Wow, didnt expect this video! There were so many things which made the Lynx stand out, the savage acceleration, the rattles, the large bonded windows, the angled windscreen and the axle noises wailing away to name but a few! They really divided opinion whilst waking everyone up to them! The following information came in an email from Basil Hancock who was heavily involved with the Lynx project and which should partially answer your question: "The National had come in for a lot of criticism for internal reflections, so with the Mk2 National a more bulbous curved windscreen derived from the DAB screen (but not, as often stated, actually a DAB screen), was fitted. With the plan to use flat windscreens on the Lynx, we needed to look at options. A steeply angled front was rejected as taking up too much front overhang and reducing the front door width. A Dutch-style lantern windscreen was considered but quickly rejected. The Dutch Nationals were rebuilt with lantern screens, by the way. I was keen on reviving the old recessed windscreen idea, as I felt that if properly planned it could work well and allow a flat front to allow maximum width for the front door. There was a lot of scepticism, but I wrote a report which showed relatively modern recessed screens on BMMO S21, S22 and S23, modernised RF and Flexible 870, even though the RF actually used a single curvature screen. We constructed a mock-up with a screen which could be tilted to any backward angle, and also angled horizontally, put in a National driving cab and seat and carried out tests with a range of different people to optimise the angle. Then we had to angle the sides and recess to make sure that it caused the minimum obstruction to vision. We found it worked best with a small flat glass below the main screen so that the angled section started higher up. We built the first front end mock-up and got it wrong, so we had to cut it out, reprofile the recesses and change the glass size and shape, and also take a cut out of the front offside A-post moulding, and it worked. The rest, as they say, is history. I must say that I drove a few Lynx and I think that the vision was good and reflections were minimised." It would be interesting to put the rest of the similarities to him. I believe the Lynx was the first bus in the UK to use bonded windows.
Hello! I'm really glad you liked the video!! Thanks so much for the information from Basil Hancock!! That's really interesting - all the details about developing the front windscreen! Awesome that it came from Basil himself!!! Thanks very much for watching!!
Being from the West Midlands, these were everywhere where I lived! I have quite a soft spot for them. And the one and only time I have ever driven a bus was a leyland lynx. One of the Gardener engined pre production batch when West Midlands Travel converted them for the training fleet.
The Lynx was a real eye opener after going to work on Nationals. The acceleration was fantastic and used to make me chuckle when a car came to a red light in the outside lane expecting to get away in front and he Lynx left it standing. West Riding got them early on and there was a problem with the windows falling out. It happened on one I was on going round a corner. I saw the glass moving out from the bottom and told the driver. Oh not another he said. The back window had fallen out of some as well. And my first time on one it blew out white smoke from the heater duct just before our destination, the driver said he knew something was wrong when he put the blower on and the power went on some circuits. Apart from that I don't recall any breakdowns and loved the sound of the YeeHaa transmission. Always been curious about the emergency door handle that had a very neat casting and neat block holding the rod but between then a rough cut block of steel with two screws through Looks like an oversight in the design and a quick fix rather than making a new thicker casting.
Hello! Very interesting story about the Lynx! A lot of US transit systems have moved away from the bonded or ribbon glass windows because of what you described - it's usually framed windows today. Didn't know about the door handle issue - sounds like an interesting detail to look at. Thank you for watching!!
I drove these nice buses in West Midlands. They were bloody quick! I was at Quinton bus garage and Yardley Wood after Quinton closed in June 1997. The bloody windows rattled like the clappers. Carried a piece of cardboard to wedge in the drivers window. Such a great experience driving them, i recall the early engine type, a gardener i think. The ones i drove were Cummins powered. Went on to Volvo B10s and the little one, was it the B6? The little ones were quite underpowered really but did it's job. Wonderful days indeed.
You have made my day Jeffrey. After maybe 100 different photos of Leyland Lynxs had flashed past my eyes the second to last triggered my bus spotting spidey senses.. A Maidstone & District unit working the westbound No. 7 route and showing on its destination blind my childhood home village of Hadlow. Thanks man !
0:14 One of my friends owned this very bus until quite recently for well over 30 years! I certainly wasn't expecting to see it here, great video covering the history of these motors. They're some of my favourites, and I've ridden quite a few examples across the UK.
I remember going up to the Alexander factory in Belfast and seeing the B60 chassis and we where told not to photograph it I believe Ulsterbus was involved with it's development. A few months later in early 1986 I remember going back to the factory on an Irish Transport Trust outing on a City Bus Alexander N type Lynx possibly the one in the photograph. Four off them where painted in Northern Ireland Railways livery in 1987 and used on Railway stations link buses with a Tiger jointing them in the same livery. I remember getting on the Belfast is buzzing one where I lived on the number 32 route. From 1988 City Bus bought N Type Tigers with a drop frame entrance. Thank you sir for a great video and the three Northern Ireland Lynx photographs. Hard to remember I was there now travelling in Metro Gemini around the city.
Hello! Thank you for the experiences you had with the Lynx in Belfast - very interesting. Glad you liked the video!! Thank you very much for watching!!
I can remember riding on the lynx in my home town of Stockton on tees . Are good times. Thank you Jeff for bringing us these videos. Keep up the great work 👍
What a stellar presentation!! I loved how you included pics of the ones that made it to Australia and touched on it too. That one pictured under construction at JW Boltons in Western Australia is a very early example completed in 1984 as a demo. The side sections were done by this Perth bodybuilder with the front and rear of the Lynx combined with it. Note that the orange Action Canberra demonstrator shown is the very same bus. I know a guy who's ridden in that bus which is powered by a Leyland TL11 with a voith gearbox, and he described it as a rocket. I've ridden one of the three later built demonstrators with Cummins engine and ZF gearbox. I'd love to ride this Leyland powered one someday. Unfortunately it has only got one door now. I gathered years ago that Grumman Flxible pictured was a main rival to the RTSs. I always liked the wrap-around tail lights on them. I had no idea they appeared in 1978. They look much newer.
Hello! I'm really happy you liked the video!! Yes, could not leave out the Australian Lynxes. Thanks for the additional info on them! And yes, the Grumman bus was the main rival to the RTS in the US. Thank you for watching!!!
@@JeffreyOrnstein forgot there was one or two fully bodied by Pressed Metal of Sydney based largely on the German VOV2 design! It's called the Metro90 body and Sydney's STA had around 300 Mercedes O405s with the same body. They must have been hoping to entice STA to buy some Lynxes by building one with that bodywork.
Remember these in Nottingham on the 78 City - Beechdale route, very quick off the mark, nice ride, great windows! With age they soon developed "rattles', but not to drastic! The only problem I remember as a passenger was the "smell"! This was in the days when smoking was allowed on board, and the cigarette smell never left the bus, to the point they became known as "stink boxes"! The nationals never seemed to have this problem?
The Badgerline group (later one half of Firstgroup) had quite a sizeable fleet of Lynxs spreader over several fleets all over the country. Badgerline itself only had around 6 while neighbouring City Line (Bristol) had over 60 in one of the best liveries ever worn by the Lynx.
I remember the first time I rode a Leyland Lynx's, was in 1987, from Clinkern Wood to St Helens Town centre they were lovely to ride on. It is operated by Halton Transport.
I had two experiences with the Leyland Lynx. First time was when we had to take lots of them from Travel West Midland to the Volvo bus dealer in Loughborough for work in 1993/4. Second time was when I was working as a bus driver in 2007. We were running short of buses. The management reintroduced the Lynx. Most of the drivers liked the Lynx, however, I found it difficult to drive compared to the “modern” buses we had!!!!! I went back to lorry driving shortly after!!! Still love a good bus video though!!! 😊
Leylands last gasp killed by deregulation. I used many of Halton Transport which stuck with them to the bitter end and were the only new buses seen in Merseyside in the early 1990s.Over a thousand builds was a respectable total given the dire times caused by the anti-bus 1985 Transport Act. Only the first few Halton Lynxes had Leyland engines, most had Cummins engines and were lively peformers from my recall but with Leyland having taken over so many firms their own takeover by Volvo was a form of Karma. Did you know that ZF stood for Zahnrad Fabrik? Which is German for.....Gearbox Manufacturer. As simple as that!' Well presented Jeffrey!
Hello! Thanks for the additional info about Halton! I think I may have seen the German name, but didn't include it. But I did not know what it meant, now I do! Thank you for watching!!!
@@JeffreyOrnstein Halton Transport served the towns of Widnes and Runcorn in the North West of England, Widnes being just over 10 miles from the centre of Liverpool. The operator started off as Widnes Corporation Transport (Corporation then being another name for a Borough Council) which was directly owned by the local council, in 1974 the councils of Runcorn and Widnes were merged to form the Borough of Halton, although the towns kept their names, but the bus operator became Halton Borough Transport. In 1986 all bus companies were privatised so a company called 'Halton Transport' was set up, the shares being held by the Borough Council. Sadly in latter years a change in management saw the company go into decline and ceased trading. At 0:05 you will see a Halton bus en route to Prescot. I would like to go on record David Cunningham was manager of Halton Transport and worked hard to make the company a thriving business as well as a reliable transport undertaking, sadly his successors did not seem to have the same commitment.
Hi Jeffrey great video as ever I grew up and still live in the West Midlands and both midland red and West Midlands travel had a massive fleet between them of lynx which covered the whole range of production and probably all the engine options They were so comfortable and great having large windows being a passenger great to see some have survived into preservation keep up the hard work Daniel
I never saw a Leyland Lynx but I still love the National, that was the best ever bus in my opinion. After deregulation my local bus company used minibuses
Certainly a sharp looking bus. It does resemble an ELDORADO NATIONAL XHF as well. They certainly had any number of chassis options didn’t they? Another nice one Jeffery.
Hello! Oh, yes, I do see some resemblance to the Eldorado bus!!! I think the Lynx only had one chassis from Leyland, believe it or not!! Thank you for watching!!!
I wouldn't be surprised if most of the Tees and District Lynxes were buses purchased by United Automobile Services. Tees and District was the part of United that service the Teesside area and parts of North Yorkshire and County Durhham. It was split off from United by the owners, Caldaire Holdings, in 1990. Caldaire also owned West Riding Automobile Company at this time, another operator of the Lynx, meaning they could have even transferred the Lynxes between West Riding and United/Tees and District from time to time (a common practice in the National Bus Company days which still goes on today).
A small bus company I worked had one of these and it wasn't too bad a vehicle. It was an ex Alder Valley machine and had obviously had a hard life before, as it was a bit battered, to say the leàst, but it did go weĺl. Many old Leyland Nationals did live on under a new guise, and that was the Greenway National, which were marginally better than the original, as they were also re engined, but ours on LCNW didn't last very long. Another very interesting video, keep them coming.
I think that the Lynx is an iconic piece of industrial design- especially the ultra modern, modular design, but with that tilted driver's window referencing the 1950s! I think the design innovations it introduced are still influencing vehicles today. I lived in Southampton when they were first introduced there, and the wide entrance, spacious interior and insane acceleration really marked them out. Later on, I moved to Cardiff, which also had a large Lynx fleet, so I spent a lot of time riding them. Much prefer them to the Leyland National. Really enjoy your channel BTW- really informative!
Fond memories of the Lynx, my bus to/from school back in the mid-late 90s was most often a West Midlands Travel Lynx. I always found the raked back driver's window very striking, and thought it was overall a very attractive looking bus. Very rattly though!
Goodnight Sir. The Leyland Lynx Bus aka B-60 looks like a combination of a Flexible 870 aka the Grumman and Orion VI Buse sir .Thank-you for making another of your awesome videos 📹 sir
Know of the Lynx and a successor to the National. It looked a bit square for my liking. The AEC RF also had an angled driver's window. I believe there were Lynx's operating in parts of London too, under deregulation that happened. Good video.
Hello! Oh yes, you are right, there were Lynxes in London....I should have had a pic of it in the video! Glad you liked the video and thanks for watching!!
I remember the Leyland Lynx! I was living in Birmingham around the time WMT were replacing their ageing Leyland Nationals with Lynxes. My regular route was still being operated mostly with MCW Metrobuses, with single-deckers occasionally seen outside peak times. The Lynx, with its amazing angles, 2-part doors, wide step, push-button gearchange and those amazing windows just made the National look old-fashioned. I guess the raked windscreen must have been for the driver's benefit -- was it a way of avoiding unwanted reflections and glare?
Not so. The original vertical Gardners (5LW, 6LW etc.) date back to the early '30s, but the horizontal versions and the uprated 6LX didn't appear until the 1950s and the 6HLX only in the 60s. There followed 6LXB & 6LXC upgrades, and the 6HLXCT was a turbocharged horizontal unit which only appeared in Gardner's final years as an engine manufacturer. Gardner were constantly updating their designs to cope with the demand for more power and greater economy, and though all their units had a strong family resemblance there wasn't much in common between the earliest units and the last.
Willowbrook built a very Lynx inspired bus body called the Warrior lacking the split windscreen & bonded glazing. Think they were only offered on second hand chasis
Another great potted history of a UK bus, certainly a resemblance to that Flxible there One coach I would like you to look at would be a Commer chassis with the Rootes 2 stroke diesel engine there were some Duple bodies Commer's run by Royal Red and Creams coaches in Llandudno North Wales Late 1950's early 1960's, they had similar Duple bodies to the Bedford SB's those companies also used The Rootes 2 stroke had a distinctive sound and was more powerful than the Bedford chassis diesel but more noisy.
Excellent video, thanks. I used to get a WMPTE Lynx each week for music lessons and I loved them. Would you do a similar video on the Optare Delta? By far the prettiest bus in my opinion.
I've ridden on buses all my life. Until Jeffrey's videos started popping up in my recommendations, I had never once considered the different models, although in hindsight I must have been on many. To me, they were just buses. How wrong I was!
Hello! I'm so glad my videos found you, LOL! It's amazing how ordinary things that you may not think are interesting...definitely are!! Thank you for your great comment and for watching!!
@@JeffreyOrnstein Thank you for your great videos. Have you written any books on buses? I expect the video content would be relatively easy to put down on paper.
I have only ever driven one, however a local independent operator bought a number of Lynx's in about 1988, they were comfortable and accelerated quickly compared to the Nationals they replaced, I don't think they were as well built as the National. Interesting piece of trivia, as well as operating the last Lynx to be built, Halton also operated the last Leyland National C49 OCM
Yes Nottingham city transport had some back in the day they were great to travel on ,,, how ever not as good looking as the nationals before them. Also as you pointed out they had different engine options so sounded very different to the old Nationals
I have a few memories of the small fleet of these GM Buses owned, they could certainly shift. They ended up being run into the ground though by its succesor First Manchester.
We had six at Stanford brook for the 190 originally for the 283 they looked smart when new the entrance/ exit door was in yellow ,then Hounslow took them for the H37 ,imagine if things were different LT London buses would of probably brought much more The double decker looked good All the best Mark 😊😊
Another great video Jeffrey, the lynx is probably the most modern bus I like, what your video got me thinking though was that while the class 142 trains used national components and were built right at the end of national production. The class 155s were built 87/88 after national production had stopped and well into the lynx era. The units still used some national parts, but it got me wondering if they ever considered a rail vehicle using lynx parts? Ribbon glazing was still in the future for British rail vehicles the first being the 170s of 1999 but I wonder if it was considered for the 155 Cheers Russ
Hi Jeffrey, on the Lynx only one was delivered to the Scottish Bus Group to Kelvin Scottish which ran from Old Kilpatrick depot. I don’t know much about it but some private Scottish operators did buy them, McGills of Barrhead, A A Motor Group in Ayrshire and Dart in Paisley had a few second hand examples which I drove. I wasn’t really that impressed with them but only slightly better than the National. I suppose I am very biased as my preferred single deck bus will always be the 0.680 powered Leyland Leopard which were in abundance in the SBG and a very hard act to follow.
Remember the Lynx’s ran by Cleveland Transit, seemed quite nippy with the high revving Diesel that it was fitted with. Not sure which engine they specified. Still looks a bit Leyland National inside, especially around the roof area.
Oh, you are right, the interior does look a lot like a National! Thanks for relating your experience with the Cleveland Lynxes and thanks for watching!
The front on the Mk2 was changed to house an intercooler for the Volvo engines. It's funny how it's similar to the National Mk2 with it's front radiator.
I've always seen the lynx as a bit of a mystery as the part of the UK I'm from didn't have the Lynx I saw one at a bus rally and was mystified by it's odd look! With the old style tilted windscreen similar to some of the Wright HandyBus bodied Dennis Darts
the mage at 3:33 the lynx has the destination as kilwinning ... the rest of it says "david gage street" as that was where the route terminated and to restart going to kilmarnock, the other aa bus was to ardrosson chaphill hill mount ... i was on those quite a lot, both buses took the same route for 80% of the journey, this was untill a highway crossover section was blocked off due to a fatal accident in which an AA bus was split in 2 by a car while it was crossing the highway, the occupants of the car died at the scene, 5 other people also died in the impact.
@@JeffreyOrnstein i made a mistake on the route, the kilwinning david gage street went to ayr and the ardrosson chaphill mount was to kilmarnock, the other bus companys were A1 and western buses, A1 did majority ardrosson - kilmarnock, western did largs to ayr and kilmarnock, sorry for the late reply to fix my mistake.
Jeffrey Have you ever thought about doing a podcast about some of the much rarer buses such as Vulcan Gilford or even Foden and Atkinson just a thought
@@JeffreyOrnstein Gilford we’re always before there time very advanced as we’re Sunbeam moter buses BUT what interest s most are Vulcan who produced double deckers for Glasgow city there’s something for you to research I also add if you do take it on and it is half as interesting as the rest of your work it will be brilliant Thanks Jeffrey keep up the good work
I clicked because of the Metropolitan Transport Trust bus with the air cooler on the roof. Back in the days when it was a state government organisation. It got privatised, and things went south.
@JeffreyOrnstein Yes ,loved . The MTT also bought a National for the long hills run but proved to be a failure because of the transmission control system. So it ended up just running around the city block as free service I believe.
@@chuckmaddison2924 I wonder why they chose that? Sydney's AEC Regal IVs and Leyland Worldmasters had auto SCGs and they disabled them in the 1960s to make them semi automatic. They didn't work well in the hilly terrain. It didn't help that they took off in 2nd and would not kick down until they were about to stall.
Never came across Lynxs that much for some reason. Bit surprising that they used the TL11 engine which had proved so unpopular with many operators in the National, most people being delighted with the National 2 which had options of the Leyland 0680 or Gardner engines instead.
My local private bus operator in Sydney North And Western Bus Lines were a devoted Leyland customer and had 20 Leyland Tigers in the fleet, all with TL11 engines and they seemed to get a good run out of them. They had very good mechanics who knew Leylands like the back of their hands and the buses were well maintained.
Things I remember from the Lynx... if you breathed on the accelerator pedal then you shot of like a rocket, but then you would hit the brakes and nothing would happen... I liked them, better than a national for sure. In many ways it was Leyland trying to get back to a bus similar to the Bristol RE. Unfortunately they were a heavyweight in a lightweight world and the bodies just fell apart.
I rode on them a few times when they were put on the express 607 in London for a little while, and also with Eastern National. Always seemed to be quick to pull away and quite noisy. Preferred the DAF SB220 s
The lynx wasn't a bad bus in a lot of aways but it did have several shortcomings, the first being it's asymmetrical windscreen arrangement. this caused dangerous blind spots in which the driver could easily lose sight of a cyclist or even a car in my case!. It also was aerodynamically poor as at speeds over 40mph road dirt would be plastered all over the drivers side windows and mirror. Inside the rough finish of this moulding did not give a good impression of quality, and the slope of the glass towards the driver made the cab feel oppressive, which was not helped by the sunblind which would not stay down either. The cab was cramped, not helped by a drivers seat without adjustment for the backrest, the pedals were set too high so it was impossible to rest your heel on the floor when pressing the pedals. When Leyland stopped making their own engines and transmissions, they were substituted with Cummins engines and ZF gearboxes which really did not work well together, as it was impossible to control engine RPM leading to the bus accelerating uncontrollably in the lower gears making these buses stressful to drive in urban traffic. I never drove a Volvo powered one, but the B10M buses were superb in this respect. It is a shame that after all the successful buses that Leyland built over the years that things ended in the way they did, which was not really their fault, but the policies of the government of the day.
@@jamesfrench7299 oh right. I never heard anyone call it lantern when I worked on the mk1s. But b59s were 1974? And the aecs before that had a driver only sloped screen.
This episode invokes a lot of thought. The Flexible 870 was no stellar model to copy. Bonded windows suck. So do expensive curved windows. The drawn back angled drivers side window is a godsend for slower busses in rainstorms, and it even repels some reflection. I have never rode in a low floor bus, nor do I ever want to. They are not only clumsy and prone to corrosion, but a sturdy raised floor presents a battering ram to a car or vehicle out of control. I was once in an accident in an MCI bus that took a hard hit amidships right under me. Considerable outside damage resulted, but the bus took it well with it's heavy aluminum and stainless hardware and excellent coach standards. Ten years out of a bus is very substandard and disappointing, even in a roadsalt state. MCI's Gilligs, General Motors, some Grummans, and Prevosts all have excellent build standards, except the signature nitrogen filled curved glass windows of the Prevosts were a horror show to replace. Driver section design is very important, as is automatic transmission engineering. Some of your previous overdesigned British busses were horror shows. I don't think Japan has ever created good coachwork.
Hello! Oh, glad you were not hurt in that accident! A true testament to how great the MCI buses were! Yeah, never seen an attractive bus coming out of Japan! Thank you for watching!!
You can trace the raked windscreen back to Birmingham Corporation buses of the 1930s, which retained it right through to the 1950s. Many coachbuilders used it in a less extreme form on early Atlanteans, Wulfrunians and full-fronted saloons, Midland Red and BET Federation bodies also made widespread use of it until the advent of convex curved screens. If you look at pictures of Hants & Dorset Ks and Lodekkas, you can see that they usually fitted a metal sunshade above the windscreen to achieve the same effect.
I had never seen a lynx mk2 till now , the front end on the mk2 doesnt look good. I went to school in leyland lynx's, if a double deck MCW didnt turn up . Sometimes on a leyland fleetline as wmt refurbished a few of them in the early 90s. I used to spend my time waiting for the bus car and bus watching lol.
@@JeffreyOrnstein I had a London United mark 1 Corgi model and a Stagecoach Mark 2. I swapped away the London one and kept the Stagecoach one. I really liked it.
You know what? i kinda strangely prefer the silly little protruding face of MK II over the flatness of MKI.... conssidering i am big fan of most boxy buses my nation ever had i find that silly. But i wont like that oddity speaks to me in some wierd way. (also yes the 1' 998 F/I/A/T Multipla gen 1 is better than its MK II precisely because it looks unique and mad... thats the kind of stylistic preferences my brain has - i will always favour interesting crazy but little bit less conviniet over more streamlined and completly bloodless and indistinguushable from everything else well anything from vehicles to personal electronics to clothes). Fifteeen years? i feel like most busses get refurbished after like decade or so rather than replaced Linx must have been (oh god like ATARI Lynx) - too expenssive to run or something for it to not get that type of treatement. Whoa hold on am i missing something? was this not meant to be struggling bus? 1'000+ feels like rather decent production to me. Coincidences DO happen and repeatidly throught the history there were cases of simultanious discovery of or preference for specific things. often due to similar level of technological developement crossed with simillar requirements. or USamericans could've just stolen the plans i mean that would not be the first time they did something like that... or last time. Nor would they be only ones. FASCINATING insight as always good video and did leave me curious to learn more .) and i am very much light railway (aka tram) fan so that is as much fanfare as you get from me for busses .)
The Lynx was one of the worst buses ever to wear a Leyland badge, I had the misfortune to travel on many of them in the 1980's & 90's, in their later years their poor suspension really showed, added to that was poor sound insulation and rattling windows that made these bucket of bolts terrible buses to travel on, it got to the point where if I saw a Lynx approaching my stop I'd let it pass and catch the next bus. Have a look for the Willowbrook Warrior bodied Leyland Leoopard, I've alway thought the Lynx was almost copied from that.
Oh my gosh!! Didn't know the Lynx was that bad! Will look at the Warrior - now that you mention it, I think I did see that, but forgot to add it to the video! Thank you for watching!!
@@basilhancock6754 I have done some research on this, the Willowbrook Warrior and the Leyland Lynx both came onto the market in the same year, 1986, which surprised me, I thought the Warrior was a late 70's design, but you live and learn! The Warrior was a poor selling bus from 1986 to 1992, the Lynx was far more popular from 1986 to 1993, given they both had to be developed, it's hard to say who copied who, personally, I thought they were great looking buses, I neaver travelled on a Worrior, but my experience of the Lynx wasn't good.
Go-Ahead butchered the fronts of their Lynx's with that awful grill and smaller nearside windscreen Ps the name Lynx was a reused name for Leyland, it was last used as a wagon/truck, a 4 wheeled 10 tonner with an updated Ergo cab design
Comment from Basil Hancock. Sorry to ruin your comment, but as the person who designed the Lynx body, we looked at a number of recessed windscreens, including the Grumman Flxible 870. It was used to demonstrate to Leyland management that overseas operators did use recessed sloping windscreens (as did the Gillig Phantom) , and that it was accepted practice in some modern designs. However, the other features (bonded glazing, body shape, opening windows, etc) were not influenced by the 870. The biggest influences on the windscreen design were actually the Midland Red BMMO S21/S22/S23 family and London Transport's modernised RF Green Line coaches. We constructed a test rig with flat windscreens which could change angles in both the vertical and horizontal panes until we got what we considered to be the optimum angle. The cutaway in the offside front pillar was one result, as to have used as wide a pillar as on the nearside would have obstructed vision too much. Note that the 870 windscreen was not flat as it curved around at its outer edge, while the modernised RF windscreen had a vertical curve. The Lynx windscreens were totally flat. The only curved glass on the bus was the front destination glass, and that was actually a flat glass panel pulled into a slight curve when being bonded in place, which is why some modifications with rubber mounted destination panels never looked right.
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Wow, didnt expect this video! There were so many things which made the Lynx stand out, the savage acceleration, the rattles, the large bonded windows, the angled windscreen and the axle noises wailing away to name but a few! They really divided opinion whilst waking everyone up to them!
The following information came in an email from Basil Hancock who was heavily involved with the Lynx project and which should partially answer your question:
"The National had come in for a lot of criticism for internal reflections, so with the Mk2 National a more bulbous curved windscreen derived from the DAB screen (but not, as often stated, actually a DAB screen), was fitted. With the plan to use flat windscreens on the Lynx, we needed to look at options. A steeply angled front was rejected as taking up too much front overhang and reducing the front door width. A Dutch-style lantern windscreen was considered but quickly rejected. The Dutch Nationals were rebuilt with lantern screens, by the way.
I was keen on reviving the old recessed windscreen idea, as I felt that if properly planned it could work well and allow a flat front to allow maximum width for the front door. There was a lot of scepticism, but I wrote a report which showed relatively modern recessed screens on BMMO S21, S22 and S23, modernised RF and Flexible 870, even though the RF actually used a single curvature screen.
We constructed a mock-up with a screen which could be tilted to any backward angle, and also angled horizontally, put in a National driving cab and seat and carried out tests with a range of different people to optimise the angle. Then we had to angle the sides and recess to make sure that it caused the minimum obstruction to vision. We found it worked best with a small flat glass below the main screen so that the angled section started higher up. We built the first front end mock-up and got it wrong, so we had to cut it out, reprofile the recesses and change the glass size and shape, and also take a cut out of the front offside A-post moulding, and it worked. The rest, as they say, is history. I must say that I drove a few Lynx and I think that the vision was good and reflections were minimised."
It would be interesting to put the rest of the similarities to him. I believe the Lynx was the first bus in the UK to use bonded windows.
Hello! I'm really glad you liked the video!! Thanks so much for the information from Basil Hancock!! That's really interesting - all the details about developing the front windscreen! Awesome that it came from Basil himself!!! Thanks very much for watching!!
Thanks!
Fascinating. It's amazing how the choice of colors and livery either enhance or detract from the overall look of the bus.
Hello! Yes, sometimes the paint job makes all the difference! Thank you for watching!!!
Being from the West Midlands, these were everywhere where I lived! I have quite a soft spot for them. And the one and only time I have ever driven a bus was a leyland lynx. One of the Gardener engined pre production batch when West Midlands Travel converted them for the training fleet.
Thanks for your experience with the Lynx! Thank you for watching!!
The Lynx was a real eye opener after going to work on Nationals. The acceleration was fantastic and used to make me chuckle when a car came to a red light in the outside lane expecting to get away in front and he Lynx left it standing. West Riding got them early on and there was a problem with the windows falling out. It happened on one I was on going round a corner. I saw the glass moving out from the bottom and told the driver. Oh not another he said. The back window had fallen out of some as well. And my first time on one it blew out white smoke from the heater duct just before our destination, the driver said he knew something was wrong when he put the blower on and the power went on some circuits. Apart from that I don't recall any breakdowns and loved the sound of the YeeHaa transmission. Always been curious about the emergency door handle that had a very neat casting and neat block holding the rod but between then a rough cut block of steel with two screws through Looks like an oversight in the design and a quick fix rather than making a new thicker casting.
Hello! Very interesting story about the Lynx! A lot of US transit systems have moved away from the bonded or ribbon glass windows because of what you described - it's usually framed windows today. Didn't know about the door handle issue - sounds like an interesting detail to look at. Thank you for watching!!
I've driven custom coach buses with c9 cat's with 400hp, 90l/100 in summer, but would beat most cars of the line.
I drove these nice buses in West Midlands. They were bloody quick!
I was at
Quinton bus garage and Yardley Wood after Quinton closed in June 1997.
The bloody windows rattled like the clappers. Carried a piece of cardboard to wedge in the drivers window.
Such a great experience driving them, i recall the early engine type, a gardener i think. The ones i drove were Cummins powered. Went on to Volvo B10s and the little one, was it the B6? The little ones were quite underpowered really but did it's job.
Wonderful days indeed.
Hello! Thanks so much for your experience with the Lynx and Volvo! Thank you for watching!!!
You have made my day Jeffrey. After maybe 100 different photos of Leyland Lynxs had flashed past my eyes the second to last triggered my bus spotting spidey senses.. A Maidstone & District unit working the westbound No. 7 route and showing on its destination blind my childhood home village of Hadlow. Thanks man !
Hello! I'm so glad I made your day and that you liked the video!!! Could not leave out a Maidstone & District Lynx! Thank you for watching!!!
I remember the West Midlands Travel Lynx's and how comfy the seats where especially on the Timesaver coach style seats riding into Birmingham.
Great to hear it was a comfy bus!! Thanks for watching!
0:14 One of my friends owned this very bus until quite recently for well over 30 years!
I certainly wasn't expecting to see it here, great video covering the history of these motors. They're some of my favourites, and I've ridden quite a few examples across the UK.
Hello! I'm really glad you liked the video! Had to get your friend's bus in there, LOL! Thank you very much for watching!!
I remember going up to the Alexander factory in Belfast and seeing the B60 chassis and we where told not to photograph it I believe Ulsterbus was involved with it's development. A few months later in early 1986 I remember going back to the factory on an Irish Transport Trust outing on a City Bus Alexander N type Lynx possibly the one in the photograph. Four off them where painted in Northern Ireland Railways livery in 1987 and used on Railway stations link buses with a Tiger jointing them in the same livery. I remember getting on the Belfast is buzzing one where I lived on the number 32 route. From 1988 City Bus bought N Type Tigers with a drop frame entrance. Thank you sir for a great video and the three Northern Ireland Lynx photographs. Hard to remember I was there now travelling in Metro Gemini around the city.
Hello! Thank you for the experiences you had with the Lynx in Belfast - very interesting. Glad you liked the video!! Thank you very much for watching!!
I can remember riding on the lynx in my home town of Stockton on tees . Are good times. Thank you Jeff for bringing us these videos. Keep up the great work 👍
Hello! I'm reallly glad you liked this video! Thanks very much for watching again!!
I used to drive one for a local independent over 20yrs ago.. a Cummins L10/ZF, G76 UYV.. absolute weapon it was! ❤
Great to hear it was an awesome bus! Thanks very much for watching!!
@JeffreyOrnstein I always watch mate. Love your videos Jeffery
What a stellar presentation!! I loved how you included pics of the ones that made it to Australia and touched on it too. That one pictured under construction at JW Boltons in Western Australia is a very early example completed in 1984 as a demo. The side sections were done by this Perth bodybuilder with the front and rear of the Lynx combined with it. Note that the orange Action Canberra demonstrator shown is the very same bus. I know a guy who's ridden in that bus which is powered by a Leyland TL11 with a voith gearbox, and he described it as a rocket.
I've ridden one of the three later built demonstrators with Cummins engine and ZF gearbox. I'd love to ride this Leyland powered one someday. Unfortunately it has only got one door now.
I gathered years ago that Grumman Flxible pictured was a main rival to the RTSs. I always liked the wrap-around tail lights on them. I had no idea they appeared in 1978. They look much newer.
Hello! I'm really happy you liked the video!! Yes, could not leave out the Australian Lynxes. Thanks for the additional info on them! And yes, the Grumman bus was the main rival to the RTS in the US. Thank you for watching!!!
@@JeffreyOrnstein forgot there was one or two fully bodied by Pressed Metal of Sydney based largely on the German VOV2 design!
It's called the Metro90 body and Sydney's STA had around 300 Mercedes O405s with the same body. They must have been hoping to entice STA to buy some Lynxes by building one with that bodywork.
Great video, I used to catch them every morning to school 97-02. Preston bus had quite a few of them.
Glad you liked the video! Thanks for watching!!
Remember these in Nottingham on the 78 City - Beechdale route, very quick off the mark, nice ride, great windows!
With age they soon developed "rattles', but not to drastic!
The only problem I remember as a passenger was the "smell"! This was in the days when smoking was allowed on board, and the cigarette smell never left the bus, to the point they became known as "stink boxes"! The nationals never seemed to have this problem?
Thanks for your memories of the Lynx! Very interesting to read!
Thumbs up, did not realize how big the bus war was in Europe in the 80s, a real knock down drag out it seemed, great video
Oh yes, it was BIG! It resulted in lots of colorful buses! Glad you liked the video! Thank you for watching!!
I remember travelling on the red and cream Halton Transport Lynx's around Liverpool when I was young.
Sounds great having ridden those buses!! Thank you very much for watching!!
I love UA-cam with its random recommendations! Really interesting video 👍👍
Hello! I'm really glad my video found you, and that you liked it!! Thank you very much for watching!!
The Badgerline group (later one half of Firstgroup) had quite a sizeable fleet of Lynxs spreader over several fleets all over the country. Badgerline itself only had around 6 while neighbouring City Line (Bristol) had over 60 in one of the best liveries ever worn by the Lynx.
Hello! Thanks for the info on the Badgerline Lynxes! And thank you for watching!!
I remember the first time I rode a Leyland Lynx's, was in 1987, from Clinkern Wood to St Helens Town centre they were lovely to ride on. It is operated by Halton Transport.
Hello! Thanks for your memories of the Leyland Lyxn, and thanks very much for watchin!!
I had two experiences with the Leyland Lynx. First time was when we had to take lots of them from Travel West Midland to the Volvo bus dealer in Loughborough for work in 1993/4. Second time was when I was working as a bus driver in 2007. We were running short of buses. The management reintroduced the Lynx. Most of the drivers liked the Lynx, however, I found it difficult to drive compared to the “modern” buses we had!!!!!
I went back to lorry driving shortly after!!!
Still love a good bus video though!!! 😊
Hello! Thanks for your experiences with the Lynx! Very interesting!! Glad you liked the video and thanks for watching!!
Leylands last gasp killed by deregulation. I used many of Halton Transport which stuck with them to the bitter end and were the only new buses seen in Merseyside in the early 1990s.Over a thousand builds was a respectable total given the dire times caused by the anti-bus 1985 Transport Act. Only the first few Halton Lynxes had Leyland engines, most had Cummins engines and were lively peformers from my recall but with Leyland having taken over so many firms their own takeover by Volvo was a form of Karma.
Did you know that ZF stood for Zahnrad Fabrik? Which is German for.....Gearbox Manufacturer. As simple as that!' Well presented Jeffrey!
My cousin's partner drove for Halton Transport
Hello! Thanks for the additional info about Halton! I think I may have seen the German name, but didn't include it. But I did not know what it meant, now I do! Thank you for watching!!!
@@JeffreyOrnstein Halton Transport served the towns of Widnes and Runcorn in the North West of England, Widnes being just over 10 miles from the centre of Liverpool. The operator started off as Widnes Corporation Transport (Corporation then being another name for a Borough Council) which was directly owned by the local council, in 1974 the councils of Runcorn and Widnes were merged to form the Borough of Halton, although the towns kept their names, but the bus operator became Halton Borough Transport. In 1986 all bus companies were privatised so a company called 'Halton Transport' was set up, the shares being held by the Borough Council. Sadly in latter years a change in management saw the company go into decline and ceased trading. At 0:05 you will see a Halton bus en route to Prescot.
I would like to go on record David Cunningham was manager of Halton Transport and worked hard to make the company a thriving business as well as a reliable transport undertaking, sadly his successors did not seem to have the same commitment.
Hi Jeffrey great video as ever I grew up and still live in the West Midlands and both midland red and West Midlands travel had a massive fleet between them of lynx which covered the whole range of production and probably all the engine options
They were so comfortable and great having large windows being a passenger great to see some have survived into preservation keep up the hard work Daniel
@@danielrussell446 They were heavy on fuel as well
I never saw a Leyland Lynx but I still love the National, that was the best ever bus in my opinion. After deregulation my local bus company used minibuses
Hello! Yes, the National was a real icon and still is!! Thank you for watching!!!
I reckon it's the same as your favourite Dr Who ... the one you grew up with, so the RF and Patrick Troughton, in that order!
Very only driven one of these and it was very much like a single deck Metrobus. Smooth and quick.
Hello! Wow, must have been interesting to have driven one!! Thank you for watching!!!
Appreciate the use of images of Scottish buses throughout. Great video!!!!
Hello! I'm really glad you liked the video!! Thank you for watching!!!
Certainly a sharp looking bus. It does resemble an ELDORADO NATIONAL XHF as well. They certainly had any number of chassis options didn’t they?
Another nice one Jeffery.
Hello! Oh, yes, I do see some resemblance to the Eldorado bus!!! I think the Lynx only had one chassis from Leyland, believe it or not!! Thank you for watching!!!
I wouldn't be surprised if most of the Tees and District Lynxes were buses purchased by United Automobile Services. Tees and District was the part of United that service the Teesside area and parts of North Yorkshire and County Durhham. It was split off from United by the owners, Caldaire Holdings, in 1990. Caldaire also owned West Riding Automobile Company at this time, another operator of the Lynx, meaning they could have even transferred the Lynxes between West Riding and United/Tees and District from time to time (a common practice in the National Bus Company days which still goes on today).
Hello! Thank you for the additional information on the Lynxes!! Thank you for watching!!!
A small bus company I worked had one of these and it wasn't too bad a vehicle. It was an ex Alder Valley machine and had obviously had a hard life before, as it was a bit battered, to say the leàst, but it did go weĺl. Many old Leyland Nationals did live on under a new guise, and that was the Greenway National, which were marginally better than the original, as they were also re engined, but ours on LCNW didn't last very long.
Another very interesting video, keep them coming.
Hello! Thanks for your memories of riding the Lynx! Glad you liked the video! Thank you very much for watching!!
I think that the Lynx is an iconic piece of industrial design- especially the ultra modern, modular design, but with that tilted driver's window referencing the 1950s! I think the design innovations it introduced are still influencing vehicles today. I lived in Southampton when they were first introduced there, and the wide entrance, spacious interior and insane acceleration really marked them out. Later on, I moved to Cardiff, which also had a large Lynx fleet, so I spent a lot of time riding them. Much prefer them to the Leyland National. Really enjoy your channel BTW- really informative!
Hello! Thank you for the nice comment about my channel! I like your analysis of the Lynx! Thank you very much for watching!!
Fond memories of the Lynx, my bus to/from school back in the mid-late 90s was most often a West Midlands Travel Lynx. I always found the raked back driver's window very striking, and thought it was overall a very attractive looking bus. Very rattly though!
Hello! Thanks for your memories of the Lynx!! And thank you for watching!!
Jeffrey
Brilliant and informative video as always. Many thanks
Hello Peter! I'm so glad you really liked the video!!! Thank you for watching!!!
Goodnight Sir. The Leyland Lynx Bus aka B-60 looks like a combination of a Flexible 870 aka the Grumman and Orion VI Buse sir .Thank-you for making another of your awesome videos 📹 sir
Hello! I'm really glad you liked my video! Yes, to me also the Lynx looks like the 870! Thanks for watching!!
Know of the Lynx and a successor to the National. It looked a bit square for my liking. The AEC RF also had an angled driver's window. I believe there were Lynx's operating in parts of London too, under deregulation that happened. Good video.
Hello! Oh yes, you are right, there were Lynxes in London....I should have had a pic of it in the video! Glad you liked the video and thanks for watching!!
I remember the Leyland Lynx! I was living in Birmingham around the time WMT were replacing their ageing Leyland Nationals with Lynxes. My regular route was still being operated mostly with MCW Metrobuses, with single-deckers occasionally seen outside peak times.
The Lynx, with its amazing angles, 2-part doors, wide step, push-button gearchange and those amazing windows just made the National look old-fashioned. I guess the raked windscreen must have been for the driver's benefit -- was it a way of avoiding unwanted reflections and glare?
Hello! Thanks for your memories of the Lynx!! Yes, the angled windscreen was to avoid reflections. Thank you very much for watching!!
Nice looking metro bus. That Gardner 6HLXCT diesel engine is ancient, it powered the Scammel heavy tow trucks of the 1950's - and posibly WW2.🐞🐞
Hello! LOL, that's interesting info you provided about the engine!! Thank you for watching!!!
Not so. The original vertical Gardners (5LW, 6LW etc.) date back to the early '30s, but the horizontal versions and the uprated 6LX didn't appear until the 1950s and the 6HLX only in the 60s. There followed 6LXB & 6LXC upgrades, and the 6HLXCT was a turbocharged horizontal unit which only appeared in Gardner's final years as an engine manufacturer. Gardner were constantly updating their designs to cope with the demand for more power and greater economy, and though all their units had a strong family resemblance there wasn't much in common between the earliest units and the last.
As aways, Jeffrey, beautiful! Thank-you!
Hello John, I'm really happy you liked my video once again!! Thank you for watching!!!
Nice to see a Cleveland Transit liveried example.
Yes!! How can I leave out a Cleveland Lynx!!! Thank you for watching!!!
Willowbrook built a very Lynx inspired bus body called the Warrior lacking the split windscreen & bonded glazing. Think they were only offered on second hand chasis
Oh, yes, I did actually see that, it's quite interesting! A Lynx but not a Lynx!! Thank you for watching!!!
Another great potted history of a UK bus, certainly a resemblance to that Flxible there One coach I would like you to look at would be a Commer chassis with the Rootes 2 stroke diesel engine there were some Duple bodies Commer's run by Royal Red and Creams coaches in Llandudno North Wales Late 1950's early 1960's, they had similar Duple bodies to the Bedford SB's those companies also used The Rootes 2 stroke had a distinctive sound and was more powerful than the Bedford chassis diesel but more noisy.
Hello! Glad you liked the video! Will take a look at that bus you mentioned. Thank you for watching!!
@@JeffreyOrnstein The engine on that chassis was a three cylinder double piston diesel 2 stroke economical but with a distinctive sound.
Excellent video, thanks. I used to get a WMPTE Lynx each week for music lessons and I loved them.
Would you do a similar video on the Optare Delta? By far the prettiest bus in my opinion.
Hello! I'm really glad you liked the video!!! I'll look at the Optare Delta for a possible future video! Thanks very much for watching!!
I've ridden on buses all my life. Until Jeffrey's videos started popping up in my recommendations, I had never once considered the different models, although in hindsight I must have been on many. To me, they were just buses. How wrong I was!
Hello! I'm so glad my videos found you, LOL! It's amazing how ordinary things that you may not think are interesting...definitely are!! Thank you for your great comment and for watching!!
@@JeffreyOrnstein Thank you for your great videos. Have you written any books on buses? I expect the video content would be relatively easy to put down on paper.
I have only ever driven one, however a local independent operator bought a number of Lynx's in about 1988, they were comfortable and accelerated quickly compared to the Nationals they replaced, I don't think they were as well built as the National. Interesting piece of trivia, as well as operating the last Lynx to be built, Halton also operated the last Leyland National C49 OCM
Oh, that's really interesting!! Thanks for relaying your experience and the tidbit about Halton! Thank you for watching!!
Great Vlog…if as a buyer , you didn’t go Cummins / ZF on the specs for a Lynx , you were a fool…..best combination for reliability…..🇮🇲👍👌😜
That as a good combination
Didn't know about that combo!! Glad you liked the video and thank you for watching!!
@@JeffreyOrnstein ZF made transmissions to fit almost any engine,big or small
Cummins was so boring to listen to.
Leyland TL11 hooked to a ZF sounded very unique and satisfying, and it was a Leyland engine.
Yes Nottingham city transport had some back in the day they were great to travel on ,,, how ever not as good looking as the nationals before them.
Also as you pointed out they had different engine options so sounded very different to the old Nationals
Hello! I think the National Mk1 was better looking than the Lynx...not so sure about the Mk2, LOL. Thank you very much for watching!!
Thank you Jeffrey for another great video 😊
I'm really happy you liked it! Thank you for watching!!
Passed my test in a lynx in 2005 at first Sheffield. Strangely I did my test in Huddersfield.
Great to hear that! Thank you for watching!!
I have a few memories of the small fleet of these GM Buses owned, they could certainly shift. They ended up being run into the ground though by its succesor First Manchester.
Thanks for relaying your experience with the Lynx! And thank you for watching!!
We had six at Stanford brook for the 190 originally for the 283 they looked smart when new the entrance/ exit door was in yellow ,then Hounslow took them for the H37 ,imagine if things were different LT London buses would of probably brought much more
The double decker looked good
All the best
Mark 😊😊
Thanks for relaying your experience with the Lynx - I missed putting in a picture of a London one!! Thank you for watching!!
I used to drive one on the X93 Murton to Newcastle and X95 Seaham Parkside to Newcastle and X96 Peterlee to Newcastle along with the Nationals
Thanks for relaying your experience with the Lynx! And thanks for watching!!
This would make a great podcast. I really like these videos :)
Hello! I'm really glad you liked the video!! Thank you for watching!!!
Another great video Jeffrey, the lynx is probably the most modern bus I like, what your video got me thinking though was that while the class 142 trains used national components and were built right at the end of national production. The class 155s were built 87/88 after national production had stopped and well into the lynx era. The units still used some national parts, but it got me wondering if they ever considered a rail vehicle using lynx parts? Ribbon glazing was still in the future for British rail vehicles the first being the 170s of 1999 but I wonder if it was considered for the 155
Cheers Russ
Glad you liked the video!! Oh, that's an interesting thought - a railcar with Lynx parts!! Thank you for watching!!
Hi Jeffrey, on the Lynx only one was delivered to the Scottish Bus Group to Kelvin Scottish which ran from Old Kilpatrick depot. I don’t know much about it but some private Scottish operators did buy them, McGills of Barrhead, A A Motor Group in Ayrshire and Dart in Paisley had a few second hand examples which I drove. I wasn’t really that impressed with them but only slightly better than the National. I suppose I am very biased as my preferred single deck bus will always be the 0.680 powered Leyland Leopard which were in abundance in the SBG and a very hard act to follow.
Oh, I didn't know about the Scottish Lynxes and how they ran! Thank you for watching!!
Preston bus had some. You showed preston bus 215 in your introduction pic.
Hello! Yes, had to include that Preston bus! Thank you very much for watching!!
Remember the Lynx’s ran by Cleveland Transit, seemed quite nippy with the high revving Diesel that it was fitted with. Not sure which engine they specified. Still looks a bit Leyland National inside, especially around the roof area.
Oh, you are right, the interior does look a lot like a National! Thanks for relating your experience with the Cleveland Lynxes and thanks for watching!
The front on the Mk2 was changed to house an intercooler for the Volvo engines. It's funny how it's similar to the National Mk2 with it's front radiator.
Thanks for the additional info! And thanks for watching!!
Never had these in London, the single decker of choice with London Operators were Dennis Darts with Reeves Burges/ Plaxton or Wrightbus bodies
Hello! Thanks for the additional info on the buses in London! Thank you for watching!!!
I've always seen the lynx as a bit of a mystery as the part of the UK I'm from didn't have the Lynx I saw one at a bus rally and was mystified by it's odd look! With the old style tilted windscreen similar to some of the Wright HandyBus bodied Dennis Darts
Oh, that's interesting. I guess the Lynx was scarce in some places!! Thank you for watching!!!
@@JeffreyOrnstein yes East Kent didn't have any Lynxes they soldiered on with National 1s and an ex Dunlop tyres demonstrator National 2
the mage at 3:33 the lynx has the destination as kilwinning ... the rest of it says "david gage street" as that was where the route terminated and to restart going to kilmarnock, the other aa bus was to ardrosson chaphill hill mount ... i was on those quite a lot, both buses took the same route for 80% of the journey, this was untill a highway crossover section was blocked off due to a fatal accident in which an AA bus was split in 2 by a car while it was crossing the highway, the occupants of the car died at the scene, 5 other people also died in the impact.
Thanks for the info about that bus route and thanks very much for watching!
@@JeffreyOrnstein i made a mistake on the route, the kilwinning david gage street went to ayr and the ardrosson chaphill mount was to kilmarnock, the other bus companys were A1 and western buses, A1 did majority ardrosson - kilmarnock, western did largs to ayr and kilmarnock, sorry for the late reply to fix my mistake.
Jeffrey Have you ever thought about doing a podcast about some of the much rarer buses such as Vulcan Gilford or even Foden and Atkinson just a thought
Hello! Will take a look at those! If you have a specific model in mind from one of those builders, please let me know! Thank you for watching!!!
@@JeffreyOrnstein Gilford we’re always before there time very advanced as we’re Sunbeam moter buses BUT what interest s most are Vulcan who produced double deckers for Glasgow city there’s something for you to research
I also add if you do take it on and it is half as interesting as the rest of your work it will be brilliant
Thanks Jeffrey keep up the good work
I clicked because of the Metropolitan Transport Trust bus with the air cooler on the roof.
Back in the days when it was a state government organisation.
It got privatised, and things went south.
Hello! Hope you liked the video! Thank you for watching!!!
@JeffreyOrnstein Yes ,loved . The MTT also bought a National for the long hills run but proved to be a failure because of the transmission control system. So it ended up just running around the city block as free service I believe.
@@chuckmaddison2924 was it an auto rather than driver selected gears? They worked well in London which is mostly flat.
@jamesfrench7299 Pretty sure it was full automatic. The other buses they had were semi auto with a little hand control.
@@chuckmaddison2924 I wonder why they chose that? Sydney's AEC Regal IVs and Leyland Worldmasters had auto SCGs and they disabled them in the 1960s to make them semi automatic. They didn't work well in the hilly terrain. It didn't help that they took off in 2nd and would not kick down until they were about to stall.
My scamazon wrecktangled box & my homepepo wrecktangled boxes look eerily the same too.
LOL, wrecktangle, that's quite creative! Thank you for watching!!!
Never came across Lynxs that much for some reason. Bit surprising that they used the TL11 engine which had proved so unpopular with many operators in the National, most people being delighted with the National 2 which had options of the Leyland 0680 or Gardner engines instead.
Thanks for the additional info on these buses! Thank you for watching!!!
My local private bus operator in Sydney North And Western Bus Lines were a devoted Leyland customer and had 20 Leyland Tigers in the fleet, all with TL11 engines and they seemed to get a good run out of them. They had very good mechanics who knew Leylands like the back of their hands and the buses were well maintained.
Things I remember from the Lynx... if you breathed on the accelerator pedal then you shot of like a rocket, but then you would hit the brakes and nothing would happen... I liked them, better than a national for sure. In many ways it was Leyland trying to get back to a bus similar to the Bristol RE. Unfortunately they were a heavyweight in a lightweight world and the bodies just fell apart.
Hello! Thanks for the experiences with the Lynx! Very interesting!! Thank you very much for watching!!
Sir,Make a video history of Albion buses especially the Viking
Hello! I will look into it for a future video! Thank you very much for watching!!
I rode on them a few times when they were put on the express 607 in London for a little while, and also with Eastern National. Always seemed to be quick to pull away and quite noisy. Preferred the DAF SB220 s
Hello! Thanks for your memories of the Lynx in London! Thank you very much for watching!!
Next one to do is the leyland Olympian double decker.
Ok, will look into it! Thanks for watching!
@@JeffreyOrnstein I live in the area where the first production lynx went into service and rode on it many times during my college years.
The Lynx was a great improvement on the Leyland National.
Great to hear that it was an improvement! Thank you for watching!!!
Mechanically it was, not bodily.
😊👍
Hello! I'm so glad my videos made you interested in buses, LOL! Thank you for watching!!!
There's a lynx in the Falklands that looks like it's part of the garage on the side of a house.
Hello! Oh that sounds interesting!!! Must be a sight to see! Thanks for watching!!
@@JeffreyOrnstein I've got a photo somewhere, but looks like it's been taken on a potato 😂
Brill video by the way.
Hello! Thank you for your very nice comment! And thank you very much for watching!!
The lynx wasn't a bad bus in a lot of aways but it did have several shortcomings, the first being it's asymmetrical windscreen arrangement. this caused dangerous blind spots in which the driver could easily lose sight of a cyclist or even a car in my case!. It also was aerodynamically poor as at speeds over 40mph road dirt would be plastered all over the drivers side windows and mirror.
Inside the rough finish of this moulding did not give a good impression of quality, and the slope of the glass towards the driver made the cab feel oppressive, which was not helped by the sunblind which would not stay down either. The cab was cramped, not helped by a drivers seat without adjustment for the backrest, the pedals were set too high so it was impossible to rest your heel on the floor when pressing the pedals. When Leyland stopped making their own engines and transmissions, they were substituted with Cummins engines and ZF gearboxes which really did not work well together, as it was impossible to control engine RPM leading to the bus accelerating uncontrollably in the lower gears making these buses stressful to drive in urban traffic. I never drove a Volvo powered one, but the B10M buses were superb in this respect. It is a shame that after all the successful buses that Leyland built over the years that things ended in the way they did, which was not really their fault, but the policies of the government of the day.
Hello! Thanks for the very interesting additional info on the Lynx!! Thank you for watching!!!
Look up the mmtb b59 and mk1 from Victoria Australia, bodies built by Ansair. They were before the flxible.
Hello! Thanks for the suggestion! Thank you for watching!!!
No they came out slightly after and had lantern windscreens, not a driver only sloped glass panel.
@@jamesfrench7299 oh right. I never heard anyone call it lantern when I worked on the mk1s. But b59s were 1974? And the aecs before that had a driver only sloped screen.
B59s were 1979 and mk1 MAN SL200s were from 1980 or so.
This episode invokes a lot of thought. The Flexible 870 was no stellar model to copy. Bonded windows suck. So do expensive curved windows. The drawn back angled drivers side window is a godsend for slower busses in rainstorms, and it even repels some reflection. I have never rode in a low floor bus, nor do I ever want to. They are not only clumsy and prone to corrosion, but a sturdy raised floor presents a battering ram to a car or vehicle out of control. I was once in an accident in an MCI bus that took a hard hit amidships right under me. Considerable outside damage resulted, but the bus took it well with it's heavy aluminum and stainless hardware and excellent coach standards. Ten years out of a bus is very substandard and disappointing, even in a roadsalt state. MCI's Gilligs, General Motors, some Grummans, and Prevosts all have excellent build standards, except the signature nitrogen filled curved glass windows of the Prevosts were a horror show to replace. Driver section design is very important, as is automatic transmission engineering. Some of your previous overdesigned British busses were horror shows. I don't think Japan has ever created good coachwork.
Hello! Oh, glad you were not hurt in that accident! A true testament to how great the MCI buses were! Yeah, never seen an attractive bus coming out of Japan! Thank you for watching!!
@@JeffreyOrnstein This channel is going to cover a lot of ground before it runs out of steam. I'm sitting behind the driver.
Never really understood the reason for the slanted drivers windscreen.
Hello! It was mainly to avoid reflections! Thank you for watching!!!
You can trace the raked windscreen back to Birmingham Corporation buses of the 1930s, which retained it right through to the 1950s. Many coachbuilders used it in a less extreme form on early Atlanteans, Wulfrunians and full-fronted saloons, Midland Red and BET Federation bodies also made widespread use of it until the advent of convex curved screens. If you look at pictures of Hants & Dorset Ks and Lodekkas, you can see that they usually fitted a metal sunshade above the windscreen to achieve the same effect.
i remember the one MTT/transperth had,pretty sure it had the L10 cummins
Leyland engine.
That MTT Lynx was quite unique! Thank you for watching!!!
@@jamesfrench7299 cummins like the daimler demonstrator they had,it wasnt red either
@@andrewsmart2949 it must have been another one.
Funny that's a transperth bus at 1:57 MTT they mainly had mercedes O305
LOL, they did have one Lynx! Thank you for watching!!!
I do like the round wheel arches better.
I think I like them better, too! Thanks very much for watching!!
Can't say the front of the MK II is particularly attractive, it looks like the Quest 80 designer had a hand in it and not in a good way.
Yes, if the Lynx had a flat windscreen, it would have looked more like a Quest 80 B type! Thank you for watching!!
you left out the rare willowbrook bodied lynx's
Oh, I'm so so sorry about that. But thanks for watching anyway!
I had never seen a lynx mk2 till now , the front end on the mk2 doesnt look good.
I went to school in leyland lynx's, if a double deck MCW didnt turn up .
Sometimes on a leyland fleetline as wmt refurbished a few of them in the early 90s.
I used to spend my time waiting for the bus car and bus watching lol.
I think they are quite attractive myself. Wish some recieved Leyland engines.
Oh yes, the design of the front of the Mk2 sure is strange!! Thank you for watching!!!
@@JeffreyOrnstein I had a London United mark 1 Corgi model and a Stagecoach Mark 2. I swapped away the London one and kept the Stagecoach one. I really liked it.
All designers are influenced by all other designers.
LOL, that's right!! Thank you for watching!!!
You know what?
i kinda strangely prefer the silly little protruding face of MK II over the flatness of MKI.... conssidering i am big fan of most boxy buses my nation ever had i find that silly.
But i wont like that oddity speaks to me in some wierd way. (also yes the 1' 998 F/I/A/T Multipla gen 1 is better than its MK II precisely because it looks unique and mad... thats the kind of stylistic preferences my brain has - i will always favour interesting crazy but little bit less conviniet over more streamlined and completly bloodless and indistinguushable from everything else well anything from vehicles to personal electronics to clothes).
Fifteeen years?
i feel like most busses get refurbished after like decade or so rather than replaced Linx must have been (oh god like ATARI Lynx) - too expenssive to run or something for it to not get that type of treatement.
Whoa hold on am i missing something? was this not meant to be struggling bus? 1'000+ feels like rather decent production to me.
Coincidences DO happen and repeatidly throught the history there were cases of simultanious discovery of or preference for specific things. often due to similar level of technological developement crossed with simillar requirements. or USamericans could've just stolen the plans i mean that would not be the first time they did something like that... or last time. Nor would they be only ones.
FASCINATING insight as always good video and did leave me curious to learn more .)
and i am very much light railway (aka tram) fan so that is as much fanfare as you get from me for busses .)
Hello! Thanks for your detailed insight into these buses!! Thank you for watching!
Why was there no mention of the lynx's that operated in London
Sorry about that. Thank you for watching!!!
The Lynx was one of the worst buses ever to wear a Leyland badge, I had the misfortune to travel on many of them in the 1980's & 90's, in their later years their poor suspension really showed, added to that was poor sound insulation and rattling windows that made these bucket of bolts terrible buses to travel on, it got to the point where if I saw a Lynx approaching my stop I'd let it pass and catch the next bus. Have a look for the Willowbrook Warrior bodied Leyland Leoopard, I've alway thought the Lynx was almost copied from that.
Oh my gosh!! Didn't know the Lynx was that bad! Will look at the Warrior - now that you mention it, I think I did see that, but forgot to add it to the video! Thank you for watching!!
Can vouch for the rattling on the one I got to ride in Sydney (one of the aformentioned demonstrators that went to South Trans). I was disappointed.
Actually the Willowbrook Warrior came after, and copied, the Lynx, not the other way round.
@@basilhancock6754 I have done some research on this, the Willowbrook Warrior and the Leyland Lynx both came onto the market in the same year, 1986, which surprised me, I thought the Warrior was a late 70's design, but you live and learn! The Warrior was a poor selling bus from 1986 to 1992, the Lynx was far more popular from 1986 to 1993, given they both had to be developed, it's hard to say who copied who, personally, I thought they were great looking buses, I neaver travelled on a Worrior, but my experience of the Lynx wasn't good.
Go-Ahead butchered the fronts of their Lynx's with that awful grill and smaller nearside windscreen
Ps the name Lynx was a reused name for Leyland, it was last used as a wagon/truck, a 4 wheeled 10 tonner with an updated Ergo cab design
Hello! Very interesting info! Thanks very much for watching!!
They were both appalling buses.
LOL! Thanks for your assessment!! Thank you for watching!!!
What a load of nonsense... So many inaccuracies, the comparison with the US bus is ridiculous and pure coincidence...
LOL, out of nearly 5,000 viewers, you are the only one that thinks this. But hey, thanks for watching!
Comment from Basil Hancock. Sorry to ruin your comment, but as the person who designed the Lynx body, we looked at a number of recessed windscreens, including the Grumman Flxible 870. It was used to demonstrate to Leyland management that overseas operators did use recessed sloping windscreens (as did the Gillig Phantom) , and that it was accepted practice in some modern designs. However, the other features (bonded glazing, body shape, opening windows, etc) were not influenced by the 870. The biggest influences on the windscreen design were actually the Midland Red BMMO S21/S22/S23 family and London Transport's modernised RF Green Line coaches. We constructed a test rig with flat windscreens which could change angles in both the vertical and horizontal panes until we got what we considered to be the optimum angle. The cutaway in the offside front pillar was one result, as to have used as wide a pillar as on
the nearside would have obstructed vision too much. Note that the 870 windscreen was not flat as it curved around at its outer edge, while the modernised RF windscreen had a vertical curve. The Lynx windscreens were totally flat. The only curved glass on the bus was the front destination glass, and that was actually a flat glass panel pulled into a slight curve when being bonded in place, which is why some modifications with rubber mounted destination panels never looked right.