There is a BIG reason antibiotic and pain killers are last resort, this is because the more used in general of antibiotics the more resistant antibiotics bacteria develops to the point our antibiotics will stop working, as a nurse you should know this. Also much painkillers drugs are very addicted so you can end up become drug addicted. Never take drugs unless you really need.
Yes of course I know this. In fact, I was a prescriber in the USA. The point I am making is we should use good stewardship when prescribing. Antibiotic and pain medicine withholding is not the answer either. A balanced approach is needed. Note this quote from a study "On the other hand, withholding antibiotics might potentially carry risks and reduced antibiotic prescribing in general practice is associated with a small increase in complications such as treatable pneumonia and peritonsillar abscess (National Library of Medicine, 2020)." There are many other such references that point out that the answer to dealing with antibiotic resistance is not so simple. There is a lot of nuance to this problem. I saw another study done in the Netherlands that showed worsening of dementia symptoms of patients that did not receive antibiotic treatment compared to those that received treatment. The issue is more complex than just not giving or giving antibiotics. I have been on antibiotics now for 6 weeks which has increased my risk for complications and resistance to antibiotics which could have been reduced by a prophylactic treatment of a few days. I may now have long term damage to my jaw due to the inflammation I got, I missed many days of work, used a lot of resources that could have gone to help other people, ect. I work in a department here in Sweden that is NOT afraid of prescribing antibiotics for those who need it but the physicians I work with are extremely competent and confident. I can say for a fact that they are excellent stewards of pain management and antibiotic prescribing. I myself am reluctant to take antibiotics but I know when it is necessary. I have had more people coming out of the wood work lately in Sweden that I know personally who have had similar issues from getting similar procedures performed on them in Sweden which is in stark contrast to the mostly good anecdotal reports I am hearing from acquaintances who had their wisdom teeth removed in the USA. The problem is we had for years had prescriptions written for things that were viral rather than bacterial as well as the fact that patients would stop taking the antibiotics because they felt better even though they had not completed the prescribed regimen. This definitely needed to be addressed but I fear the pendulum has swung too far the other way.
In sweden we don't have a big problem with antibiotic resistance, but there is a reason for it, in countries with more open views on antibiotics there are also bigger issues with resistance and I have seen what the result of that can be so I have mixed feelings about our stance but it is aimed for what is best for the community and there is a fine line to walk
I have a friend from the Pakistani elite (his dad was leading their creation of their nuclear weapons). He lives here in Sweden and is highly educated. He often makes outrageous claims about Pakistani mentality and science. The surprising thing is that I thought he was a fool but learned that he was a smart guy with shitty information. He said that he got a shot every year. This was some type of peneceline that was supposed to kill everything bad that he had in his body. I told him that no such drug existed and did my best to find evidence for my claim. I quickly learned that it does exist. In Sweden it is used if your bowels burst or if you get an injury that is likely to kill you because of the massive amount of bacteria added to your system. In Pakistan they give this stuff to everyone that is rich/important or the offspring of such a person. My reality isn't the same as theirs. Everyone have a perfect hindsight but everything actually comes from statistics. Learn honest statistics to understand the problem.
and thats a problem, dosctors do not take into account - diets (very antibiotic reach food, even if it is different antibiotic) and foreigners. Basiclaly foreigners are treated wrongly in Scandivania - the doctors do no care they can bring different types of diseases or be ready exposed to some antibiotics. I remember being prescribed drug that was withdrawn 20 years ago I an country where I got sick...
Swedens stance on antibiotics causes people who for one or another reason do not want or have the possibility to go to the doctor to not get any help, its like they live in a time before the invention of these medicines. That is how I have seen this subject play out in real life. In many instances Swedish society threat its citizen like little children.
Hmm... I'm from Finland, and while we don't issue antibiotics that much. Probably in case of something like this, I would 100% except some, I had root sawed off as part of root canal operation that was infected, it was small surgery, and I definitely got some antibiotics. And actually the infection was pretty much gone after root canals that were done before actual surgery. So really those antibiotics were for the surgery. Honestly antibiotic resistance is mostly coming from farming and very excessive use in some non western countries anyways. I don't think it should be issue at all if you are issued few antibiotics after surgery.
@@mukkaar like I said I do have mixed feelings about it. Here I would think most cases are imported. I work in an animalhospital and we try to be restrictive as well but within reason. Anyhow howdy neighbour.
i'm so sorry you had to go through that, but I am glad you were here in Sweden and able to experience the wonderful healthcare. I moved to Stockholm in the beginning of the 90s from Los Angeles. I didn't think much about the healthcare system when I came here but now that I am in my 70s I am so grateful for the wonderful, professional, and affordable care my Swedish husband and I receive. We are both very healthy for our age but the times we needed healthcare, its been amazing. I feel blessed to live here. I've heard some of my older Swedish friends say healthcare is not as good as it used to be, and I can't even imagine how it could be any better. I enjoyed your video and think you're a real sweetheart. krya på dig❤
These are the one of the reasons why I think the winner of the general last election in the US will be a disaster if he wants to take, or as he says "replace", away the ACA as he says he wants to do. Greetings from a half-American in nw. Stockholm.
It took a turn for the worse when they started selling out to venture capitalists, unlike the state they have to make a profit. My mother worked at two hospitals here and saw it first hand on both, they cut down staff and investments into new technology to increase profits. So it took longer and longer to get an appointment, they have less time with each patient and they can't offer the same quality as in the past (compared to other countries). For things less covered like eyes and teeth then Thailand at least used to be popular, the quality is top notch and the price low, so you're basically getting a free vacation for the price. 🌞
A couple of years ago there was a huge issue with Fentanyl Overdoses regarding people who had depressions. this is mostly the reason for the aversion of prescribing opiod painkillers for Swedish medical society. The antibiotica resistance is also something that is a massive issue in the World, Especially regarding cattle and live food production. Sweden is probably the only country who takes this as the serious issue it is, For example Denmark and Germany usually premedicate cattle if only one animal has been sick whils swedish cattle usually gets antibiatoca as a last resort. This means that the antibiotics are about 80-90% lower than the average eu country if i remember right. Sadly this has an negative aversion for us regular patients in Sweden when it comes to diseases such as Lyme Disease where many of us have had to travel to Germany and even USA to get adequate treatment. The there is the fact that our hospitals very much preffer us to cantact them if we have a minor complication rather than prescribe medication or painkillers. both sides has pros and cons in this regards. Best regards. Also i would like to say that Private clinics in Sweden can be a little hit and miss. Some of them are quite good with highly competent personel, but some are really bad. Folktandvården are genrally best equipped to handle dental works and the regular specialists on the hospitals like the Dental specialists on Mölndal hospital in Gothenburg are usually the bests in the country. Often the Specialist Doctors have a privet clinic and work on the regular hospital.
@@Swede_4_More_Years i just got information about a 5 hour surgery and i'll only be given alvedon after. this is a surgery that will take up to a year to recover from. sweden is absurd.
@warwarneverchanges4937 yeeeeezzzzz we be zufferiiiing..thjis why our land Zweeden is named. Ohh, be right back, baby need diaper change! Where wazzz iii...?
I really appreciate that! Every day is better. I have a follow up in two weeks with the jaw surgeon. 2 weeks more of antibiotics. The CT showed ongoing inflammation but that the infection is at bay. The treatment for inflammation is the same as infection... antibiotics. So I am still on Penicillin.
I’ve been a patient a lot and have had a bunch of surgeries due to a congenital spinal cord injury. During 3 or 4 hospital stays I’ve been tested for multi resistant bacteria because some other patient was sick and had it. I’ve also had morphine pills and strong pain killers a lot and have felt how easy it would be to slip into an addiction. This is why it’s important not to over medicate.
I hope you feel better very soon. I think specialist care and ER care here in Sweden are fantastic. At the base GP level, it's a lottery if you get a good doctor or not. I broke my wrist badly this summer and the ER, surgery and follow up cost the equivalent of approx 70 USD. Thats when you really appreciate the health care system. Take care!
I moved to Sweden from Hungary 2009 as a 19 year-old. I havent had the "chance" to try the Hungarian hospitals as I was young and healthy. But 3 years ago I fell sick and in the hospital in Sweden they discovered colon cancer that had spread to various places in my abdomen. I had an acute surgery first followed by a planned surgery. During the planned surgery they used a method that, as I had heard, doesn't even exist in the USA because it is so expensive. They basically poured warmed cytostatics in the abdomen and sew it up. They then had to poke four holes on the sides of my abdomen to let the cytostatic fluid drain during the following days. The nurses told me that the operation and treatment I got was the toughest that existed and had i been older or less physically fit then it would not have been possible to undergo it as I would have died during the procedure.
As a Spanish person living in Malmö for 18 months and having lived in other countries, I can only say that the Swedish health service is the best I have had the opportunity to try. Every time I have gone to the hospital I have always felt very well. I'm so glad you're feeling better, best wishes from Malmö.
Not the same as when cysts, and pus is involved, but I didn't get, nor need pain killers when I went through the procedure of getting a titan tooth implant screw. I think it's one of those things where if it turns out that you did need stronger painkillers, and/or antibiotics, you're going to wish you had gotten it from the start, but I presume that they have statistical numbers showing that the majority doesn't actually need it.
I did spend 5 days in the ER after dislocating my shoulder, had 2 surgery's and loads of x-rays and visits to doctor/rehab and such, cost me like $300 for it all (Sweden), and i would agree with not giving antibiotics for everything, resistant bacteria's is a serious threat.
Interesting! My grandson has recently had a cyst in his chin, full of inflammation, so he's been operated on, but it has hitherto gone well. I wish you a quick recovery! Thank you for sharing this story!
I’m really sorry you’ve had to go through this. But it’s also comforting to know that you are well-taken cared of. As someone who has been on the receiving end of emergency care due to an (at that time) unknown tumor (not cancer), I also ended up being one of the odd 0.1% people who got something really rarely and practically unheard of ‘thing’ that is only ever mentioned as ‘possible’ in ‘theory’. It’s easy to look back and think:”they should have done this differently.” When in reality we are the odd ones out in the statistics. We are the exception. I feel you, truly, and all I can really say is that we got some shit luck. I don’t really think anyone did anything wrong here. You and I just happened to be the odd ones out.
The opiod crisis in the US is a big reason why Sweden is so restrictive on pain meds. But I agree with you on the antibiotics, you should have had that from the start.
You should have antibiotics WHEN and IF you have bacterial infection (proven) with serious symptoms. We do not need to develop severe resistance to the antibiotics
Preoperative antibiotics used to be standard in Sweden too, however that has changed due to no proven benefits - higher risk of complications with antibiotics than without.
OMG Brandon you have been though it, glad your getting well, well done to all the Swedish doctors dentist, nurses, they are worth there weight in gold, look after yourself,lots of love from Linda in Scotland xxx💙❤️🩹🇸🇪💊
I've spent a lot of time at Sahlgrenska and Östra in Göteborg. If you are in pain and are admitted, or in the ER, you can ask for a morphine injection and they'll usually do it for you. I had them do that when I was having trouble walking from a joint bleed. (I have hemophilia). I've been here for 18 years now. ;)
(from sweden) I have had my wisdom teeth removed, (also also did upper jaw surgery so I know that world quite well) I did the wisdom teeth surgery in 2 parts, first one side, heal, then the other side. And the second time I got an infection. Didn't have much problem with pain or sickness but I've got prescribed antibiotics. And luckily for me, some hour after I took the antibiotic, I was standing in the bathroom and just pushed at the swollen cheek, and liquid started pouring into my mouth, so I just spit it out and filled my mouth over and over again. I drained the infection by my self. So I guess I was lucky with the complication. I can't imagine pain you must have felt
Hi from Dalarna Sweden. I had the same problem after impacted wisdom tooth operation. But i had covid so i couldn't get it drained, but i got antibiotics straight away. But it took me almost 3 weeks before i could open my mouth and eat properly. It was the worst. Good you are feeling better.
They err on the side of caution here in Aotearoa/ New Zealand as well and only prescribe antibiotics as a last resort. They're also cautious over pain relief, especially opioids. I have to say l much prefer our approach and am always shocked when l hear of people from other countries being given antibiotics for viruses, colds and flu and the like. I would lose faith in my Dr if he even suggested such a thing.
You know you are so right. The two big factors that stand out to me for antibiotic resistance is giving them for things that are viral which I am proud to say in the USA I think most newer trained healthcare workers understand and the other being patients stopping the medication before it’s finished just because they feel better. I think we are learning now we should not be afraid of antibiotics but use them cautiously. In my case we are learning I should have gotten them right from the beginning based on the nature of my surgery. In fact the CT shows no infection now this week but still inflammation of which the treatment is the same for … antibiotics. Apparently I had ongoing inflammation because so much bone was removed and when the antibiotics were stopped it came back. I see this a lot with our patients with foot wounds. The antibiotics really help a lot in many cases. The key is having a knowledgeable and competent provider who is up to date with current trends and is not ruled by fear to give patients appropriate care. Patients should not suffer because a provider is to afraid to do the right thing for the patient as an individual. I am proud to say the physicians I work with are quite competent here in Sweden in my department and do an excellent job.
@becurious2000 Well said. I nearly had a conniption (such a lovely old word, l can't resist using it) when a friend offered another friend some of their "left over" antibiotics. I couldn't believe anyone could be that stupid and it took me quite some time to explain that they were actually contributing to the breeding of antibiotic resistant strains. It sounded dreadful and l hope you're on top of it now.
Me too I'm very satisfied with the care they gave me one year ago. I was standing on my porch watching Aurora when I felt this indescribable pain in my chest, it was so bad that I collapsed when I came to my senses I went to my neighbour because I thought I couldn't manage to make a call when I came to the end of my porch I got the second attack and collapsed again, the third time I had just knocked on my neighbour's door. I just remember him shouting to his wife to call an ambulance. They drove me to Gällivare 100 km at the hospital they discovered that I had an aneurysm and dissection of my aorta so they decided to fly me to Umeå, (500km). When I was waiting for the next ambulance to drive me to the plane I had a stroke during the operation in Umeå (8,5 hours) I got pneumonia and my kidneys and liver started to strike, and for the first time in my life, I gained weight (12 kg) due to my kidneys not working, thanks to dialysis that went away almost just as fast. After just over 2 weeks at the ICU they drove to the airport and flew me (300km), to another ICU near Luleå where I spent the next 15 days, another ambulance and another flight (250km) I was back in Gällivare spent just a month in a normal care unit and then they drove me back To Jokkmokk where I spent just 2 days in the hospital. My 2 sisters and husbands and my brother came from the Netherlands to stay by my side and even though I don't remember anything they said it felt so amazingly comforting to have them there, they told me later that they experienced the care I got as even better than in the Netherlands (they have had kids on the ICU). There was in my case never any discussion about antibiotics or drugs they have been giving me different forms of anti-biotics the first week because I was critical and then they just gave what they thought would do the job. I don't remember much from the first 2 weeks other than that I felt so good to have my family and kids by my side and all the most wonderful drugs they gave me (I'm an experienced user, was an addict on and off for 30 years, clean for 10 years now). So Yeah I am very grateful for the excellent care I received the only negative thing I can say is that the food in Gällivare hospital was horrible. But the staff was so incredibly nice that even though it's a year later I'm still touched when I think about them.
Hope you are doing well today! All the best! Had myself an disection of the internal carotid artery, the pain I felt and before anyone believed me (days) was the most difficult time of my life. This was at the age of 30 and my wife in 8 months expecting our first. All went well, after 300 pills of blood medicin I am now 40 and feeling stronger then ever. Sometimes life gives you a second chance
Thanks for the video. It's interesting to hear a foreigners perspective. I've never had tooth surgery but I did have brain surgery and only had paracetamol and ibuprofen as pain killers after the surgery day. When I had gallbladder surgery I got morphine to take home but didn't use it. I can't remember the last time I had to take antibiotics. I think it's smart to be restrictive with prescribing antibiotics but you should absolutely get it when you need it.
Thanks for sharing your experience with us. Hearing how, in the midst of your own pain and suffering, you managed to also think about the wellfare of other people (by not wanting to overburden the healthcare system) is so heartwarming. Shows what a deeply considerate and trusting person you are. As a farmer with livestock here in Sweden I've come to understand a few things about antibiotic resistance and why we in Sweden are so restrictive and careful. First of all antibiotic restistance in the West is driven by a combination of factors, both over- and misuse in the medical profession and over- and misuse in livestock production. The routine use of antibiotics (ab) in livestock is often to promote growth and prevent disease as most livestock (that is not out on pasture) is kept in overcrowded and unhygeinic conditions. Resistant bacteria develop and spread to humans through direct contact with animals, consumtion of undercooked (and even sometime well cooked) meat that's been contaminated and can carry resistant genes if cross-contamination occurs in food processing or preparation (ie foodborne transmission), and environmental exposure (water, soil). For example, manure from livestock can contaminate water and soil, spreading resistant bacteria that can enter the human food supply through crops irrigated with conamtinated water or through direct contact with the environment. In the U.S. and Europe concerns have been growing over the potential of "superbugs" originating in agricultural settings to spill over to the human population. Overall, the overuse of antibiotics in livestock farming significantly inreases the number of rb in the environment and human population, making it more challenging to treat infections and increases the burden on public health systems worldwide. Reducing unnecessary anbtibiotic use in agriculture is a key part of combating antibiotic resistance. It's very important that people understand that this is one of the prices we have to pay for CHEAP ABUNDANT FOOD. Keeping animals confined in small spaces increases the profitability of production but it's patients like yourself as well as the wider community and society that is paying a hefty price. If food was more expensive and animals could be kept in better conditions this issue would probably not be as dire as it currently it. In Sweden it's not allowed to give antibiotics to animals for growth or pre-emptivly to combat disease so we are trying to do our part. But this is a worldwide problem and considering an estimated 40% of all food produced is wasted and thrown away it seems like such an ineffective and wasteful agrifood system we’ve created for ourselves. Glad you're feeling better!!
I always enjoy your feedback and your channel! I like watching your channel to help me improve my Swedish. I am hoping long term to follow your path and live off the land... sort of a homestead type of life. Thanks again for the nice comments and information!
@ best of luck with that. Compared to the rest of Western Europe Sweden is pretty affordable if you’re looking to find a house and some land (at least in the north). And with you background as a nurse I’m sure you’ll be able to find work near a city or larger town.
As a tourist in New York, we got very inadequate healthcare. The Swedish doctors couldn't believe that they prescribed such a low dose of antibiotics for an ear infection and as a result, my sister partially lost hearing on one of her ears.
Those red streaks will get you help every time🙈 I had some tiny little wound/scratch on my toe that got infected once I couldn't wear my shoe, I called the vårdcentral, they let me see the nurse. As soon as she saw my foot she ran and got a doctor. Got antibiotics immediatly. So glad your doing better, what an ordeal.
I also experienced being denied antibiotics in Sweden but the nature of it all with the resistance build-up it's really hard to know what's correct and not. In your case it was obviously a bad choice but in mine I have no idea, I've not been close to dying from it or getting seriously hurt.
My aunt's husband became a drug addict after getting pain medicine for his back. He got their whole family deep in dept and she had to pay off for years after divorcing him, living on just the very basics with the kids - not to mention the human suffering. Perhaps your willingness to tough it out and general bravery made them think you'd be fine without heavier meds. Addiction is not a complication you want even for your worst enemy.
I agree. About 20 years ago l was offered the cool drugs but refused and was hence given A LOT OF THEM, so I could use them if needed. I don't know how other people react in this situation but I took everything I was given. Who am I to disagree with the experts.
I hear you.I have a friend who got addicted and ended up in jail for stealing drugs from his patients. He had never had pain meds, hurt his shoulder in a skiing accident, and was prescribed the same medication you give to cancer patients- way too strong of medication.
Sweden is very restrictive prescribing opioids/morphine when not necessary. They only do it to those who other pain meds doesn’t work anymore but that is still very controlled and restricted.
I have had very stopping, potentially addictive pain medication because I was in severe pain. When I was no longer in pain I stopped the medication. I am not addicted. Pain medication needs to be given cautiously but we must not demonise the medication and stop those who need it from being prescribed or.
@@becurious2000 I found this very interesting, as a chronic pain patient in Sweden. Thanks for sharing your experience. I think when it comes to pain killers, Sweden has gone too far in the restriction. I've had chronic pain for over a decade, and been tossed around like a hot potato in health care. Even the pain specialists are so restrictive, I've tried so many medications with horrible side effects (anti-depressants, anti-epileptics, allergy meds... Anything but actual painkillers!) for a decade and only got worse. Finally, last year, when my pain was so bad I couldn't sleep or eat and the health care kept stalling and pushing my appointment forward, I went private. And got adequate pain relief for the first time, after seeking help since I was 14. It literally took 20 years. The first 10 was just to get a diagnosis, and even then I didn't get any help. I would have thought that the pain specialist at the hospital, who'd been putting me off for 6 months, offered a morphine plaster in the meantime that made me horribly sick, would have been thrilled! After 20 years, I finally had adequate pain relief, that's cause for celebration?! Nope. He just said that Swedish pain specialist don't belive there's any evidence that cannabis has any pain relieving effects. 🤦🏼♀️
Wow I am so sorry I have never heard about anything this bad. Taking out bad teeth/cheeck situations is truly never fun.... I never had a cyst but I had a tooth that had grown into my cheechbone so they didn´t really want to touch that either because of the nerv damage. I am surprised about you not getting antibiotics earlier... My tooth was removed after becoming bad again after 4 antibiotic cures. I lost sensation in my whole left side of the cheek and my lip for almost 6 months after the surgery and now 2 years after all sensation is finally back. So it can take a really long time for the nerves to heal. Cannot imagine the horror you have experienced. Hope you heal fast! I
I’m so glad to hear your sensation returned, glad for you (of course!) but also to hear there is hope should that happen to me since I’m in a similar situation (wisdom teeth roots too close to the nerve to remove safely). I hope you recover fully!
Earlier this year i had a wisdom tooth surgery. My dentist recommended me to have one quite soon even though it did not bothered me. Couse when you are younger you heal a lot faster. Im 34. So i did. I did not have any cyst nor pain before but they wanted that thing out. It was pushing on its neighbor and caused damaged in that one, later had a root canal on that one. At the same time I took blood thinners so trying to stop the bleeding afterwards was annoying, but i got there. I find it strange that they did not recommend doing anything in the US. Before the surgery and after i took some special mouth wash to clean the mouth with. For pain they usually recommended Alvedon and Ipren but as i was on blood thinners i could not take Ipren. They prescribed me some morphin which i did not use since i was okey with the Alvedon (paracetamol).
I feel you! I am a German who has been living in Sweden for almost 11 years. I have had unbelievably bad experiences with dentists. The first dentist I went to for a root canal treatment did an unbelievably bad job. It turned out that she had treated the root canals incorrectly and a lot more. She is no longer licensed. I then went to another dentist and this one also made it worse, so that I had a large abscess. In the end I begged for him to remove the tooth because it was unbearable. After that I did a lot of research and looked for a good dentist. Finally I found a private clinic with a German-Swedish dentist. Of course a private clinic is very expensive, but it was worth it to me. In the end three additional teeth had to be removed due to previous treatment errors. I needed four dental bridges in total, which ended up costing me almost 100k SEK. I am happy and was lucky to find a very professional dentist in the end. After the operations, he also prescribed me suitable and effective painkillers (paracetamol-codeine mixture). I hope you feel well again soon and that everything will be just a faint memory in the end.
US here, with a shoulder replacement. My dentist always prescribes antibiotics prior to and after any invasive procedure, so any open oral surgery. Where I live you would have been hospitalized with IV antibiotics with those symptoms.
Interesting difference in praxis compared to Finland: I have just had an artificial root put in last Monday, and I have still one and a half days left of the routine course of antibiotics (Kefexin) that the dental surgeon prescribed. I did have some swelling and pain, but otherwise things seem to be going well. Best of luck for your healing!
Oh my god...I can't even imagine the astronomical levels of hell you've been through! I'm glad they kept working with you and they were nice to you on top of that. Its good insight to hear about your experience with the healthcare system. I understand not everyone's experience is the same, but it was something I was wondering. The closest thing I got to a medical related procedure while in Sweden was getting my first tattoo and yes they do take being sterile very seriously. Which I am happy about.The guy worked fast did a phenomenal job and didn't feel any pain. However, I hope you are feeling better and definitely liked and subscribed!
Norway is the same. You need to have an arm almost cut of in Norway. They are very scared for the opioid situation from the US come to Scandinavia. I traveld to the US, and we lost our flight, and I had calculated wrong how many pain meds I had brought with me, so the hotel called a doctor and I got a opineinm,ent and it was no biggie to get some help. Quick and easy. Another time I had pneumonia and all I wanted was some antibiotics fort and keep on going for my vacation in New York! But they kept me over two nights and I had 8 different doctors coming to se me. Felt like I was a golden ticket for them to squeeze out all the insurance money!
Your video was recommended to me by the algorithm, but I have had lots of experience with the Swedish healthcare system due to a genetic heart condition that I have that was actually discovered while I've lived here. This year is my 20th anniversary of living in Sweden. About 8 years ago, it was discovered through a routine physical exam that I have an AV Block III and had to get a pacemaker in. From the moment it was discovered to when I was sent to the emergency room, I got excellent care and it all happened very quickly. They even sent me on an over hour long ambulance ride to another hospital to get an MRI! They wanted to get a good image of my heart before the implant. They do NOT play around with heart conditions! Fast forward to today and it's progressed to me now having dilated cardiomyopathy. My cardiologist just couldn't understand how a woman my age (early 50s) could have these issues and ordered genetic testing for me. Turns out I have a laminen mutation which is the cause of all of this. There's nothing that can be done. So, now they have me on 5 different meds and I had my second pacemaker implant (CRT-P) in 2022. I cannot say enough good things about the care I have gotten here. It's been amazing and I've paid next to nothing out of pocket for it! I would absolutely be bankrupt if this had all happened in the US. I'm realy surprised you didn't get antibiotics when you had the wisdom teeth surgery. Besides the pacemaker surgery, I've also had a minor gyno type surgery and they put me on antibiotics to prevent any infections that could occur in both cases. I would think they would have considered wisdom teeth surgery to be similar, but I guess not? Really sorry you had to suffer through that infection!
Thanks for sharing! Yea I am so glass they take heart issues seriously. I had heart trouble this summer after my dad passed away. They got right on it! I am super grateful for that.
From Norway here, and I really think you should have had painkillers, but I guess you have to actively ask for it. My husband had a minor surgery on his hand, and got it automatically. I experienced sepsis myself 9 years ago, and have my own harrowing experience from it, mostly that I was sent home with 2 boxes of antibiotics instead of hooking me up with IV immidiately, and 9 years later I still have ME from it. I also have experience from giving birth in the US, and in that particular case, I was glad to receive care in the US. Norway is really really big on natural deliveries, sometimes to the detriment to the mothers health, and in the US I had a C-section, before it was allowed to go really bad. I appreciate that so much. Overall, I'm pro healthcare for all/socialized medicine, but there can always be improvements made, for sure. Hope for your speedy recovery!
That was such a horrible story. I have not heard of anything like it before. Thank you for sharing! I hope that you get well again quite soon. Much love. 🤗
In Finland as I got taken wisdom tooth out I did get Penicillin and pain killers.. Paracetamol and Ibuprofen .. both for a couple of days. It's really hard to get strong opioid based pain killers here.. and generally it's not needed. I have some stronger ones (even those are not opioid based) that I got for my neck pain that was pushing some nerve and radiating to my arm. I think it's kinda standard if you have bigger operation in your mouth the antibiotics are quite important since you have a lot of bacteria and growing grounds for them in the mouth. The second time I had to take out wisdom tooth from the other side it was a faster procedure .. no surgery, just pulled out so I think it was only pain killers then.
Agreed. After a significant tooth-related surgery I had done about 15 years ago I was prescribed both antibiotics and morfine to lessen the extreme pain. I was glad, because it really helped, but on the other hand I'm also not a proponent of handing out heavily addictive drugs 😅 None the less, I think our system works well for what it is and the tax money we put into it, and if even more funds were directed that way I think it would only get better. But I don't think the healthcare here is any better than in Finland, Germany, France, Spain or elsewhere. It's just about pros and cons essentially 😊
I'm not in the dental field, but I am an infection biology masters student here in sweden. From what I've been taught so far, the true is that more and more bacteria will become resistant to more and more antibitics as it's a trend that's been seen with many bacteria, especially for bacteria that are commonly associated with many different infections. For example staphylococcus aureus is a common bacteria in the micro flora in multiple tissues on us humans, but a smaller portion of the species have become penicilin resistant making an infection that used to only occur as an effect of something else and was easy to treat extremely difficult to get rid of
What you say is true. This situation has sent me down the rabbit hole of reading through a lot of the research on this matter. What I am seeing is pretty much in line with what you are saying with a caveat. According the a lot of the research articles I have found, there are also risk associated with "antibiotic avoidance" including serious complications. I think what I am seeing here is the application of the 80 percent on the 20 percent. In other words, what is good for the 80 percent group gets applied to the other 20 percent of the population that it is not appropriate for. (80 and 20 percent are arbitrary numbers I am using metaphorically to illustrate a point).So in my case, I would have been in the so called 20 percent group but got "standardized care" which was not optimal in my case. I fear this is a problem not just in Sweden but world wide as many times doctors are so focused on treating patients based on standardized guidelines rather than treating patients as individuals. The standards are a protection and helpful but one should not be so reliant and them that they lose critical thinking skills. One thing I learned when I became a prescriber in Texas was, that when a patient presents to you with symptoms, you generally think of the typical causes for their symptoms all the while being cognizant that maybe 1 out of 5 people with those symptoms have it for another reason. I think it is a very complex issue especially when considering oral surgery. The mouth is a very dirty place and it is very difficult to keep clean after surgery. There are known risks associated with bacteria from the teeth getting into the blood stream and migrating somewhere else. By withholding antibiotics in my case to prevent resistance we have now increased my risk for antibiotic resistance as now I have been on 5 weeks of antibiotics and have damage to my jaw from the infection which is going to take a long time to heal. I think the key is good prescribing stewardship rather than just a treating every patient the same. Possibly we could have reduced my risk for antibiotic resistance and complications by having a milder prescription for a few days as opposed to weeks or months on two different antibiotics.
20:50 This is something Swedish healthcare really needs to work on. Sending people home with "call us if it gets worse" is seemingly not good enough. I've heard this time and again, people being told that they should have come back in. People are not doctors, some will soldier through after being sent home, against their own judgement, a doctor sent them home in the first place, after all. I wonder what, if there's any, evidence we have for the current state of affairs. Maybe people are even worse at making judgement calls if they are given criteria from their doctors. As for geting pain meds, it can be extra difficult for people with ASD. Communicating levels of pain and discomfort seems to be more difficult and seems to be taken less seriously. That's also something I hear a lot. Clear, firm, maybe even blunt verbal communication seems to be the key.
I broke a rib. They sent me home the day after and told me to come back in if I needed. As a Swede I knew that meant "call 1177". When you call 1177, you give them all your symptoms, and they will tell you if you need to go back to the hospital or not. I don't remember what pain meds I got, just that they didn't work and that I couldn't drive a car while taking them.
It's also a generational thing. Boomers _really_ don't want to be a "nuisance" to the point of being a risk to themselves. And it's almost impossible to get them to do something against the doctors orders/recommendations. (I'm generalizing of course.) My dad is a perfect example. He's been on an antihistamine for some nose issues for at least 6 years by now. It was supposed to treat his symptoms in a couple of weeks but it took 3 years. I've tried to get him to at least _entertain_ the idea that his recovery had nothing to do with the antihistamin but he can't stop clinging to "the doctor said I should take this" so he won't even bring it up with a doctor now🤦♀
I had 4 horribly impacted wisdom teeth out when I was 17 years old. We didn't mess around and procrastinate because the teeth were "stable." After hearing this story, I'm glad I got them out ASAP.
My experience is that they do prescribed pain killers with codein or something similar after you have this kind of pain. I've never been denied heavy pain killers if needed. Antibiotics though, yes, we're careful with that.
Whoah.. That's really unfortunate. Here I live in Sweden you probably would have gotten IV antibiotics over two days at a hospital ward for that sunday picture, in my experience. Glad you're feeling better, and what an experience you've had! Best wishes! On pain meds I agree with the swedish routine, unless absolutely necessary which it seems like it was in your case. On profylactic antibiotics I think it's standard for procedures, and I think it should be for dental procedures too, to avoid stuff like this happening.
Hope you get better soon. You should have called 1177 to get advice. Even if you are a nurse it is always better to have another person deal with something like this. They will also call the ER so they now that you are coming. They also call for the ambulans if needed. Ulla 🌷🌷🌷
I’m English and I’m surprised about that too but for a different reason. We don’t pay anything to see a doctor, for a doctor home visit or for a hospital visit or drugs prescribed in hospital. It’s covered by taxes which are not as high as in Sweden.
@juliebrooke6099 do you have to pay anything for tests like CT scans? I live in the USA, and my #1 complaint is having to pay hundreds of dollars in insurance copayments for diagnostic tests and procedures like colonoscopies. Insurance companies should at least cover testing at 100%. It's inhumane to charge people just to find out if they have something serious going on.
@juliebrooke6099 Our primary care doctor has to order the tests, too. There are a few private companies that provide the scans, but of course, they're very expensive. People go to the emergency department at hospitals in hopes of getting a scan so they can be billed for it later, and that drives up hospital costs for everyone, but I understand why they do it.
Across Europe there's a wide spectrum of practices on antibiotics and painkillers. I had a surgery in Greece and got IV antibiotics preventatively. Broken wrist + some titan screws and a plate. My doctor argued with SOS International, that did not want to cover the expence of extra hospital stays. In Sweden I would have been sent home. But Greece has EU:s worst record of deaths by multi resistance infections, so I'm happy I was out of there without any infection. Painkillers was restricted though. The first two nights I had to beg for a shot to be able to sleep. Back in Sweden I've had two orthopedic surgeries. Definitely no antibiotics. After orthopedic surgery screwing together a fractured ancle I got Oxycodone for a few weeks, and thereafter Paracetamol.
Interesting to hear. One thing I am proud of in Texas was pain management. If it got to be too complicated and we had concerns, we could consult the palliative pain management team and they were extremely good at their job.
You truly and genuinely are one in a million if we listen to that surgeon... since NOBODY before had serious issues with his surgery.... THEN SUDDENLY you pop in from the USA to prove him wrong 100% ??!! Thus, if they ever need a spokesperson for "What Could Possibly Go Wrong" then you are a superstar.
Always have dental work done early in the week, If there are any complications you have the rest of the week to have your dentist look at it, before they bugger off for the weekend and leave you in the hands of the public system. I learnt that the hard way.
@@becurious2000 If you had asked for it when they did the removal, I doubt they would have refused. It is quite common to get something after that, but, alas, people do have different pain tolerances, and they don't want to prescribe opoids if they do not need to. Usually "Can I get something for the pain?" suffices :O
I'm surprised. I thought our healthcare system had collapsed way more than what you described. Your experience sounds like what it used to be like 20-30 years ago when I was a kid. Can't say I've had any good experiences with our healthcare in a long time and I kind of gave up on the system when I had tonsillitis a few years ago. I sought medical care after 3 weeks, they sent me home without proper examination - it was at the "jour" (for non-Swedes, jour is like when another company runs healthcare during after-hours in place of the regular one) after regular hours. After that, I endured for another 3 weeks but at that point, I was unable to talk and had to push air out in order to make sounds. I called the medical advice service and they said I should go see a doctors again, so I did. After seeing a doctor, I was prescribed a 10 day antibiotics cure but didn't fully recover. On the 10th day, I called the medical advice service once again and they said I should go see a doc at the "jour" in the evening and once I was there, they examined me and concluded I still had a bacterial infection and sent me home without treatment. At that point, I had been ill for 2 months already and I became completely disillusioned with society and just lost hope entirely. In total, I had pain in my throat and cough for 10 months straight and gave up on our wellfare system and especially the healthcare as a whole. I'm a native Swedish person and my ancestors have been Swedish on both sides for about 10 generations. I must say though, I am actually genuinely happy to hear that you had a good experience with our healthcare despite the complications! Also, that consideration of not wanting to burden the system and being reluctant to call an ambulance - that sounds very "Swedish" to me. I've noticed people have gotten more self-centered lately, especially during the past 8-10 years. With regards to your over all experience, I can say that when you arrive at the emergency room, they prioritize the most acutely ill patients first so if you'd been there with something less severe (like a fractured leg for example), you might've had to wait a really long time. All-in-all, this video honestly made me think that maybe there is still some hope in our society and maybe it's just where I live now that things are especially bad.
I live in Sweden and I've never met anyone or been given any painkillers or antibiotics for pulling teeth. I've also never seen anyone get an infection from pulling teeth. Every time I've had them pulled, even when I had inflamation it sort itself out fairly quickly. You were indeed very unlucky, I've never seen anyone get sick like this from pulling teeth. We normally just pull them and then have it heal in a day or two.
when i grew up i had 2 wisdom teeth removed by my dentist that was from the "old school" he was horrible. he made me realy scared of dentists. going forward to 27 i had two other wisdom teeth that started to make a problem. i told the dentist (folktandvården) that i did not like dentists. they were so awesome, so damn gentle and nice. the woman doctor (boss at that place) looked over everything and most stuff been done in my mouth was done bad by the old dentist. so she helped me get it fixed. (including removing another teeth and fitting a new one) then i got a date for the wisdom teeth removal and that surgeon was fantastic . i fell asleep during his operation. also got an infection later but not as severe, antibiotics worked, but the painkillers i got did not work at all so had to get stronger ones.
I had two removed (at separate occasions) this summer. I've been through terrible experiences so I was REALLY worried but my dentist is awesome. She had them removed within 10-15 minutes. I didn't have any antibiotics nor painkillers. And I even went back to work afterwards (even though she told me not to).
I love the medical services here, but there are certian situations where you need to be your own advocate or have one with you. That being said they are very big on looking at the community as a whole when it comes to antibiotics and pain meds. They don't want to created problems that may put the community at risk. I've been in both the Swedish and American systems and there are, like you said, good in both, but at the end of the day I prefer Sweden.
Whew, you really went through hell there! Your story has been among top on my UA-cam since you published. Must be because we're in the same City, I guessed, because the pic of Bridge to Copenhagen. I felt I am supposed to watch and comment. When really sick, life-threatening, and in pain you are so vulnerable, and suddenly not being at home feels so much worse. We have experienced that situation in my family too. I have worked at the hospital and I know the jaw surgery department has a good reputation and handles the hardest cases. In one way good that you where here, but I understand the question marks. I think others more suited have commented on that. The education for dentist is right next to the hospital, guess that's why your room got crowded at one point. I volunteer to give you a hug if I spot you down town. 😁
Restrictions on pain meds really have gotten insane in Sweden, used to be much better just 5-6 years ago but now you're just screwed if you're in pain. Went to the ER a couple of times about a year ago, screaming in pain and the doctors just say "I don't prescribe morphine because of some people might become addicted" refering to the American opiod epidemic. The basically just checked to see if I was in any seriuos danger but couldn't find anything and sent me home, meanwhile I'm screaming in pain. I used to love the Swedish health care but there's something seriously wrong when doctors refuse to treat severe pain. What's worse is they're probably increasing the risk of addiction as people are forced to find other ways of dealing with the pain. I "managed" (didn't really get any sleep and my screaming probably kept some neighbours awake as well) without resorting to using any illegal drugs but others might not, in fact I know of some who didn't, just because the doctors refused to help them with their pain.
it's quite interesting! I think Finland would be somewhere in between! I don't work in health care, but in my experience it is true that the antibiotics are not given easily. For example for a sinus infection you don't get antibiotics here nowadays (we still did have those around 10 years ago). But I've heard that in these kind of situations, like yours, for example teeth/mouth surgery, they do give them. Also I've understood that in Finland it's an idea that a patient shouldn't feel pain, as getting better pain free helps you get better sooner. So pain killers are given. But the really strong pain killers only if you can't cope with the pain on the more common pain killers such as ibuprofein or parasetamol.
I fell when longboarding and fractured my wrist badly (one of the bones were snapped in half). When I got to the hospital they almost immiediately gave me oxynorm (a relatively strong painkiller), and I wasn't even in much pain at all. I just shrugged it off and told her that it's fine without the painkillers. She talked me into taking it. After the surgery they prescribed plenty of both alvedon and oxynorm. Crazy how you were basicaly denied painkillers and i wast talked into taking them.
I have noticed this too. Where I work, when patients say the Alvedon does not cover the pain, the next step is oxynorm, then anti epileptic meds like gabapentin as we deal with a lot of nerve pain as well in my department. I don't understand why there is nothing in between for pain management. Why go straight to oxynorm. Interesting reading the comments from those from Sweden saying that the reason pain meds are not given is to prevent dependency but then the pain management goes from Alvedon straight to Oxynorm or some other very strong medication. My friend who is a nurse in America hurt his shoulder in a skiing accident and the first drug he was prescribed was a drug related to Oxynorm. Long story short he developed dependency, started stealing drugs at work and ended up in prison. He never had a problem before. There are so many other drugs one can prescribe before one gets to such strong drugs. Those are a last resort in my opinion.
In Denmark it is the same as Sweden. You only get antibiotics if you have an infection, you can’t treat something which is not there. Pain medication is probably a little more relaxed here, but you would only get like 10-20 tablets.
I think maybe you had a kind of allergic reaction to the meds, I had those, too. It's a kind of bad luck, you were a rare patient who had this reaction.
The emergency room is extremely quick and fast when you are really sick. If you have a bad cold you could be sitting there for a loooong time as everyone that are sicker are prioritised (as they should be) I have had everything between 2 minutes to 6 hours over my life.
I live in Denmark, and I had three wisdom tooth removed, also with infection in, the dentist prescribed antibiotics for one day before and three days after, but no pain medicine prescribed
Thank you fore sharing your experience! Very interesting to hear from an American point of view. Sadly, our way with antibitics and painkillers is unhumane, the reasong sound understandable, however, out of my own experience from getting healthcare many times around the world, also taking in the depenancy and tolerance arguments.. We totally fail in these areas.. I can share the proper words for describing how bad our way fails medicinal ethics here, but they're very strong... Get better soon
Talk about bad luck!! I suffer with anxiety as well so I get you on that part. I once was having 3 "tänder" ( can't spell it in English) taken out under while being put under. I told the doctor that I had really bad pain in one of my teeth and asked about pencelin, she said "no worries" She didn't give that and the day after I was in soo much pain, went to urgent care, they gave me morfin tablets to have until I saw the doctor again. Then she gave me pencillin and pain killer. As well as you I suffered like.... I don't go to hospital even when I should because of all the wrong thing happened to me. Sitting and listening to you, I felt so extremely sorry for you. Sorry for rambling
I'm sorry for your ordeal and all the pain you had to gp through! I say that antibiotics are too restricted in Sweden as a prevention, so much are given to animals as prevention to those so to give to patients who could be at risk of infection is too restricted imo. They should've let you stay for observation in a ward at the hospital. To go to the ER aren't free of charge but affordable in Sweden. Its 300 -400 SEK, differs which region as they decide the costs independently. If you need to go, you call for a sjukbil - which is basicly a taxi taking you there, better cost than a taxi fare. If you need paramedics you of course need to call an ambulance. Doesnt cost 700$ or like how much I really dont know though. I had to call for a sjukbil once to go to the ER unit at the neatest hospital, and it came within 15 min. My experience at the hospital was good, I was well threated but of course I had to wait bc there were other patients. I was taken to a room though, and could lay down after had been in triage. Turned out I had been prescribed the wrong antibiotics by the doctor for pheumonia as it was mycoplasma, and that calls for an other type of antibiotics. So the meds Ive been taken didnt help. At all. I was getting really ill, chills and sweating and all the works. NDE almost. The doctor at the ER was really annoyed when she heard about it, bc I might aswell had gotten the antibiotics that works for both. Would have spared me, and spared me from having to go to the hospital. Fixed it in the first place. I told the doctor at the primary care unit, vårdcentralen, that I strongly suspected mycoplasma bc my son had just been sick in this kind of phenumena from mycoplasma and he was admitted in to hospital ward, infection bc he was so infected and couldnt breath. But no - the doctor said this wasn't possible due to the time span of incubation it could not be that I had myvoplasma just bc my son had it for 3 weeks ago. Well what do you know! The ER doctor said that yes we are restricted for prescribing antibiotics, its always within the procotols from the Medical Agency but there are linits to for being too restrictive in our daily practise to our patients needs. Also, a test for mycoplasma is really easily done, its just a swab test from the inside of the cheek. Nothing complicated and nothing expensive. Yes I agree that we must advocate for our needs as patients, and be really assertive about it.
Folktandvården is dental care for anyone, but it is unlikely to cover all needs for everyone. As a child growing up in Sweden it was always Folktandvården for me. So not quite the same as affordable care. I now live in the UK where our daughter (now in her forties) would get antibiotics far too quickly! I hope that has improved, and it seems so to me.
I'm glad to hear this was your experience. I work as an assisting nurse at an emergency hospital and my perception from co-workers, hearing about the ER, is that it's always under alot of strain and often chaos. However, atleast the chaos part ofcourse differs from day to day and time of the day. And everyone working within healthcare, ofcourse tries their best so that the patient doesn't feel the stress and pressure and lacking sense of control the staff's under. That's a thing though. You were talking about customer service. We don't. We don't see you as our customer, we see you as our patient. (Our bosses might talk a different language, but on the floor it's clear.) As a human being, you have the right to health and thus health care, who ever you are (even though our rightwing, racist led government is trying to change that through law, ignoring international law). As a patient, you are in a vulnerable situation and should be treated from that knowledge. Call it ethics or call it solidarity, you should feel seen and be helped by forming an alliance of co-operation between you and the team of medical professions needed to help you. By trying to help you, not just physically but also mentally and emotionally, getting through this experience, the team's - incl your - chances for good resuslts increases. So it's not just right on a basic human level of solidarity, but it's professionally better. Last, I'm ofcourse biased from being Swedish, and I can't speak on your case specifically. Did you explain how bad your pain was? Or like, did anyone NRS you and you said, what, like 7-10? One shouldn't have to beg for it, but ofcourse the nurses and doctors must know how bad it is, since we're not handing it out just in case. If they realized you were in that sort of pain, I find it weird you weren't given anything sharper sooner. (Not putting it on you, it's a genuine question. Many hold back describing pain and here's there's also the cultural difference of you not being used to even have to ask for it. But it could ofcourse just as well be them who didn't take enough notice and missed on sincerely asking you about your pain.) It sounds like you should have got it earlier. Be it a misread from their point of view, a misunderstanding between you or be it "just" a wrongly/badly made decision. That's just my first reaction, since you got it in the end, after the dentist understanding how bad it was, and it got better. But I don't know anything about mouth pain, maybe it usually gets like much better quickly and that's why you didn't get anything sharper until some time ha passed. But it sounds wrong. I do think it was right to prescribe it gradually though and not just handing you a big box to digg into or keep at home for the next time you're in pain to self-medicate with (which usually happen when people get left-over drugs, not talking about you specifically ofcourse). Overall, I DO think we are on the right track when it comes to antibiotics and analgesics. I know we differ from the rest of the world, especially outside of Europe, but this is a change in paths we have taken; we used to be more generous like 50-100 years back. But we changed paths precisely BECAUSE of the extremely dangerous increase in antibiotic resistant bacteria and dependency issues (the last one not least in the US with a much more market driven drug sales system). And we DO see these problems rising faster in the rest of the world who doesn't hve these types of restrictions. Especially where there's no general healthcare systems in place. I know that NGO's like Doctors Without Borders are trying to challenge these views around the world, by education and their work on the ground. Trying to care for people with for example antibiotic resistant TB - which is on the rise globally - is basically hell, and ofcourse incomparably worse for the patient. So, yeah, it might be putting extra strain on the ER's but that's a much lesser cost for society and humanity, than that of people getting destroyed by dependency or incurable diseases re-entering the majority of the health care field, the way it used to be before the penicillin. Best wishes for your continued recovery!
I had a kidney stone being completely stuck for 5 days, I was getting more and more nauseous and I got to the point of having "njurbäckeninflammation" before even calling 1177. When asked how much pain I was in, I said 6. I thought that was a reasonable number as I was still alive, wasn't shot nor did I have a broken bone 🤷🏻♀️ I was told to arrange my own transport to the hospital an hour's drive away. I didn't make it that far though. When I found an "jourmottagning" on the way there, I went there instead, and they told me that I should have demanded an ambulance. I had emergency surgery later that night (at 2 am). We all have different scales. To be honest, women probably rate their pain lower than men...
@erikak8665 Yeah. That's why it's so hard when one is only talking on the phone. Like, can't see the expression, sometimes it's harder to read the tone or hear like other sounds, like how heavy- or shallow-breathing the person is; and it's a complete stranger so one doesn't know hiw they usually sound or deal with pain for that matter. I ususally help with the NRS scale, by saying some guiding pointers (0 is no pain at all, up to say 3-4 is managable, than it gets more and more unmanagable, 10 is the maximum amount of pain you CAN feel - think torture. Something like that.) If I sense that we might be thinking differently about the pain scale, I ask follow-ups. "Ok, so I'd interpret that like you're ok with this amount of pain, but if it increases any, it would start getting unmanagable. Would you say that is how you feel?" Or "So, if you were at home with this amount of pain, what would you do?" Or "Would you say you'd be able to sleep at night even though you have this pain, or would it keep you up?", "Can you move around with this pain?" "Are you down-playing it, because I can see that you are grimaging right now..?" etc, etc. Like if you say 6, I'd still ask "Can you drive or does it hurt too much? Could you deal with having to hit the breaks or a bump in the road? Can you focus on driving and what's happening on the road with this pain, are you safe in traffic?" Then, I ask if the pain feels stable or if it's rising or easying up, if it comes and goes, etc. Because, while the theory is that since pain is subjective, we will all say what the pain is like for us, given an objective scale; in reality, this might be true but one must add that it's also a way for people to communicate and this is never objective but full of pre-understandings. Like, what symptomes one felt last time one was in horrible pain, "now I don't have those so it can't be as bad". Or, like you said, "nothing's broken or visibly wrong, so I must be under a 7". Or, "I'm really good at dealing with pain, so I'm not going to make this out to be unmanagable, it's a 3." You wouldn't know how common it is for patients to say a low number, but then adding "And I'm not a whimper, I'm really good at dealing with pain, so if I say 3, others might say 6..!" And it's like "Well, I'm not comparing to anyone else, I'm not even comparing to you being your normal healthy self. It's just you and now. So what is it in your body, right now?" To understand the kind of pain, one can ask how the sensation feels (burning, stabbing, pulsating, and so on), this can help us understand what is happening and what might help; but also help the person psychologically deal with the pain, and thus psychosomatically ease the pain a bit, in some cases. If we feel seen and heard and also if we feel like we are in control - we can name the pain - we are generally tremendously better at handling it. And if the pain can ease just a little, it's worth alot. The more we can relax, usually the better the analgesics work when we get them.
I've had a number of abscesses, and they've always given me antiobiotics fairly quickly. Though I'm also so well experienced with these damn infections by now that I know exactly when one has gotten too shitty to drain and deal with myself. Last abscess was on my chin. Drained it, and discovered that it had formed a nasty pocket. Went to a vårdcentral and walked out with a compliment on the nice draining job and an antibiotic prescription within 15 minutes.
From the story you're telling I think your dentist friend is the cog that broke the machinery in this case. Based on how complicated the surgery was to begin with they should have kicked your butt over to the emergency room right away when there was a problem. Not Folktandvården or any other wait and see solution. The idea is you don't get antibiotics until you need it and early signs of infection would be an excellent reason to get on antibiotics. I'm glad your other friend drove you there later, it would have been miserable to use public transportation in that state. Glad you're feeling better and hope it keeps improving!
Double hip replacements and one knee recap. Cost each total 40USD. Turned out excellent home after two days. They even offer three course meals now in D region.
Good you came in in time cause sepsis is so painful and take such a long time to come back from. I hope you get 100 % healthy after this, it sounds a little bit rough that you had to do this without any opioids but i think you would have got it if you insisted on it.
I have experience in healthcare in Thailand. However, not from dental care. But the biggest difference I experienced from the healthcare in Thailand was that the most important thing for them was to make money! The problem in this case was the stomach. A common symptom for me as I have Crohn's. But in Thailand they didn't listen to what I said about my past experiences. Instead, they would do all the research on and try to reinvent the wheel. Finally I gave up and went to a cheaper state hospital, stood in line for about 3 hours at the emergency room. Tell the doctor what medicines I wanted to make the journey home to Sweden 24 hours later. Also, I want to remember that I had to pay some money under the table to get these medications without any major examination. Then I was able to receive care at home in Sweden. Away good but at home best. I think people will always think so. Regardless of where you come from, you will to some extent carry what you are used to.
Tuition is free in Sweden, and becoming a medical Doctor has some of the highest pre-requisites out of any program. If somebody wants to make money in Sweden, they do not spend 6+ years to become a Doctor, and then additional years to become a specialist. They go into finance, business or even certain engineering fields. That is to say, those who become nurses and doctors do so out of a genuine desire to work in healthcare and to take care of people. I think this is what contributes to your positive experiences with Swedish healthcare. It comes from the social conditions and what the government provides in terms of opportunities for people to seek their own calling. The issue we are facing in Sweden on the other hand is an aging population in general, and especially an aging healthcare workforce, and this is problematic the day the current workforce retires. We're already seeing huge issues with this in psychiatric care manifesting in long queue times for example. Same situation within other parts of public sector as well, from teachers to social workers.
Exactly the same thing happened to my hubby some yrs ago. He has a fear for dentist and got an infection with pus flowing from the jaw. I could not get him to the dentist but one morning he woke up with sepsis stripes down against the chest at the heart side so he took the car to our hospital (with a dentist emergency unit). His CRP was so high that he was immediately put in a bed a got 3 bags of fluid with strong multi antibiotics. He rang home to tell me he wasn´t coming home that night and then he passed out. The doc said that if he had came one hour later he might have ended up at intensive care. One should be careful when things happen in the mouth, a lot of nasty bacterias in there... A relative still have problems with the jaws, could not open the mouth because of an infected tooth and the could not get rid of it because of the infection and later because the locked jaws. Two yrs now, pain, dizziness, bad sleep and still can´t work full time. Take care of your teeth folks!
Swede here. I had a nasty staph infection in my thumb (looked like something from an Alien movie, went all the way down to the bone), had to spend a couple-three nights in the hospital, IV antibiotics, surgery and after care. All in all I think it cost me like $50. However, after living in the Neterhlands, I still have to say I prefer their system of privatized health insurance.
i'm from sweden and this summer I've got the same first reactions from removing my wisdom-teeth, as your first reactions. The dentist said that my reaction was rare. She gave me penicilin. and a couple of days later I slowly got better. the dentist told me to to go to the er if the penicilin didn't work. I told myself that it would never go that far,. The pencilin did it for me ,but I had problem opning mouth for a couple of month. but no infection. listening to you I understand the seriousness of teeth problem.
Interesting! I’m 60 and recently had my first surgery and first night in a hospital here in Sweden. Found all the nurses and doctors I met very kind and professional. Paid 130 SEK for staying one night (13 USD).
Yeah, I paid 460 for 2 trips to the ER and two nights at medicinska avdelningen. Like sure, as a student, it is a bit tough, but it's less than 500 at the end of the day (prior to ER I also spent another 800 on my VC because they kept sending me home and asking me to come back). I have now changed VC.
@@becurious2000 It doesn't cover toothcare though. Among swedes we all know that how to tell if you're poor. Is the state of your teeth. Fixing a hole in one tooth is about 10.000 sek in sweden, about 1000 USD. The only time toothcare gets covered is with cases like yours. That need a jaw/nose/ear doctor & the ER.
Högkostnadsskydd = Out-of-pocket maximum: Most commonly used in healthcare, it refers to the maximum amount a patient pays out of their own pocket over a certain period (e.g., one year) before insurance covers the remaining costs. Raw translation of the word "högkostnadsskydd" is "high-cost protection".
I have prophylactic antibiotics whenever I have any dental work done due to Rheumatic fever as a child. I am now 69. Greetings from South Africa 🇿🇦🇿🇦🇿🇦
Dependency and resistance are two things that we want to avoid as much as possible. But in some cases antibiotics is given as a prevntative measure. During childbirth…I think.
There is a BIG reason antibiotic and pain killers are last resort, this is because the more used in general of antibiotics the more resistant antibiotics bacteria develops to the point our antibiotics will stop working, as a nurse you should know this. Also much painkillers drugs are very addicted so you can end up become drug addicted.
Never take drugs unless you really need.
Yes of course I know this. In fact, I was a prescriber in the USA. The point I am making is we should use good stewardship when prescribing. Antibiotic and pain medicine withholding is not the answer either. A balanced approach is needed. Note this quote from a study "On the other hand, withholding antibiotics might potentially carry risks and reduced antibiotic prescribing in general practice is associated with a small increase in complications such as treatable pneumonia and peritonsillar abscess (National Library of Medicine, 2020)." There are many other such references that point out that the answer to dealing with antibiotic resistance is not so simple. There is a lot of nuance to this problem. I saw another study done in the Netherlands that showed worsening of dementia symptoms of patients that did not receive antibiotic treatment compared to those that received treatment. The issue is more complex than just not giving or giving antibiotics. I have been on antibiotics now for 6 weeks which has increased my risk for complications and resistance to antibiotics which could have been reduced by a prophylactic treatment of a few days. I may now have long term damage to my jaw due to the inflammation I got, I missed many days of work, used a lot of resources that could have gone to help other people, ect. I work in a department here in Sweden that is NOT afraid of prescribing antibiotics for those who need it but the physicians I work with are extremely competent and confident. I can say for a fact that they are excellent stewards of pain management and antibiotic prescribing. I myself am reluctant to take antibiotics but I know when it is necessary. I have had more people coming out of the wood work lately in Sweden that I know personally who have had similar issues from getting similar procedures performed on them in Sweden which is in stark contrast to the mostly good anecdotal reports I am hearing from acquaintances who had their wisdom teeth removed in the USA. The problem is we had for years had prescriptions written for things that were viral rather than bacterial as well as the fact that patients would stop taking the antibiotics because they felt better even though they had not completed the prescribed regimen. This definitely needed to be addressed but I fear the pendulum has swung too far the other way.
In sweden we don't have a big problem with antibiotic resistance, but there is a reason for it, in countries with more open views on antibiotics there are also bigger issues with resistance and I have seen what the result of that can be so I have mixed feelings about our stance but it is aimed for what is best for the community and there is a fine line to walk
I have a friend from the Pakistani elite (his dad was leading their creation of their nuclear weapons).
He lives here in Sweden and is highly educated.
He often makes outrageous claims about Pakistani mentality and science. The surprising thing is that I thought he was a fool but learned that he was a smart guy with shitty information.
He said that he got a shot every year. This was some type of peneceline that was supposed to kill everything bad that he had in his body.
I told him that no such drug existed and did my best to find evidence for my claim. I quickly learned that it does exist.
In Sweden it is used if your bowels burst or if you get an injury that is likely to kill you because of the massive amount of bacteria added to your system. In Pakistan they give this stuff to everyone that is rich/important or the offspring of such a person.
My reality isn't the same as theirs.
Everyone have a perfect hindsight but everything actually comes from statistics. Learn honest statistics to understand the problem.
and thats a problem, dosctors do not take into account - diets (very antibiotic reach food, even if it is different antibiotic) and foreigners. Basiclaly foreigners are treated wrongly in Scandivania - the doctors do no care they can bring different types of diseases or be ready exposed to some antibiotics. I remember being prescribed drug that was withdrawn 20 years ago I an country where I got sick...
Swedens stance on antibiotics causes people who for one or another reason do not want or have the possibility to go to the doctor to not get any help, its like they live in a time before the invention of these medicines.
That is how I have seen this subject play out in real life.
In many instances Swedish society threat its citizen like little children.
Hmm... I'm from Finland, and while we don't issue antibiotics that much. Probably in case of something like this, I would 100% except some, I had root sawed off as part of root canal operation that was infected, it was small surgery, and I definitely got some antibiotics. And actually the infection was pretty much gone after root canals that were done before actual surgery. So really those antibiotics were for the surgery.
Honestly antibiotic resistance is mostly coming from farming and very excessive use in some non western countries anyways. I don't think it should be issue at all if you are issued few antibiotics after surgery.
@@mukkaar like I said I do have mixed feelings about it. Here I would think most cases are imported. I work in an animalhospital and we try to be restrictive as well but within reason. Anyhow howdy neighbour.
As a nurse myself in Sweden I appreciate you sharing your perspective, thank you.
Wish you recover well✨️
Thank you so much!
i'm so sorry you had to go through that, but I am glad you were here in Sweden and able to experience the wonderful healthcare. I moved to Stockholm in the beginning of the 90s from Los Angeles. I didn't think much about the healthcare system when I came here but now that I am in my 70s I am so grateful for the wonderful, professional, and affordable care my Swedish husband and I receive. We are both very healthy for our age but the times we needed healthcare, its been amazing. I feel blessed to live here. I've heard some of my older Swedish friends say healthcare is not as good as it used to be, and I can't even imagine how it could be any better. I enjoyed your video and think you're a real sweetheart. krya på dig❤
These are the one of the reasons why I think the winner of the general last election in the US will be a disaster if he wants to take, or as he says "replace", away the ACA as he says he wants to do. Greetings from a half-American in nw. Stockholm.
It took a turn for the worse when they started selling out to venture capitalists, unlike the state they have to make a profit. My mother worked at two hospitals here and saw it first hand on both, they cut down staff and investments into new technology to increase profits. So it took longer and longer to get an appointment, they have less time with each patient and they can't offer the same quality as in the past (compared to other countries).
For things less covered like eyes and teeth then Thailand at least used to be popular, the quality is top notch and the price low, so you're basically getting a free vacation for the price. 🌞
Non emergency care is not as good as it used to be.
Here in Sweden they are seriously worried about two things:
1. Antibiotica resistance.
2. Opioid addiction.
A couple of years ago there was a huge issue with Fentanyl Overdoses regarding people who had depressions.
this is mostly the reason for the aversion of prescribing opiod painkillers for Swedish medical society.
The antibiotica resistance is also something that is a massive issue in the World, Especially regarding cattle and live food production.
Sweden is probably the only country who takes this as the serious issue it is, For example Denmark and Germany usually premedicate cattle if only one animal has been sick whils swedish cattle usually gets antibiatoca as a last resort.
This means that the antibiotics are about 80-90% lower than the average eu country if i remember right.
Sadly this has an negative aversion for us regular patients in Sweden when it comes to diseases such as Lyme Disease where many of us have had to travel to Germany and even USA to get adequate treatment.
The there is the fact that our hospitals very much preffer us to cantact them if we have a minor complication rather than prescribe medication or painkillers.
both sides has pros and cons in this regards.
Best regards.
Also i would like to say that Private clinics in Sweden can be a little hit and miss.
Some of them are quite good with highly competent personel, but some are really bad.
Folktandvården are genrally best equipped to handle dental works and the regular specialists on the hospitals like the Dental specialists on Mölndal hospital in Gothenburg are usually the bests in the country.
Often the Specialist Doctors have a privet clinic and work on the regular hospital.
That's why you don't get it at hospitals if it's not really. Reeeeeeally needed.. and extra really needed.😂
@@Swede_4_More_Years i just got information about a 5 hour surgery and i'll only be given alvedon after. this is a surgery that will take up to a year to recover from.
sweden is absurd.
No they just want you to suffer with endless pain.
@warwarneverchanges4937 yeeeeezzzzz we be zufferiiiing..thjis why our land Zweeden is named.
Ohh, be right back, baby need diaper change!
Where wazzz iii...?
Such an excellent account of your horrific ordeal. Hope you make a complete recovery.
I really appreciate that! Every day is better. I have a follow up in two weeks with the jaw surgeon. 2 weeks more of antibiotics. The CT showed ongoing inflammation but that the infection is at bay. The treatment for inflammation is the same as infection... antibiotics. So I am still on Penicillin.
Krya på dig!@@becurious2000
As a swede it's very interesting to hear your story. I hope you get well quick!
I’ve been a patient a lot and have had a bunch of surgeries due to a congenital spinal cord injury. During 3 or 4 hospital stays I’ve been tested for multi resistant bacteria because some other patient was sick and had it. I’ve also had morphine pills and strong pain killers a lot and have felt how easy it would be to slip into an addiction. This is why it’s important not to over medicate.
Jag blev beroende och dricker metadon dagligen jag hoppas att du klarar dig utan men jag måste ha det för min värk samt beroende
@ Det låter hemskt, jag är ledsen att du hamnade i den situationen.
Good to see that you are on your recovery path!! Best of luck!!
I've worked in swedish healthcare, it was very captivating to hear your story. Thank you for the video!
Glad you enjoyed it!
I hope you feel better very soon. I think specialist care and ER care here in Sweden are fantastic. At the base GP level, it's a lottery if you get a good doctor or not. I broke my wrist badly this summer and the ER, surgery and follow up cost the equivalent of approx 70 USD. Thats when you really appreciate the health care system. Take care!
I moved to Sweden from Hungary 2009 as a 19 year-old. I havent had the "chance" to try the Hungarian hospitals as I was young and healthy. But 3 years ago I fell sick and in the hospital in Sweden they discovered colon cancer that had spread to various places in my abdomen. I had an acute surgery first followed by a planned surgery. During the planned surgery they used a method that, as I had heard, doesn't even exist in the USA because it is so expensive. They basically poured warmed cytostatics in the abdomen and sew it up. They then had to poke four holes on the sides of my abdomen to let the cytostatic fluid drain during the following days. The nurses told me that the operation and treatment I got was the toughest that existed and had i been older or less physically fit then it would not have been possible to undergo it as I would have died during the procedure.
Jag hoppas att du blev bättre av den behandlingen. ❤❤❤
As a Spanish person living in Malmö for 18 months and having lived in other countries, I can only say that the Swedish health service is the best I have had the opportunity to try.
Every time I have gone to the hospital I have always felt very well.
I'm so glad you're feeling better, best wishes from Malmö.
Thanks so much!
Not the same as when cysts, and pus is involved, but I didn't get, nor need pain killers when I went through the procedure of getting a titan tooth implant screw. I think it's one of those things where if it turns out that you did need stronger painkillers, and/or antibiotics, you're going to wish you had gotten it from the start, but I presume that they have statistical numbers showing that the majority doesn't actually need it.
I did spend 5 days in the ER after dislocating my shoulder, had 2 surgery's and loads of x-rays and visits to doctor/rehab and such, cost me like $300 for it all (Sweden), and i would agree with not giving antibiotics for everything, resistant bacteria's is a serious threat.
It was interesting to hear your stiry. Very sorry you had to go through all this, but I'm happy you feel better.
Interesting! My grandson has recently had a cyst in his chin, full of inflammation, so he's been operated on, but it has hitherto gone well.
I wish you a quick recovery! Thank you for sharing this story!
I’m really sorry you’ve had to go through this. But it’s also comforting to know that you are well-taken cared of. As someone who has been on the receiving end of emergency care due to an (at that time) unknown tumor (not cancer), I also ended up being one of the odd 0.1% people who got something really rarely and practically unheard of ‘thing’ that is only ever mentioned as ‘possible’ in ‘theory’. It’s easy to look back and think:”they should have done this differently.” When in reality we are the odd ones out in the statistics. We are the exception. I feel you, truly, and all I can really say is that we got some shit luck. I don’t really think anyone did anything wrong here. You and I just happened to be the odd ones out.
Thank you for reminding me that some things can work well here in Sweden. My own experience of healthcare is completely horrible.
The opiod crisis in the US is a big reason why Sweden is so restrictive on pain meds. But I agree with you on the antibiotics, you should have had that from the start.
whole citys lying on the ground or stand like zombies i hope we never get that here in sweden
Sweden wont risk antibiotic immunity.
You should have antibiotics WHEN and IF you have bacterial infection (proven) with serious symptoms. We do not need to develop severe resistance to the antibiotics
Preoperative antibiotics used to be standard in Sweden too, however that has changed due to no proven benefits - higher risk of complications with antibiotics than without.
It's better to be careful with antibiotics, just look at France. 🙈
OMG Brandon you have been though it, glad your getting well, well done to all the Swedish doctors dentist, nurses, they are worth there weight in gold, look after yourself,lots of love from Linda in Scotland xxx💙❤️🩹🇸🇪💊
I've spent a lot of time at Sahlgrenska and Östra in Göteborg. If you are in pain and are admitted, or in the ER, you can ask for a morphine injection and they'll usually do it for you. I had them do that when I was having trouble walking from a joint bleed. (I have hemophilia). I've been here for 18 years now. ;)
(from sweden) I have had my wisdom teeth removed, (also also did upper jaw surgery so I know that world quite well) I did the wisdom teeth surgery in 2 parts, first one side, heal, then the other side. And the second time I got an infection. Didn't have much problem with pain or sickness but I've got prescribed antibiotics. And luckily for me, some hour after I took the antibiotic, I was standing in the bathroom and just pushed at the swollen cheek, and liquid started pouring into my mouth, so I just spit it out and filled my mouth over and over again. I drained the infection by my self. So I guess I was lucky with the complication. I can't imagine pain you must have felt
Hi from Dalarna Sweden.
I had the same problem after impacted wisdom tooth operation. But i had covid so i couldn't get it drained, but i got antibiotics straight away.
But it took me almost 3 weeks before i could open my mouth and eat properly. It was the worst.
Good you are feeling better.
Oh my! Sounds similar to me. Yea I am getting better each day
Good to see that you are doing better - best of luck getting fully well!
They err on the side of caution here in Aotearoa/ New Zealand as well and only prescribe antibiotics as a last resort. They're also cautious over pain relief, especially opioids. I have to say l much prefer our approach and am always shocked when l hear of people from other countries being given antibiotics for viruses, colds and flu and the like. I would lose faith in my Dr if he even suggested such a thing.
You know you are so right. The two big factors that stand out to me for antibiotic resistance is giving them for things that are viral which I am proud to say in the USA I think most newer trained healthcare workers understand and the other being patients stopping the medication before it’s finished just because they feel better. I think we are learning now we should not be afraid of antibiotics but use them cautiously. In my case we are learning I should have gotten them right from the beginning based on the nature of my surgery. In fact the CT shows no infection now this week but still inflammation of which the treatment is the same for … antibiotics. Apparently I had ongoing inflammation because so much bone was removed and when the antibiotics were stopped it came back. I see this a lot with our patients with foot wounds. The antibiotics really help a lot in many cases. The key is having a knowledgeable and competent provider who is up to date with current trends and is not ruled by fear to give patients appropriate care. Patients should not suffer because a provider is to afraid to do the right thing for the patient as an individual. I am proud to say the physicians I work with are quite competent here in Sweden in my department and do an excellent job.
@becurious2000 Well said. I nearly had a conniption (such a lovely old word, l can't resist using it) when a friend offered another friend some of their "left over" antibiotics. I couldn't believe anyone could be that stupid and it took me quite some time to explain that they were actually contributing to the breeding of antibiotic resistant strains. It sounded dreadful and l hope you're on top of it now.
@@nikiTricoteuse I love that word! 😂 my grandma used to say “I am going to have a conniption fit” 😂
@@nikiTricoteuse Back in 2001 when I was in American Samoa they had a bucket with antibiotics behind the reception. Handed it out like candy.
@@Dönaellerdö 😱
Me too I'm very satisfied with the care they gave me one year ago.
I was standing on my porch watching Aurora when I felt this indescribable pain in my chest, it was so bad that I collapsed when I came to my senses I went to my neighbour because I thought I couldn't manage to make a call when I came to the end of my porch I got the second attack and collapsed again, the third time I had just knocked on my neighbour's door. I just remember him shouting to his wife to call an ambulance. They drove me to Gällivare 100 km at the hospital they discovered that I had an aneurysm and dissection of my aorta so they decided to fly me to Umeå, (500km). When I was waiting for the next ambulance to drive me to the plane I had a stroke during the operation in Umeå (8,5 hours) I got pneumonia and my kidneys and liver started to strike, and for the first time in my life, I gained weight (12 kg) due to my kidneys not working, thanks to dialysis that went away almost just as fast. After just over 2 weeks at the ICU they drove to the airport and flew me (300km), to another ICU near Luleå where I spent the next 15 days, another ambulance and another flight (250km) I was back in Gällivare spent just a month in a normal care unit and then they drove me back To Jokkmokk where I spent just 2 days in the hospital. My 2 sisters and husbands and my brother came from the Netherlands to stay by my side and even though I don't remember anything they said it felt so amazingly comforting to have them there, they told me later that they experienced the care I got as even better than in the Netherlands (they have had kids on the ICU). There was in my case never any discussion about antibiotics or drugs they have been giving me different forms of anti-biotics the first week because I was critical and then they just gave what they thought would do the job. I don't remember much from the first 2 weeks other than that I felt so good to have my family and kids by my side and all the most wonderful drugs they gave me (I'm an experienced user, was an addict on and off for 30 years, clean for 10 years now). So Yeah I am very grateful for the excellent care I received the only negative thing I can say is that the food in Gällivare hospital was horrible. But the staff was so incredibly nice that even though it's a year later I'm still touched when I think about them.
Oh my goodness! What a story! Thanks for sharing! I am so glad you are with us.
happy to here you doing better know!! that sounds scary!!
Hope you are doing well today! All the best!
Had myself an disection of the internal carotid artery, the pain I felt and before anyone believed me (days) was the most difficult time of my life. This was at the age of 30 and my wife in 8 months expecting our first. All went well, after 300 pills of blood medicin I am now 40 and feeling stronger then ever.
Sometimes life gives you a second chance
@ whoa 😳 what an experience. Glad you are doing well!
@@becurious2000 Likewise, and a speedy recovery!
Thanks for the video. It's interesting to hear a foreigners perspective. I've never had tooth surgery but I did have brain surgery and only had paracetamol and ibuprofen as pain killers after the surgery day. When I had gallbladder surgery I got morphine to take home but didn't use it. I can't remember the last time I had to take antibiotics. I think it's smart to be restrictive with prescribing antibiotics but you should absolutely get it when you need it.
Thanks for sharing your experience with us. Hearing how, in the midst of your own pain and suffering, you managed to also think about the wellfare of other people (by not wanting to overburden the healthcare system) is so heartwarming. Shows what a deeply considerate and trusting person you are.
As a farmer with livestock here in Sweden I've come to understand a few things about antibiotic resistance and why we in Sweden are so restrictive and careful.
First of all antibiotic restistance in the West is driven by a combination of factors, both over- and misuse in the medical profession and over- and misuse in livestock production. The routine use of antibiotics (ab) in livestock is often to promote growth and prevent disease as most livestock (that is not out on pasture) is kept in overcrowded and unhygeinic conditions. Resistant bacteria develop and spread to humans through direct contact with animals, consumtion of undercooked (and even sometime well cooked) meat that's been contaminated and can carry resistant genes if cross-contamination occurs in food processing or preparation (ie foodborne transmission), and environmental exposure (water, soil). For example, manure from livestock can contaminate water and soil, spreading resistant bacteria that can enter the human food supply through crops irrigated with conamtinated water or through direct contact with the environment.
In the U.S. and Europe concerns have been growing over the potential of "superbugs" originating in agricultural settings to spill over to the human population. Overall, the overuse of antibiotics in livestock farming significantly inreases the number of rb in the environment and human population, making it more challenging to treat infections and increases the burden on public health systems worldwide. Reducing unnecessary anbtibiotic use in agriculture is a key part of combating antibiotic resistance.
It's very important that people understand that this is one of the prices we have to pay for CHEAP ABUNDANT FOOD. Keeping animals confined in small spaces increases the profitability of production but it's patients like yourself as well as the wider community and society that is paying a hefty price. If food was more expensive and animals could be kept in better conditions this issue would probably not be as dire as it currently it. In Sweden it's not allowed to give antibiotics to animals for growth or pre-emptivly to combat disease so we are trying to do our part. But this is a worldwide problem and considering an estimated 40% of all food produced is wasted and thrown away it seems like such an ineffective and wasteful agrifood system we’ve created for ourselves.
Glad you're feeling better!!
I always enjoy your feedback and your channel! I like watching your channel to help me improve my Swedish. I am hoping long term to follow your path and live off the land... sort of a homestead type of life. Thanks again for the nice comments and information!
@ best of luck with that. Compared to the rest of Western Europe Sweden is pretty affordable if you’re looking to find a house and some land (at least in the north). And with you background as a nurse I’m sure you’ll be able to find work near a city or larger town.
@ 🙏🏻
Good luck with your recovery!!! I honestly feel that for me pain meds help the healing process by reducing the anxiety of having so much pain.
yes pain management is an important part of the healing process too.
In Swedish healthcare you are NEVER a "customer" you are a patient. Nothing else. And we care for our patients
I have no idea why this video was recommended to me but I’m glad I saw it! :)
I hope you get better soon and thank you for sharing
😊
As a tourist in New York, we got very inadequate healthcare. The Swedish doctors couldn't believe that they prescribed such a low dose of antibiotics for an ear infection and as a result, my sister partially lost hearing on one of her ears.
Oh my 😟
Those red streaks will get you help every time🙈 I had some tiny little wound/scratch on my toe that got infected once I couldn't wear my shoe, I called the vårdcentral, they let me see the nurse. As soon as she saw my foot she ran and got a doctor. Got antibiotics immediatly.
So glad your doing better, what an ordeal.
🙏🏻
I also experienced being denied antibiotics in Sweden but the nature of it all with the resistance build-up it's really hard to know what's correct and not. In your case it was obviously a bad choice but in mine I have no idea, I've not been close to dying from it or getting seriously hurt.
My aunt's husband became a drug addict after getting pain medicine for his back. He got their whole family deep in dept and she had to pay off for years after divorcing him, living on just the very basics with the kids - not to mention the human suffering. Perhaps your willingness to tough it out and general bravery made them think you'd be fine without heavier meds. Addiction is not a complication you want even for your worst enemy.
I agree. About 20 years ago l was offered the cool drugs but refused and was hence given A LOT OF THEM, so I could use them if needed.
I don't know how other people react in this situation but I took everything I was given. Who am I to disagree with the experts.
I hear you.I have a friend who got addicted and ended up in jail for stealing drugs from his patients. He had never had pain meds, hurt his shoulder in a skiing accident, and was prescribed the same medication you give to cancer patients- way too strong of medication.
Sweden is very restrictive prescribing opioids/morphine when not necessary. They only do it to those who other pain meds doesn’t work anymore but that is still very controlled and restricted.
I have had very stopping, potentially addictive pain medication because I was in severe pain. When I was no longer in pain I stopped the medication. I am not addicted.
Pain medication needs to be given cautiously but we must not demonise the medication and stop those who need it from being prescribed or.
@@becurious2000 I found this very interesting, as a chronic pain patient in Sweden. Thanks for sharing your experience.
I think when it comes to pain killers, Sweden has gone too far in the restriction. I've had chronic pain for over a decade, and been tossed around like a hot potato in health care. Even the pain specialists are so restrictive, I've tried so many medications with horrible side effects (anti-depressants, anti-epileptics, allergy meds... Anything but actual painkillers!) for a decade and only got worse. Finally, last year, when my pain was so bad I couldn't sleep or eat and the health care kept stalling and pushing my appointment forward, I went private. And got adequate pain relief for the first time, after seeking help since I was 14. It literally took 20 years. The first 10 was just to get a diagnosis, and even then I didn't get any help.
I would have thought that the pain specialist at the hospital, who'd been putting me off for 6 months, offered a morphine plaster in the meantime that made me horribly sick, would have been thrilled! After 20 years, I finally had adequate pain relief, that's cause for celebration?! Nope. He just said that Swedish pain specialist don't belive there's any evidence that cannabis has any pain relieving effects. 🤦🏼♀️
Hope you feel better soon. proud of our health care in Sweden even though I think we should invest more in i. Feel better!
Wow I am so sorry I have never heard about anything this bad. Taking out bad teeth/cheeck situations is truly never fun.... I never had a cyst but I had a tooth that had grown into my cheechbone so they didn´t really want to touch that either because of the nerv damage. I am surprised about you not getting antibiotics earlier... My tooth was removed after becoming bad again after 4 antibiotic cures. I lost sensation in my whole left side of the cheek and my lip for almost 6 months after the surgery and now 2 years after all sensation is finally back. So it can take a really long time for the nerves to heal. Cannot imagine the horror you have experienced. Hope you heal fast! I
I’m so glad to hear your sensation returned, glad for you (of course!) but also to hear there is hope should that happen to me since I’m in a similar situation (wisdom teeth roots too close to the nerve to remove safely). I hope you recover fully!
Earlier this year i had a wisdom tooth surgery. My dentist recommended me to have one quite soon even though it did not bothered me. Couse when you are younger you heal a lot faster. Im 34. So i did. I did not have any cyst nor pain before but they wanted that thing out. It was pushing on its neighbor and caused damaged in that one, later had a root canal on that one. At the same time I took blood thinners so trying to stop the bleeding afterwards was annoying, but i got there. I find it strange that they did not recommend doing anything in the US.
Before the surgery and after i took some special mouth wash to clean the mouth with. For pain they usually recommended Alvedon and Ipren but as i was on blood thinners i could not take Ipren. They prescribed me some morphin which i did not use since i was okey with the Alvedon (paracetamol).
I feel you! I am a German who has been living in Sweden for almost 11 years. I have had unbelievably bad experiences with dentists. The first dentist I went to for a root canal treatment did an unbelievably bad job. It turned out that she had treated the root canals incorrectly and a lot more. She is no longer licensed. I then went to another dentist and this one also made it worse, so that I had a large abscess. In the end I begged for him to remove the tooth because it was unbearable.
After that I did a lot of research and looked for a good dentist. Finally I found a private clinic with a German-Swedish dentist. Of course a private clinic is very expensive, but it was worth it to me. In the end three additional teeth had to be removed due to previous treatment errors. I needed four dental bridges in total, which ended up costing me almost 100k SEK. I am happy and was lucky to find a very professional dentist in the end. After the operations, he also prescribed me suitable and effective painkillers (paracetamol-codeine mixture).
I hope you feel well again soon and that everything will be just a faint memory in the end.
Wow my goodness! What a story! That was a lot of money you had to spend. Sorry you had to go through that
Dentist Treatment in Sweden is a joke and super expensive.
Omg, very sorry for what you have been through 😢 very happy it seems to be better
Thanks. 🙏🏻 yea it’s going the right direction now
US here, with a shoulder replacement. My dentist always prescribes antibiotics prior to and after any invasive procedure, so any open oral surgery. Where I live you would have been hospitalized with IV antibiotics with those symptoms.
Interesting difference in praxis compared to Finland: I have just had an artificial root put in last Monday, and I have still one and a half days left of the routine course of antibiotics (Kefexin) that the dental surgeon prescribed.
I did have some swelling and pain, but otherwise things seem to be going well.
Best of luck for your healing!
Oh my god...I can't even imagine the astronomical levels of hell you've been through! I'm glad they kept working with you and they were nice to you on top of that. Its good insight to hear about your experience with the healthcare system. I understand not everyone's experience is the same, but it was something I was wondering. The closest thing I got to a medical related procedure while in Sweden was getting my first tattoo and yes they do take being sterile very seriously. Which I am happy about.The guy worked fast did a phenomenal job and didn't feel any pain. However, I hope you are feeling better and definitely liked and subscribed!
Thanks!!! 🙏🏻
Glad you are better now! What a story 😱
As a Swede with ties to the US I found this video very interesting. I'm glad you are feeling better and will get better still!
Thank you!
Norway is the same. You need to have an arm almost cut of in Norway. They are very scared for the opioid situation from the US come to Scandinavia.
I traveld to the US, and we lost our flight, and I had calculated wrong how many pain meds I had brought with me, so the hotel called a doctor and I got a opineinm,ent and it was no biggie to get some help. Quick and easy.
Another time I had pneumonia and all I wanted was some antibiotics fort and keep on going for my vacation in New York! But they kept me over two nights and I had 8 different doctors coming to se me. Felt like I was a golden ticket for them to squeeze out all the insurance money!
We don’t have as much resistens like MRAS as other countries. Sweden saw a problem early.
I hope you feel better. Thats a horrific story! The system in Sweden is great. 👍🏽
Your video was recommended to me by the algorithm, but I have had lots of experience with the Swedish healthcare system due to a genetic heart condition that I have that was actually discovered while I've lived here. This year is my 20th anniversary of living in Sweden.
About 8 years ago, it was discovered through a routine physical exam that I have an AV Block III and had to get a pacemaker in. From the moment it was discovered to when I was sent to the emergency room, I got excellent care and it all happened very quickly. They even sent me on an over hour long ambulance ride to another hospital to get an MRI! They wanted to get a good image of my heart before the implant. They do NOT play around with heart conditions! Fast forward to today and it's progressed to me now having dilated cardiomyopathy. My cardiologist just couldn't understand how a woman my age (early 50s) could have these issues and ordered genetic testing for me. Turns out I have a laminen mutation which is the cause of all of this. There's nothing that can be done. So, now they have me on 5 different meds and I had my second pacemaker implant (CRT-P) in 2022.
I cannot say enough good things about the care I have gotten here. It's been amazing and I've paid next to nothing out of pocket for it! I would absolutely be bankrupt if this had all happened in the US.
I'm realy surprised you didn't get antibiotics when you had the wisdom teeth surgery. Besides the pacemaker surgery, I've also had a minor gyno type surgery and they put me on antibiotics to prevent any infections that could occur in both cases. I would think they would have considered wisdom teeth surgery to be similar, but I guess not? Really sorry you had to suffer through that infection!
Thanks for sharing! Yea I am so glass they take heart issues seriously. I had heart trouble this summer after my dad passed away. They got right on it! I am super grateful for that.
From Norway here, and I really think you should have had painkillers, but I guess you have to actively ask for it. My husband had a minor surgery on his hand, and got it automatically.
I experienced sepsis myself 9 years ago, and have my own harrowing experience from it, mostly that I was sent home with 2 boxes of antibiotics instead of hooking me up with IV immidiately, and 9 years later I still have ME from it.
I also have experience from giving birth in the US, and in that particular case, I was glad to receive care in the US. Norway is really really big on natural deliveries, sometimes to the detriment to the mothers health, and in the US I had a C-section, before it was allowed to go really bad. I appreciate that so much.
Overall, I'm pro healthcare for all/socialized medicine, but there can always be improvements made, for sure.
Hope for your speedy recovery!
That was such a horrible story. I have not heard of anything like it before.
Thank you for sharing!
I hope that you get well again quite soon. Much love. 🤗
Thank you so much!
In Finland as I got taken wisdom tooth out I did get Penicillin and pain killers.. Paracetamol and Ibuprofen .. both for a couple of days. It's really hard to get strong opioid based pain killers here.. and generally it's not needed. I have some stronger ones (even those are not opioid based) that I got for my neck pain that was pushing some nerve and radiating to my arm.
I think it's kinda standard if you have bigger operation in your mouth the antibiotics are quite important since you have a lot of bacteria and growing grounds for them in the mouth.
The second time I had to take out wisdom tooth from the other side it was a faster procedure .. no surgery, just pulled out so I think it was only pain killers then.
Seems pretty reasonable 👍🏻 yea the mouth holds a lot of bacteria as you say . 👍🏻
Agreed. After a significant tooth-related surgery I had done about 15 years ago I was prescribed both antibiotics and morfine to lessen the extreme pain. I was glad, because it really helped, but on the other hand I'm also not a proponent of handing out heavily addictive drugs 😅
None the less, I think our system works well for what it is and the tax money we put into it, and if even more funds were directed that way I think it would only get better. But I don't think the healthcare here is any better than in Finland, Germany, France, Spain or elsewhere. It's just about pros and cons essentially 😊
I'm not in the dental field, but I am an infection biology masters student here in sweden. From what I've been taught so far, the true is that more and more bacteria will become resistant to more and more antibitics as it's a trend that's been seen with many bacteria, especially for bacteria that are commonly associated with many different infections. For example staphylococcus aureus is a common bacteria in the micro flora in multiple tissues on us humans, but a smaller portion of the species have become penicilin resistant making an infection that used to only occur as an effect of something else and was easy to treat extremely difficult to get rid of
What you say is true. This situation has sent me down the rabbit hole of reading through a lot of the research on this matter. What I am seeing is pretty much in line with what you are saying with a caveat. According the a lot of the research articles I have found, there are also risk associated with "antibiotic avoidance" including serious complications. I think what I am seeing here is the application of the 80 percent on the 20 percent. In other words, what is good for the 80 percent group gets applied to the other 20 percent of the population that it is not appropriate for. (80 and 20 percent are arbitrary numbers I am using metaphorically to illustrate a point).So in my case, I would have been in the so called 20 percent group but got "standardized care" which was not optimal in my case. I fear this is a problem not just in Sweden but world wide as many times doctors are so focused on treating patients based on standardized guidelines rather than treating patients as individuals. The standards are a protection and helpful but one should not be so reliant and them that they lose critical thinking skills. One thing I learned when I became a prescriber in Texas was, that when a patient presents to you with symptoms, you generally think of the typical causes for their symptoms all the while being cognizant that maybe 1 out of 5 people with those symptoms have it for another reason. I think it is a very complex issue especially when considering oral surgery. The mouth is a very dirty place and it is very difficult to keep clean after surgery. There are known risks associated with bacteria from the teeth getting into the blood stream and migrating somewhere else. By withholding antibiotics in my case to prevent resistance we have now increased my risk for antibiotic resistance as now I have been on 5 weeks of antibiotics and have damage to my jaw from the infection which is going to take a long time to heal. I think the key is good prescribing stewardship rather than just a treating every patient the same. Possibly we could have reduced my risk for antibiotic resistance and complications by having a milder prescription for a few days as opposed to weeks or months on two different antibiotics.
20:50 This is something Swedish healthcare really needs to work on. Sending people home with "call us if it gets worse" is seemingly not good enough. I've heard this time and again, people being told that they should have come back in. People are not doctors, some will soldier through after being sent home, against their own judgement, a doctor sent them home in the first place, after all. I wonder what, if there's any, evidence we have for the current state of affairs. Maybe people are even worse at making judgement calls if they are given criteria from their doctors.
As for geting pain meds, it can be extra difficult for people with ASD. Communicating levels of pain and discomfort seems to be more difficult and seems to be taken less seriously. That's also something I hear a lot. Clear, firm, maybe even blunt verbal communication seems to be the key.
Good points
I broke a rib. They sent me home the day after and told me to come back in if I needed. As a Swede I knew that meant "call 1177". When you call 1177, you give them all your symptoms, and they will tell you if you need to go back to the hospital or not.
I don't remember what pain meds I got, just that they didn't work and that I couldn't drive a car while taking them.
It's also a generational thing. Boomers _really_ don't want to be a "nuisance" to the point of being a risk to themselves. And it's almost impossible to get them to do something against the doctors orders/recommendations. (I'm generalizing of course.)
My dad is a perfect example. He's been on an antihistamine for some nose issues for at least 6 years by now. It was supposed to treat his symptoms in a couple of weeks but it took 3 years. I've tried to get him to at least _entertain_ the idea that his recovery had nothing to do with the antihistamin but he can't stop clinging to "the doctor said I should take this" so he won't even bring it up with a doctor now🤦♀
@ very interesting 🤔
What is ASD? I don't like anachronyms!
I had 4 horribly impacted wisdom teeth out when I was 17 years old. We didn't mess around and procrastinate because the teeth were "stable." After hearing this story, I'm glad I got them out ASAP.
My experience is that they do prescribed pain killers with codein or something similar after you have this kind of pain. I've never been denied heavy pain killers if needed. Antibiotics though, yes, we're careful with that.
Whoah.. That's really unfortunate. Here I live in Sweden you probably would have gotten IV antibiotics over two days at a hospital ward for that sunday picture, in my experience. Glad you're feeling better, and what an experience you've had! Best wishes!
On pain meds I agree with the swedish routine, unless absolutely necessary which it seems like it was in your case. On profylactic antibiotics I think it's standard for procedures, and I think it should be for dental procedures too, to avoid stuff like this happening.
Glad you’re feeling better. I’ve had both surgery, pulled wisdom teeth and probably had work done on EVERY tooth. Never happened to me. 😶 Take care!
Hope you get better soon.
You should have called 1177 to get advice. Even if you are a nurse it is always better to have another person deal with something like this. They will also call the ER so they now that you are coming. They also call for the ambulans if needed.
Ulla 🌷🌷🌷
Sweden's out-of-pocket maximum for doctors' visits and medication is $140?! That part of Sweden's health care beats the USA's by leaps and bounds!
Yup! I am hearing it varies by region of the country a little but that’s my cost here where I am.
I’m English and I’m surprised about that too but for a different reason. We don’t pay anything to see a doctor, for a doctor home visit or for a hospital visit or drugs prescribed in hospital. It’s covered by taxes which are not as high as in Sweden.
@juliebrooke6099 do you have to pay anything for tests like CT scans? I live in the USA, and my #1 complaint is having to pay hundreds of dollars in insurance copayments for diagnostic tests and procedures like colonoscopies. Insurance companies should at least cover testing at 100%. It's inhumane to charge people just to find out if they have something serious going on.
@ ,no you don’t but your family doctor has to request the test or procedures. You can’t order them yourself.
@juliebrooke6099 Our primary care doctor has to order the tests, too. There are a few private companies that provide the scans, but of course, they're very expensive. People go to the emergency department at hospitals in hopes of getting a scan so they can be billed for it later, and that drives up hospital costs for everyone, but I understand why they do it.
Across Europe there's a wide spectrum of practices on antibiotics and painkillers. I had a surgery in Greece and got IV antibiotics preventatively. Broken wrist + some titan screws and a plate. My doctor argued with SOS International, that did not want to cover the expence of extra hospital stays. In Sweden I would have been sent home. But Greece has EU:s worst record of deaths by multi resistance infections, so I'm happy I was out of there without any infection. Painkillers was restricted though. The first two nights I had to beg for a shot to be able to sleep.
Back in Sweden I've had two orthopedic surgeries. Definitely no antibiotics. After orthopedic surgery screwing together a fractured ancle I got Oxycodone for a few weeks, and thereafter Paracetamol.
Interesting to hear. One thing I am proud of in Texas was pain management. If it got to be too complicated and we had concerns, we could consult the palliative pain management team and they were extremely good at their job.
You truly and genuinely are one in a million if we listen to that surgeon... since NOBODY before had serious issues with his surgery.... THEN SUDDENLY you pop in from the USA to prove him wrong 100% ??!!
Thus, if they ever need a spokesperson for "What Could Possibly Go Wrong" then you are a superstar.
Always have dental work done early in the week, If there are any complications you have the rest of the week to have your dentist look at it, before they bugger off for the weekend and leave you in the hands of the public system. I learnt that the hard way.
I agree 100 %
I got prescribed Citodon when I had a wisdom tooth pulled in Stockholm, no questions asked. Got complications after so it was nice to have.
That’s great! That’s the pain medicine I eventually got . It was just the right dose 👍🏻
@@becurious2000 If you had asked for it when they did the removal, I doubt they would have refused. It is quite common to get something after that, but, alas, people do have different pain tolerances, and they don't want to prescribe opoids if they do not need to. Usually "Can I get something for the pain?" suffices :O
I'm surprised. I thought our healthcare system had collapsed way more than what you described. Your experience sounds like what it used to be like 20-30 years ago when I was a kid. Can't say I've had any good experiences with our healthcare in a long time and I kind of gave up on the system when I had tonsillitis a few years ago.
I sought medical care after 3 weeks, they sent me home without proper examination - it was at the "jour" (for non-Swedes, jour is like when another company runs healthcare during after-hours in place of the regular one) after regular hours.
After that, I endured for another 3 weeks but at that point, I was unable to talk and had to push air out in order to make sounds. I called the medical advice service and they said I should go see a doctors again, so I did. After seeing a doctor, I was prescribed a 10 day antibiotics cure but didn't fully recover. On the 10th day, I called the medical advice service once again and they said I should go see a doc at the "jour" in the evening and once I was there, they examined me and concluded I still had a bacterial infection and sent me home without treatment.
At that point, I had been ill for 2 months already and I became completely disillusioned with society and just lost hope entirely. In total, I had pain in my throat and cough for 10 months straight and gave up on our wellfare system and especially the healthcare as a whole. I'm a native Swedish person and my ancestors have been Swedish on both sides for about 10 generations.
I must say though, I am actually genuinely happy to hear that you had a good experience with our healthcare despite the complications! Also, that consideration of not wanting to burden the system and being reluctant to call an ambulance - that sounds very "Swedish" to me. I've noticed people have gotten more self-centered lately, especially during the past 8-10 years.
With regards to your over all experience, I can say that when you arrive at the emergency room, they prioritize the most acutely ill patients first so if you'd been there with something less severe (like a fractured leg for example), you might've had to wait a really long time.
All-in-all, this video honestly made me think that maybe there is still some hope in our society and maybe it's just where I live now that things are especially bad.
I enjoyed reading your comments! Thanks!
I live in Sweden and I've never met anyone or been given any painkillers or antibiotics for pulling teeth. I've also never seen anyone get an infection from pulling teeth. Every time I've had them pulled, even when I had inflamation it sort itself out fairly quickly. You were indeed very unlucky, I've never seen anyone get sick like this from pulling teeth. We normally just pull them and then have it heal in a day or two.
when i grew up i had 2 wisdom teeth removed by my dentist that was from the "old school" he was horrible. he made me realy scared of dentists.
going forward to 27 i had two other wisdom teeth that started to make a problem. i told the dentist (folktandvården) that i did not like dentists. they were so awesome, so damn gentle and nice. the woman doctor (boss at that place) looked over everything and most stuff been done in my mouth was done bad by the old dentist. so she helped me get it fixed. (including removing another teeth and fitting a new one) then i got a date for the wisdom teeth removal and that surgeon was fantastic . i fell asleep during his operation.
also got an infection later but not as severe, antibiotics worked, but the painkillers i got did not work at all so had to get stronger ones.
I had two removed (at separate occasions) this summer. I've been through terrible experiences so I was REALLY worried but my dentist is awesome. She had them removed within 10-15 minutes. I didn't have any antibiotics nor painkillers. And I even went back to work afterwards (even though she told me not to).
I love the medical services here, but there are certian situations where you need to be your own advocate or have one with you. That being said they are very big on looking at the community as a whole when it comes to antibiotics and pain meds. They don't want to created problems that may put the community at risk. I've been in both the Swedish and American systems and there are, like you said, good in both, but at the end of the day I prefer Sweden.
Whew, you really went through hell there! Your story has been among top on my UA-cam since you published. Must be because we're in the same City, I guessed, because the pic of Bridge to Copenhagen. I felt I am supposed to watch and comment. When really sick, life-threatening, and in pain you are so vulnerable, and suddenly not being at home feels so much worse. We have experienced that situation in my family too. I have worked at the hospital and I know the jaw surgery department has a good reputation and handles the hardest cases. In one way good that you where here, but I understand the question marks. I think others more suited have commented on that. The education for dentist is right next to the hospital, guess that's why your room got crowded at one point. I volunteer to give you a hug if I spot you down town. 😁
Thanks for commenting and the kind words!
Restrictions on pain meds really have gotten insane in Sweden, used to be much better just 5-6 years ago but now you're just screwed if you're in pain. Went to the ER a couple of times about a year ago, screaming in pain and the doctors just say "I don't prescribe morphine because of some people might become addicted" refering to the American opiod epidemic. The basically just checked to see if I was in any seriuos danger but couldn't find anything and sent me home, meanwhile I'm screaming in pain.
I used to love the Swedish health care but there's something seriously wrong when doctors refuse to treat severe pain. What's worse is they're probably increasing the risk of addiction as people are forced to find other ways of dealing with the pain.
I "managed" (didn't really get any sleep and my screaming probably kept some neighbours awake as well) without resorting to using any illegal drugs but others might not, in fact I know of some who didn't, just because the doctors refused to help them with their pain.
it's quite interesting! I think Finland would be somewhere in between! I don't work in health care, but in my experience it is true that the antibiotics are not given easily. For example for a sinus infection you don't get antibiotics here nowadays (we still did have those around 10 years ago). But I've heard that in these kind of situations, like yours, for example teeth/mouth surgery, they do give them. Also I've understood that in Finland it's an idea that a patient shouldn't feel pain, as getting better pain free helps you get better sooner. So pain killers are given. But the really strong pain killers only if you can't cope with the pain on the more common pain killers such as ibuprofein or parasetamol.
I fell when longboarding and fractured my wrist badly (one of the bones were snapped in half). When I got to the hospital they almost immiediately gave me oxynorm (a relatively strong painkiller), and I wasn't even in much pain at all. I just shrugged it off and told her that it's fine without the painkillers. She talked me into taking it. After the surgery they prescribed plenty of both alvedon and oxynorm. Crazy how you were basicaly denied painkillers and i wast talked into taking them.
I have noticed this too. Where I work, when patients say the Alvedon does not cover the pain, the next step is oxynorm, then anti epileptic meds like gabapentin as we deal with a lot of nerve pain as well in my department. I don't understand why there is nothing in between for pain management. Why go straight to oxynorm. Interesting reading the comments from those from Sweden saying that the reason pain meds are not given is to prevent dependency but then the pain management goes from Alvedon straight to Oxynorm or some other very strong medication. My friend who is a nurse in America hurt his shoulder in a skiing accident and the first drug he was prescribed was a drug related to Oxynorm. Long story short he developed dependency, started stealing drugs at work and ended up in prison. He never had a problem before. There are so many other drugs one can prescribe before one gets to such strong drugs. Those are a last resort in my opinion.
In Denmark it is the same as Sweden. You only get antibiotics if you have an infection, you can’t treat something which is not there. Pain medication is probably a little more relaxed here, but you would only get like 10-20 tablets.
I think maybe you had a kind of allergic reaction to the meds, I had those, too. It's a kind of bad luck, you were a rare patient who had this reaction.
Flagyl made me really sick. 😫
The emergency room is extremely quick and fast when you are really sick. If you have a bad cold you could be sitting there for a loooong time as everyone that are sicker are prioritised (as they should be)
I have had everything between 2 minutes to 6 hours over my life.
I live in Denmark, and I had three wisdom tooth removed, also with infection in, the dentist prescribed antibiotics for one day before and three days after, but no pain medicine prescribed
Thank you fore sharing your experience! Very interesting to hear from an American point of view.
Sadly, our way with antibitics and painkillers is unhumane, the reasong sound understandable, however, out of my own experience from getting healthcare many times around the world, also taking in the depenancy and tolerance arguments.. We totally fail in these areas.. I can share the proper words for describing how bad our way fails medicinal ethics here, but they're very strong... Get better soon
Talk about bad luck!! I suffer with anxiety as well so I get you on that part. I once was having 3 "tänder" ( can't spell it in English) taken out under while being put under. I told the doctor that I had really bad pain in one of my teeth and asked about pencelin, she said "no worries" She didn't give that and the day after I was in soo much pain, went to urgent care, they gave me morfin tablets to have until I saw the doctor again. Then she gave me pencillin and pain killer. As well as you I suffered like.... I don't go to hospital even when I should because of all the wrong thing happened to me. Sitting and listening to you, I felt so extremely sorry for you. Sorry for rambling
Thanks for sharing! ☺️
I'm sorry for your ordeal and all the pain you had to gp through! I say that antibiotics are too restricted in Sweden as a prevention, so much are given to animals as prevention to those so to give to patients who could be at risk of infection is too restricted imo. They should've let you stay for observation in a ward at the hospital. To go to the ER aren't free of charge but affordable in Sweden. Its 300 -400 SEK, differs which region as they decide the costs independently. If you need to go, you call for a sjukbil - which is basicly a taxi taking you there, better cost than a taxi fare. If you need paramedics you of course need to call an ambulance. Doesnt cost 700$ or like how much I really dont know though. I had to call for a sjukbil once to go to the ER unit at the neatest hospital, and it came within 15 min. My experience at the hospital was good, I was well threated but of course I had to wait bc there were other patients. I was taken to a room though, and could lay down after had been in triage. Turned out I had been prescribed the wrong antibiotics by the doctor for pheumonia as it was mycoplasma, and that calls for an other type of antibiotics. So the meds Ive been taken didnt help. At all. I was getting really ill, chills and sweating and all the works. NDE almost. The doctor at the ER was really annoyed when she heard about it, bc I might aswell had gotten the antibiotics that works for both. Would have spared me, and spared me from having to go to the hospital. Fixed it in the first place. I told the doctor at the primary care unit, vårdcentralen, that I strongly suspected mycoplasma bc my son had just been sick in this kind of phenumena from mycoplasma and he was admitted in to hospital ward, infection bc he was so infected and couldnt breath. But no - the doctor said this wasn't possible due to the time span of incubation it could not be that I had myvoplasma just bc my son had it for 3 weeks ago. Well what do you know! The ER doctor said that yes we are restricted for prescribing antibiotics, its always within the procotols from the Medical Agency but there are linits to for being too restrictive in our daily practise to our patients needs. Also, a test for mycoplasma is really easily done, its just a swab test from the inside of the cheek. Nothing complicated and nothing expensive. Yes I agree that we must advocate for our needs as patients, and be really assertive about it.
We do have among the least antibiotic use in farming as well, so we're not only restrictive in humans.
What an experience. Thanks for sharing and for all the information. I am learning a lot.
Hi, Nice story. Get well son.
Folktandvården is dental care for anyone, but it is unlikely to cover all needs for everyone. As a child growing up in Sweden it was always Folktandvården for me. So not quite the same as affordable care. I now live in the UK where our daughter (now in her forties) would get antibiotics far too quickly! I hope that has improved, and it seems so to me.
I'm glad to hear this was your experience. I work as an assisting nurse at an emergency hospital and my perception from co-workers, hearing about the ER, is that it's always under alot of strain and often chaos. However, atleast the chaos part ofcourse differs from day to day and time of the day. And everyone working within healthcare, ofcourse tries their best so that the patient doesn't feel the stress and pressure and lacking sense of control the staff's under.
That's a thing though. You were talking about customer service. We don't. We don't see you as our customer, we see you as our patient. (Our bosses might talk a different language, but on the floor it's clear.) As a human being, you have the right to health and thus health care, who ever you are (even though our rightwing, racist led government is trying to change that through law, ignoring international law). As a patient, you are in a vulnerable situation and should be treated from that knowledge. Call it ethics or call it solidarity, you should feel seen and be helped by forming an alliance of co-operation between you and the team of medical professions needed to help you. By trying to help you, not just physically but also mentally and emotionally, getting through this experience, the team's - incl your - chances for good resuslts increases. So it's not just right on a basic human level of solidarity, but it's professionally better.
Last, I'm ofcourse biased from being Swedish, and I can't speak on your case specifically. Did you explain how bad your pain was? Or like, did anyone NRS you and you said, what, like 7-10? One shouldn't have to beg for it, but ofcourse the nurses and doctors must know how bad it is, since we're not handing it out just in case. If they realized you were in that sort of pain, I find it weird you weren't given anything sharper sooner. (Not putting it on you, it's a genuine question. Many hold back describing pain and here's there's also the cultural difference of you not being used to even have to ask for it. But it could ofcourse just as well be them who didn't take enough notice and missed on sincerely asking you about your pain.)
It sounds like you should have got it earlier. Be it a misread from their point of view, a misunderstanding between you or be it "just" a wrongly/badly made decision. That's just my first reaction, since you got it in the end, after the dentist understanding how bad it was, and it got better. But I don't know anything about mouth pain, maybe it usually gets like much better quickly and that's why you didn't get anything sharper until some time ha passed. But it sounds wrong. I do think it was right to prescribe it gradually though and not just handing you a big box to digg into or keep at home for the next time you're in pain to self-medicate with (which usually happen when people get left-over drugs, not talking about you specifically ofcourse).
Overall, I DO think we are on the right track when it comes to antibiotics and analgesics. I know we differ from the rest of the world, especially outside of Europe, but this is a change in paths we have taken; we used to be more generous like 50-100 years back. But we changed paths precisely BECAUSE of the extremely dangerous increase in antibiotic resistant bacteria and dependency issues (the last one not least in the US with a much more market driven drug sales system). And we DO see these problems rising faster in the rest of the world who doesn't hve these types of restrictions. Especially where there's no general healthcare systems in place. I know that NGO's like Doctors Without Borders are trying to challenge these views around the world, by education and their work on the ground. Trying to care for people with for example antibiotic resistant TB - which is on the rise globally - is basically hell, and ofcourse incomparably worse for the patient.
So, yeah, it might be putting extra strain on the ER's but that's a much lesser cost for society and humanity, than that of people getting destroyed by dependency or incurable diseases re-entering the majority of the health care field, the way it used to be before the penicillin.
Best wishes for your continued recovery!
I had a kidney stone being completely stuck for 5 days, I was getting more and more nauseous and I got to the point of having "njurbäckeninflammation" before even calling 1177. When asked how much pain I was in, I said 6. I thought that was a reasonable number as I was still alive, wasn't shot nor did I have a broken bone 🤷🏻♀️
I was told to arrange my own transport to the hospital an hour's drive away. I didn't make it that far though. When I found an "jourmottagning" on the way there, I went there instead, and they told me that I should have demanded an ambulance. I had emergency surgery later that night (at 2 am).
We all have different scales. To be honest, women probably rate their pain lower than men...
@erikak8665 Yeah. That's why it's so hard when one is only talking on the phone. Like, can't see the expression, sometimes it's harder to read the tone or hear like other sounds, like how heavy- or shallow-breathing the person is; and it's a complete stranger so one doesn't know hiw they usually sound or deal with pain for that matter.
I ususally help with the NRS scale, by saying some guiding pointers (0 is no pain at all, up to say 3-4 is managable, than it gets more and more unmanagable, 10 is the maximum amount of pain you CAN feel - think torture. Something like that.) If I sense that we might be thinking differently about the pain scale, I ask follow-ups. "Ok, so I'd interpret that like you're ok with this amount of pain, but if it increases any, it would start getting unmanagable. Would you say that is how you feel?" Or "So, if you were at home with this amount of pain, what would you do?" Or "Would you say you'd be able to sleep at night even though you have this pain, or would it keep you up?", "Can you move around with this pain?" "Are you down-playing it, because I can see that you are grimaging right now..?" etc, etc. Like if you say 6, I'd still ask "Can you drive or does it hurt too much? Could you deal with having to hit the breaks or a bump in the road? Can you focus on driving and what's happening on the road with this pain, are you safe in traffic?"
Then, I ask if the pain feels stable or if it's rising or easying up, if it comes and goes, etc.
Because, while the theory is that since pain is subjective, we will all say what the pain is like for us, given an objective scale; in reality, this might be true but one must add that it's also a way for people to communicate and this is never objective but full of pre-understandings. Like, what symptomes one felt last time one was in horrible pain, "now I don't have those so it can't be as bad". Or, like you said, "nothing's broken or visibly wrong, so I must be under a 7". Or, "I'm really good at dealing with pain, so I'm not going to make this out to be unmanagable, it's a 3." You wouldn't know how common it is for patients to say a low number, but then adding "And I'm not a whimper, I'm really good at dealing with pain, so if I say 3, others might say 6..!" And it's like "Well, I'm not comparing to anyone else, I'm not even comparing to you being your normal healthy self. It's just you and now. So what is it in your body, right now?"
To understand the kind of pain, one can ask how the sensation feels (burning, stabbing, pulsating, and so on), this can help us understand what is happening and what might help; but also help the person psychologically deal with the pain, and thus psychosomatically ease the pain a bit, in some cases. If we feel seen and heard and also if we feel like we are in control - we can name the pain - we are generally tremendously better at handling it. And if the pain can ease just a little, it's worth alot. The more we can relax, usually the better the analgesics work when we get them.
I've had a number of abscesses, and they've always given me antiobiotics fairly quickly. Though I'm also so well experienced with these damn infections by now that I know exactly when one has gotten too shitty to drain and deal with myself. Last abscess was on my chin. Drained it, and discovered that it had formed a nasty pocket. Went to a vårdcentral and walked out with a compliment on the nice draining job and an antibiotic prescription within 15 minutes.
😢 sorry you have had so much difficulty
From the story you're telling I think your dentist friend is the cog that broke the machinery in this case. Based on how complicated the surgery was to begin with they should have kicked your butt over to the emergency room right away when there was a problem. Not Folktandvården or any other wait and see solution. The idea is you don't get antibiotics until you need it and early signs of infection would be an excellent reason to get on antibiotics. I'm glad your other friend drove you there later, it would have been miserable to use public transportation in that state. Glad you're feeling better and hope it keeps improving!
😆 thanks 🙏🏻
Double hip replacements and one knee recap.
Cost each total 40USD.
Turned out excellent home after two days.
They even offer three course meals now in D region.
Good you came in in time cause sepsis is so painful and take such a long time to come back from. I hope you get 100 % healthy after this, it sounds a little bit rough that you had to do this without any opioids but i think you would have got it if you insisted on it.
I have experience in healthcare in Thailand. However, not from dental care. But the biggest difference I experienced from the healthcare in Thailand was that the most important thing for them was to make money! The problem in this case was the stomach. A common symptom for me as I have Crohn's. But in Thailand they didn't listen to what I said about my past experiences. Instead, they would do all the research on and try to reinvent the wheel. Finally I gave up and went to a cheaper state hospital, stood in line for about 3 hours at the emergency room. Tell the doctor what medicines I wanted to make the journey home to Sweden 24 hours later. Also, I want to remember that I had to pay some money under the table to get these medications without any major examination. Then I was able to receive care at home in Sweden. Away good but at home best. I think people will always think so. Regardless of where you come from, you will to some extent carry what you are used to.
Tuition is free in Sweden, and becoming a medical Doctor has some of the highest pre-requisites out of any program. If somebody wants to make money in Sweden, they do not spend 6+ years to become a Doctor, and then additional years to become a specialist. They go into finance, business or even certain engineering fields.
That is to say, those who become nurses and doctors do so out of a genuine desire to work in healthcare and to take care of people. I think this is what contributes to your positive experiences with Swedish healthcare. It comes from the social conditions and what the government provides in terms of opportunities for people to seek their own calling.
The issue we are facing in Sweden on the other hand is an aging population in general, and especially an aging healthcare workforce, and this is problematic the day the current workforce retires. We're already seeing huge issues with this in psychiatric care manifesting in long queue times for example.
Same situation within other parts of public sector as well, from teachers to social workers.
Exactly the same thing happened to my hubby some yrs ago. He has a fear for dentist and got an infection with pus flowing from the jaw. I could not get him to the dentist but one morning he woke up with sepsis stripes down against the chest at the heart side so he took the car to our hospital (with a dentist emergency unit). His CRP was so high that he was immediately put in a bed a got 3 bags of fluid with strong multi antibiotics. He rang home to tell me he wasn´t coming home that night and then he passed out. The doc said that if he had came one hour later he might have ended up at intensive care. One should be careful when things happen in the mouth, a lot of nasty bacterias in there... A relative still have problems with the jaws, could not open the mouth because of an infected tooth and the could not get rid of it because of the infection and later because the locked jaws. Two yrs now, pain, dizziness, bad sleep and still can´t work full time. Take care of your teeth folks!
🙏🏻
Swede here.
I had a nasty staph infection in my thumb (looked like something from an Alien movie, went all the way down to the bone), had to spend a couple-three nights in the hospital, IV antibiotics, surgery and after care. All in all I think it cost me like $50.
However, after living in the Neterhlands, I still have to say I prefer their system of privatized health insurance.
i'm from sweden and this summer I've got the same first reactions from removing my wisdom-teeth, as your first reactions. The dentist said that my reaction was rare. She gave me penicilin. and a couple of days later I slowly got better. the dentist told me to to go to the er if the penicilin didn't work. I told myself that it would never go that far,. The pencilin did it for me ,but I had problem opning mouth for a couple of month. but no infection. listening to you I understand the seriousness of teeth problem.
Wow I really appreciate hearing this. Thanks
Interesting! I’m 60 and recently had my first surgery and first night in a hospital here in Sweden. Found all the nurses and doctors I met very kind and professional. Paid 130 SEK for staying one night (13 USD).
It’s really awesome that healthcare is accessible to all and won’t bankrupt you like it the USA.
Yeah, I paid 460 for 2 trips to the ER and two nights at medicinska avdelningen. Like sure, as a student, it is a bit tough, but it's less than 500 at the end of the day (prior to ER I also spent another 800 on my VC because they kept sending me home and asking me to come back). I have now changed VC.
@@SammyLammy1Dthat’s why you have the thing called frikort. When you reach 1400kr all visits are free for a year
@@becurious2000 It doesn't cover toothcare though. Among swedes we all know that how to tell if you're poor. Is the state of your teeth. Fixing a hole in one tooth is about 10.000 sek in sweden, about 1000 USD.
The only time toothcare gets covered is with cases like yours. That need a jaw/nose/ear doctor & the ER.
@ sounds like the jokes I hear about England and their teeth 😂 my mom was born in England by the way 😀
The best care and free for us. 😊
Dental costs are not included in the medical högkostnadsskydd. There is a separate högkostnadsskydd for dental care, but it is much higher.
Högkostnadsskydd = Out-of-pocket maximum: Most commonly used in healthcare, it refers to the maximum amount a patient pays out of their own pocket over a certain period (e.g., one year) before insurance covers the remaining costs.
Raw translation of the word "högkostnadsskydd" is "high-cost protection".
I have prophylactic antibiotics whenever I have any dental work done due to Rheumatic fever as a child. I am now 69. Greetings from South Africa 🇿🇦🇿🇦🇿🇦
Dependency and resistance are two things that we want to avoid as much as possible. But in some cases antibiotics is given as a prevntative measure. During childbirth…I think.
Praying for you! USA