I'm new to all this tool stuff and have recently fallen down the hole of UA-cam tool videos. I've heard it mentioned in several different videos now how Taiwanese manufacturers dominate the market for ratcheting wrenches whether it be through manufacturing them or providing the box end mechanism to other companies. Any idea how this came to be? The Milwaukee ones I use at work have awful back drag. Is this generally the case for ratcheting wrenches? Is there a particular brand the you know of that shines through with minimal back drag?
Welcome to the rabbit hole that could lead you down many paths to come. Back in 2009, I was intrigued with the seemingly dominant stronghold the Taiwanese tool industry had with the manufacturing of the 'modern day' forged ratcheting wrenches. I scoured the internet to try to figure out what the whole deal was and learned quite a bit in the process. It all began in 1995, at the time when Bobby Hu was working for Lea Way Hand Tool Co. in Taiwan. He's the so-called 'father' of forged ratcheting wrenches, with numerous patents under his belt. The rest is history. I'm not familiar with the Milwaukee ones so can't comment on the back drag. Judging by the looks of the open-end (V-notch and anti-slip design), and 144-tooth (really a 72-tooth with a stacked, offset pawl mechanism), it's sourced from a Taiwanese company called Infar. That type of mechanism tends to have heavier back drag. Finding ratcheting wrenches with lighter back drag across the board may or may not be easy. Ideally, you want to be able to feel the back drag before making a purchase. I've encountered occasions when you go through a multi-piece set and find that the back drag is not consistent. That is, you find the back drag on a 10mm heavier than the 14mm wrench. You pick up another set and find things to be as expected ie. the back drag becomes a tad heavier as the size gets bigger. If you don't have access to the tools at a store it's impossible gauge any of that. In general, I think I've found that ratcheting wrenches being manufactured by a company called Hi-Five (Bobby Hu's own company) offers a good degree of product consistency. You can find their products sold under many brands including, but not limited to: Wurth, MAC, Stanley, Proto, Blackhawk, Husky, SK (pre-Ideal), Husky, Bost, Facom, Expert, Irimo, Bahco, KS Tools, Great Neck, Performance Tool, Fuller, SEK, Mastercraft, Signet. Keep in mind that these companies can be sourcing from more than one manufacturer to complete their product lineup of ratcheting wrenches.
@@chriscas-ToolAficionado Is there a reliable way to determine which products feature those ratchet mechanisms? Or, do you have a brand and product line you'd suggest? Prior to reading this comment, I was considering Stahlwille's 17 line. Ideally, I'd still like to have SAE capability, despite the increasing commonality of metric fasteners. (That's one thing I'm lamenting about Ko-ken's offerings - absolutely beautiful and generally well designed, but a very limited selection of SAE sockets, and lots of size-skipping.)
Speaking of, I just received my very first Ko-ken product yesterday - their 1/4" drive SAE Nut Grip shallow Nut Grip sockets, and I absolutely love the satin finishing, feel of the embossed lettering, semi-sharp edges, etc. Just fantastic. Very eager to expand my collection of their wares. Also placed an order with Palmac, but haven't received an ETA on those items.
Hi christ, do you have any suggestion about regular koken or Tone socket ? Wich better? Not for a slice of beautiful but about strength and rust protection.
Yeah, we’ll never know what goes on behind closed doors with those deals. A lot of the Taiwanese manufacturers have the tooling to get the features they want. There’s a lot of demand for newer products with newer features, and like you said, the facilities don’t have the capabilities of doing it all. Getting the product out at a reasonable price has a lot of play into it as well. The important thing to look at is the consistency and quality control. You’ll see a lot of Amazon house brands that have the same exact tool, but once you look closer, the quality isn’t there..
There's no question that Taiwan's tool industry has been a major powerhouse in this global market. Like you said, they can produce a quality product at a price point that buyers/importers are willing to pay for. They are the hub for American, European, and Japanese tool manufacturers to go shopping for the latest and greatest. With the larger, well-established tool brands of the world, they are dealing with reputable Taiwanese manufacturers that meet their standards, but with house brands and Amazon brands, they may be shopping for lower-tier manufacturers. Some of those manufacturers are producing very similar tools, but as you say, the quality control and consistency isn't there. Their tool industry is huge. There are dozens of manufacturers that do OEM/ODM, some have become established enough to market under their own brand. Then there's a bunch of companies that seem to specialize in networking with the Taiwanese tool manufacturers to create a sort of one-stop-shopping experience for foreign buyers. Makes my head stir just thinking about it 😅
@@chriscas-ToolAficionado haha! Yeah, there’s also companies that have a little bit to do with tools, but they want an accessory merchandise catalog with their logo on it for gifts and company gifts.. you’ll find many familiar brands in there! Lol
Hey Chris. Got a question for you. Is it any cheaper to buy tools in Japan? Planning on visiting Japan in June or July and wondering if I should hold off on buying tools for the time being. Mostly interested in Nepros stuff but really wanna try some Koken stuff too. I’ve just been ordering directly from the Nepros website and having it shipped to Colorado
Hi, Cobese. Yes and no. Nepros is certainly cheaper to purchase the way you've already been doing. There's no savings shopping for new Nepros tools in Japan. With Ko-ken, you may find some savings by purchasing in Japan, particularly through online merchants. Have you checked out Palmac.net for Ko-ken pricing? They are run by Ko-ken USA.
Dude I just discovered your channel yesterday and I’m already hooked, watched 10 videos and planned on watching the rest tomorrow, can you maybe do a guide on where you buy these stuff I know you mention it some times but it is hard to point down also maybe a google spreadsheet with all the Japanese tool brands and there core tool so we know where to look for what tool that would help out so much for newcomers like me. I have a hard time spitting through Amazon jp. Keep up the good work love your videos can’t wait for new ones.
Hey Buddy, Question: Have you ever seen sockets that are stamped (H.Japan) -or- (CV Japan)? I have a few like this and I was just wondering what it means. If you know...
Hey Tony. Never seen a H.Japan. or CV Japan markings. Some companies can have more than one factory, so "H" could be an indicator for the manufacturer to know which factory produced it. It could also be an indicator of manufacturer itself. It could be a Japanese company called H.I.T.. CV almost seems like a shortened version of chrome vanadium (CRV). Dunno about that one 🤷♂️
Right! They sure know how to promote and engage with professionals and end users by sponsoring various auto/motosports. ...coupled with "image gals" too 👌
Thanks for the insight. Since Japan makes diggers I was hoping they would make tools to work on them, specifically hoses that are squashed down in the bowels of the machine, virtually inaccessible. An open-ended ratcheting wrench that needs very little swing. Ah, well.
Yeah, I don't think I've come across any from Japan. Ratcheting open end wrenches from Tone are from Taiwan. Ratcheting crowsfoot sockets do exist, and are from Taiwan as well, like the Gearwrench ones.
Olsa tools has some nice aluminum rails wth plastic clips with detent balls like a ratchet has. The husky ones at home depote are cheaper and the clips interchange with other brands. I've swapped all mine. You can grab the rail and head to the work without sockets flying off! Try one, be prepared to give away those sheetmetal ones to others starting out. Its ok to give away a tool now and then.
AFAIK, the company only needs to be based in the country to use that country's name in an imported product, there's no need to process or finish the product. With the "made in" however there's a guarantee that at least the finishing was made in said country. Usually the best places to determine country of origin for me are US online stores because there seems to be some legal requirement for it to be displayed, unlike in Europe or other places.
@@chriscas-ToolAficionado Probably unlikely. Japanese made products of all types have very little exposure here these days. Our market is totally dominated by Chinese made stuff. Quite sad.
I'm new to all this tool stuff and have recently fallen down the hole of UA-cam tool videos. I've heard it mentioned in several different videos now how Taiwanese manufacturers dominate the market for ratcheting wrenches whether it be through manufacturing them or providing the box end mechanism to other companies. Any idea how this came to be? The Milwaukee ones I use at work have awful back drag. Is this generally the case for ratcheting wrenches? Is there a particular brand the you know of that shines through with minimal back drag?
Welcome to the rabbit hole that could lead you down many paths to come. Back in 2009, I was intrigued with the seemingly dominant stronghold the Taiwanese tool industry had with the manufacturing of the 'modern day' forged ratcheting wrenches. I scoured the internet to try to figure out what the whole deal was and learned quite a bit in the process.
It all began in 1995, at the time when Bobby Hu was working for Lea Way Hand Tool Co. in Taiwan. He's the so-called 'father' of forged ratcheting wrenches, with numerous patents under his belt. The rest is history.
I'm not familiar with the Milwaukee ones so can't comment on the back drag. Judging by the looks of the open-end (V-notch and anti-slip design), and 144-tooth (really a 72-tooth with a stacked, offset pawl mechanism), it's sourced from a Taiwanese company called Infar. That type of mechanism tends to have heavier back drag.
Finding ratcheting wrenches with lighter back drag across the board may or may not be easy. Ideally, you want to be able to feel the back drag before making a purchase. I've encountered occasions when you go through a multi-piece set and find that the back drag is not consistent. That is, you find the back drag on a 10mm heavier than the 14mm wrench. You pick up another set and find things to be as expected ie. the back drag becomes a tad heavier as the size gets bigger. If you don't have access to the tools at a store it's impossible gauge any of that.
In general, I think I've found that ratcheting wrenches being manufactured by a company called Hi-Five (Bobby Hu's own company) offers a good degree of product consistency. You can find their products sold under many brands including, but not limited to: Wurth, MAC, Stanley, Proto, Blackhawk, Husky, SK (pre-Ideal), Husky, Bost, Facom, Expert, Irimo, Bahco, KS Tools, Great Neck, Performance Tool, Fuller, SEK, Mastercraft, Signet.
Keep in mind that these companies can be sourcing from more than one manufacturer to complete their product lineup of ratcheting wrenches.
@@chriscas-ToolAficionado WOW, now THAT is a comprehensive answer. THANK YOU! That alone could be the subject of one your videos. Subbed!
@@chriscas-ToolAficionado Is there a reliable way to determine which products feature those ratchet mechanisms? Or, do you have a brand and product line you'd suggest? Prior to reading this comment, I was considering Stahlwille's 17 line. Ideally, I'd still like to have SAE capability, despite the increasing commonality of metric fasteners. (That's one thing I'm lamenting about Ko-ken's offerings - absolutely beautiful and generally well designed, but a very limited selection of SAE sockets, and lots of size-skipping.)
Speaking of, I just received my very first Ko-ken product yesterday - their 1/4" drive SAE Nut Grip shallow Nut Grip sockets, and I absolutely love the satin finishing, feel of the embossed lettering, semi-sharp edges, etc. Just fantastic. Very eager to expand my collection of their wares. Also placed an order with Palmac, but haven't received an ETA on those items.
Love these tool showcase videos!!
Thanks! I'm glad you enjoy them!
Yes. I have a few powerbuilt, alltrade, ratchets with a similar head style. Very compact. Very useful in the right situations.
My friend @Pat Paulsen just sent me a couple of Tone ratchets. I'm excited to use them
Hi Jude 👋
That's awesome. They have a pretty compact head with a nice satin finish that you gotta touch to appreciate.
Hi christ, do you have any suggestion about regular koken or Tone socket ? Wich better? Not for a slice of beautiful but about strength and rust protection.
Yeah, we’ll never know what goes on behind closed doors with those deals. A lot of the Taiwanese manufacturers have the tooling to get the features they want. There’s a lot of demand for newer products with newer features, and like you said, the facilities don’t have the capabilities of doing it all. Getting the product out at a reasonable price has a lot of play into it as well. The important thing to look at is the consistency and quality control. You’ll see a lot of Amazon house brands that have the same exact tool, but once you look closer, the quality isn’t there..
There's no question that Taiwan's tool industry has been a major powerhouse in this global market. Like you said, they can produce a quality product at a price point that buyers/importers are willing to pay for. They are the hub for American, European, and Japanese tool manufacturers to go shopping for the latest and greatest.
With the larger, well-established tool brands of the world, they are dealing with reputable Taiwanese manufacturers that meet their standards, but with house brands and Amazon brands, they may be shopping for lower-tier manufacturers. Some of those manufacturers are producing very similar tools, but as you say, the quality control and consistency isn't there.
Their tool industry is huge. There are dozens of manufacturers that do OEM/ODM, some have become established enough to market under their own brand. Then there's a bunch of companies that seem to specialize in networking with the Taiwanese tool manufacturers to create a sort of one-stop-shopping experience for foreign buyers. Makes my head stir just thinking about it 😅
@@chriscas-ToolAficionado haha! Yeah, there’s also companies that have a little bit to do with tools, but they want an accessory merchandise catalog with their logo on it for gifts and company gifts.. you’ll find many familiar brands in there! Lol
Hey Chris. Got a question for you. Is it any cheaper to buy tools in Japan?
Planning on visiting Japan in June or July and wondering if I should hold off on buying tools for the time being. Mostly interested in Nepros stuff but really wanna try some Koken stuff too. I’ve just been ordering directly from the Nepros website and having it shipped to Colorado
Hi, Cobese. Yes and no. Nepros is certainly cheaper to purchase the way you've already been doing. There's no savings shopping for new Nepros tools in Japan. With Ko-ken, you may find some savings by purchasing in Japan, particularly through online merchants. Have you checked out Palmac.net for Ko-ken pricing? They are run by Ko-ken USA.
@@chriscas-ToolAficionado Awesome. I knew you were the guy to ask lol I’ll have to check out Palmac. Thanks man
Dude I just discovered your channel yesterday and I’m already hooked, watched 10 videos and planned on watching the rest tomorrow, can you maybe do a guide on where you buy these stuff I know you mention it some times but it is hard to point down also maybe a google spreadsheet with all the Japanese tool brands and there core tool so we know where to look for what tool that would help out so much for newcomers like me. I have a hard time spitting through Amazon jp. Keep up the good work love your videos can’t wait for new ones.
lol, I got you hooked! Thanks for the comment and suggestion!
Dang! How'd I miss this?!
Never too late! 👍
@@chriscas-ToolAficionado did you build the stubby 1/2", or is it an orderable p/n?
@@MrSubaru1387 nope, not a custom. P/N is RH4CHS
@@chriscas-ToolAficionado yeah, found it on Amazon Japan last night. Thanks. 👍🏻
@@MrSubaru1387 only thing I modified was the spring for the pawl. I cut off two coils to make the backdrag closer to my liking.
I hit like before the ads were even finished, lol.
Hey Buddy, Question: Have you ever seen sockets that are stamped (H.Japan) -or- (CV Japan)? I have a few like this and I was just wondering what it means. If you know...
Hey Tony. Never seen a H.Japan. or CV Japan markings. Some companies can have more than one factory, so "H" could be an indicator for the manufacturer to know which factory produced it. It could also be an indicator of manufacturer itself. It could be a Japanese company called H.I.T..
CV almost seems like a shortened version of chrome vanadium (CRV). Dunno about that one 🤷♂️
Thanks for the reply Chris!👍
They are also sponsoring several drivers in D1 and Formula Drift Japan. It’s nice to shop the tent set up at these events, lol.
Right! They sure know how to promote and engage with professionals and end users by sponsoring various auto/motosports. ...coupled with "image gals" too 👌
Thanks for the insight. Since Japan makes diggers I was hoping they would make tools to work on them, specifically hoses that are squashed down in the bowels of the machine, virtually inaccessible. An open-ended ratcheting wrench that needs very little swing. Ah, well.
Yeah, I don't think I've come across any from Japan. Ratcheting open end wrenches from Tone are from Taiwan. Ratcheting crowsfoot sockets do exist, and are from Taiwan as well, like the Gearwrench ones.
Olsa tools has some nice aluminum rails wth plastic clips with detent balls like a ratchet has. The husky ones at home depote are cheaper and the clips interchange with other brands. I've swapped all mine. You can grab the rail and head to the work without sockets flying off! Try one, be prepared to give away those sheetmetal ones to others starting out. Its ok to give away a tool now and then.
AFAIK, the company only needs to be based in the country to use that country's name in an imported product, there's no need to process or finish the product. With the "made in" however there's a guarantee that at least the finishing was made in said country.
Usually the best places to determine country of origin for me are US online stores because there seems to be some legal requirement for it to be displayed, unlike in Europe or other places.
Hi Pedro. Thanks for the comment. I may look into this to see what the laws are in Japan.
Here in the south, due to humidity, my tools rust in the tool box if I don't oil them regularly.
Do you have a preferred choice for a type of oil? Do desiccant help to combat surface rust?
@@chriscas-ToolAficionado 5W-30! 😂 🤣
@@MrSubaru1387 used oil would do too 😆
I dont own any Tone tools. Almost impossible to get in Australia. They look great though.
Might be a matter of time before a drifting/racing event gets sponsored by Tone and the awareness/interest starts there?
@@chriscas-ToolAficionado Probably unlikely. Japanese made products of all types have very little exposure here these days. Our market is totally dominated by Chinese made stuff. Quite sad.
🇯🇵
I won’t buy from them due to this deceitful practice. It’s getting to be impossible to exert any control over where we buy from.
Nice videos but you 'umm' and 'uhh' a lot
Ahm um ah a ahum …. Worthless video
@@1Barsamian but it must've been worth a thumbs-down at least 🤷🏼