Are Neanderthals Humans Too? S. Joshua Swamidass and Michael Heiser
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- Опубліковано 29 чер 2021
- How similar are Neanderthals to Homo Sapiens? Recent evidence has shown that we share DNA with Neanderthals, so it appears that past generations interbred with Neanderthals. Does that make Neanderthals human? And if they are human, do they also carry the torch of God's imager bearers on Earth?
Are only Homo Sapiens the Genealogical descendants of Adam and Eve? Or did Adam and Eve come after #Neanderthals already went extinct? Should we even label Neanderthals as something distinct from humans, or is it sufficient to just call them another race of humans?
Dr. Swamidass and Michael #Heiser wrestle with these philosophical and theological questions, while trying to look at the issue from both a scientific perspective, as well as a Biblical one.
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Why have a guest if you don’t allow the guest to finish a sentence?
Next time, it would be good to leave people talk freely without constant interruptions
Dr. Swamidass is constantly cutting his guests off in the middle of their statements. It’s very annoying. I want to hear their comments. Have a little more patience. Give them the opportunity to complete their thoughts. (I say guests because he did the same thing with Dr. Craig in a prior interview).
I agree but that is interviewing skills....
it's something to keep in mind while in a conversation i agree, most of the times he seem to be more excited.
Yeah I noticed this too! Impatient is the word I would use too.
True. Dr. Swamidass, get some chocolate! This is the answer to all needs. Eat some while hosting and it's sure that the yumminess will keep you occupied while your guests talk. Y may even be taken into another realm...if the chocolate is of great quality!
@@keithstarkey5584 maybe add some peanut butter! It may help slow things down a bit.
Thanks for getting Dr. Mike onboard & I respect your work but you gotta please stop cutting off your guests. I came here to hear Mike, not a debate. Shame, this could've been a much more of a "talk".
I highly suspect that a lot of the interbreeding was by archaeologists. I've always heard that archaeologists will date any old thing.
Hahahaaaaa!
Interesting thought that maybe totally out of left field, but is there any slight possibility of the Neanderthals or other non-image humans just being the Nephilim? Would love to hear both of your thoughts on this. Or even thoughts on where the Nephilim may fit in terms of fossil remains...It seems like they would leave behind a different skeletal structure than regular humans.
I think they are just small nephilum
Wow, a race of creatures that can interbreed with humans, but are not homo sapiens; a race that is five times stronger which would make them fearsome hunters and warriors... a race that no longer exists as if they all disappeared a long time ago. And though Dr. Heiser is an expert on Genesis 6, the thought never seems to enter his mind that there might be a connection between this discussion here, and his formal academic research there...
I agree. One of those "Tough to prove/disprove" topics.
Loved the conversation. We need more!
I am new to your podcast
& found it while searching
for Dr. Heiser interviews.
Thank you for thoughtful
discussion, very interesting. Please when
possible have Dr. H. back.
Everyone please pray
for his health & family.
Nothing is impossible
With God.
The aboriginals of Australian looked like this 100 years ago, so are they not human? I don’t think so. Still human but very unique.
I don't think the bible is clear on this so we will be unable to answer some of these questions.
I agree. However, for open minded people these topics do make great coffee table conversations! :)
Loved this debate ,I want to see more between you two ‼️ It was educational in both ways, plus entertaining ‼️ I’m with Mike on this one ‼️👍
I think a bout dogs ,bulldogs have round skulls with short nose .
Shepherd has long nose long skull
But they are still dogs .
So who was first Modern people or Neanderthals
If Gen 1 narrates the creation of humans before the creation of Eden and before Adam and Eve and that we speculate then that these humans are Neanderthals then Neanderthals bare the image of God because of Gen 1:27.
The human practice of attempting to understand self, the earth and social world as well as the Uncreated Creator is both primordial and without exception.
If imaging is a status God confered upon Adam and Eve, how would one have distinguished among Adam, Eve and the outliers (prior to the flood) who had the imaging status? Nothing in Scripture (or science as far as I know) suggests that the outliers from the Garden of Eden looked any different than Adam and Eve; i.e., they weren't Neaderthals. There must, then, be something more than just status.
I follow Mike pretty closely, and if I recall correctly, Mike in the past has stated that to image God is to have been created to rule over and administer the earth, along the same vein in that God runs things. Again, though, what would be the distinguishing demarcation from the Adam and the outliers? Finally, weren't the Neaderthals ruling and administering the earth at the time they existed? How is that different, in terms of imaging status, from Adam and Eve?
One issue with Neanderthals they seem to be physically stronger than modern humans which might have impaired the development of civilisation and agriculture
I think the best thing to tackle this is to wait till we have a time machine go back & interview all the relevant characters. Also if someone from the future reads this & there is time machines, Can you come back in time & tell us the answer in this comments list please.
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Mike! You're one of my theology dads. Are you sure you meant that God was talking about Adam and Eve when he said "Let us make 'man' in our own image" and then the narrarator says "so God created man in his own image"? That looks like the text is talking about humans, not Adam and Eve. As the video went on, you guys (Josh and Mike) spoke of the vocational image being available to folks outside the garden just based on common sense and what God is like, seems right to me as well. But also, Gen 1 actually says that. The human creature was intended for the imaging purpose based on Gen 1.
Enjoyed the conversation, Josh. Would love to hear you explain carbon dating and why Christians should see it as a reliable tool. Blessings,
Dan
Carbon 14 is only good up to 50000 years
Not gonna lie....I'm going to reread your book Swami👊✌
Thanks
Thanks for your content. Please engage with the anthropological theory of René Girard vis-a-vis the Genealogical Adam and Eve and "people outside the garden".
"Image of God", on Girard's theory of hominization, may relate to those humans worshipping the sacred, archaic gods, a feature of our species that first distinguished us from animals, but a phenomenon and culture that precedes by 100,000s of years the arrival of Adam, who is newly created "theologically" out of these people to be the bearer of intimate knowledge of and relationship with the one true God.
Now, without the sacred, Adam would not be capable of worshipping the true God (he'd have animal consciousness only), so the worshipping of gods is a gift for Adam to use properly, even though the origins and practices of the archaic sacred are violent. However, Adam is specifically called to no longer partake (a type of Abraham) in the archaic, violent sacred (the Logos of Heraclitus; human sacrifices; knowledge of good and evil according to that Logos). This makes the doctrine of Adam's Fall and the nature of Original Sin more practically comprehensible, and ties in well with the doctrine of recapitulation.
" chickens smarter than a two year old toddler "
This reminded me of a dumb argument I once got into with my brother on law. He had a dog that he thought was so smart and he made dumb comment on how his dog was smarter than my ( at that time ) few month old baby daughter in her little baby carrier. I told him come back in a year and you'll be able to hold an intelligent conversation with the baby while your dumb dog will still be a dumb dog.
A year later the little baby operated a camera and took a good well - aimed picture of him and his stupid dog.
There is a Biblical explanation for this with the help of Dr Heisers teaching of the Divine Council. The chay created on Day 6 are some kind of hominid that has language. The rebellious Divine Council said: "Let us CHANGE the chay into our image and likeness". So Elohim CREATED man in his image. God did not break his own law that each species should reproduce after their own kind. Man is a completely separate creation than the chay hominid. There is no missing link between the two. The rebellious Divine Council went ahead with their plan to change the chay into their image. They are the ones who mixed the DNA of the chay with the Day 6 man. God knew this would happen. That is why Adam was created separately from the chay and the Day 6 man. Yahweh would use Adam to restore the Day 6 man back to what he originally created before being tampered with by the rebellious Divine Council.