Nice review. Covers more aspects of wheels than I could imagine. Not trying to sound like an advert, but Elite Wheels now offers their Gnar Trail wheels, with their "DT-Style" ratchet hub. They're about $100 cheaper than the "killer bee" high engagement hub. I ordered mine a couple days ago.
Like you, I prefer a quiet bike. Lube the pawls and engagement ring with Dumonde Pro-X freehub grease. It makes my I9 hydra hub nearly silent. AND, I used the same lube on my road bike Elite D40 wheelset hub and it too is way quieter. Cool thing is, as the grease degrades the hub gets louder and you know it's time to service again.
I don't agree that higher POE means higher pedal kick on FS bike. It means more often pedal kick, because low POE means some kicks disappeare in the free stroke between engagement points, but those, which are timed exactly in the engagement point of the hub, are exactly as strong as on high POE hub. So high POE means more pedal kicks, not stronger pedal kicks. I think for me would be more pleasant, if i got the same "kick-behavior" from each rear compression - which means it's transparent. Not like some compressions randomly kick and some don't - which is what low POE means.
I much prefer higher POE for climbing, but really dislike the feeling of getting hung up that the kickback gives. In 30-52t with 36 POE, I have 17.3 degrees of freedom at the crank, which I find undermines my confidence. I do wonder if a higher POE, combined with a cush drive would give the speed of engagement I'm after whilst damping the kick back. I also feel like there is much higher inertia behind the engagement with a lower POE, so although the components in lower POE are larger, they're also shock loaded more than they would be in a higher POE system. I once loathed the idea of an o-chain, but it does seem to have a niche use case. Definitely not a niche that is worth spending nearly £400 to experiment with, though 😂
Are the pawls offset? That is, do all eight engage at the same time? My Hyper Lun wheels (which sound like a squadron of mosquitoes) use six pawls and three are slightly offset. I removed the set of three offset pawls and the sound was greatly reduced. Have been riding this set up for about 18 months and haven't noticed any engagement problems.
Instant sub for the real talk - Even if I refuse to treat myself as much as you do. I'm sure the wheels are worth it, but I ride my already overkill carbon full sus specialized so seldom, it's better to donate the cash...
Can you donate me the cash? 😁 I need some Carbon wheels for my Stumpjumper Carbon Comp. I think my wheelset is over 4.2 Kg's and my frame with the rear shock is 2.2Kg 😅
I'm with you on noisy freehubs. I do not like them. I packed my DT Swiss freehub on my mountain bike with grease to quiet it down. I think my favorite rear mtb hub I've ridden is an Onyx Vesper. Silent. The only sound I want to hear is the tires on the trail.
@@PeakTorque Thanks for the tip! I did find that if I had too much in there, it slipped, as you warned. The difference between slipping and working perfectly is pretty small. I was able to find a happy medium. :)
got 3 road wheel sets by now (plus one gravel for a friend) super happy. one marvel from their website with dt swiss and 2 aliexpress ENT wheelsets. value for money is insane
I agree and will add another point: more points of engagement = smaller parts (pawls & ratchet teeth) = faster wear = shorter lifespan. Especially now that pawls are often made of alloy rather than steel like they used to be in days of yore. Ask me how I know
If only one pair of pawls are engaged at a time, then a pair is enough to transmit the pedalling force. If thats true and you want to feel less like a dickhead, then why not hoick out the other pawls and just leave one pair?
Really like my Elite Pro 33, except for the fact they put them together with no anti-seize compound on the spoke threads, resulting in the nipples seizing and/or corroding, and that’s riding XC in predominantly dry conditions, meaning the bike gets wet when from washing it more than the riding. Now looking at full rebuild with new nipples, and quite possibly new spokes. Waiting for reply from elite service/warranty to see if they are going to send me new spokes and nipples.
Use brass spoke nipples with carbon rims. Aluminum has a redox reaction with carbon that causes the nipples to corrode, weaken and the heads eventually pop off inside the rim. This may take a few years, but it will happen.
@@Alan1688-g9l maybe, but isn't review supposed to verify, or at least mention it? Finally, I can check everything on the manufacturer's website, including users opinions...
hookless rims and rubbish warranty compared to other carbon wheels. I run ex 471 and DT Swiss 240s without any issues. Would only get carbon wheels with a lifetime warranty like Santa Cruz reserve. Bit harsh calling people idiots just cause they choose high engagement hubs.
Many carbon wheels are now hookless, including Reserve wheels. Yes, Reserve wheels have a lifetime warranty and no weight limit, but for 3 times the price of Elite wheels.
People who hate noisy freehubs are like vegans. Everyone knows about their opinion cos they have an intrinsic desire to tell everyone all about it. Including like 12 reasons why all others are so wrong for liking noisy freehubs / meat.
I don't care for "killer bee" free hub sounds either, but, "were here first"? I pretty sure the penny-farthing bicycle was also "here first", but I'm not trading in my bike for one, no matter how traditional they are ;) @@PeakTorque
that title lmao
I expect scandals & deception, the theme is misleading...
I agree with you about noisy freehubs
Nice review. Covers more aspects of wheels than I could imagine. Not trying to sound like an advert, but Elite Wheels now offers their Gnar Trail wheels, with their "DT-Style" ratchet hub. They're about $100 cheaper than the "killer bee" high engagement hub. I ordered mine a couple days ago.
That bike is so slack, it looks broken.
lol... but yea it's slack :)
What's the details on the bar bag? company?
It looks like the bar bag is a VFV FCS F3 Handlebar Bikepacking Bag. I tried to post a link, but I think UA-cam killed it.
Like you, I prefer a quiet bike. Lube the pawls and engagement ring with Dumonde Pro-X freehub grease. It makes my I9 hydra hub nearly silent. AND, I used the same lube on my road bike Elite D40 wheelset hub and it too is way quieter. Cool thing is, as the grease degrades the hub gets louder and you know it's time to service again.
3:04 😄Exactly what they sound like! I prefer the low noise of low end shimano hubs with two pawls.
High engagement hubs and O Chain “circle of idiocy” 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
😁
I can you please link the bar bag? I can’t find “Voice Cycling”
I don't agree that higher POE means higher pedal kick on FS bike. It means more often pedal kick, because low POE means some kicks disappeare in the free stroke between engagement points, but those, which are timed exactly in the engagement point of the hub, are exactly as strong as on high POE hub. So high POE means more pedal kicks, not stronger pedal kicks. I think for me would be more pleasant, if i got the same "kick-behavior" from each rear compression - which means it's transparent. Not like some compressions randomly kick and some don't - which is what low POE means.
Yep, spot on. More often, i should have said.
I much prefer higher POE for climbing, but really dislike the feeling of getting hung up that the kickback gives. In 30-52t with 36 POE, I have 17.3 degrees of freedom at the crank, which I find undermines my confidence. I do wonder if a higher POE, combined with a cush drive would give the speed of engagement I'm after whilst damping the kick back. I also feel like there is much higher inertia behind the engagement with a lower POE, so although the components in lower POE are larger, they're also shock loaded more than they would be in a higher POE system.
I once loathed the idea of an o-chain, but it does seem to have a niche use case. Definitely not a niche that is worth spending nearly £400 to experiment with, though 😂
I had no problems with damaging my rims since I started using inserts. You're certainly sending it harder than me tho
Are the pawls offset? That is, do all eight engage at the same time? My Hyper Lun wheels (which sound like a squadron of mosquitoes) use six pawls and three are slightly offset. I removed the set of three offset pawls and the sound was greatly reduced. Have been riding this set up for about 18 months and haven't noticed any engagement problems.
Also, if I'm out in nature, I don't want a swarm of angry bees in my ears whenever I want to coast. I want to hear nature, not my freehub
gonna have to pedal then =)
Great review. Freehub sound is a dealbreaker for me unfortunately.
More info on the bag please!
We need to get you a set of HED wheels
Onyx hubs have the highest points of engagement and are instant engagement. So these are 3rd...
💸
High engagement is only for trials, slopestyle etc.
Instant sub for the real talk - Even if I refuse to treat myself as much as you do. I'm sure the wheels are worth it, but I ride my already overkill carbon full sus specialized so seldom, it's better to donate the cash...
Can you donate me the cash? 😁
I need some Carbon wheels for my Stumpjumper Carbon Comp. I think my wheelset is over 4.2 Kg's and my frame with the rear shock is 2.2Kg 😅
I really thought the title was gonna end in “intern” but “foreign policy” is pretty good too
I'm with you on noisy freehubs. I do not like them. I packed my DT Swiss freehub on my mountain bike with grease to quiet it down.
I think my favorite rear mtb hub I've ridden is an Onyx Vesper. Silent. The only sound I want to hear is the tires on the trail.
Be careful packing star ratchets with too much grease - if they slip it'll hurt. And it can ruin the teeth!
@@PeakTorque Thanks for the tip! I did find that if I had too much in there, it slipped, as you warned. The difference between slipping and working perfectly is pretty small. I was able to find a happy medium. :)
Great vid improved only with the high octane sign off! :D
love the title
got 3 road wheel sets by now (plus one gravel for a friend) super happy. one marvel from their website with dt swiss and 2 aliexpress ENT wheelsets. value for money is insane
Why the difference in naming on their website Vs AliExpress?
@@geeeforce they sell different wheels ... even though the marvel and ENT rims look very similar, price difference and probably general specs
Shame they’re not built correctly…
I agree and will add another point: more points of engagement = smaller parts (pawls & ratchet teeth) = faster wear = shorter lifespan. Especially now that pawls are often made of alloy rather than steel like they used to be in days of yore. Ask me how I know
If only one pair of pawls are engaged at a time, then a pair is enough to transmit the pedalling force. If thats true and you want to feel less like a dickhead, then why not hoick out the other pawls and just leave one pair?
What hubs would you recommend for a quiet road wheel?
Dura ace hub! Very quiet. Most nowadays are really loud and annoying. Even dt240 get noisy after a few hundred kms
and for MTB ?
@@PeakTorque
Really like my Elite Pro 33, except for the fact they put them together with no anti-seize compound on the spoke threads, resulting in the nipples seizing and/or corroding, and that’s riding XC in predominantly dry conditions, meaning the bike gets wet when from washing it more than the riding. Now looking at full rebuild with new nipples, and quite possibly new spokes. Waiting for reply from elite service/warranty to see if they are going to send me new spokes and nipples.
Good point actually. I have mentioned this to them before
Are the nipples brass or alloy?
Use brass spoke nipples with carbon rims. Aluminum has a redox reaction with carbon that causes the nipples to corrode, weaken and the heads eventually pop off inside the rim. This may take a few years, but it will happen.
@@michaelclements4664 Yea, probably why the offer 3 year Warranty and not more. Still worth it if you ask me for that price and quali.
Numbs one !
What about bearings? Their sizes, number, sealing? Or fit tolerance? Spare parts for hub? Documentation with spoke tension are provided?
I think you can ask elitewheels, they have very detailed information in the article.
@@Alan1688-g9l maybe, but isn't review supposed to verify, or at least mention it? Finally, I can check everything on the manufacturer's website, including users opinions...
I'm too stupid and wreckless for carbon wheels, I'd rather have people think I'm poor than being skinned buying wheels 😂
The important thing about cycling is to have fun, right?
@@Alan1688-g9l exactly random UA-cam user (:
@@Alan1688-g9lno, no that's forbidden 😅
Can you remove 2 pair of pawls and make it quieter this way?
You could indeed
That front fender is🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
Thoughts on hookless rim?
2:44 LOL
hookless rims and rubbish warranty compared to other carbon wheels. I run ex 471 and DT Swiss 240s without any issues. Would only get carbon wheels with a lifetime warranty like Santa Cruz reserve. Bit harsh calling people idiots just cause they choose high engagement hubs.
Hi engagement hubs and ochains* :) all just banter. I've already damaged by brand new 541 after one weekend! Horses for courses I guess.
I think he's just pushing buttons
@@glennoc8585 Whatever you do *do not press the red one it will*
Many carbon wheels are now hookless, including Reserve wheels. Yes, Reserve wheels have a lifetime warranty and no weight limit, but for 3 times the price of Elite wheels.
Having clear paint over carbon is dumb. Just lets the carbon degrade faster. Never understood the logic
Can you elaborate? I'm thinking that a UV clear boat can only be of benefit to epoxy
@@glennoc8585 i mean having opaque paint instead of clear
People who hate noisy freehubs are like vegans. Everyone knows about their opinion cos they have an intrinsic desire to tell everyone all about it. Including like 12 reasons why all others are so wrong for liking noisy freehubs / meat.
Disagree. Normal volume freehubs were here first, so it's traditional. Veganism was a recent fad.
I don't care for "killer bee" free hub sounds either, but, "were here first"? I pretty sure the penny-farthing bicycle was also "here first", but I'm not trading in my bike for one, no matter how traditional they are ;) @@PeakTorque
Are you the guy who rides with a speaker in the woods too?
Noist hubs are annoying too.