Such a top-notch interview! I don’t find myself agreeing with your guest but loved the conversation. It really made me question my material reductionist “certainty” when it’s really an inherited intuition.
I don't know how a reasonable person can pick any of these ancient gods and say that that is representative of some universal mind when all of them appear to be is to be a little more than mythology.
@@tonyburton419 I don't know the guy so I'm speculating. But my sense is, if pressed on his religious beliefs he'd say he doesn't "know" they're true, but believes they are. But if I'm wrong he's merely confusing his subjective opinions & beliefs for objective reality. Not like he's alone there. We're all guilty of that.
Zigmund Freud famously remarked that it was kind of curious that the most sophisticated, elaborate and grandiose questions about the origins of life and universe were revealed to and understood by the vastly uneducated, primitive, superstitious and ignorant ancient people who knew virtually nothing about anything who lived in filth, ate dirt and died at 30. This guy is marvelously deluded and his education helps him. Shermer is being a gentleman. I can only imagine what Hitch would to this dreamer (or Sam Harris or Dawkins in his younger years).
I’d love Sean Carrol to explain to this guy how he has utterly confused and abused quantum concepts, just like Chopra. These effects don’t apply to the macro world; you’re not entangled in any meaningful way with the other side of the galaxy or your environment
As soon as Charles says ' the JudeoChristian god is the best explaination for mind/matter problem... I can't take him seriously...since the JudeoChristian story doesn't even make sense for its apparent purpose of a loving all-powerful god wanting to save humanity. If you can not understand and acknowledge the flaws in this gods plan and methods for emparting salvation to humanity then I am going to have to worry about how you come to any other of your conclusions and beliefs. And please go and actually learn some actual quantum mechanics don't do a deepak chopra...real physicist find it annoying when the woo starts.
I totally agree with you am pissed off with the huge amount of new age bullshit that so many people believe in whole hearly. Critical thinking completely gone, everyone goes with their intuition and feels what's feel. Plus I used to attend a seven day Adventist cult years ago. I was thinking or hoping that the bible would give me a answers. Truth is I never could give in to the many verses that contradict each other. Plus the evil and stupidity of the whole book... really childish were people never grow up lol..
Congratulations to Michael for acknowledging that his reductionist methodology when applied to spiritual matters is misplaced. Fantastic interview..Thank you.
Unorthodox thinking is important. We don't know everything. However, come on. We have found out quite a lot. We have to work and build from there and not just throw out wild speculation as fancy or faith might sanction as that could be absolutely anything and never got or will get us anywhere. Evidence matters. Science HAS so far refuted the intuition that the universe is saturated with purpose or that the universe cares about us in so many ways from so many points. The idea that a dog's life may be preferable is absurd on its face in so many ways that one shouldn't really need to mention them. ALL we know about consciousness suggests it's the product of the brain and that ours is more complex than other animals....come on...
17:34 “…that which really, um constituted her substance still continues to exist in some form. It may be as I've suggested that it's gone back to that great sea of universal mind…” GROAN.
05.00 to 18.00 As somebody who cares 24-hours for his wife who has dementia this makes a lot of sense to me . Of course it can never be proved but I believe that consciousness is the ephemeral privilege to be able to communicate with a small part of the consciousness of the universe. When dementia takes away part of that you begin to realise it may well be true
Another Christian with a great appreciation for Hunter-Gatherers… sometimes I feel like the only one. Bonus points for the mention of the Orthodox “Usual Prayers”.
1:37:00 C - Because who says there's a "right" religion? Religion is the science of the "ought" - it's the study of wisdom - and there are many branches of science.
Lost a lot of credibility in the quantum theory waffle, and an obvious struggle to try and justify his personal belief in Christianity. Respect for Michael in a patient push back.
Bemoaning the tyranny of language and using it in the service of Christianity of all things is a bit much..... I avoided the tyranny yesterday in the Frans Hals show at the Wallace collection. All of his painted faces say 'I am' absolutely unequivocally.
Reading Genesis 1, like a Bronze Age personage, a fertile crescent person, isn't it about perfect? Since it appears to be about about Taxiology, the ordering of things, it is pretty far afield of our cosmic questions. But we are to learn from others questions, not just our own. Genesis 1, if read this way, coheres perfectly.
He's obviously not an anthropologist. Perpetuating the myth of the Noble Savage. Paraphrase: "Everything was better when he were hunter-gatherers." "Lots of our modern ills can be traced to the decision to sit still in one place...." Humans were forced to transition to agricultural settlements due to the extinction of the megafauna and depletion of readily available game not because they were "too lazy to wander after the herds and to gather berries." What? Agriculture is many times more labor intensive than hunting & gathering. Humans survived as H-Gs for 2 million years but with agriculture came all the wonders (and ills) of civilization. Being ambushed by a smilodon versus social media. Which is worse? p.s. Due to decreased brain size, "We're less alive. Just as a neurological fact."
I prefer to listen to as many perspectives as possible. The ideas presented by this guest were not very compelling but like Shermer said, "it's boring just talking to people you agree with."
I think all you’ve stated is that the water is a observed by your consciousness. Being observable does not grant the property of observation (or consciousness) to the object.
Ancient vertiginous intuition has a place in moral reasoning but human intuition is dubious… Really? 10 minutes in and my notes are piling up. Not sure if I’m gonna make another 10 minutes…🙄
Haven’t watched it all yet, did he go back only 40,000 years because that’s just shy of the beginning of Caucasian? Surly that can’t be true but it’s the first thing that popped into my head when wondering why he didn’t go back 200,000. Hope I’m wrong
@@peterz53 oh, last info I read they developed about 40,000 - 50,000 years ago, it’s been a few years since I read it though. The same number, 40,000 has stuck in my head because when I hear politicians tossing around national deficit numbers in the trillions I think, one trillion seconds was about 31,000 years ago, Caucasians have barely been in existence for 1 trillion seconds (now with your info, they haven’t even been here that long) it’s baffling to reconcile those figures.
@@shanek6582 I'm not sure that "caucasians" has any meaning for paleioanthropologist and others who have studied human history and prehistory. Various shades of light and dark skin area adaptations to the environment. Homo sapiens, according to more recent findings has been around for over 250,000 years (maybe a bit over 20,000 years in North America). There have been discussions about changes in cognition based in part on the age of artwork and handcrafts which seem to go back for a much shorter period of time, more on the order of 40,000 years. But the entire field has been changing rapidly due to more fossils and artifacts and much better analytical tools (e.g. DNA analysis).
When are you going to have Robert Sapolsky on the show?
As Christopher Hitchens would have said .... "White Noise"
The art of sounding intelligent while saying profoundly stupid things.
Such a top-notch interview! I don’t find myself agreeing with your guest but loved the conversation. It really made me question my material reductionist “certainty” when it’s really an inherited intuition.
I have no patience for this man. You may feel different. If you think Jesus is a god, you are not living in reality. Your right to do, of course.
I don't know how a reasonable person can pick any of these ancient gods and say that that is representative of some universal mind when all of them appear to be is to be a little more than mythology.
Not "a god". God.
@@paulwillisorg -- Not God. A god.
@@brigham2250 Don't be so emotional.
@@paulwillisorg -- Don't be so angry.
Very interesting guy. Very unique as he seems to be channeling Socrates in his epistemology: he knows how much he doesn't know. Rare these days.
Except that he "knows" Christianity is true?.
@@tonyburton419 I don't know the guy so I'm speculating. But my sense is, if pressed on his religious beliefs he'd say he doesn't "know" they're true, but believes they are. But if I'm wrong he's merely confusing his subjective opinions & beliefs for objective reality. Not like he's alone there. We're all guilty of that.
Zigmund Freud famously remarked that it was kind of curious that the most sophisticated, elaborate and grandiose questions about the origins of life and universe were revealed to and understood by the vastly uneducated, primitive, superstitious and ignorant ancient people who knew virtually nothing about anything who lived in filth, ate dirt and died at 30. This guy is marvelously deluded and his education helps him. Shermer is being a gentleman. I can only imagine what Hitch would to this dreamer (or Sam Harris or Dawkins in his younger years).
This guy should fly on the same alien spacecraft with Bob Lazar and Deepak Chopra (as captain Spock)
Agreed. He utilizes selective interpretations of natural occurrences to reinforce his preferred religious beliefs. Same old Middle Age methodology.
I'm learning through Michael Shermer's vulnerability how to deal with all of this reasonably. Empirical evidence. ❤️
I’d love Sean Carrol to explain to this guy how he has utterly confused and abused quantum concepts, just like Chopra. These effects don’t apply to the macro world; you’re not entangled in any meaningful way with the other side of the galaxy or your environment
There's no meaningful way to detangle a quantum object with its environment.
As soon as Charles says ' the JudeoChristian god is the best explaination for mind/matter problem... I can't take him seriously...since the JudeoChristian story doesn't even make sense for its apparent purpose of a loving all-powerful god wanting to save humanity. If you can not understand and acknowledge the flaws in this gods plan and methods for emparting salvation to humanity then I am going to have to worry about how you come to any other of your conclusions and beliefs.
And please go and actually learn some actual quantum mechanics don't do a deepak chopra...real physicist find it annoying when the woo starts.
I totally agree with you am pissed off with the huge amount of new age bullshit that so many people believe in whole hearly. Critical thinking completely gone, everyone goes with their intuition and feels what's feel. Plus I used to attend a seven day Adventist cult years ago. I was thinking or hoping that the bible would give me a answers. Truth is I never could give in to the many verses that contradict each other. Plus the evil and stupidity of the whole book... really childish were people never grow up lol..
Congratulations to Michael for acknowledging that his reductionist methodology when applied to spiritual matters is misplaced. Fantastic interview..Thank you.
Unorthodox thinking is important. We don't know everything. However, come on. We have found out quite a lot. We have to work and build from there and not just throw out wild speculation as fancy or faith might sanction as that could be absolutely anything and never got or will get us anywhere. Evidence matters. Science HAS so far refuted the intuition that the universe is saturated with purpose or that the universe cares about us in so many ways from so many points. The idea that a dog's life may be preferable is absurd on its face in so many ways that one shouldn't really need to mention them. ALL we know about consciousness suggests it's the product of the brain and that ours is more complex than other animals....come on...
17:34 “…that which really, um constituted her substance still continues to exist in some form. It may be as I've suggested that it's gone back to that great sea of universal mind…” GROAN.
Was not impressed with his response regarding Aunt Millie. Pure psychobabble.
Quite a lot of nonsense, really. Still, I really appreciate Michael's patience.
05.00 to 18.00 As somebody who cares 24-hours for his wife who has dementia this makes a lot of sense to me . Of course it can never be proved but I believe that consciousness is the ephemeral privilege to be able to communicate with a small part of the consciousness of the universe. When dementia takes away part of that you begin to realise it may well be true
Nobody knows where consciousness comes from and what happens to it after we die.
Wow, this guy actually makes me appreciate what a great intellect Jordon Peterson is. I almost made it to the end, though. I'll be back next video:)
A low bar… Hubris is hubris, period.
Great convo. Bravo.
Another Christian with a great appreciation for Hunter-Gatherers… sometimes I feel like the only one. Bonus points for the mention of the Orthodox “Usual Prayers”.
Great interview - painful audio 😭
Im disappointed. No lobsters in sight.
Challenging this guy on the objective truth of Christianity turns him into a fumbling mumbling disaster.
I saw the opposite.
1:37:00 C - Because who says there's a "right" religion? Religion is the science of the "ought" - it's the study of wisdom - and there are many branches of science.
Lost a lot of credibility in the quantum theory waffle, and an obvious struggle to try and justify his personal belief in Christianity. Respect for Michael in a patient push back.
Assertions without mentioning what the evidence is that supports them. Do his kanine and feline patients have consciousness?
I keep pausing every now and then and asking myself "what if the opposite was true?" And really I'm coming to the same conclusions.
Waffling.
Do WE have freewill?
Yes we have limited free will.
Bemoaning the tyranny of language and using it in the service of Christianity of all things is a bit much..... I avoided the tyranny yesterday in the Frans Hals show at the Wallace collection. All of his painted faces say 'I am' absolutely unequivocally.
A Lennox-like argumenteer: oh boy! 🙄
The human mind can believe anything.
All is mind.
Reading Genesis 1, like a Bronze Age personage, a fertile crescent person, isn't it about perfect? Since it appears to be about about Taxiology, the ordering of things, it is pretty far afield of our cosmic questions. But we are to learn from others questions, not just our own.
Genesis 1, if read this way, coheres perfectly.
Oh goodness, this tops it all , my dogs life is more complete them mine .. Ideates. Intelects
🐬
Far and away the most incoherent guest you’ve had. Two words: dazed and confused
He's obviously not an anthropologist. Perpetuating the myth of the Noble Savage. Paraphrase: "Everything was better when he were hunter-gatherers." "Lots of our modern ills can be traced to the decision to sit still in one place...."
Humans were forced to transition to agricultural settlements due to the extinction of the megafauna and depletion of readily available game not because they were "too lazy to wander after the herds and to gather berries." What? Agriculture is many times more labor intensive than hunting & gathering. Humans survived as H-Gs for 2 million years but with agriculture came all the wonders (and ills) of civilization.
Being ambushed by a smilodon versus social media. Which is worse?
p.s. Due to decreased brain size, "We're less alive. Just as a neurological fact."
If you were a brain in a vat; who would you be?
Thanks for pointing out beforehand that the guest is religious. Saved me from wasting my time listening to useless claptrap.
I prefer to listen to as many perspectives as possible. The ideas presented by this guest were not very compelling but like Shermer said, "it's boring just talking to people you agree with."
Everything in perception is conscious so if you see a bottle of water it is conscious in a since that it is part of your conscious reality
I think all you’ve stated is that the water is a observed by your consciousness. Being observable does not grant the property of observation (or consciousness) to the object.
Before we get into panpsychism and a conscious universe, we have to define "consciousness."
This guy is a Muppet
Ancient vertiginous intuition has a place in moral reasoning but human intuition is dubious… Really? 10 minutes in and my notes are piling up. Not sure if I’m gonna make another 10 minutes…🙄
Haven’t watched it all yet, did he go back only 40,000 years because that’s just shy of the beginning of Caucasian? Surly that can’t be true but it’s the first thing that popped into my head when wondering why he didn’t go back 200,000. Hope I’m wrong
I think recent DNA work shows that light skin came on the scene in Europe 10,000 to 15,000 years ago. Long after homo sapiens left Africa.
@@peterz53 oh, last info I read they developed about 40,000 - 50,000 years ago, it’s been a few years since I read it though. The same number, 40,000 has stuck in my head because when I hear politicians tossing around national deficit numbers in the trillions I think, one trillion seconds was about 31,000 years ago, Caucasians have barely been in existence for 1 trillion seconds (now with your info, they haven’t even been here that long) it’s baffling to reconcile those figures.
Seriously? Your first thought was that the guest might believe only white people are conscious humans? You have got to be kidding me.
@@michaelo.1320 yeah, I got as far as he’s a Christian and wondered, they’ve got some strange beliefs, I’m Native American by the way
@@shanek6582 I'm not sure that "caucasians" has any meaning for paleioanthropologist and others who have studied human history and prehistory. Various shades of light and dark skin area adaptations to the environment. Homo sapiens, according to more recent findings has been around for over 250,000 years (maybe a bit over 20,000 years in North America). There have been discussions about changes in cognition based in part on the age of artwork and handcrafts which seem to go back for a much shorter period of time, more on the order of 40,000 years. But the entire field has been changing rapidly due to more fossils and artifacts and much better analytical tools (e.g. DNA analysis).