Wow 😮. Watching your videos is like reading a Masters thesis in comparative literature and culture. There are so many threads and knots tieing together the SF genre together. I wondered for ages the significance of Gully Foyle as the name of the anti hero.
I was introduced to Blake (and shame on me for not having studied him in school) through music, in the form of Emerson, Lake & Palmer. That said, Dumas, Defoe, Dickens, Blake, Bester - a rogues gallery of giants, truly, and leave it to you, Stephen, to bring them together like this and share your inimitable insights in this excellent episode of Outlaw Bookseller. Good stuff old chap! Loved it. Cheers.
Cheers, Dean of Men! I think I discovered most of these for myself, through references in everything from tv to comic books to rock and roll, same as yourself. The purveyors of popular culture back then were regularly derided, but more often than not they had done some reading themselves...
Tiger has been one of my top 3 since the mid-sixties. I had the paperback with Gully wearing a bowtie and obvious whiskers. I read it religiously every year for 6 or 7 years. Marvelous book.
My pleasure. There's a cliche about great artists stealing from others, but I disagree- instead, they're inspired by approach, homage it and create something new. Bester also read Joyce and took his approach to words and weaved it into his style as well. All truly great writers have an awareness of what has gone before.
Thanks Paul. I don't do many of these as they simply don't get many views, though I enjoy doing them. That's the trouble with youtube- it's not how many subscribers you get, it's the views: if everyone who subscribed for the 'top 10' material watched the rest, I'd be a happier camper- and of course they'd learn more and not have to watch so many clickbaity videos....
@@outlawbookselleroriginal Yeah, I hear you. If there was any justice in the UA-cam universe, this astonishingly comprehensive video would go viral... Sigh 😔
Thank you, Professor Andrews, for your thoughts on what is undoubtedly one of the greatest SF novels. As you know, "Tiger! Tiger!" was published in the UK by Sidgwick & Jackson before the American variant, "The Stars My Destination", was published. There are substantial differences between the two versions. When I met Bester in London, at the launch party for "Extro", I made a point of asking him which version was his preferred text. He told me that text changes had been made to "Tiger! Tiger!" for its magazine serialisation in the USA and that these changes had been retained for the Ametican book publication, a paperback. Uncategorically, his preferred text, and title, were the Sidgwick edition. I've no idea which text version is now used in UK editions.
Thanks for this, James. Similarly, I'm uncertain which variant Gollancz uses. I should try and pick up an older US edition and do a comparison, but if Alfie B preferred the Sidgwick- which I'm sure the Penguin and Goodchild editions draw on off the top of my head- I'm happy with that. Hope you are well, mate.
A great episode on a great book. I read this book back in late 50s as an 8 year old and was forever hooked on SF. Thanks for bringing back a lovely memory Stephen. I've been looking for a copy of Tyger Tyger with the skull like illustration on the cover but they're very hard to find 😢
An absolutely marvelous exposition, probably one of your best videos, you should be teaching much in the spirit of Robert Silverberg, who through his nonfiction was thought to be a teacher. Having worked for 35 yesrs as s teacher, I can attest to the veracity of my statement. On another note, would you include Melmoth the Wanderer, Charles Mathurin, with the creature of Frankenstein, and Gully Foyle as outsiders in literature.
Yes, of course- the original Gothic antiheroes like Melmoth- and the fullblown villainous ones, such as Lewis' 'The Monk' and Beckford's 'Vathek' are classic antiheroes of a blacker stripe, but all part of the mix- the Gothic emerged as an extreme example of Romanticism. I read all this stuff many decades ago, as torruous as some of it is prose-wise.
Thanks very much. I think there's way too much revisionist around Bester being spouted by those who only seem to have a background in reading SF- and they often don't realise that he was an idol of earlier generations of SF fans back to the 1950s (first Hugo winner, after all). The over-emphasis of Bester in mentions of Cyberpunk is one example of this.
Alfred Bester's novel also inspired an Australian comic book adaptation called Gully Foyle , which was illustrated by artists Reg and Stanley Pitt. I read about it in a blog about Australian comic strips a few years ago.
Ayooo Outlaw. With this video, I do believe you may have outdone yourself; exceptional, substantive content. Great channel. Much respect from someone who prefers to call the genre Sci Fi ✌🏼😁
Hello old friend. I have good news, I managed to get another copy of "Fall of chronopolis." And the Royal Mail didn't lose it. I don't know when I'll get to it though, I've brought far too many books this year, I read one or two a week but my to be read pile will probably keep me occupied for next year! I think my book buying might be as much apart of my hobby as my book reading!
I too have ordered a dodgy looking copy of "Fall of Chronopolis" along with too many other books I can neither afford nor store! It's like a neo-capitalist nihilist virus!
Lots of literary influences...impressive comparisons. The Canadian literary critic, Northrop Frye wrote his commentary on Blake and titled it Fearful Symmetry. I knew about the influence of Dumas. Dumas' influence can also be seen in Zelazny's, Nine Princes in Amber.
Love your Blake intro. One of the most poetic writers is Roger Zelazny (Lord of Light etc.) and of another style Kurt Vonnegut. In the UK Brian Aldiss could be poetic, especially in that order vs chaos book of his (forgot title - read it about 5 years ago).
Well, what is prose without its poetic aspect, that which draws put pleasure in the use of vocabulary? Aldiss is a rich one, but then being someone who revels in the English Literary Genre SF tradition, he and his contemporaries are my formative influences.
Read Tiger Tiger earlier this year and its a tour de force. I found Bester's collection Starburst second hand the other day and i was wondering you thoughts on it. You've spoken at length about Dark Side of the Earth and its of his classic period so i am presuming it delivers the goods
I know there's any number of ways to interpret bits of Moby Dick, but relevant to what you were saying (comparing him to Queequeg) is the idea that he represents death, and Ishmael has wedded himself to death at the beginning of this adventure. Instead of getting this story from the point of view of the passive comical fish out of water observer ( Ishmael) this time we see the adventure from the point of view of the man made savage, the civilized man tattooed like Queequeg to begin his adventure. Melville's dry sense of humor and absurdity is often overlooked. Especially in the 40s and 50s. It doesn't surprise me someone using the classics as resonantive templates in the 50s would see everything so desperate and so seriously. I just looked up a bunch of quotes from the text about their marriage and realized that it was ponderous to include them here, but I can supply upon request.
I think that's why MB is so incredible- and Melville so ahead of his time: he puts so much into the texts, often subtly, that you can read them again and find new meanings. I find him almost unassailable-when I read 'The Confidence Man : His Masquerade',he seemed to be ahead of everyone buy 30-50 years....
We all want more Charles Logan - but we don't get any more, sadly. There are a few stories scattered in anthologies I seem to recall, I must drag these together.
Excelent analysis of the literary influences for Bester's great novel, only slightly marred by the unnecessary reference to JG Ballard---in the video title as well! Why?! Tiger!Tiger! Is way beyond' anything done by Ballard, a true SF masterpiece(despite all the space stuff!) Don't quite agree with your take on the meaning of the jaunte, though. It's one of the least scientific aspects in the story, almost like a superpower, inspired more by pulp than Dickens, imo. This one I did re-read several times, though. It never seems to grow old...
The Ballard mention was more of an adjunct to the Melville and Swift material and I admit it could have been more elegantly linked- I thought this myself on playback- but I don't tight-script these things, I may make a few bullet point notes then riff off them. The Gulliver-Drowned Giant-Meliville-Tiger link was too good for menot to have an opportunity to mention one of my favourite short stories. Can't agree Bester always trumps Ballard, by the way, they were different kinds of writer, but I think they would have hit it off, both being outsiders in the Genre SF world. As for Jaunting, it may be one of the 'least' scientific aspects of the story, but it's not the supernatural, is it? I don't link it to DIckens, I link the multiple attempts by researchers to kill Jaunte to try and analyse how he teleports as a classic example of the scientific method- theory, repeated experimentation and proof: and it works scientifically in the novel as soon, they can teach everyone to do it. 'Superpower' and 'Pulp' are not specific enough terms here to disallow the Jaunte as an SF trope. I agree, though, that Bester does not age- and I think that's because of the Classical storytelling approach as influenced by the works I cite plus the addition of literary techniques from Modernism like Concrete Poetry and other typographical experiments. Bester also tapped into Beat Generation/50s hep cat dialogue and references which put him ahead of the New Wave. If you haven't read his short stories, seek them out as they are even better...
@@outlawbookselleroriginal I'd say that jaunting sure seems like something out of the Paranormal, at least at first. But Bester takes It one step beyond' by making It something everyone(or almost) can learn, thus giving It a kind of "evolutionary" aspect. In any case, the boundary between the material and 'other' world seems largely imaginary, at least according to Patrick Harpur, whose The Philosopher's Secret Fire I'm currently reading(and strongly recommend). Gully Foyle sure seems to transcend the boundary as the timeless Burning Man... Have read some of Bester's other work, and a couple of short story collections, but It seems to me that Tiger!Tiger! and The Demolished Man were his peak performances, by far.
@@luiznogueira1579 The point is that Bester does not offer a paranormal explanation for the Novum of Jaunting. If he had, we'd be in Fantasy territory-, as the 'explanation' would be a magical anachronism- look closely at the text at the section where the scientists try and explain the jaunte.
No, it's an influence over Cyberpunk, but it cannot be seriously claimed for the subgenre: it has more of a claim to be a New Wave novel, and even then it's not one, for as with the Cyberpunk claim, it's too early in the development of Genre SF - it's a matter of chronology as well as detail- It lacks all the elements that would comprise Cyberpunk. Later works by Delany and Budrys would have more of a claim, but again, they won't wash: Cyberpunk began to coalese proper at the very end of the 1970s and not before. Watch my video 'Who Put the Punk in Cyberpunk?'.
All good points, but when Gully Foyle gets his whole body retooled on Mars, that's practically a foundational aspect of cyberpunk in my opinion. With interesting echos (Mars) for Man Plus.
@@kid5Media Yes, it's regarded as foundational, but machine-human interfaces are only one aspect of Cyberpunk- his attitude as a character is arguably more important in this respect, but most significant is the fact that Gibson cites Bester's style of writing in the book as influential over him. 'The Demolished Man' depicts corporate power in a manner that foreshadows the dominance of corporations in Cyberpunk, but pick through the history of SF from the 1950s to late 1970s and there are numerous taproot texts- the most neglected of which is Budrys' Michelmas'.
I found The Drowned Giant too predictable. It would have been more interesting if they'd found an alien artifact in his stomach that allowed the munchkins to multiply in size or that the giant is some kind of mechanised or organic spaceship...
You've entirely missed the point of the story. Your expectation of Ballard here is that he is a conventional 'sci-fi' writer, which he was not. As I said in a recent video title 'Maybe Your Expectations Are The Problem?'. Why do you read SF? To fulfill the need for familiar tropes, most of which you encountered on screens before you started reading widely in the genre? Ballard is writing here as much about the psyche of the people who visit the giant, in search of wonder and he never seeks to 'explain' the mystery of the giants' origin as that would arguably remove the poetry of the story's images. I'd say your expectation of Ballard as a 'Sci-Fi' writer is what's predictable here- Ballard was about expanding the horizons of the genre into Inner Space, of encouraging people to look at how their minds are altered by the unusual. This is why Ballard is revered as one of the greatest writers to ever emerge from Genre SF.
Absolutely brilliant insights!
Thanks, old chum!
The professor is IN... another wonderful lesson!!
Salutations to you!
Wow 😮. Watching your videos is like reading a Masters thesis in comparative literature and culture. There are so many threads and knots tieing together the SF genre together. I wondered for ages the significance of Gully Foyle as the name of the anti hero.
I was introduced to Blake (and shame on me for not having studied him in school) through music, in the form of Emerson, Lake & Palmer. That said, Dumas, Defoe, Dickens, Blake, Bester - a rogues gallery of giants, truly, and leave it to you, Stephen, to bring them together like this and share your inimitable insights in this excellent episode of Outlaw Bookseller. Good stuff old chap! Loved it. Cheers.
Cheers, Dean of Men! I think I discovered most of these for myself, through references in everything from tv to comic books to rock and roll, same as yourself. The purveyors of popular culture back then were regularly derided, but more often than not they had done some reading themselves...
25 mins of unadulterated joy. Thank you again
Thank you, very kind.
Brilliant video Steve. One of your best. This goes straight in to my BookTube's greatest playlist.
You're very kind, thank you.
Tiger has been one of my top 3 since the mid-sixties. I had the paperback with Gully wearing a bowtie and obvious whiskers. I read it religiously every year for 6 or 7 years. Marvelous book.
Yes, that was one of the Penguin covers I seem to recall. A stone classic!
I now have a deeper appreciation of this excellent book. Thanks!
My pleasure. There's a cliche about great artists stealing from others, but I disagree- instead, they're inspired by approach, homage it and create something new. Bester also read Joyce and took his approach to words and weaved it into his style as well. All truly great writers have an awareness of what has gone before.
Wow. What an _amazing_ video. Easily the best deep-dive essay you have yet produced. I salute you, sir! 🫡
Thanks Paul. I don't do many of these as they simply don't get many views, though I enjoy doing them. That's the trouble with youtube- it's not how many subscribers you get, it's the views: if everyone who subscribed for the 'top 10' material watched the rest, I'd be a happier camper- and of course they'd learn more and not have to watch so many clickbaity videos....
@@outlawbookselleroriginal Yeah, I hear you. If there was any justice in the UA-cam universe, this astonishingly comprehensive video would go viral... Sigh 😔
Thank you, Professor Andrews, for your thoughts on what is undoubtedly one of the greatest SF novels.
As you know, "Tiger! Tiger!" was published in the UK by Sidgwick & Jackson before the American variant, "The Stars My Destination", was published. There are substantial differences between the two versions. When I met Bester in London, at the launch party for "Extro", I made a point of asking him which version was his preferred text. He told me that text changes had been made to "Tiger! Tiger!" for its magazine serialisation in the USA and that these changes had been retained for the Ametican book publication, a paperback. Uncategorically, his preferred text, and title, were the Sidgwick edition. I've no idea which text version is now used in UK editions.
Thanks for this, James. Similarly, I'm uncertain which variant Gollancz uses. I should try and pick up an older US edition and do a comparison, but if Alfie B preferred the Sidgwick- which I'm sure the Penguin and Goodchild editions draw on off the top of my head- I'm happy with that. Hope you are well, mate.
A great episode on a great book. I read this book back in late 50s as an 8 year old and was forever hooked on SF. Thanks for bringing back a lovely memory Stephen. I've been looking for a copy of Tyger Tyger with the skull like illustration on the cover but they're very hard to find 😢
An absolutely marvelous exposition, probably one of your best videos, you should be teaching much in the spirit of Robert Silverberg, who through his nonfiction was thought to be a teacher. Having worked for 35 yesrs as s teacher, I can attest to the veracity of my statement.
On another note, would you include Melmoth the Wanderer, Charles Mathurin, with the creature of Frankenstein, and Gully Foyle as outsiders in literature.
Yes, of course- the original Gothic antiheroes like Melmoth- and the fullblown villainous ones, such as Lewis' 'The Monk' and Beckford's 'Vathek' are classic antiheroes of a blacker stripe, but all part of the mix- the Gothic emerged as an extreme example of Romanticism. I read all this stuff many decades ago, as torruous as some of it is prose-wise.
Top 5 episode!! And most interesting video on Bester I’ve seen.
Thanks very much. I think there's way too much revisionist around Bester being spouted by those who only seem to have a background in reading SF- and they often don't realise that he was an idol of earlier generations of SF fans back to the 1950s (first Hugo winner, after all). The over-emphasis of Bester in mentions of Cyberpunk is one example of this.
Alfred Bester's novel also inspired an Australian comic book adaptation called Gully Foyle , which was illustrated by artists Reg and Stanley Pitt. I read about it in a blog about Australian comic strips a few years ago.
Ayooo Outlaw. With this video, I do believe you may have outdone yourself; exceptional, substantive content. Great channel.
Much respect from someone who prefers to call the genre Sci Fi ✌🏼😁
Much appreciated.
Hello old friend. I have good news, I managed to get another copy of "Fall of chronopolis." And the Royal Mail didn't lose it. I don't know when I'll get to it though, I've brought far too many books this year, I read one or two a week but my to be read pile will probably keep me occupied for next year! I think my book buying might be as much apart of my hobby as my book reading!
I too have ordered a dodgy looking copy of "Fall of Chronopolis" along with too many other books I can neither afford nor store! It's like a neo-capitalist nihilist virus!
Excellent news! Bayley has the kind of strange widescreen baroque that Bester displayed, but on a smaller budget.
Thanks, this video was awesome! I've read some 35 classic SF novels this year, many inspired by your videos, and 'Tiger!, Tiger!' is in my top three.
Always a winner. Do read 'The Demolished Man' if you haven't yet.
Thanks Steve
Many thanks to you, Greg, much appreciated, Super Thanks helps this channel keep going.
Thanks Steve outstanding stuff
You're very kind, mate, thank you!
I enjoyed the drowned giant a few days ago. Really nice.
Superb story.
Like the opening paragraphs of that Tiger book...
Great video on a super duper book. :)
Thanks!
Lots of literary influences...impressive comparisons. The Canadian literary critic, Northrop Frye wrote his commentary on Blake and titled it Fearful Symmetry. I knew about the influence of Dumas. Dumas' influence can also be seen in Zelazny's, Nine Princes in Amber.
Yes. I love 'Nine Princes'.
Love your Blake intro. One of the most poetic writers is Roger Zelazny (Lord of Light etc.) and of another style Kurt Vonnegut. In the UK Brian Aldiss could be poetic, especially in that order vs chaos book of his (forgot title - read it about 5 years ago).
Well, what is prose without its poetic aspect, that which draws put pleasure in the use of vocabulary? Aldiss is a rich one, but then being someone who revels in the English Literary Genre SF tradition, he and his contemporaries are my formative influences.
Read Tiger Tiger earlier this year and its a tour de force. I found Bester's collection Starburst second hand the other day and i was wondering you thoughts on it. You've spoken at length about Dark Side of the Earth and its of his classic period so i am presuming it delivers the goods
'Starburst' is great, just not as good as 'Dark Side' as a whole- it's still an essential book for any serious collection of short SF.
I know there's any number of ways to interpret bits of Moby Dick, but relevant to what you were saying (comparing him to Queequeg) is the idea that he represents death, and Ishmael has wedded himself to death at the beginning of this adventure. Instead of getting this story from the point of view of the passive comical fish out of water observer ( Ishmael) this time we see the adventure from the point of view of the man made savage, the civilized man tattooed like Queequeg to begin his adventure. Melville's dry sense of humor and absurdity is often overlooked. Especially in the 40s and 50s. It doesn't surprise me someone using the classics as resonantive templates in the 50s would see everything so desperate and so seriously.
I just looked up a bunch of quotes from the text about their marriage and realized that it was ponderous to include them here, but I can supply upon request.
I think that's why MB is so incredible- and Melville so ahead of his time: he puts so much into the texts, often subtly, that you can read them again and find new meanings. I find him almost unassailable-when I read 'The Confidence Man : His Masquerade',he seemed to be ahead of everyone buy 30-50 years....
I want more Charles Logan!
We all want more Charles Logan - but we don't get any more, sadly. There are a few stories scattered in anthologies I seem to recall, I must drag these together.
Agree, Tiger Tiger much better title, although I might be tempted to call it The Attack of the Naked Plasticine Whirling Cactus 😅
Have you seen the Love, Death & Robots adaption of The Drowned Giant? I thought they effed it up a bit but would love to hear your view.
Can't say I have, I will take a look.
Excelent analysis of the literary influences for Bester's great novel, only slightly marred by the unnecessary reference to JG Ballard---in the video title as well! Why?! Tiger!Tiger! Is way beyond' anything done by Ballard, a true SF masterpiece(despite all the space stuff!) Don't quite agree with your take on the meaning of the jaunte, though. It's one of the least scientific aspects in the story, almost like a superpower, inspired more by pulp than Dickens, imo. This one I did re-read several times, though. It never seems to grow old...
The Ballard mention was more of an adjunct to the Melville and Swift material and I admit it could have been more elegantly linked- I thought this myself on playback- but I don't tight-script these things, I may make a few bullet point notes then riff off them. The Gulliver-Drowned Giant-Meliville-Tiger link was too good for menot to have an opportunity to mention one of my favourite short stories. Can't agree Bester always trumps Ballard, by the way, they were different kinds of writer, but I think they would have hit it off, both being outsiders in the Genre SF world.
As for Jaunting, it may be one of the 'least' scientific aspects of the story, but it's not the supernatural, is it? I don't link it to DIckens, I link the multiple attempts by researchers to kill Jaunte to try and analyse how he teleports as a classic example of the scientific method- theory, repeated experimentation and proof: and it works scientifically in the novel as soon, they can teach everyone to do it. 'Superpower' and 'Pulp' are not specific enough terms here to disallow the Jaunte as an SF trope.
I agree, though, that Bester does not age- and I think that's because of the Classical storytelling approach as influenced by the works I cite plus the addition of literary techniques from Modernism like Concrete Poetry and other typographical experiments. Bester also tapped into Beat Generation/50s hep cat dialogue and references which put him ahead of the New Wave. If you haven't read his short stories, seek them out as they are even better...
@@outlawbookselleroriginal I'd say that jaunting sure seems like something out of the Paranormal, at least at first. But Bester takes It one step beyond' by making It something everyone(or almost) can learn, thus giving It a kind of "evolutionary" aspect. In any case, the boundary between the material and 'other' world seems largely imaginary, at least according to Patrick Harpur, whose The Philosopher's Secret Fire I'm currently reading(and strongly recommend). Gully Foyle sure seems to transcend the boundary as the timeless Burning Man...
Have read some of Bester's other work, and a couple of short story collections, but It seems to me that Tiger!Tiger! and The Demolished Man were his peak performances, by far.
@@luiznogueira1579 The point is that Bester does not offer a paranormal explanation for the Novum of Jaunting. If he had, we'd be in Fantasy territory-, as the 'explanation' would be a magical anachronism- look closely at the text at the section where the scientists try and explain the jaunte.
Agreed.. the word escaped me
The first cyberpunk novel, too.
No, it's an influence over Cyberpunk, but it cannot be seriously claimed for the subgenre: it has more of a claim to be a New Wave novel, and even then it's not one, for as with the Cyberpunk claim, it's too early in the development of Genre SF - it's a matter of chronology as well as detail- It lacks all the elements that would comprise Cyberpunk. Later works by Delany and Budrys would have more of a claim, but again, they won't wash: Cyberpunk began to coalese proper at the very end of the 1970s and not before. Watch my video 'Who Put the Punk in Cyberpunk?'.
All good points, but when Gully Foyle gets his whole body retooled on Mars, that's practically a foundational aspect of cyberpunk in my opinion. With interesting echos (Mars) for Man Plus.
@@kid5Media Yes, it's regarded as foundational, but machine-human interfaces are only one aspect of Cyberpunk- his attitude as a character is arguably more important in this respect, but most significant is the fact that Gibson cites Bester's style of writing in the book as influential over him. 'The Demolished Man' depicts corporate power in a manner that foreshadows the dominance of corporations in Cyberpunk, but pick through the history of SF from the 1950s to late 1970s and there are numerous taproot texts- the most neglected of which is Budrys' Michelmas'.
Good talk ol' bean. Educate those smartphone dummies!
I found The Drowned Giant too predictable. It would have been more interesting if they'd found an alien artifact in his stomach that allowed the munchkins to multiply in size or that the giant is some kind of mechanised or organic spaceship...
You've entirely missed the point of the story. Your expectation of Ballard here is that he is a conventional 'sci-fi' writer, which he was not. As I said in a recent video title 'Maybe Your Expectations Are The Problem?'. Why do you read SF? To fulfill the need for familiar tropes, most of which you encountered on screens before you started reading widely in the genre? Ballard is writing here as much about the psyche of the people who visit the giant, in search of wonder and he never seeks to 'explain' the mystery of the giants' origin as that would arguably remove the poetry of the story's images. I'd say your expectation of Ballard as a 'Sci-Fi' writer is what's predictable here- Ballard was about expanding the horizons of the genre into Inner Space, of encouraging people to look at how their minds are altered by the unusual. This is why Ballard is revered as one of the greatest writers to ever emerge from Genre SF.
I did read it this year and its one of the best SF o have ever read, thanks for the video Dad 🥹
Pleasure, dude.