Why Would Mennonites Visit an Orthodox Church?
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- Опубліковано 3 чер 2024
- Today we explore why we, three Mennonite men, visited services at an Orthodox Church. Join us as we continue this discussion.
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• The Sacred Life
Find us on your favorite podcast app!
open.spotify.com/show/2NFptbLoq87ysDhlpkOG6a
music.amazon.com/podcasts/7ce86940-b31a-4f36-b331-a44322023d50
iheart.com/podcast/83395816/
ua-cam.com/play/PLy9znlc3rQBi9N03phhVJBYh9n7j_G7kx.html
For me coming from a conservative Mennonite culture to Orthodoxy, it was so healing to realize that humility is an option. May God richly bless you guys! You're in my prayers. We would value yours as well.🌿
Thanks for the comment. The Mennonite ethos is properly centered on humility, but in practice it can be about cultivating false displays of humility and purity. I'm glad to here that you are discovering the real thing. I can feel the sweet relief in your comment.
Thanks for the comment.
We're particularly interested in the stories of Mennonite people who have left our tradition and moved into Orthodoxy. There is something good to be redeemed in our culture, like Jesus says the kingdom of heaven is like a treasure hidden in a field, sometimes there is a lot of digging, a lot of rocks in the way, etc, but that treasure can be drawn out from the depths, that field can be cultivated, all by the grace of God.
It's our hope that experiences like yours can help be the bridge between these two worlds, and we think that within Orthodoxy there are the answers to the questions and the problems that plague our own culture, if we have the humility to receive them.
Thank you very much for your prayers! And we will remember you in ours as well!
@TheSacredLife my wife grew up mennonite, granted her parents weren't super devout, but she still loves the people and that church to this day. I grew up between Baptist and Pentacostal. My wife and I moved very smoothly into a conversion to Orthodoxy. We truly do beleive it lives up to its name "orthodoxy" meaning "right glory/teaching". Anyways, I appreciate your charitable thoughts towards a tradition much different than your own.
May I also suggest that you find and visit some Orthodox monastics. There is wisdom to be found among those who dedicate themselves entirely to living the aescetic life.
I haven't had any experience with Orthodox monastics. I've spoken with a few Catholic nuns (poor handmaids of Jesus Christ) and I attended some services at a Cistercian monastery in the Dominican Republic. My Spanish is not good enough that I could be conversant, but even with the language barrier, that was an experience that had a big impact on me.
I was raised Catholic, then I attended a Baptist church in my youth. I was really involved there and even played guitar in the worship band. In the years after highshcool, I slowly saw everyone around me stray away from Christ both in their actions and in their beliefs.
There is not one person in my youth group whom I would say still practices the tradition they grew up with. Later on, after being away from church for several years, my wife and I started attending different churches around us to try and find a place to call home. We attended the old baptist church, the old Catholic church we attended as children, and other protestant churches in the area. The thing that surprised us most was how much the Catholic church we attended in our childhood had changed in terms of the mass.
The thing we noticed most in the protestant churches was that all the pastors seemed to be weak and effeminate.
Even in my youth, I had felt the feminization of the church I grew up in. This was because of the way the message was related to us and in the way the worship was held. It was all female coded. The men were seen as defective women. There was no mechanism or process to nurture the boisterous male spirit, so the men were simply pushed to the side.
Then, after looking into church history I became aware of the Orthodox church. I found that men were given responsibility and a challenge for their entire life. The challenge was repentance and growing closer to Christ. My wife and I were received into the Orthodox Church last Saturday through Baptism and Chrismation. I couldn't thank God enough for what grace he has shown me (as well as generations of my offspring) by bringing me to his Body.
Sorry for my grammar. English IS my first language haha
The gospel of grace is a message of feminine receptivity like what Mary demonstrates in response to Gabriel's annunciation, and it is a very wonderful thing that, although feminine, is important for both men and women; but there is also what you might call the gospel of calling, the good news that you have been called for a purpose, to take up your cross, to build God's kingdom, to gird on the armor of God and get to work, to become like the master. If this is neglected, then men are not going to find the faith to be very compelling or personally significant, and if men aren't all in, then the church falls apart.
Mennonite and Orthodox Churches both tend to have a good record of keeping the men in the church, and it is partly because our traditions are both very comfortable with the union of grace and works. In your last paragraph you show you are grateful for grace, and also for responsibility and challenge. It takes both.
@@johnbahler very good point!
As an orthodox Christian I appreciate your videos.
God bless you! Christ is risen!
Χριστός Ανέστη
Αληθώς Ανέστη
I left the Anabaptist tradition for the Russian Orthodox Christian Church 21 years ago and have never regretted it.
While l had been in the Anabaptist faith for most of my adult life, l felt like l wasn't growing as a Christian, nor was l growing closer to Christ, or understanding theology in a more indepth way. Since converting to the Orthodox Christian Church l know l have grown exponentially each year.
May our Triune God bless your endeavors.
The bible in the Easter Orthodox Church is first and foremost a liturgical document. The canon of the bible was put together as a list of approved texts to be used in worship services (Liturgy, matins, vespers etc. and other prayers), hence the singing. That said, they are not absolutely always sung depending on the case and of course it's not meant to only be a liturgical document, we always encourage people to read it. The only difference would be that even if read in private, it is done within the context from which it sprang out of; the fullness of the tradition of the Church. We believe that Jesus Christ, did not leave us with a Bible, rather He left us with His Church. From this Church, all manner of blessings and holy traditions came forth, of which one is the bible. It is for this reason it cannot be fully understood (both rationally and mystically) without that context.
Thanks for the comment! God bless you!
Thanks for the comment. This is definitely a topic that we will be exploring in the future.
Orthodoxy is the complete expression of Christ's Truth.
Another excellent video. I appreciate how well you are understanding what you have seen in the church. I also recommend reading about the life and sayings of St. Seraphim of Sarov for the Russian Christian mysticism that you might fine quite similar to the German mystic writings.
Well... You have a beards and thus you easily blend into the Orthodox parish.
When I'm at an Orthodox service and things start feeling very foreign and uncertain, then I can always calm down by thinking, "It's okay. A lot of these guys have beards."
I knew we should have said something about bearded Mennonites in the title!
I was recommended your first video about your visit to an Orthodox Church by UA-cam; I clicked because part of my dad's family seem to be Swiss Anabaptists (Brethren, I think) who came to the US in the 1700s (before the Revolution - between 1720 and 1750, I think). I've been in places where there have been visible places of Amish and Mennonites and some part of me has always been pulled toward that, as if I instinctually feel like I have, at some level, some connection still. I didn't grow up as much of anything besides "non-denominationally Protestant", though the idea of Christianity was something as certain as the sun and the air we breathe.
I became Orthodox in 2002. Over on my channel, I've rambled on a little bit about this. Not to say that there weren't converts before then (see Fr. Peter Gilquist's book "Becoming Orthodox" for more on that), but I really feel like somewhere around 1998 was when the Orthodox Church started seeing a measurable amount of converts starting to come in. It's nothing like it is now, but in my own lifetime, it seems like most of "mainline" Protestantism has just collapsed. No, I'm no longer Protestant, but I still consider it a tragedy. Considering the history of Christianity in the US, it also has huge repercussions to the country as well.
I think we're in some dark times right now, and I don't see that it's a short-term thing. Our hope and our salvation is in Jesus Christ, not in the state, not in technology, etc. Of course, I think the true Church is the Orthodox Church, but I absolutely believe that God draws to Him all who earnestly seek Him. No matter where we stand, that's what we ought to strive to do. Churches aren't here to be little culture clubs to give grandma something enjoyable to do on Sunday. We're all going to be called to stand before God at some point, and as much as theology matters, more than that, He's going to ask us what we did live out His Word and become a participatory part of the communion of Saints - that is, building up His Church.
In any case, if you haven't watched it already, there's a video on the Gospel Simplicity channel where Fr. Andrew Damick is a guest that might be interesting to you. Also insofar as the thing with reason vs. emotion, read 4 Maccabees... It's considered a book of the Bible in a few Orthodox jurisdictions, but not all, but whether regarded as officially part of the Bible or not, I think it's an impressive piece talking about this issue. In any case, I could go on, but I won't. :) God bless you all!
Christ is Risen!
All three of you show such humility. I would love to see you three talking with a priest or better a bishop. Any Orthodox people will love your “phronema” (posture to others), we consider it a great virtue.
Thank you very much
We are working on developing relationships with a few priests actually, and definitely as we continue this process we want to do it right. We'd love to have and conversations with bishops too, but understandably they are quite busy with their responsibilities. I think, as was suggested elsewhere, it would also be good to establish some monastic connections.
The Lords Supper is very important, it's not just a symbol that we do once a month.
I listened to your podcast before and appreciate your generous words and kindness sometimes missing on UA-cam BOTH ways. I’m Orthodox.
Any human can have pride, the one sin I will battle until the day I die.
Glory to God for all things!
Yes, the word Mennonite DID attract attention!
Many people know as little about what you believe as we Orthodox experience. (No im not Greek, no I don’t worship wooden icons or Mary….on and on).
Thanks. The hostility often comes when people value truth but don't value goodness, beauty, and unity, and when they are not humble about their grasp of truth.
There's a place for argument and criticism, but it is not the case that whoever spews the most criticism wins, and we are trying to avoid that path.
@@johnbahler We forget that wolves are at play pretending to be spiritual but in truth those wolves are deceivers that cause chaos. I participate in one online group…Gospel Simplicity (Protestant, Catholic and Orthodox) because of the kindness between everyone there. Otherwise I answer theological questions about Orthodoxy on Quora (with my Priests blessing).
You are gaining exposure on the internet, so expect slander. Also know that it’s the result of proclaiming Christ and taking up the cross for your lifestyle!
To God be the Glory!
Thank you very much for the encouragement! Please pray for us that we can continue to approach the Truth with humility and receive the negative that will come with patience and grace.
@@bonniejohnstone I've listened to a couple episodes of the Gospel Simplicity podcast thanks to your recommendation.
Another thoughtful video! Thank you! I just wanted to throw in a few responses and thoughts. 1.)I have been Orthodox for 30 years and until recently, I have always landed in convert parishes. The flood of converts really started in the late 80s early 90s and there have been parishes with mostly converts for many years depending on where in the country you live. The Northeast was probably the place that held onto the mostly ethnic parishes the longest. The west and south have had many convert dominant parishes for many years.....Now we attend at a Greek Orthodox Monastery where I have met many pious Greeks. While I concede that there are still some unwelcoming ethnic parishes, there are many kind, faithful, and welcoming Greek people. I could say the same about any other ethnic group in the church: Russians, Romanians, Arabs, Serbs, etc. Each as the own culture and as Americans, it may take us a while to understand them..... I find that the best parishes are a mix of converts and cradle Orthodox, the converts add some enthusiasm and the "ethnic" people add deep spiritual roots. There is something different about people whose families have been Orthodox for 1800 years. It is in their blood....2.) I agree with your comment about singing wholeheartedly. I have always wondered if it is because when we sing in church we are uniting all of yourselves and directing ourselves to the worship of God. We united our physical body, our breath, our intellect ( our hymns are very heavily theological), our will, our spirit. We are also uniting ourselves with the rest of the body of Christ in that moment. In the modern world, we tend to scatter ourselves all over the place, but in worship, if we engage, we are bringing ourselves back into unity. 3.) Regarding the comment about not having a unified understanding of the bible... So many of the holy week hymns are about showing how everything in the old testament points to Christ. You see this great unity and continuity between the OT and NT. Were you able to attend Holy Week services besides Holy Saturday? Did you notice how much of the OT is mentioned? I am hoping you will make a video about your Holy Week experiences.... God bless you all!
Thanks for the thoughtful comment. I attended services Thursday morning and evening. David and Aaron did Thursday evening and Saturday services.
Our tradition is very big on participation in music. We view it primarily as an act that unites the individual with the local congregation. The notion of our song joining with the song of the saints and angels is not exactly foreign, but it receives less attention than it ought to. I also perform music in nursing homes for my day job, and in that capacity I see very clearly the power of music to heal and to rekindle a sense of identity, and in that context it is clearly reaching people at a level that is deeper than rational thought.
God Bless your journey! Christ is Risen!!!
God bless you ☦️
Another great video. Good bless you all! Christos anesti!
Thank you! Truly he is risen!
This is a fantastic video. I am thrilled to watch your journey!
Glad you enjoy it!
Another comment: The idea of the Liturgy is that this is a Holy Mystery that is part of God's Kingdom. And by that I mean that we on earth are connected to heaven in the on-going worship that is happening and we are able to participate in that with all Saints and we are the body of Christ expressed. It's profound. I'm still coming to terms with all of this and I'm as far from diefication as can be, but I want to truly know and love The Truth. God help me!
This is one of the things that we admire most in the Orthodox ethos, and is one of the greatest treasures that you have to offer to the world. The idea of the liturgy, Christian prayer, and worship being something eternal that we have been given the grace to take part in is a wonderful thing that ties the Christian life together in a way that other doctrine based approaches are unable to.
Asking before watched the video - have you attended the great and Holy week and the Pascha services?
We did what we could. All three of us attended Thursday evening together. I went to a Thursday morning. David and Aaron went Saturday morning. David is the only one who made it Saturday night, as Aaron and I were both preaching at different churches. It was a great experience, and I think for all of us it started to feel a little less foreign and more restful.
@@johnbahler great
The year you attend all services (morning services) of Holy week and then the Pascha
You'll come out different person
This is such refreshing content! Very interesting discussion and thoughtful consideration from you all.
May I suggest you read or listen to two of Father Seraphim Rose's writings: "Orthdoxy and the Religion of the Future" and "Orthdox Survival Guide". This can be found on UA-cam for free, but be warned it is several hours of content, but well worth the time investment if you have not been exposed to this information.
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.
May God bless you all in your endeavor to find The Truth.
Thank you for your compliments and the suggestion, we will certainly look into that!
The Greatest Treasure in the Universe is staring you in the face and you guys can't seem to get beyond the perceived need to re-invent the Church.
They'll likely realize that 😋
I think you have greatly mistaken our motivations and goals.
No one is looking to re-invent the Church.
We are looking for the restoration of the Church, not just within ourselves and for our selves, but for all Christians.
Perhaps as Orthodox Christians who believe you have something real and true, you could be on board with a vision that sees not just a scattered collection of individuals coming into your churches, but entire cultures and peoples.
@@TheSacredLife Ugh! In trying to explain where I was mistaken, you doubled down on your motivations and goals. The Church does NOT need restoration! She is complete and true ever since Pentecost 2000 years ago. Christ established Her then. But you continue to maintain your Protestant outlook of what it means to be a "christian". If you want to restore the church, Joseph Smith has already done that for you and given you the Mormon LDS church. What kind of restoration are you hoping to find; especially where none is needed? Maybe you're envisioning a Mennonite Orthodox church; I believe that's what you really want.
Again, you are misunderstanding what is being said.
No one is looking to change the Orthodox Church or threaten what you have. It is quite the opposite of that. Neither is anyone looking to recreate Christianity and form a sect of our own making. There is a schism that has existed in the Church for a thousand years, which your own bishops and hierarchs pray and labor to see repaired. Not as some sort of empty ecumenism, but as those who have committed errors turning away from those errors so that restoration of our ancient fellowship can be restored.
No one is looking to create a sect, we are rather looking sincerely at what it would mean for us as a people to be restored to the fullness of faith. We are working against schism and division, and hope that by God's grace we can perhaps lay the foundation for the Church in the West to be restored.
You say that the Church does not need restored. Perhaps this is true in the East. But in the West, the Church fell into error long ago. Our perspective is for our people and our whole culture, a restoration of the true Apostolic faith and tradition. Why would you not want this? I ask you to please consider this carefully and perhaps you will see that we are not proposing what you think.
Perhaps think of it this way, you want for us as individuals to come into the true faith. But we want that for our people as a whole, and ultimately for the whole Western world. And if you think we're making an error in this, then I will say that I trust the judgements of Orthodox priests with whom I have and continue to discuss these very things. Be careful that in arguing against what we're saying you do not argue against your own priests. Nevertheless, we will listen to the counsel of priests and bishops in this, and with that I hope you can be content.
To whatever end, please pray for us.
@@TheSacredLife I don’t think he was criticizing what you are about, but rather how you plan to accomplish it. For us, what you’re looking for can only be found in Orthodoxy. If you haven’t heard of Zootown Church in Missoula, MT, please check them out. The pastor is converting to Orthodoxy, while at the same time remaining the pastor with the aim of bringing his entire congregation into the Church. God be with you.