I feel like this is a good way to sum up like most of the followers of a Betrayer God. Because even the ones that "care" about their followers don't tend to have healthy relationships with them
But she *did* force a rule change - people aren't wrong. Chromatic Orb is a *single target spell.* There is, in the rules, nothing that ever mentions thunder damage having natural aoe or anything like that. It should RAW not hit anyone except the target. It is *fine* to change these rules, but it is not fine to do it randomly in the middle of a player's turn without telling them before they cast the spell that it will do friendly fire. Then, when confronted about her weird rule changes, she gets immediately defensive and bitchy. There is also no reason that the death save Robbie rolled for Cyrus had to be at *disadvantage.* Nothing happened that should've given Cyrus disadvantage on all saving throws.
@@TheDangerNoodle I completely agree agree with you, this is basically railroading the player/campaign towards something that could have been avoided, but yet decided not to. She likes to force a lot of stuff on her players just cause she feels like it. Sure you can change a rule here and there as long as the players are ok with it as well, but in order to play in a sandbox you need the box at least...
She hasn’t been quiet about her goal in all this, which was a TPK. It’s blatantly obvious that this part of the session was an attempt to further her narrative, at the cost of making a black and white spell suddenly grey area, mid-player turn. She didn’t give Robbie the option to do a different spell after suddenly changing its description, either, which solidifies her goal was just to get more party damage. You can defend Aabria without blatantly lying about what she did here.
@@ashleynichole8687 thats my biggest issue with this. How blatantly open she was before and after the session rambling about how she wanted to kill some PCs. Feels like someone was salty all she got was Dorian’s brother. Even then, we know Aabriya isnt well acquainted with the 5e rules. Not someone I’d want to dm for me. The rules are made to keep things FAIR, while being bendable to accommodate the mass variation from table to table on whats fun for them. Meanwhile, she’s DMing on the BIGGEST and most SUCCESSFUL channel in not just tabletop history but *all of Twitch,* and she’s asking Matt how Death Saves work (and STILL doing it wrong). Someone said she thinks she got her ruling from Baldur’s Gate 3, where Chromatic Orb does AOE damage. But in BG3, thunder damage is the only one that DOESNT have AOE damage. So even if she got it from Baldur’s Gate, she still got it *wrong.*
I guess I don’t completely understand what was wrong here. Yes, I agree that Chromatic Orb is a “single target damage dealing spell best used from long range” according to D&D Beyond in 2019. I haven’t read the new 2024 PHB yet so I’m assuming there might be a change to the spell? But springing it on a player AFTER they have already rolled to hit, rolled damage, chosen a target seems forced and unnecessary to me. I really liked Cyrus, I thought he was pretty attractive and pretty damn hot. I don’t understand why there was disadvantage on the death save though. Was it because of the pincers in his body? Were they poisoned or something? That is what confuses me. But at the end of the day, this is a game. THEIR game. Sure, there might have been some rules snafus or mistakes and stuff we the audience don’t like but that is not our place to play. We get to enjoy these professional nerds playing THEIR favorite game at THEIR table. I’ve only been playing for less than 5 years so there are still a lot of things I am learning, confused about, questioning, interested in why something is the way it is. Everyone has their own different opinions about many things, different ways of doing something, and while it may anger or frustrate others, at the end, it is THEIR GAME AND THEIR TABLE. You don’t have to watch them if you don’t want to see how they do certain things. I for one will continue to enjoy the show, the people, the characters, even if I don’t know what’s going on at any given moment.
I think Matt would have said something if the disadvantage wasn't "fair" by the rules. I think it's either advantage on the attack while a player is prone/down or disadvatnage if they're already in death saves.
"You picked a thing that kind of implies an AoE" Except it doesn't though, it very specifically says one target. it being 'hard for only one person to hear thunder damage' is kind of a moot point against... idk, the magic world in which one lives in? Kinda hard for people to be resurrected as well, but that sorta thing happens in DnD games... I like Aabriya, I'm usually against the hate. And personally, no thing should be levied against her for what is a tabletop game. But as a fellow DM, regarding her DM style, this was a mistake through and through. We as DM's don't (Or at least, shouldn't) get to pick when and where the rules should apply when they are very clearly written. Twist them, sure, but turning a single target spell into an AoE because you're feeling saucy might feel great to YOU in the moment. But you've unfortunately gone from a friendly tabletop game to a company, that produces a product for consumption; as a consumer, that felt bad. As a DM, that felt cheap. And as a fan of the show, this felt bad; but not in the emotional, gut-punch way that it should have. It felt like a sloppy, forced narrative. Made worse by the fact that i KNOW Aabriyah is a great, accomplished DM; I've seen it, I've witnessed it. This wasn't it.
Oh this absolutely. I adore her style usually! It’s creative and innovative and really lets players’ cool decisions shine. But 5e Has some Rules Which Are Rules, black and white and clear cut, and to do it in the middle of a player’s turn in a medium where takebacksies would also translate poorly is just a bit… I dunno, “unearned” isn’t the word I’m going for, but it’s the only one my brain is producing right now. I’m absolutely going to keep watching and loving the shows she runs, and if this works for her table and the players there then that’s great, but this will just be a clip I skip from now on.
It might have been a story choice to further stack the scales in the fight against prodothos, sending bells hells another pc who is not so sure the gods should be saved. I also think it might have been more “you go to attack a creature that is directly over someone and leaned over them” so she might have been trying to create a consequence.
@@niffy1200 Oh, it was definitely a narrative device to further the stakes against the coming threat (and remove the reason for Dorian's absence from Bell's Hell's), but you can get from A to B without going about it the way they did. Perhaps Dorian attempting to save his brother goads the attackers on further, seeing that desperation and wishing to break their will to fight. Maybe it emboldens Cyrus to fight harder as to not be a burden, which leads to his death. There are many different avenues to take to get there; Aabriyah chose the one that breaks a clear-as-day written spell which targets one creature in order to make Dorian partially responsible for his brother's death. I understand that a creature being over someone would *normally* imply the danger of splash damage in a real-world scenario. This is Dungeons and Dragons. If we are going to start worrying about physics now, then let's start with Bag's of Holding and Create or Destroy Water, since those shatter the laws of real world physics using the boundless power of Magic. If a first-level spell can nullify a Universal truth, then it's safe to assume it should be able to deal targeted damage to an individual without risk to another.
When you’re in an abusive relationship with your god
I feel like this is a good way to sum up like most of the followers of a Betrayer God. Because even the ones that "care" about their followers don't tend to have healthy relationships with them
I love that Crown Keepers are just the SASSIEST table
The way people have made it sound they make it do that Aabria forced a rule change. But she posed the question, then left it up to the dice.
Plus like half this table are theater kids so you know they were eating this up!
But she *did* force a rule change - people aren't wrong.
Chromatic Orb is a *single target spell.*
There is, in the rules, nothing that ever mentions thunder damage having natural aoe or anything like that. It should RAW not hit anyone except the target.
It is *fine* to change these rules, but it is not fine to do it randomly in the middle of a player's turn without telling them before they cast the spell that it will do friendly fire. Then, when confronted about her weird rule changes, she gets immediately defensive and bitchy.
There is also no reason that the death save Robbie rolled for Cyrus had to be at *disadvantage.* Nothing happened that should've given Cyrus disadvantage on all saving throws.
@@TheDangerNoodle I completely agree agree with you, this is basically railroading the player/campaign towards something that could have been avoided, but yet decided not to. She likes to force a lot of stuff on her players just cause she feels like it. Sure you can change a rule here and there as long as the players are ok with it as well, but in order to play in a sandbox you need the box at least...
She hasn’t been quiet about her goal in all this, which was a TPK. It’s blatantly obvious that this part of the session was an attempt to further her narrative, at the cost of making a black and white spell suddenly grey area, mid-player turn. She didn’t give Robbie the option to do a different spell after suddenly changing its description, either, which solidifies her goal was just to get more party damage. You can defend Aabria without blatantly lying about what she did here.
@@ashleynichole8687 thats my biggest issue with this. How blatantly open she was before and after the session rambling about how she wanted to kill some PCs. Feels like someone was salty all she got was Dorian’s brother.
Even then, we know Aabriya isnt well acquainted with the 5e rules. Not someone I’d want to dm for me. The rules are made to keep things FAIR, while being bendable to accommodate the mass variation from table to table on whats fun for them. Meanwhile, she’s DMing on the BIGGEST and most SUCCESSFUL channel in not just tabletop history but *all of Twitch,* and she’s asking Matt how Death Saves work (and STILL doing it wrong).
Someone said she thinks she got her ruling from Baldur’s Gate 3, where Chromatic Orb does AOE damage. But in BG3, thunder damage is the only one that DOESNT have AOE damage. So even if she got it from Baldur’s Gate, she still got it *wrong.*
I guess I don’t completely understand what was wrong here. Yes, I agree that Chromatic Orb is a “single target damage dealing spell best used from long range” according to D&D Beyond in 2019. I haven’t read the new 2024 PHB yet so I’m assuming there might be a change to the spell? But springing it on a player AFTER they have already rolled to hit, rolled damage, chosen a target seems forced and unnecessary to me. I really liked Cyrus, I thought he was pretty attractive and pretty damn hot. I don’t understand why there was disadvantage on the death save though. Was it because of the pincers in his body? Were they poisoned or something? That is what confuses me.
But at the end of the day, this is a game. THEIR game. Sure, there might have been some rules snafus or mistakes and stuff we the audience don’t like but that is not our place to play. We get to enjoy these professional nerds playing THEIR favorite game at THEIR table. I’ve only been playing for less than 5 years so there are still a lot of things I am learning, confused about, questioning, interested in why something is the way it is. Everyone has their own different opinions about many things, different ways of doing something, and while it may anger or frustrate others, at the end, it is THEIR GAME AND THEIR TABLE. You don’t have to watch them if you don’t want to see how they do certain things. I for one will continue to enjoy the show, the people, the characters, even if I don’t know what’s going on at any given moment.
I think Matt would have said something if the disadvantage wasn't "fair" by the rules. I think it's either advantage on the attack while a player is prone/down or disadvatnage if they're already in death saves.
Imagine Changing a spell mid cast just to f*ck over players.
"You picked a thing that kind of implies an AoE"
Except it doesn't though, it very specifically says one target. it being 'hard for only one person to hear thunder damage' is kind of a moot point against... idk, the magic world in which one lives in? Kinda hard for people to be resurrected as well, but that sorta thing happens in DnD games...
I like Aabriya, I'm usually against the hate. And personally, no thing should be levied against her for what is a tabletop game. But as a fellow DM, regarding her DM style, this was a mistake through and through. We as DM's don't (Or at least, shouldn't) get to pick when and where the rules should apply when they are very clearly written. Twist them, sure, but turning a single target spell into an AoE because you're feeling saucy might feel great to YOU in the moment. But you've unfortunately gone from a friendly tabletop game to a company, that produces a product for consumption; as a consumer, that felt bad. As a DM, that felt cheap. And as a fan of the show, this felt bad; but not in the emotional, gut-punch way that it should have. It felt like a sloppy, forced narrative. Made worse by the fact that i KNOW Aabriyah is a great, accomplished DM; I've seen it, I've witnessed it. This wasn't it.
Oh this absolutely. I adore her style usually! It’s creative and innovative and really lets players’ cool decisions shine. But 5e Has some Rules Which Are Rules, black and white and clear cut, and to do it in the middle of a player’s turn in a medium where takebacksies would also translate poorly is just a bit… I dunno, “unearned” isn’t the word I’m going for, but it’s the only one my brain is producing right now.
I’m absolutely going to keep watching and loving the shows she runs, and if this works for her table and the players there then that’s great, but this will just be a clip I skip from now on.
It might have been a story choice to further stack the scales in the fight against prodothos, sending bells hells another pc who is not so sure the gods should be saved. I also think it might have been more “you go to attack a creature that is directly over someone and leaned over them” so she might have been trying to create a consequence.
@@niffy1200 Oh, it was definitely a narrative device to further the stakes against the coming threat (and remove the reason for Dorian's absence from Bell's Hell's), but you can get from A to B without going about it the way they did.
Perhaps Dorian attempting to save his brother goads the attackers on further, seeing that desperation and wishing to break their will to fight. Maybe it emboldens Cyrus to fight harder as to not be a burden, which leads to his death. There are many different avenues to take to get there; Aabriyah chose the one that breaks a clear-as-day written spell which targets one creature in order to make Dorian partially responsible for his brother's death.
I understand that a creature being over someone would *normally* imply the danger of splash damage in a real-world scenario. This is Dungeons and Dragons. If we are going to start worrying about physics now, then let's start with Bag's of Holding and Create or Destroy Water, since those shatter the laws of real world physics using the boundless power of Magic. If a first-level spell can nullify a Universal truth, then it's safe to assume it should be able to deal targeted damage to an individual without risk to another.
Hey! Thanks for all the highlights you’ve been doing. 🫶🏽
No problem at all!