Stellar video. It’s so rare for me to see a video that makes me think. I grew up using both of these types of reels. I completely wore out the gears in my zebco in the 70’s. Having accidentally closed my bail while casting on occasion I’ve heard the snap and watched my bubble fly over lakes onto the shore. A locking bail certainly helped prevent that whether I was aware at the time or not. Modern reels have a tension mechanism that keeps the bail open. It of course can be triggered by reeling or by hand easily. I have developed the habit of triggering it by hand to control the distance of my casts and I shudder to think of not having the ability to do so. As for the reason for the change the browning spinning reels come to mind as a possibility. The bail locks kept breaking until they stopped making reels. I dropped some serious coin on them at the time only to find out they were not “the best there is”. The new reel design whether done for cost cutting or not is indispensable to my way of fishing. 👍
I never worried about line twist. I learned to close by hand to save the reel from the wear of slamming the bail closed with the handle. I think of a car door the day you buy it compared to 5 years later.
I appreciate the care you gave to your reels so I don't want you to think I'm being critical or a know-it-all. Have you listened to the sound the bail makes as it gets flipped? It sounds like a small ball on a spring that seats in each position (open or closed). In essence it is a bail lock of a different sort and not necessarily inferior.
Great info - so it's a bail lock of which is a bit dynamic without a physical permanent lock... hmmm ... I've never thought of that before ... thanks for pointing that out as that changes my mind to the engineering. It locks it in place, with as much as is needed, and then allows the reverse without impedance.
The new system is imo superior. With the old Cardinal and Mitchell reels, there were some issues. Breaking bail springs - the Cardinals therefore already have two of em. Line wrapping around the bail arm, stuck line rollers, and the hard impact of the flipping bail are others. And you have to reel in for flipping the bail, not ideal for groundfishing with natural baits for example. First change came in the late 70s, the overlapping skirted spool. Before that, the line was easily trapped under the spool, with the skirted spool design, this was much more unlikely to happen. This led to a different rotor design , from a bell shape to the two outreaching arms holding the bail. There are some reels which kept the bail stopper as it was, the Mitchell 906 for example, but there are quite large levers working, requiring heavy springs, causing much wear. The back then more common L-shaped bailspring and the bail flipping lever, that didn't require a seperate spring any more, were less parts, shorter levers and could be fully enclosed against dirt. Just the bailsprings wore out fast. So next big change in the late 80s was the implementation of a coil spring, that didn't wore out anymore and is nearly indestructible. Spools became higher and large arbor for better casting capabilities in the 90s, requiring even higher bail holding arms. The stamped sheet metal bail flipping lever of the 80s with its turning motion was changed to a wire type, that just lifts, Line rollers have a bigger diameter and often a ball bearing, The bail arms were rounded, so the line could not be trapped around them. And due to the improvement of materials the nowadays reels are again as lightweight as the 60/70s Mitchells and some even lighter. So what do we miss? The sound of the flipping bail, the easyness with which it flips (what has also disadvantages as accidental flipping) and the lovely design. What did we get? Supersmooth but powerful, superlight reels that work flawlessly, with a shitload of ball bearings. Is the modern system cheaper? Absolutely. Does it work better? Also yes. Will it last as long as the old ones? The bail system definitely yes, the rest of the reel most likely not. Except the Spools, those plastic spools of the old Cardinals were quite known for becoming grey by UV-rays and for breaking. So your reel with the bent bail arm is the reinforced large knob spool 90s replica anyway... I also still fish my 60s-80s reels and i fish brandnew ones. Though the new ones are far better, i just see no reason to replace all the lovely still fine working old reels.
Great write up - thanks for taking the time for the group and myself. I cannot dispute anything of which you have said - you are spot on as I have experienced all of these aspects of which you describe. All have happen to me. Even with these deficiencies of the design and materials - I would so like to see the body of the reel and the spool cup, for the lack of a better word, all made of a reinforced carbon fiber, i.e. fancy plastic, or an aluminum to make the reel much, much lighter. Visually the design, I feel, is without peer, but I would also like to see the line take up be a cross pattern redesigned for the sake of braided line. As -- braided line on these spools is too parallel to provide a good release upon casting. Once again -- great write up !!
Closing the bail manually or by reeling makes no difference when it comes to line twist. According to some, using the latter method increases the possibility that a loose loop of line gets trapped on the spool, which in turn can cause wind knots. Maybe that's true more so now than with the older-generation reels because of the increase in length of the spools - more windings next to each other (going up and down) are required and the possibility of a line loop or loose line to create havoc during the cast increases.
Great info - thanks for taking the time - I've noticed that the new reels also have a "cross" type spooling laying of the line of which makes the really small diameter braid dig in less and come off the spool much, much better -- of which is why my Cardinals really don't like the thin diameter braid - where it really gets too stuck and woven upon the cast. Those are my mono reels now.
What i would think is, They wanted more lightweight and less parts to mass produce. Perhaps also for rust/corrosion. But im more on the line of Why would they sell you 1 Reel when they can sell you the same one again and again and buy parts for. Either way Its a Reel Brain teaser hahaha.
Reels of today much like guns of today are made of plastic, polymer, and aluminum components, where guns of yesterday were made of 3 things, steel, stainless steel and wood. That Cardinal was built to last, show me the Revo in 40 years!
Stellar video. It’s so rare for me to see a video that makes me think. I grew up using both of these types of reels. I completely wore out the gears in my zebco in the 70’s. Having accidentally closed my bail while casting on occasion I’ve heard the snap and watched my bubble fly over lakes onto the shore. A locking bail certainly helped prevent that whether I was aware at the time or not. Modern reels have a tension mechanism that keeps the bail open. It of course can be triggered by reeling or by hand easily. I have developed the habit of triggering it by hand to control the distance of my casts and I shudder to think of not having the ability to do so. As for the reason for the change the browning spinning reels come to mind as a possibility. The bail locks kept breaking until they stopped making reels. I dropped some serious coin on them at the time only to find out they were not “the best there is”. The new reel design whether done for cost cutting or not is indispensable to my way of fishing. 👍
My first spinning reel,1961,did not lock. It was a prize won on a shuffleboard. Cheap,but lasted for my entire childhood.
Thanks for the reflection -- it's fun to remember what we went thru back in the day.
I never worried about line twist. I learned to close by hand to save the reel from the wear of slamming the bail closed with the handle. I think of a car door the day you buy it compared to 5 years later.
I appreciate the care you gave to your reels so I don't want you to think I'm being critical or a know-it-all. Have you listened to the sound the bail makes as it gets flipped? It sounds like a small ball on a spring that seats in each position (open or closed). In essence it is a bail lock of a different sort and not necessarily inferior.
Great info - so it's a bail lock of which is a bit dynamic without a physical permanent lock... hmmm ... I've never thought of that before ... thanks for pointing that out as that changes my mind to the engineering. It locks it in place, with as much as is needed, and then allows the reverse without impedance.
The new system is imo superior.
With the old Cardinal and Mitchell reels, there were some issues. Breaking bail springs - the Cardinals therefore already have two of em. Line wrapping around the bail arm, stuck line rollers, and the hard impact of the flipping bail are others. And you have to reel in for flipping the bail, not ideal for groundfishing with natural baits for example.
First change came in the late 70s, the overlapping skirted spool. Before that, the line was easily trapped under the spool, with the skirted spool design, this was much more unlikely to happen. This led to a different rotor design , from a bell shape to the two outreaching arms holding the bail. There are some reels which kept the bail stopper as it was, the Mitchell 906 for example, but there are quite large levers working, requiring heavy springs, causing much wear.
The back then more common L-shaped bailspring and the bail flipping lever, that didn't require a seperate spring any more, were less parts, shorter levers and could be fully enclosed against dirt. Just the bailsprings wore out fast.
So next big change in the late 80s was the implementation of a coil spring, that didn't wore out anymore and is nearly indestructible. Spools became higher and large arbor for better casting capabilities in the 90s, requiring even higher bail holding arms. The stamped sheet metal bail flipping lever of the 80s with its turning motion was changed to a wire type, that just lifts, Line rollers have a bigger diameter and often a ball bearing, The bail arms were rounded, so the line could not be trapped around them.
And due to the improvement of materials the nowadays reels are again as lightweight as the 60/70s Mitchells and some even lighter.
So what do we miss? The sound of the flipping bail, the easyness with which it flips (what has also disadvantages as accidental flipping) and the lovely design.
What did we get? Supersmooth but powerful, superlight reels that work flawlessly, with a shitload of ball bearings.
Is the modern system cheaper? Absolutely.
Does it work better? Also yes.
Will it last as long as the old ones? The bail system definitely yes, the rest of the reel most likely not. Except the Spools, those plastic spools of the old Cardinals were quite known for becoming grey by UV-rays and for breaking. So your reel with the bent bail arm is the reinforced large knob spool 90s replica anyway...
I also still fish my 60s-80s reels and i fish brandnew ones. Though the new ones are far better, i just see no reason to replace all the lovely still fine working old reels.
Great write up - thanks for taking the time for the group and myself. I cannot dispute anything of which you have said - you are spot on as I have experienced all of these aspects of which you describe. All have happen to me. Even with these deficiencies of the design and materials - I would so like to see the body of the reel and the spool cup, for the lack of a better word, all made of a reinforced carbon fiber, i.e. fancy plastic, or an aluminum to make the reel much, much lighter. Visually the design, I feel, is without peer, but I would also like to see the line take up be a cross pattern redesigned for the sake of braided line. As -- braided line on these spools is too parallel to provide a good release upon casting. Once again -- great write up !!
Closing the bail manually or by reeling makes no difference when it comes to line twist. According to some, using the latter method increases the possibility that a loose loop of line gets trapped on the spool, which in turn can cause wind knots. Maybe that's true more so now than with the older-generation reels because of the increase in length of the spools - more windings next to each other (going up and down) are required and the possibility of a line loop or loose line to create havoc during the cast increases.
Great info - thanks for taking the time - I've noticed that the new reels also have a "cross" type spooling laying of the line of which makes the really small diameter braid dig in less and come off the spool much, much better -- of which is why my Cardinals really don't like the thin diameter braid - where it really gets too stuck and woven upon the cast. Those are my mono reels now.
wish I still had my Cardinal 3 and Mitchell 300! Best reels ever!
Go get one on the EBay !! They are still available.
@@JSturr I will! I am not liking these new fancy reels up north here so far!
Weigh the reels there should be a few ounces difference by getting rid of the metal parts
You are exactly right - my Cardinal is a brick on the weight … crazy heavy - a carbon body on that system would be incredible.
What I'm looking at is where they placed the drag tensioner
Yes - no kidding there … drag systems have nothing on the Zebco Cardinal series…
What i would think is, They wanted more lightweight and less parts to mass produce. Perhaps also for rust/corrosion. But im more on the line of Why would they sell you 1 Reel when they can sell you the same one again and again and buy parts for. Either way Its a Reel Brain teaser hahaha.
Exactly -- very well said. As always -- trust but verify...
Reels of today much like guns of today are made of plastic, polymer, and aluminum components, where guns of yesterday were made of 3 things, steel, stainless steel and wood. That Cardinal was built to last, show me the Revo in 40 years!
So true -- the Revo is not a 40 year reel by any step...