I hope you become way more popular on UA-cam. A lot of people could use this information! Your content is well explained & easy to understand. The demonstrations are excellent! Thanks for what you do! I would love to support your work through UA-cam! 👍❤
Thanks Pam - sharing, liking, commenting on my videos helps me. And for those that would like to help me with my goal of reducing risk through education...there's my Patreon and what I believe in: www.patreon.com/L2SFBC l2sfbc.com/about/what-i-believe-in/
@@L2SFBC Have you done any UA-cam Shorts? I think some quick 1 min tutorials with your cute car & trailer treadmill could draw interest for more. Or bogging & winching ones self out of the mud would be wildly popular! Just a thought. 💥👍
In Uk electric trailer brakes are not legal, we have to have over run brakes. The only way to apply trailer brakes is to brake the car, like your Australian example. Accelerating does work, but then you are going faster if it starts again! Bigger accident!
Very well explained! I was about to give my son this lecture, now I just need to send him a link with a much clearer demonstration than I could have given him because of your model. Many thanks
I was taught many years ago when I was in the army that you should accelerate hard to get the sway under control. Not sure I would have the guts to do it though...
I have a Redarc Tow Pro Elite, but I seriously doubt I could get my hands on it in only 3 seconds with such violent swerving going on. I agree that it is better with the passenger having access, which I will do with my next vehicle purchase in a year or so. Until then, I'm relying on the tow vehicle being almost twice the weight of the trailer. Thanks for your efforts, I am at least aware of the seriousness of the issue, as is my wife now.
You can do it - you apply the trailer brakes nice and early, AS SOON AS YOU FEEL THE SWAY. Possibly even pre-emptively. Doesn't hurt. You don't even need to lift off the accelerator, just get that trailer speed to the same or close to the towcar speed. And yes, a really heavy towcar is a great thing!!!!
The sway starts slowly silly goose. U will be fine. Never rely on a passenger to save your life, you are the driver you are in control and responsible for being safe.
I’ve only had trailer sway once, and it almost sent me over a cliff - and I learned from it. I had packed a U-Haul 6x12 enclosed trailer “carefully” - paying quite a bit of attention to proper weight distribution - and it was very stable - I was doing up to 75 on the interstate without any sway or vibrations. I got off the interstate to go through a fast food drive-through for lunch. The drive-through had a 20-30 yard section that was at least a 45 degree slope. Well, starting and stoping multiple times on that slope to get to the pickup window, ended-up causing the entire load to shift backward a couple of feet, also caused a number of heavy box items to tumble over the top of everything to be against the back door. I got back on the interstate and as soon as I hit 45 MPH I lost all control - I instantly knew what had happened. I was damned lucky not to take out the cars around me or go off the road and through the chicken-wire fence over a cliff. I was able to pull off the road onto the edge of the asphalt shoulder and some soft dirt - and that’s what I think really stopped the sway. I opened the trailers rear door, and I swear half of the trailer contents fell out……. It took me over an hour to repack….the last 15 minutes in the rain…. Like I said I learned from this “exercise” - one of the first things I did when I bought my own trailer was to put in 2 horizontal rows of E-track in it!
To much weight at the back is dangerous it cause a pendulum effect. I drive very conservativly, I drive at 90k and the difference in fuel economy between 100 and 90kg is significant. Also braking is not proportional speed as there is a square law in operation with speed, a vehicle that doubles it speed squares the energy so 4 times as much. For safety reason I fitted dexter sway control, if it detects sway it can apply either booth brakes or individual brakes. I got stuck in a very bad cross wind recently and I felt the van brakes come on. I'm so glad I had it. You will pay less for insurance with sway control too. Insurance must realise how it can minimise sway.
@@L2SFBC Yes, as you explained in other clips, you only have a couple of seconds to correct the sway and few towing rigs have the kind of power needed given they are generally operating close to maximum - towing near max weights, running at highest speeds allowed for towing, generally in highest gear possible for fuel economy. At highest speed and top gear, there is very little left under the pedal to pull away as needed given the additional weight being dragged. Laws of physics says that letting off the gas will be better since the weight being dragged will want to pull back the towing vehicle as it sways, the vehicle's engine doesn't want to be doing 100kph if there's no bang to force the pistons down plus rolling and air resistance come into play. Since the towing vehicle wants to go slower, the trailers own brakes should apply themselves as the drawbar is pushed into the tow hitch. All acting together to stabilise the sway
@@s1udgeguts Thats a second option. Many decades ago, it was announced that a device to prevent ''jackknifing of trailers'' had been invented, but it never saw production. Some motorcycles have steering dampers to prevent ''speed wobbles'' so it would seem something similar could be used on trailers also. Prevention being better than an emergency cure. .
Really informative thanks. What is the advise if you have indirect electric trailer brakes with the brake controller in the trailer? So the trailer brakes are activated by the brake lights. Quite common with horse floats. I guess you would just brake because that will brake the trailer and stop the sway.
Grew up on a farm, so familiar with hitch trailers for moving cattle. These can be fun, but remember they are very heavy and dangerous things. Remember to be careful on turns, especially on higher speeds and give yourself more room to stop, just like a truck (lorry? ute?) on steroids. Again, due to the extra weight. Happy and safe travels to you.
Has this channel ever tested the impact of trailer sway resulting from the use of a weight distribution hitch? I make sure to load most of my gear over the trailer axles or forward but still seem to have sway once I reach 65mph.
In our last 3 cars the redarc tow button was mounted on the drivers side level with the knee, when i asked an auto electrician to move it he said that moving it could stop the wholecsetup stop working. Spoke to a redarc rep at a recent caravan show, he debunked that! He said the connector on the reat of the switch was a clip in (RJ45 computer connector) followed his advice and moved the switch to the centre console and it works. Hardest part was finding a spot to put it. Your advice on varying the breaking of the trailer on down hill runs is great would not though of doing it. Your videos are great, please keep them coming
Also, I have a trailer for work, 1000kg empty, tow vehicle a transit van, around 3100kg. Have had the trailer fully loaded (rated to 2700kg max). Never ever had a sway issue. If I’m unsure about the nose weight I’ll get the nose weight tool out and aim for 90-110kg. Works perfectly!.
Equalizer hitches tend to help with this, as the turning of the trailer pulls up on the bars and increases the resistance. Also, large RV trailers commonly have a friction slider to prevent sway. One issue you don't address is the distance from the tow vehicle rear axle to the ball of the hitch (tow bar). the longer that distance, the more sway that is natural. This is why you see fifth wheel trailers place the pin or ball as close to being directly above the tow vehicle rear axle. In the States, vehicles like the standard Chevy vans were more stable than the crown tow vehicle Chevrolet Suburban, due to this distance. Having 10% to 20% trailer weight on the ball helps. Too little or too much also induces sway. Your other video went into weight distribution but I didn't see you touch on tongue weight. Proportional braking systems have been available in the States since the '60s. Many earlier ones connected to the vehicle rear brake hydraulic line to run the controller where many today are electronic and sense deceleration.
I have a 20ft TT that that I tow with a Trail Boss. The brake controller is set at a comfortable setting. My question is, if I squeeze the controller in sway does that change my original setting ?
only found your channels by accident , I am getting more and more impressed!!! 1) very good tip on installing the brake switch in a spot the passenger can easily reach - my installer looked at me funny when i requested that. The truth is that in an unexpected situation, it is possible for me to have a stage fright, even for a couple seconds, at least my passenger might have an opportunity to save us! 2) I always do a test on my trailer brake setting on a medium and hard braking run to make sure its properly set on every new tow; 3) always brief the wife on every new trip (with our camper trailer) and get her to test the trailer brake function on that redarc, so we all remember what to do if something happens 4) if you have to operate that button to correct the sway more than once, perhaps it's time to work out why it is happening - this should not be a normal part of the operation
@@L2SFBC she doesnt unfortunately - long story short - childhood trauma - she knows the theories almost as much as i do but always afraid to make a mistake- it would be nice to share the load
Very interesting way to explain the sway. I like the rope analogy and the model. Great video. You can also hit the accelerator in the tow vehicle a little harder when braking the trailer if you are really swaying, at least until the sway subsides and you can slow safely with the trailer brake to a lower speed. On ice, these tips work to prevent jackknifing to some extent. On a trailer without brakes, going down an icy hill, 4wd and accelerate a little will straighten it out, but you better have room below!
This ONLY applies to Ancient "pig type " trailers not the more modern "dog trailers. It astounds me that van and trailer manufacturers add "features" and do not unload the ball on the vehicle which is a majour brake and instability issue, and make the trailers "weight distribution sensitive". About time the industry caught up with some modern tech to negate the down fall of ALL "pig type" trailers.
Why doesn’t the Australian government instead of wasting millions on what toilet to use get some clever engineers and experienced tow people get some old cars and caravans as test mules on a unused road or airport and come up with some answers to this huge safety matter.
@@L2SFBC there are government grants to research things like this and also tax concessions for past research. I do R&D for a living so have look into this because I believe you are the right man for the job.
I pull 20k pounds with my 2002 F250 7.3 Powerstroke regularly and the trailer brakes save me from getting pushed down the hills the same way a vehicle without brakes tows a vehicle with brakes so it can be stopped. If it was the other way around
Several years ago, while doing a tow with a minivan and tow dolly, the tow dolly and towed vehicle started to sway. I was traveling at a speed of about 80 km/h on the highway. My vehicle was equipped with a three-speed automatic transmission. I downshifted to second gear and accelerated sharply. Everything stabilized. I then installed yellow flashing lights on my tow dolly and I limit my speed to 70 km/h when towing.
A very very heavy duty full length aftermarket roof rack may have saved my life when an uninsured, unlicensed, idiot rear ended me on the freeway sending me off the freeway and rolling over twice down an embankment, These photos of the wrecked SUVs that were pulling trailers that look like the people in the front seat may not have survived due to roof/windshield frame/A pillar collapse remind me how much that roof rack contributed to saving my life. My replacement vehicle for my FJ cruiser that was totaled it is a 2020 Mercedes Sprinter tall Top passenger van That I am converting to an RV. I have binge watched hundreds of UA-cam videos on sprinter conversions and almost without fail every one of them build a shelf over the front cab seats to take advantage of the “wasted space” overhead. As you can see in these photographs that’s not wasted space when your roof caves in. That’s the space where your brain is going to be.
Relying on the trailer brake controller in an emergency situation strikes me as asking for trouble. Human performance under pressure is not reliable so recovery should be automated (maybe one day ABS braking could be extended to automate trailer braking). I'd eliminate the hazard and not pull a caravan (ever).
I don't tow much, but I'd probably be inclined to crank up the brake controller sensitivity as the initial reaction is to grab the wheel in a death grip and go for the foot brake. Having the increased bias to the trailer would hopefully pull everything into line. With the 3 seconds from sway starting to it all going pear shaped and spending 1.5-2 seconds diagnosing the issue, it doesn't give much time to explain the gravity of the situation to the passenger and then get them to identify and push the button.
Hopefully they should, but the cognitive impairment that comes in a high stress situation can make seemingly easy tasks confusing. Even well drilled flight crews that train for emergencies and have checklists to follow can choose the wrong option when it hits the fan. You might clearly point out the button and explain that it needs to be pushed and held when you tell them, but when the car starts getting thrown around by the van and everyone is freaking out, getting through to the passenger that now is that time might be too late.
death experience with an ford E350, I was towing a dump trailer that had 9,000 lbs of weight behind the axle. While accelerating up to 70 mph on the highway, a small car pass me on the left and throw the whole truck and trailer off the road. Took my foot off the gas pedal and hold on to the steering wheel straight. Shit my self, I’m lucky to be alive today. Pls I’m still nervous to tow an trailer again.🤦🏽♂️
Um ok so nobody's concerned about how crushed the suv was , if the suv CANT handle a roll over the last thing you should be concerned about is the trailer weight ? somebody needs better safty standards ,,, i know my GMC yukon wouldnt be crushed down to the windows....lets focus on what really killed the occupants of the vehicle,,,THE VEHICLES.......
How is the trailer going faster than the tow car? If they are positively connected and the tow car is accelerating? I get it, slowing the trailer is good, but your wording is a little erroneous.
I have a 3.5t trailer here in the UK with overrun brakes that I use to tow other vehicles. Only once did I have some minor sway, and that was because I instinctively tried to correct the movement. As soon as I realised I was feeding the sway and just relaxed it stopped. I wasn’t going fast enough for it to get bad fortunately. With overrun brakes I think you have the option of accelerating the tow car to match the trailer speed rather than breaking the trailer to match the car. Obviously only works if you have space to accelerate!
This obviously applies only to a “larger”trailer or caravan that has independent electric brakes. What about a smaller 1T trailer with no brakes or a mechanical ‘plunger’ brake mechanism? How to stop trailer sway on those?
Just got a new caravan, and using the WiTi system (developed in Perth, Australia). WiTi is short for Wireless Trailer Interface. All connections between tug and van are wireless, with a transponder plugged into the back of the tug, and the comms module in the front of the tunnel boot of the van. But relevant to this excellent video is the WiTi Brake Controller and Downhill Assist. It also communicates wirelessly with the van and controls its brakes in much the same way as the Redarc proportional controller does. But it also has downhill assist. The caravan unit has not only an accelerometer that detects the slowing down, but also has an inclinometer. So, when you're going downhill, feathering the brakes so you don't run away, but keeping a constant speed, there is no deceleration so the van is trying to push you down the hill. But with the inclinometer in there, it detects that downhill angle and applies the trailer brakes. The proportion can still be dialled up - in fact you can dial it up to the point where you're actually pulling the van down the hill - just. It's a great system, and looks like the future of trailer interfaces, instead of the old cable and plug thing. Worth a look - I don't have any affiliation with WiTi, by the way. They're at witi.com.au
Actual useful and life saving information done in a very informative way. Awesome job! Although, part of the issues AU maybe having is due to the steering wheel being on the wrong side of the car.
I've had an unfortunate incident of trailer sway after hitting a pothole on the freeway at 80km/h, the trailer picked up resonance and started to sway uncontrollably even when braking, so I did the opposite and dropped a gear and accelerated hard, which pulled the trailer straight and removed any sway it had. It was then just a matter of reducing speed again once it was under control. So trailer braking is one method to control sway but if you don't have it hard acceleration of the driving vehicle is another.
@@L2SFBC The trailer was a vehicle trailer but I had it loaded with workshop furniture (workbench, cupboards, etc...) The tow vehicle was a VH commodore I had at the time. I was fairly young and just moving house, as we quite often did at the time.
Ok glad it worked for you but for the vast majority of situations accelerating isn't possible and is dangerous. Diesel 4x4s towing heavy caravans don't really accelerate at around 80 to 100!
@@L2SFBC Yes I have to agree, I currently drive a naturally aspirated diesel and sometimes feel like getting out and pushing it along going up steep hills. I got the idea for acceleration from years ago when I went camping with some mates. They had three motorbikes and some camping gear in the back of a caged trailer, in which the same thing happened. They hit a pothole at 100 kl/h and then the trailer started rocking and then swaying heavily. They were attached to a 4x4 but that was all over the road, and breaking didn't help. We were driving behind and saw the whole episode unfold and the only thing that saved them was as the trailer began to sway and a combination of hitting the brakes slowed down the vehicle enough to enable them to accelerate heavily and pull the trailer straight again. Needless to say, they almost lost the entire thing and had nothing to loose by accelerating. I suppose a high centre of gravity attributed to the situation. It would be interesting to see if your model could replicate this. I think it just goes to show that shock absorbers may help in these situations. I suppose your string analogy works when one accelerates and the towing vehicles string becomes longer than the towed vehicle. Nice concept.
So as a crazy person, if you have a trailer without brakes, can you just floor it? You cant's slow down the trailer but you can speed up the tow vehicle and problem solved, right?
3 seconds from the start? That's tough. In this case I guess the button should be on the steering wheel so the driver can always touch it. Similar to playing a racing game with a gamepad. You know where all the buttons without looking at them.
Can these electric independent brakes be fitted to your trailer retrospectively, ie remove the original inertia type brakes and replace them with these, or do you have to actually 'build' the trailer to accommodate these brakes from the onset? Thanks.
Another excellent video. I thought the string length demonstration was brilliant. I'd love to see your talented friend model up a friction type anti-sway bar as I'm curious as to how effective they actually are.
The problem with this is. Once sway starts you got about 4 seconds until you're upside down. Theoretically it's the perfect solution to trailer sway. The practical application is not achievable.
We have mechanical brakes in Europe. As you slow it pushes the hitch, lever action pulls a cable going to the trailers drum brakes. You guys have electronic trailer brakes?
I forgot to ask a question the other day… Stationary, you can measure the nose weight, but when driving, how do you account for drag, say a suitable car, towing a caravan, does/can the drag on the caravan (given the car is punching a smaller hole in the air than the caravan) decrease weight on the nose, potentially leading to a rear heavy situation. May well be ok at lower speeds, but at 50-60mph 80-100kph, could it become an issue??
yes aerodynamics forces could increase or decrease noseweight, and have other effects leading to sway, but it's impossible to know what they are without very complex modelling. I suspect they would be very much secondary to weight - a view reflected by a F1 aero engineer in my Caravan Aerodynamics interview, check it out
The best way to be safe from trailer sway is to make sure that the tow car and trailer are suitable and correctly loaded, then drive sensibly. I have seen many trailers with over wieght and insecure loads.
Not sure if I’m missing something… but in the States this is very well known and all towing vehicles have a lever in the cockpit the actuates the trailer brakes…
Google "scale speed" - many explanations, including this. www.trainshop.co.uk/blog/post/230-how-do-you-calculate-scale-speed.html You don't simply divide the speed by the scale. Same way a 1/10 car won't scale weigh 1/10th of the weight of a full-size. Scaling is complex!
It depends on the brake setup on the trailer and nature of sway, and where the sensitivity is set. I'd recommend at least one second, though...but try it under normal conditions to get a feel for how it works. I would keep it pressed until sway goes away. Please share the video so others may learn!
many thanks for posting, very helpful information. after owning Tekonsha units ( P3 and older) and the Tow Pro elite ( for a caravan), its a shame the Tow Pro elite doesn't have a better way of applying extra 'emergency' level braking ( eg: like the Tekonsha manual lever) up to full braking power, without resorting to pushing and turning the knob at the same time. Maybe in the future they might enhance the button operation? ( one setting for normal and another extra ring for manual push button)
I agree too. Another reason I use a Tekonsha P3 instead of the Redarc is that as a colour blind male (8% of males are colourblind) I cannot distinguish between red and green on the Redarc Towpro. It is ridiculous that Redarc produce a safety device can't be used by colourblind males.
Hmmmm, I have a Tekonsha Prodigy P3 brake controller and to test/set it, it has a lever underneath to manually apply the brakes. So yes, it can be done .
I like the manual override lever system on the Tekonshas, as it allows you to easily change the amount of braking power the trailer gets, not so easy with the RedArc turn-button style. I have owned/used both.
This is great advice for trailers with brakes. For the case of a trailer with no brakes, like that for a jetski (in the united states, these are the requirements as I understand for trailer brakes: Brakes are required if the trailer has an empty weight of over 3,000 lbs. Combination of vehicles must be able to stop within legal limits. Requires any vehicle combination to stop in 40 feet at 20 mph.) theres another way to stop sway, but it requires a bit of room on the road to implement. What you do is steer with the sway. As the trailer travels to one side you steer very sightly to that side each time it sways, and only to one side. If you think of lane position as 1 being dead center, 2 and 3 being slightly off center to either side, 4 and 5 being wheels on the lines and so on, as the sway starts steer with it to one side, and you may end up being in a 4/5 or 6/7 lane position but you have manually dampened the trailers energy it gains from trying to recenter itself when it sways off center. I personally applied this technique with a trailer of a buddy that his jetskis sat too far back on the trailer, I was in the outside lane of a 6 lane interstate and from start of sway to end of sway I went from center of lane to tires over the shoulder line. I dont remember but I may have braked lightly at the same time, but defiantly dont jam on the brakes
Hi Robert, Another good one from you. Honestly, over in north Europe we had since the 70tes I belief Streckbremsen on trucks and trailers with an air operated handbrake under the steering wheels. It applied the air brakes on the trailer only. It makes the big Differenz, saved my life in 82 going down fully loaded a steep hill on Blitz ice… What I do not understand with todays electric brakes available that there is not a safety button extra which would allow by pressing full brake force for any system to be operated by a passenger or by your self. El brakes are not that powerful to look up the wheels. I would opt for an external emergency push button rather then fiddling around with the setting knobs. What do you think about that? Cheers
We call that trailer brake setting the trailer brake gain. I only recently learned how sweet it was to use during cornering! I have never experienced true uncontrollable sway. Anytime I get the tiniest bit of sway, letting off the gas has always corrected it. I am trying to drill into my head, for a time when I might need it, trailer brakes stop sway! ✌🇺🇸
@@L2SFBC I think your channel should be way more popular than it is. From what I've seen most here seem to be down under blokes 🤣 I hope I used that correctly & it's not derogatory in any way coming from me. Even though the measurements get confusing at times, metric vs US imperial, the info is very valuable for anyone towing a caravan. I'm gonna start using caravan instead of trailer, it's sounds so much more exotic 😅
If I'm pulling my small utility trailer -- no brakes -- and it starts to sway, should I increase the speed of the car and effectively increases its speed relative to the swaying trailer?
This is why newer cars with integrated trailer brake controllers with sway mitigation using a combination of the trailer brakes and ABS on the tow car is a good thing.
It works there as well, but never do it on corners, and use it gently on straight roads. A trailer without traction (one that's skidding due to too much braking applied) is no longer trailing, but is following the path determined by inertia. I've tested this with a semi truck and can tell you that fully applying the trailer brake at low speed while on ice (40km/hr) does cause the trailer to break from the towing path.
The problem with your experiment is that it is not using appropriate scaled-down weights and forces. It is true that weight distribution is important, but when using scaled-down items everything should be scaled to match the speed and forces. BTY the most effective way to control sway is trailer braking. Friction sway control is not as effective. There are products that deal with trailer braking for anti-sway control. Not all TV and trailer configurations need ani-sway, but these types of videos scare people to purchase them regardless. They remind me of snake oil salesman of the 1880s.
@@L2SFBC Yes, because it doesn't represent actual weights and forces that are scaled to match a typical trailer, TV, and speed. It would not pass a per view of the physics community. in short, it is an exaggeration. However, it is true that equalization of weight is important. Also, sway control is best handled by the brakes and not friction control. There are products that deal with braking if a trailer starts excessive sway.
Did you notice we scaled the speed? We did. Anyway, all that aside, you're saying it's invalid, so does that mean on a 1:1 scale you wouldn't, for example, see greater stability when the towcar is heavier? Or less stability when weight is shifted to the back? Because that's what the model shows, and that's what you're saying is invalid. Curious to see how you think it'd work on a 1:1.
@@L2SFBC All of it is simply not to scale and is therefore deceiving. Maybe you should consult a credentialed engineer or physicist. You should be able to tell what forces, speeds, and weight imbalances would cause a dangerous situation so people can understand if they have a real problem with their driving situation.
@@L2SFBC thanks! I’m in the US and the only “wagon” style trailers on the road are pulled by “tractor trailer” combination units, when they are pulling two or three trailers behind them. I’ve never seen a pickup truck pull a wagon style trailer, which has me wondering why? Are they not safe in that scale?
oh sorry for wagon style I thought you meant caravan. For what you describe it's the same principle, but because the mass of the trailer is about half on the "towcar" (prime mover), and that mass is between the front and rear axles, the combination is MUCH more stable!!
@@L2SFBC that’s how I understand it! I have a Class A drivers license (meaning I can drive a tractor trailer combo unit) so I have a fair understanding of trailers, but I’ve not pulled a trailer with a front steer axel and a rear static axle (wagon) and not ever seeing a wagon being towed by a pickup truck on the highway has me baffled. I’ve seen them on farms plenty, and as stated earlier, as double/triple trailer being pulled by a tractor (lorry), there must be something I’m missing. Anyhow, thanks for replying, and thanks for the small scale demo on trailer dynamics, it really puts into perspective how weight distribution affects driving stability.
What happens if you speed up going downhill, but you got the speed wobbles from going too fast to begin with? You’re going to find yourself with worse wobbles unless you’re accelerating towards an uphill gradient. If you run out of acceleration before that point you’ll probably crash worse than you could have imagined.
In the UK I don't have a separate braking system for my caravan. The few times I have had sway I tend to accelerate to bring the car up to the same speed as the caravan; this also works. Once the sway is gone I ca slow down, under control. The worst thing to do in sway is to brake as this will exasperate the situation.
yes - speeding up can work, provided you're able to. With a powerful car and light trailer from a slowish speed it may work. Slowing has also worked for some. But the most effective is the seperate braking system.
I have towed numerous trailers over the past several decades often long distance including loaded car trailers, tandem & single axle box trailers, campers, caravans etc etc. I have been in a situation numerous times where the trailer has started to 'fish tail'. A number of reasons were the cause including tyre blowouts, bearing / hub / wheel or even a complete wheel stud failure (all rear axle on tandem equipped car trailer). All of these situations resulted in a sudden and dramatic load shift rearwards on the trailer thus unloading the rear of the tow vehicle and creating an immediate and violent sway usually around the 90-100km/hr! In ALL of these cases the ONLY solution is to release the throttle, correct steering as GENTLY as possible & DO NOT APPLY BRAKES! (Had an electronic brake controller been fitted this would have obviously helped as per explained in the vid). Point being, 100% of the time you need to decrease your speed as gently as possible and as SMOOTHLY as possible while GENTLY keeping the vehicle on the road via smooth steering inputs (NOT aggressive corrections - sounds counter intuitive but it works!). Accelerating is a fantastic way to completely loose control, jack knife and crash possibly into oncoming traffic!! Why anyone would claim otherwise is beyond my comprehension but seems to be a far to commonly asserted MYTH!? Acceleration / braking inputs = BAD! Leave those pedals alone + gentle / progressive steering corrections + manual over ride on the ETBC if you have one = GOOD
I hope you become way more popular on UA-cam. A lot of people could use this information! Your content is well explained & easy to understand. The demonstrations are excellent! Thanks for what you do! I would love to support your work through UA-cam! 👍❤
Thanks Pam - sharing, liking, commenting on my videos helps me. And for those that would like to help me with my goal of reducing risk through education...there's my Patreon and what I believe in:
www.patreon.com/L2SFBC
l2sfbc.com/about/what-i-believe-in/
@@L2SFBC Have you done any UA-cam Shorts? I think some quick 1 min tutorials with your cute car & trailer treadmill could draw interest for more. Or bogging & winching ones self out of the mud would be wildly popular! Just a thought. 💥👍
No not yet...time is my limiting factor!
Great video! Everyone who pulls a trailer should be required to watch this.
Thanks please share 👍
In Uk electric trailer brakes are not legal, we have to have over run brakes. The only way to apply trailer brakes is to brake the car, like your Australian example.
Accelerating does work, but then you are going faster if it starts again! Bigger accident!
Very well explained! I was about to give my son this lecture, now I just need to send him a link with a much clearer demonstration than I could have given him because of your model. Many thanks
Glad it was helpful! Please share!
Thank you from The States. Will be towing my first camper soon and needed this info.
I was taught many years ago when I was in the army that you should accelerate hard to get the sway under control. Not sure I would have the guts to do it though...
I have a Redarc Tow Pro Elite, but I seriously doubt I could get my hands on it in only 3 seconds with such violent swerving going on. I agree that it is better with the passenger having access, which I will do with my next vehicle purchase in a year or so. Until then, I'm relying on the tow vehicle being almost twice the weight of the trailer. Thanks for your efforts, I am at least aware of the seriousness of the issue, as is my wife now.
You can do it - you apply the trailer brakes nice and early, AS SOON AS YOU FEEL THE SWAY. Possibly even pre-emptively. Doesn't hurt. You don't even need to lift off the accelerator, just get that trailer speed to the same or close to the towcar speed. And yes, a really heavy towcar is a great thing!!!!
My newer pickup have the brakes run automatically by the press of the brake pedal adjusts from how much I press the pedal.
PRACTICE! PRACTICE!! PRACTICE!!! And during a sway STAY CALM.
The sway starts slowly silly goose. U will be fine. Never rely on a passenger to save your life, you are the driver you are in control and responsible for being safe.
I’ve only had trailer sway once, and it almost sent me over a cliff - and I learned from it. I had packed a U-Haul 6x12 enclosed trailer “carefully” - paying quite a bit of attention to proper weight distribution - and it was very stable - I was doing up to 75 on the interstate without any sway or vibrations. I got off the interstate to go through a fast food drive-through for lunch. The drive-through had a 20-30 yard section that was at least a 45 degree slope. Well, starting and stoping multiple times on that slope to get to the pickup window, ended-up causing the entire load to shift backward a couple of feet, also caused a number of heavy box items to tumble over the top of everything to be against the back door. I got back on the interstate and as soon as I hit 45 MPH I lost all control - I instantly knew what had happened. I was damned lucky not to take out the cars around me or go off the road and through the chicken-wire fence over a cliff. I was able to pull off the road onto the edge of the asphalt shoulder and some soft dirt - and that’s what I think really stopped the sway. I opened the trailers rear door, and I swear half of the trailer contents fell out……. It took me over an hour to repack….the last 15 minutes in the rain…. Like I said I learned from this “exercise” - one of the first things I did when I bought my own trailer was to put in 2 horizontal rows of E-track in it!
wow, thanks for that story!!!
To much weight at the back is dangerous it cause a pendulum effect.
I drive very conservativly, I drive at 90k and the difference in fuel economy between 100 and 90kg is significant.
Also braking is not proportional speed as there is a square law in operation with speed, a vehicle that doubles it speed squares the energy so 4 times as much.
For safety reason I fitted dexter sway control, if it detects sway it can apply either booth brakes or individual brakes.
I got stuck in a very bad cross wind recently and I felt the van brakes come on.
I'm so glad I had it.
You will pay less for insurance with sway control too.
Insurance must realise how it can minimise sway.
Anyone else wondering why they used white string for the black car path and black string for the white trailer
Sorry!
I told my son, if his trailer starts to sway, NEVER brake, always accelerate, which has the same effect as braking the trailer.
.
It does, but accelerating is less efffective.
@@L2SFBC
It's totally effective, IF you have nothing else!
@@L2SFBC Yes, as you explained in other clips, you only have a couple of seconds to correct the sway and few towing rigs have the kind of power needed given they are generally operating close to maximum - towing near max weights, running at highest speeds allowed for towing, generally in highest gear possible for fuel economy.
At highest speed and top gear, there is very little left under the pedal to pull away as needed given the additional weight being dragged.
Laws of physics says that letting off the gas will be better since the weight being dragged will want to pull back the towing vehicle as it sways, the vehicle's engine doesn't want to be doing 100kph if there's no bang to force the pistons down plus rolling and air resistance come into play. Since the towing vehicle wants to go slower, the trailers own brakes should apply themselves as the drawbar is pushed into the tow hitch. All acting together to stabilise the sway
@@s1udgeguts
Thats a second option.
Many decades ago, it was announced that a device to prevent ''jackknifing of trailers'' had been invented, but it never saw production.
Some motorcycles have steering dampers to prevent ''speed wobbles'' so it would seem something similar could be used on trailers also. Prevention being better than an emergency cure.
.
This series is solid gold……..and this coming from a Yank.
Thank you ny USA friend :-)
Another awesome education piece on towing safe.
Super helpful video and demonstration. Many thanks!
Really informative thanks. What is the advise if you have indirect electric trailer brakes with the brake controller in the trailer? So the trailer brakes are activated by the brake lights. Quite common with horse floats. I guess you would just brake because that will brake the trailer and stop the sway.
yes, that's all you can do
This was so helpful for someone thinking of getting their first caravan - thank you!
Grew up on a farm, so familiar with hitch trailers for moving cattle. These can be fun, but remember they are very heavy and dangerous things. Remember to be careful on turns, especially on higher speeds and give yourself more room to stop, just like a truck (lorry? ute?) on steroids. Again, due to the extra weight. Happy and safe travels to you.
Need to put a g-sensor and an arduino to automate the activation
Has this channel ever tested the impact of trailer sway resulting from the use of a weight distribution hitch? I make sure to load most of my gear over the trailer axles or forward but still seem to have sway once I reach 65mph.
Not yet
In our last 3 cars the redarc tow button was mounted on the drivers side level with the knee, when i asked an auto electrician to move it he said that moving it could stop the wholecsetup stop working. Spoke to a redarc rep at a recent caravan show, he debunked that! He said the connector on the reat of the switch was a clip in (RJ45 computer connector) followed his advice and moved the switch to the centre console and it works. Hardest part was finding a spot to put it.
Your advice on varying the breaking of the trailer on down hill runs is great would not though of doing it.
Your videos are great, please keep them coming
Excellent video mate
Also, I have a trailer for work, 1000kg empty, tow vehicle a transit van, around 3100kg. Have had the trailer fully loaded (rated to 2700kg max). Never ever had a sway issue. If I’m unsure about the nose weight I’ll get the nose weight tool out and aim for 90-110kg. Works perfectly!.
Great to hear!
Equalizer hitches tend to help with this, as the turning of the trailer pulls up on the bars and increases the resistance. Also, large RV trailers commonly have a friction slider to prevent sway. One issue you don't address is the distance from the tow vehicle rear axle to the ball of the hitch (tow bar). the longer that distance, the more sway that is natural. This is why you see fifth wheel trailers place the pin or ball as close to being directly above the tow vehicle rear axle. In the States, vehicles like the standard Chevy vans were more stable than the crown tow vehicle Chevrolet Suburban, due to this distance. Having 10% to 20% trailer weight on the ball helps. Too little or too much also induces sway. Your other video went into weight distribution but I didn't see you touch on tongue weight. Proportional braking systems have been available in the States since the '60s. Many earlier ones connected to the vehicle rear brake hydraulic line to run the controller where many today are electronic and sense deceleration.
But the brake controller is only activated by my vehicles brakes so how would I only activate the brake controller? Lol
No, the brake controller can be activated independently of the towcar brakes.
Well done boys, it is crazy people can tow caravans without this type of information
I have a 20ft TT that that I tow with a Trail Boss. The brake controller is set at a comfortable setting. My question is, if I squeeze the controller in sway does that change my original setting ?
No. It will revert to your original setting after manual control. Good question.
@@L2SFBCthank you
only found your channels by accident , I am getting more and more impressed!!!
1) very good tip on installing the brake switch in a spot the passenger can easily reach - my installer looked at me funny when i requested that. The truth is that in an unexpected situation, it is possible for me to have a stage fright, even for a couple seconds, at least my passenger might have an opportunity to save us!
2) I always do a test on my trailer brake setting on a medium and hard braking run to make sure its properly set on every new tow;
3) always brief the wife on every new trip (with our camper trailer) and get her to test the trailer brake function on that redarc, so we all remember what to do if something happens
4) if you have to operate that button to correct the sway more than once, perhaps it's time to work out why it is happening - this should not be a normal part of the operation
thank you aron! Very good points too, appreciate the post. Note: your wife may also wish to drive?
@@L2SFBC she doesnt unfortunately - long story short - childhood trauma - she knows the theories almost as much as i do but always afraid to make a mistake- it would be nice to share the load
Sorry to hear that :-(
Geat explanation!!
Great video. I'm new to electric braking for towing and this video really helped me.
Glad it helped
I love these demonstrations.
Thanks, please share!
Very interesting way to explain the sway. I like the rope analogy and the model. Great video.
You can also hit the accelerator in the tow vehicle a little harder when braking the trailer if you are really swaying, at least until the sway subsides and you can slow safely with the trailer brake to a lower speed.
On ice, these tips work to prevent jackknifing to some extent. On a trailer without brakes, going down an icy hill, 4wd and accelerate a little will straighten it out, but you better have room below!
So useful. Thanks.
Thanks, please share!
This ONLY applies to Ancient "pig type " trailers not the more modern "dog trailers. It astounds me that van and trailer manufacturers add "features" and do not unload the ball on the vehicle which is a majour brake and instability issue, and make the trailers "weight distribution sensitive". About time the industry caught up with some modern tech to negate the down fall of ALL "pig type" trailers.
Why doesn’t the Australian government instead of wasting millions on what toilet to use get some clever engineers and experienced tow people get some old cars and caravans as test mules on a unused road or airport and come up with some answers to this huge safety matter.
If I get enough funding that is top of my research list!
@@L2SFBC there are government grants to research things like this and also tax concessions for past research. I do R&D for a living so have look into this because I believe you are the right man for the job.
How do I do that please?
Because that's not the government's job.
I think relying on the passenger to hit the button is a bad idea. I prefer a greater trailer brake bias to slow the trailer with the car's foot brake.
Who said anything about relying?
How do you control sway if you have a Europan caravan with over ride brakes.
Slow down slowly and hope.
I pull 20k pounds with my 2002 F250 7.3 Powerstroke regularly and the trailer brakes save me from getting pushed down the hills the same way a vehicle without brakes tows a vehicle with brakes so it can be stopped. If it was the other way around
Several years ago, while doing a tow with a minivan and tow dolly, the tow dolly and towed vehicle started to sway. I was traveling at a speed of about 80 km/h on the highway. My vehicle was equipped with a three-speed automatic transmission. I downshifted to second gear and accelerated sharply. Everything stabilized.
I then installed yellow flashing lights on my tow dolly and I limit my speed to 70 km/h when towing.
Thanks, good to hear real stories!
What if you have no break controller? Speed up?
No, slow down gently and steer straight
A very very heavy duty full length aftermarket roof rack may have saved my life when an uninsured, unlicensed, idiot rear ended me on the freeway sending me off the freeway and rolling over twice down an embankment, These photos of the wrecked SUVs that were pulling trailers that look like the people in the front seat may not have survived due to roof/windshield frame/A pillar collapse remind me how much that roof rack contributed to saving my life. My replacement vehicle for my FJ cruiser that was totaled it is a 2020 Mercedes Sprinter tall Top passenger van That I am converting to an RV. I have binge watched hundreds of UA-cam videos on sprinter conversions and almost without fail every one of them build a shelf over the front cab seats to take advantage of the “wasted space” overhead. As you can see in these photographs that’s not wasted space when your roof caves in. That’s the space where your brain is going to be.
Yes indeed - also noting the rolled Pajero was an older design. Newer vehicles have much, much stronger A B C pillars.
Relying on the trailer brake controller in an emergency situation strikes me as asking for trouble. Human performance under pressure is not reliable so recovery should be automated (maybe one day ABS braking could be extended to automate trailer braking). I'd eliminate the hazard and not pull a caravan (ever).
I don't tow much, but I'd probably be inclined to crank up the brake controller sensitivity as the initial reaction is to grab the wheel in a death grip and go for the foot brake. Having the increased bias to the trailer would hopefully pull everything into line.
With the 3 seconds from sway starting to it all going pear shaped and spending 1.5-2 seconds diagnosing the issue, it doesn't give much time to explain the gravity of the situation to the passenger and then get them to identify and push the button.
That's why the passenger needs to know in advance!
Hopefully they should, but the cognitive impairment that comes in a high stress situation can make seemingly easy tasks confusing. Even well drilled flight crews that train for emergencies and have checklists to follow can choose the wrong option when it hits the fan.
You might clearly point out the button and explain that it needs to be pushed and held when you tell them, but when the car starts getting thrown around by the van and everyone is freaking out, getting through to the passenger that now is that time might be too late.
death experience with an ford E350, I was towing a dump trailer that had 9,000 lbs of weight behind the axle. While accelerating up to 70 mph on the highway, a small car pass me on the left and throw the whole truck and trailer off the road. Took my foot off the gas pedal and hold on to the steering wheel straight. Shit my self, I’m lucky to be alive today. Pls I’m still nervous to tow an trailer again.🤦🏽♂️
Um ok so nobody's concerned about how crushed the suv was , if the suv CANT handle a roll over the last thing you should be concerned about is the trailer weight ? somebody needs better safty standards ,,, i know my GMC yukon wouldnt be crushed down to the windows....lets focus on what really killed the occupants of the vehicle,,,THE VEHICLES.......
How is the trailer going faster than the tow car? If they are positively connected and the tow car is accelerating? I get it, slowing the trailer is good, but your wording is a little erroneous.
The trailer is snaking, creating a S shaped curve. So it takes longer. See my Trailer Sway What Works / Doesn't video for a proper explanation.
A very helpful video. Thank you.
Thanks please share :-)
I have a 3.5t trailer here in the UK with overrun brakes that I use to tow other vehicles. Only once did I have some minor sway, and that was because I instinctively tried to correct the movement. As soon as I realised I was feeding the sway and just relaxed it stopped. I wasn’t going fast enough for it to get bad fortunately. With overrun brakes I think you have the option of accelerating the tow car to match the trailer speed rather than breaking the trailer to match the car. Obviously only works if you have space to accelerate!
These are fabulous videos Rob. ..Just had my L Plater sons watch them with me. Great job mate thanks.👍
I'm so pleased to see new drivers learn!!!! Please share :-)
Great video! This advice could be invaluable
Please share 🙏
OK. A couple of kids wanting to play with RC cars. 😊 BUT what a perfect way to demonstrate for an RV newbie like me. Excellent.
This obviously applies only to a “larger”trailer or caravan that has independent electric brakes. What about a smaller 1T trailer with no brakes or a mechanical ‘plunger’ brake mechanism? How to stop trailer sway on those?
Great content and explanation :)
Glad you liked it!
Just got a new caravan, and using the WiTi system (developed in Perth, Australia). WiTi is short for Wireless Trailer Interface. All connections between tug and van are wireless, with a transponder plugged into the back of the tug, and the comms module in the front of the tunnel boot of the van. But relevant to this excellent video is the WiTi Brake Controller and Downhill Assist. It also communicates wirelessly with the van and controls its brakes in much the same way as the Redarc proportional controller does. But it also has downhill assist. The caravan unit has not only an accelerometer that detects the slowing down, but also has an inclinometer. So, when you're going downhill, feathering the brakes so you don't run away, but keeping a constant speed, there is no deceleration so the van is trying to push you down the hill. But with the inclinometer in there, it detects that downhill angle and applies the trailer brakes. The proportion can still be dialled up - in fact you can dial it up to the point where you're actually pulling the van down the hill - just. It's a great system, and looks like the future of trailer interfaces, instead of the old cable and plug thing. Worth a look - I don't have any affiliation with WiTi, by the way. They're at witi.com.au
Thank you yes am aware of them but this is the first credible user feedback I have seen. I own an ElecBrakes system.
Actual useful and life saving information done in a very informative way. Awesome job!
Although, part of the issues AU maybe having is due to the steering wheel being on the wrong side of the car.
:-)
@@L2SFBC ....are you putin me on?
How so?
THANKS! Wasn't previously on my radar!
Surely in this day and age, electronics could detect the danger and apply automatically
Yes but it is better if the electronics never need to engage.
@@L2SFBC sure, but ... That's another issue
I've had an unfortunate incident of trailer sway after hitting a pothole on the freeway at 80km/h, the trailer picked up resonance and started to sway uncontrollably even when braking, so I did the opposite and dropped a gear and accelerated hard, which pulled the trailer straight and removed any sway it had. It was then just a matter of reducing speed again once it was under control. So trailer braking is one method to control sway but if you don't have it hard acceleration of the driving vehicle is another.
How heavy was the trailer and what was the towcar?
@@L2SFBC The trailer was a vehicle trailer but I had it loaded with workshop furniture (workbench, cupboards, etc...) The tow vehicle was a VH commodore I had at the time. I was fairly young and just moving house, as we quite often did at the time.
Ok glad it worked for you but for the vast majority of situations accelerating isn't possible and is dangerous. Diesel 4x4s towing heavy caravans don't really accelerate at around 80 to 100!
@@L2SFBC Yes I have to agree, I currently drive a naturally aspirated diesel and sometimes feel like getting out and pushing it along going up steep hills. I got the idea for acceleration from years ago when I went camping with some mates. They had three motorbikes and some camping gear in the back of a caged trailer, in which the same thing happened. They hit a pothole at 100 kl/h and then the trailer started rocking and then swaying heavily. They were attached to a 4x4 but that was all over the road, and breaking didn't help. We were driving behind and saw the whole episode unfold and the only thing that saved them was as the trailer began to sway and a combination of hitting the brakes slowed down the vehicle enough to enable them to accelerate heavily and pull the trailer straight again. Needless to say, they almost lost the entire thing and had nothing to loose by accelerating. I suppose a high centre of gravity attributed to the situation. It would be interesting to see if your model could replicate this. I think it just goes to show that shock absorbers may help in these situations. I suppose your string analogy works when one accelerates and the towing vehicles string becomes longer than the towed vehicle. Nice concept.
I have one video on trailer weight height and another coming soon! Yes the string concept works too both ways.
So as a crazy person, if you have a trailer without brakes, can you just floor it? You cant's slow down the trailer but you can speed up the tow vehicle and problem solved, right?
That can work but isn't recommended as more speed has rhr potential to also increase sway. Without trailer brakes you need to slowly slow down.
Or does it stabilise when you put your car in neutral in the heat of the moment? Or just maintain the same speed?
3 seconds from the start? That's tough. In this case I guess the button should be on the steering wheel so the driver can always touch it. Similar to playing a racing game with a gamepad. You know where all the buttons without looking at them.
Yes but we prefer where the passenger can reach it
A brake controller is the best upgrade I've ever added to my truck. I don't know why I waited so long. Thanks for the video (from the U.S.)
Thank you!
Can these electric independent brakes be fitted to your trailer retrospectively, ie remove the original inertia type brakes and replace them with these, or do you have to actually 'build' the trailer to accommodate these brakes from the onset? Thanks.
You can retrofit
Another excellent video. I thought the string length demonstration was brilliant. I'd love to see your talented friend model up a friction type anti-sway bar as I'm curious as to how effective they actually are.
It's on the list...and they do work!
The problem with this is. Once sway starts you got about 4 seconds until you're upside down. Theoretically it's the perfect solution to trailer sway. The practical application is not achievable.
Practical application?
We have mechanical brakes in Europe.
As you slow it pushes the hitch, lever action pulls a cable going to the trailers drum brakes.
You guys have electronic trailer brakes?
Those are called overrun brakes in Australia and are used on trailers less than around 2000kg. Yes we have electric brakes for heavier trailers.
I forgot to ask a question the other day…
Stationary, you can measure the nose weight, but when driving, how do you account for drag, say a suitable car, towing a caravan, does/can the drag on the caravan (given the car is punching a smaller hole in the air than the caravan) decrease weight on the nose, potentially leading to a rear heavy situation. May well be ok at lower speeds, but at 50-60mph 80-100kph, could it become an issue??
yes aerodynamics forces could increase or decrease noseweight, and have other effects leading to sway, but it's impossible to know what they are without very complex modelling. I suspect they would be very much secondary to weight - a view reflected by a F1 aero engineer in my Caravan Aerodynamics interview, check it out
Great example and explanation, and excellent information on the TowPro.
The best way to be safe from trailer sway is to make sure that the tow car and trailer are suitable and correctly loaded, then drive sensibly. I have seen many trailers with over wieght and insecure loads.
Good advice 👍
I think that’s unsecure loads unless your load has had a recent break up, Then its insecure but therapy helps
Loads need commitment.
Not sure if I’m missing something… but in the States this is very well known and all towing vehicles have a lever in the cockpit the actuates the trailer brakes…
Not well known in Australia!
Just out of curiosity, how did you scale the speed ? This is a 1/10 rc car. So it's moving with 10km/h and is equivalent to 100km/h?
Google "scale speed" - many explanations, including this. www.trainshop.co.uk/blog/post/230-how-do-you-calculate-scale-speed.html
You don't simply divide the speed by the scale. Same way a 1/10 car won't scale weigh 1/10th of the weight of a full-size.
Scaling is complex!
With the Redarc pro how long would you suggest pressing the button for? Thank for a excellent video cheers Robert
It depends on the brake setup on the trailer and nature of sway, and where the sensitivity is set. I'd recommend at least one second, though...but try it under normal conditions to get a feel for how it works. I would keep it pressed until sway goes away. Please share the video so others may learn!
many thanks for posting, very helpful information. after owning Tekonsha units ( P3 and older) and the Tow Pro elite ( for a caravan), its a shame the Tow Pro elite doesn't have a better way of applying extra 'emergency' level braking ( eg: like the Tekonsha manual lever) up to full braking power, without resorting to pushing and turning the knob at the same time. Maybe in the future they might enhance the button operation? ( one setting for normal and another extra ring for manual push button)
Agreed!
I agree too. Another reason I use a Tekonsha P3 instead of the Redarc is that as a colour blind male (8% of males are colourblind) I cannot distinguish between red and green on the Redarc Towpro. It is ridiculous that Redarc produce a safety device can't be used by colourblind males.
Hmmmm, I have a Tekonsha Prodigy P3 brake controller and to test/set it, it has a lever underneath to manually apply the brakes. So yes, it can be done .
I like the manual override lever system on the Tekonshas, as it allows you to easily change the amount of braking power the trailer gets, not so easy with the RedArc turn-button style. I have owned/used both.
This is great advice for trailers with brakes.
For the case of a trailer with no brakes, like that for a jetski (in the united states, these are the requirements as I understand for trailer brakes: Brakes are required if the trailer has an empty weight of over 3,000 lbs. Combination of vehicles must be able to stop within legal limits. Requires any vehicle combination to stop in 40 feet at 20 mph.) theres another way to stop sway, but it requires a bit of room on the road to implement.
What you do is steer with the sway.
As the trailer travels to one side you steer very sightly to that side each time it sways, and only to one side. If you think of lane position as 1 being dead center, 2 and 3 being slightly off center to either side, 4 and 5 being wheels on the lines and so on, as the sway starts steer with it to one side, and you may end up being in a 4/5 or 6/7 lane position but you have manually dampened the trailers energy it gains from trying to recenter itself when it sways off center.
I personally applied this technique with a trailer of a buddy that his jetskis sat too far back on the trailer, I was in the outside lane of a 6 lane interstate and from start of sway to end of sway I went from center of lane to tires over the shoulder line. I dont remember but I may have braked lightly at the same time, but defiantly dont jam on the brakes
Another old trick is to speed up. I’ve used this technique a few times on trailers without brakes. It feels counter intuitive but it works.
Whats the main reason of sway the trailer is moving faster than the tow vehicle aka gas pedal will pull it out to stop the voilent sway
Thank you
You're welcome, please share!
Hi Robert,
Another good one from you.
Honestly, over in north Europe we had since the 70tes I belief Streckbremsen on trucks and trailers with an air operated handbrake under the steering wheels. It applied the air brakes on the trailer only. It makes the big Differenz, saved my life in 82 going down fully loaded a steep hill on Blitz ice…
What I do not understand with todays electric brakes available that there is not a safety button extra which would allow by pressing full brake force for any system to be operated by a passenger or by your self. El brakes are not that powerful to look up the wheels.
I would opt for an external emergency push button rather then fiddling around with the setting knobs.
What do you think about that?
Cheers
The setting button is the emergency manual override
So am I right that you have to accelerate out when towing an unbraked trailer?
We call that trailer brake setting the trailer brake gain. I only recently learned how sweet it was to use during cornering! I have never experienced true uncontrollable sway. Anytime I get the tiniest bit of sway, letting off the gas has always corrected it. I am trying to drill into my head, for a time when I might need it, trailer brakes stop sway! ✌🇺🇸
You have the best phrases Pam!
And thanks really appreciate experience and input from around the world
@@L2SFBC I think your channel should be way more popular than it is. From what I've seen most here seem to be down under blokes 🤣 I hope I used that correctly & it's not derogatory in any way coming from me.
Even though the measurements get confusing at times, metric vs US imperial, the info is very valuable for anyone towing a caravan. I'm gonna start using caravan instead of trailer, it's sounds so much more exotic 😅
About 37% of my audience is North America and of the total 5% is female.
@@L2SFBC That's awesome. I hope the others from the US can comprehend the measures better than I. 😁
John looks like he just found out his wife died or something, damn
When a person hits their breaks in the tow vehicle while it is swaying is when they loss total control and no recovery is possible
obviously you would let off the gas i would assume
So when you apply the trailer brakes are they applied constantly or intermittent?
Around 1-3 seconds is usually enough, then release.
Do you have a model of a Hensley hitch (ProPride 3P) that you can add to your setup to demonstrate how that design actually prevents sway?
sorry I don't
If I'm pulling my small utility trailer -- no brakes -- and it starts to sway, should I increase the speed of the car and effectively increases its speed relative to the swaying trailer?
If it's that small, I'd slow down as the trailer probably couldn't boss the car around anyway.
@@L2SFBC Thanks for your reply. Cheers.
Love your beautiful dogs. :)
You are so kind, not mine!
Either brake or speed up
This is why newer cars with integrated trailer brake controllers with sway mitigation using a combination of the trailer brakes and ABS on the tow car is a good thing.
Would love to see a video of same thing and if it works the same theory on icy/snow packed roads
It does 👍
It works there as well, but never do it on corners, and use it gently on straight roads. A trailer without traction (one that's skidding due to too much braking applied) is no longer trailing, but is following the path determined by inertia. I've tested this with a semi truck and can tell you that fully applying the trailer brake at low speed while on ice (40km/hr) does cause the trailer to break from the towing path.
Great video. Are they wombats on the grass in the background?
Yes!
🏆🏆🏆👍🇺🇲🙏.
Thank you for sharing
Robert and John, not sure of legal use in the 'States, but love the idea. Nice demonstration! Too bad the controller doesn't go to 11 ;)
11? 😲
@@pamlove421 From the movie "This is Spinal Tap" referring to guitar amps. Funny clip on UA-cam about it...
I didn't get it either...i
@@L2SFBC I guess I'm just showing my age ;)
SPINAL TAP!
The problem with your experiment is that it is not using appropriate scaled-down weights and forces. It is true that weight distribution is important, but when using scaled-down items everything should be scaled to match the speed and forces. BTY the most effective way to control sway is trailer braking. Friction sway control is not as effective. There are products that deal with trailer braking for anti-sway control. Not all TV and trailer configurations need ani-sway, but these types of videos scare people to purchase them regardless. They remind me of snake oil salesman of the 1880s.
So are you saying the demonstration was invalid?
@@L2SFBC Yes, because it doesn't represent actual weights and forces that are scaled to match a typical trailer, TV, and speed. It would not pass a per view of the physics community. in short, it is an exaggeration. However, it is true that equalization of weight is important. Also, sway control is best handled by the brakes and not friction control. There are products that deal with braking if a trailer starts excessive sway.
Did you notice we scaled the speed? We did. Anyway, all that aside, you're saying it's invalid, so does that mean on a 1:1 scale you wouldn't, for example, see greater stability when the towcar is heavier? Or less stability when weight is shifted to the back? Because that's what the model shows, and that's what you're saying is invalid. Curious to see how you think it'd work on a 1:1.
@@L2SFBC All of it is simply not to scale and is therefore deceiving. Maybe you should consult a credentialed engineer or physicist. You should be able to tell what forces, speeds, and weight imbalances would cause a dangerous situation so people can understand if they have a real problem with their driving situation.
Thank you!!!!!!
You're welcome!
Brilliant! I've been doing something right for awhile and I didn't even know!
Nice work! Glad you get 'why' now!
@@L2SFBC absolutely, Rob! Thanks very much, Mate👍🏾
Excellent...please share :-)
@@L2SFBC have sent on to several of my friends and family 👍🏾
Not much thought in to string colour
Lol, I wondered about that.
Can you show us how a “wagon” style trailer behaves on this setup?
same way!
@@L2SFBC thanks! I’m in the US and the only “wagon” style trailers on the road are pulled by “tractor trailer” combination units, when they are pulling two or three trailers behind them. I’ve never seen a pickup truck pull a wagon style trailer, which has me wondering why? Are they not safe in that scale?
oh sorry for wagon style I thought you meant caravan. For what you describe it's the same principle, but because the mass of the trailer is about half on the "towcar" (prime mover), and that mass is between the front and rear axles, the combination is MUCH more stable!!
@@L2SFBC that’s how I understand it! I have a Class A drivers license (meaning I can drive a tractor trailer combo unit) so I have a fair understanding of trailers, but I’ve not pulled a trailer with a front steer axel and a rear static axle (wagon) and not ever seeing a wagon being towed by a pickup truck on the highway has me baffled. I’ve seen them on farms plenty, and as stated earlier, as double/triple trailer being pulled by a tractor (lorry), there must be something I’m missing. Anyhow, thanks for replying, and thanks for the small scale demo on trailer dynamics, it really puts into perspective how weight distribution affects driving stability.
You could also speed the car up.
Not recommended!
@@L2SFBC it’s not the best idea, but it is a solution.
What happens if you speed up going downhill, but you got the speed wobbles from going too fast to begin with? You’re going to find yourself with worse wobbles unless you’re accelerating towards an uphill gradient. If you run out of acceleration before that point you’ll probably crash worse than you could have imagined.
In the UK I don't have a separate braking system for my caravan. The few times I have had sway I tend to accelerate to bring the car up to the same speed as the caravan; this also works. Once the sway is gone I ca slow down, under control. The worst thing to do in sway is to brake as this will exasperate the situation.
yes - speeding up can work, provided you're able to. With a powerful car and light trailer from a slowish speed it may work. Slowing has also worked for some. But the most effective is the seperate braking system.
Most effective, is change the weight distribution on the trailer. It shouldn't happen repeatedly.
I have towed numerous trailers over the past several decades often long distance including loaded car trailers, tandem & single axle box trailers, campers, caravans etc etc. I have been in a situation numerous times where the trailer has started to 'fish tail'. A number of reasons were the cause including tyre blowouts, bearing / hub / wheel or even a complete wheel stud failure (all rear axle on tandem equipped car trailer). All of these situations resulted in a sudden and dramatic load shift rearwards on the trailer thus unloading the rear of the tow vehicle and creating an immediate and violent sway usually around the 90-100km/hr! In ALL of these cases the ONLY solution is to release the throttle, correct steering as GENTLY as possible & DO NOT APPLY BRAKES! (Had an electronic brake controller been fitted this would have obviously helped as per explained in the vid). Point being, 100% of the time you need to decrease your speed as gently as possible and as SMOOTHLY as possible while GENTLY keeping the vehicle on the road via smooth steering inputs (NOT aggressive corrections - sounds counter intuitive but it works!). Accelerating is a fantastic way to completely loose control, jack knife and crash possibly into oncoming traffic!! Why anyone would claim otherwise is beyond my comprehension but seems to be a far to commonly asserted MYTH!? Acceleration / braking inputs = BAD! Leave those pedals alone + gentle / progressive steering corrections + manual over ride on the ETBC if you have one = GOOD
why not use an equalizer hitch , I do and I never have any problems, you have to set it up properly tho...that sir is the secret!!
Very informative.. Thanks
My pleasure, please share :-)