Ultimate Low-ESR Capacitor Shopping List
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- Опубліковано 3 жов 2024
- Please consider supporting me via Patreon at: / thedroneracingengineer
Capacitors make your quadcopter fly better and your FPV video cleaner. That's a fact. I don't put capacitors one very single one of my builds, but I really ought to. And so should you. But what capacitor should you get? A low-ESR capacitor! Okay... how do you know which are low-ESR? Until now, it was difficult. But here's a spreadsheet with a list of the major low-ESR capacitors on the market, as well as their size and weight. So you can pick one that suits you exactly!
Check out this spreadsheet here: goo.gl/71GkbC
Hah, and here i thought that no one saw and appreciated my spreadsheet :) Glad to see it in a video. Thanks Joshua
Thats your spreadsheet? +50 bonus points to you! Video bookmarked and all... Thank you for compiling this information so others do not have to & for helping those of us who are still introductory technicians. (
Gleb Godonoga thanks for your work, is helping me a lot :)👍👌
thanks ! and do you know why 35v rated capacitor have an overall better ESR @100kHz than the 25V ones ?
MaimexRC edit: somebody else was smarter than me ;)
Capacitance is directly proportional to ESR given ESR=DF/(2* π*f*C). So the bigger the capacitance - the lower ESR can go. I can't give you a scientific explanation as to how exactly voltage correlates with ESR, but it indirectly influences the DF (Dissipation Factor).
thank you Joshua for taking your time out to make videos.please don't stop
Your information is always helpful in building my Quads...You passion for this Hobby always inspires me to keep building and learning thanks for sharing
The noise on my video was insane before I did this. Probably worse than anything I've seen on youtube. Installed a 330 capacitor on each ESC and it made my video pristine. Thanks for the useful info, Joshua and Gleb!
I swear we are always on the same thinking patterns lol, several+ times I'm researching something and then you I go on youtube and see you've just uploaded a video on the exact topic/product.
Lol, yeah, me too! Just yesterday I was searching for these caps!
Been reading about this subject and seeing some builds with capacitors. I'm going to try it on my next build.
Thanks Josh !
i have just put one 470uf capacitor on each of the 6 brushed esc,s i am using for an underwater rov i'm building , as soon as i did my video feed has cleaned up very nicely , i will now go and retro fit them to my quads . cheers for the tip
Great video. I definitely need to get some of those for my Harrier s1100 being noisy a lot. Powering VTX from external battery shows very clean video. Thank you
very nice and informational.
Been needing one of these for a video monitor charger repair.
The RaceFlight gents discussed capacitors in a video, and for recommended installation say to solder the capacitors as close to the actual unit as possible, i.e.: NOT at the end of the stock wires. For convenience, you can use ~16 gauge wire with plenty of solder close to the capacitor and the shortest wires possible. This will help give you options for placing the capacitors if you have a tight space or would like to place the capacitors inside the frame of a quad for protection.
Any 'audio grade' capacitor will do: Panasonic FM or FC, Nichicon-Muse or -Fine Gold, etc.
For the people who don't want to go to Mouser or Digikey, there are a lot of shops for audio parts online.
The single most important factor on the capacitor for this application is it's ripple current rating. The higher the better. I use Panasonic 35SEPF120M caps on my ESC, only 120uF each, but they have a 4.4A ripple current rating.
A 470uf 25volt Panasonic low esr across the battery terminals and a buck converter to supply 5 volts gets rid of all noise. I power my fpv gear on 5 volt.
Try it. It works perfect.
Could we get a photo of how you have the capacitors installed on your escs? for the uninitiated?
I second this. I want to immediately get a handful but also want to see where you put it! Thank you for your informative videos. I watch them like the South watches FOX News..
I would like this too!
solder the cap right to the positive and negative pads on the esc.
or a video even!
I think most of us understand how to install it. We want a pic or video so we know the best way too and how to protect them in a crash. I mean I will leave them off if it means I could fry my whole quad in a crash.
Yup that is why in the older cars with points in the distributor would cut the spark plus noise out of the AM radio LOL darn I'm old. Yes I use DigiKey for all my electronics they have a monthly news letter they email out to people to keep up on all the latest tech. Thanks for the video.
Any more than 470 MFD on the battery is not a good idea people, just remember what goes in must come out and with capacitors bigger isn't better.Most of us understand more voltage gives you better headroom before the capacitor goes boom but few understand the storage dynamic of a cap.
I had a bad week because of intolerable video noise on my feed. I even drop my D gain but did not work. Then last week I add 470uF on each esc but its rated as 50v so its huge! Now it literally noise free even at sudden burst of throttle and movement. :D
My understanding is video noise can be from voltage and current spike. capacitor smooths out the voltage not current. LC filter has a capacitor and inductor, which take cares of voltage and current.
How do you put them on an all in one board for each esc.?
Seems like there would be vendors in the FPV community that would have these in nice tidy package purchases.
Rubycon: ZLH, ZLG, ZLQ series
Panasonic: FM, FR series
Nippon Chemi-con: KZM series
Nichicon: UHV series
ZLH, FM, FR & KZM are easy to get from online shop.
25V 220uf or 35V 220uf is enough on each ESC
Great video Josh ^_^
great info. additional install tutorial would have been the cream. thanks
spreads sheets are nothing to joke about!
I did what you did with one exception: I looked at the diameter and then checked the biggest available Panasonic Low ESR for that diameter. Here are my results: 10mm: 3300uF 6.3V, 1800uF 16V, 1200uF 25V, 820uF 35V; 8mm: 1500uF 6.3V, 1000uF 16V, 680uF 25V, 470uF 35V; 6mm: 470uF 6.3V, 220uF 16V, 150uF 25V, 38uF 35V
All solid capacitors have very low ESR
Hey Joshua, First of all - huge fan of your content! I learned to fly watching your series on freerider + you probably saved me a ton of $$$ on gear. Funny you would release this video today I actually came across a new technique for protecting the quads against transients and cleaning up Gyro noise and video feed.
Instead of using capacitors, I have it on good sources that TVS Zenner Diodes of the right spec can provide much better protection for circuits. I would like to get your take on it.
I just posted a video on my channel about it too covering the techinque.
Cheers
+Loose Transistor FPV I'm interested. The results will speak for themselves.
I already know of some folks using it with good results. I will do my own investigation by trying it on my next two builds. I will let you know how it goes.
i like the theory, however the response time of the component is the important bit i would think? can it shut the door fast enough?
The response time on zener diodes is classified in picoseconds.. so its near instantaneus anyway.
If you pay attention to newer ESC's including the latest 35A cicada 4in1 and the single, they are already coming with TVS installed from factory using zener diodes.
This is a good fix for transients and cleaner setup on older ESC's.
very interesting indeed :)
Thank you again! This is good info for sure. Would you be willing to make a video detailing how you install different caps on different esc, and possibly create a spread sheet illustrating efficiency?
Objectivityiskey It's pretty easy once you understood it. ;)
You have to put these right on the ESC where the power wires to your battery or pdb are soldered
I had only 4 Capacitors from old esc's that are not low esr and the quality of the video is 100% I cant even make it glitch at full throttle. So if your hanging out for this mod but you think you dont have the right cap's Just Try it anyways ;)
FYI capacitor ratings are in Farads, the so called U is actually a Greek letter "mu" and stands for 'micro' so please saw "Micro farads"...
Do you mean attaching one cap at each terminals of the esc's where they attach to the pdb?
And do you recommend 25V or 35V for an 4S system? (panasonic 35V caps are rated for 25 V to 50 V)
Awesome list, I've just ordered some capacitors!
Willem V You should attach these capacitors as close to the noise source as possible, so in this specific case directly on the ESC where the power wires are soldered. Generally a 25V capacitor should do the job, it might live a bit shorter than a 50 V but I think this doesn't matters because when the capacitor dies the drone already died three times :)
Thanks! That clears up a lot!
goo.gl/eEw2nu
specialfae what exactly do you mean?
Nice video! And by the way, I think they should fix the abbreviation for micro to be u instead of µ. The µ is the only SI prefix that uses non-latin characters and unless you're just trying to be annoying, using u instead will not cause any misunderstandings and that's *all* that matters. I still think that you should use metric for everything.
I'd like to learn more about why capacitors help reducing noise, and the front part of your video was helpful. I have 2 questions: 1. Just to be sure I get it correctly - it is better to solder one capacitor to each ESC, than the battery lead, right?
2. I don't understand the part on video noise and D gains. When you say raise D gains past ~25 you get "excessive noise", are you referring to excessive _video noise_?
If putting the capacitor at the battery terminals is not as good as putting them on the individual ESC's power wires, does this mean a 4-in-1 esc is at a disadvantage because you can only put the capacitor on the batter terminals?
Yes that has been my experience.
Joshua Bardwell thanks for the response, this makes me second guess whether I’ll be using a 4-in-1 esc on my new 6S build. Thanks!
I love spreadsheets. Really I do... Sad actually. .. Lol. Great video Joshua, as usual :)
Hey Joshua, great info. It need to be updated though. I'm new to drones, but notice my Diatone 349 came with polymer electrolytic capacitors. They offer an even lower esr impedence, 10m ohms
Hello Joshua, do you have a video on how to put caps on each ESC ? how to tell positive and negative to solder correctly? please.
The negative lead is on the side with a white stripe down the side of the ESC.
If low ESR is the goal, is there a reason not to use Aluminum-Polymer caps? Such as this one: www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/panasonic-electronic-components/25SEPF330M/P16323-ND/4204160
The first reason I'm sure will be "they're $2 each"
In addition to an electrolytic, a ceramic or tantalum capacitor would be better for high frequency noise.
Can it be used for tv repair too?
much appreciated info...
Great video. Why not put capacitors on the power leads to vtx and camera, as close to the problem as possible?
Joshua please consider doing a video on FPV video trouble shooting. I've been fighting crappy FPV video for quite some time. Most recently I put a 1000uf 25v cap on my quad and it improved the video some but I still have poor range and crap video. Discuss the obvious things like SMA vs RP-SMA, RHCP vs LHCP, channel on tx and rx being the same, but also less obvious things like RF interference, I'm sure you can think of others.
Ground video and camera to the same point. Like, the exact same pad if possible, or as close together as you can.
Currently my cam ground runs through the vtx..
Also what about twisting wires, and wire shielding etc.. there are more folks than are willing to admit who are struggling with shitty fpv video.
+Barry Anderberg try moving it to the same place ad the vTX if you are having noise.
Joshua, thank you for all the vids. They have been a tremendous help.
I'm finishing up a new quad and saw this video. I ordered caps like the spreadsheet listed and they came in today.
I have about 2" of wire between my FC and each ESC. Does it matter if I put the caps on the tabs of the FC or the ESC. At this point it's easier to add to FC plus they would be more protected.
I got 750uF on my ESC's upgrade is needed when leads are extended for big machines, OEM ESC came with 220uF
Hey Josh,
Thanks for the great info once again!
A quick question: do you plan on ever getting into 3D printing? I've been thinking about getting a printer lately for quad related stuff. I think it'd be fun and very useful!
Greetings from Australia!
thank you sir another crowd pleaser
24 minutes ago, listening to old dvrs and had to replace leads I can say this. With an analog multimeter atleast you want to see it drop basically to where it started whereas the one I have problems with now the current almost stays continuous I guess, not all the way to zero but not close to where it started.
Probing the capacitors.
I find and harvest mine
When I got called out for thinking it's micro Farad.. busted
bought a bag of 50 Chemicon caps many years ago for making LC filters.16V 470uF. work great for cleaning up video and I find little need for the ferrite. but maybe Panasonic is better? Yeah I know nowadays everything 4S I should go 25V. ESR - not sure what that means, above my pay grade
Cool :) and also how is your taranis doing ? was the board really fried ? did you swap it for new one ?
Good question! I'd like to know, too.
Someone once told me that the heat range determined the ESR? IDK if this is true! They said heat range of 105 was the low ESR???
false. these are two independent characteristics.
Digikey has a bit cheaper shipping compared to Mouser's at $5, but they charge me tax, so depending on the order size, it's not always cheaper for me.
Noob Alert. Remember that electrolytic caps are polarised. Be sure to solder the +ve to ESC +ve and -ve to -ve
If you do this backwards, you will get a nice surprise when you power up.
BANG! LOL
Totally off subject, but I'm a Noob and don't know who else to ask. I just received new motors and all 4 are CCW. I know how to change motor direction in BL heli but will the prop nuts come off if they are not threaded the correct direction? Thanks for helping keep us Noobs in the air. LOL
use nyloc nuts. They're the ones with nylon embedded into the thread. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyloc_nut
Super useful subscribed!
Josh - ordered the 330uF caps after watching this. But now I seem to recall in one of your other videos (I think one talking about loop / gyro frequencies or your oneshot(all versions+dshot explain, 2 part-er) & I thought you mentioned that capacitors might "dull" the signal some (dull isn't the word you used but I don't recall how you described it).
Any comment on whether these caps may have any negative effects? If so, is there a breaking point? (let's say maybe oneshot125 may not flinch but oneshot 42/multishot might produce a noticeable difference)? Or if I'm mis-remembering, maybe it doesn't matter at all. Great videos as always! Also bought he whitenoise unify board and BFF3 from your reviews. Going into a 6" Chameleon (which I just found out you're building one after I alreadt bought the frame! Hope it's worthy). Anyways, rant complete. HAve a good one pal.
What do you mean a capacitor on the battery leads doesn't make a big difference but a capacitor on the ESC's does? Do you need 4 capacitors? Where do you put them?
4 smaller capacitors, directly soldered to the ESC power pads, vs 1 big capacitor, soldered to the main battery pads on the PDB.
Hey Josh, GREAT channel! thanks for the info. I have mentioned your channel on one of my videos before because your so much more informative then anyone else. Hey man, I have a capacitor question. I recently bought a HUB OSD from Maytek. And I keep losing the OSD information. As soon as I punch it its gone. So I put a 470uf capacitor on my battery leads and it didnt work. It did fix the video. Before it would get grainier and grainier with every flight and after adding the capacitor it stayed fairly good. But I kept losing the OSD information through my FS goggles. SO I actually went smaller. Ive got a 120uf on the battery leads and a 120uf on an open ESC port. I have a martian II so im using the ESC pads on the unfiltered and running a ground/pos up to one set of ESC pads. Thats where Ive placed the other. I havent gotten a chance to try this. BUT, if it doesnt work I dont have anymore capacitors on hand. What would you suggest? Im thinking of ordering an RX/TX/GND USB adapter to try and get a firmware update or something
Bryson Michael RC It's better soldering the caps as near as possible to the escs, so in our case directly on the ESC, where the power wires are soldered
Joshua, couldn't these be mounted on the esc power/ground leads where they are soldered on the PDB? I don't see how that would make a difference in the benefit of the capacitor and it would put the cap more internal to the quad and out of reach from possible damage. Thoughts?
Nick the source of noise is at the esc if you're letting it get back and putting it on the board the noise makes its way back to the system where its absorbed. It's like stopping someone a murderer from living in your community vs letting him live in your community and keeping a watchful eye on him. This is a very simplified example but easy way to kind of understand it.
With the whole naked go pro thing going on, can this be updated to like 150uF 15V caps and 220uf 25V caps?
Thanks for the info, Joshua. For the noobs out there ... Can I add ... WATCH OUT FOR THE POLARITIES ON THE ELECTROLYTIC CAPS!! .. They "BLOW"(like a firecracker) when they are on reverse polarity. Thanks.
Ive heard that diodes are a better option! What do you think Joshua ?
But where do you put the 330uf capacitor ? Do you mean any on single arm ESC ? Because people as me that have single 4in1 ESC is necessary just 1000 uf capacitor on the battery right ?
Why not just getting a higher esc instead of installing capacitors? Say upgrade from 20a to 30a?
Hey buddy! Don't know if you still watch comments on this video but does it matter which wire on cap is positive or negative? One wire longer than the other but not sure which is which. Thanks!!
Monty Peak Long wire is positive, short wire is negative.
thanks josh you da man!!
Hi Joshua, as always thanks for your content I always learn something when you upload a video. I have one question, in theory we have been said that if your fpv system is lipo powered and has no lc-filter, the spikes generated by damped light could burn the fpv system... but what happens when you have one capacitor in each esc? makes that the powerline a safe place for the fpv system? is that going to protect it against that spikes?
Cheers.
Adding capacitors to the ESCs will help protect the video system from noise by preventing the noise at the source. That's why that's the best way to do it: because it protects the entire system not just the video gear.
Great!!, that removes the need of an lc-filter, I was looking to simplify my builds using no becs at all, everything running on lipo power, and that solves the main problem, the damn lc-filter. Thanks for your response! I will definetly try it!
Hi Josh, i have a question , Should i install capacitor into my 3S battery ?
What about ceramic capacitors
Is this a reason to never use a 4-in-1? Or are there some 4-in-1's that are relatively noise free with the 1, larger capacitor?
Does ESR only apply to electrolytic caps?
i know its old video but i just added to my build ive been trying to get some esc's that will hopefully last so i went with spedix es30hv and i installed on each esc 470mf 35v cap and wired it to the power leads on jb f4 version 1.2 i didnt test it with or without yet but i figure it wouldnt hurt to have a capacitor to each esc. hopefully no blackouts or esc mosfet blowing out now since ive got f40 pro ll 2600 instead of zmx finx40 2607 2610kv and spedix 4.1 esc.
So the impedance (Omhs@100kHz) value, should we be going for a value, or is this just subsequent data? Cheers Joshua & Gleb for the data & video.
This is data from manufacturer testing. Ideally, you would want a low impedance rating for the average frequency in the system.
Rubycon ZLH, ZLG, ZLQ series are low esr and 220uf+... It's an error, I use ZLH 25v 330uf and they are great and tiny.
Rubycon ZLH are the best not sure why they arent here
I just bought some 1000uf 25v low-esr capacitor (pack of 10). I originally planned to put them on my battery lead, but after watching this video, I was wondering if I can put those 1000uf capacitors on each of my Littlebee escs?
Darz Fpv 1k main vbat may be enough for yours. You don't necessarily need one at each ESC. yours could be totally fine with just one.
alright thx fyi I run 3s so Idk if that changes anything
For the Yageo caps look for SY and SZ parts
Realacc ships the hubeco osd pdb with a 25v 330uf Low ESR rubycon capacitor.
Uh oh, Joshua said "U F" instead of "micro", here comes the dislike train lol. Just kidding, great video. I'll be linking this to some of mine.
Project Blue Falcon isn't it technically pronounced mew
dude, I miss you. your channel=still one of the best.
So April 2017. Tell us about transient voltage suppression Zenner diodes!
Wait have I been doing this all wrong. Is to big a capacitor not good. Joshua what are you doing to me?
why is it cool now to use a capacitor on each esc and why is it uncool to use a lc filter anymore. Before your video I bought a bunch of lc filters because everyone told they are magical for noise reduction in a video feed...
Having an lc filter is fighting against the consequences, having these installed on your ESC is more of a fighting against the cause. You can use lc filters as well but if use the capacitors at the escs it will help having less noise in the whole power system of the quad, maybe resulting in less gyro noise?(not sure about this one)
Thanks :)
Gavroche You're welcome glad to have helped ;)
LC filter protects just the video components after the noise is induced. Capacitor on the ESC protects the entire system by preventing the noise from being induced in the first place.
Joshua Bardwell How would one put 4 capitors on a 4n1 ESC?
Hey Joshua I talk to you yesterday about the arming problem with the quadcopter the fc still connects to clean flight and I can spin up all the motors in clean flight i changed nothing and you told me it's probably the flight controller... ps fc only lights up when plugged into USB and I did check it is receiving 5v do you have any methods to rule out that that is the problem I just would hate to throw money at something if I am not 100% sure. Thanks love this hobby because I love the culture, everyone in this loves it so much that they want to get new people into it and teach them to love it like they do... this seems to be true for pros and intermediate pilots alike
If the FC only lights up from USB, that is further suggestion that the FC is damaged.
Alex Dalton Edit: read for your post again, dump answer I wrote ;)
It is possible to hack your damaged fc by splicing 5v power into the micro usb port however i would not recommend it since your fc is probably damaged in other ways too
The lower the impedance, the better?
MikeG4936
1 year ago
Is a higher or lower impedance preferred?
Joshua Bardwell 1 year ago
+MikeG4936 lower.
What about the use of TVS Zenner Diodes in place of the Capactors?
Joshua, how can i wire some low ESR capacitor onto a Quadcopter. This might sound like a dumb question, but how do they go soldered.
The - leg goes to ground, the + leg goes to vBat positive, such as the XT60 positive wire or the ESC+ pad.
Hi JB And the community. Maybe I missed it in the video but should I use 35v cap or 50v cap for a 6s build?
Many thanks!
Most people use 35v.
Joshua Bardwell thank you JB!
Panasonic or rubycon are the best way to go
Is there any good to put capacitor to all those esc and the battery terminals also, i have now one capacitor installed battery terminals but would like to put some esc capacitors too.
+Mr.Viceroy it's actually better to put a small capacitor of 330 uF on each ESC than to put a single big one on the power leads.
okey, i got only 470uf 25v but i try those on esc
I accidentally ordered Panasonic 25V 680uf caps for my 4S build but it should not be a huge problem i hope? Otherwise i screwed up again lol.
edit: Low ESR for +-pads
25v is fine for 4S.
Hi Josh, i'm troubleshooting video issues in my copter and am going to add a 1000uf cap to the battery lead and 330uf to my ESCs. I'm flying mostly 4s, will I need 25v or 25v?
Keep it up mate!
Nevermind, I did my own research (fancy that)!
Joshua Bardwell Hiya josh what's your best choice of filter for fpv interference
when it's up to 2-5 feet of the ground it's ok but 20 feet or more and it's I'm not getting lines it's like half snowing look lol iv still have the video I was trying to get a lovely video of the sunrise and bright orange sky but it didn't turnout very good at all am not sure if I need to put a noise filter on my main power supply from my battery can you please advise me on this please josh
Thanks William
was the second test done only with caps on esc only or did it include the 1000uF on battery?
Only caps on the ESCs. Good question.
Hey thank you for producing this great video . But please give me reason why always 25v and 35v capacitors i just also at 4s. In my opinion 16v is enough for the normal battery cells voltage . Thanks for giving me a short answer.
The capacitor voltage needs to handle voltage spikes that happen in the quad.
Is it better to get the ones with the lowest impedance shown on the list?
+Ryan Schmaltz I think so. But really any of them will make a big difference.
OK. Just ordered a few of the 25V and 35V. Thanks Josh!
Hi Joshua, I know this is a little after the video was made but I’m just catching up as I’m new.
I soldered 470uf 25v 105c capacitors at the power lead output to the ESCs (spedix is 30) and I believe it has really cleared up the video noise at max throttle and down to around half throttle but at exactly half throttle it is still pretty bad? This is with no props on during testing.Do you know why I’m am still getting horizontal lines at half throttle and anything above that is fixed?I realise this could be an open ended question but you have lots of experience that could possibly explain this...Cheers
Then how can you tell by looking at one???
THANK YOU
Naive question: why ESCs manufacturers don't integrate such caps in the ESCs themselves?
tonnoz Maybe too heavy and expensive?
I have many hold emax 20A esc and a turnigy 30A esc with capacitor. They all have a 5V BEC regulator. It's certainly not too expensive but add weight, takes up space and maybe they are not always justified/necessary.
In general they do include the caps. It is the size requirements on miniquads and the race to miniaturise the ESC that led them to be dropped.
Can it be that one of those integrated caps got knocked out during a crash? I am experiencing video totally off (static) during punches/high throttle and I am running out of ideas. I am powering the camera from the +5v @300mA from the vtx and the vtx from the 12v BEC on the PDB. Swapped VTX, problem not solved, Installed LC-Filter problem not solved. Waiting for caps now.
Marketing. People want really tiny ESCs. And some builds can safely omit them.
i am just building my quad. Can I check if there are any noises without flying? by running motors without props on? Will it be visible ? or just in flying? and another question: i've never done mod with capacitors on esc's or even vbat. Should I connect + from capacitor to + in esc and - from capacitor to - on esc or what? You may think it's stupid question, but i don't want to burn anything. Thanks for answer!
Try flying it with no capacitors and if video is clear and the motors stay cool, don't worry.
The ESC is installed in parallel with the capacitor. So the capacitor + leg goes to the ESC power + pad, and same for the - leg which goes to the ESC power - pad.
thanks Mr. Joshua! In my old build I remember that I had sooo much stronger noises than You had on Your Shuriken, it was on cheap 600mw vtx but on my new build i will use tbs unify race, maybe it would help.