@@brajamine windows has been terrible since 8. Spyware, ads, bloat, an, Inconsistent UI, forced use of a Microsoft account and the worst media player of all time. It's crap
I can't imagine playing below 60fps now after getting a capable gaming laptop I remember my old family pc that was all I had to play games ran them around 20fps and I thought that was good aha, I don't know how I didn't go crazy
Yeah. I got a gaming PC for my birthday last year and it’s really good. I was able to get a 3080 right before the shortage started. The difference between the two is insane
The hilarious irony is even as a humble Linux user, pc gaming is far more viable for me than for the Apple user thanks to the tireless efforts of the Wine developers and Valve. If Macs supported Vulkan instead of requiring Metal, this could change practically overnight.
yeah I feel Apple's insistance on making Metal instead of letting themselves support a more open standard will forever kill full AAA adoption. Sure the stuff mentioned in this video will help create a gaming space on MACs ... but in the end there is just little reason to deal with Metal. I get apple wants to own everything but this was one time they should have just been a bit less controling.
It's worth noting that Nintendo has also embraced ARM processors. the Switch uses an NVIDIA Tegra, and I am genuinely impressed with what that little tablet can pull off graphically.
There is a distinction between Mac hardware and macOS, you can dual-boot into Windows using Boot Camp on Intel Macs (or even virtualize) which will allow you to play Windows-only games with DirectX, so it's not like macOS is the true limiting factor. Main issue is many Macs come with weak integrated graphics that struggle with graphics-intensive games, it's possible to configure top-spec iMac with discrete graphics, but that's just expensive and worse-value which is why nobody is taking Mac gaming seriously. Things might change with Apple Silicon, only time will tell.
@@ZZaGGrrUzz No, one of the claims in this video is that Macs can’t run DirectX which is not true as you can dual-boot Windows (which will use real DirectX), or use virtualization or CrossOver/Wine (which translates DirectX calls to Metal/OpenGL). Even Linux gamers have to use similar workarounds. You don’t need to buy the expensive Mac Pro as mentioned on 5:11, there are other Mac offerings that have discrete graphics card too, or you can use a eGPU.
@@amyrosechaqueta That's briefly shown on 4:06 and known as Hackintosh :) If you like tinkering and willing to spend time, it can be an option, but there's always a chance that a macOS update breaks the whole system.
yeah my mac is a 2009 macbook air and i tell you how many times i go on steam and the good games run on windows i wish developers make mac versions shur i can run roblox tf2 world of tanks blitz under tail but that it
As someone Who has always been a Mac user, I’ve always hated it that I was never able to play some of the greatest games, yet never allowed to have a windows.
Ironically, gaming on Mac isn't a thing because gaming on Linux is now a thing, and getting much more traction than Apple will ever be able to. All because they refused to follow industry standards in order to push their own. I count this as the good future. Thanks Valve, you're the real MVP.
similar issue happened with their lightning charging cables. WHen speed charging because a thing the industry started to push USB-C as the new standard .... litterally everyone but apple played ball who instead pushed their own subtly different cable standard that hardly anyone makes port support for. Apple's obession with pushing their own standards is both their strength and curse. It basically forces their consumer base to stay extremely loyal. BUt it also locks out essentially any new customers as you either go all in or not at all.
@@danandlaundry Because someone cared enough about it. Doesn't mean the others will though, especially nowadays. Linux has been on this same endeavour in the past and now it's not anymore. If Apple wants to escape that fate, maybe it should do its homework, though I doubt it ever will knowing it's Apple we're talking about. They'd rather die than do obvious shit like using USB-C on their phones. Their fault I guess, open standards exist for a reason.
Once you buy a Mac...with the exception of more RAM and MAYBE the HD, there's no path of upgrading the Mac beyond buying a new Mac. And, most Macs, short of a Mac Pro, isn't going to have a GOOD video card, optimized for gaming. If you buy a PC and you know half-way what you're doing, you can upgrade and keep current a decent gaming PC for at least four to five years. A Mac for gaming? Pretty much every three years, easily.
They do last longer in my experience and tend to have less issues if you’re using it as intended. Even then I still wish they were upgradable but then again when is the last time the general population have even attempted to do that with their Windows computers?
More like 10 years. Had this Dell Optiplex 790 since 2012 and it can still run the newest games at 1080p with fast loading times after constantly upgrading the GPU and switching to an SSD.
@@snowfox7739 Do you actually mean the general population, or the gaming population? Because the latter is far more likely to upgrade considering it's cheaper than buying a whole new PC.
@@snowfox7739 General population has little reason to do radical upgrades until the system breaks completely, and even then more RAM and moving the OS to an SSD can make a old slow machine run better than when it was brand new, and in most systems these are rather simple upgrades. The reason Apple and a frightfully increasing number of brands are making their systems difficult or even impossible to upgrade or repair is money... If Apple can charge $800 for a single terabyte SSD, what reason would they have to let you upgrade to an off the shelf 1 TB Samsung 970 EVO for $100?
And that's why I'm a console gamer. You buy a console, you buy a game, and it just works. I've had one too many episodes as a kid trying to get games to run on my parents' computer only for SOMETHING to hinder the installation. I wasn't as resourceful as I am now, and good luck trying to educate my folks on getting a game to work.
I have a nephew who grew up playing Minecraft on an iPad knowing nothing else, and it blows my mind seeing him play literally as competently as someone with a keyboard and mouse. I don't get it lol
@@foxorian That's awesome, but let's look at games like the remake of Final Fantasy crystal chronicles, which ruined the experience for console players because it had to be built to satisfy mobile
@@soulhelper7027 That's not even a problem which only hits games but other applications as well. Once you start layout the UI based for touch screen input only to work on a phone and tablet, it becomes really awkward to simulate this kind of input with a mouse, keyboard or gamepad. You also have to adjust text size, symbols and other parts to get readable on smaller screens. Games designed to be played on big TVs (like console games) or on desktop monitors (in case of PC games) won't fit the same form factor even if the resolution is the same. As a developer or game designer you would also always need to consider that a player might not be able to see big portions of what's happening on the screen because their thumbs are in between. So there are a lot of problems when designing games for several kinds of input and form factor. I think it's much more reliable to port applications and games from desktop to mobile than the other way around because there simply is no multi touch input on the desktop which is pretty much impossible to simulate with mouse and keyboard if you're not integrating touch input to your laptop screens (which Apple does not do for some reason). What's funny is that while Apple might have all pieces around to bring games to their desktops, I doubt they will do that. On the other side they are not the only entity which could bring developers the ability to target one platform and it will run on each form factor... but the platform will be Linux. That's actually happening at the moment with the upcoming Steam Deck. It will run Linux but you can play most games, designed for Windows only. There are also tablets and phones getting released to run Linux, being able to play Half life for example already with only moderate specs hardware. As a developer you only have to target a mixture of the Linux kernel, the open Vulkan API and it can probably run on every device you want. The apps running on those Linux phones and tablets won't be developed explicitly for that either like with Android or iOS but they will be desktop application, adjusted to be usable with a touch screen on small form factor. So you don't have to develop the same app multiple times like you have to do currently with iOS, Android, Windows and such. I assume this will get more clear to many people when they play around with their Steam Deck (especially the desktop part of it besides just gaming). Developers won't target platforms explicitly as they do now in the future and Linux will probably be the most convenient option to develop for (also because it is nearly architecture independent - so it doesn't matter as much that a device uses ARM, x86 or even RISC-V).
I like that this is Saberspark 64 yet we almost never see the dude. I don't dislike this guy, I just find it weird it's like buying a copy of hitman and then the cd boots up splintercell.
It's a little weird that the channel is named after just one of the hosts when it's a total joint-venture, but I'm glad my boy Tom is getting some attention!
Cause Macs are underpowered for their price, run a BSD derived OS, and the market still isn't there? I feel the pain of some of that. Been exclusively on Linux for 11 years now on mostly recycled hardware. Also I love the spoken name for the open source DXVX: Dick's Vix. Microsoft has sense offered a Linux version of DX a few months after DXVX surpassed DX in ability and efficiency. Also Volkon is far more popular than Open GL lately.
I think the whole mobile gaming thing is a pretty big piece of why Apple is ignoring traditional gaming. Like it or not - mobile gaming is massively profitable. So from their point of view they already have a corner on gaming, and it makes sense for them to unify their efforts around mobile games rather than traditional games. Not great news for traditional gamers, but that's the way it is.
Issue though is you also have android which is Linux based and thus much more open on all fronts. Microsoft could easily leverage off this and build in better android game support into their PCs and in fact emulation is a bit thing on PC even if not officially supported most of the time. So while apple is doubling down on mobile games and ignoring all else entirely. Microsoft can more easily play catch up with a hand in every single aspect of gaming.
@@metazoxan2 As profitable as it is - mobile gaming is kinda terrible, especially if you're trying to map touch controls to mouse and keyboard. Android games are unlikely to make as much money on PC as they do on Android.
Not the same gaming. They couldn't even keep up with what an Xbox 360 or a ps3 could handle. PC can handle anything with the right hardware. PC is more universal in that area as well. You can interchange literally anything inside the desktops for something much better.
You touched upon this with the DirectX situation, but I thought I’d provide some information as well. My parents were computer programmers in the late 90s to mid 2000s, retiring in around 2016. I asked as a kid why they didn’t like macs- the reasoning they told me is that, for PCs, it was incredibly accessible to learn programming for it. There was open source and inexpensive programs to use, and it was not expensive to publish your work for others to use. But Apple didn’t allow that. The programming language was different, and you had to specifically pay Apple to even allow your program to run on their products. Apparently the price alone was so high, none of them wanted to put up with it. And why would they? PC programming is free and easy and most everyone uses PC. Apple’s products were not popular and too expensive to program for. Not sure if the hurdle is still quite as large now, but they told me this around 2005ish.
i have the vaguest memory of my childhood... i was visiting my aunt, and she only had a mac... and i had a bunch of game cd roms.... none of them worked.
As a Mac user, I have a hard time keeping up with games that are windows exclusive. I’m so far behind on my friends who all have gaming PCs, but I do art for living, which adds that I can’t have everything in the world and that I should focus on work more than play.
yeah I'm on the "I just game on console" camp, but tbh even if I could game on my Mac I wouldn't because I don't want to game on the same machine I use to work. it's psychological I want to separate the two fields.
Back in early 2012 when I was getting ready to go to college and be in a video game design program, I called the University's campus store to ask what computer they recommend I buy for the kind of work I'd be doing. They recommended the MacBook Pro 2012 which was brand new at the time of course. They said this would be best for design work. 11 Years later and I have Apple's latest MacBook Pro with a M1 Max chip. Those people in 2012 are right, my Mac was and still is great for design work, but DAMN I WANT TO PLAY GAMES!!
Agreed, I got a whole iPhone and iPad(for drawing mostly) but really hate using a Mac. Even got a Lenovo(PC) computer that runs better than most Mac computers/Books. There’s just so much more you can do on a PC than a Mac
@@screamingbean7509 only windows is way harder to use. I managed to get Minecraft running on my MacBook all by myself. however on windows I almost always need my dads help because windows is so hard to learn
@danandlaundry We are Doomed my little brother who's 8 knows how's how to get minecraft up and running on windows all by himself so let's hope you're younger.
Very well made video explaining the situation and it all makes total sense. Im a lifelong console player & I dont like whats going on in gaming at the moment so Im doing some research. Thank you for this great explanation.
Saberspark's video on mobile gaming is really good. If I were Apple, I would not bother trying to get into the gaming world. Catering to mobile games is far more lucrative.
9:16 The raw power of x86 chips have nothing to do with the Instruction Set Architecture (ISA) itself, and everything to do with legacy. x86 is an unnecessarily complex ISA with way too much history to speak of, and every year it gets more complicated and strange. We use x86 now because we used x86 in the past, and so much software has been written for it that we have to use it. There was never anything preventing high-powered ARM chips from being produced other than the lack of software for it. Ecosystems take a lot of companies mutually deciding to support a platform, and ARM didn't have that until companies were forced to use it because they needed power-efficiency for mobile devices. Then as it got more and more support, more software came to it, now you can use it for bigger uses as well. The world's fastest Super Computer runs on ARM after all.
Fun fact: APPLE joined BUNGIE to make HALO CE and was supposed to be in mac but APPLE was tired so APPLE unjoined them and after that BUNGIE joined MICROSOFT which will turn into HALO CE as we know today.
Honestly I’m way happier with my Mac than a pc I felt like I have to fight my pc to get it to work, every time I boot up my pc 20 different apps had to force start, endless updates that make everything worse, getting a virus on almost every website I got to, nonstop pop ups, drivers messing up even though you never touch them and every time you get an error there are literally 100’s of different things that can cause the problem so you need to take a shot in the dark, I’d rather keep a game console for gaming, plus the days when you could build a 400 dollar that was just as good as the current consoles, steam was the only gaming store that had sales always running and valve was putting out exclusives better than on consoles are long gone
Just to play a bit of devil's advocate. Those are all problems you could encounter with a mac as well. And those apps on startup, popups viruses, or such things can be avoided. As well as you can protect yourself from them. But if all you're wanting to do is boot up a pc without much else to think about I would agree a mac is suitable.
I have to disagree with you there, I've been a mac user for 3+ years for the entertainment industry. And I've experienced problems (Font issues, Freezing, Application not opening fast) on Mac as well. Yes, I've experienced that on windows as well, but at least there's more tech support and option for me to fix it without paying a dime. Plus, I can play games with my fellow collogues during game night Fridays after work. Mac is good for people with alot of money who don't bother learning simple troubleshooting. While Windows requires simple troubleshooting knowledge without costing anything for tech support. As for Linux, You'll need extensive knowledge on how OS works but at least if you learn it, you have more control to your OS than windows or mac.
Unlike PCs, Macs have actually been built on three different architectures since the early 90s. The newest Macs are using Apple's own custom ARM CPUs, before that it was Intel, and before 2006 they were using IBM's PowerPC chips. New Macs can't run PowerPC applications, like games from 1999.
The issues with Mac are not related just to it's graphics card output. The issue is Mac is a closed physical system with no right to repair, nor any ability to upgrade. You want to upgrade to the newest graphics card on a Mac? Your gonna need to drop another $2,000 minimum to get a new Mac, and that is just a STOCK Mac, no upgrades, no extra bits, nothing, and with the rate of advance with graphics and tech, each Mac could be expected to last MAYBE 4-5 years before needing to be replaced, and that's provided Apple's purposeful downgrading of their own system after the release of a new product (something they have admitted to and been sued for multiple times) means your Mac Book Pro likely won't even last that long. Comparatively, most PC users have at least some basic knowledge on how to crack open their PC and replace RAM or even GPUs. Being able to open my PC replace a fried GPU, or even a fried 7 y/o motherboard for less than $1k while replacing them with top of the line tech is beyond useful. With that most people know how to drip feed upgrades into their PC, making it last longer, all at a cheaper price, while not sacrificing quality. Again, compare this to Apple, if something breaks, you have no right to repair, if you Mac blue screens, your dome, better fork over another 2k, you want to upgrade to the newest GPU? Tough luck, buy another MacBook and throw away your old one. Add to this, yeah, mobile games are currently a trillion dollar market, but I doubt mom or grandma is about to fork over another 2k for a MacBook, in addition to the 1.5K the latest IPhone model goes for, just so they can play CandyCrush at the desk at home.
I see three things wrong with the Mac ecosystem in terms of gaming. 1) inconsistency between major updates: What works fine in Sierra may not work nearly as well or at all in the next major update. This is generally not a problem with Windows. 32-bit support was dropped COMPLETELY a few years ago, the main program can be 64-bit, but if the installer is only 32-bit, you can't install it. If a library it relies on is 32-bit it won't be fully featured if it even runs at all. 2) inconsistency with the core hardware: Apple's strict control over Mac hardware means they do whatever the hell they want. The switch to Apple Silicon is not the first time they did something like this, they ditched IBM's PowerPC chip for Intel back in like 2005. While it may not have hurt them in this regard, I can't really say it's been a boon either (aside from the library of iOS games being able to natively run) 3) refusal to support cross platform APIs like Vulkan: while it is true that most commercial engines make the job of targeting other APIs fairly simple, it's still more work they are requiring for not much benefit. It should also be noted, that while Microsoft does control DirectX, they don't force games to use it except on Xbox to my understanding. The worst they treat us on Windows is just "upgrade to Windows 11 to use the full suite of features in DirectX 12" And all that is just scratching the surface. There are more problems to the developers, traits about the Mac ecosystem that are just deal breakers to most PC gamers (upgradability being a prime reason for me). There's an indie dev called Pirate Software, and he quite plainly said that Mac was not worth the trouble of supporting. $800 in hardware minimum (Mac Mini), $100 a year on an XCode key, a hellish experience getting XCode to actually work and compile the game.... all for .02% of his sales; for every 5000 copies sold, one of them was for Mac. "Build it and they will come" won't work when you've already burned bridges and don't even try make the process easy or the ecosystem attractive to developers. The Switch is 7 years old, less powerful than the Xbox One, and third party teams are still hard at work building games for it even if they come much later than they did even on last gen consoles or look like complete crap in comparison (Mortal Kombat 1, Hogwarts Legacy, I'm looking squarely at you!!)
According to Thor, dat former Blizzard game dev, now running Pirate Software, claimed that you need to buy a Mac, then pay a license key for $100 ... yearly, and then coding and compiling the game on Xcode, and he hated using Xcode. If the compiling process failed, he had to reprovision the key, and re-compiling his source code all over again. all that hassle for 0.02% revenue.
Less familiar interface, less power, fewer options for overhaul/customization, higher cost... The Better question is why the Mac is still a surviving product line.
Someone came to the IT center I work at and asked us to factory reset a MacBook he forgot the password to. We had to tell him that the thing was effectively a really crappy flashlight since the drive was soldered to the mobo and could only be decrypted and wiped by the laptop... which had a password lock on it. I hate Apple, sure I get some free hours talking to a client about how "lmao you bought a Mac you idiot" but I hate having to tell people that they've lost money and data because some big corporation wants them to buy another laptop.
ive hated android for years not since 2016 and then this year I got a Mac and realised how bad windows is I dont even use my PC for Minecraft anymore as my MacBook can play Minecraft just fine
well mac isn't but apple is, the way they market their products is like they are trying to make you dependent on them they control their software and the hardware market with an iron grip.
Problem is that it's not that big enough for it. It's as only relevant as when minecraft and world of warcraft released for the Mac OS. Issue here right now is that Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo owns many former third party games like activision and bethesda. Macbooks are also crazy expensive and their prestige only last 1 year until a new one is released. Gamers coming from PC and console space don't like to buy a new Macbook yearly just to catch up to the latest games.
This video is both entertaining and enlightening. And while it's true that mac doesn't support Vulkan directly, they have this "abstraction layer" called MoltenVK that allows for Vulkan code to work or something. 😅I'm not a pro on APIs...
Ah yes, instead of directly supporting it and getting the best performance the hardware can support, run it through this translation layer and lose some performance!
Mac also has one other point stacked against it - upgradeability and reparability. Right now, it's easy to replace components that don't work on a PC or need an upgrade. Memory, CPU, heck even the motherboard can all be swapped out to enhance the system or replace damaged parts. Apple is making it increasingly hard to upgrade their devices, and their repair policy forces you to go through their own repair shops at a much-elevated cost.
I hope Apple doesn't become standard in tech. As a developer, i don't really care how incredible their processors are. Their infrastructure, ToS AppStore is a total shitshow to work with.
I have the same sentiment as you but for different reason, Everything Apple touches becomes expensive. If they got their hands on console gaming, They will set a standard of making it expensive.
This is one of the reasons why I don’t play on PC one it’s too complicated three I don’t wanna deal with Apple or Microsoft and third I just prefer Consuls it’s easier and more convenient and I don’t wanna have to worry about my PC not working plus I just don’t have the time or the money to spend on building a powerful PC
Consoles are slowly becoming a closed down PC. I prefer consoles that works on plug and play without installation and day one patch with a chance that can brick your console. I really think sixth console gen is the best era in console gaming. But after that era, Console started to become a closed PC. If I have to deal with that I would rather move to PC, at least I can get my work and gaming in one device. Probably the only console I own is the nintendo switch since most of the first party games work at launch without installation and a day one patch.
This video would be fine and accurate, if the M1, M1 Pro, and M1 Max didn't exist. It has nothing to do with performance anymore. The performance is there, the demand for gaming on the platform is not. Simple as that. The graphics api issue isn't a real hurdle whatsoever for any company that releases on multiple platforms already. Unity and Unreal both support Metal out of the box, as well as compiling for macOS. It's a chicken and egg problem of gamers have to play games on Mac to get developers to make games on Mac. Games for iOS are popular, and any game running on iOS would be trivial to port for Mac, especially if it already accept M/KB inputs. Getting games running on Mac or iOS is not the issue. A video full of endless conjecture and occasional half-truths.
You mean the M1 chip that only released 2 years ago? If it's only been around for 2 years I don't see how that works as a counterargument considering that Apple hasn't had a big gaming scene for years beforehand and considering he outright mentions that the M1 is a turning point for mac computing power. And keep in mind that I started gaming on Mac back with 90s games like Marathon so I've seen something of what Apple pushing for games on their platform can look like (let's not forget that the developer of marathon, bungie, had their later halo prototype debuted by Steve Jobs at macworld lol). The performance may be here _now_ but if Apple doesn't push for gaming on Mac then consumers aren't gonna step up because it's not their job to put games on Mac, nor the developers, it's on Apple to promote the brand as a gaming platform by encouraging ports and supporting development. There _is_ a market there and Mac compatible games, even ones running on M1, do exist, but if Apple doesn't treat gaming as important then it's not likely to grow much.
I literally have a MacBook Pro 16 inch 22' and it runs circles around all these PC's and yet I still can't play GTA 5 online literally all I want and I can't it breaks my hearts that I have 2 play on ps5
It’s bizarre reading comments from 2021+ that still referred to Macs using “weak” discrete graphics cards that couldn’t keep up with power munching RTX cards when none of the Mac models on shelves had discrete graphics after 2020. Also the Mac Pro isn’t the most powerful model, only the most expandable, and that does nothing for gaming. The substantially cheaper Mac Studio with an Ultra chip has the same power and efficiency, minus expansion slots that non-professionals would have no use for anyway. The problem with gaming on Mac is purely business decisions. Apple has the gaming toolkit to port Windows titles to Apple Silicon but nobody is utilizing it because there’s no market. But there’s no market because there are no games. There are no games because there’s no market. There’s no market… Some heavy hitters like Baldur’s Gate and Death Stranding are on MacOS but there is nothing outside of typical Apple pricing that seems to incentivize studios to port or develop native titles in greater numbers. I don’t know what can break the cycle outside of a huge dev like Rockstar or CDPR announcing their next big title getting a day one MacOS release and creating a viable market.
Really good video. The only thing I would add is that x86 won't simply be used because it achieves significant power but because of compatibility. Overall most people will need Windows to run on their PCs and Windows on ARM is quite a joke to be honest. But even more of a problem is the compatibility with their software which in many cases not only needs Windows to run but also Windows specific APIs and x86 instructions which ARM does not provide. So as long as you want to give people the option to run their old software designed for x86, you have to stay with that architecture. The only option besides is emulation which Apple did with Rosetta 2 but who knows how much something like this would break on Windows when you consider the wide range of hardware choice to match it with. Even consoles these days (at least XBox and PS) use x86 instructions to make porting games in between easier I assume. So I would say before AAA games will be ported to Apple silicon, we first need to get a transition to ARM on other desktops. But this will need really good x86 emulation... otherwise every gamer needs to choose between the new Windows machine which might not even run Adobe properly or their full gaming library of older games which might not run as well on the new machine. ^^'
My ailing iMac handles world of Warcraft fine, although the WiFi card died the other day (praise ethernet) I originally got it for creative things which play nicer on Apple from my experience. Genuinely considering setting up a dual boot for Windows to access more bits and pieces
Main resons games don't move to mac is possible profit they can make. mac have like 10% installbase vs pc keep that in mind. When consider market share smart phone take market share like 50% with big install base and big microtransaction. (marlet share android : iphone about 70:30) Dedicate "real game" run on console take like 30% marketshare. and While PC have market share like 20% there is low royalty fee vs console. What game you can expect on arm mac ? - port of iphone game ... What mac offer to "real game" game developer ? - 10% installbase vs pc. aka 10% on 20% ... it's like 2% of whole market ... - not consider that apple really want royalty ...
me using my MacBook Air to struggle through OpenEmu and crying over how difficult it is to get Windows to run on it: idk i just don't know if it's worth it to get into PC gaming :/
with the release of the M1 chip, i believe mac gaming will be a thing within the next 5-10 years IF the software compatability is adapted; apple needs to re-add vulkan support and/or create a rosetta 2 like feature for gaming.
If the market share is there. It's not like you can get a cheapo Mac capable of gaming like a windows PC. Putting in an old GPU into an office computer for people on a budget
Apple *never* had Vulkan support. They had OpenGL (They still have, but it's 4.1 and deprecated). As for Rosetta 2 for gaming: Do you mean something like Wine? There is CrossOver.
@@MaddTheSane it really makes me doubt when people say Mac OS has the potential to be a big player in the gaming market. No Vulkan or updated open GL and proton is used mainly for Linux. Who's going to dedicate a whole port on another API for another platform with a whole different CPU architecture?
This video got me reminiscing about some of Apple's... questionable marketing decisions in the past. Specifically, it used to be a selling point that NO ONE USED APPLE PRODUCTS. I mean, they didn't SAY that, but that's literally what "Mac has far fewer viruses than Windows" amounts to. When people who can and will completely drain your bank account think you aren't worth the effort, is it any surprise that gaming companies, (who effectively are only able to skim a bit off the top) pass on the endeavor?
I thought of something hilarious what if Vegeta grew his tail back then watched Sonic the hedgehog then he seen the moon while in super Saiyan blue evolution and he became super Saiyan blue four evolution and he says I look like Sonic the hedgehog
I would look into buying a Mac if it was the means of using it to editing and business. However, most people who I've know has bought their first gaming PC soly for the purpose of using it for music editing.
This is just Apple bringing iPhone apps and games to the big screen. I think it actually makes thing harder for game devs, because they would have to port their code from X86 to ARM. At this point it is more interesting to invest in games for Linux, specially with devices like Steam Deck.
nothing makes my wallet cry more than being both an artist and a gamer.
Uh oh. 😅I'm in danger...
Could still be worse as a money drain. If you collect trading cards to play competitively viable decks you'll be sinking a lot of money into packs.
How's that photoshop subscription?
Saaaaaaaaaaame
@@caldw615 no one asked
As an owner of a Mac, I am looking into getting a pc. My best friend is offering to make one for me, so I’m excited for that.
Fairs but current day windows is so unusable that I'm seriously gonna go Linux Mint just to not use win 11
@@drifter402 windows 10 still exists, and isn't "unusable"
@@brajamine 10 is absolutely horrid. Using it is what made me want to switch.
@@brajamine windows has been terrible since 8. Spyware, ads, bloat, an, Inconsistent UI, forced use of a Microsoft account and the worst media player of all time. It's crap
Windows or Linux?
Me getting 12 frames playing on a Mac from 2015 on lowest settings: *observe*
And yet there are people who praise Mac's superior rendering capabilities.
I can't imagine playing below 60fps now after getting a capable gaming laptop
I remember my old family pc that was all I had to play games ran them around 20fps and I thought that was good aha, I don't know how I didn't go crazy
Yeah. I got a gaming PC for my birthday last year and it’s really good. I was able to get a 3080 right before the shortage started. The difference between the two is insane
I used to play Minecraft on mine and WHOO _WHEE_ I had to turn down some settings
yet im getting perfectly smooth in Roblox and Minecraft on my 2015 MacBook Air
The hilarious irony is even as a humble Linux user, pc gaming is far more viable for me than for the Apple user thanks to the tireless efforts of the Wine developers and Valve. If Macs supported Vulkan instead of requiring Metal, this could change practically overnight.
Tell that to the hardcore Apple fans. They're in full denial about the limitations of Metal.
yeah I feel Apple's insistance on making Metal instead of letting themselves support a more open standard will forever kill full AAA adoption.
Sure the stuff mentioned in this video will help create a gaming space on MACs ... but in the end there is just little reason to deal with Metal.
I get apple wants to own everything but this was one time they should have just been a bit less controling.
It's worth noting that Nintendo has also embraced ARM processors. the Switch uses an NVIDIA Tegra, and I am genuinely impressed with what that little tablet can pull off graphically.
graphics don't really have much to do with the CPU ISA
@@defeqel6537 But it does influence a SoC.
I think Nintendo has been on ARM forever in their handhelds.
3:45 grand dad
EDIT: wait did you guys accidentally use a Siivagunner rip
There is a distinction between Mac hardware and macOS, you can dual-boot into Windows using Boot Camp on Intel Macs (or even virtualize) which will allow you to play Windows-only games with DirectX, so it's not like macOS is the true limiting factor.
Main issue is many Macs come with weak integrated graphics that struggle with graphics-intensive games, it's possible to configure top-spec iMac with discrete graphics, but that's just expensive and worse-value which is why nobody is taking Mac gaming seriously. Things might change with Apple Silicon, only time will tell.
Imagine if you can have macOS in a normal pc ans dual-boot with windows, you get the best thing from Windows and MacOS
it's almost like he was talking exactly about that in the video, huh???
@@ZZaGGrrUzz No, one of the claims in this video is that Macs can’t run DirectX which is not true as you can dual-boot Windows (which will use real DirectX), or use virtualization or CrossOver/Wine (which translates DirectX calls to Metal/OpenGL). Even Linux gamers have to use similar workarounds.
You don’t need to buy the expensive Mac Pro as mentioned on 5:11, there are other Mac offerings that have discrete graphics card too, or you can use a eGPU.
@@amyrosechaqueta That's briefly shown on 4:06 and known as Hackintosh :) If you like tinkering and willing to spend time, it can be an option, but there's always a chance that a macOS update breaks the whole system.
yeah my mac is a 2009 macbook air and i tell you how many times i go on steam and the good games run on windows i wish developers make mac versions shur i can run roblox tf2 world of tanks blitz under tail but that it
As someone Who has always been a Mac user, I’ve always hated it that I was never able to play some of the greatest games, yet never allowed to have a windows.
Atleast you can buy new laptops while I have to sit with my 14 years old laptop with window
I bet everyone is giving Luigi Death Stares to Scott the Woz
Ironically, gaming on Mac isn't a thing because gaming on Linux is now a thing, and getting much more traction than Apple will ever be able to. All because they refused to follow industry standards in order to push their own.
I count this as the good future. Thanks Valve, you're the real MVP.
similar issue happened with their lightning charging cables.
WHen speed charging because a thing the industry started to push USB-C as the new standard .... litterally everyone but apple played ball who instead pushed their own subtly different cable standard that hardly anyone makes port support for.
Apple's obession with pushing their own standards is both their strength and curse. It basically forces their consumer base to stay extremely loyal. BUt it also locks out essentially any new customers as you either go all in or not at all.
then why does my 2015 MacBook Air have Minecraft and roblox on it???
@@danandlaundry Because someone cared enough about it. Doesn't mean the others will though, especially nowadays. Linux has been on this same endeavour in the past and now it's not anymore. If Apple wants to escape that fate, maybe it should do its homework, though I doubt it ever will knowing it's Apple we're talking about. They'd rather die than do obvious shit like using USB-C on their phones. Their fault I guess, open standards exist for a reason.
Once you buy a Mac...with the exception of more RAM and MAYBE the HD, there's no path of upgrading the Mac beyond buying a new Mac. And, most Macs, short of a Mac Pro, isn't going to have a GOOD video card, optimized for gaming.
If you buy a PC and you know half-way what you're doing, you can upgrade and keep current a decent gaming PC for at least four to five years. A Mac for gaming? Pretty much every three years, easily.
They do last longer in my experience and tend to have less issues if you’re using it as intended. Even then I still wish they were upgradable but then again when is the last time the general population have even attempted to do that with their Windows computers?
More like 10 years. Had this Dell Optiplex 790 since 2012 and it can still run the newest games at 1080p with fast loading times after constantly upgrading the GPU and switching to an SSD.
@@snowfox7739 Do you actually mean the general population, or the gaming population? Because the latter is far more likely to upgrade considering it's cheaper than buying a whole new PC.
@@snowfox7739 General population has little reason to do radical upgrades until the system breaks completely, and even then more RAM and moving the OS to an SSD can make a old slow machine run better than when it was brand new, and in most systems these are rather simple upgrades.
The reason Apple and a frightfully increasing number of brands are making their systems difficult or even impossible to upgrade or repair is money... If Apple can charge $800 for a single terabyte SSD, what reason would they have to let you upgrade to an off the shelf 1 TB Samsung 970 EVO for $100?
And that's why I'm a console gamer. You buy a console, you buy a game, and it just works. I've had one too many episodes as a kid trying to get games to run on my parents' computer only for SOMETHING to hinder the installation. I wasn't as resourceful as I am now, and good luck trying to educate my folks on getting a game to work.
The issue is any game released for mac would have to accommodate the mobile market for how it plays, meaning a downgrade in controls
I have a nephew who grew up playing Minecraft on an iPad knowing nothing else, and it blows my mind seeing him play literally as competently as someone with a keyboard and mouse. I don't get it lol
@@foxorian That's awesome, but let's look at games like the remake of Final Fantasy crystal chronicles, which ruined the experience for console players because it had to be built to satisfy mobile
@@soulhelper7027 That's not even a problem which only hits games but other applications as well. Once you start layout the UI based for touch screen input only to work on a phone and tablet, it becomes really awkward to simulate this kind of input with a mouse, keyboard or gamepad.
You also have to adjust text size, symbols and other parts to get readable on smaller screens. Games designed to be played on big TVs (like console games) or on desktop monitors (in case of PC games) won't fit the same form factor even if the resolution is the same.
As a developer or game designer you would also always need to consider that a player might not be able to see big portions of what's happening on the screen because their thumbs are in between. So there are a lot of problems when designing games for several kinds of input and form factor.
I think it's much more reliable to port applications and games from desktop to mobile than the other way around because there simply is no multi touch input on the desktop which is pretty much impossible to simulate with mouse and keyboard if you're not integrating touch input to your laptop screens (which Apple does not do for some reason).
What's funny is that while Apple might have all pieces around to bring games to their desktops, I doubt they will do that. On the other side they are not the only entity which could bring developers the ability to target one platform and it will run on each form factor... but the platform will be Linux.
That's actually happening at the moment with the upcoming Steam Deck. It will run Linux but you can play most games, designed for Windows only. There are also tablets and phones getting released to run Linux, being able to play Half life for example already with only moderate specs hardware. As a developer you only have to target a mixture of the Linux kernel, the open Vulkan API and it can probably run on every device you want. The apps running on those Linux phones and tablets won't be developed explicitly for that either like with Android or iOS but they will be desktop application, adjusted to be usable with a touch screen on small form factor. So you don't have to develop the same app multiple times like you have to do currently with iOS, Android, Windows and such.
I assume this will get more clear to many people when they play around with their Steam Deck (especially the desktop part of it besides just gaming). Developers won't target platforms explicitly as they do now in the future and Linux will probably be the most convenient option to develop for (also because it is nearly architecture independent - so it doesn't matter as much that a device uses ARM, x86 or even RISC-V).
Imagine branding yourself to a corporation that doesn't give a sh*t about you
I like that this is Saberspark 64 yet we almost never see the dude. I don't dislike this guy, I just find it weird it's like buying a copy of hitman and then the cd boots up splintercell.
It's a little weird that the channel is named after just one of the hosts when it's a total joint-venture, but I'm glad my boy Tom is getting some attention!
@@nyuuronfly right? Like if Tom is like the lead on this channel he should be included on the billing.
Cause Macs are underpowered for their price, run a BSD derived OS, and the market still isn't there?
I feel the pain of some of that. Been exclusively on Linux for 11 years now on mostly recycled hardware.
Also I love the spoken name for the open source DXVX: Dick's Vix. Microsoft has sense offered a Linux version of DX a few months after DXVX surpassed DX in ability and efficiency.
Also Volkon is far more popular than Open GL lately.
Don't PS4 and Switch use FreeBSD code for their OSes?
Give your editor a raise for good taste in musical sources.
I think the whole mobile gaming thing is a pretty big piece of why Apple is ignoring traditional gaming. Like it or not - mobile gaming is massively profitable. So from their point of view they already have a corner on gaming, and it makes sense for them to unify their efforts around mobile games rather than traditional games. Not great news for traditional gamers, but that's the way it is.
Issue though is you also have android which is Linux based and thus much more open on all fronts.
Microsoft could easily leverage off this and build in better android game support into their PCs and in fact emulation is a bit thing on PC even if not officially supported most of the time.
So while apple is doubling down on mobile games and ignoring all else entirely. Microsoft can more easily play catch up with a hand in every single aspect of gaming.
@@metazoxan2 As profitable as it is - mobile gaming is kinda terrible, especially if you're trying to map touch controls to mouse and keyboard. Android games are unlikely to make as much money on PC as they do on Android.
Not the same gaming. They couldn't even keep up with what an Xbox 360 or a ps3 could handle. PC can handle anything with the right hardware. PC is more universal in that area as well. You can interchange literally anything inside the desktops for something much better.
@@theabileneranchertar7882 Oh, I totally agree! Unfortunately, I don't think Apple sees it that way.
You touched upon this with the DirectX situation, but I thought I’d provide some information as well. My parents were computer programmers in the late 90s to mid 2000s, retiring in around 2016. I asked as a kid why they didn’t like macs- the reasoning they told me is that, for PCs, it was incredibly accessible to learn programming for it. There was open source and inexpensive programs to use, and it was not expensive to publish your work for others to use. But Apple didn’t allow that. The programming language was different, and you had to specifically pay Apple to even allow your program to run on their products. Apparently the price alone was so high, none of them wanted to put up with it. And why would they? PC programming is free and easy and most everyone uses PC. Apple’s products were not popular and too expensive to program for. Not sure if the hurdle is still quite as large now, but they told me this around 2005ish.
From a creator called Pirate Software, an XCode license is $100/yr, and getting it to work was a hellish experience. He even called it "dogshit"
I love the PS2 graphic model
I didn't expect this video to have such a grand soundtrack.
i have the vaguest memory of my childhood... i was visiting my aunt, and she only had a mac... and i had a bunch of game cd roms.... none of them worked.
I really like the beginning clip of the Linux user running in and smashing the giant iPad.
In before some psychopath mentions in the comments how they play games on a mac
The games weren’t always the mainstream titles but I’ll keep my fond memories of the Dark Castle series.
As a Mac user, I have a hard time keeping up with games that are windows exclusive. I’m so far behind on my friends who all have gaming PCs, but I do art for living, which adds that I can’t have everything in the world and that I should focus on work more than play.
Whoever told you that macs are neccessary for doing art for living... You've been lied to, mate.
@@DarthBiomech windows is garbage. my gaming pc running windows 10 got bsod for no reason
NOT THE FLINTSTONES BACKGROUND MUSIC 😭
Simple answer: it's too expensive.
I'm actually really excited for more RISC-V platforms... I guess arm chips are cool too...
Same, an open hardware with no licence fee is quite appealing and is slowly taking the co processor role from ARM
I really wish the upcoming RISC-V to be the x86 successor. I doubt it would completely replace ARM because of mobile devices.
I remember when Apple actually first showed Halo
It probably doesn’t help that when Apple tried to release the console the Apple Pippin in 1996, it sold less than 42,000 units.
yeah I'm on the "I just game on console" camp, but tbh even if I could game on my Mac I wouldn't because I don't want to game on the same machine I use to work. it's psychological I want to separate the two fields.
Back in early 2012 when I was getting ready to go to college and be in a video game design program, I called the University's campus store to ask what computer they recommend I buy for the kind of work I'd be doing. They recommended the MacBook Pro 2012 which was brand new at the time of course. They said this would be best for design work. 11 Years later and I have Apple's latest MacBook Pro with a M1 Max chip. Those people in 2012 are right, my Mac was and still is great for design work, but DAMN I WANT TO PLAY GAMES!!
Because PC is superior
Agreed, I got a whole iPhone and iPad(for drawing mostly) but really hate using a Mac. Even got a Lenovo(PC) computer that runs better than most Mac computers/Books. There’s just so much more you can do on a PC than a Mac
@@screamingbean7509 only windows is way harder to use. I managed to get Minecraft running on my MacBook all by myself. however on windows I almost always need my dads help because windows is so hard to learn
@danandlaundry We are Doomed my little brother who's 8 knows how's how to get minecraft up and running on windows all by himself so let's hope you're younger.
Very well made video explaining the situation and it all makes total sense. Im a lifelong console player & I dont like whats going on in gaming at the moment so Im doing some research. Thank you for this great explanation.
Saberspark's video on mobile gaming is really good. If I were Apple, I would not bother trying to get into the gaming world. Catering to mobile games is far more lucrative.
Reminds me of your older videos Tom. Miss them.
9:16 The raw power of x86 chips have nothing to do with the Instruction Set Architecture (ISA) itself, and everything to do with legacy. x86 is an unnecessarily complex ISA with way too much history to speak of, and every year it gets more complicated and strange. We use x86 now because we used x86 in the past, and so much software has been written for it that we have to use it. There was never anything preventing high-powered ARM chips from being produced other than the lack of software for it. Ecosystems take a lot of companies mutually deciding to support a platform, and ARM didn't have that until companies were forced to use it because they needed power-efficiency for mobile devices. Then as it got more and more support, more software came to it, now you can use it for bigger uses as well. The world's fastest Super Computer runs on ARM after all.
Fun fact: APPLE joined BUNGIE to make HALO CE and was supposed to be in mac but APPLE was tired so APPLE unjoined them and after that BUNGIE joined MICROSOFT which will turn into HALO CE as we know today.
As someone who is not a gamer thank you for explaining this!
im really starting to hate my mac
Saberspark, looking and sounding so attractive on this channel
thank you Tom for expanding my knowledge of tech
Honestly I’m way happier with my Mac than a pc I felt like I have to fight my pc to get it to work, every time I boot up my pc 20 different apps had to force start, endless updates that make everything worse, getting a virus on almost every website I got to, nonstop pop ups, drivers messing up even though you never touch them and every time you get an error there are literally 100’s of different things that can cause the problem so you need to take a shot in the dark, I’d rather keep a game console for gaming, plus the days when you could build a 400 dollar that was just as good as the current consoles, steam was the only gaming store that had sales always running and valve was putting out exclusives better than on consoles are long gone
Just to play a bit of devil's advocate. Those are all problems you could encounter with a mac as well. And those apps on startup, popups viruses, or such things can be avoided. As well as you can protect yourself from them. But if all you're wanting to do is boot up a pc without much else to think about I would agree a mac is suitable.
That sound like a hacked windows install
I have to disagree with you there, I've been a mac user for 3+ years for the entertainment industry. And I've experienced problems (Font issues, Freezing, Application not opening fast) on Mac as well. Yes, I've experienced that on windows as well, but at least there's more tech support and option for me to fix it without paying a dime. Plus, I can play games with my fellow collogues during game night Fridays after work. Mac is good for people with alot of money who don't bother learning simple troubleshooting. While Windows requires simple troubleshooting knowledge without costing anything for tech support. As for Linux, You'll need extensive knowledge on how OS works but at least if you learn it, you have more control to your OS than windows or mac.
Ok, but I still don't understand why my brand new MacBook Pro can't install/play Star Trek Birth of the Federation, a game from 1999.
Unlike PCs, Macs have actually been built on three different architectures since the early 90s. The newest Macs are using Apple's own custom ARM CPUs, before that it was Intel, and before 2006 they were using IBM's PowerPC chips. New Macs can't run PowerPC applications, like games from 1999.
what are the odds they use windows editing their presentations?
2:55 It's alright because when you said that I was thinking about the PlayStation 2
The issues with Mac are not related just to it's graphics card output. The issue is Mac is a closed physical system with no right to repair, nor any ability to upgrade. You want to upgrade to the newest graphics card on a Mac? Your gonna need to drop another $2,000 minimum to get a new Mac, and that is just a STOCK Mac, no upgrades, no extra bits, nothing, and with the rate of advance with graphics and tech, each Mac could be expected to last MAYBE 4-5 years before needing to be replaced, and that's provided Apple's purposeful downgrading of their own system after the release of a new product (something they have admitted to and been sued for multiple times) means your Mac Book Pro likely won't even last that long.
Comparatively, most PC users have at least some basic knowledge on how to crack open their PC and replace RAM or even GPUs. Being able to open my PC replace a fried GPU, or even a fried 7 y/o motherboard for less than $1k while replacing them with top of the line tech is beyond useful. With that most people know how to drip feed upgrades into their PC, making it last longer, all at a cheaper price, while not sacrificing quality. Again, compare this to Apple, if something breaks, you have no right to repair, if you Mac blue screens, your dome, better fork over another 2k, you want to upgrade to the newest GPU? Tough luck, buy another MacBook and throw away your old one. Add to this, yeah, mobile games are currently a trillion dollar market, but I doubt mom or grandma is about to fork over another 2k for a MacBook, in addition to the 1.5K the latest IPhone model goes for, just so they can play CandyCrush at the desk at home.
I see three things wrong with the Mac ecosystem in terms of gaming.
1) inconsistency between major updates: What works fine in Sierra may not work nearly as well or at all in the next major update. This is generally not a problem with Windows. 32-bit support was dropped COMPLETELY a few years ago, the main program can be 64-bit, but if the installer is only 32-bit, you can't install it. If a library it relies on is 32-bit it won't be fully featured if it even runs at all.
2) inconsistency with the core hardware: Apple's strict control over Mac hardware means they do whatever the hell they want. The switch to Apple Silicon is not the first time they did something like this, they ditched IBM's PowerPC chip for Intel back in like 2005. While it may not have hurt them in this regard, I can't really say it's been a boon either (aside from the library of iOS games being able to natively run)
3) refusal to support cross platform APIs like Vulkan: while it is true that most commercial engines make the job of targeting other APIs fairly simple, it's still more work they are requiring for not much benefit. It should also be noted, that while Microsoft does control DirectX, they don't force games to use it except on Xbox to my understanding. The worst they treat us on Windows is just "upgrade to Windows 11 to use the full suite of features in DirectX 12"
And all that is just scratching the surface. There are more problems to the developers, traits about the Mac ecosystem that are just deal breakers to most PC gamers (upgradability being a prime reason for me).
There's an indie dev called Pirate Software, and he quite plainly said that Mac was not worth the trouble of supporting. $800 in hardware minimum (Mac Mini), $100 a year on an XCode key, a hellish experience getting XCode to actually work and compile the game.... all for .02% of his sales; for every 5000 copies sold, one of them was for Mac.
"Build it and they will come" won't work when you've already burned bridges and don't even try make the process easy or the ecosystem attractive to developers. The Switch is 7 years old, less powerful than the Xbox One, and third party teams are still hard at work building games for it even if they come much later than they did even on last gen consoles or look like complete crap in comparison (Mortal Kombat 1, Hogwarts Legacy, I'm looking squarely at you!!)
According to Thor, dat former Blizzard game dev, now running Pirate Software, claimed that you need to buy a Mac, then pay a license key for $100 ... yearly, and then coding and compiling the game on Xcode, and he hated using Xcode. If the compiling process failed, he had to reprovision the key, and re-compiling his source code all over again.
all that hassle for 0.02% revenue.
The scream I just screamt with the Myst footage 😂😂😂😂
Less familiar interface, less power, fewer options for overhaul/customization, higher cost...
The Better question is why the Mac is still a surviving product line.
3:52 That's some *HIGH QAULITY* music you got there
Trying to focus on the video while High Quality Rips are playing in the background.
Someone came to the IT center I work at and asked us to factory reset a MacBook he forgot the password to. We had to tell him that the thing was effectively a really crappy flashlight since the drive was soldered to the mobo and could only be decrypted and wiped by the laptop... which had a password lock on it. I hate Apple, sure I get some free hours talking to a client about how "lmao you bought a Mac you idiot" but I hate having to tell people that they've lost money and data because some big corporation wants them to buy another laptop.
Thank you for reminding me again to never buy anything from Apple.
ive hated android for years not since 2016 and then this year I got a Mac and realised how bad windows is I dont even use my PC for Minecraft anymore as my MacBook can play Minecraft just fine
Imma be real with you. I always thought the mac was shit.
well mac isn't but apple is, the way they market their products is like they are trying to make you dependent on them they control their software and the hardware market with an iron grip.
I used to have a mac, it was so bad for gaming. But hey, at least it was working… a little bit. I hated it
Thanks for the video!
Are you...
...are you using Siivagunner rips for this video?
Apple got capcom to release resident evil 8 on mac, which was announced on their last shows case. (Also the no man’s sky team to add no man’s sky)
Problem is that it's not that big enough for it. It's as only relevant as when minecraft and world of warcraft released for the Mac OS. Issue here right now is that Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo owns many former third party games like activision and bethesda. Macbooks are also crazy expensive and their prestige only last 1 year until a new one is released. Gamers coming from PC and console space don't like to buy a new Macbook yearly just to catch up to the latest games.
This video is both entertaining and enlightening.
And while it's true that mac doesn't support Vulkan directly, they have this "abstraction layer" called MoltenVK that allows for Vulkan code to work or something. 😅I'm not a pro on APIs...
Ah yes, instead of directly supporting it and getting the best performance the hardware can support, run it through this translation layer and lose some performance!
@@ZeldagigafanMatthew not my problem
They once did the Pippin.
Great explanation
I had to game on a mac because that's what my mom bought me, later I managed to get a gaming pc of my own
This aged horribly 😂
The only game I can run on my iMac is Minecraft and it can barely do that
Mac also has one other point stacked against it - upgradeability and reparability. Right now, it's easy to replace components that don't work on a PC or need an upgrade. Memory, CPU, heck even the motherboard can all be swapped out to enhance the system or replace damaged parts. Apple is making it increasingly hard to upgrade their devices, and their repair policy forces you to go through their own repair shops at a much-elevated cost.
The M1 max will be the fastest apple processor.
iOS can run games, and M1 is based on iOS's processor.
I hope Apple doesn't become standard in tech. As a developer, i don't really care how incredible their processors are. Their infrastructure, ToS AppStore is a total shitshow to work with.
I have the same sentiment as you but for different reason, Everything Apple touches becomes expensive. If they got their hands on console gaming, They will set a standard of making it expensive.
This is one of the reasons why I don’t play on PC one it’s too complicated three I don’t wanna deal with Apple or Microsoft and third I just prefer Consuls it’s easier and more convenient and I don’t wanna have to worry about my PC not working plus I just don’t have the time or the money to spend on building a powerful PC
Consoles are slowly becoming a closed down PC. I prefer consoles that works on plug and play without installation and day one patch with a chance that can brick your console. I really think sixth console gen is the best era in console gaming. But after that era, Console started to become a closed PC. If I have to deal with that I would rather move to PC, at least I can get my work and gaming in one device. Probably the only console I own is the nintendo switch since most of the first party games work at launch without installation and a day one patch.
MacOS is a great system, even if you can’t game
some games like roblox and Minecraft java edition can be played on both Mac and windows
As a guy who loves Apple stuff I'm happy that PCs got the better games. I used to have Windows XP a lot as a kid.
Macs are computers ?
I hope your being irronic
Nah there glorified tablets with a keyboard
Always have been.
It seems Apple might be taking gaming more seriously at WWDC this year, so maybe we could see something come of it, who knows.
This video would be fine and accurate, if the M1, M1 Pro, and M1 Max didn't exist. It has nothing to do with performance anymore. The performance is there, the demand for gaming on the platform is not. Simple as that. The graphics api issue isn't a real hurdle whatsoever for any company that releases on multiple platforms already. Unity and Unreal both support Metal out of the box, as well as compiling for macOS. It's a chicken and egg problem of gamers have to play games on Mac to get developers to make games on Mac. Games for iOS are popular, and any game running on iOS would be trivial to port for Mac, especially if it already accept M/KB inputs. Getting games running on Mac or iOS is not the issue. A video full of endless conjecture and occasional half-truths.
You mean the M1 chip that only released 2 years ago? If it's only been around for 2 years I don't see how that works as a counterargument considering that Apple hasn't had a big gaming scene for years beforehand and considering he outright mentions that the M1 is a turning point for mac computing power. And keep in mind that I started gaming on Mac back with 90s games like Marathon so I've seen something of what Apple pushing for games on their platform can look like (let's not forget that the developer of marathon, bungie, had their later halo prototype debuted by Steve Jobs at macworld lol).
The performance may be here _now_ but if Apple doesn't push for gaming on Mac then consumers aren't gonna step up because it's not their job to put games on Mac, nor the developers, it's on Apple to promote the brand as a gaming platform by encouraging ports and supporting development. There _is_ a market there and Mac compatible games, even ones running on M1, do exist, but if Apple doesn't treat gaming as important then it's not likely to grow much.
I literally have a MacBook Pro 16 inch 22' and it runs circles around all these PC's and yet I still can't play GTA 5 online literally all I want and I can't it breaks my hearts that I have 2 play on ps5
It’s bizarre reading comments from 2021+ that still referred to Macs using “weak” discrete graphics cards that couldn’t keep up with power munching RTX cards when none of the Mac models on shelves had discrete graphics after 2020.
Also the Mac Pro isn’t the most powerful model, only the most expandable, and that does nothing for gaming. The substantially cheaper Mac Studio with an Ultra chip has the same power and efficiency, minus expansion slots that non-professionals would have no use for anyway.
The problem with gaming on Mac is purely business decisions. Apple has the gaming toolkit to port Windows titles to Apple Silicon but nobody is utilizing it because there’s no market. But there’s no market because there are no games. There are no games because there’s no market. There’s no market…
Some heavy hitters like Baldur’s Gate and Death Stranding are on MacOS but there is nothing outside of typical Apple pricing that seems to incentivize studios to port or develop native titles in greater numbers. I don’t know what can break the cycle outside of a huge dev like Rockstar or CDPR announcing their next big title getting a day one MacOS release and creating a viable market.
Really good video. The only thing I would add is that x86 won't simply be used because it achieves significant power but because of compatibility. Overall most people will need Windows to run on their PCs and Windows on ARM is quite a joke to be honest. But even more of a problem is the compatibility with their software which in many cases not only needs Windows to run but also Windows specific APIs and x86 instructions which ARM does not provide.
So as long as you want to give people the option to run their old software designed for x86, you have to stay with that architecture. The only option besides is emulation which Apple did with Rosetta 2 but who knows how much something like this would break on Windows when you consider the wide range of hardware choice to match it with.
Even consoles these days (at least XBox and PS) use x86 instructions to make porting games in between easier I assume. So I would say before AAA games will be ported to Apple silicon, we first need to get a transition to ARM on other desktops. But this will need really good x86 emulation... otherwise every gamer needs to choose between the new Windows machine which might not even run Adobe properly or their full gaming library of older games which might not run as well on the new machine. ^^'
You can game better on an iPhone than a MacBook.
I heard somewhere that the Mac has more impressive Apple arcade games
My ailing iMac handles world of Warcraft fine, although the WiFi card died the other day (praise ethernet) I originally got it for creative things which play nicer on Apple from my experience. Genuinely considering setting up a dual boot for Windows to access more bits and pieces
People : Mac is bad for gaming
Apple : that's why we launches iPhone
i still dont understand why would anyone get a mac though....
For ultimate productivity.
Especially those who are businessman, artist, architect, etc.
Main resons games don't move to mac is possible profit they can make. mac have like 10% installbase vs pc keep that in mind.
When consider market share smart phone take market share like 50% with big install base and big microtransaction. (marlet share android : iphone about 70:30)
Dedicate "real game" run on console take like 30% marketshare.
and While PC have market share like 20% there is low royalty fee vs console.
What game you can expect on arm mac ?
- port of iphone game ...
What mac offer to "real game" game developer ?
- 10% installbase vs pc. aka 10% on 20% ... it's like 2% of whole market ...
- not consider that apple really want royalty ...
me using my MacBook Air to struggle through OpenEmu and crying over how difficult it is to get Windows to run on it: idk i just don't know if it's worth it to get into PC gaming :/
with the release of the M1 chip, i believe mac gaming will be a thing within the next 5-10 years IF the software compatability is adapted; apple needs to re-add vulkan support and/or create a rosetta 2 like feature for gaming.
If the market share is there. It's not like you can get a cheapo Mac capable of gaming like a windows PC. Putting in an old GPU into an office computer for people on a budget
Apple *never* had Vulkan support. They had OpenGL (They still have, but it's 4.1 and deprecated). As for Rosetta 2 for gaming: Do you mean something like Wine? There is CrossOver.
@@MaddTheSane it really makes me doubt when people say Mac OS has the potential to be a big player in the gaming market. No Vulkan or updated open GL and proton is used mainly for Linux.
Who's going to dedicate a whole port on another API for another platform with a whole different CPU architecture?
*Me playing Minecraft and Gmod on a mac.* HA
*Me back in 2015 playing Shadow of Mordor on a Mac* I HAVE THE POWER!!!!
me playing roblox and Minecraft on my 2015 MacBook Air in the year 2022 so HAHA gaming on Mac DOES exist
Tbh, we're sooner gonna see someone make Wine+QEMU run games on M1 Linux, than Apple convincing developers to port their games to metal
Steam OS! Steam deck!
This video got me reminiscing about some of Apple's... questionable marketing decisions in the past. Specifically, it used to be a selling point that NO ONE USED APPLE PRODUCTS. I mean, they didn't SAY that, but that's literally what "Mac has far fewer viruses than Windows" amounts to. When people who can and will completely drain your bank account think you aren't worth the effort, is it any surprise that gaming companies, (who effectively are only able to skim a bit off the top) pass on the endeavor?
if the people on the asahi linux project get Vulkan working on arm it will be better to game on linux on mac than on macos
Next up: Why Gaming On Linux Isn't A Thing.
Edit: Go ahead and crucify me in the comments.
This is sad I have a 2012 MacBook Pro that plays 32 bit games and it’s wonderful I wish apple would try harder
I thought of something hilarious what if Vegeta grew his tail back then watched Sonic the hedgehog then he seen the moon while in super Saiyan blue evolution and he became super Saiyan blue four evolution and he says I look like Sonic the hedgehog
I would look into buying a Mac if it was the means of using it to editing and business. However, most people who I've know has bought their first gaming PC soly for the purpose of using it for music editing.
I love seeing a cool game that would be awesome to play just to notice it’s only on windows 😐
Why is grandad playing in the background
Edit: timestamp 4:33
This is just Apple bringing iPhone apps and games to the big screen. I think it actually makes thing harder for game devs, because they would have to port their code from X86 to ARM. At this point it is more interesting to invest in games for Linux, specially with devices like Steam Deck.
I used to play Xonotic on a Mac.
Heeey under 100