Why does this CURSED alliance always happen in EU4?
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- Опубліковано 17 січ 2022
- In this video I want to discuss the eu4 nations of France and the Ottomans. In Europa universalis 4, they ally a lot. Why does this CURSED alliance always happen in EU4? In todays video we go into the history of why this is the case in the game
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It isn’t cursed, historically they were great allies, an Ottoman diplomat even went to France and was shocked by their culture and especially the canals.
Alright I admit to not having seen the video
A truth with modification, they were allies yes but France wasn’t a very good ally being a typical EU4 AI when fighting in the same side as the ottomans
Same with otto and pope. Starting out friendly
@@KKsKrissvs121 The Pope literally helped create an alliance to stop Ottoman expansion. I really doubt there was much friendliness between them except maybe at the very beginning when the Ottomans weren't a threat.
In real life it was also cursed
Thats historical, Magnificant Suleiman helped France a lot. They were like allies actually. France and Ottomans hated HRE and Hungary.
Classic “enemy of my enemy is my friend” type shit
Hungary was irrelevant. Suleiman conquered Hungary early on, this was an anti Habsburg alliance.
@@fusionreactor7179 Hungary was a Habsburg demesne...
@@fusionreactor7179 Weird comment, considering the Ottomans never fully conquered Hungary, and Hungarians literally fighting on both sides for hundreds of years..
But to be honest France Ottomans and Spain allience is just pure death. They are unstoppable. Its impossible to win against them. Delete your save
I once saw a ottoman-France-Spain allies block there will basically undefetable I was playing as the moguls and seeing this I canceled all my European plans and focused on China and Japan
would probably be a fun end game challenge.
You Mist Put your Fist into their faces!
@@ThatsNotEnglish sorry I am not that competent
@@hishamx9180 no better way to become competent than to try things out
Great video. However, I would like to make a small note. The Ottomans defeated the Hungarians at Mohács in 1526, and at this point the Hungarian king was Louis II from house Jagellon. The Habsburgs gained significant power in Hungary only after Louis II died at Mohács.
Their alliances basically boil down to: "The enemy of my enemy is my friend"
One of my most cursed alliance blocks I’ve seen is Ottoman-Mamlukes-Persia
Dear god. Iran, Turkey and Egypt being allied to each other at any moment in history is probably one of the most cursed things that could ever happen to the Middle East and even the world.
The AI really managed to ally each other despite the 'historical rival' opinion debuff?
@@chrystales6169 maybe in old patches this is possible.
@@chrystales6169 yes they did, it was my first game and I formed Malaya
I once had britain and spain against france and the ottomans(me). Just imagine how many ships i lost despite winning wars
from a gameplay perspective it makes sense for the game to display this, as the game attempts to balance the tip of power because Austria often allies with Spain, England, Poland or Bohemia. Thus forcing the AI to pairs France with the ottomans as they have Austria as a common enemy between both nations
I was never much of a history person, but having EU4 to provide context makes these kinds of videos fascinating. I very much enjoyed this.
As a french I think that historically France, a catholic nation, allied the Ottomans for the same reason they would support the protestants against the catholics in the central europe religious wars :
The Habsburgs.
From a french point of view, from most of the aftermath of the 100 years war to the 18th century and the start of the Habsburg decline, the Habsburgs were the most deadly threat to France. Before and after that, England (which anyway was mostly hostile during the whole period).
After that the biggest thread were the Germans. Until the end of ww2
In fact that's exactly what they did historically, Francois I had really bad relations with almost everyone in Europe, so he allied for a time with protestants then with the Ottomans
Politics is politics!
The introduction of the letter suleiman sent as an answer to the alliance offer: I who am the Sultan of Sultans, the sovereign of sovereigns, the dispenser of crowns to the monarchs on the face of the earth, the shadow of the God on Earth, the Sultan and sovereign lord of the Mediterranean Sea and of the Black Sea, of Rumelia and of Anatolia, of Karamania, Kaiser of Romans, of Dhulkadria, of Diyarbakir, of Kurdistan, of Azerbaijan, of Persia, of Damascus, of Aleppo, of Cairo, of Mecca, of Medina, of Jerusalem, of all Arabia, of Yemen and of many other lands which my noble fore-fathers and my glorious ancestors (may God light up their tombs!) conquered by the force of their arms and which my August Majesty has made subject to my flamboyant sword and my victorious blade, I, Sultan Suleiman Khan, son of Sultan Selim Khan, son of Sultan Bayezid Khan: To you who are François, king of the province of France
starting of the friendship with a dick measuring contest. a european monarch tradition since 500 AD.
@@philip8498 French response: nice di*k bro
Imagine having such a massive empire that you call France a province.
@@costamcostam8961 French king happily obliged to suck on that juicy ottoman baguette.
I'm really having a hard time understanding this. what is this even trying to say other than I WON THIS NIGGA AND YOU BETTER SEE HOW BIG IT IS!
Love how these two fight cooperate fight cooperate etc it's like a love hate relationship
Minor correction
Pope Nicholas V (1447-1455) was the pope during the Fall of Constantinople
Pope Pius II (1458-1464)
both called crusades against the Ottomans
Great video mates. Interesting idea, I never thought about that and I've seen them ally the Ottomans in most of my campaigns. Really enjoy the variety, keep up the great work and I hope to see you in Ulm someday!
"The Ottomans did a blow to the Habsburgs at Mohács" For hostorical context, this statement bleeds srom some wounds. The king of Hungary (Louis II, pictured int the video dead) was from the Jagellonian dynasty, and while the Habsburgs did have a royal marriage treaty with them, the Jagiellons did hold many territories claimed by the Habsburgs. After mohács the inheritance of Louis went to Ferdinand von Habsburg, who was (if i remember correctly) his brother in law, which included Bohemia and Hungary.
Hungarian nobles were divided and some sided with Habsburgs and some sided with Ottomans after Mohacs
I don't think it is cursed at all. It was bound to happen due to their anti Habsburg bias. Both had differing spheres of influence so, no conflict possible.
It really doesn't happen that often in my games. Even when I played France last, the Ottomans had me as a rival pretty much the whole game.
tfw the ai just hates you
That's because of fucking ai, tries to make harder game for you. When I play as Teutonic Order, Austria rivals me. When I play as Great Horde, Crimea allies Ottomans. When I play as Ottomans, Candar allies with Great Horde.
I’ve seen France/ottomans pretty frequently
In my papal state game where I formed the kingdom of God I allied the ottomans and it was great
In my game (currently approaching 1700) there is going to be a war where France is fighting for independence from Spain (who had a PU over them) and the Ottomans are helping France get their independence...I'm France.
The reasoning for this is that I had a great relationship with Spain, who at this point controls the entire Iberian peninsula, Naples, the North African coast, almost the entirety of America (I control Canada and Flanders controls Panama), a good bit of South Africa, the whole of Australia and is starting to expand into the east indies, they are the number 1 great power in the world. I managed to get my dynasty on the Spanish throne a long time ago, and had been waiting for an opportunity to get a PU over them...then suddenly a couple years ago my heirless king suddenly died at age 31, and Spain got a PU over me. Austria also claimed it, but Spain defeated them in the succession war (Austria is not the emperor). I let them fight it out, only fighting the Austrians if they actually crossed my border.
Now the succession war is over, and I want to get my independence. However, everyone hates me, or at least likes me less than Spain, except the Ottomans. The Ottomans are the only ones who are willing to support my independence, and they are the only nation with an army comparable to Spain (power ranking goes Spain>Ottomans>France(Me), at least before Spain got the PU). Ottomans are currently in another war though, so I have to wait for that to be over before creating the alliance with them and fighting for independence. With our numbers and tech advantage we should win, and I will probably continue the alliance with the Ottomans.
I really dig the History vs what the game so often reflects--think u could probably do another vid like this on the india powers, but I don't play enough India games to know if I'm seeing a pattern.
Good Vid!
So, I have subscribed. Now I really wanna see you stick to all your promises in regards to ulm.
Decisively, there was a situation of a strong alliance between the Ottomans and France. The enemies of both nations were common. The Turks have always come to the aid of France in difficult moments. They have saved them from disasters many times. This state of alliance also facilitated the progress of the Turks in Europe. Because at that time there was literally no religious unity in Europe. Catholics and Protestants were at war. Both France and the Ottoman Empire supported Protestants in these wars. Politically, these things aside, the Turks had made great capitulations to the French, era on the Suleiman. But these capitulations were not ambiguous. Every sultan who came to power was making changes in these things. By the Treaty of Belgrade of 1739, the capitulations granted to the French were extended indefinitely.
Otto allied russia in one of my games when I was lothainga I had to fight both of them defending my allies. so many people died in the moutians of Austria and hungry. And in the end Austria peaced out and gave up land. I didn't help them again.
ai keeps surrendering god damnit, how do you tell the ai that you still have an army, and fuck ton manpower reserves.
The logic of the alliance is natural really. It's a check on the empire, a major rival to both.
The first non-ideological alliance in history? That might be a bit of a hyperbole.
Well it was more like the first real alliance between Christians and Muslims.
@@joundii3100 Abbasid-Karling alliance?
@@m.thorton9305 It wasn't a real official alliance. Just cooperation against a common enemy like there have been so many.
Exactly my thoughts. What does he mean by non-ideological exactly? And how could this be the first instance of such an alliance when states have almost certainly had alliances in spite of diametrically opposing ideological differences with his definition of ideology in this context?
@@ivanfinley2510 He doesn't want to say "religious" because he doesn't want to get flagged or demonetized or whatever.
I know there's some historic background, but this alliance is extremely stupid and illogical when it comes to EU4, especially when you're a country like Ethiopia and France decides to send a 100k death stack to your nation
Nah just get good
@@thefutureisnowoldman7653 > me trying to get one little island from 400 k spain allied with 150k portugal to get an achievement... as cebu.
If your attacking the ottomans directly as Ethiopia then you are probably playing it wrong as you're meant to attack the ottoman's smaller allies to avoid the ottoman's allies being called in. (sorry for sounding like an prick if I do)
The problem is not a France- Ottoman alliance (or any powerful alliance), the problem is the AI honoring that alliance at all costs by marching their full armies through half a continent and 30 countries. This is the unreasonable thing (and very unhistorical) that annoys a player.
@@anon-rf5sx that is true as the AI does B line into your capital at all cost, but this is what EU4 is essentially, and small things that game the system is what makes EU4 ‘strategic’
They were allies against Spain (that in that moment has Austria under a personal union with the Emperor Charles V)
not “under” personal unions are not what EU4 shows
@@fusionreactor7179 Because will be too powerfull for the game (emperor, pu austria-spain) But untill 1521 he have both austria and spain
Fortunately I don't see it much because one is either reduced or allied by me with the opposite being the rival. But what I do get alot is a Otto-Russo Quantity Ideas alliance :(
I was playing an MP game that explains this last night as France. Basically, everyone around France typically hems them in (Austria and HRE to the East, Castile to the South, and England to the North). They all end up allying with each other. When 1550 rolls around, I am definitely going to ally Ottos to help break Castile (although I recently beat Castile-England-Portugal Alliance with just Denmark to help). The fact that Castile-Aragon, England, and Austria typically all rival France makes them look elsewhere.
6:32 look at that magnificent Onion Hat :3
Great video, just one small note: Macchiavelli actually did not really believe in most of what he wrote in Il Duce, but he had to appease the rulers of Florence (his home city) that had banished him over political and philosophical differences. There's apparently also a lot of subtext that hints towards anyone actually following the advice is nothing but a tyrant. But as it goes, people just hear what they wanna hear and Macchiavelli was allowed back into Florence.
How is this cursed, as a history lover, the franks(french) whatever did ally with the ottomans
0:05 I don't know why he said that. These are are nations that any good eu4 player will focus in on destroying first before they can get any more powerful later on
Actually you wouldnt want to involve with france at first unless you are a major power. Their vassals will be too troublesome to deal with in early game.
For ottomans, it is better to take them on early. Especially blocking them from taking constantinople.
Tbh I see it kind of as s failure of the game that that's the only viable way to deal with these nations in many situations.
I want my campaigns to be different and not deal with the same infuriating nonsense every time
I mean, even if it's strategically beneficial, it's still not exactly an enjoyable war to have to wage
Hang on. You already made this video!
Those sideways map rotations were giving me sea sickness 🤢
Is the english way to pronounce François Ier Francis the first ? Or is it a mistake ?
*Inserting "Where next Ditmarshen video" meme*
8:00 why is the guy on the right wearing a nappy on his head with what looks like a large plucked turkey inside it?
On my last game as ottomans i diplo vassalized france because they got so small by england and burgundy
(I tried the flavor universalis mission tree of the ottomans or i wouldnt have played them)
It's funny cuz I just learned about This alliance in History class
The enemy of my enemy, is my friend
In my Spanish game the ottomans allied the HRE emperor Württemberg who was quite strong funny enough (got a big burgundy and ate like half of France. They where both my rivals and just annoying me in every way possible
In my over 3000 hours, I have never seen this historical alliance happen.
Sadly, the Cursed Alliance is a staple for most of my European games. I play anywhere else and it doesn't happen.
@@christopherlane467 maybe that's why. I almost never play in Europenexceptnas Dithmarschen, and usually when I play as them I migrate to Africa or Arabia to swap to Islam
Truth is that game is allways rigged aganist the player to help underdeveloped AI fighting aganist oponent with brain.
As such your rivals get hidden +100 opinion modifier to ally each other. And completly ignore religious diferences and distance.
Best example of this was Ming allying duth rebelion in my game as burgundy, cause yolo thats why.
France asked for soldier to defend itself but ottomans wasnt very good to send soldiers so they sent outfits of jannisarries when enemy saw the french soldiers in the turkish uniforms they fought they were Turks and the feared from them.
I dont know where i heard that but im sure that happened somewhere in the history
Searched for it , found nothing 🤷
@@luxhistoriae1172 İ think it happened during maine war
I heard a different version of it but much probably fabricated. According to this version: French were stealing Germans' harvest and Germans demanded help from Ottomans. Ottomans decided that sending soldiers would be unnecessary as French are coward people and seeing Ottoman uniforms would be enough for them to run away. Ottomans just sent Janissary uniforms to Germans and French never tried to steal their harvest.
Yo what map mod are you using?
Almost never happens to me but Bohemia and Ottomans always happens, if Bohemia expands
Makes alot of sense. i either see bohemia otto alliance or france otto alliance.
It is basically balance of power, France and Ottoman Empire allied to counter Austria-Habsburg domination in Europe.
I am from Turkey. We have more loanwords from French than Persian or Arabic in Turkish language because of this relationship between France and Ottomans/Turkey.
This video coming out today is weird cause I just started playing the ottomans today for the first time and one of my allies is france lol
I just had an idea. Irl, pope sent a letter to Mehmed II basically asking him to convert to catholicism. He claimed that he would be the most powerful man in europe and since he would be christian, no one would oppose him and he would gain many kingdoms without bloodshed. In eu4 we see that this is indeed true, christian ottomans becoming hre emperors and basically unifying europe, becoming unstopabble. Maybe this could be an event where ai has very low, like 1 or 2 percent chance to accept popes offer and be christian, with rebels and instability or stay muslim and gain stability, piety or prestige. Could be a fun flavor addition. Imagine playing some native american nation and you see christian ottomans colonizing and they are the emperor
An event should fire if Austria and Spain/Castille have the same dynasty. For sure.
Because the French don't want the Austrians to have any onions.
That's quiet simple. Because of that Austria is the historical rival for both Ottomans and France.
Bakugan moment
@@fusionreactor7179 :D
I would like to see Otto-Franco alliances be automatic in the game at some point, assuming neither nation is beat down to insignificance or simply gone. Players need more challenge. (As if players can't work around uncomfortable alliances anyway.) Besides, it's historical, as shown here. It was, I'm betting, the most talked-about and condemned alliance during the later Renaissance. Or, we can just give Austria and/or Spain another free PU - whatever people want. :)
Ottomans and France often turn out to be the only valid rivals of eachother.
@@caferustwat True. Maybe tie an Otto/French alliance to successful Austria/Spain/Habsburgs, but that still doesn't solve the rival problem. Oh well
this happen everytime i play austria.
Honestly I've never seen it. I've always gotten a load of allies and crushed the ottomans asap.
yes
Reason: Habsburgs. That's a big reason.
I don’t know why
a pointer on pronouncing Mohács:
mo like in mole
ha like in hat, with the a sound elongated
cs is a ch sound like chapter
even if there is no historic alliance between them it makes sense for them to ally because france is nearly always rivalled to austria and sometimes castile/spain.. spain often wants to attack morocco & tunis and tunis are often allied to ottomans... austria nearly always wars ottomans at some point.. and france generally cant ally many people as they are surrounded by people who hate them or lands they want to take apart from some minor nations.. if i were france id try to ally ottomans and possibly muscovy or poland.. also historically france likes to get egypt.. so ottomans makes for a good aliance to attack mamluks..
Tom get a new mic, miles away from Laith
The closest thing we have today to tha alliance between the ottomans and France , is the alliance between America and the gulf countries
Historical they did often.
All this video and you forgot to mention Suleiman's letter to François. C'monn!!!
“I who am the Sultan of Sultans, the sovereign of sovereigns, the dispenser of crowns to the monarchs on the face of the earth, the shadow of the God on Earth, the Sultan and sovereign lord of the Mediterranean Sea and of the Black Sea, of Rumelia and of Anatolia, of Karamania, of the land of Romans, of Dhulkadria, of Diyarbakir, of Kurdistan, of Azerbaijan, of Persia, of Damascus, of Aleppo, of Cairo, of Mecca, of Medina, of Jerusalem, of all Arabia, of Yemen and of many other lands which my noble fore-fathers and my glorious ancestors (may God light up their tombs!) conquered by the force of their arms and which my August Majesty has made subject to my flamboyant sword and my victorious blade, I, Sultan Suleiman Khan, son of Sultan Selim Khan, son of Sultan Bayezid Khan. And you are Francesco, king of the province of France.”
Regarding EU4 changes, I think you really need the rise of Portugal first. There needs to be an option for Historical Colonization similar to HOI4 Historical Timeline and greater events (mostly targeted for AI Portugal) to help Portugal get a presence in the Indian Ocean to challenge the Ottomans. The entire Indian Ocean/Pacific Ocean conflicts of the 1500s are missing from EU4 and do not occur for a variety of reasons, mostly due to bad Portuguese AI.
It doesn't happen every time, personally I have never seen it.
It would've existed for even longer if napoleon didn't try to conquer Egypt to get to India. So technically if tipu Sultan didn't have an advanced military which opposed the British which attracted Napoleon to Egypt, the ottoman French alliance would have existed for even longer.
Man I love history
But I dont really See how this would benefit France during that time. Ottomans already were in their last legs.
@@kalterverwalter4516 france did shielded the ottoman from Russia later
@@luxhistoriae1172 But That was more against the Russians than for the Ottomans or?
@@kalterverwalter4516 France and ottomans had common interests until the french revolution
@@reconscout2238 Well but the comment is about Napoleons Engagement in Egypt. Also after the the Revolution.
1:00 wow... is that the Cool S Right fucking there? What is this paiting.. is this the first Cool S in existance?
I my Scotland campaign for " audle alliance" achievement got Aragon pu Castille and then PU Portugal but lose everything cause ottomans support independance Castille and then Portugal have to crush ottomans, bigger Castille and kinda STONK papale state.
Now I could just focusing in weaken France but I want to destroy this 300K force limit ottomans.
Mutual threats +50
because it happend in real life too
1 word, Austria
both of them just hate Habsburg's
Are you playing as Ulm next to the Ulm cathedral? Anything else would make the three Swabian EU4 players really upset.
Turks have a word about diplomacy. We give trust and loyalty to friend. We give fear and renown to enemy.
It's really one of the most sensible alliances imo. They both hate the same people, namely Austria and the Habsburgs. They are geographically isolated from each other, so no border conflicts. They maintain a trade connection through the Mediterranean but aren't on top of each other. The sandwich effect on central europe would keep any war at least even. The only thing they had to overcome was the religion issue but both realized it's dumb to not work with someone based on that
Discord gang
next promise be like: if we get to 100.000 subscribers we will hire the free company and invade germany to recreate the free city of ulm.
Not in my case, when i play France i no cb Byzantium and annex ottomans by releasing vassals and feeding them their cores
France: fck Austria
Ottoman: fck Austria
France: hey... Wanna be friends?
Ottoman: why not? :D
Austria: oh nein!
It's historically accurate lol. France and Ottomans were allies and also shared relatively socially progressive cultures, especially after the French Revolution. For example, France and the Ottomans were the first and second countries in Europe to legalize homosexuality.
depends on progressive, since the ottomans still had slaves up to the 20th century
I guess, if the habsburg could have a pragmatic sanction, the the french could have pragmatic alliance with the turks 🤔
Austria
Austria, that's why.
0:12 Greatest empire? The Roman Empire would like to have a conversation!
*Groans in Mongolian*
It is historically accurate though. If it wasn't for France constantly distracting the Habsburgs during the The Great Turkish War the holy league would have gotten to Constantinople.
Probably because the players are meta slaves
*laughs in exclusively playing quirky nations to mess up the world's history*
We get it ulms a thing, you dont have to say it every video
One klick, one comment but 4 likes
As one of the more influential Paradox EU4 channels, y’all should look into the cheating “Manchu” situation with Ludi… I recently noticed it and it’s not right for eu4 content creators to make false claims about the validity of their games. I think more attention should be brought upon it, and y’all are one of the best eu4 channels I watch, so I think it would be cool if y’all launched an investigation into it, or at least brought more attention to it so we can see if Ludi is actually cheating. It would be nice to get the truth for the EU4 community.
Please keep your eu4 drama out of this channel. We dont need that here