I actually had the privilege to work on one of these cars, in the 1980's. When you looked at the Engine you could see it was a V8 cut in half. Too cool. Then, the Transmission on the Rear-end was an amazing piece of Engineering. Very cool cars.
I had 2 in college both 4 cylinder, one 4 sp, one automatic. One got totaled, sold the other. Both gave good service with few repairs and were fun to drive. Great cars!
When I needed to rebuild the 421 in my '63 Catalina I temporarily installed a Tempest 326 engine for a few weeks. The 326 was free and it worked perfectly.
My parents bought a new 1962 Tempest Station wagon and I bought from them when I was 16. It was my first car and I had a blast with it. Had some good times in that car.
My grandfather bought 2 station wagons for his business, when he started building branch stores, so he could carry parts easier than in sedans. I was just calculating them in my memory and realized that they had to be 61’s, because we moved to our 1st home in 1960!
This was done in a time before cars became cookie cutter copies of each other, and that '63 Tempest was way ahead of it's time. Very enjoyable blast from the past. It brought back some good memories.
@ 0:24, In 1975, my friend showed up with that exact convertible in a light yellow color. He said "look what my father's co worker was going to junk" He gave this car to me. It looked brand new, top and all. I was jealous! It had half of a 326 V-8.
In the seventies, a friend of mine bought a ‘63 with the 326. It was wide, roomy and handled like a go kart (by sixties standards). It struck us as weird but seeing this video makes me appreciate it now.
I've driven Pontiacs ever since 1963 and currently own and drive an 88 Fiero...V6 5 speed. Way back in the mid 60's, I drove an ultra rare 54 Kaiser two door sedan...only 50 made. With a lot of work (Relocating the steering box) I installed a '58 Pontiac 370 and drove that car on many long road trips all over the western USA....and, it's performance surprised many. BHE
Wow, the Kaiser's you may know, continued to be made in South America years after Kaiser shut down, until the stamps wore out. Kaiser also had a sister car even more rare, the Frazier. I remember seeing one abandoned in a vacant lot in Omaha, until developers bought the land. Maybe a late 40's Frazier.
@@tompastian3447 Yes...I'm well aware of the Kaiser/Frazier 'arrangement.' When Kaiser moved to South America, it was Argentina they set up in, started making '51's all over again In whatever year that was (I'd have to check). '55 or '56...I think. In my other life, I'm an active amatuer astronomer....several years ago my wife and I toured five countries in South America, accomplished a lifetime 'dream' of mine....Walked the steps of Machu Picu...then onto Chili and finally to Argentina, primarily to view a total solar eclipse....my 10th....and, where we spent a week. We did quite a bit of driving in Argentina.....actually, riding around in a bus. I kept a sharp eye open, looking out for any Kaisers, but truth is...I never saw a one....however, we did witness a spectacular total solar eclipse low over the snow-capped Andes Mts, with the sun setting still about 70% eclipsed....my 10th and my 2nd Aussie wife's 4th. Somewhere, after owning and driving four Kaisers, taking several long trips in the western part of the country, once taking my 1st wife back to MO and meeting all of her folks, I took a trip back to my native Oregon. A RR crossing US 101 had traffic stopped....I pulled up and stopped too...some old fart (ten years younger than I am NOW!) didn't realize traffic had stopped...I knew I was in trouble when I saw smoke billowing up from his tires while he started drifting sideways, and then he slammed into us. Luckily, as this was before seatbelts, none of the four of us were hurt. I did manage to 'pull' the left rear fender out enough to drive home, but the car had been so badly knocked out of alignment, I ground off a brand new set of tires in the process. It was then I decided if I were going to install Pontiac engines in whatever I drove, might as well drive one, and am now on my third Pontiac Fiero....the only true mid-engine car ever made in the USA....mine is a V6 five speed....and, is my third one....have driven a Fiero since my first one in '89. Shortly, I will make the drive to Laughlin, NV....my favorite casino, to take advvantage of a 'free' three nights stay. Used to be 540 miles, but now, since my wife and I have finally combined households about six months ago, it is now 750 miles and takes me two day's driving each way. BHE
@@blackholeentry3489 Interesting story you posted. Many thought the last full sized Chevy Impala was patterned after the early 50's Kaiser. I still see a lot of later model Pontiacs driving around Miami, like Fieros and Axtecs. Since you're into astronomy, my wife and I have heard many of the Jason Lisle lectures on youtube. I have probably bought over a dozen copies of his book "Taking Back Astronomy" and give them out to people who I meet that are into astronomy. I've also listened to several Spike Psaris lectures, an astronomer who worked on the US Military particle beam accelerator. Type in either name on youtube search bar to hear their lectures. Jason Lisle got his degree in astronomy from the U of Colorado. ua-cam.com/video/bUaIerdBAEY/v-deo.html
Had an Olds F85 with the aluminium 215 V8. The car would have been a real screamer if it had a 3-speedinstead of the 2-speed. Incredible engine that a modified version won an F1 championship.
@@tommurphy4307 That only goes to show GM stupidity. Car people around the world still marvel at that little V8, and it is still being manufactured. Try again.
@@tommurphy4307: One of the dumbest decisions GM ever made. The motor is highly revered by those in the know, and are still being manufactured and modified for hot rod and racing use around the world.
My parents had a '62. It was the first car I drove when I was 16. I remember my mother picking me up from school, that skinny drive shaft breaking, and hearing heavy metal parts fall on the street.
the good old 'rope-drive'- was somebody doing brake-torques with it? about the only way you could make one fail like that. come on- tell us how you broke it.....
I had a '63 with the 326 V8. It was fun to drive and as a young and dumb I drove it hard. I beat a few road runners with the 383 in stop light drags in Portland.
Nice 63 and 64 Tempests/GTOs are my favorite cars. I would love to own a 63 convertible. I had a neighbor that owned a red one along with 3 very large dogs. You would always see her riding around town when the weather was nice with her top down and 3 massive dogs looking pleased as pie.
As a mechanic of the 60's the four cyl. version was amazing The half 389 had plenty of power but a terrible balance problem, so the factory fitted the engine with very soft mounts so at Idle it wouldn't shake the car apart
I remember these so clearly. I lot of the "greasers" in my west side of Chicago neighborhood had them back in the 60's. They were the envy of all us little kids.
How this narrator could describe a 1961 Pontiac Tempest with a 4cylinder (half of a 389 cid motor) as quick and nimble is beyond my comprehension. My mother bought a used trade in, Robin egg blue 1961 Tempest 4 door sedan, 4 cylinder with a 2 speed transaxle and a shift lever on the dash in December of 1961. The car had only 9000 miles on it and was about as quick and graceful as a duck on land. It was no wonder the original buyer dumped the car as quick as he could. My brother at the time owned a 1958 Nash Metropolitan with a 3 on the tree and a small 1491 CC or 91 cid, 4 cylinder engine that could beat the pants off the Tempest in a drag race and was far more agile around corners or on serpentine roads. The Tempest's transaxle rear could tuck under on turns just like the Corvair if the tire inflation wasn't correct. The 4 wheel drum brakes were undersized and totally insufficient. They suffered frequently from brake fade. Rolling through a puddle by the curb guaranteed that the right side which got wet wouldn't grip when braking and the car would veer to the left, so you had to seize the non-power steering hard to prevent the steering wheel from ripping away from your hands. In heavy rains you had to drive a lot slower because you never really knew if the brakes would function when wet (this included the emergency brake) In short the 4 cyl. Pontiac Tempest was a dog. At 50,000 miles 4 years later, I had to do a valve job on it in my garage because the valves warped and this was back when gasoline was leaded. We eventually sold the car to a girl for $300 and a week later her father tried to return the car hoping for his money back. If ever there was a rival for Junk to the Pontiac Aztek, look no further than the '61 Tempest. A classmate's sister owned a '63 Tempest 2 door hard top with a 3 speed (which he converted to a floor shifter) and a 326 cid V8. Now there was a fast car as well as better looking in general.
In 1966, I bought a '63 Tempest with the useless 326. Over the years, I have owned many cars and that Tempest was and is the biggest pile of squat I have ever owned.
Sounds like you owned a car with issues. All cars can produce some lemons. I owned a 62' lemans for 36 yrs and never had the problems you experienced. Think about it, you are saying that a 3 spd, 91 cid, beat the pants off of a 2spd, 195 cid? That dosent even make any sense. Do you understand how rpm's work when using a 2spd automatic , vs a 3 spd on the tree? You know how huge the pistons are on a 389 turned into a 4cyl? I am sorry you had a problem car, or were unable to make it run right, but my car was quick, very fast for a 4cyl. It had nice styling, no hump in the floor, was very dependable, and got many compliments everywhere I would go. It seems fun to get compliments, but always having to take time talking about the car everywhere I go was sometimes trying. When that car was tapped out in 1st gear, shifting to 2nd, it would slingshot very smoothly, vs a hard hitting driveshaft. So who designed that car? DeLorean, not a slouch. So to bash that car, when clearly it dosent deserve it, thats wrong.
My Dad bought a '63 2 door "rope drive" Tempest with the 1/2 of V-8 and a 3 speed, brand new. The engine shook like a dog trying to pass a razor blade (no internal balance shaft) and the swing axles made the handling nasty. The 3 three speed crapped out under warranty and after the trans was replaced that turd went down the road. A nicely styled car that was ill conceived.
That narrator is an AI Bot! 😯 You can tell by the phrases it uses. It has been upgraded as it isn't totally irritating your reasoning abilities like the 1st versions did. But you show the complete capability of rewriting the truth that AI possesses. We are All in for a Long Ride to 1984.
Several years ago I read about while doing an internal audit at the Pontiac plant in Pontiac MI. they found a '62 Tempest in one of their storage buildings under a tarp backed in a corner of that building . It was supposedly a research and development vehicle and after the engineering people were done with it it was put in storage and forgotten about for 40 years . Car was like new almost no miles on it. Think it was a mint green color coupe.
I've loved every Pontiac I've owned, especially the $250 rust-bucket Lemans wagon I drove cross-country in 1980. It needed some water at Yellowstone, the brakes got hot in a mountain pass, but not a glitch to be had! Or the 1973 GrandAm 400, 4bbl, 4-speed, coolest car I ever had, but too young to realize what I had. The 1956 Starchief was a problem without a garage, so to preserve it, I had to sell it.
Great video. I love hearing about quirky American cars. Never knew the Tempest was based on the Corvair. However, I cringed when you mentioned Pontiac thought the 4 cylinder would be lightweight. Not sure what the engine actually weighed, but since it was basically an old school big-block V8 with one cylinder head and 4 pistons removed, I doubt it was that light. Also, as a 3.2 liter 4 cylinder, I'm surprised they didn't all shake to pieces in the first 100 miles! Honestly, I think the Corvair with its original drivetrain had more potential as a platform for an upscale car.
Back in the late 60s, I worked for a man who was a mechanic and formerly had worked at the Pontiac factory. I quote him-"The worst piece of S..T to ever come off an assembly line"! From what I saw of them back then, that was a very accurate statement!
Any mechanics out there ever work on that flexible drive shaft? That feature has been a curiosity of mine for decades and I'd like to know more about it.
i'm sure many have replaced them after mario andretti got in the driver's seat. i remember watching a video where engineers and techs actually tried to break the things by multiple brake torquing binges. it seemed like everything failed BUT the rope-drive.
I haven’t forgotten 🫤. I didn’t understand it as a teenager when more of these were around. The trans axe and using a speedometer cable in a tube for a driveshaft (exaggeration) seemed low performance at the time and the front end was a face only a mother could love (61-63) but later on as my interest in Pontiacs grew, I learned to appreciate what was going on with these cars. Pretty wild engineering.
I would buy me the station wagon version, if only I found one here in Germany. I do need a station wagon for transporting our upright double bass and teh guitars as well as the amps ;)
My best friend’s older sister had a new red convertible. She’d let my friend drive it occasionally. We’d put the top down and cruise northwest Chicago hunting for those elusive cute girls. We never did have any luck as I recall but it was fun.
The Pontiac V8 optional in the 1963 Tempest/LeMans was called "326" but it was actually 336 CID. This was an engine PMD designed for used by GMC in the late 1950's Not sure if it actually went into production or not, but in 1959 as Pontiac sales began to take off PMD cut engine supply to GMC, otherwise they'd have to expand their foundry, an expensive proposition. So when they needed a smaller V8 themselves for the Tempest they pulled out the 336 again. But GM Corporate had an unwritten rule of no more than 330 CID in less than fullsize cars (except Corvette), and why there were the Olds 330, Chevy 327, and Buick 300 - at or below 330 CID. So Pontiac fudged the badges to 326. Whoopsies, typo! But PMD was caught by GM Research when testing the "326", they noticed it flowed more than expected. So they pulled heads and took measurements. As punishment PMD was forced to retool to an actual 326 CID for 1964, making the 336 a one year only engine. But this wasn't exactly unusual, the Pontiac 350 was actually closer to 355 CID, and the 301 was actually 302 CID (4.000" bore and 3.000" stroke, just like the Ford 302 and earlier Chevy DZ 302). But Pontiac was more accurate calling it a 4.9L as 302 (4942cc) does not round up to 5.0L. So... even before the 1964 GTO, PMD was already behaving as the "outlaw division" of GM.
My Dad had a blue ‘63 with the 4cylinder and 3 speed on the floor. I can remember the engine had a growl to it accelerating. Don’t remember much else about it!
The Pontiac and Buick had 215 cu in V8 was all aluminum, block and heads. Oldsmobile put a packston belt driven super charger on those, it truly was a rocket. That motor was a good swap for small body cars like an English ford, or mgb or later mg bodies.
In 1963, Pontiac dropped the aluminum Buick 215 cid V-8 for a Pontiac cast iron 326 (actually 337 for 1963 only) cid 260 gross hp V-8 (based on the 389/421 block). I owned a 1963 Tempest Sports Coupe with that 326 engine and a 3-speed manual transmission. Aweson little GTO forerunner. As for the Olds 1962-63 F-85, it's flagship model was the Jetfire with a TURBOCHARGED 215 gross hp/215 cid aluminum V-8 NOT supercharged. It was even more complicated with a form of water-injection. I had a 1962 F-85 with the 215 cid V-8, lusted for a Jetfire but couldn't afford the trade-up difference in cost....
The 195ci four cylinder was right at 3,200 CC, lots of power for a small car. The Tempest Trophy four engine was basically a Pontiac 389ci V8 cut in half to an in-line 4. I know, my dad had a 1961. Loved that car!
I had a 62 of that car. Mine was pale blue with a white convertible top. Pontiac engineers took a V8 and literally used 1/2 of it. The trouble with it was it wouldn't shut off - instead dieseling (the electrical was off but the pistons kept detonating), especially on hot days. I bought it used and sold it soon after.
simple fix- shut the engine down in 'drive' or snuff it out in gear with the clutch if its MTM. i have an old 510 with stroker motor & SU carbs and i have to side-step the clutch in first gear to kill it.
Some of the decisions that GM has made over the years have puzzled me. For example, it was Oldsmobile and Pontiac that got GM through the 1990s, and they discontinue Olds in 1999 and Pontiac the late 2008.
The original Tempest was a horribly "squirrelly" handling car. Just read what the honest car magazines of the time such as Road and Track or Car & Driver had to say in their road tests. It was barely acceptable with the 4 cyl, but the Corvair based rear swing axle rear suspension was a ticking time bomb with the 326 V-8 engine. The rear end was also marginal strengthwise when trying to handle the torque and horsepower of a potent V-8, and many differentials failed with low mileage. BILL
simple fix for that- limiter cables for the rear suspension arms. done several on corvairs and VW transporters and they absolutely transform the vehicles when off-roading. limiting the suspension travel also has the benefit of keeping the lateral driveline (halfshafts) aligned so they handle torque far better than the stock setup.
Light, independent at all four corners, no big heavy motor out the back to swing it around, with the Buick aluminium V8,... hrm... Swap that for a worked Rover 3.5 or Leyland 4.4, up the durometer on the bushings, and maybe swap to a later Corvette 5 speed, one of these could be wicked fun corner carving through back roads. Could also strap a turbo on the four cylinder.
It took my step-grandfather and grandfathers to show me that the 1930s, 1940s, and 1950s cars were the original muscle cars. They started with moonshine running, and NASCAR, that is how they were the original muscle cars.
actually they started when they had to run their vehicles on ethanol and found it to be a great fuel that yielded much more power and enabled them to build higher compression motors. i sure hope they allow ethanol/flex fueled vehicles in the future- our farmers deserve it.
The 1963 LeMans was the upgrade Tempest and did not have a 326 V8 but rather a 360 V8, a one year only engine and transaxle as with the 360 engines powered the reverse direction Corvair transaxle had to be beefed up making it stronger. The cars were badged 326 and not 360 because GM had mandated no engines bigger than the Corvette 327. But John DeLorean had already designed the car with a 360 and that is what went into the Tempest LeMans as an option
Here's a question that Pontiac fans just HATE. How many horsepower did the 1976 Trans Am have from the factory? Hint: My stock 6cyl 2009 Honda Accord has nearly 100hp more and would hand it its head. The 0-60 times were abysmal back then. I used to DOG my buddy's TA in my '77 Datsun 280z.
Your talking about when smog control and govt mandated detuning killed horsepower. It took more than a decade for technology to overcome what the regs did to horsepower
I remember delivering one of the four-cylinder versions to a local doctor. It was automatic and had air conditioning. With the air conditioning turned on, it could not make it up the hill to his house. Ultra poor design and engineering.
I drove the four cylinder version for a while with the two speed auto. It was okay as transportation to and from, but there wasn't an exciting thing about it.
After seeing this trend grow. it is not official. "Muscle car" is now rendered a useless term being used on just about any car. They are SUPPOSED to be mid-sized car with a large V8 engine generally used in full sized cars. I guess you could say the Buick Century qualifies. But it is generally accepted that the Pontiac GTO was the first muscle car. Pony cars and Sport cars are exempt, such as Mustang, Cobra and Corvette. A four cylinder Tempest is NOT a muscle car.
A 2 door Ferrari, Porsche, BMW M6, Lamborghini, or Buick Grand National are Muscle Cars!!!! The definition of a muscle car is a powerful v8 American 2 door Coupe. Chevelle, mustang, Camaro, and javelin are muscle cars
Volvo used the same front engine rear transaxle on their 343 later 340 hatchback that was a compact car, The Tempest is roughly the same size as a Ford Cortina the UK,s favorate mid size family car, like the Tempest,s nostril nose and why a 3 speed manual ?, was GM that tight as to not offer a 4-speed, even as an extra cost option.
This is getting ridiculous. They weren’t even called muscle cars back and to call a four cylinder a “muscle car”, that’s kind of stretching it don’t you think? 🤔 you all want a see a true “muscle car “? Try the 2024 Toyota Corolla GR, it has a 3 cylinder engine ( yes you heard right) it has 300 HP and available only with a 5 manual transmission. It’ll run circles around this Corvair
The 3/4 inch "shaft" instead of a normal drive shaft with u-joints has a tendency to snap in half. Tended to discourage owner. I remember my father's 63 having that happen way out in the boondocks. Was great fun waiting for Pontiac to get another solid shaft on bushing to replace it. He had to buy a second car to use during that time. Delorian designed. It figures
I am working on a 63 I pulled out of a barn after 50 years and have extensively researched this car. Yours is literally the only story I've ever heard of a rope drive snapping. Sounds like a fluke more than it does a "tendency to snap".
@@biffdelmonte4139 - That break happened a lot... especially after they put the 336" V8 in... some people never even made it home from the dealership...
Yes, in 1965 my 1963 Tempest Sports Coupe V-326, 3-speed manual broke as well. Dad got to toq mine back from San Antonio to Austin behind his 1964 Olds F-85. The Pontiac factory rep said "Sorry." Must've been a scratch on that fancy driveshaft when built that finally led to a fatigue failure. He couldn't help as I had it replaced by our local garage instead of the Pontiac dealer. Loved the awesome car anyhow....
Had one in 1960 maybe it was a 61. The absolute worst car i have ever owned bar none! 4 cylinder 2 speed auto transmission could not get out of it's own weight. Timing chain would break about every 10K miles. You never knew if you were going to get where you were going. I sometimes have nightmares about this POS.
LOL. This is not a muscle car. It was made before muscle cars were invented. There are no four cylinder muscle cars. Muscle cars are mid size cars with engines from full size cars. I eagerly await your upcoming video alleging a turbocharged Corvair is a muscle car. Or Maybe a Duster Twister. After all, it had hood scoops!
@@MistahJigglah Yea. I thought the bottom was calling any 60s 2 door V8 a forgotten muscle car but we've come to this. Waiting for someone to post a video about the Cosworth Vega. LOL.
You younger speed demons haven't been around long enough to know anything other than Mopar . Usually, your relationship with cars involves loud exhaust, brickwalls, and handcuffs.
You call the 4 cylinder Pontiac Tempest a "Muscle" Car. Bull Crap. You have never driven one obviously. you call yourself an "expert". The 4 cylinder Tempest was crap. Plagued with transmission problems as well as an engine that leaked like a sieve. I am 80 and I owned a Tempest as well as many other cars. Do your research, man before you "influence" others.. .
I had a 62 Tempest convertible , white with red interior, as my first car. Automatic with the shifter on the dash. Nice car.
A 1962 was my Dad's favorite ever car! It handled really well in the snow. Lovely design, lines.
I actually had the privilege to work on one of these cars, in the 1980's. When you looked at the Engine you could see it was a V8 cut in half. Too cool. Then, the Transmission on the Rear-end was an amazing piece of Engineering. Very cool cars.
I had 2 in college both 4 cylinder, one 4 sp, one automatic. One got totaled, sold the other. Both gave good service with few repairs and were fun to drive. Great cars!
When I needed to rebuild the 421 in my '63 Catalina I temporarily installed a Tempest 326 engine for a few weeks. The 326 was free and it worked perfectly.
General Motors , Seriously needs to bring back there performance division Pontiac !!!🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸💪💪💪💪
My parents bought a new 1962 Tempest Station wagon and I bought from them when I was 16. It was my first car and I had a blast with it. Had some good times in that car.
A Wagon, the almost perfect vehicle.
My grandfather bought 2 station wagons for his business, when he started building branch stores, so he could carry parts easier than in sedans. I was just calculating them in my memory and realized that they had to be 61’s, because we moved to our 1st home in 1960!
This was done in a time before cars became cookie cutter copies of each other, and that '63 Tempest was way ahead of it's time.
Very enjoyable blast from the past. It brought back some good memories.
I read that Porsche studied the tempest transaxle to use in the 924.
@ 0:24, In 1975, my friend showed up with that exact convertible in a light yellow color. He said "look what my father's co worker was going to junk" He gave this car to me. It looked brand new, top and all. I was jealous! It had half of a 326 V-8.
My mother had one when I was a kid, it couldn't get out of it's own way.
I have liked the styling on these cars since I was a kid. They still look fabulous.
In the seventies, a friend of mine bought a ‘63 with the 326. It was wide, roomy and handled like a go kart (by sixties standards). It struck us as weird but seeing this video makes me appreciate it now.
Yeah THERE IS!!!
I had one. It was definitely NOT a muscle car, but I liked it.
I've driven Pontiacs ever since 1963 and currently own and drive an 88 Fiero...V6 5 speed.
Way back in the mid 60's, I drove an ultra rare 54 Kaiser two door sedan...only 50 made. With a lot of work (Relocating the steering box) I installed a '58 Pontiac 370 and drove that car on many long road trips all over the western USA....and, it's performance surprised many. BHE
Wow, the Kaiser's you may know, continued to be made in South America years after Kaiser shut down, until the stamps wore out. Kaiser also had a sister car even more rare, the Frazier. I remember seeing one abandoned in a vacant lot in Omaha, until developers bought the land. Maybe a late 40's Frazier.
@@tompastian3447 Yes...I'm well aware of the Kaiser/Frazier 'arrangement.'
When Kaiser moved to South America, it was Argentina they set up in, started making '51's all over again In whatever year that was (I'd have to check). '55 or '56...I think.
In my other life, I'm an active amatuer astronomer....several years ago my wife and I toured five countries in South America, accomplished a lifetime 'dream' of mine....Walked the steps of Machu Picu...then onto Chili and finally to Argentina, primarily to view a total solar eclipse....my 10th....and, where we spent a week. We did quite a bit of driving in Argentina.....actually, riding around in a bus. I kept a sharp eye open, looking out for any Kaisers, but truth is...I never saw a one....however, we did witness a spectacular total solar eclipse low over the snow-capped Andes Mts, with the sun setting still about 70% eclipsed....my 10th and my 2nd Aussie wife's 4th.
Somewhere, after owning and driving four Kaisers, taking several long trips in the western part of the country, once taking my 1st wife back to MO and meeting all of her folks, I took a trip back to my native Oregon.
A RR crossing US 101 had traffic stopped....I pulled up and stopped too...some old fart (ten years younger than I am NOW!) didn't realize traffic had stopped...I knew I was in trouble when I saw smoke billowing up from his tires while he started drifting sideways, and then he slammed into us. Luckily, as this was before seatbelts, none of the four of us were hurt.
I did manage to 'pull' the left rear fender out enough to drive home, but the car had been so badly knocked out of alignment, I ground off a brand new set of tires in the process.
It was then I decided if I were going to install Pontiac engines in whatever I drove, might as well drive one, and am now on my third Pontiac Fiero....the only true mid-engine car ever made in the USA....mine is a V6 five speed....and, is my third one....have driven a Fiero since my first one in '89.
Shortly, I will make the drive to Laughlin, NV....my favorite casino, to take advvantage of a 'free' three nights stay. Used to be 540 miles, but now, since my wife and I have finally combined households about six months ago, it is now 750 miles and takes me two day's driving each way. BHE
@@blackholeentry3489 Interesting story you posted. Many thought the last full sized Chevy Impala was patterned after the early 50's Kaiser.
I still see a lot of later model Pontiacs driving around Miami, like Fieros and Axtecs. Since you're into astronomy, my wife and I have heard many of the Jason Lisle lectures on youtube. I have probably bought over a dozen copies of his book "Taking Back Astronomy" and give them out to people who I meet that are into astronomy. I've also listened to several Spike Psaris lectures, an astronomer who worked on the US Military particle beam accelerator. Type in either name on youtube search bar to hear their lectures. Jason Lisle got his degree in astronomy from the U of Colorado.
ua-cam.com/video/bUaIerdBAEY/v-deo.html
one of my friends drives a 2m6 but it has a testa rossa body kit- it turns a lot of heads.
61 Olds F85 aluminum V8. Great car.
actually the 330's were better runners and weighed only about 200 pounds more.
liked and subscribed ! great video !! Thank you very much !
A friend of mine in about 1968 took me for a ride in one of these which belonged to his mom , it wouldn't spin a tire in wet grass .
Had an Olds F85 with the aluminium 215 V8. The car would have been a real screamer if it had a 3-speedinstead of the 2-speed. Incredible engine that a modified version won an F1 championship.
so incredible- they couldn't wait to sell it off to the brits.
@@tommurphy4307 That only goes to show GM stupidity. Car people around the world still marvel at that little V8, and it is still being manufactured.
Try again.
@@tommurphy4307:
One of the dumbest decisions GM ever made. The motor is highly revered by those in the know, and are still being manufactured and modified for hot rod and racing use around the world.
Are you going to do the "Forgotten" Ford Falcon next?
Great Video!
My parents had a '62. It was the first car I drove when I was 16. I remember my mother picking me up from school, that skinny drive shaft breaking, and hearing heavy metal parts fall on the street.
the good old 'rope-drive'- was somebody doing brake-torques with it? about the only way you could make one fail like that. come on- tell us how you broke it.....
@@tommurphy4307 I only used a sledge hammer.
I had a '63 with the 326 V8. It was fun to drive and as a young and dumb I drove it hard. I beat a few road runners with the 383 in stop light drags in Portland.
Nice 63 and 64 Tempests/GTOs are my favorite cars. I would love to own a 63 convertible. I had a neighbor that owned a red one along with 3 very large dogs. You would always see her riding around town when the weather was nice with her top down and 3 massive dogs looking pleased as pie.
then they weren't super commando 383's.
As a mechanic of the 60's the four cyl. version was amazing The half 389 had plenty of power but a terrible balance problem, so the factory fitted the engine with very soft mounts so at Idle it wouldn't shake the car apart
i remember that- it was a service bulletin campaign/fix for rough idle complaints- and it worked out nicely for them (pontiac).
I remember these so clearly. I lot of the "greasers" in my west side of Chicago neighborhood had them back in the 60's. They were the envy of all us little kids.
Not the sme type of motor.
How this narrator could describe a 1961 Pontiac Tempest with a 4cylinder (half of a 389 cid motor) as quick and nimble is beyond my comprehension. My mother bought a used trade in, Robin egg blue 1961 Tempest 4 door sedan, 4 cylinder with a 2 speed transaxle and a shift lever on the dash in December of 1961. The car had only 9000 miles on it and was about as quick and graceful as a duck on land. It was no wonder the original buyer dumped the car as quick as he could.
My brother at the time owned a 1958 Nash Metropolitan with a 3 on the tree and a small 1491 CC or 91 cid, 4 cylinder engine that could beat the pants off the Tempest in a drag race and was far more agile around corners or on serpentine roads. The Tempest's transaxle rear could tuck under on turns just like the Corvair if the tire inflation wasn't correct. The 4 wheel drum brakes were undersized and totally insufficient. They suffered frequently from brake fade.
Rolling through a puddle by the curb guaranteed that the right side which got wet wouldn't grip when braking and the car would veer to the left, so you had to seize the non-power steering hard to prevent the steering wheel from ripping away from your hands. In heavy rains you had to drive a lot slower because you never really knew if the brakes would function when wet (this included the emergency brake) In short the 4 cyl. Pontiac Tempest was a dog.
At 50,000 miles 4 years later, I had to do a valve job on it in my garage because the valves warped and this was back when gasoline was leaded. We eventually sold the car to a girl for $300 and a week later her father tried to return the car hoping for his money back. If ever there was a rival for Junk to the Pontiac Aztek, look no further than the '61 Tempest.
A classmate's sister owned a '63 Tempest 2 door hard top with a 3 speed (which he converted to a floor shifter) and a 326 cid V8. Now there was a fast car as well as better looking in general.
In 1966, I bought a '63 Tempest with the useless 326. Over the years, I have owned many cars and that Tempest was and is the biggest pile of squat I have ever owned.
Pontiac Aztec was a rebadged Toyota Matrix, of course it sucked.
Consider the era Tempest was introduced.
Sounds like you owned a car with issues. All cars can produce some lemons. I owned a 62' lemans for 36 yrs and never had the problems you experienced. Think about it, you are saying that a 3 spd, 91 cid, beat the pants off of a 2spd, 195 cid? That dosent even make any sense. Do you understand how rpm's work when using a 2spd automatic , vs a 3 spd on the tree? You know how huge the pistons are on a 389 turned into a 4cyl? I am sorry you had a problem car, or were unable to make it run right, but my car was quick, very fast for a 4cyl. It had nice styling, no hump in the floor, was very dependable, and got many compliments everywhere I would go. It seems fun to get compliments, but always having to take time talking about the car everywhere I go was sometimes trying. When that car was tapped out in 1st gear, shifting to 2nd, it would slingshot very smoothly, vs a hard hitting driveshaft. So who designed that car? DeLorean, not a slouch. So to bash that car, when clearly it dosent deserve it, thats wrong.
My Dad bought a '63 2 door "rope drive" Tempest with the 1/2 of V-8 and a 3 speed, brand new. The engine shook like a dog trying to pass a razor blade (no internal balance shaft) and the swing axles made the handling nasty. The 3 three speed crapped out under warranty and after the trans was replaced that turd went down the road. A nicely styled car that was ill conceived.
That narrator is an AI Bot! 😯 You can tell by the phrases it uses. It has been upgraded as it isn't totally irritating your reasoning abilities like the 1st versions did. But you show the complete capability of rewriting the truth that AI possesses. We are All in for a Long Ride to 1984.
Then Delorean but a 389 in a Tempest and the rest is history.
Several years ago I read about while doing an internal audit at the Pontiac plant in Pontiac MI. they found a '62 Tempest in one of their storage buildings under a tarp backed in a corner of that building . It was supposedly a research and development vehicle and after the engineering people were done with it it was put in storage and forgotten about for 40 years . Car was like new almost no miles on it. Think it was a mint green color coupe.
From a technical point of view, the idea of an arched and flexible drive shaft should have deserved more space in the making of the video.
called a 'rope-drive' and it was a success.
I've loved every Pontiac I've owned, especially the $250 rust-bucket Lemans wagon I drove cross-country in 1980. It needed some water at Yellowstone, the brakes got hot in a mountain pass, but not a glitch to be had!
Or the 1973 GrandAm 400, 4bbl, 4-speed, coolest car I ever had, but too young to realize what I had.
The 1956 Starchief was a problem without a garage, so to preserve it, I had to sell it.
Great video. I love hearing about quirky American cars. Never knew the Tempest was based on the Corvair. However, I cringed when you mentioned Pontiac thought the 4 cylinder would be lightweight. Not sure what the engine actually weighed, but since it was basically an old school big-block V8 with one cylinder head and 4 pistons removed, I doubt it was that light. Also, as a 3.2 liter 4 cylinder, I'm surprised they didn't all shake to pieces in the first 100 miles! Honestly, I think the Corvair with its original drivetrain had more potential as a platform for an upscale car.
that would be the wrong verbage- it was conceived as a response to the corvair.
They came in metallic mint green paint.
"THEY DID!!! "
Maybe she said "they were "
Back in the day . . Without any modifications, none of these small cars were fast, or powerful. But interesting vid. anyway.
Back in the late 60s, I worked for a man who was a mechanic and formerly had worked at the Pontiac factory. I quote him-"The worst piece of S..T to ever come off an assembly line"! From what I saw of them back then, that was a very accurate statement!
“Taking the world by storm?! I HATE that cliche”😂
Good stuff!
Any mechanics out there ever work on that flexible drive shaft? That feature has been a curiosity of mine for decades and I'd like to know more about it.
i'm sure many have replaced them after mario andretti got in the driver's seat. i remember watching a video where engineers and techs actually tried to break the things by multiple brake torquing binges. it seemed like everything failed BUT the rope-drive.
She was right. It could never be confused with the Corvette. However, this one definitely did not have the power to leave those mawks.
I haven’t forgotten 🫤. I didn’t understand it as a teenager when more of these were around. The trans axe and using a speedometer cable in a tube for a driveshaft (exaggeration) seemed low performance at the time and the front end was a face only a mother could love (61-63) but later on as my interest in Pontiacs grew, I learned to appreciate what was going on with these cars. Pretty wild engineering.
rar- the rope drive unit did not spin within an enclosure- it sagged beneath the car just like a rope.
The narrator has some irregular views.
But help was on the way for the Tempest. For 1964, it became the core for the 1st GTO. Fixed it for him.
'64 goats are rare.
I would buy me the station wagon version, if only I found one here in Germany. I do need a station wagon for transporting our upright double bass and teh guitars as well as the amps ;)
Pontiac Tempest a fantastic , awesome car , love it , Steve
My best friend’s older sister had a new red convertible. She’d let my friend drive it occasionally. We’d put the top down and cruise northwest Chicago hunting for those elusive cute girls. We never did have any luck as I recall but it was fun.
The Pontiac V8 optional in the 1963 Tempest/LeMans was called "326" but it was actually 336 CID. This was an engine PMD designed for used by GMC in the late 1950's Not sure if it actually went into production or not, but in 1959 as Pontiac sales began to take off PMD cut engine supply to GMC, otherwise they'd have to expand their foundry, an expensive proposition. So when they needed a smaller V8 themselves for the Tempest they pulled out the 336 again. But GM Corporate had an unwritten rule of no more than 330 CID in less than fullsize cars (except Corvette), and why there were the Olds 330, Chevy 327, and Buick 300 - at or below 330 CID. So Pontiac fudged the badges to 326. Whoopsies, typo! But PMD was caught by GM Research when testing the "326", they noticed it flowed more than expected. So they pulled heads and took measurements. As punishment PMD was forced to retool to an actual 326 CID for 1964, making the 336 a one year only engine. But this wasn't exactly unusual, the Pontiac 350 was actually closer to 355 CID, and the 301 was actually 302 CID (4.000" bore and 3.000" stroke, just like the Ford 302 and earlier Chevy DZ 302). But Pontiac was more accurate calling it a 4.9L as 302 (4942cc) does not round up to 5.0L. So... even before the 1964 GTO, PMD was already behaving as the "outlaw division" of GM.
My Dad had a blue ‘63 with the 4cylinder and 3 speed on the floor. I can remember the engine had a growl to it accelerating. Don’t remember much else about it!
The Pontiac and Buick had 215 cu in V8 was all aluminum, block and heads.
Oldsmobile put a packston belt driven super charger on those, it truly was a rocket.
That motor was a good swap for small body cars like an English ford, or mgb or later mg bodies.
In 1963, Pontiac dropped the aluminum Buick 215 cid V-8 for a Pontiac cast iron 326 (actually 337 for 1963 only) cid 260 gross hp V-8 (based on the 389/421 block). I owned a 1963 Tempest Sports Coupe with that 326 engine and a 3-speed manual transmission. Aweson little GTO forerunner.
As for the Olds 1962-63 F-85, it's flagship model was the Jetfire with a TURBOCHARGED 215 gross hp/215 cid aluminum V-8 NOT supercharged. It was even more complicated with a form of water-injection.
I had a 1962 F-85 with the 215 cid V-8, lusted for a Jetfire but couldn't afford the trade-up difference in cost....
The 195ci four cylinder was right at 3,200 CC, lots of power for a small car. The Tempest Trophy four engine was basically a Pontiac 389ci V8 cut in half to an in-line 4. I know, my dad had a 1961. Loved that car!
cut in half which way? V4 or inline 4?? i'm more impressed by the old saab 96 V4's.
I recall seeing a few of these with the weird rear camber in the wild as it were
I had a 62 of that car. Mine was pale blue with a white convertible top. Pontiac engineers took a V8 and literally used 1/2 of it. The trouble with it was it wouldn't shut off - instead dieseling (the electrical was off but the pistons kept detonating), especially on hot days. I bought it used and sold it soon after.
simple fix- shut the engine down in 'drive' or snuff it out in gear with the clutch if its MTM. i have an old 510 with stroker motor & SU carbs and i have to side-step the clutch in first gear to kill it.
A friend had one in the early 70's, no reverse gear. Had to park it like a motorcycle or get out and push.
Blurring the definition of muscle car. There were Tempests that could be considered muscle cars, but they weren't the ones with the 4-banger in them.
This was my 1st car.
Some of the decisions that GM has made over the years have puzzled me. For example, it was Oldsmobile and Pontiac that got GM through the 1990s, and they discontinue Olds in 1999 and Pontiac the late 2008.
The original Tempest was a horribly "squirrelly" handling car. Just read what the honest car magazines of the time such as Road and Track or Car & Driver had to say in their road tests. It was barely acceptable with the 4 cyl, but the Corvair based rear swing axle rear suspension was a ticking time bomb with the 326 V-8 engine. The rear end was also marginal strengthwise when trying to handle the torque and horsepower of a potent V-8, and many differentials failed with low mileage. BILL
simple fix for that- limiter cables for the rear suspension arms. done several on corvairs and VW transporters and they absolutely transform the vehicles when off-roading. limiting the suspension travel also has the benefit of keeping the lateral driveline (halfshafts) aligned so they handle torque far better than the stock setup.
Light, independent at all four corners, no big heavy motor out the back to swing it around, with the Buick aluminium V8,... hrm... Swap that for a worked Rover 3.5 or Leyland 4.4, up the durometer on the bushings, and maybe swap to a later Corvette 5 speed, one of these could be wicked fun corner carving through back roads. Could also strap a turbo on the four cylinder.
It took my step-grandfather and grandfathers to show me that the 1930s, 1940s, and 1950s cars were the original muscle cars. They started with moonshine running, and NASCAR, that is how they were the original muscle cars.
actually they started when they had to run their vehicles on ethanol and found it to be a great fuel that yielded much more power and enabled them to build higher compression motors. i sure hope they allow ethanol/flex fueled vehicles in the future- our farmers deserve it.
Don't believe the earliest Tempests had an optional engine besides the 4 banger
I had the 4 cylinder model. Got very good gas mileage.
MPG?
Think of a Corvair with the engine in front, but not the transaxle. Good idea. The four was actually bigger than many sixes.
Oops! I meant half of a 389 V-8 engine
The last Tempest was actually the same car as the Chevrolet Corsica. However, it was only driven in Canada 🇨🇦.
Smokey Yunick had a bit to do with that 4 cylinder.
Pretty profile in 63
The 1963 LeMans was the upgrade Tempest and did not have a 326 V8 but rather a 360 V8, a one year only engine and transaxle as with the 360 engines powered the reverse direction Corvair transaxle had to be beefed up making it stronger. The cars were badged 326 and not 360 because GM had mandated no engines bigger than the Corvette 327. But John DeLorean had already designed the car with a 360 and that is what went into the Tempest LeMans as an option
I had a 62 convertible it was about shot when i got it
Just don't confuse it with a mint green buick skylark with 75/R14 tires!
This should of bigger than the corvair.
How about that - a 4 cylinder engine with a 4 barrel carburetor!
Those are cool cars with decent performance but it’s a stretch to call them muscle cars.
Here's a question that Pontiac fans just HATE. How many horsepower did the 1976 Trans Am have from the factory? Hint: My stock 6cyl 2009 Honda Accord has nearly 100hp more and would hand it its head. The 0-60 times were abysmal back then. I used to DOG my buddy's TA in my '77 Datsun 280z.
Your talking about when smog control and govt mandated detuning killed horsepower. It took more than a decade for technology to overcome what the regs did to horsepower
❤👍👍👍
I remember delivering one of the four-cylinder versions to a local doctor. It was automatic and had air conditioning. With the air conditioning turned on, it could not make it up the hill to his house. Ultra poor design and engineering.
The anti-Falcon
Sierra Cosworth for starters
I drove the four cylinder version for a while with the two speed auto. It was okay as transportation to and from, but there wasn't an exciting thing about it.
Muscle car??!! This is an economy compact, plain and simple. An interesting one to be sure, but no muscle car.
After seeing this trend grow. it is not official. "Muscle car" is now rendered a useless term being used on just about any car. They are SUPPOSED to be mid-sized car with a large V8 engine generally used in full sized cars. I guess you could say the Buick Century qualifies. But it is generally accepted that the Pontiac GTO was the first muscle car. Pony cars and Sport cars are exempt, such as Mustang, Cobra and Corvette. A four cylinder Tempest is NOT a muscle car.
The 4 cylinder was a toy.
1half of the potent 389v8 makes a mighty potent 4. I know, I once owned one.
1:34 is an Olds
"Chas sEE?" Where was that Ai built?
A 2 door Ferrari, Porsche, BMW M6, Lamborghini, or Buick Grand National are Muscle Cars!!!! The definition of a muscle car is a powerful v8 American 2 door Coupe. Chevelle, mustang, Camaro, and javelin are muscle cars
Super Slow Motion Athletics... i know you HAHA
Nice ai narration
Volvo used the same front engine rear transaxle on their 343 later 340 hatchback that was a compact car, The Tempest is roughly the same size as a Ford Cortina the UK,s favorate mid size family car, like the Tempest,s nostril nose and why a 3 speed manual ?, was GM that tight as to not offer a 4-speed, even as an extra cost option.
My brother in law rolled one. Almost killed my sister. 3 great, grown children, over 50 years of marriage. She's paying him back for life. ❤👍
Uh, the 4 cylinder muscle car by Pontiac?? No. But it came soon enough.
The 4 cylinder and it's flexible driveshaft was a joke! The most pathetic Pontiac ever manufactured! 😂
I had a 61 4 cylinder three speed The Paint fell off in large chunks The trans axel was a piece of shit.
juuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuunk
This is getting ridiculous. They weren’t even called muscle cars back and to call a four cylinder a “muscle car”, that’s kind of stretching it don’t you think? 🤔 you all want a see a true “muscle car “? Try the 2024 Toyota Corolla GR, it has a 3 cylinder engine ( yes you heard right) it has 300 HP and available only with a 5 manual transmission. It’ll run circles around this Corvair
What would the Corvair be like with the Toyota technology?
The 3/4 inch "shaft" instead of a normal drive shaft with u-joints has a tendency to snap in half. Tended to discourage owner. I remember my father's 63 having that happen way out in the boondocks. Was great fun waiting for Pontiac to get another solid shaft on bushing to replace it. He had to buy a second car to use during that time. Delorian designed. It figures
I am working on a 63 I pulled out of a barn after 50 years and have extensively researched this car. Yours is literally the only story I've ever heard of a rope drive snapping. Sounds like a fluke more than it does a "tendency to snap".
@@biffdelmonte4139 - That break happened a lot... especially after they put the 336" V8 in... some people never even made it home from the dealership...
Yes, in 1965 my 1963 Tempest Sports Coupe V-326, 3-speed manual broke as well. Dad got to toq mine back from San Antonio to Austin behind his 1964 Olds F-85. The Pontiac factory rep said "Sorry." Must've been a scratch on that fancy driveshaft when built that finally led to a fatigue failure. He couldn't help as I had it replaced by our local garage instead of the Pontiac dealer.
Loved the awesome car anyhow....
There is no such thing as a four cylinder muscle car.
^THIS
@@stevejones8660 I disagree.
12lb/hp? Or is it 10lb/hp
@@stoveguy2133 A four-cylider Volvo qualifies as a Musclecar?
I had a 62 with the 4 cylinder, 4 barrel carburetor.
Had one, slow and standard trans linkage was crap. Not a fav car...
It wassnt a muscle car it was one half of a 389 somtimes they put a 4 barrel carb from the factory
Had one in 1960 maybe it was a 61. The absolute worst car i have ever owned bar none! 4 cylinder 2 speed auto transmission could not get out of it's own weight. Timing chain would break about every 10K miles. You never knew if you were going to get where you were going. I sometimes have nightmares about this POS.
Hate the AI announcer.
LOL. This is not a muscle car. It was made before muscle cars were invented. There are no four cylinder muscle cars. Muscle cars are mid size cars with engines from full size cars. I eagerly await your upcoming video alleging a turbocharged Corvair is a muscle car. Or Maybe a Duster Twister. After all, it had hood scoops!
It's also not "forgotten" it's a friggin Tempest
@@MistahJigglah
Yea. I thought the bottom was calling any 60s 2 door V8 a forgotten muscle car but we've come to this. Waiting for someone to post a video about the Cosworth Vega. LOL.
You younger speed demons haven't been around long enough to know anything other than Mopar .
Usually, your relationship with cars involves loud exhaust, brickwalls, and handcuffs.
@@MrLeftfootlouie
Who are you posting to?
Nice acknowledgement that Mopar was the last player standing in the muscle car market.
Trans Ams did not “dominate pop culture.” Sorry.
You call the 4 cylinder Pontiac Tempest a "Muscle" Car. Bull Crap. You have never driven one obviously. you call yourself an "expert". The 4 cylinder Tempest was crap. Plagued with transmission problems as well as an engine that leaked like a sieve. I am 80 and I owned a Tempest as well as many other cars. Do your research, man before you "influence" others.. .
DEMOCRATS KILLED PONTIAC