As a WG engineer I can say that you are extremely lucky to get bosh dw with accessible panel at the bottom, if you get a new one, you wont have that luxury and access is only from sides or you have to flip it upside down and separate the base from the tank. In your previous video you showed signs that seal between tank and lower plastic tank is starting to fail, this will progress and at that point I would scrap it. Be mindful that leak is external to outside of dw so flood switch most likely won't be activated and there is a risk of slow long leak and damage to kitchen floor/units. Well done on repairs so far. You can test flood microswitch with simple continuity test with your multimeter, when pressed in, it should give you continuity. they are cheaply available separately as generic part, you don't have to but it as Bosch part. If switch is failing most likely is because water is leaking directly onto sw connectors or is activated very often (you may think that cycle has finished but in fact it was interrupted by leak and finished prematurely) And I would change video description to float switch or flood switch as its more accurate
Thanks Matt - that's very interesting. In actual fact the side leak did find it's way into the tray as it dripped down internally rather than down the side. Could be a deliberate part of the design. I'll change the Description 👍
I had an integrated Bosch DW and it developed a strange fault at approx 10 years old, it would intermittently cut out, but after a couple of days it would work again for a couple of weeks, our machine was slightly different than yours, I called in our local expert and he found a leak from the pump unit, there was a slight leak into the base tray which activated the flood switch, he ordered parts, when I saw that there were deposits around the water intake, simlar setup to yours, he said that it didnt need replacing, he returned with the parts and fitted them at a cost of £150, a week later we had exactly the same fault, when he called back he accepted that the slight leak from the water inlet assembly was a second fault that he should have repaired, the cost to replace this unit would have brought the total to over £350 so we scrapped it and his companty refunded the original charge, we now have a Miele! The intermittent fault was caused by the very slight water leak which allowed water to build up over a period of a few weeks, then this water evaporated during the period that the machine was out of action, this was in the summer so the water evaporated quite quickly.
I've just scrapped a 6 year old Bosch DW (Serie 8, c £750 new...) as the zeolite container had rusted through, that plus a few pipes gave close to a £300 parts bill. Bosch seemed quite happy that a sealed metal unit would rust through in that time, which was nice of them.. I had to take apart most of it to find this out though :). front, sides and top off, then on it's top to bend some metal tabs, release about 8 other tabs and a hose or 2 to finally get the base off. So to find out what had failed and how much it cost was a bit annoying after that .... So if anyone needs a bunch of working parts from a 2015/16 Bosch Serie 8 SMS88....;)
I love that you care! One thing that you are not costing into your figures though is the amount of time you have spent researching, buying, and repairing. If you did include those figures, I am sure you could have bought a new DW and had money to spare :D
It's a fair point a few of you have made. It's a difficult one to factor in though given my time is employed to make YT videos and the benefit they hopefully bring to a wider audience.
Another amazing video Charlie, like you i love repairing items instead of going to landfill but them words going to landfill you think big hole and throw it in. No it isn’t, a couple of years ago i think it was a documentary on how all those appliances you see in the council recycling yards get dealt with its worth looking it up it will open your eyes.
Not a dishwasher but our 35 year old Kenwood Chef went bang with a lot of smoke. Opened it up and a capacitor had blown. A kit to replace all the components was £10. Just needed some really basic soldering to replace everything (about five components) with the new ones put it back together and with a lot of anxiety switched it on. It worked and has been for nearly 4 years now. A new mixer would have been £270. While it was apart checked the mechanical components and they all seemed to be fine. Definitely worth considering a fix and repair before buying a new appliance. Our shower unit failed and the parts that needed replacing would have cost about half a new device and not guaranteed it would still work so for that it was easier to replace. I always look at the possibility of repairing something if possible but balance that with the cost of a new device. Older appliances were built to last. Our first washing machine lasted 20 years so before no spares were available. The replacement lasted on 10 years before it wasn't viable to repair.
A Kenwood mixer has significantly less parts to break and most of the older versions had metal gears instead of plastic in the modern ones. This makes it all the more worthwhile to fix if you can.
Every repair is a win for the environment. If you like your washer I'd favor repairs even multiple times. You'll get to know your machine which makes the next repair quicker/easier. The 50% cost seems like a sensible benchmark but i wouldn't aggregate the costs.
My integrated Neff dishwasher's about 12 now. A while ago, it was taking longer and longer and often stopped mid-cycle. I'd open the door and shut it again and it would start. I eventually realised that leaning on the door would make it wake up and carry on too, so it seemed to be the sensor/door catch that thought the door wasn't properly shut. I called the man out, £100, said it was fixed. After about a week, it was back to its old tricks. I solved it myself with a simple £1 rubber door stop that I just push in place at the top of the door. We refer to the door stop as "The On Switch" and it now washes perfectly every time.
You're welcome. Thanks for the comment and good luck with the repair. Just remember, if the float is sticking you might have a leak somewhere, that needs fixing. Otherwise the float wouldn't need to be kicking in.
@@CharlieDIYte I’ve cleaned it all and did some tests and it seems the dishwasher was leaning forward so I’ve raised the feet at the front which levelled it and it’s on its first clean since and we’ve not had leaks. It’s a used one we’ve only had a few months. Thanks Charlie, take care Darren
Hello again to you Charlie from South africa. Glad to see you could fix the dishwasher instead of taking it to the tip……in our house i am the dishwasher, and could definitely do with a makeover 🤣🤣
I gave life to a twenty year old Hotpoint washing machine, and was still working when we moved house and gave it away. It became a challenge in the end.🇬🇧🇦🇺😀
🛠Charlie DIYte Amazon Tool Store amzn.to/3fcLnY4 - all my tried, tested and much loved DIY tools. ☕Charlie DIYte Buy Me a Coffee Membership bit.ly/3xuQ3zb - access our incredible Discord DIY forum and help support my Channel. 👚Charlie DIYte Merch Store charlie-diyte.myspreadshop.co.uk/ - check out my professionally designed merch.
Your last dishwasher video gave me the confidence to get mine out and fix it when it broke last winter. In the end it was a faulty control board. I had raised the height of the integrated dishwasher a little a few months earlier when fitting new kickboards and dealing with draughty floors. I suspect this caused the board to get hotter due to less ventilation available above the machine as I saw some evidence of burned out components. Upshot is the knowledge gained from that exercise means I know how everything works now and I removed and installed the replacement dishwasher myself, something I wouldn't have had the confidence to do before. While there I also upgraded part of the drain system under the sink and bought a new Aquastop water inlet, not something a rushed dishwasher installer thinking about his next job would do. The old Hotpoint machine wasn't washing properly anyway, something I only realised when we used the replacement (a spare 2nd hand Bosch from eBay) for the first time. Totally agree to be thinking about when it is economical to ditch an appliance, but it's a great feeling to get something working again. Having sealed the two leaks, you should be good for a long while now.
Yes I agree. When I bought the house back in 2010 I would never have had the wherewithal to install something like this, but as you say, each job, even if unsuccessful ie because it can't be repaired, arms you with useful experience and skills for the next one. 👍
We had a dishwasher repair guy over to take a look at our dishwasher and he said it is not repairable and we need to get a new one. My dad came to visit, took it apart and found a rubber hoze was leaking onto the flood plate. We replaced the rubber hoze (it was glued in place) and put in a new hoze on some clips. It’s been working fine ever since.
Repairing is always better. I find if it's a few part's it's okay unless one of the oarts is half the cost then I weigh it up normal things like sensors seals etc I class as wear and tear no matter the age if the machine
Agreed. I think you have to draw the line at a couple of hundred quid for a control board, unless you take the view that these old machines are so much better quality than the new ones replacing them
I personally Charlie I had a same problem with my old dishwasher less then 2 years old and when I looked at the cost wasn't worth repairing so decided to get a new one for £200 enjoyed the video.
I agree that that should probably be your last repair. I did the same with my Bosch machine, when it failed again, I shopped around and got a nice new Bosch one for a good price. The only thing I noticed with the new one is that they don’t make them as robust as the old ones. The wire drawers and plastic spray arms are much thinner. That said, they’re much more economical to run. Cheers Charlie. How are the wardrobes holding up?
Good to hear from you Paul. Yes you're not the first to mention the quality issue. Loving the wardrobes. I just need to apply a protective finish to the inside of the doors to stop them getting scuffed by the drawers when they're accidentally not quite open to 90 degrees.
I have a similar brand of dishwasher. Replaced door springs and a couple of other small parts. E-spares is brilliant, used them to replace fridge, cooker and dishwasher parts. For me the decision on fix or not is similar thought process to yours, price of replacement parts against cost of new. The higher end the appliances more likely yup can get spares and it is also worth while against cost of new
Hi Charlie, when to quit repairing something can be a difficult call, we had a Hotpoint washer that I kept going for around 15yrs, whith pumps, hoses, and brushes, for the motor, but the day came when the programmer went, and faced whith £100 for a new one , we decided on a new washer, I think the cut off point comes when you start whith expensive parts, balanced against the cost of a new machine, in your case if the next problem is an expensive one to fix I think then it's time to call it a day and buy a new dishwasher, being an old sceptic I don't think white goods are lasting as long as they used to. As for factoring a cost for your time when fixing stuff, personally I don't bother, it's all part of Diy repairs, and you've saved a lot of labour/ call out charges on your dishwasher alone, I'm guessing if only 3 or 4 of those repairs you did had been done by a service engineer, then that machine would have been long gone, full mark's Charlie for your efforts . Thanks for the video, stay safe mate, best wishe's to you and your's, Stuart uk.
Thanks Stuart. I completely agree. Choosing a new one is difficult because I think you're right that they don't make them as well as they used to - a few comments in this feed bare testament to that. I'm certainly not going to buy an internet connected one - who needs to control their dishwasher remotely 🤦🏻♂️😏 I will be trying to find one with an all stainless steel inside though. On hols this summer there was an all metal Philips Whirlpool. Very quiet too. A few people have said I need to price in my labour. I've never really understood that for the reason you give, plus you can deduct a few quid per hour from your notional hourly charge for the satisfaction you get from fixing it. Cheers mate. 👊🏻
Omg my dishwasher literally stopped working last week and I'm still trying to work out why it stopped. Theres no power at all. Checked the socket, plug and fuse. Will check the switches.
When it comes to costing the repair, I think you (and anybody doing this themselves) should factor in a price per hour for your own labour. Even if you cost your labour at minimum wage, the repair costs start to climb up, potentially past the point of economical repair. Wheeler Dealers failed to factor in Ed China's labour charge for ten years, and I doubt they made a profit on any vehicle if they took that into consideration! Thanks for the great video by the way :-)
It's an interesting point that, and one a few people have made. Trouble is, factor in a labour cost and you'd never repair it, and there's a large satisfaction element, of feeling a bit epic for fixing something 😉
@@CharlieDIYte and don’t forget to factor in efficiency gains in water and electricity usage on newer models. I only buy inexpensive washing machines and dryers as I can’t see that expensive machines are any better, so for me cost per wash over time isn’t too bad. Just replaced a 13 year old John Lewis WM with a £400 Samsung. It’s quieter, faster, more economic to run, washes better and has a 10 year warranty on the motor. Agree with the satisfaction element though.
Another great video Charlie. It is a shame spare parts are just so damn expensive which makes repairing often not worth it despite as you show it being relatively easy to breath new life into an old machine. I am sure the costs of stocking these parts isn't cheap but the prices charged always seem very excessive to me. Hopefully the new laws about repairs coming in soon I think will help. When putting on rubber seals a little bit of silicone grease can really help them slide in and when you disconnect the water feed it is always worth taking the extra 30 seconds to pop on a stop end cap onto the isolation valve. Keep a couple in your tool box, they cost less than a quid and avoid the risk of any leaks should your isolation valve fail or have a slight leak. No one ever thinks they will but they do or the lever is turned by accident and you have a flood on your hands. This dish washer is starting to sound like Trigger's broom from Only Fools and Horses ;-) (search UA-cam if you don't know what that is)
You will know in a week or 2 of it was worthwhile based on how much it nags on your mind wondering if it is going to leak again soon. I think by now I would have replaced it - having just installed a new kitchen I wouldn't want a leaking appliance to damage the nearby carcases and doors.
Your main tank seal at the back is weeping leaking Also . Not repairable issue .when you replace make sure new one has full stainless steel tank higher cost equals quality mc.👍
Thanks Mark. I must have missed that. D'you mind pointing out where exactly that was? Yes totally agree on the all stainless steel bit. I went away a fare weeks ago and the rentall had a Phillips Whirlpool with all stainless steel. Think I'll go for something like that, next. I did aspire to having a cutlery tray rather than the bucket you lob everything in but having used one whilst away it seems much more of a faff!
The problem is it is never too old to be repaired, but actually, the issue lies in the fact it is designed to break which shows exactly why we need the right to repair.
Yes, I was going to mention the new legislation but deleted it for various reasons. Interestingly the legislation is designed to guarantee a 10 year life span. It's shocking that obsolescence currently doesn't guarantee this.
@@CharlieDIYte My problem with Right to Repair in Europe is that the new regulation guarantees far too little and for professional repairers. It is crippled from the outset as not to annoy manufacturers, it is a good step in the right direction but in my opinion, it doesn't go far enough. It should guarantee access to reasonably priced parts and repair manuals for everyone. In the past, I fixed my dishwasher by replacing a faulty heater. The problem was I had to wait a couple of months for the part to arrive and only to find out the replacement part died the same way as the original four months after the repair. This time I replaced the whole machine. I might have been unlucky, or the part was badly designed, or the whole dishwasher was terribly designed to last only a few years. I really do think we need proper legislation allowing us to keep fixing stuff instead of filling the landfill all the time. It really drives me crazy when products are designed to be thrown away when for example a battery dies (I work for the company that makes tire pressure monitoring sensors and these are potted so when the battery dies they have to be thrown away because there is no way to replace it.)
It's funny but I've asked a similar question recently. I have an 11 Yr old hotpoint washing machine and to date it's never missed a beat. But would I repair it? Probably not. After 10 years I think it'd be worth getting a new one for extra features and lower noise (I'd hope). BUT I'm hanging on in for ANOTHER 10 years! 😂
Hehehe funny, had the same problem at my aunts. Somewhere in the back, a hose was leaking a tiny bit, but enough to gather some liquid on the plate that covers the bottom Now there was a floater that switches the pump to off if the water would rise just before it would go over the edge of the bottom plate. dishwasher
I find bosch normally lasts 17 years. You seam to have trouble with rubber and plastic going hard early. I would of put amp clamp on switch wire as maybe motor failing and eating switch.
You just reminded me. I have a large modern Samsung fridge freezer. The fridge has stopped working but the freezer works. I wander if I could get a cheap fridge and take the compressor from it and fit it in my Samsung one. A money saving hack?
CT1 is fantastic, at work the air con fitters ran a water hose over a halogen GU10 which meted the pipe and water started to leak everywhere. Used CT1 on the pipe as water was coming out and if stopped the leak. 10 years on the pipe has not even dripped once. Question on your micro switch. When you click it with your finger does it feel normal or not? Does it meter out ok on continuity? The heat on the contacts might be loose spade connections on the plug as the wires to it look thin and would assume they would burn out 1st?
Question is though.... Will a replacement dishwasher last 10+ years? A quality Bosch of Neff dishwasher, hopefully, a cheaper Beko dishwasher, probably not in my opinion especially when it comes to parts availability.
My "quality" Bosch has broken down with E19 error after about 5 years, so much for quality! That could be £150 to fix with a pro or £40 if I could but I'm just poking about with a screwdriver. Try finding a shop manual, no chance.
There are many variables, such as function, features, energy efficency. I don't think the blanket 50% applies here. Degrees of economy vary for everyone, and I would also add your own labour costs.
I was thinking that too, but perhaps not as bad for something that runs for 30 minutes every couple of days as it would have been with a fridge or a freezer.
I don't think labour costs should be applied. Your choice to fix or replace is a function of your diy skill set and your desire to 'save' money and the planet.
@@grahamcox7235 the motivations are independent of the investment. Time is our most valuable commodity and even people who aren't working freelance projects have an idea of how much money they can make in an hour.
One not uncommon problem I've read about is where a glass/plate/etc breaks inside a dishwasher and some of the broken fragments get stuck in the pump and stop it working.
Our current dw is a bit under 30 years old. Mechanical push-button switches, not electronic panel. Just repaired. New pump, seals. Runs better than when it was new. If we'd bought a new appliance, the only ones available would have been intentionally built with a short life cycle. And I suspect, exorbitant failure-prone computer controls and electronic switches and displays... if you can even get the parts down the timeline. All this making future failure guaranteed and repairs impossible. We choose to rebuild if possible.
@@CharlieDIYte It's not a perfect dishwasher. (Sure, we'd like a new machine, there is something about this one that isn't optimum for us.) And of course, I now have an old dishwasher inside -- something else could fail, likely some small part like the one you show. But the older dishwashers were simpler, there was less to fail. (If it were three or ten years old I'd be more worried, which is ridiculous.) I value functionality more than "new but more likely to break." And actually the dishwasher looks new on the outside, other than having push-button switches. Looks of dishwashers haven't changed in all these years. I think the cost was about $70 or $100 U.S.? It took one evening of time. First rebuild in all those years, though we've had it open before, I think it was to clean out the pathways of accumulated grit? (Maybe that cost didn't include the seals, which were an afterthought? ) I looked at Lowe's. Cheapest d/w was $350 US, priciest $1200. To buy something comparable, I'd expect middle price range -- $750 or more to get something just -- basic and acceptable. Admittedly someone in the family has special skills and knowledge. Just experience mechanically. The main factor behind our choice to rebuild ... cheaper manufacturing of newer appliances, poorer design, more complicated design with parts that are going to fail. Twenty-five years ago, I probably would have chosen to replace the dishwasher. I expect I could have found a reliable one, maybe more energy efficient, that washed better? Fifteen years ago, or ten, I would have hesitated. A comparison: Our 10year old refrigerator which I otherwise like started failing, drawer plastic slides broken, after just 3 years. Our 42 year old refrigerator in the garage (kept for overflow) still has all drawers, glass shelves, and innards intact. No plastic breakages. It's had a couple of defrost timers or somesuch through the years, the simplest repairs. (We removed the ice maker as those are prone to failure sooner than the rest.)
BTW, I was meaning to ask. Do you know any upholtery supliers that have a decent price on foam sheet. Or have the prices gone thru the roof over the past 8 years? It used to be about £8 an inch for a sheet, now it's almost £40!
It’s like triggers broom, why is past spend a good reason to replace? If fixes are simple and cheap, maybe when a single fix exceeds a certain value it makes sense to ditch it, but cumulative spend has gone…
for me.. cost of parts, risk of daisy chain failure ( new parts handle pressure better so passes it on to the next weakest part) and the efficiency of a new model. The final factor... how much left in the bank to buy a new machine v the part to fix it again
Hi Charlie This video made me laugh…. Been there done that and got the t-shirt all the Same problems as you and I f@@ked it off bought a new one …simples Great video mate 👍👍👍👍
A mixture of both I suspect but fundamentally it's when the float rises and burns out the switch due to being continually on, which as you say is a design defect.
I absolutely commend your efforts in completing this repair and saving the machine, however, one factor that you have not considered here is the cost of your time.
I commented elsewhere on our recent [almost 30year old dishwasher] refurbishment - new pump, seals, a rebuild kit. It now works better than new. All in all it took a couple of hours. I think it was $70 to 100 US ? (Admittedly one person in our family has worked on dishwashers and mechanical things before. I would have hesitated myself.) There are other factors we considered, you'd have to see my other comment.
When doing a cost-benefit-analysis there are two primary scenarios to compare: 1) cost of repair inc. labour 2) cost of repair excl. labour As you have the skills to repair things yourself, your "do I replace?" threshold is very different to someone who has to pay for the repair service. So, since you don't include labour in the cost of repairs, I'd suggest that unless an individual failed component (in any single failure), costs over half the replacement cost, you should fix it every time. I don't think you should use the total cost of all replaced parts as your benchmark for appliance replacement. The parts you have replaced to date are largely consumables that wear out in usual operation anyway, hence their availability as spares i.e. they'll fail at the same frequency on a new appliance too. The components all have different duty cycles (life expectancy) and all start at "Day 1" at the same time.....until the first failure, which is why new appliances have a longer duration before first failure and then seem to have a trickle of further failures after that. If you were able to replace all commonly failing parts at the same time after "Failure 1", your whole appliance would be returned to its "Day 1" state and you could expect the long service interval of a new appliance.
@@enigmaticx326 I can't argue against that statement, but the approach would see a lot more going to scrap. I enjoy DIY/repairing and it has saved me a fortune over the years.
Agree with much of this. You also gain the skills to repair it yourself by spending the time repairing it, so that 2nd repair is quicker than the 1st :)
@@RetirementVille oh I enjoy DIY too - there’s not many things I won’t do myself. But I have a day job, and a pretty old house, and there’s only so much I can do on my own. Sometimes you’ve just gotta outsource. I recently got some repairs done on my car which I could have done myself, but I have too many other DIY projects on the go.
We have a Bosch dishwasher which cost under 250 pounds, which replaced a Samsung that cost the same and died after five or six years use (seemed like the control panel had a problem an the cycles went crazy). If and when this has a problem will just replace at the same price point unless I can repair it very simply myself. I don't like this throw away culture but economically repair people are not worth considering when we can fulfill our dishwashing needs for this outlay every few years.
can i pay for a new machine or is the fix cheaper . if the fix is something i can pay then yes, because a new machine i maybe cant buy cash and i should borrow money for what would not be a very well spend money idea. If i have a big sponsor on UA-cam who likes to give me a new machine then ok;)
It's unfortunate that the cost of repairs should be considered when cost to the environment is ignored. Second hand parts (specially the control board) are always options.
As a WG engineer I can say that you are extremely lucky to get bosh dw with accessible panel at the bottom, if you get a new one, you wont have that luxury and access is only from sides or you have to flip it upside down and separate the base from the tank. In your previous video you showed signs that seal between tank and lower plastic tank is starting to fail, this will progress and at that point I would scrap it. Be mindful that leak is external to outside of dw so flood switch most likely won't be activated and there is a risk of slow long leak and damage to kitchen floor/units. Well done on repairs so far. You can test flood microswitch with simple continuity test with your multimeter, when pressed in, it should give you continuity. they are cheaply available separately as generic part, you don't have to but it as Bosch part. If switch is failing most likely is because water is leaking directly onto sw connectors or is activated very often (you may think that cycle has finished but in fact it was interrupted by leak and finished prematurely)
And I would change video description to float switch or flood switch as its more accurate
Thanks Matt - that's very interesting. In actual fact the side leak did find it's way into the tray as it dripped down internally rather than down the side. Could be a deliberate part of the design. I'll change the Description 👍
I had an integrated Bosch DW and it developed a strange fault at approx 10 years old, it would intermittently cut out, but after a couple of days it would work again for a couple of weeks, our machine was slightly different than yours, I called in our local expert and he found a leak from the pump unit, there was a slight leak into the base tray which activated the flood switch, he ordered parts, when I saw that there were deposits around the water intake, simlar setup to yours, he said that it didnt need replacing, he returned with the parts and fitted them at a cost of £150, a week later we had exactly the same fault, when he called back he accepted that the slight leak from the water inlet assembly was a second fault that he should have repaired, the cost to replace this unit would have brought the total to over £350 so we scrapped it and his companty refunded the original charge, we now have a Miele! The intermittent fault was caused by the very slight water leak which allowed water to build up over a period of a few weeks, then this water evaporated during the period that the machine was out of action, this was in the summer so the water evaporated quite quickly.
I've just scrapped a 6 year old Bosch DW (Serie 8, c £750 new...) as the zeolite container had rusted through, that plus a few pipes gave close to a £300 parts bill. Bosch seemed quite happy that a sealed metal unit would rust through in that time, which was nice of them..
I had to take apart most of it to find this out though :). front, sides and top off, then on it's top to bend some metal tabs, release about 8 other tabs and a hose or 2 to finally get the base off. So to find out what had failed and how much it cost was a bit annoying after that ....
So if anyone needs a bunch of working parts from a 2015/16 Bosch Serie 8 SMS88....;)
Your videos are unique on UA-cam. You cover the most pertinent questions and explain things so well. Top marks.
Thanks, I really appreciate that. 👊
I love that you care! One thing that you are not costing into your figures though is the amount of time you have spent researching, buying, and repairing. If you did include those figures, I am sure you could have bought a new DW and had money to spare :D
It's a fair point a few of you have made. It's a difficult one to factor in though given my time is employed to make YT videos and the benefit they hopefully bring to a wider audience.
Another amazing video Charlie, like you i love repairing items instead of going to landfill but them words going to landfill you think big hole and throw it in.
No it isn’t, a couple of years ago i think it was a documentary on how all those appliances you see in the council recycling yards get dealt with its worth looking it up it will open your eyes.
Not a dishwasher but our 35 year old Kenwood Chef went bang with a lot of smoke. Opened it up and a capacitor had blown. A kit to replace all the components was £10. Just needed some really basic soldering to replace everything (about five components) with the new ones put it back together and with a lot of anxiety switched it on. It worked and has been for nearly 4 years now. A new mixer would have been £270. While it was apart checked the mechanical components and they all seemed to be fine. Definitely worth considering a fix and repair before buying a new appliance. Our shower unit failed and the parts that needed replacing would have cost about half a new device and not guaranteed it would still work so for that it was easier to replace. I always look at the possibility of repairing something if possible but balance that with the cost of a new device.
Older appliances were built to last. Our first washing machine lasted 20 years so before no spares were available. The replacement lasted on 10 years before it wasn't viable to repair.
A Kenwood mixer has significantly less parts to break and most of the older versions had metal gears instead of plastic in the modern ones. This makes it all the more worthwhile to fix if you can.
Excellent comment Glen. Out of interest how did you assemble the component list? Was it a lot of research or are these kits available?
Every repair is a win for the environment. If you like your washer I'd favor repairs even multiple times. You'll get to know your machine which makes the next repair quicker/easier. The 50% cost seems like a sensible benchmark but i wouldn't aggregate the costs.
My integrated Neff dishwasher's about 12 now. A while ago, it was taking longer and longer and often stopped mid-cycle. I'd open the door and shut it again and it would start. I eventually realised that leaning on the door would make it wake up and carry on too, so it seemed to be the sensor/door catch that thought the door wasn't properly shut. I called the man out, £100, said it was fixed. After about a week, it was back to its old tricks. I solved it myself with a simple £1 rubber door stop that I just push in place at the top of the door. We refer to the door stop as "The On Switch" and it now washes perfectly every time.
That's a neat work around, Gillian 👍
brilliant thanks, I recon my float is sticking and this video has helped me work out how I get it out to clean.
You're welcome. Thanks for the comment and good luck with the repair. Just remember, if the float is sticking you might have a leak somewhere, that needs fixing. Otherwise the float wouldn't need to be kicking in.
@@CharlieDIYte I’ve cleaned it all and did some tests and it seems the dishwasher was leaning forward so I’ve raised the feet at the front which levelled it and it’s on its first clean since and we’ve not had leaks.
It’s a used one we’ve only had a few months.
Thanks Charlie, take care Darren
Hello again to you Charlie from South africa. Glad to see you could fix the dishwasher instead of taking it to the tip……in our house i am the dishwasher, and could definitely do with a makeover 🤣🤣
You must get a machine Val. We were washing the dishes for a week during this repair and it nearly finished us off. 👍
@@CharlieDIYte oh i believe you
I gave life to a twenty year old Hotpoint washing machine, and was still working when we moved house and gave it away. It became a challenge in the end.🇬🇧🇦🇺😀
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Your last dishwasher video gave me the confidence to get mine out and fix it when it broke last winter. In the end it was a faulty control board. I had raised the height of the integrated dishwasher a little a few months earlier when fitting new kickboards and dealing with draughty floors. I suspect this caused the board to get hotter due to less ventilation available above the machine as I saw some evidence of burned out components.
Upshot is the knowledge gained from that exercise means I know how everything works now and I removed and installed the replacement dishwasher myself, something I wouldn't have had the confidence to do before. While there I also upgraded part of the drain system under the sink and bought a new Aquastop water inlet, not something a rushed dishwasher installer thinking about his next job would do.
The old Hotpoint machine wasn't washing properly anyway, something I only realised when we used the replacement (a spare 2nd hand Bosch from eBay) for the first time.
Totally agree to be thinking about when it is economical to ditch an appliance, but it's a great feeling to get something working again. Having sealed the two leaks, you should be good for a long while now.
Yes I agree. When I bought the house back in 2010 I would never have had the wherewithal to install something like this, but as you say, each job, even if unsuccessful ie because it can't be repaired, arms you with useful experience and skills for the next one. 👍
We had a dishwasher repair guy over to take a look at our dishwasher and he said it is not repairable and we need to get a new one. My dad came to visit, took it apart and found a rubber hoze was leaking onto the flood plate. We replaced the rubber hoze (it was glued in place) and put in a new hoze on some clips. It’s been working fine ever since.
Yes that's a familiar story. So satisfying that you breathed new life into it though. Great work 👍🏻
Repairing is always better. I find if it's a few part's it's okay unless one of the oarts is half the cost then I weigh it up normal things like sensors seals etc I class as wear and tear no matter the age if the machine
Agreed. I think you have to draw the line at a couple of hundred quid for a control board, unless you take the view that these old machines are so much better quality than the new ones replacing them
That was a brilliant video because we have a Bosch Dishwasher and it doesn't seem that difficult to repair.
Thanks Tahir 👍
I personally Charlie I had a same problem with my old dishwasher less then 2 years old and when I looked at the cost wasn't worth repairing so decided to get a new one for £200 enjoyed the video.
Hi mate, thanks for that! Sorry to hear it lasted such a short time but glad you've sorted it out 👍
I agree that that should probably be your last repair. I did the same with my Bosch machine, when it failed again, I shopped around and got a nice new Bosch one for a good price. The only thing I noticed with the new one is that they don’t make them as robust as the old ones. The wire drawers and plastic spray arms are much thinner. That said, they’re much more economical to run. Cheers Charlie. How are the wardrobes holding up?
Good to hear from you Paul. Yes you're not the first to mention the quality issue. Loving the wardrobes. I just need to apply a protective finish to the inside of the doors to stop them getting scuffed by the drawers when they're accidentally not quite open to 90 degrees.
I have a similar brand of dishwasher. Replaced door springs and a couple of other small parts. E-spares is brilliant, used them to replace fridge, cooker and dishwasher parts.
For me the decision on fix or not is similar thought process to yours, price of replacement parts against cost of new. The higher end the appliances more likely yup can get spares and it is also worth while against cost of new
Hi Charlie, when to quit repairing something can be a difficult call, we had a Hotpoint washer that I kept going for around 15yrs, whith pumps, hoses, and brushes, for the motor, but the day came when the programmer went, and faced whith £100 for a new one , we decided on a new washer, I think the cut off point comes when you start whith expensive parts, balanced against the cost of a new machine, in your case if the next problem is an expensive one to fix I think then it's time to call it a day and buy a new dishwasher, being an old sceptic I don't think white goods are lasting as long as they used to. As for factoring a cost for your time when fixing stuff, personally I don't bother, it's all part of Diy repairs, and you've saved a lot of labour/ call out charges on your dishwasher alone, I'm guessing if only 3 or 4 of those repairs you did had been done by a service engineer, then that machine would have been long gone, full mark's Charlie for your efforts . Thanks for the video, stay safe mate, best wishe's to you and your's, Stuart uk.
Thanks Stuart. I completely agree. Choosing a new one is difficult because I think you're right that they don't make them as well as they used to - a few comments in this feed bare testament to that. I'm certainly not going to buy an internet connected one - who needs to control their dishwasher remotely 🤦🏻♂️😏 I will be trying to find one with an all stainless steel inside though. On hols this summer there was an all metal Philips Whirlpool. Very quiet too. A few people have said I need to price in my labour. I've never really understood that for the reason you give, plus you can deduct a few quid per hour from your notional hourly charge for the satisfaction you get from fixing it. Cheers mate. 👊🏻
My plastic washing-up bowl is over 20 years old and still works perfectly....
👍🏻😉
Omg my dishwasher literally stopped working last week and I'm still trying to work out why it stopped. Theres no power at all. Checked the socket, plug and fuse. Will check the switches.
When it comes to costing the repair, I think you (and anybody doing this themselves) should factor in a price per hour for your own labour. Even if you cost your labour at minimum wage, the repair costs start to climb up, potentially past the point of economical repair. Wheeler Dealers failed to factor in Ed China's labour charge for ten years, and I doubt they made a profit on any vehicle if they took that into consideration!
Thanks for the great video by the way :-)
It's an interesting point that, and one a few people have made. Trouble is, factor in a labour cost and you'd never repair it, and there's a large satisfaction element, of feeling a bit epic for fixing something 😉
@@CharlieDIYte and don’t forget to factor in efficiency gains in water and electricity usage on newer models. I only buy inexpensive washing machines and dryers as I can’t see that expensive machines are any better, so for me cost per wash over time isn’t too bad. Just replaced a 13 year old John Lewis WM with a £400 Samsung. It’s quieter, faster, more economic to run, washes better and has a 10 year warranty on the motor. Agree with the satisfaction element though.
Great video on doing other repairs and very detailed 👍😃
Another great video Charlie. It is a shame spare parts are just so damn expensive which makes repairing often not worth it despite as you show it being relatively easy to breath new life into an old machine. I am sure the costs of stocking these parts isn't cheap but the prices charged always seem very excessive to me. Hopefully the new laws about repairs coming in soon I think will help.
When putting on rubber seals a little bit of silicone grease can really help them slide in and when you disconnect the water feed it is always worth taking the extra 30 seconds to pop on a stop end cap onto the isolation valve. Keep a couple in your tool box, they cost less than a quid and avoid the risk of any leaks should your isolation valve fail or have a slight leak. No one ever thinks they will but they do or the lever is turned by accident and you have a flood on your hands.
This dish washer is starting to sound like Trigger's broom from Only Fools and Horses ;-)
(search UA-cam if you don't know what that is)
Reminds me of Triggers Brush but job well done enjoyed the post
You will know in a week or 2 of it was worthwhile based on how much it nags on your mind wondering if it is going to leak again soon.
I think by now I would have replaced it - having just installed a new kitchen I wouldn't want a leaking appliance to damage the nearby carcases and doors.
its not a matter of age on a machine its a matter is this going to keep it alive for a few more years and if other parts are on their way out as well
Your main tank seal at the back is weeping leaking
Also .
Not repairable issue .when you replace make sure new one has full stainless steel tank higher cost equals quality mc.👍
Thanks Mark. I must have missed that. D'you mind pointing out where exactly that was? Yes totally agree on the all stainless steel bit. I went away a fare weeks ago and the rentall had a Phillips Whirlpool with all stainless steel. Think I'll go for something like that, next. I did aspire to having a cutlery tray rather than the bucket you lob everything in but having used one whilst away it seems much more of a faff!
The problem is it is never too old to be repaired, but actually, the issue lies in the fact it is designed to break which shows exactly why we need the right to repair.
Yes, I was going to mention the new legislation but deleted it for various reasons. Interestingly the legislation is designed to guarantee a 10 year life span. It's shocking that obsolescence currently doesn't guarantee this.
@@CharlieDIYte My problem with Right to Repair in Europe is that the new regulation guarantees far too little and for professional repairers. It is crippled from the outset as not to annoy manufacturers, it is a good step in the right direction but in my opinion, it doesn't go far enough. It should guarantee access to reasonably priced parts and repair manuals for everyone. In the past, I fixed my dishwasher by replacing a faulty heater. The problem was I had to wait a couple of months for the part to arrive and only to find out the replacement part died the same way as the original four months after the repair. This time I replaced the whole machine. I might have been unlucky, or the part was badly designed, or the whole dishwasher was terribly designed to last only a few years. I really do think we need proper legislation allowing us to keep fixing stuff instead of filling the landfill all the time. It really drives me crazy when products are designed to be thrown away when for example a battery dies (I work for the company that makes tire pressure monitoring sensors and these are potted so when the battery dies they have to be thrown away because there is no way to replace it.)
I have a Bosch freestanding series 2 the Check water light is blinking we have clean all filters we would like to get to the water float switch
It's funny but I've asked a similar question recently. I have an 11 Yr old hotpoint washing machine and to date it's never missed a beat. But would I repair it? Probably not. After 10 years I think it'd be worth getting a new one for extra features and lower noise (I'd hope).
BUT I'm hanging on in for ANOTHER 10 years! 😂
Hehehe funny, had the same problem at my aunts.
Somewhere in the back, a hose was leaking a tiny bit, but enough to gather some liquid on the plate that covers the bottom
Now there was a floater that switches the pump to off if the water would rise just before it would go over the edge of the bottom plate.
dishwasher
I find bosch normally lasts 17 years. You seam to have trouble with rubber and plastic going hard early. I would of put amp clamp on switch wire as maybe motor failing and eating switch.
Thanks Ian. Yes I should have got the continuity tester on those switches
You just reminded me. I have a large modern Samsung fridge freezer. The fridge has stopped working but the freezer works. I wander if I could get a cheap fridge and take the compressor from it and fit it in my Samsung one. A money saving hack?
I always go by 10 years old bin it. Because as sure as eggs are eggs something as will go wrong.
CT1 is fantastic, at work the air con fitters ran a water hose over a halogen GU10 which meted the pipe and water started to leak everywhere. Used CT1 on the pipe as water was coming out and if stopped the leak. 10 years on the pipe has not even dripped once.
Question on your micro switch. When you click it with your finger does it feel normal or not? Does it meter out ok on continuity? The heat on the contacts might be loose spade connections on the plug as the wires to it look thin and would assume they would burn out 1st?
Question is though.... Will a replacement dishwasher last 10+ years? A quality Bosch of Neff dishwasher, hopefully, a cheaper Beko dishwasher, probably not in my opinion especially when it comes to parts availability.
My "quality" Bosch has broken down with E19 error after about 5 years, so much for quality! That could be £150 to fix with a pro or £40 if I could but I'm just poking about with a screwdriver. Try finding a shop manual, no chance.
Just wondering when I lift float switch on Bosch dishwasher instead of stopping water it start water pump pump in?????
There are many variables, such as function, features, energy efficency.
I don't think the blanket 50% applies here. Degrees of economy vary for everyone, and I would also add your own labour costs.
I was thinking that too, but perhaps not as bad for something that runs for 30 minutes every couple of days as it would have been with a fridge or a freezer.
I don't think labour costs should be applied. Your choice to fix or replace is a function of your diy skill set and your desire to 'save' money and the planet.
@@grahamcox7235 the motivations are independent of the investment. Time is our most valuable commodity and even people who aren't working freelance projects have an idea of how much money they can make in an hour.
One not uncommon problem I've read about is where a glass/plate/etc breaks inside a dishwasher and some of the broken fragments get stuck in the pump and stop it working.
Yes, that's a good point.
Our current dw is a bit under 30 years old. Mechanical push-button switches, not electronic panel. Just repaired. New pump, seals. Runs better than when it was new.
If we'd bought a new appliance, the only ones available would have been intentionally built with a short life cycle. And I suspect, exorbitant failure-prone computer controls and electronic switches and displays... if you can even get the parts down the timeline. All this making future failure guaranteed and repairs impossible. We choose to rebuild if possible.
That sounds perfect. 👍
@@CharlieDIYte It's not a perfect dishwasher. (Sure, we'd like a new machine, there is something about this one that isn't optimum for us.) And of course, I now have an old dishwasher inside -- something else could fail, likely some small part like the one you show.
But the older dishwashers were simpler, there was less to fail. (If it were three or ten years old I'd be more worried, which is ridiculous.)
I value functionality more than "new but more likely to break." And actually the dishwasher looks new on the outside, other than having push-button switches. Looks of dishwashers haven't changed in all these years.
I think the cost was about $70 or $100 U.S.? It took one evening of time. First rebuild in all those years, though we've had it open before, I think it was to clean out the pathways of accumulated grit? (Maybe that cost didn't include the seals, which were an afterthought? ) I looked at Lowe's. Cheapest d/w was $350 US, priciest $1200. To buy something comparable, I'd expect middle price range -- $750 or more to get something just -- basic and acceptable.
Admittedly someone in the family has special skills and knowledge. Just experience mechanically.
The main factor behind our choice to rebuild ... cheaper manufacturing of newer appliances, poorer design, more complicated design with parts that are going to fail. Twenty-five years ago, I probably would have chosen to replace the dishwasher. I expect I could have found a reliable one, maybe more energy efficient, that washed better? Fifteen years ago, or ten, I would have hesitated.
A comparison: Our 10year old refrigerator which I otherwise like started failing, drawer plastic slides broken, after just 3 years. Our 42 year old refrigerator in the garage (kept for overflow) still has all drawers, glass shelves, and innards intact. No plastic breakages. It's had a couple of defrost timers or somesuch through the years, the simplest repairs. (We removed the ice maker as those are prone to failure sooner than the rest.)
BTW, I was meaning to ask. Do you know any upholtery supliers that have a decent price on foam sheet. Or have the prices gone thru the roof over the past 8 years? It used to be about £8 an inch for a sheet, now it's almost £40!
No I'm afraid the price of foam has risen a lot recently, along with everything else
+1 for cramer :)
It’s like triggers broom, why is past spend a good reason to replace? If fixes are simple and cheap, maybe when a single fix exceeds a certain value it makes sense to ditch it, but cumulative spend has gone…
Agreed Kevin, particularly as I'm hearing Bosch appliances now aren't built to the same standard as even this one.
for me.. cost of parts, risk of daisy chain failure ( new parts handle pressure better so passes it on to the next weakest part) and the efficiency of a new model.
The final factor... how much left in the bank to buy a new machine v the part to fix it again
Yes, I agree.
I stop fixing things when the repair costs more then the thing I'm fixing or plastered in security screws or just completely destroyed
Did you know that someone had been hammering multiple nails into the cabinet the other side of the Belfast sink?
Hi Charlie
This video made me laugh…. Been there done that and got the t-shirt all the Same problems as you and I f@@ked it off bought a new one …simples
Great video mate 👍👍👍👍
Thanks Carl. At some point you do have to accept defeat. That'll be the last repair I do on this one. 👍🏻
At 10 years and above I'd just buy a new one and replace.. 👍
Yes it's definitely getting to that point.
Seems those switches aren't correctly rated if they keep burning out. Or planned future spares sales ploy
A mixture of both I suspect but fundamentally it's when the float rises and burns out the switch due to being continually on, which as you say is a design defect.
I absolutely commend your efforts in completing this repair and saving the machine, however, one factor that you have not considered here is the cost of your time.
time spend well with a happy wife, non screaming kids that need to do dishes and me getting a nice diy day... Im not sure its a problem;)
I commented elsewhere on our recent [almost 30year old dishwasher] refurbishment - new pump, seals, a rebuild kit. It now works better than new. All in all it took a couple of hours. I think it was $70 to 100 US ? (Admittedly one person in our family has worked on dishwashers and mechanical things before. I would have hesitated myself.) There are other factors we considered, you'd have to see my other comment.
When doing a cost-benefit-analysis there are two primary scenarios to compare:
1) cost of repair inc. labour
2) cost of repair excl. labour
As you have the skills to repair things yourself, your "do I replace?" threshold is very different to someone who has to pay for the repair service.
So, since you don't include labour in the cost of repairs, I'd suggest that unless an individual failed component (in any single failure), costs over half the replacement cost, you should fix it every time.
I don't think you should use the total cost of all replaced parts as your benchmark for appliance replacement. The parts you have replaced to date are largely consumables that wear out in usual operation anyway, hence their availability as spares i.e. they'll fail at the same frequency on a new appliance too.
The components all have different duty cycles (life expectancy) and all start at "Day 1" at the same time.....until the first failure, which is why new appliances have a longer duration before first failure and then seem to have a trickle of further failures after that. If you were able to replace all commonly failing parts at the same time after "Failure 1", your whole appliance would be returned to its "Day 1" state and you could expect the long service interval of a new appliance.
Even DIYers should put a value on their time. If you do a lot of DIY there’s always more things you could fix/build/etc than hours in the day.
@@enigmaticx326 I can't argue against that statement, but the approach would see a lot more going to scrap. I enjoy DIY/repairing and it has saved me a fortune over the years.
Agree with much of this. You also gain the skills to repair it yourself by spending the time repairing it, so that 2nd repair is quicker than the 1st :)
@@RetirementVille oh I enjoy DIY too - there’s not many things I won’t do myself. But I have a day job, and a pretty old house, and there’s only so much I can do on my own. Sometimes you’ve just gotta outsource. I recently got some repairs done on my car which I could have done myself, but I have too many other DIY projects on the go.
@@enigmaticx326 yeah, I get that. I guess I'm lucky, I have the time. The only thing I outsource is plastering cos that's not engineering, it's art!
We have a Bosch dishwasher which cost under 250 pounds, which replaced a Samsung that cost the same and died after five or six years use (seemed like the control panel had a problem an the cycles went crazy). If and when this has a problem will just replace at the same price point unless I can repair it very simply myself. I don't like this throw away culture but economically repair people are not worth considering when we can fulfill our dishwashing needs for this outlay every few years.
Dishwashers don't go to landfill. They are broken down and recycled.
🤣🤣
You paid £66 for a couple of standard micro switches!
From memory they're £22inc VAT and I paid for expedited postage. Ridiculous I know but when you've got a machine out of action and a video to do ...
So basically your saying bin every machine once it's out of warranty
Honestly? Do you know how many times I've repaired this dishwasher? No I'm not saying that at all.
50percent of a new machine not your original cost
can i pay for a new machine or is the fix cheaper . if the fix is something i can pay then yes, because a new machine i maybe cant buy cash and i should borrow money for what would not be a very well spend money idea. If i have a big sponsor on UA-cam who likes to give me a new machine then ok;)
You are better buying a Miele they last about 20 years !
It's unfortunate that the cost of repairs should be considered when cost to the environment is ignored. Second hand parts (specially the control board) are always options.
That is a valid point 👍
Scrap.
Hi Charlie, are you single? ;)
Nope 😉
cant hardlly understand u u talk funny