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Did you mean to include Terraria in a statement ending with "in the last year or so" because, ya know, it might lead people to believe Terraria is a new phenomenon, when it's actually quite old by the current metric.
@@ArchitectofGames Out of curiosity, what is your opinion on the fusion of RTS and FPS? I noticed you didn't mention any examples of those and it doesn't seem to fit with your idea of focusing on elements shared between the genres as neither RTS nor FPS really share any characteristics -- which I think often leads to the general opinion that such a fusion will always be unsuccessful or less than the sum of its parts. Edit: I'm also curious as to how you would have expanded on Assassin's Creed implementation of RPG mechanics?
Look, you're a smart dude, but I don't think I can respect you after what you said about the toy bow of base Prey. It triggers the explody ball things and their sacks, opens doors, AND makes squeaky sounds.
I think his overall point was that the toy bow wasn't useful in base prey because playing base prey with the overall methods the toy bow is designed to enable is a much less effective or efficient method of playing the game, and thus it sucks as a tool for it's unfortunately placed environment, rather than the bow itself just generally being a piece of crap.
Its great in the early game, but I'm currently doing a New Game+ run (normal dificulty), and haven't touched the bowcaster ever since I got into the psychotronics morgue. Same goes for all the grenades except the recicler, and many of the typhon neuromods. Hell, unless I'm choosing to fight a Nightmare escorted by a group of other typhon, I find that the human neuromods + a shotgun or q-beam is quite enough in most scenarios. The other options might be fun to use, but I have to force myself to use them since the game doesn't demand you do.
I think the biggest mistake you can make is to make a game with the mindset, "Okay, this game is one genre and that's it." Genres are better as organizational devices than hard barriers for your design. Don't set out to make an action game, or a puzzle game, or an adventure game. Set out to make a game that does this, that, and the other thing, and then decide what genre it belongs to.
Being too ambitious with a project is another way that makes a game fail. If you limit yourself with a desired genre or two, and then decide the "this and thats," the project can be more focused.
Stardew genuinely has "metroidvania" elements. Abilities that you unlock over a span of time, and parts of the world that you only gain access to with those abilities and over time
Games can be "edible" once everyone has a computer directly connected to their brains. You wouldn't really eat anything, but creating a sensorial illusion is technically possible
You glossed over Huniepop as a joke, but it's a really solid implementation of the kind of genre fusion you're discussing here. I think the key is that they took the traditional dating sim mechanics of gift giving and answering girls' multiple choice questions and recontextualized them to support the puzzle game side by making them feed into a really satisfying resource loop that upgrades your ability to complete harder and harder puzzle levels ("dates"). I've got nothing but respect for what they accomplished with that game, and I would even if I didn't like dating sims.
Great video! I have a couple small critiques though. 1. I felt that saying Katana Zero was a mixture of two separate gameplay styles was a bit of a stretch because the conversations overall are inconsequential. It’s like saying that Furi is half action game and half exploration game due to the walking sections between bosses. 2. Prey isn’t just alright. It’s great! 😂
@peterson shelly RPG and porn game work suprisingly well together. Being rewarded with porn is actually a great way to not have to give the player some shiny loot for everything they do and can allow to build things like sidequests into a game without breaking the balance.
Well,giving porn elements to a well made lighthearted RPG world seem to be a perfect combo ,quite frankly. It add more layers to everything and doesn't need to be too dark, while being free to touch spicier themes,being already considered porn,also it has a particular feeling of "conquest"to it.
@@Laezar1 There was that one Japanese rpg where they added dating sim elements (kinda like Dragon Age) but once you got together with the love interest, they fast forwarded to the next generation, and their offspring was now the playable character who got to do a new set of quests and romance a new set of companions, and it continued...
I'm always confused when people use (dark) chocolate and chili as an example for weird combinations. I mean, the aztecs put chili in their "xocolatl" (cocoa drink), chocolate belongs in chili con carne and probably every chocolate manufacturer has at least one chili-chocolate variant.
Interesting example of that happening - Fallout 4 and Dragon Quest Builders both merge a survival crafting game and an RPG, because both RPG and minecraft-likes allow players to express themselves through their choices - in RPG, roleplaying choices like picking a class, party, morality, dialogue and equipment - and in survival crafters, ability to build creations.
Honestly porn games get a bad rap. Sure, terrible ones that are little more than a collection of naughty pictures with an already existing game slapped on are a dime a dozen, but good design is just as present and just as important in H-games as in any other genre. I mean heck, the whole Fate/ franchise started with an adult visual novel.
@@Alchemyst326 One of my favorite series ever is porn. I love the Rance games.
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Huniepop is definitely the best match 3 game in history of match 3 games. Also probably the best fully voiced English language dating sim. Actually how many are there even? It's a 10/10 hit, winning at multiple genres at once.
really? I got the game all excited... and I couldn't even begin. The plot setup was entirely too hokey and contrived and just one minute in, I already absolutely could not relate to the player character in any way. I love dating sims, but I could tell right away that its inclusion in that game was just a thin excuse for medium quality anime pinup.
I replayed it, mirror, and puzzle quest 2 in quick succession and it definately meshed systems better than the other 2. Mirror is definately the crappier porn game in terms of content and gameplay
Yeah, and playing those three together showed how well some games hit those notes and how poorly others can. I took years to beat pq2 Beat mirror in a week And have done several runs of hp to get its achievements. One thing that hit me was that a bunch of random stories in mirror and an unengaging overworld in pq2 make them unappealing to retread. Mirror's structure could have been improved if you wrote it as an anthology by the narrator, kind of like heavy metal or a porntastic illead
Sanctum and Sanctum 2 are my favorite games of all time. The emphasis on casual FPS, deep Tower defense, with beautiful graphics and story elements (mostly in 2) really cinches it for me. Great episode!
I'd love a live video of them watching trailers at E3 together or trying out different games on a stream and commenting on interesting (and stupid) design choices
I did hope HuniePop would get a mention, but I'd say it's a bit more interesting than how you put it 😆 Okay, I get it, to each their own, and this is UA-cam so I understand not wanting to spend much time on an adult game and risk censorship. HuniePop works because it's an entertaining game to play even with its erotic content entirely removed. Not exactly an achievement worth praising, but it still puts it above most crappy porn games, which only include shallow gameplay in order to build up sexual tension before revealing explicit content. HuniePop is more than porn, and its why it managed to reach the mainstream audience. But the fusion of genre in HuniePop works because each portion of the game rewards you with something you need in the next. Playing the puzzles gives you cash which you can use in the dating sim to offer gifts and food. Playing the dating sim rewards you with hunie points which can be used to improve your stats and get items for the puzzle game. Meanwhile a game series like Kingdom Hearts has Winnie the Pooh minigame segments and spaceship battles that feel completely unrelated to the main game.
@@KoylTrane Oh sure, the game is full of qualities, but I was trying to keep my comment short by focusing just on the intricacies of the genre fusion :)
I disagree that Katana zero is a genre mashup yes its an action platformer that has story but its not like having story is a separate game genre its just not commonly done in the action platformer space. Edit: Wish you wouldn't have speed up this video it feels like a solid concept but this video feels like you just throw a bunch of examples of games at us and dont spend enough time talking about the concept in a more abstract form.
Well you see, writing a good in depth video takes time and effort and he didn't want to spend it Besides it would make a video longer and some people might not want to watch a long video
He uses genre to describe dialogue in games, which he also does for the Mass Effect example at the beginning and I'm still wondering how that's a genre.
@@donaldbaird7849 I'm not saying that's a good excuse, I'm just explaining why he probably didn't do as in depth video as OP wanted More views for less effort
Im really just here to make sure people are defending Huniepop, the god tier of match three games. You can't tell me it is anything less you brilliant bastard.
Prey, the 2017 original was great for me, though. Yes, it got a bit repetitive towards the end, but I'm used to the majority of games that also do that. Prey Mooncrash wasn't great. The Pathos station was less interesting to explore than Talos I, and the gameplay and exploration were fun at the first two runs, after which I knew the whole map. Then I had to do the chore of cleaning up all the tasks to complete the game, and just occasionally getting new bits of story. I died only once, when I decided to push off the escape until the final, 5th wave. The original was unique and felt genuinely amazing at first, then cozy and comfortable till the end. It felt like a good immersive sim with all the little details about the world, individual crew members, their activities, its differing environments, the whole Metroidvania element, and the vibe never died.
I haven't played it, but the way it was described... I thought the map changes each time? [edit] oh I see, you didn't die. Yeah that changes things, or rather, it doesn't.
That part of the video damn near offended me. Prey is IMO the best Immersive Sim out there, and pretty much no game is improved by being more rogue-like. I'm sick of indie devs mixing this genre and I firmly believe it is done so they don't have to put the effort in for handcrafted levels. It's the cheapest, easiest way to get a game out there and they can put "100's of hours of playtime" as a selling point.
Mooncrash was great for me, and I loved the original game as well; This may be because I never touched any Typhon abilities in my main run of Prey, so being able to discover what my guys can do in Mooncrash was awesome. And the Psiblade is just a lightsaber but better. It was so satisfying obliterating a Moonshark with one the first time I got it.
The important thing, like it always is in pretty much every game design topic, is to think about the experience you're trying to create. If you don't have a better answer than the experience of playing mediocre knockoffs of several better games, you should rethink your design. For example, Enter the Gungeon works because it's a frantic run-and-gun bullet hell, and the roguelike elements really add to it because they turn every fight into a high-stakes challenge due to the nonregenerating health. I might not be worried that this particular bullet-kin is actually going to kill me, but I still put every ounce of focus into fighting it because if I lose a half-heart now that means I can afford one less mistake when I'm fighting the stage boss.
From the strategy side of things Stellaris is a good example of the issue of crossing 4x and grand strategy. In order for 4x timescale you have to limit the amount of variables and have them grow predictably and manageably, for processing reasons and willing to play reasons, however grand strategy complexity growing exponentially on a 4x scale may have good systems, it doesn't balance into a game that doesn't become a slog either due to lag from so much being processed, or finalizing your World conquest.
Yeah, but genre fusion aside, writing moral heroes who go around killing thousands of people just to find some loot and level up skills is nothing new on RPGs ^^;
@@Laezar1 You don't need to be good at rythm games to be good at Necrodrancer Because I am and I still suck at it :D Rythm games are pretty straigh forward while Necrodancer is pretty much about learning how to deal with everything
From my point of view, it being a metroidvania makes somewhat sense. Early in the game, you’re main goal is to complete the community center. You gain tools (I.e the fishing rod from Willy) to finish each bundle and when you do, you unlock new areas (I.e the desert and greenhouse). Even outside of that, there are aspects of metroidvania in other parts of the game. Like unlocking the sewers after donating a certain amount of artifacts or getting Stardrops to get more energy in order to make your life easier.
cel I understand what you are going for, but there are some things that say otherwise, the most notable being, that it isn’t a platformer. Hyper light drifter isn’t a metroidvania, but it’s still closer to metroidvania than stardew valley. Also yes, I have played both of those games
@@Haarunen well, i don't really think all metroidvanias have to be platformers. Besides, the video is talking about genre fusions, so we could argue that Stardew Valley is a fusion of a farming sim, RPG, and metroidvania.
cel Fare point, but there are some other things too, such as the fact that most of the abilities you don’t need in the game, but to make it easier, and the ones that you need you get during the first few days, as a form of tutorial. Also, there isn’t a goal or an ending in the game. Instead there are objectives in the game that the player can do, if they so choose, a few examples: the community center, any quests and getting the statue of perfection. Also, I’m not saying that your opinion is wrong, I’m just explaining why I don’t think the same way
@@Haarunen eh, ok i can see your point, Stardew valley isn't a true metroidvania but the progression does have some espects of it. It's just that it's not as extreme as like in Metroid games where you're basically stuck until you get a certain item.
I've never thought about genre mashing quite the way you're describing and I think it's a great way to put it: looking for what genres have in common rather than looking at how they're different. I love food analogies when I'm designing game elements, it's like this feeling of "hey, this game element doesn't quite match that other one I'm intending to use... on the other hand this other mechanic might suit just what I need!", it often does feel like adding spice, or adding an element to a plate or even adding a whole side dish to the meal you're serving. There are elements that thrive in certain environments and others that are either dismissable or downright counterproductive. Thanks for the video :D
2:53 round 1 FIGHT! The most exploration is the caves, but everything is just a hub world, with extensions of hub world a shop and a new fishing spot or other convinence. Besides that is the desert which has more stuff to unlock, and a shop. It's all quests, shops and extensions (that you unlock for...a shop.) when you disect it and take away the fun parts, which aren't related to metroidvania.
I completely agree with you with the Assassin's Creed thing. I really loved AC1 and 2. AC1 was the most "game-like" and not as immersive as the later titles, but it felt like a proper assassination puzzle. You needed to learn and clear routes, guard locations, etc., to make your assassinations easier. You needed to learn how and when to run and hide. AC2 was also mostly like that, with more complex mechanics, including really encouraging you to brush up on combat skills since they're so fun to use, to the detriment of the stealth/assassin play style. In AC: Brotherhood though, you felt less like an assassin as you actually became a commander of assassins instead. The mechanics were fun at first but I personally felt like I was missing the thrill and satisfaction of doing a clean assassination, or at least being able to escape properly. Because most of the time, fighting and calling for reinforcements was much easier than running and hiding.
Though I agree with and like the argument you present in this video as to how genre-fusions tend to come about in using similarities between genres to emphasize certain aspects of fun. I think the reverse also works in this case too -- which you even seem to accidentally provide an example of with your example of Sanctum 2. Neither Tower-Defense nor FPS have anything really in common, however it works perfectly as a result of FPS largely lacking a sense of obvious strategy and tactics on a single-player level and tower defense lacking any action on the players part during the attack phase. Thus, by combining the two, the developer provides something to do at all times of play that consume the players attention and engage them in what is an enjoyable activity. Conversely, as someone who enjoys the concept of, the FPS/RTS I think often fails as a result of both FPS and RTS having a lot of action during most levels of play. As a result they struggle to compliment each other because their differences in control and perspective means that their are no similarities to emphasize, while their differences can't really be played off separately to the same effect as with Sanctum 2's FPS/Tower-Defense.
One very good example of this for me is the Rune Factory series. The mix of farming sim gameplay combined with an action rpg works really well, and i loved how the two gameplays complemented each other seamlessly.
when you mentioned puzzle games that deal with perspective at around 11:00 I immediately thought of the witness, so glad it was the next thing to show up on screen, seriously underrated game
1:53 Hmm... I thought the gunplay and story in Mass Effect made for a pretty good mix. Also, doesn't almost every RPG ever have tones of mook characters like bandits and monsters that the player kills all the time? The context of 'these are roving criminals attacking people on the roads' is what is key here. Though, I do appreciate games that allow you to capture or subdue enemies rather than kill them... Especially when you get to put them all up into a big sleepy puppy pile.
I like to think about the roguelite and modern-open-world "genres" more as genre modifiers than as separate genres in and of themselves. When it comes to the core gameplay, Slay the Spire has much more in common with Dominion or Clank! than it does FTL or Binding of Isaac. Same with Infamous and games like DQ:I or Lightning Returns, they don't really share much in terms of what the gameplay and narrative drive looks like. Infamous is much closer to a Zelda-style Action Adventure than either those kinds of RPGs. These kinds of half-genres are really interesting, especially because they've gotten latched onto to such a degree, both by consumers and developers. There's really no end to what genre you can modify with a sandboxy theme park full of mini activities, or with smaller individual runs and partial progression within each reset to scratch. It's really amazing how new genre and genre types emerge, and I can't wait to see what kind of twist on a couple of ideas we'll see turn into it's own genre with multitudes of variations. Now, I feel like playing a bit of defender's quest, a Tower Defense with chunky RPG mechanics as a side-dish.
I'll have you know that HuniePop has really fun writing and gave me many a chuckle while playing it. One of those rare "lewd" games that I didn't actually use for the "intended purpose" and just enjoyed the banter.
I loved how Undertale fused turn based combat with bullet hell and the "dating sim" style dialogue. I don't like any of these 3 genres, but I loved Undertale's combat.
Rogue Star Rescue is a genre fusion game i found recently-ish. It's a fusion of Enter The Gungeon style roguelikes, tower defense, and some survival elements (The "towers" you have for the tower defense are limited, and you have to spend money in the shops to buy more of them) They aren't combined too heavily, as the tower defense portions only make up the equivalent of a boss room, but it does work rather well. RPG levelling mechanics got added a couple of updates ago, which im not as big of a fan of, but they're fine - which makes this an axample of a good fusion and a less good fusion in one game
one fun genre fusion i've found is simply called "demon". rouge-like, but with the monster collection and party management of a pokemon style game. all the enemies can be tamed and added to your roster, but you're limited to only 6.
@@timeilers5612 demon.ferretdev.org/devblog/ lets how youtube allows me to post the link. its in development but it is publicly available to everyone. i usually could find it by searching "demon game"
PREY was "alright" ? What ? It's the best modern immersive sim imo (until Cyberpunk 2077 comes out) I agree that Mooncrash is fantastic and probably one of the most genius genre mash-ups out there, but the base game is also fantastic in its own right, not just as a template upon which Mooncrash was built. The GLOO Cannon by itlsef deserves an award. Now, I don't assume malicious intent here, but did you do this on purpose to downplay PREY's achievement so that you could uplift Mooncrash for the sake of argument ?
9:10 lol... good video (I really enjoy the wide spectrum of game genres/types that you pull from for your content - as apposed to always only talking about two or three styles of game).
I'm working on a bit of a genre fusion right now. It's a mix of the old retro game Asteroids, so a space shooter? and some rogue-like elements/RPG elements. Timely video, Adam!
Completely unrelated to the topic, but I just recently picked up Toki Tori 2+ after your talked about it in an older video, and I'll never cease to be amazed by your brilliant choice in games.
I disagree with what you said about Huniepop. I originally got it as a joke among my friends, but found myself genuinely enjoying the gameplay. It adds some new aspects to the actual match 3 part, but outside of that, interacting with the characters and using your money wisely on gifts and food is actually quite fun. It doesn't just straight up give you porn and throw it in your face. You have to be able to win the match 3 first, which often requires you to have managed your money and other resources well. The actual porn doesn't make up that much of the game, and I think the whole game comes together really nicely.
Some pervy games are waaay better than they deserve to be. I'd take the ninja boob game Senran Kagura's massive beat'em'up gameplay over almost any "Warriors" game for example.
@@Funkopedia Actually, it makes me thing in how it makes you understand the "Power Ranger logic". Is not all that strategic, but staying in your non-powered form until the situation is critical allows you for a bigger health pool, just like the rangers always started the fights without their suits/weapons despite seeming like there was no point to it.
Game genres are innately weird when compared to the notion of a genre. Compare a game genre vs a film genre vs a music genre, and ask yourself if the way we use it with games really makes sense... We seem to have made the notion of a 'genre' an entirely mechanical thing with games... Why is that, exactly? Plus edge cases make that pretty confusing. Doom and Portal share the majority of their core mechanics, yet they are totally different games both thematically and to actually play. Your average JRPG overlaps more than 90% in just about everything with the Legend of Zelda, yet that isn't considered an RPG (anymore. Go dig up some historical reviews and tell me what it says.) To double down on that particular example, what makes Terranigma and Secret of Mana Action RPG's, while A link to the Past is action Adventure? All 3 have a lot of narrative elements. Structural design involving an overworld and dungeons, battles that involve moving around the screen trying to hit enemies by using a weapon bound to a button... The only real distinction in terms of presentation and gameplay mechanics is that Terranigma and Secret of Mana gate progress using level systems and stats that you raise by fighting, while Zelda gates progression entirely using items. (even though say, gaining a heart piece after a boss fight has functionally roughly the same implications as gaining HP by leveling up after the fight.). Is that REALLY all it takes to turn otherwise very similar games into a completely different genre? It's things like that that make me question the sanity of the very idea of game genres...
A great mashup that I've seen is Trillion: God of Destruction, which combines elements of a roguelike RPG with a traditional dating/raising-sim. The combination works suprisingly well. The premise is raising the heroines for sequential deadly battle against an incredibly powerful monster threatening the world. The game's rpg elements are such that a character's strength is tied to the the scenes and interactions viewed, encouraging the player to form an emotional attachment to each heroine for the best chance of success in spite of the threat of permadeath. The mechanic also contributes to the rpg aspect making each run or death feel especially meaningful and really nailing the progression aspect of a roguelike.
Great video :) some examples that come to mind of how fusing genres that resulted in new genres and becoming huge successes would be how DOTA came about from warcraft modding, which sort of simplified real time strategy and combined it with fighting games in a way. Or how how Auto chess came about, simplifying the real time strategy formula even further but combining it with a rogue like-ish card game. You could even say the same about battle royales and such, Started off as Military Simulation in ARMA 2, then modded and fused into Zombie Survival simulation with DayZ, and ultimitely simplifying that formula further by removing the zombies and focusing on looting and player engagement.
Minus the bleach and with regular milk you can actually turn that into a good meal. Wasabi tastes great on a grilled rare steak which veal is pretty similar to. The milk is just used to thicken and creamify a sauce made by deglazing the leftover caramelized grilled veal bits with some kind of wine.
Hey Adam, I just wanted to say ive been subbe a bit over a year now, and youve grown a lot. I know you have taken inspiration from Mark Brown in your early days and adapted your own stye, but in my opinion, youve surpassed him as a quality game design analyzer. youre more in touch with the gaming community's mindset and do an excellent job of showcasing indie titles.
I think special mention should go to THUMPER, a game that essentially is a combination between the Rhythm and Horror game genres. It, like the chili/chocolate thing you mentioned earlier, doesn't seem like something that would work, but it somehow does. THUMPER's gameplay is based around quick reactions and close-to-perfect accurate timing (There is some leeway... unless you want an A+ rank.), resulting in an intense experience as you race down the track at immense speeds, listening to the harsh Industrial soundtrack, making sure that you avoid getting a head-on collision in the process. ...of course, the Lovecraft influences certainly don't hurt either.
Hmm... perhaps something similar to Battle Chef Brigade, where harvesting a crop involves fighting them, and you can wait longer or have a larger crop for more money, but then the fight vecomes harder...
Talking about Sanctum being a mix of “shooter” and Tower Defense.. Look up “Dungeon Defenders”, which I’d argue goes a step even further with that by dialing the shooter elements back *just slightly,* and adding RPG to the mix as well; the result is a game with multiple classes, each with their own weapons and defenses, and where both you *and* your defenses can become progressively stronger as you continue to play the game.
Factorio is a good mix of fear and peacefulness lol. It (the native monsters) can keep you on your toes if you are risky but you have a lot of freedom to avoid the threats entirely without constant war or even confrontation outside of your comfort zone. You can build less stinky creations, recycle, explore optimizations, or if you want to, even bring the battle to your enemy and free up a portion of the map for some more resources. It's like if minecraft went all in on the progression of ores from iron to diamond with redstone automation as the core instead of being mostly exploration plus leggos.
Ok, so this video kind of raises the question of what the heck is actually a pure Roguelike? Like all of the examples you might list wouldn't count if you choose to define Roguelike as "permanent death and random generation" - that's not enough of a foundation to build a game around unless you're placing it in some sort of framework like a platformer, bullet-hell, or (what it actually is) a grid-based, turn-based movement system. Spelunky is a fusion between a Roguelike and platformer, BOI is a fusion between a Roguelike and a twinstick shooter (and legend of zelda or something) The way I see it, games like DCSS, Angband, Cogmind, Caves of Qud, and so on *are* pure Roguelikes, while something like BOI is a fusion of a Roguelike and something else. That doesn't mean it should be called a Roguelike though, hence the term roguelite was invented (by the developers of Rogue Legacy) to describe games which fuse Roguelikes with other stuff. Now I'm not saying the Berlin Interpretation is the right way to properly define Roguelikes, but it at least describes something that is actually a complete enough game that pure Roguelikes can exist
I'm tempted to say that maybe the best advice here would be to incorporate elements of other genras as they are needed for your game, and not as a gimick? Concept comes first sort of deal? Haven't tryied this philosophy out in practice (yet), but as a gamer that's the sense I get from well made fusion games.
I’ve got a genre fusion: A Third Person Shooter with Melee Combat. Halo + Warframe + Infamous A Marine Private crash lands on an unknown planet and finds alien armor that gives him superpowers and he fights all three sci-fi villain archetypes: Fascist Military (Hellgast), Tech Aliens (Covenant), Hive Swarm (Zerg). Gameplay is Third Person shooter Combat with an energy rifle/sword with interchangeable firing and melee modes. You prioritize weaker enemies with regular shots while more unique and stronger enemies require more mixture of melee and ranged to take on. Plus you have grappling, telekinesis, cloaking and Riot shield powers to help you out. Plus there are creative boss fights that require reflexes but also tactical thinking to get an edge in battle. It’s a linear story with some side missions to get minor upgrades for weapons and abilities. Plus you also have choices for a branching story that is somewhere in between Black Ops 2 and Mass Effect. Sound like a good genre blend?
The Accidental Hipster Then perhaps the tech aliens can be space knights who only have bows, swords and shields and wizards and the hive swarm are space dragons. Sound cool?
The latest odd combination of ingredients that turns into something new and amazing that I've learned about was a salad made of 3 ingredients: watermelon, feta and fresh mint. Seriously, try it.
I find as I get older my favorite games trend toward roguelikes. I like how tangible the rewards feel to my experience. Expecting to die makes you realize that the experience is the reward
I really like how Monster Hunter is fusion of hack n slash and fighting games. And it makes sense for Capcom with their fighting game experience to have made it.
13:00 CAN BE an afterthought, you can even just make the best build and tank hits like a truck or go for one shots, barely any hand dexterity required; that's why i love dark souls: as long as you know what you're doing, no matter your skill level, you'll eventually find a way to come out on top.
How could he not have talked about crypt of the necrodancer? One of the only combinations of rogue like and rhythm games that fused the concepts perfectly
You have to build a boat ? "Have to" ? "Have" ... "to" No no no no good sir You see , boat building is not optional, it's not something you have to do , you can't take your time , dilly dally learn how you would build said boat. You MUST build a boat. Building a boat is all there is and you MUST do it :D
Damn, thanks Adam! This comes in a time, that couldn't be more perfect, as I'm on the brink of making a game that can only be described as a genre fusion. My artistic vision ,at least, describes a "Metroid-Vania" 2D style with some twists. The world is split into levels that are like small Metroid Vania games compressed, complete with secret pickups to find and optional Upgrades to snatch. This decision was made because there is a rather large narrative focus, not in a way that Metroid Fusion did it but integrated into the game itself. (With optional Lore for the cracks like me that like that stuff) How would that turn out? I give you an example: Because of the Narrative focus and the Level based design, I can do a lot of crazy things with it relatively easy. I have a blockout for a level that the player will break out of, causing some chaos along the way. He/She may find a few optional and necessary upgrades to progress or make him more powerful but the player can't reach all of them just yet. In a traditional Metroid-Vania game there's a fair bit of backtracking involved but with the Level based design, I can make things like "Branching Story Paths". In said Blockout, there is a Boss at the end, which the player can interact with in 2 ways. You can finish off the Enemy for good or basically incapacitate him for now and go on your Merry way. In this example, if you do finish him, you'll get some tech right away which will affect the difficulty of the next Level you'll get to in some way, making it feel like it is more complex than it actually is in a simple manner. If you decide to spare him, however, the Upgrade is lost on this part of the Story BUT the Enemy will go on a Rampage through the facility, destroying it and, once you come back to it at a later time, give you access to previously blocked off areas and Upgrades to even better Stuff. To top it all off I want the Combat to feel engaging and not just a part of "making the players journey more time consuming" but actually fun. The way I'm looking to achieve this in particular is by mixing it up with some Tropes found in Fighting Games or Beat 'em Ups and some RPG's. Giving the player, again, some choice about how he wants to tackle certain situations, in a way that I haven't seen in a Video Game yet. (For Example the player can get through the game by mashing Buttons eventually but will find a way to improve upon itself with certain combos that end in a sort of elemental strike that will be more effective against specific types of enemies. In my research I found spectacle fighters like Devil May Cry could be more engaging this way, without making it too complicated. Think of the Megaman Upgrades and effectiveness but on a more moment to moment basis. This seems like a huge feat for an Indie but I gathered up some motivated individuals to help me create this vision and ofc. I'm always looking to expanding that roster! Later down the road, once the project is in a presentable fashion (playtested prototypes and all) I will meet up with a consultant to discuss a way of funding this project to get it on to the market quicker. I thank everyone for reading this and of course if you have any questions or suggestions, let me know! :)
I would love to see a video of different ways to do assymetric multiplayer games. From games like Dead by daylight, where One guy is a near unstoppable killer, and everyone else needs to work together to avoid his wrath. to Evolve, where The 4 man hunter team can have a good chance against the powerful monster, then you get something called Spacelords where someone can invade a mission as an antagonist, but plays just like the regular 4 man team, but gets to use the enemy AI grunts, mission objectives, and even bosses to their advantage to stop the team.
I still heavily prefer the fps + rpg mix of the STALKER series over something like Borderlands. Instead of going the level-up-grindfest and bullet-sponge-enemies route, it only takes elements like the loot, the inventory management, having factions and quests etc and puts all of that into an immersive semi open-world with the gameplay being massively dependant on your personal skill and understanding of the world and its inhabitants. Especially one of the most recent bigger modding projects - Anomaly (currently on 1.5 Beta 2.4) - has had me absorbed in it for weeks now, even with me having played that series for 100s or maybe 1000s of hours throughout the years. If anyone wanna get back into this game, now is the perfect time~ Hell, it even runs on its own standalone 64bit version of the XRay engine.
If you're putting chocolate in your chili for 'richness' instead of just using black/turtle beans like a real boi, then you will never be the spiciest meatball. Chocolate belongs in brownies.
Want updates on what videos are coming out next? Well don't follow me on twitter because I hardly post, sorry. Sometimes I make weird hot takes so I guess that's something: twitter.com/Thefearalcarrot
I do give updates on Patreon though! If you fancy giving me some dosh you can stay up to date with all the latest AoG happenings! www.patreon.com/ArchitectofGames
Why are you playing huniepop?
@@uncledeez1964 N-No reason! It's for research!
Did you mean to include Terraria in a statement ending with "in the last year or so" because, ya know, it might lead people to believe Terraria is a new phenomenon, when it's actually quite old by the current metric.
Waaahh! It has actual graphics! It's not a *real* roguelike!
@@ArchitectofGames Out of curiosity, what is your opinion on the fusion of RTS and FPS? I noticed you didn't mention any examples of those and it doesn't seem to fit with your idea of focusing on elements shared between the genres as neither RTS nor FPS really share any characteristics -- which I think often leads to the general opinion that such a fusion will always be unsuccessful or less than the sum of its parts.
Edit: I'm also curious as to how you would have expanded on Assassin's Creed implementation of RPG mechanics?
Look, you're a smart dude, but I don't think I can respect you after what you said about the toy bow of base Prey. It triggers the explody ball things and their sacks, opens doors, AND makes squeaky sounds.
I didn't consider the squeaky sounds, you're right- I've been such a fool!
By far the best tool in the game.
I think his overall point was that the toy bow wasn't useful in base prey because playing base prey with the overall methods the toy bow is designed to enable is a much less effective or efficient method of playing the game, and thus it sucks as a tool for it's unfortunately placed environment, rather than the bow itself just generally being a piece of crap.
Its great in the early game, but I'm currently doing a New Game+ run (normal dificulty), and haven't touched the bowcaster ever since I got into the psychotronics morgue.
Same goes for all the grenades except the recicler, and many of the typhon neuromods. Hell, unless I'm choosing to fight a Nightmare escorted by a group of other typhon, I find that the human neuromods + a shotgun or q-beam is quite enough in most scenarios. The other options might be fun to use, but I have to force myself to use them since the game doesn't demand you do.
oh hey yes thank you, I hadn’t thought to use that to trigger cystoids (I’m like 75% through the game now though)
I think the biggest mistake you can make is to make a game with the mindset, "Okay, this game is one genre and that's it." Genres are better as organizational devices than hard barriers for your design. Don't set out to make an action game, or a puzzle game, or an adventure game. Set out to make a game that does this, that, and the other thing, and then decide what genre it belongs to.
This.
"
Genres are also great starting points
Being too ambitious with a project is another way that makes a game fail. If you limit yourself with a desired genre or two, and then decide the "this and thats," the project can be more focused.
@@ebbandfloatzel
Mass Effect is a wonderful example of that. Or at least it feels like that.
Can we expect a video on you expanding your thoughts on how Stardew Valley is a Metroidvania and how developers are gonna make games edible?
I genuinely want to know his reasoning there.
Stardew genuinely has "metroidvania" elements. Abilities that you unlock over a span of time, and parts of the world that you only gain access to with those abilities and over time
Games can be "edible" once everyone has a computer directly connected to their brains. You wouldn't really eat anything, but creating a sensorial illusion is technically possible
I will eat some chocolate with chilli now.
Edit: It´s actually not that bad.
Right!?
ikr
Adam Millard - The Architect of Games no i trid it i dident like it and i am blaming you
@@paddathurpadane6828 I accept the blame for this greatest of betrayals.
Don't forget to put cherries in here
You glossed over Huniepop as a joke, but it's a really solid implementation of the kind of genre fusion you're discussing here. I think the key is that they took the traditional dating sim mechanics of gift giving and answering girls' multiple choice questions and recontextualized them to support the puzzle game side by making them feed into a really satisfying resource loop that upgrades your ability to complete harder and harder puzzle levels ("dates"). I've got nothing but respect for what they accomplished with that game, and I would even if I didn't like dating sims.
Don't forget the anime titties.
@@gaelsdaddy2341 the two types of people
Great video! I have a couple small critiques though.
1. I felt that saying Katana Zero was a mixture of two separate gameplay styles was a bit of a stretch because the conversations overall are inconsequential. It’s like saying that Furi is half action game and half exploration game due to the walking sections between bosses.
2. Prey isn’t just alright. It’s great! 😂
The conversation choices can lead to 3 different endings in katana zero
i actually kind of think that visual novel hentai games and bejewled like puzzle games have a few thing in common with how the reward system works
@peterson shelly RPG and porn game work suprisingly well together. Being rewarded with porn is actually a great way to not have to give the player some shiny loot for everything they do and can allow to build things like sidequests into a game without breaking the balance.
@@Laezar1 are you talking about monster girl quest or i am the only one playing it
all y'all are wrong because if you wanna watch porn you just go and watch it, you don't need no bejeweled piece of shit to watch it
Well,giving porn elements to a well made lighthearted RPG world seem to be a perfect combo ,quite frankly. It add more layers to everything and doesn't need to be too dark, while being free to touch spicier themes,being already considered porn,also it has a particular feeling of "conquest"to it.
@@Laezar1 There was that one Japanese rpg where they added dating sim elements (kinda like Dragon Age) but once you got together with the love interest, they fast forwarded to the next generation, and their offspring was now the playable character who got to do a new set of quests and romance a new set of companions, and it continued...
I'm always confused when people use (dark) chocolate and chili as an example for weird combinations. I mean, the aztecs put chili in their "xocolatl" (cocoa drink), chocolate belongs in chili con carne and probably every chocolate manufacturer has at least one chili-chocolate variant.
@The Accidental Hipster thanks Mexico
Interesting example of that happening - Fallout 4 and Dragon Quest Builders both merge a survival crafting game and an RPG, because both RPG and minecraft-likes allow players to express themselves through their choices - in RPG, roleplaying choices like picking a class, party, morality, dialogue and equipment - and in survival crafters, ability to build creations.
Yeah! This is a great example, I've been meaning to give dragon quest builders a go actually
Hunniepop is a masterpiece and I won't let you convince me otherwise
Honey Select is where it's at
I replayed it after this video and realized the most effective way to successfully win a date is to conclude it with a pearl necklace
Honestly porn games get a bad rap. Sure, terrible ones that are little more than a collection of naughty pictures with an already existing game slapped on are a dime a dozen, but good design is just as present and just as important in H-games as in any other genre.
I mean heck, the whole Fate/ franchise started with an adult visual novel.
It's genuinely the most fun match-3 gameplay out there, even when you take away the porn there's a ton of fun to be had
@@Alchemyst326 One of my favorite series ever is porn. I love the Rance games.
Huniepop is definitely the best match 3 game in history of match 3 games.
Also probably the best fully voiced English language dating sim. Actually how many are there even?
It's a 10/10 hit, winning at multiple genres at once.
I was waiting for someone to say this, lel
really? I got the game all excited... and I couldn't even begin. The plot setup was entirely too hokey and contrived and just one minute in, I already absolutely could not relate to the player character in any way. I love dating sims, but I could tell right away that its inclusion in that game was just a thin excuse for medium quality anime pinup.
I replayed it, mirror, and puzzle quest 2 in quick succession and it definately meshed systems better than the other 2.
Mirror is definately the crappier porn game in terms of content and gameplay
Match 3 games and lewd games are pretty similar. They're both more about dopamine and spectacle than skill.
Yeah, and playing those three together showed how well some games hit those notes and how poorly others can.
I took years to beat pq2
Beat mirror in a week
And have done several runs of hp to get its achievements.
One thing that hit me was that a bunch of random stories in mirror and an unengaging overworld in pq2 make them unappealing to retread.
Mirror's structure could have been improved if you wrote it as an anthology by the narrator, kind of like heavy metal or a porntastic illead
Sanctum and Sanctum 2 are my favorite games of all time. The emphasis on casual FPS, deep Tower defense, with beautiful graphics and story elements (mostly in 2) really cinches it for me. Great episode!
Would be interesting you see what a GMTK and architect of games colab would look like...
I bet you they’d just make a fun as heck game. “Here’s how we upended the video game industry by developing a game the right way... you’re welcome”
so they aren't the same person?
/s
I'd love a live video of them watching trailers at E3 together or trying out different games on a stream and commenting on interesting (and stupid) design choices
They're both British, probably something involving tea and Dr Who...?
I did hope HuniePop would get a mention, but I'd say it's a bit more interesting than how you put it 😆 Okay, I get it, to each their own, and this is UA-cam so I understand not wanting to spend much time on an adult game and risk censorship.
HuniePop works because it's an entertaining game to play even with its erotic content entirely removed. Not exactly an achievement worth praising, but it still puts it above most crappy porn games, which only include shallow gameplay in order to build up sexual tension before revealing explicit content. HuniePop is more than porn, and its why it managed to reach the mainstream audience. But the fusion of genre in HuniePop works because each portion of the game rewards you with something you need in the next. Playing the puzzles gives you cash which you can use in the dating sim to offer gifts and food. Playing the dating sim rewards you with hunie points which can be used to improve your stats and get items for the puzzle game. Meanwhile a game series like Kingdom Hearts has Winnie the Pooh minigame segments and spaceship battles that feel completely unrelated to the main game.
You forgot to mention colorful cast with interesting personalities. Without them, game wouldn't be as enjoyable.
@@KoylTrane Oh sure, the game is full of qualities, but I was trying to keep my comment short by focusing just on the intricacies of the genre fusion :)
I disagree that Katana zero is a genre mashup yes its an action platformer that has story but its not like having story is a separate game genre its just not commonly done in the action platformer space.
Edit: Wish you wouldn't have speed up this video it feels like a solid concept but this video feels like you just throw a bunch of examples of games at us and dont spend enough time talking about the concept in a more abstract form.
Agreed.
Well you see, writing a good in depth video takes time and effort and he didn't want to spend it
Besides it would make a video longer and some people might not want to watch a long video
He uses genre to describe dialogue in games, which he also does for the Mass Effect example at the beginning and I'm still wondering how that's a genre.
@@sanny8716 Well that's a shitty excuse. Might as well let game companies repeatedly release unfinished games. It's the same logic
@@donaldbaird7849 I'm not saying that's a good excuse, I'm just explaining why he probably didn't do as in depth video as OP wanted
More views for less effort
You missed the MOST important part of an immersive sim: Carrying wrenches around.
Im really just here to make sure people are defending Huniepop, the god tier of match three games. You can't tell me it is anything less you brilliant bastard.
"FUCK YEAH"
-me, seeing an AM video show up in my notifications
Watching your channel is basically like curated videogame shopping.
Prey, the 2017 original was great for me, though. Yes, it got a bit repetitive towards the end, but I'm used to the majority of games that also do that.
Prey Mooncrash wasn't great. The Pathos station was less interesting to explore than Talos I, and the gameplay and exploration were fun at the first two runs, after which I knew the whole map. Then I had to do the chore of cleaning up all the tasks to complete the game, and just occasionally getting new bits of story. I died only once, when I decided to push off the escape until the final, 5th wave.
The original was unique and felt genuinely amazing at first, then cozy and comfortable till the end. It felt like a good immersive sim with all the little details about the world, individual crew members, their activities, its differing environments, the whole Metroidvania element, and the vibe never died.
I haven't played it, but the way it was described... I thought the map changes each time?
[edit] oh I see, you didn't die. Yeah that changes things, or rather, it doesn't.
I preferred the base game as well since Immersive Sim but Mooncrash was pretty fun too if you take it for what it is, a Roguelike
That part of the video damn near offended me. Prey is IMO the best Immersive Sim out there, and pretty much no game is improved by being more rogue-like. I'm sick of indie devs mixing this genre and I firmly believe it is done so they don't have to put the effort in for handcrafted levels. It's the cheapest, easiest way to get a game out there and they can put "100's of hours of playtime" as a selling point.
Mooncrash was great for me, and I loved the original game as well; This may be because I never touched any Typhon abilities in my main run of Prey, so being able to discover what my guys can do in Mooncrash was awesome.
And the Psiblade is just a lightsaber but better. It was so satisfying obliterating a Moonshark with one the first time I got it.
what i most loved about prey is how creative i had to be with taking out enemies because my first blind playtrough was on the hardest difficulty
The important thing, like it always is in pretty much every game design topic, is to think about the experience you're trying to create. If you don't have a better answer than the experience of playing mediocre knockoffs of several better games, you should rethink your design.
For example, Enter the Gungeon works because it's a frantic run-and-gun bullet hell, and the roguelike elements really add to it because they turn every fight into a high-stakes challenge due to the nonregenerating health. I might not be worried that this particular bullet-kin is actually going to kill me, but I still put every ounce of focus into fighting it because if I lose a half-heart now that means I can afford one less mistake when I'm fighting the stage boss.
IMO, Puzzle Pirates deserve some recognition for being a good mashup
Please stop hurting me so
YOU USED DISRUPTOR AMMO AGAINST AN ARMOURED OPPONENT AND CRYO AGAINST SHIELDS
PLEEEASE
NEVER
Profile pic sums up comment
I AM THE LAMP
From the strategy side of things Stellaris is a good example of the issue of crossing 4x and grand strategy. In order for 4x timescale you have to limit the amount of variables and have them grow predictably and manageably, for processing reasons and willing to play reasons, however grand strategy complexity growing exponentially on a 4x scale may have good systems, it doesn't balance into a game that doesn't become a slog either due to lag from so much being processed, or finalizing your World conquest.
I don't think the issue with MEs blend of genres is the fusion itself, but how it's executed.
@The Accidental Hipster mass effect
Yeah, but genre fusion aside, writing moral heroes who go around killing thousands of people just to find some loot and level up skills is nothing new on RPGs ^^;
One of my favorite genre fusion is Crypt of the Necrodancer. Roguelike with rhythm game sounds ridiculous but it works really well together.
Unless you are trash at rythm games like me xD I love this game, but damn I can't play it.
I was waiting for him to mention this and he never did. [Sadface]
@@Laezar1 You don't need to be good at rythm games to be good at Necrodrancer
Because I am and I still suck at it :D Rythm games are pretty straigh forward while Necrodancer is pretty much about learning how to deal with everything
Less rhythm, more puzzle. Think fast and move boldly, Laezar
Have you played Cadence of Hyrule? The addition of Zelda's item gathering and puzzles is fantastic.
I respect your opinion, but... why would someone consider stardew valley to be a metroidvania? I only want you to explain your thought proses.
From my point of view, it being a metroidvania makes somewhat sense. Early in the game, you’re main goal is to complete the community center. You gain tools (I.e the fishing rod from Willy) to finish each bundle and when you do, you unlock new areas (I.e the desert and greenhouse). Even outside of that, there are aspects of metroidvania in other parts of the game. Like unlocking the sewers after donating a certain amount of artifacts or getting Stardrops to get more energy in order to make your life easier.
cel I understand what you are going for, but there are some things that say otherwise, the most notable being, that it isn’t a platformer. Hyper light drifter isn’t a metroidvania, but it’s still closer to metroidvania than stardew valley. Also yes, I have played both of those games
@@Haarunen well, i don't really think all metroidvanias have to be platformers. Besides, the video is talking about genre fusions, so we could argue that Stardew Valley is a fusion of a farming sim, RPG, and metroidvania.
cel Fare point, but there are some other things too, such as the fact that most of the abilities you don’t need in the game, but to make it easier, and the ones that you need you get during the first few days, as a form of tutorial. Also, there isn’t a goal or an ending in the game. Instead there are objectives in the game that the player can do, if they so choose, a few examples: the community center, any quests and getting the statue of perfection. Also, I’m not saying that your opinion is wrong, I’m just explaining why I don’t think the same way
@@Haarunen eh, ok i can see your point, Stardew valley isn't a true metroidvania but the progression does have some espects of it. It's just that it's not as extreme as like in Metroid games where you're basically stuck until you get a certain item.
I've never thought about genre mashing quite the way you're describing and I think it's a great way to put it: looking for what genres have in common rather than looking at how they're different. I love food analogies when I'm designing game elements, it's like this feeling of "hey, this game element doesn't quite match that other one I'm intending to use... on the other hand this other mechanic might suit just what I need!", it often does feel like adding spice, or adding an element to a plate or even adding a whole side dish to the meal you're serving. There are elements that thrive in certain environments and others that are either dismissable or downright counterproductive. Thanks for the video :D
2:53 round 1 FIGHT! The most exploration is the caves, but everything is just a hub world, with extensions of hub world a shop and a new fishing spot or other convinence. Besides that is the desert which has more stuff to unlock, and a shop. It's all quests, shops and extensions (that you unlock for...a shop.) when you disect it and take away the fun parts, which aren't related to metroidvania.
I completely agree with you with the Assassin's Creed thing. I really loved AC1 and 2. AC1 was the most "game-like" and not as immersive as the later titles, but it felt like a proper assassination puzzle. You needed to learn and clear routes, guard locations, etc., to make your assassinations easier. You needed to learn how and when to run and hide. AC2 was also mostly like that, with more complex mechanics, including really encouraging you to brush up on combat skills since they're so fun to use, to the detriment of the stealth/assassin play style. In AC: Brotherhood though, you felt less like an assassin as you actually became a commander of assassins instead. The mechanics were fun at first but I personally felt like I was missing the thrill and satisfaction of doing a clean assassination, or at least being able to escape properly. Because most of the time, fighting and calling for reinforcements was much easier than running and hiding.
Though I agree with and like the argument you present in this video as to how genre-fusions tend to come about in using similarities between genres to emphasize certain aspects of fun. I think the reverse also works in this case too -- which you even seem to accidentally provide an example of with your example of Sanctum 2.
Neither Tower-Defense nor FPS have anything really in common, however it works perfectly as a result of FPS largely lacking a sense of obvious strategy and tactics on a single-player level and tower defense lacking any action on the players part during the attack phase. Thus, by combining the two, the developer provides something to do at all times of play that consume the players attention and engage them in what is an enjoyable activity.
Conversely, as someone who enjoys the concept of, the FPS/RTS I think often fails as a result of both FPS and RTS having a lot of action during most levels of play. As a result they struggle to compliment each other because their differences in control and perspective means that their are no similarities to emphasize, while their differences can't really be played off separately to the same effect as with Sanctum 2's FPS/Tower-Defense.
I am so glad you mentioned the masterpiece that is Huniepop.
One very good example of this for me is the Rune Factory series. The mix of farming sim gameplay combined with an action rpg works really well, and i loved how the two gameplays complemented each other seamlessly.
when you mentioned puzzle games that deal with perspective at around 11:00 I immediately thought of the witness, so glad it was the next thing to show up on screen, seriously underrated game
Hold on, let me dig in to my dinner of ramen noodles, vanilla ice cream, broken glass, and a Hollow Knight Collector's Edition steelbook
1:53 Hmm... I thought the gunplay and story in Mass Effect made for a pretty good mix. Also, doesn't almost every RPG ever have tones of mook characters like bandits and monsters that the player kills all the time? The context of 'these are roving criminals attacking people on the roads' is what is key here. Though, I do appreciate games that allow you to capture or subdue enemies rather than kill them... Especially when you get to put them all up into a big sleepy puppy pile.
I like to think about the roguelite and modern-open-world "genres" more as genre modifiers than as separate genres in and of themselves.
When it comes to the core gameplay, Slay the Spire has much more in common with Dominion or Clank! than it does FTL or Binding of Isaac.
Same with Infamous and games like DQ:I or Lightning Returns, they don't really share much in terms of what the gameplay and narrative drive looks like. Infamous is much closer to a Zelda-style Action Adventure than either those kinds of RPGs.
These kinds of half-genres are really interesting, especially because they've gotten latched onto to such a degree, both by consumers and developers. There's really no end to what genre you can modify with a sandboxy theme park full of mini activities, or with smaller individual runs and partial progression within each reset to scratch.
It's really amazing how new genre and genre types emerge, and I can't wait to see what kind of twist on a couple of ideas we'll see turn into it's own genre with multitudes of variations.
Now, I feel like playing a bit of defender's quest, a Tower Defense with chunky RPG mechanics as a side-dish.
I'll have you know that HuniePop has really fun writing and gave me many a chuckle while playing it. One of those rare "lewd" games that I didn't actually use for the "intended purpose" and just enjoyed the banter.
Great video. Also, don't worry about covering a topic also covered by another channel. I like getting a lot of perspectives on topics at once.
huniepop is the greatest game there is
change my mind
Peanutt butter+tuna is a surprisingly good mix. I needed an excuse to share that
I loved how Undertale fused turn based combat with bullet hell and the "dating sim" style dialogue.
I don't like any of these 3 genres, but I loved Undertale's combat.
Other games: We combine genres! Yay!
Space Rangers 2: *Amateurs...*
Ah, a fellow Mandalore, I see
Who else would LOVE to watch Mark Brown and Adam play games together on like a stream or something?
Rogue Star Rescue is a genre fusion game i found recently-ish. It's a fusion of Enter The Gungeon style roguelikes, tower defense, and some survival elements (The "towers" you have for the tower defense are limited, and you have to spend money in the shops to buy more of them) They aren't combined too heavily, as the tower defense portions only make up the equivalent of a boss room, but it does work rather well. RPG levelling mechanics got added a couple of updates ago, which im not as big of a fan of, but they're fine - which makes this an axample of a good fusion and a less good fusion in one game
one fun genre fusion i've found is simply called "demon". rouge-like, but with the monster collection and party management of a pokemon style game. all the enemies can be tamed and added to your roster, but you're limited to only 6.
I find myself unable to dig it up, could I ask you for a link? That sound really bloody interesting.
@@timeilers5612 demon.ferretdev.org/devblog/ lets how youtube allows me to post the link. its in development but it is publicly available to everyone. i usually could find it by searching "demon game"
PREY was "alright" ? What ?
It's the best modern immersive sim imo (until Cyberpunk 2077 comes out)
I agree that Mooncrash is fantastic and probably one of the most genius genre mash-ups out there, but the base game is also fantastic in its own right, not just as a template upon which Mooncrash was built.
The GLOO Cannon by itlsef deserves an award.
Now, I don't assume malicious intent here, but did you do this on purpose to downplay PREY's achievement so that you could uplift Mooncrash for the sake of argument ?
9:10 lol... good video (I really enjoy the wide spectrum of game genres/types that you pull from for your content - as apposed to always only talking about two or three styles of game).
I'm working on a bit of a genre fusion right now. It's a mix of the old retro game Asteroids, so a space shooter? and some rogue-like elements/RPG elements. Timely video, Adam!
I recently found out that Guoza and Nuggets work very well together as an impromptu lunch. Fusion!
Completely unrelated to the topic, but I just recently picked up Toki Tori 2+ after your talked about it in an older video, and I'll never cease to be amazed by your brilliant choice in games.
I disagree with what you said about Huniepop. I originally got it as a joke among my friends, but found myself genuinely enjoying the gameplay. It adds some new aspects to the actual match 3 part, but outside of that, interacting with the characters and using your money wisely on gifts and food is actually quite fun. It doesn't just straight up give you porn and throw it in your face. You have to be able to win the match 3 first, which often requires you to have managed your money and other resources well. The actual porn doesn't make up that much of the game, and I think the whole game comes together really nicely.
Some pervy games are waaay better than they deserve to be. I'd take the ninja boob game Senran Kagura's massive beat'em'up gameplay over almost any "Warriors" game for example.
@@C0C0L0QUIN can we agree that the ripped clothing mechanic and its tactical function is a great innovation in gaming?
@@Funkopedia Actually, it makes me thing in how it makes you understand the "Power Ranger logic". Is not all that strategic, but staying in your non-powered form until the situation is critical allows you for a bigger health pool, just like the rangers always started the fights without their suits/weapons despite seeming like there was no point to it.
Eating bleach in 2019? Adam Millard is way ahead of the curve.
Game genres are innately weird when compared to the notion of a genre.
Compare a game genre vs a film genre vs a music genre, and ask yourself if the way we use it with games really makes sense...
We seem to have made the notion of a 'genre' an entirely mechanical thing with games...
Why is that, exactly?
Plus edge cases make that pretty confusing.
Doom and Portal share the majority of their core mechanics, yet they are totally different games both thematically and to actually play.
Your average JRPG overlaps more than 90% in just about everything with the Legend of Zelda, yet that isn't considered an RPG (anymore. Go dig up some historical reviews and tell me what it says.)
To double down on that particular example, what makes Terranigma and Secret of Mana Action RPG's, while A link to the Past is action Adventure?
All 3 have a lot of narrative elements. Structural design involving an overworld and dungeons, battles that involve moving around the screen trying to hit enemies by using a weapon bound to a button... The only real distinction in terms of presentation and gameplay mechanics is that Terranigma and Secret of Mana gate progress using level systems and stats that you raise by fighting, while Zelda gates progression entirely using items. (even though say, gaining a heart piece after a boss fight has functionally roughly the same implications as gaining HP by leveling up after the fight.).
Is that REALLY all it takes to turn otherwise very similar games into a completely different genre?
It's things like that that make me question the sanity of the very idea of game genres...
Excellent video, as always!
A great mashup that I've seen is Trillion: God of Destruction, which combines elements of a roguelike RPG with a traditional dating/raising-sim. The combination works suprisingly well. The premise is raising the heroines for sequential deadly battle against an incredibly powerful monster threatening the world.
The game's rpg elements are such that a character's strength is tied to the the scenes and interactions viewed, encouraging the player to form an emotional attachment to each heroine for the best chance of success in spite of the threat of permadeath. The mechanic also contributes to the rpg aspect making each run or death feel especially meaningful and really nailing the progression aspect of a roguelike.
Great video. Can't wait to see what topic you'll tackle next.
Great video :) some examples that come to mind of how fusing genres that resulted in new genres and becoming huge successes would be how DOTA came about from warcraft modding, which sort of simplified real time strategy and combined it with fighting games in a way. Or how how Auto chess came about, simplifying the real time strategy formula even further but combining it with a rogue like-ish card game. You could even say the same about battle royales and such, Started off as Military Simulation in ARMA 2, then modded and fused into Zombie Survival simulation with DayZ, and ultimitely simplifying that formula further by removing the zombies and focusing on looting and player engagement.
Minus the bleach and with regular milk you can actually turn that into a good meal.
Wasabi tastes great on a grilled rare steak which veal is pretty similar to.
The milk is just used to thicken and creamify a sauce made by deglazing the leftover caramelized grilled veal bits with some kind of wine.
Adam: "Yoku's Island Express, is an unlikely fusion of a metroidvania and a pinball game."
Metroid Prime Pinball: "Am I a joke to you?"
Hey Adam, I just wanted to say ive been subbe a bit over a year now, and youve grown a lot. I know you have taken inspiration from Mark Brown in your early days and adapted your own stye, but in my opinion, youve surpassed him as a quality game design analyzer. youre more in touch with the gaming community's mindset and do an excellent job of showcasing indie titles.
I think special mention should go to THUMPER, a game that essentially is a combination between the Rhythm and Horror game genres.
It, like the chili/chocolate thing you mentioned earlier, doesn't seem like something that would work, but it somehow does. THUMPER's gameplay is based around quick reactions and close-to-perfect accurate timing (There is some leeway... unless you want an A+ rank.), resulting in an intense experience as you race down the track at immense speeds, listening to the harsh Industrial soundtrack, making sure that you avoid getting a head-on collision in the process.
...of course, the Lovecraft influences certainly don't hurt either.
Favorite genre fusion so far is the combat of xcom and the city-building of Civ in Age of Wonders. For those few out there that also play that game...
Concrete Jungle is a really cool fusion of puzzle game and city builder.
I'm still waiting for the game that combines a standard 2D fighter with a farming simulator.
Pasta Heart I like that idea but I also thought about mixing it with 3rd or first person shooter. "Farming simulator 2020: cropsN'bullets"
...Terraria?
Hmm... perhaps something similar to Battle Chef Brigade, where harvesting a crop involves fighting them, and you can wait longer or have a larger crop for more money, but then the fight vecomes harder...
@The Accidental Hipster I want everything + Harvest Moon. Every game needs farming.
@@LimeyLassen you might like atomicrops
Talking about Sanctum being a mix of “shooter” and Tower Defense..
Look up “Dungeon Defenders”, which I’d argue goes a step even further with that by dialing the shooter elements back *just slightly,* and adding RPG to the mix as well; the result is a game with multiple classes, each with their own weapons and defenses, and where both you *and* your defenses can become progressively stronger as you continue to play the game.
Factorio is a good mix of fear and peacefulness lol. It (the native monsters) can keep you on your toes if you are risky but you have a lot of freedom to avoid the threats entirely without constant war or even confrontation outside of your comfort zone. You can build less stinky creations, recycle, explore optimizations, or if you want to, even bring the battle to your enemy and free up a portion of the map for some more resources. It's like if minecraft went all in on the progression of ores from iron to diamond with redstone automation as the core instead of being mostly exploration plus leggos.
8:35 I felt that
I have over 2000 runs on Spelunky and I've never once gotten as lucky as you got at 8:18, I had to play it back in slow mo that was insane!
Ok, so this video kind of raises the question of what the heck is actually a pure Roguelike? Like all of the examples you might list wouldn't count if you choose to define Roguelike as "permanent death and random generation" - that's not enough of a foundation to build a game around unless you're placing it in some sort of framework like a platformer, bullet-hell, or (what it actually is) a grid-based, turn-based movement system. Spelunky is a fusion between a Roguelike and platformer, BOI is a fusion between a Roguelike and a twinstick shooter (and legend of zelda or something)
The way I see it, games like DCSS, Angband, Cogmind, Caves of Qud, and so on *are* pure Roguelikes, while something like BOI is a fusion of a Roguelike and something else. That doesn't mean it should be called a Roguelike though, hence the term roguelite was invented (by the developers of Rogue Legacy) to describe games which fuse Roguelikes with other stuff. Now I'm not saying the Berlin Interpretation is the right way to properly define Roguelikes, but it at least describes something that is actually a complete enough game that pure Roguelikes can exist
Oe, HuniePop is fun as hell!
I'm tempted to say that maybe the best advice here would be to incorporate elements of other genras as they are needed for your game, and not as a gimick? Concept comes first sort of deal? Haven't tryied this philosophy out in practice (yet), but as a gamer that's the sense I get from well made fusion games.
I’ve got a genre fusion:
A Third Person Shooter with Melee Combat.
Halo + Warframe + Infamous
A Marine Private crash lands on an unknown planet and finds alien armor that gives him superpowers and he fights all three sci-fi villain archetypes: Fascist Military (Hellgast), Tech Aliens (Covenant), Hive Swarm (Zerg).
Gameplay is Third Person shooter Combat with an energy rifle/sword with interchangeable firing and melee modes. You prioritize weaker enemies with regular shots while more unique and stronger enemies require more mixture of melee and ranged to take on. Plus you have grappling, telekinesis, cloaking and Riot shield powers to help you out. Plus there are creative boss fights that require reflexes but also tactical thinking to get an edge in battle.
It’s a linear story with some side missions to get minor upgrades for weapons and abilities. Plus you also have choices for a branching story that is somewhere in between Black Ops 2 and Mass Effect.
Sound like a good genre blend?
This sound like a competent version of W40k: Space Marine.
The Accidental Hipster Then perhaps the tech aliens can be space knights who only have bows, swords and shields and wizards and the hive swarm are space dragons. Sound cool?
laughing my arse off at you throwing in the Sonic-styled Mario drawing in the middle there
The latest odd combination of ingredients that turns into something new and amazing that I've learned about was a salad made of 3 ingredients: watermelon, feta and fresh mint. Seriously, try it.
I find as I get older my favorite games trend toward roguelikes. I like how tangible the rewards feel to my experience. Expecting to die makes you realize that the experience is the reward
I really like how Monster Hunter is fusion of hack n slash and fighting games. And it makes sense for Capcom with their fighting game experience to have made it.
Don't forget the fashion game!
WOOO! AN UPLOAD!
13:00
CAN BE an afterthought, you can even just make the best build and tank hits like a truck or go for one shots, barely any hand dexterity required; that's why i love dark souls: as long as you know what you're doing, no matter your skill level, you'll eventually find a way to come out on top.
I want to know more about your "Stardew Valley is a Metroidvania" theory.
Mass Effect: Half Unbelievably awesome, Three quarter Great and fully hopebreaking.
God damnit Yoku is fucking amazing! So is your work btw, love the channel.
Also Angband is one of my favourite games, I don't think I've ever heard anyone mention it other than my dad!
How could he not have talked about crypt of the necrodancer? One of the only combinations of rogue like and rhythm games that fused the concepts perfectly
"Stardew Valley is a MetroidVania"
- Xom thinks this is hilarious!
I only play Chaos Knight »_»
(So, I love your comment)
You have to build a boat ?
"Have to" ? "Have" ... "to"
No no no no good sir
You see , boat building is not optional, it's not something you have to do , you can't take your time , dilly dally learn how you would build said boat.
You MUST build a boat.
Building a boat is all there is and you MUST do it :D
I love your channel! ❤️
Damn, thanks Adam! This comes in a time, that couldn't be more perfect, as I'm on the brink of making a game that can only be described as a genre fusion.
My artistic vision ,at least, describes a "Metroid-Vania" 2D style with some twists. The world is split into levels that are like small Metroid Vania games compressed, complete with secret pickups to find and optional Upgrades to snatch. This decision was made because there is a rather large narrative focus, not in a way that Metroid Fusion did it but integrated into the game itself. (With optional Lore for the cracks like me that like that stuff)
How would that turn out? I give you an example:
Because of the Narrative focus and the Level based design, I can do a lot of crazy things with it relatively easy.
I have a blockout for a level that the player will break out of, causing some chaos along the way. He/She may find a few optional and necessary upgrades to progress or make him more powerful but the player can't reach all of them just yet. In a traditional Metroid-Vania game there's a fair bit of backtracking involved but with the Level based design, I can make things like "Branching Story Paths".
In said Blockout, there is a Boss at the end, which the player can interact with in 2 ways. You can finish off the Enemy for good or basically incapacitate him for now and go on your Merry way.
In this example, if you do finish him, you'll get some tech right away which will affect the difficulty of the next Level you'll get to in some way, making it feel like it is more complex than it actually is in a simple manner. If you decide to spare him, however, the Upgrade is lost on this part of the Story BUT the Enemy will go on a Rampage through the facility, destroying it and, once you come back to it at a later time, give you access to previously blocked off areas and Upgrades to even better Stuff.
To top it all off I want the Combat to feel engaging and not just a part of "making the players journey more time consuming" but actually fun. The way I'm looking to achieve this in particular is by mixing it up with some Tropes found in Fighting Games or Beat 'em Ups and some RPG's. Giving the player, again, some choice about how he wants to tackle certain situations, in a way that I haven't seen in a Video Game yet. (For Example the player can get through the game by mashing Buttons eventually but will find a way to improve upon itself with certain combos that end in a sort of elemental strike that will be more effective against specific types of enemies. In my research I found spectacle fighters like Devil May Cry could be more engaging this way, without making it too complicated. Think of the Megaman Upgrades and effectiveness but on a more moment to moment basis.
This seems like a huge feat for an Indie but I gathered up some motivated individuals to help me create this vision and ofc. I'm always looking to expanding that roster! Later down the road, once the project is in a presentable fashion (playtested prototypes and all) I will meet up with a consultant to discuss a way of funding this project to get it on to the market quicker.
I thank everyone for reading this and of course if you have any questions or suggestions, let me know! :)
I would love to see a video of different ways to do assymetric multiplayer games. From games like Dead by daylight, where One guy is a near unstoppable killer, and everyone else needs to work together to avoid his wrath. to Evolve, where The 4 man hunter team can have a good chance against the powerful monster, then you get something called Spacelords where someone can invade a mission as an antagonist, but plays just like the regular 4 man team, but gets to use the enemy AI grunts, mission objectives, and even bosses to their advantage to stop the team.
Card Hunter is a really clever one. It's pen and paper dungeon crawling, but with cards.
Spicy chocolate is actually a popular snack which already around for a long time. There's also spicy curry and chocolate, again, it's popular.
Food analogies are unmatched.
4:50 - "Okay?" My 130 something hours in it say its more than just that (I have no idea how much of that is Mooncrash time).
One of my favorite games is SpellForce games. A wonderful blend of RTS gameplay and core RPG features.
I still heavily prefer the fps + rpg mix of the STALKER series over something like Borderlands. Instead of going the level-up-grindfest and bullet-sponge-enemies route, it only takes elements like the loot, the inventory management, having factions and quests etc and puts all of that into an immersive semi open-world with the gameplay being massively dependant on your personal skill and understanding of the world and its inhabitants. Especially one of the most recent bigger modding projects - Anomaly (currently on 1.5 Beta 2.4) - has had me absorbed in it for weeks now, even with me having played that series for 100s or maybe 1000s of hours throughout the years. If anyone wanna get back into this game, now is the perfect time~ Hell, it even runs on its own standalone 64bit version of the XRay engine.
Yaaaay more well thought out analyses
Wish when you showed a game you'd put what the game is in the corner so we can look it up if we're interested in learning more about it.
THIS!!!! So many games that look interesting but I have no idea what it is and don't get mentioned. Like at 7:38 and at 7:45
"Although video games don't yet come in edible form" Can't wait to eat dark souls, I imagine it would be close to a ghost pepper.
Pufferfish... You Died Screen appears.
Each meal would be a tense dance of life and.....YOU DIED.
I was kinda surprised you didn't mention pyre, seeing as it's a sports/RPG/visual novel
there are no dvd's you can eat. but there are definitively dvds you can smell.(scratch and sniff)
If you're putting chocolate in your chili for 'richness' instead of just using black/turtle beans like a real boi, then you will never be the spiciest meatball. Chocolate belongs in brownies.