'growing the game' should be about improving tier 2 nations to a point where we can increase number of teams in RWC. Focus efforts on that goal rather than chasing Qatari coin for short term cash injection. If all our unions are so financially unstable, this feels like a huge gamble when a structural overhaul of the game is probably the better option.
Hey there Tim, first off all I have to say that as a blind person who uses the radio and some online sites to enjoy the sport I've loved for years, videos like these and all the other ones you do are invaluable to me, as it really helps to fill in the gaps in my awareness. In regards to this whole deal, honestly yeah let's be honest it is all about money, and there's no hidden agenda to change Qatar at all.
So is the calendar going to have 730 days now? This is killing all sports. Well said Tim, rugby needs to be protected against these goons and finally grown around the World.
I just hate what this is going to do to tier 2. As a Scotland fan you know what game I’m most excited for this November? It’s actually the Portugal game. I’ve seen Scotland play South Africa, Australia and Fiji loads of time but I’ve never seen them play Portugal and I can’t wait for it. This completely undermines the work that tier 2 nations have done to grow the game in their countries and the quality of their national teams. The amount of effort that has gone into creating pro rugby with the rugby Europe super cup, super rugby americas and the mlr all with the goal to try and get these nations to compete with the top dogs and instead of the tier 1 teams embracing them they’ve shut the door. It’s embarrassing. I’ll actually be more shocked if the second division of this competition has pro rel, like they said it would, than if it doesn’t. I don’t trust these unions at all to work in the best interests of rugby
O agree totally with you. I grew up with traditional tours which was all fantastic tours. The guys that were never going to be( for example, a Springbok) playing at the highest level, will be able to play for his province/club, against an international team. That will be the highlight of his career. And us fans get to know the international teams individual players, which adds to the excitement of a tour. Thanks Tim
Hello kidda im glad u enjoyed South Africa 🇿🇦 and thank you for coming over. Thank you for your kind words and presents. Your a good understanding man and South Africa 🇿🇦 will always welcome you
Thanks Tim - your logic and common sense and love of the game of rugby and your zest for life is very commendable. Your videos are very well put together and clearly your number of followers illustrate how appreciated your input is. Good Onya!👍💪🏉
In my humble opinion, I think it's far better in the long-term, to grow the game, money will follow the game. As you said it may take longer however, to leave out the Minoes is a No-No
This competition should be between the emerging nations and the top teams get an automatic entry into the WC and they also get to play 2 of the top tier countries
If the stated aim is to grow rugby where does this leave Georgia, Romania, Tonga, Samoa, etc? , it will certainly devalue the World Cup, and the Calander is already too full. Something has to go; will it end Lions tours?
Great vid Tim, do think you contradict yourself slightly though when talking about growing the game and then about the test matches. As box office as a 3rd SA vs IRE test would have been, that would have denied Portugal the chance to play a historic first test vs SA. Player welfare dictates we can't increase the calendar and have both of them, so which one would you rather?
100% agree with you Mr Eggchaser. I love that rugby is not football with the opposing fans being next to each other and having a pint with them before and even after the game. I understand money talks but as you said if you want to grow the game you need to think long term. Look at the most successful club teams (Toulouse/Leinster/Tigers (as a fan ;) ) they all think long term and the success is seen on the field and with their revenue/support.
Very well said, on all points, Tim. I suspect that the same people accusing rugby of not being inclusive enough, are the same people that claim that "fans" want the game speeded up, but are at the same time, happy with a 5 minute break in play to review potential dangerous play. Make that make sense.
Personally, I love the annual schedule the way it is. But do want to see more opportunities for the lower tier countries. Maybe a sort of Lions concept could be an interesting idea for some of those countries. Fiji, Tonga and Samoa combined team Argentina, Uruguay, Chile combined team Not what Portugal, Georgia, etc would do though
Love this kind of report on the business of Rugby. Also on the podcast, following the money and seeing how the countries adapt is part of the competition to be the best.
Ireland and France will need support from a southern hemisphere country, preferably South Africa as there is already relationships from the URC and Champions Cup. Those three then boycot this Nations League and said they would instead play one another in July and November as well as the likes of Georgia, Spain, Portugal, Uruguay, USA, Tonga, Samoa etc.
I always feel sorry for fans in some other sports who don't experience the joy of mixing with opposing fans, especialy after the game. In regard to the Nations Cup I feel that the money on offer will be far too tempting in the short run to affect the decisions which would benefit the game in the long term. Love the channel Tim always informed and unbiased
Thanks for talking about these topics Tim. I would say my experience of rugby in a few different EU countries has not always been as inclusive as your experience. It’s never everyone, but being outspoken about inclusivity, and removing hate speech, is something we in our (rugby) communities could always look to improve.
Countries will be forced to split squads for some matches and as a consequence build depth. Ireland for example can go full strength vs SA/NZ but can send a development biased squad to Fiji/Japan etc. Taking the same squad to all 3 trans-hemisphere matches will be brutal, travel-wise
When your channel first started, I had you in the same bucket as Squidge, but you have zero of the content of Squidge. You do however have ALL OF THE SUBSTANCE. Love your views and getting under the skin of things. Also...had no idea of the football nations cup, tx for the pub trivia 😂 Thank you for the top to bottom commentary on games, culture and administration...LOVE IT. 🇿🇦
If QATAR wanted to sponsor a rugby comp the fans would actually be interested in watching. Every 4 years, 2 years after the BIL tour, A North vs South BIL style tour with players from the the Six Nations vs players from the RC. 5 matches.
You said you love how your comments are all respectful, which is sometimes not the case but I'll attempt to not lower the tone. With the exception of Ireland and South Africa, none of the nations which Qatar wants to compete in this tournament, is even cordial with countries such as Qatar. I can't speak for South Africa but in Ireland our soft spot for Palestine which is largely based on how screwed over they have been by the rest of the world, does not extend to other countries of that culture. The majority of fans are already struggling to pay the cost of the tickets to their local Six Nations. Even for big games such as the NZ fixture in Ireland companies such as Cassidy Travel are getting and selling on tickets for four to five times the face value of the ticket. Now fans will be expected to shell out the same amount for a plane ticket alone. Going to a country where the inhabitants would be deemed as hostile in any other circumstances, where the rights of large portions of fans are not deemed as equals, at the cost of roughly double what is it now, is ridiculous. Football had to make this move as they pay unsustainable wages to their teams and players. Why are we following a model which will never work in rugby union.
Well said on all counts Tim, the game cannot afford to lose its roots, or for nefarious forces to be allowed to manipulate the playing field to suit their ulterior motives 🤘
Does anyone remember the fable about killing the golden goose? World Rugby is about to kill the game. There are too many games and the players are exhausted. For Boks fans, just look at the injury list. There are so many imjured players who are worn out from beating each other up for so many games. So instead of grubbing for every last dollar, we should stop and think about the long term health of the players and the good of the game
Rugby does not have a "huge financial problem". Some countries have a management problem and use their influence at World Rugby to destroy the sport for everyone.
They should use the emerging or A teams for this tournament to help give experience to up coming players and also allow out of form or injured players the opportunity to play first class rugby and regain form.
I couldn't agree more about the fans sitting together. I'm a geordie and one of my friends is from Leicester and neither of us live in our home towns. As Leicester is the nearest for both of us we would go and watch the Tigers play the Falcons and we always sat surrounded by Tiger fans. As I was always the only geordie the home crowd delighted in taunting me but it was done without malice or edge and with bags of humour. The repartee was fabulous and they were great fans and great afternoons. As for the quote about the future being in the past, I think that was spot on, the history is a massive part of the binding together of rugby playing countries, the players and the fans.
To me, to grow rugby, you have to grow the next level down and so on. The deeper it goes the more the top will grow if that makes sense. So, instead of the 12 Nations, maybe have a under 23 competition which would be all the "bubbling under" players who are not in the 1st teams of the nations which would include the teams like Georgia and Portugal etc. So the first team players would not be involved and their schedule impacted. I would be just as passionate about a Springbok under 23 side as the main side for example.
Saying rugby is Rasist, homophobic, etc is absurd. South Africa is a perfect example of how racism can be overcome with Rugby. Going from Apartheid, to a rainbow nation in 4 years, thanks to Madiba, and Francois Pienaar. If you look at the different races playing in different teams throughout the world, surely rugby can't be called racist. Then homophobic is a bit more difficult to address, however I have never been at a rugby club where people with different values and life styles were treated badly. At varsity we had gay and lesbian friends coming to the game to watch us play, and they were accepted with open hands. People who makes these statements clearly 1) knows nothing about rugby and the culture within each locker room, or 2) is looking to start a fire, where there is none.
A competition I am not keen but a one off test in the Middle East will be great. I am not keen on the exclusivity club. We have to mix it up and spread the game
Good Test tours are what makes rugby great. I think Ireland might do something as schedule NZ, Fiji, and AUS in one year, then SA, Japan, and ARG, the next year with the middle game being a development squad game to reduce the travel stress for front line players. I think IRE, FRA, SA, NZ, and ENG are the only nations which could do that. I also agree with if you take money, shut up about the woke lecturing that they engage in. If they do go to Qatar, then like cricket they will be playing in empty stadiums. Finally, I think this will absolutely kill the European club competitions, EPCR, etc., as surely teams will treat it with contempt like a lot of English/French teams do at the moment, especially for away games.
@stiofain88 South Africa situation is due to the inept government. Because eventually communism destroys everything. Otherwise, it would be flourishing.
@@coatknight I'm not trying to dismiss any of the other nations and their specific problems and challenges. I just said the OP is incorrect. The SA teams addition to the URC has worked successfully and injected more cash into SA but we can't stop your politicians from misusing those funds as it's not our place and it would be taken as hostile rather than helpful. The main thing which will help SA is when we can get flight routes established with only one layover for fuel, probably in the south of Spain, for as little money as possible. Ideally SA teams should only be playing on a Saturday to allow fans the time to actually get there and ideally in the late afternoon. If you're playing other SA teams then have the games on a Friday or Sunday so we have something interesting to watch. No matter what league SA play in these problems would occur as the geography is just awkward but at the very least we're in the same time zone so it's not as difficult as ye flying to the other side of the world. Once the English teams and the Prem go bankrupt and have no other choice than to join the URC as individual members, probably within the next three years, my guess is two SA teams will remain in the top tier and two will drop down to a second URC tier (which will still be profitable and competitive) making the travel less of a problem as it will be spread more evenly.
College old boy Pietermaritzburg SA we need to keep the game in the places where its going to benefit from and USA and Canada is where need to grow the game where people understand the game
Seems inappropriate to take rugby - with such strong values and spirit - to a morally bankrupt country, without any great history of success or passion for the game, under a regime motivated by $$ and greed. And then go to Qatar.
I DO AGREE I THINK WE NEED TO GO BACK TO HAVING TOURS TO COUNTRY LIKE BEST OF 3 AGAINST ENGLAND AND SA AB AUS I WOULD RATHE HAVE FINAL IN USA AND GROW THE GAME THERE..
Why the hell must the final be held in England ? Didn't South Africa win the last 2 WCs, despite being bitten in the arse by France and their comrades at the last WC bid ? The Final should obviously be held in South Africa while they are the World Champions until England one day wins it, then they can earn the right. Failing that, all the Southern Hemisphere sides should just field their young players, not their main team, and call it the XV team - in fact, perhaps this would be a good idea for all 1st tier teams, and 2nd tier teams can field their top teams - now THAT will be a win-win !
I agree, even for the argument of making money. Rather widen the net to countries where rugby is emerging than trying to milk the cow dry in countries where rugby is already well established.
How can you say we're not growing the game when in July we played USA, Canada, Chile and Uruguay!! We're the ONLY home nation that did that so I would say that's supporting "smaller nations"!
Let's not beat around the bush. What you said is 100% true. It's about money. Literally what they call pay to win in games. Take your money and shove it.
100% agree. Rugby is very inclusive sport. I did my coaching license in US and 90% of the class ran by world and US rugby was about inclusivity and pronounce, not about rugby. To me everyone is welcome, just focus on rugby not the gender stuff. All i want to know if kid can you pass and tackle.
How about this: English Saxons, Irish wolfhounds etc, enter the Rugby Europe Championship that Georgia, Romania and Spain usually win. That would be a good, entertaining and useful competition for all involved.
Take the money but field second string teams, it'll give them some touring experience. Send the first teams to play second/third tier nations and obviously the world cup.
The Nations League in football has helped remove a problem rugby doesn’t have, friendly games. As an Irish football supporter, I’m glad not to play Oman countless times. It also acts as an alternative for qualifying to European Championships. You also get rewarded for doing well with promotion and then playing bigger nations. None of these things seem to be done with the Rugby version here. I think it would be a big mistake to take the autumn tours away from the fans and doesn’t help the players whatsoever. Just like in football, rugby is going to further isolate supporters who don’t have the money go to games anyway. It’s already €120 for a 6Nations ticket in Lansdowne Road(which is a joke imo), plus money it costs if you want to go the RWC(travel and tickets). Now they want to put games in a place with no connection to the game and a horrible current human rights record? What a joke.
An interesting point! Yeah, if it was part of a bigger picture, more joined up, that might make sense. *apparently promotion/relegation will become a thing in the future. IF that happens I can tolerate this moreso, as long as the money gets filtered fairly to all nations. Forgive me if I want to see this before I believe it though
@@EggchasersRugbyoh I 100% agree, my point with the football comparison was that it needed to happen in football to get rid of pointless games. Rugby has a problem of cash flow and bringing small teams up. I think integrating the like of the Rugby Europe Championship(which I love) to the bigger tournaments could possibly do a better job. World Rugby’s plan also does nothing for the club/international fixture congestion.
I would rather let there be a small 2 weekend Qatar tournament based on the current world rankings. This could give merit and possibly streamline the world rankings. which is currently receiving alot of criticism and is quite farsical in some cases.
Very penetrating analysis, Tim, and yet again you are “right on the money”, - pun fully intended!! The Qatar facade is a nonsense, given their pathetic world human rights ranking. And yes please, no more anti-rugby whingeing as to homophobia, danger etc.
I personally don't have an issue with sports heading to new terriroties, especially when they need the financial support. BUT, the problem rugby has is that it can't both champion it's virtues and also conveniently ignore them when someone comes along with a bag of cash. I'd almost rather they just wash away the virtue signalling, market the game for the physical, aggressive contact sport it is and embrace the chaos and attitude which comes alongside all of that. Trying to tread this line between being a game for gentlemen and the refined whilst being the complete opposite on the pitch clearly is not a strategy which appeals to modern young audiences.
FIFA lost what credibility it had left by hosting the WC in Qatar. Seem like the World Rugby is chasing that money too. Sad. Much love from your second home, South Africa Tim!
Thanks for clarifying what this actually looks like. Cant say i can hop on the outraged train like everybody else. So basically, We do our 6n campaign We play 3 tests in the southern hemisphere like we did before in 2022 - albeit, spread out between countries The rc does their job And then its 4 home games against the southern hemisphere just like whats happening...next month? Besides, as you say, the travel inconveniences of july, how is this different to what we normally do? Except theres a cup at the end. Not fussed. I do, however, think rugby in Qatar is really asking for it. Still think that world cup was one of the most bizarre things ive ever seen in sports. It reeked of money and agenda, more so than usual. Im glad im not a football fan because that documentary on netflix would disgust even the most hardcore of followers. Cant see people hopping on a plane to Qatar for this. Maybe theyre trying to make use of all those super stadiums they built? I think it will grow the sport whether we like it or not. Neutrals historically love competitions.
Hi Tim, you 100% right, and man that chop saying we must tackle "heavy drinking and Laddish Behavior" my word ..look at football(soccer) you cant sit together or even go into the same Pub, you will be assaulted....wow World rugby is on a money grab...the problem is it wont grow the game, the big unions will get richer, it will be like cricket, also less is more.. as the saying goes...love you channel..from South Africa
Bang on there Tim, to the extent homophobia does exist within rugby, it's a very small issue, and nothing close to how terrible it is in Qatar who will be bankrolling us now.
If you explained it and I missed it, I apologise. But I would like to know how that £800 million is shared between the nations and over what period? This could lead onto a lot more talking points, depending. Would, for example, it allow the RFU to put a squad on Central contracts? And so on.. 👍
Well said! Especially on the hypocrisy aspect of WR! Why not have a World Cup for the lower tier nations where the top 3 automatically get into the Tier One Nation World Cup 2-3 yrs later (depending on when its hosted). Host that in those lower tier countries and it will help develop the sport. RWC is prize NO 1 and should always be. I do think there is way too much rugby and the teams in the suggested structure, will need way deeper depth and thus the teams with more money will simply buy 50 players and it will polarize the competition (have vs have not). The same teams will win every time. World Rugby needs a new approach and think a differently as chasing America isnt the answer. They do not care for the sport at all. It was the biggest sport not more than a 100 yrs ago but they purposely changed it! They want to be different. They feel the same about cricket! The last world cup was played in NY and i am yet to see stats that show increase in players (by that i mean non-foreign players). Bring back the old tours and create a huge incentive for lower tier nations, where the game is played, to develop! And stop comparing Rugby to soccer!
Quick thoughts between meetings. Those teams that want to build depth would send their emerging stars to this. Those without depth (developing nations)could have more of an even playing field BUT they have been excluded. So the top tier teams would need to rest some of their players and build for the world cup. With all the rugby being played the players will need rotation PLUS the 6 Nations Plus the southern hemispheres 4 nations this seems to be a get out of debt card type tournament. Qatar would not attract enough spectator base to fill the stadiums unless they are from the Northern hemisphere where currencies are stronger. Viewing rights will be one thing. But does this not devalue the World cup and/or Tours as they stand. So many issues but really the player pool would have to grow in order nit to overplay the front line players.
We have have already seen clubs sending B teams to the north and south. Will just be a B team tournament. With club officials and union reps on a jolly.
I find it illuminating that something like this, which clearly divides opinion, manages to come to the vote so quickly, whereas the global season, which will unlock so much potential for growth, tours, and longevity of players, never seems to make it to the floor. World Rugby is not doing anything to help the game of rugby develop, they are merely being lead from one misadventure to the next by the scent of money. For example, where is Argentina's World Cup? They have made it to the quarters twice and the semi's on three occasions, and yet the 2031 world cup will be hosted by the USA? A nation which only qualified for eight of the ten World Cup tournaments and has only managed to win three of their twenty six matches. I would argue that a South American host for the World Cup would do more to grow the game than pandering to the US market that is already saturated by Football, Baseball and Basketball.
Par for the course, WR screwing tier 2 nations. The only way to grow the game is give everyone a vote! Democratise rugby, 1 country, 1 vote! #billbeaumontmustgo
Tim please find the documentary on youtube By The Balls about the 1987 World Cup for the All Blacks. Would love to hear you review it if you deem it interesting
World rugby must look at club and national level. One can't survive without the other. World rugby needs to make a international window where the Six Nations and Rugby Championship is played at the same time. Then one more window where we have tours. The Rugby Championship should include Fiji and Japan. They should play the same format as the Six Nations, single round games. The two comps will take seven weeks. A second international window of seven weeks for tours can be done. You have a six weeks brake for players. It will leave the club leagues with 32 weeks to run their programs. It is also time to look at Monday night games. In South Africa we have the Varisty Cup league for the Universities and they are very well supported with easily 10000 spectators. Everybody can be accomdated if world rugby will stop hunting the short term money and start planing for long term sustainabilty.
'growing the game' should be about improving tier 2 nations to a point where we can increase number of teams in RWC. Focus efforts on that goal rather than chasing Qatari coin for short term cash injection. If all our unions are so financially unstable, this feels like a huge gamble when a structural overhaul of the game is probably the better option.
Thank you for always keeping up with the ugly side of rugby so that you can explain to us. Fry the money grabbers!!! From South Africa 🇿🇦
Thanks for watching
Dankie Tim
Hey there Tim, first off all I have to say that as a blind person who uses the radio and some online sites to enjoy the sport I've loved for years, videos like these and all the other ones you do are invaluable to me, as it really helps to fill in the gaps in my awareness.
In regards to this whole deal, honestly yeah let's be honest it is all about money, and there's no hidden agenda to change Qatar at all.
This is the reason why rugby is suffering, these deals being made by bunch of dinosaurs at world rugby. What a shocker
I believe you’ve hit the nail on the head. Growing the game should be the priority, too many short minded people making these decisions big decisions
So is the calendar going to have 730 days now? This is killing all sports. Well said Tim, rugby needs to be protected against these goons and finally grown around the World.
You said it Tim - human rights - follow the money
I just hate what this is going to do to tier 2. As a Scotland fan you know what game I’m most excited for this November? It’s actually the Portugal game. I’ve seen Scotland play South Africa, Australia and Fiji loads of time but I’ve never seen them play Portugal and I can’t wait for it. This completely undermines the work that tier 2 nations have done to grow the game in their countries and the quality of their national teams. The amount of effort that has gone into creating pro rugby with the rugby Europe super cup, super rugby americas and the mlr all with the goal to try and get these nations to compete with the top dogs and instead of the tier 1 teams embracing them they’ve shut the door. It’s embarrassing. I’ll actually be more shocked if the second division of this competition has pro rel, like they said it would, than if it doesn’t. I don’t trust these unions at all to work in the best interests of rugby
Greed destroyed SuperRugby.
Less is more.
It's a short comp
Completely agree. Personally I don't like anything about this tournament
Think you've hit the nail on the head there Tim, and said it far better than I would have. Hope France and Ireland hang on in there
We all love watching big games but my goodness!!! It is a full program! Somehow it will inevitably take it's toll on the players
As a side note to my previous comment, I think Tim should apply for the role as head of World Rugby. He will definitely have my vote 🗳 ❤
You have a vote?
O agree totally with you. I grew up with traditional tours which was all fantastic tours. The guys that were never going to be( for example, a Springbok) playing at the highest level, will be able to play for his province/club, against an international team. That will be the highlight of his career. And us fans get to know the international teams individual players, which adds to the excitement of a tour. Thanks Tim
Hello kidda im glad u enjoyed South Africa 🇿🇦 and thank you for coming over. Thank you for your kind words and presents. Your a good understanding man and South Africa 🇿🇦 will always welcome you
Thanks Tim - your logic and common sense and love of the game of rugby and your zest for life is very commendable.
Your videos are very well put together and clearly your number of followers illustrate how appreciated your input is.
Good Onya!👍💪🏉
In my humble opinion, I think it's far better in the long-term, to grow the game, money will follow the game. As you said it may take longer however, to leave out the Minoes is a No-No
This competition should be between the emerging nations and the top teams get an automatic entry into the WC and they also get to play 2 of the top tier countries
If the stated aim is to grow rugby where does this leave Georgia, Romania, Tonga, Samoa, etc? , it will certainly devalue the World Cup, and the Calander is already too full. Something has to go; will it end Lions tours?
Great vid Tim, do think you contradict yourself slightly though when talking about growing the game and then about the test matches. As box office as a 3rd SA vs IRE test would have been, that would have denied Portugal the chance to play a historic first test vs SA. Player welfare dictates we can't increase the calendar and have both of them, so which one would you rather?
100% agree with you Mr Eggchaser. I love that rugby is not football with the opposing fans being next to each other and having a pint with them before and even after the game. I understand money talks but as you said if you want to grow the game you need to think long term. Look at the most successful club teams (Toulouse/Leinster/Tigers (as a fan ;) ) they all think long term and the success is seen on the field and with their revenue/support.
Very well said, on all points, Tim. I suspect that the same people accusing rugby of not being inclusive enough, are the same people that claim that "fans" want the game speeded up, but are at the same time, happy with a 5 minute break in play to review potential dangerous play. Make that make sense.
I never even thought about going to a stadium and not sitting with opposing fans, it's actually pretty awesome when you really think about it:)
Too many games will lead to many more injuries and a dilution of quality. This on top of all the Club games is absolutely ridiculous!
Personally, I love the annual schedule the way it is.
But do want to see more opportunities for the lower tier countries.
Maybe a sort of Lions concept could be an interesting idea for some of those countries.
Fiji, Tonga and Samoa combined team
Argentina, Uruguay, Chile combined team
Not what Portugal, Georgia, etc would do though
Love this kind of report on the business of Rugby. Also on the podcast, following the money and seeing how the countries adapt is part of the competition to be the best.
Ireland and France will need support from a southern hemisphere country, preferably South Africa as there is already relationships from the URC and Champions Cup.
Those three then boycot this Nations League and said they would instead play one another in July and November as well as the likes of Georgia, Spain, Portugal, Uruguay, USA, Tonga, Samoa etc.
@Comerford1986 might happen ireland have put a statement they are against the 20-minute red card.
I always feel sorry for fans in some other sports who don't experience the joy of mixing with opposing fans, especialy after the game. In regard to the Nations Cup I feel that the money on offer will be far
too tempting in the short run to affect the decisions which would benefit the game in the long term. Love the channel Tim always informed and unbiased
Since people are locked up in England for social media posts, we need to talk about human rights.
Thanks for talking about these topics Tim. I would say my experience of rugby in a few different EU countries has not always been as inclusive as your experience. It’s never everyone, but being outspoken about inclusivity, and removing hate speech, is something we in our (rugby) communities could always look to improve.
Great channel. Thanks for all the research and hard work.
Countries will be forced to split squads for some matches and as a consequence build depth. Ireland for example can go full strength vs SA/NZ but can send a development biased squad to Fiji/Japan etc. Taking the same squad to all 3 trans-hemisphere matches will be brutal, travel-wise
When your channel first started, I had you in the same bucket as Squidge, but you have zero of the content of Squidge. You do however have ALL OF THE SUBSTANCE. Love your views and getting under the skin of things. Also...had no idea of the football nations cup, tx for the pub trivia 😂 Thank you for the top to bottom commentary on games, culture and administration...LOVE IT. 🇿🇦
If QATAR wanted to sponsor a rugby comp the fans would actually be interested in watching. Every 4 years, 2 years after the BIL tour, A North vs South BIL style tour with players from the the Six Nations vs players from the RC. 5 matches.
You said you love how your comments are all respectful, which is sometimes not the case but I'll attempt to not lower the tone. With the exception of Ireland and South Africa, none of the nations which Qatar wants to compete in this tournament, is even cordial with countries such as Qatar. I can't speak for South Africa but in Ireland our soft spot for Palestine which is largely based on how screwed over they have been by the rest of the world, does not extend to other countries of that culture. The majority of fans are already struggling to pay the cost of the tickets to their local Six Nations. Even for big games such as the NZ fixture in Ireland companies such as Cassidy Travel are getting and selling on tickets for four to five times the face value of the ticket. Now fans will be expected to shell out the same amount for a plane ticket alone. Going to a country where the inhabitants would be deemed as hostile in any other circumstances, where the rights of large portions of fans are not deemed as equals, at the cost of roughly double what is it now, is ridiculous. Football had to make this move as they pay unsustainable wages to their teams and players. Why are we following a model which will never work in rugby union.
Well said on all counts Tim, the game cannot afford to lose its roots, or for nefarious forces to be allowed to manipulate the playing field to suit their ulterior motives 🤘
A very long way of not getting to a final of South Africa v New Zealand with plenty of money being cleaned along the way
Does anyone remember the fable about killing the golden goose? World Rugby is about to kill the game. There are too many games and the players are exhausted. For Boks fans, just look at the injury list. There are so many imjured players who are worn out from beating each other up for so many games. So instead of grubbing for every last dollar, we should stop and think about the long term health of the players and the good of the game
They should let one southern hemisphere country host a 3 week tour, rotating every time
If we don't watch it, it won't work. So lets keep rugby as it is and sort out our gardens while they play this thing.
Rugby has a huge financial problem. I do not believe this is the answer.
Rugby does not have a "huge financial problem". Some countries have a management problem and use their influence at World Rugby to destroy the sport for everyone.
They should use the emerging or A teams for this tournament to help give experience to up coming players and also allow out of form or injured players the opportunity to play first class rugby and regain form.
I think that is exactly what will happen, evidenced by Rassie building depth and France sending a second team to NZ
Thanks for a great podcast Tim. Who TF gives it a thumbs down?? Maybe you have followers in Qatar!
I think the nations will send their B teams to this rugby nation
I couldn't agree more about the fans sitting together. I'm a geordie and one of my friends is from Leicester and neither of us live in our home towns. As Leicester is the nearest for both of us we would go and watch the Tigers play the Falcons and we always sat surrounded by Tiger fans. As I was always the only geordie the home crowd delighted in taunting me but it was done without malice or edge and with bags of humour. The repartee was fabulous and they were great fans and great afternoons.
As for the quote about the future being in the past, I think that was spot on, the history is a massive part of the binding together of rugby playing countries, the players and the fans.
To me, to grow rugby, you have to grow the next level down and so on. The deeper it goes the more the top will grow if that makes sense. So, instead of the 12 Nations, maybe have a under 23 competition which would be all the "bubbling under" players who are not in the 1st teams of the nations which would include the teams like Georgia and Portugal etc. So the first team players would not be involved and their schedule impacted. I would be just as passionate about a Springbok under 23 side as the main side for example.
Saying rugby is Rasist, homophobic, etc is absurd. South Africa is a perfect example of how racism can be overcome with Rugby. Going from Apartheid, to a rainbow nation in 4 years, thanks to Madiba, and Francois Pienaar. If you look at the different races playing in different teams throughout the world, surely rugby can't be called racist.
Then homophobic is a bit more difficult to address, however I have never been at a rugby club where people with different values and life styles were treated badly. At varsity we had gay and lesbian friends coming to the game to watch us play, and they were accepted with open hands.
People who makes these statements clearly 1) knows nothing about rugby and the culture within each locker room, or 2) is looking to start a fire, where there is none.
I see UA-cam is removing comments again.
Australia, New Zealand missed up,SA rugby union don't sell the family silver
Good stuff Tim
its needed will create interest
Huge well done Tim for pointing out the moral component, including Quatars poor human rights record.
A competition I am not keen but a one off test in the Middle East will be great. I am not keen on the exclusivity club. We have to mix it up and spread the game
Good Test tours are what makes rugby great.
I think Ireland might do something as schedule NZ, Fiji, and AUS in one year, then SA, Japan, and ARG, the next year with the middle game being a development squad game to reduce the travel stress for front line players.
I think IRE, FRA, SA, NZ, and ENG are the only nations which could do that.
I also agree with if you take money, shut up about the woke lecturing that they engage in.
If they do go to Qatar, then like cricket they will be playing in empty stadiums.
Finally, I think this will absolutely kill the European club competitions, EPCR, etc., as surely teams will treat it with contempt like a lot of English/French teams do at the moment, especially for away games.
Fact is all these Rugby playing Nations are Bankrupt, let alone their Rugby Clubs. A very interesting summary of this development though. Thanks.
Ireland isn't. Neither is France. And it shouldn't take either of us to point out what you're doing wrong.
@stiofain88 South Africa situation is due to the inept government. Because eventually communism destroys everything.
Otherwise, it would be flourishing.
@@coatknight I'm not trying to dismiss any of the other nations and their specific problems and challenges. I just said the OP is incorrect. The SA teams addition to the URC has worked successfully and injected more cash into SA but we can't stop your politicians from misusing those funds as it's not our place and it would be taken as hostile rather than helpful. The main thing which will help SA is when we can get flight routes established with only one layover for fuel, probably in the south of Spain, for as little money as possible. Ideally SA teams should only be playing on a Saturday to allow fans the time to actually get there and ideally in the late afternoon. If you're playing other SA teams then have the games on a Friday or Sunday so we have something interesting to watch. No matter what league SA play in these problems would occur as the geography is just awkward but at the very least we're in the same time zone so it's not as difficult as ye flying to the other side of the world. Once the English teams and the Prem go bankrupt and have no other choice than to join the URC as individual members, probably within the next three years, my guess is two SA teams will remain in the top tier and two will drop down to a second URC tier (which will still be profitable and competitive) making the travel less of a problem as it will be spread more evenly.
Spot on Tim 🏉
Love your open mind Tim
The best rugby channel🤙
College old boy Pietermaritzburg SA we need to keep the game in the places where its going to benefit from and USA and Canada is where need to grow the game where people understand the game
Growing the game is crucial, this will likely turn out like the Autumn series cup or whatever that was.
Anything Qatar can’t be good 🥺
Great airlines.
It gets boring when only top 3 cricket nations play each other
Another way the game is growing, noticing it in SA, is the women's division. Which I agree would never have a chance in Qatar.
Best video you've done mate
Seems inappropriate to take rugby - with such strong values and spirit - to a morally bankrupt country, without any great history of success or passion for the game, under a regime motivated by $$ and greed.
And then go to Qatar.
hahahaha. Very good
😂😂😂
Zinger!
I DO AGREE I THINK WE NEED TO GO BACK TO HAVING TOURS TO COUNTRY LIKE BEST OF 3 AGAINST ENGLAND AND SA AB AUS I WOULD RATHE HAVE FINAL IN USA AND GROW THE GAME THERE..
A bit like the deals that the Premier ship got sold down the river no better off
Why the hell must the final be held in England ? Didn't South Africa win the last 2 WCs, despite being bitten in the arse by France and their comrades at the last WC bid ? The Final should obviously be held in South Africa while they are the World Champions until England one day wins it, then they can earn the right.
Failing that, all the Southern Hemisphere sides should just field their young players, not their main team, and call it the XV team - in fact, perhaps this would be a good idea for all 1st tier teams, and 2nd tier teams can field their top teams - now THAT will be a win-win !
I know it was just an example, but when you had the NZ v Ireland final, I was heart broken...but then you said 2nd.
Good looking out 🫡
I apologize for my language. I know this is a safe space...but fuck Ugo Monye and his pompous attitude...just wanted to add that to my comment
I agree, even for the argument of making money.
Rather widen the net to countries where rugby is emerging than trying to milk the cow dry in countries where rugby is already well established.
How can you say we're not growing the game when in July we played USA, Canada, Chile and Uruguay!! We're the ONLY home nation that did that so I would say that's supporting "smaller nations"!
Let's not beat around the bush. What you said is 100% true. It's about money. Literally what they call pay to win in games. Take your money and shove it.
100% agree. Rugby is very inclusive sport. I did my coaching license in US and 90% of the class ran by world and US rugby was about inclusivity and pronounce, not about rugby. To me everyone is welcome, just focus on rugby not the gender stuff. All i want to know if kid can you pass and tackle.
How about this: English Saxons, Irish wolfhounds etc, enter the Rugby Europe Championship that Georgia, Romania and Spain usually win. That would be a good, entertaining and useful competition for all involved.
Take the money but field second string teams, it'll give them some touring experience. Send the first teams to play second/third tier nations and obviously the world cup.
100% in agreement Tim!
The Nations League in football has helped remove a problem rugby doesn’t have, friendly games. As an Irish football supporter, I’m glad not to play Oman countless times. It also acts as an alternative for qualifying to European Championships. You also get rewarded for doing well with promotion and then playing bigger nations. None of these things seem to be done with the Rugby version here.
I think it would be a big mistake to take the autumn tours away from the fans and doesn’t help the players whatsoever. Just like in football, rugby is going to further isolate supporters who don’t have the money go to games anyway. It’s already €120 for a 6Nations ticket in Lansdowne Road(which is a joke imo), plus money it costs if you want to go the RWC(travel and tickets). Now they want to put games in a place with no connection to the game and a horrible current human rights record? What a joke.
An interesting point! Yeah, if it was part of a bigger picture, more joined up, that might make sense. *apparently promotion/relegation will become a thing in the future. IF that happens I can tolerate this moreso, as long as the money gets filtered fairly to all nations. Forgive me if I want to see this before I believe it though
@@EggchasersRugbyoh I 100% agree, my point with the football comparison was that it needed to happen in football to get rid of pointless games. Rugby has a problem of cash flow and bringing small teams up.
I think integrating the like of the Rugby Europe Championship(which I love) to the bigger tournaments could possibly do a better job.
World Rugby’s plan also does nothing for the club/international fixture congestion.
I would rather let there be a small 2 weekend Qatar tournament based on the current world rankings. This could give merit and possibly streamline the world rankings. which is currently receiving alot of criticism and is quite farsical in some cases.
Very penetrating analysis, Tim, and yet again you are “right on the money”, - pun fully intended!! The Qatar facade is a nonsense, given their pathetic world human rights ranking. And yes please, no more anti-rugby whingeing as to homophobia, danger etc.
New Zealand's tour of South Africa is set for 2026. When is this thing set to take place? This is just a cash grab that's not going to end well.
I'll be far more interested in the NZ-SA tour in 2026, 100%
😂
I personally don't have an issue with sports heading to new terriroties, especially when they need the financial support. BUT, the problem rugby has is that it can't both champion it's virtues and also conveniently ignore them when someone comes along with a bag of cash. I'd almost rather they just wash away the virtue signalling, market the game for the physical, aggressive contact sport it is and embrace the chaos and attitude which comes alongside all of that. Trying to tread this line between being a game for gentlemen and the refined whilst being the complete opposite on the pitch clearly is not a strategy which appeals to modern young audiences.
100%. Hard agree!
I flew Qatar Airways recently to S Hemisphere and home to England recently. They were bloody good.
Same, I flew from Dublin to Qatar and on to South Korea. I found them outstanding.
FIFA lost what credibility it had left by hosting the WC in Qatar. Seem like the World Rugby is chasing that money too. Sad. Much love from your second home, South Africa Tim!
Hi Tim, My vote would be NO!, If it goes ahead, I can see the top nations sending 'B' teams. otherwise, it would just kill club rugby
Thanks for clarifying what this actually looks like. Cant say i can hop on the outraged train like everybody else.
So basically,
We do our 6n campaign
We play 3 tests in the southern hemisphere like we did before in 2022 - albeit, spread out between countries
The rc does their job
And then its 4 home games against the southern hemisphere just like whats happening...next month?
Besides, as you say, the travel inconveniences of july, how is this different to what we normally do? Except theres a cup at the end.
Not fussed. I do, however, think rugby in Qatar is really asking for it. Still think that world cup was one of the most bizarre things ive ever seen in sports. It reeked of money and agenda, more so than usual. Im glad im not a football fan because that documentary on netflix would disgust even the most hardcore of followers.
Cant see people hopping on a plane to Qatar for this. Maybe theyre trying to make use of all those super stadiums they built?
I think it will grow the sport whether we like it or not. Neutrals historically love competitions.
Hi Tim, you 100% right, and man that chop saying we must tackle "heavy drinking and Laddish Behavior" my word ..look at football(soccer) you cant sit together or even go into the same Pub, you will be assaulted....wow World rugby is on a money grab...the problem is it wont grow the game, the big unions will get richer, it will be like cricket, also less is more.. as the saying goes...love you channel..from South Africa
Wasn’t there resistance to the RWC 1987? Let’s grow this great game.
Well played Tim
Bang on there Tim, to the extent homophobia does exist within rugby, it's a very small issue, and nothing close to how terrible it is in Qatar who will be bankrolling us now.
If you explained it and I missed it, I apologise.
But I would like to know how that £800 million is shared between the nations and over what period?
This could lead onto a lot more talking points, depending. Would, for example, it allow the RFU to put a squad on Central contracts?
And so on..
👍
Well said! Especially on the hypocrisy aspect of WR!
Why not have a World Cup for the lower tier nations where the top 3 automatically get into the Tier One Nation World Cup 2-3 yrs later (depending on when its hosted). Host that in those lower tier countries and it will help develop the sport.
RWC is prize NO 1 and should always be.
I do think there is way too much rugby and the teams in the suggested structure, will need way deeper depth and thus the teams with more money will simply buy 50 players and it will polarize the competition (have vs have not). The same teams will win every time.
World Rugby needs a new approach and think a differently as chasing America isnt the answer. They do not care for the sport at all. It was the biggest sport not more than a 100 yrs ago but they purposely changed it! They want to be different. They feel the same about cricket! The last world cup was played in NY and i am yet to see stats that show increase in players (by that i mean non-foreign players).
Bring back the old tours and create a huge incentive for lower tier nations, where the game is played, to develop!
And stop comparing Rugby to soccer!
The British State has a good “Human Rights” Record? 🤣🤣🤣🤣 Mmmmm! 🏴🏴🏴 As an Englishman I do not think so!
Travel much?
Quick thoughts between meetings. Those teams that want to build depth would send their emerging stars to this. Those without depth (developing nations)could have more of an even playing field BUT they have been excluded. So the top tier teams would need to rest some of their players and build for the world cup. With all the rugby being played the players will need rotation PLUS the 6 Nations Plus the southern hemispheres 4 nations this seems to be a get out of debt card type tournament. Qatar would not attract enough spectator base to fill the stadiums unless they are from the Northern hemisphere where currencies are stronger. Viewing rights will be one thing. But does this not devalue the World cup and/or Tours as they stand. So many issues but really the player pool would have to grow in order nit to overplay the front line players.
We have have already seen clubs sending B teams to the north and south. Will just be a B team tournament. With club officials and union reps on a jolly.
I find it illuminating that something like this, which clearly divides opinion, manages to come to the vote so quickly, whereas the global season, which will unlock so much potential for growth, tours, and longevity of players, never seems to make it to the floor.
World Rugby is not doing anything to help the game of rugby develop, they are merely being lead from one misadventure to the next by the scent of money. For example, where is Argentina's World Cup? They have made it to the quarters twice and the semi's on three occasions, and yet the 2031 world cup will be hosted by the USA? A nation which only qualified for eight of the ten World Cup tournaments and has only managed to win three of their twenty six matches.
I would argue that a South American host for the World Cup would do more to grow the game than pandering to the US market that is already saturated by Football, Baseball and Basketball.
No word from management on how the players will be paid for all these extra games considering the major additional injury risk?
Par for the course, WR screwing tier 2 nations. The only way to grow the game is give everyone a vote!
Democratise rugby, 1 country, 1 vote!
#billbeaumontmustgo
Tim please find the documentary on youtube By The Balls about the 1987 World Cup for the All Blacks. Would love to hear you review it if you deem it interesting
World rugby must look at club and national level. One can't survive without the other.
World rugby needs to make a international window where the Six Nations and Rugby Championship is played at the same time. Then one more window where we have tours.
The Rugby Championship should include Fiji and Japan. They should play the same format as the Six Nations, single round games.
The two comps will take seven weeks. A second international window of seven weeks for tours can be done. You have a six weeks brake for players. It will leave the club leagues with 32 weeks to run their programs.
It is also time to look at Monday night games. In South Africa we have the Varisty Cup league for the Universities and they are very well supported with easily 10000 spectators.
Everybody can be accomdated if world rugby will stop hunting the short term money and start planing for long term sustainabilty.
I think this is great for rugby but some money needs to come to tier 2 nations
works for me, more rugby with sometging on the games v pointless test matches. lets go