he stands before Trisha's grave. That's important for two reasons: 1. He's super upset and probably not behaving the way he should be because he just found out Trisha is dead, and 2. him and Ed are definitely on bad terms after that initial interaction. So, could Hohenheim just tell Ed what he needed to hear or simply tell him to go investigate? I don't think so; I think Ed would have blown up at Hohenheim and refused to listen. But asking Pinako about it and knowing that Ed's listening means that he can indirectly giving Ed a push in the direction Ed needs to go to heal.
“What happened to Barry?”
Y’know, it was really unclear
It’s a bad day for rain 😢😢
"Did he just get bigger?"
No, well, I always took it as the weight lifted off him. He can focus on moving forward, at least for now. Winry is also now seeing what Ed is like most of the time she's not around.
man i love watching you react to this show but by the gods it is hard to not answer any of the questions you ask 🤣
I don’t know if this would be considered a spoiler, so just in case here’s a warning.
I fricken love Hohenheim. Definitely went from a character I didn’t like to one of my favorites over the course of the series. I love how complex of a character he is, I love his motivations and his personality, I love how mysterious he is. Not gonna go into detail of what each of these mean at this point, but man I love him.
Every time that she says that he abandoned his family it physically hurts 😂 I wish I could give her spoilers
Ed is more stalwart and confident which is why he's squaring up his shoulders. I think that this renewed confidence ignites some romantic feelings in her.
Hello, commenting from Trinidad and loving your reactions. About Barry, at the end of the last episode they showed his fate, you can check it out whenever
This is several reactors now that don't believe Al when he explains about the soul x body incompatible thing.
Being bonded to armor would be biological immortality (or the magical equivalent of it) as it means you could never die of sickness or old age deterioration. It doesn't mean you are indestructible. Though if you custom designed the body you were to be bonded too (instead of just being haphazardly bound to a random one like Al was) you could make something far more durable than your original human form. It's basically cyperpunk-style trans-human body replacement but using magic instead of technology.
I like how you went from
5:21 "Uh yeah I ran from my mistake whatever."
Then when he compares that to a child hiding their piss stained sheets to: 5:27 "😬 Uh damn....i...dont like you."
Al does explain the whole soul rejection concept in this episode. It's not simply that two souls can't exist in one body. A soul will never be compatible with anything other than it's original body. It doesn't matter if that body is a living thing or a non-living thing like Al's armor. It's only a matter of time before the soul rejects the body, whether it's instantaneous (like when Al's soul tried to bond with the thing he and Ed created) or years later.
Barry's soul crest was destroyed by his body so it was no longer bonded to the armor. What happened to his soul immediately after is kind of unclear. Did it return to his body or did it go to wherever souls go when you die? Who knows! We did see that his body was decomposing though, so even if it did return to his body, the body likely didn't have much time left either.
hoemhaim left the clue so they can stop blaming themselves, he knew ed would never listen to him
Wont answer your question.
Instead ill comment on Catharsis as that seemed to be the thread of this episode. I loved seeing the catharsis play out for each character. Even grandma rockbell who got to kearn the truth of her sons death.
Yes i cried.
I can't wait to see the reaction to learning Hohenheim's backstory.
I've been hesitant to comment on the content of the series because it's been so long I don't fully remember what would be spoilers (sometimes I get the two storylines mixed up in my memory), so I'll just say this (long) bit:
When I first encountered Hoenheim in this iteration, I felt like I was looking at someone kind of like me. I am not an emotional person and tend to be more rationalizing. When my father passed, I felt the loss, but never really, really FELT it the way most seem to. I just rationalized that his passing was a part of life. So I had a hard time consoling my kids about the loss of their grandfather. My wife did a better job of that and over the weeks after I found ways in our garden to show our kids the cycle of life. Kind of like Mufasa with Simba, but nowhere near as profound. When I saw Hoenheim, I saw someone who was probably emotionally stilted. He cared enough for his wife to return, missed her enough to go to her grave and though he didn't know how to console his son, he gave Ed the information to find the closure he needed. If he didn't care, he would have ended up leaving without saying anything. I just saw it as him helping his son in the best way he knew how. I am not saying I was right about any of this regarding Hoenheim, but I think it helped me to understand him better given revelations that will be coming.
Really great episode
Great reaction and I hope you can see more Anime in the future!
I had my father watch this show with me, and the first time he saw this episode, he shouted, "You're a Bum!" at the tv. Knowing all I know of Hoenhiem, all I could do was laugh.