See what it takes to build a new hydrogen fuelling station
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- Опубліковано 16 бер 2015
- How might the transport fuel mix look 20 years from now? Will liquid fuels be in decline? And how will the world reduce CO2 from vehicles?
In recent years, Shell has taken steps towards hydrogen, specifically, supplying hydrogen that can be converted to power electric motors.
A milestone was passed in Germany this week with the launch of a hydrogen fuelling station. The opening this week of Shell’s newest hydrogen fuelling station in Hamburg Schnackenburgallee is the latest milestone in a collaborative commitment to seeking solutions to delivering greenhouse gas reductions in road transport.
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We just need more than just one station
Just need to speed up building more stations.
We already have the infrastructure, it's called gas stations. We need more refineries and green energy. I like nuclear power for this. And this US can power it's self with all the oil,coal and nat gas. I see a future of charging station and hydrogen reffing station in one.
Hydrogen has been so successful that Shell permanently closed almost all of their Hydrogen refueling stations in California yesterday.
i was wondering what is the needed power for production?
It takes 39.4 kWh to produce 1 Kg of Hydrogen with 100% efficient electrolysis. A more realistic number is 48 kWh per Kg. It can take as much as 12 kWh to compress and store 1 Kg of Hydrogen for transport to the refueling station. A Toyota Mirai goes about 60 miles on 1 Kg of Hydrogen while the equivalent Tesla Model 3 goes 250+ miles on the same 60 kWh of energy.
Im looking forward to start the hydrogen filling station in Mombasa Kenya
nice project,
Beautiful
Können Sie bitte auch deutsche Untertitel einsetzen.Danke!
Hey l black
man who
The new year 3
I would live a hydrogen car but there are no stations. If there was more it would be the perfect solution.
You can make it yourself, just loook and learn from INPLIX .
Shell phillipines refinery must convert to hydrogen plant and hyrogen fuel depot.🙂
good
Thank you from 'H2 Innovation Lab' H2IL - innovative technology for a green sustainable hydrogen future.
How's it going eight years later?
Good. But Americans would probably shoot at those tanks.
I want a Hydrogen car
Toyota already tried that on their tested with a 50 cal. ua-cam.com/video/jVeagFmmwA0/v-deo.html
Yes your ancestors taught you well.
I'm invested in a company that has made a hydrogen refueling station that is portable and can fit in the consumers garage. And the hydrogen can be produced from Solar and wind!!!
What company is that please?
What is H35 vs. H70? Whats the other stuff to make 100%? Is this like E10 ethanol?
See koi
I think that what they meant by "50% from renewables" means that it's impossible in such setup (where you're not using your own source of energy like PV) to guarantee where's your energy coming from when you're simply sucking it from the grid that's powered by all kinds of powers sources.
It’s the pressure at which the hydrogen pumps out you can put 35 on 70 car but it will only fill the tank up halfway, you can’t put 70 on a 35 from my understanding of another video!
Neat stuff! I hope everybody drives a Tesla / their EV tech becomes open source by 20 years from now though.
They are already open source. Tesla gives away all patents.
@@Capeau I didn't think Teslas were Hydrogen, my comment even said "Their EV tech" (EV = Electric Vehicle).
Yes, current battery tech is garbage lol.
Also, there's a good reason Europe is the first to really start the move away from oil dependency; www.worldometers.info/oil/oil-reserves-by-country/
@@XFourty7 Uh... Hydrogen cards are also EV's...
EU countries not being dependant on oil countries is a big plus, yes.
Also, the second country on that list, Saudi Arabia, probably the most important oil country... They are backing and investing in hydrogen heavily...
Do your own research instead of being a parrot.
@@Capeau They are "FCEV" (Fuel Cell...)
@@Capeau The fact that Europe is not self reliant / buys their oil is kind of the point lmfao...
Hydrogen cars are electric vehicles. Teslas are not hydrogen / fuel cell electric vehicles which is what you were saying I thought lol.
"most important oil country" is only a thing when you live in a country that isn't self reliant. I live in Canada, at our current consumption levels we have almost 200 years left... Not everybody needs the Saudis. Not saying it would be a good thing if we stay on oil until it's gone lmfao...
you can learn from inplix scripts how to make it yourself.
Oil company strategy appears to be: enter the renewable space (solar, hydrogen etc) to get rid of the competitors through pricing, buying up talent & controlling the narrative and then just shut it down & say it's not feasible - other players then reluctant to enter the industry, banks less likely lend money, less investors to bankroll such projects.
Can we store solar energy into big water tanks on top of all high rise buildings first?!!
How are you storing this solar energy?
I can't see Battery EVs being preferred over a 5 minute refill at a hydrogen station! Good old Elon says Fuels cells are stupid, but I think a car which needs to stop for half an hour or worse just to get going again is nothing short of bloody madness. Poor Elon all his eggs in one basket!
elon musk should have invested in hydrogen too. i think he is going to lose this war to hydrogen.
electric battery buyers only looking at today stock price and today car. People don't want to think what happen tomorrow, can always borrow more money. We are a debt generation.
@@lucafuoco1179 do some more research.
@@MrLaftis without debt, the whole worldwide economy would collapse. As it is about to.
this is what I am guessing as example between battery and fuel cell: battery now cost at $1 and will go up to $10 super fast(we will run out of materials, because of other things using the same material as the battery. We will reach a point where just throw away a cell phone, a car may be cheaper than replace the battery). With fuel cell/hydrogen now cost $10 will go down to $1(as technology emerge more ways to make hydrogen cheaper from things). We may be able to 3-d print both electric and fuel cell cars at super cheap price, but we can't 3-d print the materials for the battery nor fuel cell.
500 thousand hydrogen stations
six voiced
sixth voiced
Fun facts about Hydrogen
-It takes 3x more electricty to fuel a Hydrogen vehicle than a battery vehicle per mile
-Hydrogen is 5x more expensive than electricity for a battery vehicle, it costs more than taxed petrol
-Battery vehicles are charged at home and can efficiently absorb the excess renewables, without throwing away 2/3s or the energy. They can also feed back into the grid as needed. This characteristic get even better as more charge points appear whereever you park.
-an example of H2 inefficiency is that a 150kW fuel cell need a 20kW air pump (bascially an electric turbo), this is 13% of the end energy available for the traction motor. Further more compressing Hydrogen to 880bar requires at least 15% of the energy. The best theoretical efficiency of H2 is 70% assuming the fuel cell and electolyser waste heat can be reused usefully (typically 30-40% overall now). A Tesla Powerwall can store electricity at an efficiency of 92.5%.
-Fuel cells need 'started' by heating to 50C. Fuel cell cars need batteries for this and to recover energy during braking and to drive the car while its heating up.
-Battery charge points cost about £1500, a small Hydrogen fueling station for 1 or 2 vehicles costs about £2M.
-One by one all H2 vehicle producers are announcing moving away from H2 ro Batteries
-Japan gov't is staying with H2 at the moment because they claim limited natural resources to generate renewables and Australia has offer to supply them Hydrogen generated from coal.
-No material can store Hydrogen indefinately, when reviewed on Top gear the fantastic Toyota Mirai was quoted as the tank bening empty after 2 weeks.
-Hydrogen tanks in the Mirai must be inspected every 5000 miles and are not guaranteed against chemical damage from normal road or atmostphere conditions (eg slighly acidic rain or salt)
-2020 has seen battery vehicles at the top of the sale charts, with commercial orders for BEV vans of 100,000 and 10,000 for Amazon and UPS. Meanwhile orders for H2 vehicles are 1,2, 10, 20 max.
On the other hand you can fill up in a few minutes if you can find a fueling station.. yey!
I'm not disagreeing with you - I'd just like to add few of my thoughts:
"Battery charge points cost about £1500, a small Hydrogen fueling station for 1 or 2 vehicles costs about £2M." - sure, but charge point is occupied by 1 car for 3 hours while fueling stations is occupied by 2 cars for 5 minutes. It makes the fueling stations 72 times time-efficient. According to this logic you'd need 72 charge points to substitute a fueling station with 2 pistols. Now scale it through the amounf of pistols on a regular gas station in a city where you have around 16 pistols (I mean 16 fueling spots), you'd need 72 * 8 = 576 charging points to substitute such H2 fueling station (and few times more to substitute regular PETROL station as refueling a regular car takes maybe 1.5 minutes). 576 charging points would make 16 cars leave the station per 5 minutes, just like when you'd use 16 H2 fueling pistols. People in big cities can't use their own plugs to charge their electric vehicles becaue they're living in flats. Also 2-3h of charging is a big nope, it's impossible to travel anywhere else than to work with such car which makes it good for cities but not for anything else. I'm not saying that electric vehicles are bad or that H2 is the solution but I'm deeply convinced that the future lays in some sort of gas/liquid fuel, produced with the use of electricity from renewables.
@@Michal235 charge points are cheap enough they will be at every parking position eventually, initially on request.
Then you need to understand than people will charge where they park, they don't usually need to visit a charge point especially for charging unless on a long trip, soon that won't be necessary, except for inefficient travel like towing.
You miss the key point that liquid/gas only really works using carbon, then it stores huge amount of energy, but is also grossly inefficient. Battery are worth a culture change, we need so much less energy. Just pumping air into a combustion engine or fuel cell takes a large portion of the energy, they can never match batteries.
Agreed 2-3hr charging is not acceptable, mostly the aim is 10-30minutes. With 250kw charger you can charge 150miles in 10mins.
Also a key point about Hydrogen fueling is that a £2M fuel station can only service about 20 cars a day, less than 1 per hour. Its great having a 5 min fuel up, provided noone has visited the pump in the last hour. Nevermind the slow transfer rate for an underpressurised tank. Much more expensive stations with bigger storage are needed for a normal servicing rate.
Fun facts: That electricity needed to create hydrogen is basically free from renewable, so efficiency is no concern. The infrastructures needed are built for 50 years or so.
The technology you are refering to is a few years old. And the developpement cycle of hydrogen solution is where BEV where 10 years ago.
All hydrogen vehicules are hybrids containing a battery just as in BEV, but smaller, so less carbon carbonprint.
Hydrogen production-creation projets are comming up every week, even in Saudi arabia. Refuelling station openening every day somewhere in the world.
@@ChristianRichardDritzz firstly I didn't mention infrastructure, but there is no nationwide hydrogen pipeline. Compressed hydrogen is so inefficient to transport the hydrogen industry tries to come up with things like ammonia to improve it. You can't use the heating network for 10,000psi hydrogen.
I also didn't refer to any technology, Hydrogen efficency is held by physics, not technology.
The efficiency does matter because we have a mixed supply of electricity, adding a big new demand has to come from fossil fuels and means it will take 3x times longer to decarbonise. If you can do your own renewables good luck with planning and costs, but it would be a waste of all those renewables, when they could be decarbonising the grid.
@@Capeau How do you 'know' stuff, does it just magically appear in your head? The important bit is where do you get the information, in my case it is peer reviewed scientific reports. Of course if you have some new information on Hydrogen I'm sure the investment community would love to know and will wonder why you have kept this secret. Otherwise since you do not offer any new figures on efficiency I will assume that you are just emitting hot air due to inefficiency LOL. I have no doubt there are small improvements, but the fact is that batteries move faster because there are more options, and started off more efficient than Hydrogens theorectical limit. So Hydrogen will never be as efficient as batteries.
As for getting your energy from renewables, I have yet to see ANY hydrogen project fully powered from renewables. The renewables argument seems to be used to get the project through, but the reality is that it is hard to build enough renewables for existing uses, nevermind decreasing efficiency uses like Hydrogen. In reality 'some' renewables are built but most power comes from fossil, or indeed Hydrogen comes from Fossil. Despite millions of Euros from the EU to change the existing Hydrogen production to electrolysis it is still predominantly made from fossil fuels and emitting CO2 in the process, because it is cheaper.
There are some Europeans move into Hydrogen, but I am fairly sure these will not prevail. The main development in Hydrogen in the EU is to change it from fossil production to electrolysis. There are no EU funded Hydrogen transport projects I can find, there are some local authority projects in Europe, as these people tend to use less 3rd party experts than larger gov't, and are thus more easily fooled into Hydrogen "investment".
Charging speed - If you are charging at 1000miles per hour, you normally don't need to wait an hour.
You have to be an fairly poorly educated to compare Hydrogen fuel with batteries. Batteries are not fuel. If you want to compare a complete car, we can see for example that the Toyota Mirai weighs more than an equivalent Tesla. Hydrogen Tanks are rather exotic and heavy, the systems are more complicated with more parts, bigger cooling/heating, pumping, etc.
While there is alot of data to show how well batteries wear out, maybe after about 600,000 for high density battery Teslas for example or 1m miles for the lower density LFP batteries, we don't actually know how long a fuel cell will last because noone can put many miles on these due to lacking fueling infrastructure. Also the fact it is hugely expensive to fuel a Hydrogen Vehicle. It may well last more than 1 or 2 million miles, but its unlikely the rest of the car will last that long.
"Not 100% green", this is a claim only made the oil industry. They made an impossible-to-meet definition, so they can say it doesn't meet it. Nothing can meet this definition if you are going to include historical emissions. Sensible people make defintions of improvement. Batteries are 'greener' than fossil fuels and Hydrogen.
"90% of electricity used to charge is from non-green sources" well that is an interesting claim and I doubt its true in any part of the world today, even the high CO2 emitting US. You claim that Hydrogen, with 3x the energy per mile, runs of only renewable energy. LOL