WW2 British Rifle Section 1940 v 1945
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- Опубліковано 26 лют 2022
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Learn about the British Rifle Section during WW2, along with the weaponry they used and follow the changes made between 1940 and 1945.
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Generally good video, chaps! Couple of nerd points though:
- there weren't Lanchesters in 1940, the first contract was June 13, 1941. There's nothing wrong with it as such that can't also be said of the Thompson (it's really heavy...), other than that it suffers the same magazine issues as the STEN.
- Thompson 1928, not M28. "Drum box magazine". It's either a drum, or a box, they're two different types of magazine. "Stick" is simply a skinny "box".
- The front sight of a No.4 isn't an aperture, it's a blade.
- STEN mag is 32, I'm recalling a traning pam that says to download them to 28 (might be a post-war one). Side mounting isn't at all unusual in the period.
Hey, I know you! Honestly I find it hilarious when regular British people talk about guns because it's very clear the vast majority of them have no idea what they are talking about. Yes, yes I know a couple of Brits own rifles and nerd out like us
As a Canadian infantry reservist in the early 80's we were using pretty the same formation as Commonwealth troops in 1945. The big difference being the FAL in place of the Lee Enfield and two C2 heavy barrel fully auto FALs in the gun group instead of one Bren.
‘It’s only in the 1980 that …’ 9:09 Interested in history but too young to remember the fal in Northern Ireland.
As a Territorial in the mid 1980's we were still using the Bren in it's 7.62 itineration the L4 LMG in combination with the SLR and GPMG in sustained fire. When more of the later became available the LMG was slowly phased out but still saw use during the Gulf War. I was very fond of it being lighter semi auto capable accurate and more manageable than the L7 GPMG which in turn was supplemented by the LSW when we adopted the SA80.
We (British regular) retained the Bren (as the L4 re-barrelled to 7.62mm NATO) and never had the full auto SLR. Fun fact: Canada was the first nation to introduce the "inch pattern" FAL as the C1 SLR in the 1950s.
@@2adamast Northern Ireland is irrelevant in this context. Over there we had a 16 man patrol that was split into 4 "bricks" which didn't change with the introduction of the L85. There was no use of sections or platoons in the traditional sense.
The Lanchester was not a bad SMG, it was heavy and expensive to make (rather like the US Thompson). The Royal Navy used the Lanchester for boarding and landing parties for most of the war.
Good effort- this deserves more views and likes!
Interesting format lads ! Keep up the good work, thumbs up !
Well done men! Very informative, and very well produced,Thank you.
The Lanchester machine gun was pretty good - a near copy of the German mp18/28 - used by the navy
Yes, the issues with the Lanchester were weight and cost, but it wasn't available in 1940 anyway (the video is misleading on this and several other points). Lanchester manufacture didn't begin until 1941 and was based on MP28s captured in France in 1940.
@@wbertie2604I was going to make the same point - the Lanchester was produced AFTER the Thomson. Partly because the Thompson was very expensive and the Lanchest was heavy the Sten was produced.
Lanchesters were given to the RN, as wieght wasn't so much of an issue, they were ideal for deck clearing and boarding parties.
@@davidgee1451 the Sten was pretty much a parallel development to Lanchester, although it was probably fairly obvious it was going to be expensive by the time they started in the Sten at the end of 1940.
Excellent video!
32 rounds in the Sten. Two stripper clips in the rifle. Two Bren magazines per rifleman in addition to 50 rounds. Lanchester not made until 1941. No. 4 not just a simplified SMLE but using a better sight system and a heavier barrel for improved accuracy.
The Sten magazine was 32 rounds but the usual practice was to load 30 to help prevent stoppages. Much the same as loading 28 into the 30 round magazine of the Bren
great video lads!👍keep up the good work, can’t wait for the festival!
Glad you enjoyed it and thanks for the kind words, looking forward to seeing you there!
Well done, gentlemen! As a Yabk miliyary historian with an interest in Commonwealth forces, I enjoyed the video and the re-enactors' work. Thanks to all. --Bob Bailey in Maine, USA
I enjoyed this video. Very informative. 😊
Very informative video! Greetings from Brazil
The Lanchester was a good SMG. It was well made but the issue I believe was it was heavy.
Very well made! The troop exercises clearing buildings was especially interesting.
Also completely wrong for Italy and the Med. Standard practice in Italy was to mousehole the building - smack a hole in a wall and throw a grenade through to clear the room; never entering via a door initially. If possible, work from the top of the building downwards, moving from building to building across the roofs where you could.
2nd New Zealand Div practice was a section of 8-10 with 2 Bren, 2 Sten, and rifles. PIATS were used for breaching walls more often than taking on armour. Everyone caqrries as many grenades as they can comfortably manage. Most rooms cleared initially by grenade, except basements where civilians are most likely to be unless on the frontline itself.
In the mid 1980s, i bought a brand new surplus, still packed in cosmoline, Lee Enfield .303, manufactured in Long Branch, Canada in 1953, for $99. USD and it’s a great rifle. I guess that they were made for the Korean "police action" but the armistice was signed in 1953. My only regret was not buying a half dozen of them, seeing what they go for today.
Hard to believe they only had 50 rounds per rifleman.
Not really. That was just for their personal use.
The main section weapon was the Bren and the section's job was to keep that in action, hence most members of the section carried ammunition for that instead of for themselves.
As the Bren and the rifles used the same ammunition, it was interchangeable if that became necessary.
Hey, you know, soldiers. They undoubtedly scrounged more. But isn't that one of the problems with battle rifles ? The weight of the full power cartridges starts adding up.
They had 50, plus 56 for the Bren as standard. More might be carried if required
That was pretty standard in WW2. The Germans had a Mauser loaded with 5 round charger clips. The German webbing had 6 pouches with 1 x 5 round chargers so 30 spare rounds. The US M1910 had 6 pouches with 1 x 8 round en bloc for the Garand in each so 48 rounds spare.
@@andrewcombe8907 the German pouches held up to two clips each. M1910 and M1928 had ten pockets. The USA squad wasn't built around an LMG doctrinally, though.
Superb lads!
Even thumbnail look nice! I cant wait
Love this! Nice to see the English soldier get a mention! Even better taught by Brummies💪
British
Excellent!
My favourite rifle was the No.4, although mine was a 7.62mm NATO conversion. Very comfortable to hold and fire and pretty good at a 1000 yards. There were probably a number of P14 rifles in home guard use during WW2.
Great video, chaps!
Very well explained and presented in a short and efficient way, no bla bla bla.
As austrian I would be interested where you guys (and dialect) come from?
Thanks for the kind words :) We are from England, specifically Oxfordshire & also Birmingham.
@@LivingHistoryUK Thanks a lot, I love your accent!
great vid! one thing i noticed was one of your guys was carrying an enfield sniper rifle for the 44-45 part, were they standard issue at section level or optional?
Not issued at section level
I've read some equipment reports from pre Dunkirk that said Thompsons were issued at a rate of x3 per battalion
Nice! Love the DAS smock replica and the T4 Sniper copy too!
The No.4 T is an original 🤯
@@LivingHistoryUK
WOW!!! My previous comment also auto corrected typically to the wrong thing....should have read SAS smock....(DAS!!??) How wonderful to own a T4 . I got to play with a lovely old 25pdr yesterday for Armistice Day, at the Kent Sharpshooters Yeomanry Museum at Hever Castle. That was fun! BANG!! Great little museum if you are passing.
@@lawrencemartin1113Cool, thanks for the tip - will mark it on the to visit list! 😊
Another nicely made film and a good intro to the rifle section's composition and its basic tactics. What is the story behind the camouflaged smock worn by one of the reenactors?
Thanks Mike, really appreciate the feedback and kind words the ‘Smock, Wind proof’ as it was known was a highly popular garment. There were matching trousers too.
I have a diagram, in a French WW2 "Battle of France" book, that lays out the 12 soldiers and their roles within a 1940 French infantry section. Two are Sappers, two are porters, two are LMG crew, one is the grenadier, six are the riflemen and one is the section leader. They were expected to defend a 100 metre length of trench, in defensive mode.
You guys are great, cant believe i've only stumbled across the video now. My Dad and I assembled all this kit during covid (5th Battalion Seaforth Highlanders, 152 Bde, 51st HD) but sadly being in the Highlands of Scotland its hard to meet and learn with like minded folks. Are you guys familiar with We Have Ways of Making you Talk and the Independent Company at all?
Thanks for the kind words. We do indeed know of WHW, we attend the festival as part of Les Parachutistes.
The bren,the enfield were excellent near the end of ww2 the sten was ok,dont forget we struggled in keeping up with industry,through bombing,lack of personell and raw goods...the bren was far better than the bar
the sten had teething issues but turned out to be pretty reliable by 1944 with new versions also being made
Bren, designed in Czechoslovakia and made under license.
Sten gun could have had a safety similar to the M3 grease gun, a dust cover with a flange to stop the bolt.
The Bren gun was redesigned on several points from the Czech Zb 26, but yes that's the origin of the weapon.
A lot of British equipment is commonly maligned, without good reason, largely propogated by videogames and because "haha shit British" makes a funny anecdote.
But the Bren was very effective and well liked
The Lanchester was very good, yes it was heavy (same weight as the Rifle) but it was well made, a proven design (MP18) and reliable The Rifle was no longer called the SMLE but the No1 MKIII or No1 MKIII*.
Super interesting. Now I want to see a similar video for so ww2 combatant nations.
The "D-Day Dodgers" in sunny Italy used the sten for house clearing. Cock it, throw it through a window, and after it stopped firing, go in, pick it up, reload and repeat.
For those new to the phrase, "D-Day Dodgers" was what some upper class twat (Lady Astor) called the Canadians, British, and Americans fighting in Italy. It inspired a parody, sung to the tune of Lily Marlene.
Look it up on YT if you want to hear it.
That's just a myth.
If dropped a Sten *could* fire off one round, but only one, it wouldn't run out the entire mag.
@@kirotheavenger60 I heard that as well. I think there might have been more than a few arguments over drinks in the legion over this.
When sung by the Ian Campbell Folk group,it was poignant to hear.
It isinteresting how little change there was. Basically smgs for squad leaders and the replacement of the 2" mortar with the PIAT.
The PIAT replaced the BOYS AT Rifle. 2” mortar remained a platoon asset throughout the war.
the tommy gun and its ammo was very heavy but it could stop anybody hence something else was needed
NICE MATE GOD BLESS
What's the intro music. Please reply.
Found the video to be fantastic but do not like the music at the beginning.
Twice it was shown and stated that the Lee Enfield was loaded with a five round clip. This was a mistake. The user would load it with TWO five round clips, which would store nine in the magazine and one up the spout. This gave it a great advantage over the German Mauser which could only hold five rounds.
They were some fine weapons on both sides. And One British reenactor had an M-1928 Thompson sub-machinegun with a 50 round drum magazine
Dude. It was loaded with a 5 round stripper clip.
The magazine held 10 rounds.
I cannot say if most British soldiers charged the Enfield with 1x 5 round clip, or used 2x 5 round clips, when in the heat of the moment.
But either way, you are fussing over the difference between the clips and the magazine.
@@woodsghost9088 The video does however give the impression that the rifle only held 5 rounds,rather than 10.
That is the point that he is trying to make.Remember,not everyone who watches has knowledge of this weapon. (Dude 😂)
@@stephencrowther524 that's not the message I got from the first post.
But you make an excellent and respectable point.
I would expect that they reload in the field one clip at the time. On numbers, I appreciate they didn’t claim the Bren shot 500 rounds per minute.
it looks like one of the soldiers has a rifle with a telescopic sight. was that common?
Loved this. Great help to me in my current writing. "Franzi the Hero - AN Ape in WW2"
Just curious what do the soldiers mean by "50 rounds of SAA"?
It stands for "Small Arms Ammunition", so .303 rounds.
Enjoyed this Programme very interesting and educational I collect WW1 +2 British Equipment and guns.
What's the song in the intro?
Really good to see rhe re enactment.
I'm not sure that the Lanchester was particularly unreliable. It was pretty much an Admiralty with a bit of the RAF Regiment thing anyway. But they kept it for at maybe 20 years after the end of the war so ...?
I am supporting this episode because I am a british Somaliland protectorate man that is why i supported by this episode and also my grandfather was a british protectorate soldier and also British Somaliland Protectorate Army was a part of Great Britain Army in a world war two 🇬🇧💚🤍♥️🇬🇧💚🤍♥️🇬🇧💚🤍♥️💚🤍🙏✅👍👍🙏✅🙏👍
First time seeing this really good channel . I heard recently that the sten was made in 9mm so it could use captured German ammunition . Not only that but it could take mags from the Mp40 . Is this true ?
No, it's not true. It uses 9mm as the Lanchester used 9mm as it was an MP-28 copy and a simpler and cheaper SMG was sought and so 9mm was retained. Although in theory German ammunition could be used, the loadings were different so it wouldn't necessarily be reliable with German ammunition.
The magazine design was that of the MP-28 which the MP-40 also used, so the magazine design had a common ancestor with that of the MP-40 only. I'm not sure they were compatible.
@@wbertie2604The original British loading of 9mm was identical to the German one and it will run through a Sten just fine. The later "Type Z" was a bit hotter but still nothing that presents a problem running it through a MP40 or STEN.
I have a indian enfield 1957 i love it buitiful maple stock
Just curius late in the war do they still carry 50 rounds. How long will the 50 rounds last in a fire fight?
John Wayne had one that could fire 1000 times with 50 rounds in a 500 round magazine. Love those ridiculous US war films.
Every video should only have intro music appropriate to the quality and coolness of the rest of the video😂
Liked the video, but don't assume your audience is familiar with acronyms, like SAA.
NICE
'SMLE though your heart is aching...'
Holding a thompson machine up near your nose while firing is likely to get it broken and 2 black eyed😂😂😂
Smle? 5 rounds?
Its a charger gents. Not a stripper clip.
It reminds me of the famous TWTWTW comedy sketch : I am middle class and I look up to him.....
Can't take it seriously now..
I'm laughing..
The soldier in the thumbnail is cockeyed. Holding the weapon right handed but looking through the sights with his left eye!!
The Lanchester was used mostly by the Royal Navy 🔥
Prone to jamming 😂😂😂 no it wasn’t 😂😂😂 I’ve used many Brens and I’ve never ever once had a problem so long as you maintain your mags properly 😂😂😂
Using blanks jams all the time live Rnds nope
There was nothing wrong with the Lanchester, apart from the cost. Argueably the build quality was too high and they took too long to manufacture.
I swear this was shot in the same place as horrible histories
In my opinion, and I am certainly no expert, the section shouldn't have changed. The gun group and rifle group are superior and the most flexible.
It was an unweildly and inflexible arrangement. It went the way of the Dodo quite simply because of the introduction of self loading rifles. This enabled the use of pairs fire and manouver. That two man fighting team being organic as its your battle partner. Everything goes to shit in the advance to contact and it always breaks down to pairs in the end. In the days of the gun group/rifle group you were still effectively using fire teams. The difference being it was an asymmetric split due to the greater fire power of the LMG over the No4.
ditto
5:05 Yeah Baby!
The Chicago Typewriter!
You forgot the Jungle Carbine. #5
That wasn't used in wwii outside of the 1st Airborne in Operation Doomsday which wasn't a combat operation
Drinks
Supplies!
@@LivingHistoryUK Pepsi mother fucking max
Stens were shithouse 😂😂😂
Aye but they were cheap as chips and made in the millions - good for close quarters, house clearance, etc.
Rapidly out gunned by the Germans infantry sections using more automatic weapons MP40s, eventually 2 x MG34s per section and/or eventually MP44 assault rifles
Wait till the yanks come with there m1 garands and send those fools back cross the Rhine, plus most of those squads besides stormtroopers would only have k98s for the riflemen and squad leaders would have mp40s this carried on till the end of ww2, and German squads would only carry 1 mg instead of your 2x.
most german squads by 1944 still had only 1 mg and the rest being mostly bolt action rifles. it was also pretty common for british troops to carry stens as they were so cheap or 2 or 3 brens being in an infantry squad.
2 MGs in a German section would be quite unusual (I've never heard of it). Relatively few Stg-44s were used, either isolated examples or in a relatively few divisions in quantity. By war's end many British sections had two Brens with that being the new desired standard
Someone gets their squad compositions from video/tabletop wargames
Those games operate very much on a zeitgeist of "German Good, British Bad" which just wasn't the reality
And you would be wrong Wehraboo.
How did these British gents even hold a gun without their fingers burning off and their government offing them?
I'm guessing that you are from USA(?) - the weapons shown would either be held by firearms licenced people or they'll be deactivated weapons (note no live firing or firing of blanks in the video).
Not much Diversity where is the black community
Must've been a nightmare for a British rifle section to face a German machine gun squad with MG34s.
MG42 was far more common than the 34. Besides which, the British had the ultimate SF support MG- the Vickers- water cooled. It will fire all day and there are recorded cases of Vickers being in constant action for over 24 hrs. Facing an MG42 and well trained German troops was a nightmare under any circumstances.
@@liverpoolscottish6430 Let's say a British squad encountered a German position, how would they go about attacking it in terms of tactics? How did the British counter the formidable MG42?
@@Bullet-Tooth-Tony- The MG42 was not a perfect wonder weapon (it easily overheated and ate ammo) and was fairly rare (they mostly used the MG34). The British had the Bren which was a great supporting attacking weapon, and that's how they could beat the Germans
@@JohnyG29 Of course, but im still wondering how it was dealt with, i have read stuff ranging from the British army using mortars to snipers in order to take out a German machine gun nest?
How many boxes of ammo can your average German mg team carry ? @wk2k11
Why don't you lads just join the army
The British are far better at banning guns than to design any good ones. They have no self loading guns in WW2 like the Garand, the Sten were junk, especially when you compare the American grease gun that was designed and made in the same era. The Bren was a CZ design, and it place the magazine right where you have to see to shoot. John Browning somehow found it possible to locate the magazine at the bottom for the BAR. The Tommy gun is expensive, but high quality, the drum do not jam that much but it made noise, and is devil slow to load. The gangsters prefer the drums, so did the Russians for their PPSH. The 45 ACP added one more type the logistics system had to handle. Even in WW2, British army are still issuing wheel guns to the officers. At least they are not so cheap as to make officers buy their own guns as they used to. Those that have to usually buy German guns, like the C96. The MG 42 were designed in the same era as the Sten, what a difference, in modified form, it is still around today. It overheat faster than the Vickers , but the barrel is very easy to change.
You know very little. The Lee Enfield was the best bolt action rifle of WW2 and with a 10 round magazine was far superior to the German Mauser. The Bren was the finest LMG of WW2, was accurate and far superior to the BAR. The British revolvers were reliable and had excellent stopping power. The Sten worked well and was cheap and easy to manufacture. The PIAT was an excellent anti armour weapon capable of stopping nearly all German tanks until the end of the war. The British 17pdr anti tank gun was the finest allied anti tank gun of WW2 and in 1944 was the only weapon able to take out a Tiger tank at combat ranges of 1,000 metres. The British were very well armed.
@@andrewcombe8907 I know little , but know just enough of the truth to be annoying. . Bolt actions were gradually being phased out in WW2 , sniper excepted and nowadays, wow, an 10 round magazine sounds scary, let see that Garand with 8 rounds again, and a 1911A1. with 7. I still see lots of Mauser actions, but except for the one Enfield I own, almost none in Canada or US and hard to find 303 ammo. Not a mark of a popular gun. American 3006, some guns based on Mauser action, I have my choice of various ammo. Before WW2 I remember Churchill and TE Lawrence had once had to buy their own Mauser Broomhandles, so why did they not picked a Webley , reliable and stopping power...your words. I still feel well armed today with a red 9 Broomhandle. The Sten were famous for low quality, a famous jam were during the assassination of Henridge.Better quality came after the war, called Sterling. The finest anti tank gun in WW2 was the German 88 mm. Not the 17 lb. The 17 pounder must be equal to the 75 mm and the 25 pounder the 105?? The Germans were the first to invent APC in the form of half tracks (SdKFZ 250,251) to follow and guard the rear of their tanks, just so the guy who wish to practice with his PIAT will not get his chance. New tanks were fast enough if there were no APC, the old British/Russian way of walking behind them will not work. The British army were often set in their ways and refused changes for the better.That might be the reason the Brown Bess been in service for so long and your troops been defeated by a rag tag bunch of militia in America. I hear troubles with the SA 80 as well. But then , most guns have some troubles, even Glocks and Colt.
The British were well armed, I agree, they had about 10X the arms against Rommel who were strangled for supplies and lost. They sacked 4 generals before until this pompous mouth piece Montgomery came along. With that much advantage against Rommel, myself, with no military experience in command would have won.
The British army nowadays, if you land in Europe, with about 82,000 persons, (1/10 combat troops) as One German officer said in WW1, they will just call the police and have all of you arrested. This time , no retreating with small boats. Instead, the small boats are taking armed invaders to you, an armed invasion which you did nothing. No they are not armed with AK 47s , they are armed with Islam software in their heads, lying dorminant, till activated one day. You will have a fight that make Tauton look like a joke. Tauton , the royals were forced against a river. As Enoch Powell predicted some gave the name River of Blood, maybe it will be the Thames , we will not be around to see it.
@@tonylam9548What are you on about?
The M16 wasn't perfect in Vietnam that also was constantly jamming
@@keithcrispin1368 All new machines have a certain among of bugs, more if complex. It took a few years to iron out the bugs for the M16, and even the 1911, became the 1911A1. Even the Germans had jamming with the MG 34 when first used.