The Mangler Squigs being invisible on respawn is probably a side effect of the explosion mechanic. I would guess that when they explode it triggers the effect and then ticks a flag that sets the Mangler Squig model to invisible and when they're respawned it's technically the same regiment, so the invisible model flag is still triggered since nothing in the code resets it.
Ok. Turin consistently makes the same mistake: he summons an expensive ranged unit to counter an enemy unit, then he doesn't protect it like at all. If he hadn't called out the strelsi early on, and called out any decent melee unit it would have been better.
The mangler squigs have super weird hitboxes. The first summon took no damage for half a minute from your spears. It seems the hitbox to hit them is in the middle, while the models keep knocking normal infantry away before they reach to get a hit in? Maybe test that further @turinRTS
4:33 The cauldron is really good in campaign when the AI does 'the thing' and blobs an entire army for no reason. So I can understand why it has a high cost while also being crap Vs humans.
I also imagine, could be completely incorrect on this, but a lot of the lore of hag spells likely got nerfed after the initial shadows of change release.
i'd like to see a custom community game mode where we have all 8 player slots split into two opposing teams that have to share the normal 12,400 gold allotment but each player is responsible for one of four unit roles. infantry / ranged / cavalry / and magic and heroes. It'd be cool to see how a game would look if each unit was micro'ed to its max potential
Capture weight of SEs is absolutely a problem, SEs already take relatively small penalties for receiving damage and the full capture weight they provide is just busted.
I think kislev in general was more fun to watch before kislevite wariors were added - theyre such a staple that theyre literally spammed in every build nowadays, and the unit isnt very exciting to watch. It's not like watching akshina ambushers shred something from range or things in the wood annihilate a half hp unit. also think mama stank was way stronger in campaign before the lore of the hag was added, even though it is a very cool lore of magic! Double anraheir + enfeebling foe with double hex duration was so strong
As it turns out affordable melee units are very important for every faction. I wouldn't mind making them cheaper and worse but as is CA seems to want kislev to be kinda Highelves 2.0
Well, the warrior spam is kind of necessary because of unit caps - literally all the other Kislevite infantry count towards the ranged cap. Which ends up extremely restrictive for a hybrid faction.
The vigor debuf is interesting but it's not permanent. It's still temporary as units would tire anyway and reach the same debuffed stats. It's just reaching that point sooner.
Those squig summons need to be more expensive bro. They got the nerf and they're still so busted. Did they resuce the duration or just the amount of summons, because I swear they last longer too.
Crazy how weak greenskins are. You essentially blundered most spells, mostly right clicked into weird situations (like at the start) while he was actively countering your units yet you just straight up pulled ahead at the end by like 2k value moving a blob around while he narrowly wins. You said you had very low kislev experience while I have seen outerregion play a lot of greenskins. Imho the very strong goblin night bosses and mangler squigs after DLC release will throw a shadow over balance issues for a very long while.
Greenskins are not weak, they’re a pretty solid mid to high mid tier faction. They perform consistently. There’s a few different reasons why I think the orcs struggled here, mainly to do with the matchup itself due to the fact that greenskin cheap infantry spam, as seen here can struggle with armored infantry. The greenskin player also somewhat struggled to utilize Azhag to their full potential as a harassment or lord sniping piece. Perhaps they should have went with Gorbad with a bit of a boar boy spam army, high mobility, good charge dmg, high armor pierce, etc. It’s equally player error imo, it was definitely winnable.
They shouldn't be able to win the charge trade with units that are 300+ more gold than them it's a little silly. Them and the Bellowers ROR need to be adjusted big time to be less super charged
Those lads are too funny to be out of the meta but we have to make them fair! First no questions asked! They have to remove the knock back immunity. That is beyond op. You can test them out vs Reiksguard... See how insanely good they do because of that immunity... (Maybe Reiksguard are a bad choice. They are a weak unit for their cost but you get what I mean!) Also the "bonus vs large of 12 " PLUS a "charge bonus of 30" which is better than some tier 2 infantry... Is a bit too much... I say pick one of those two stats... All that for low low price of 400 Khemrian dinars! That is a steal! So either reduce those stats, pick one of the two, or increase their cost by 100 to 150... I... cant believe they released them like that.
@@aziouss2863 The BvL on such a high charge unit is kinda insane. Didn't know they had knockback immunity, that explains why they always do so much damage even when charged by cav
@@turinRTSThe issue currently with pigback riders is more so the pigback knights that can just up trade to a ridiculous degree. Results with the standard pigback riders tend to be more matchup dependent. Ogre bulls are good but the dismember change was frankly in most use cases a general overall nerf as you can no longer place it on infantry blobs and such to ensure that your faster troops will take an objective. Also in land battle and conquest pigback riders are very costly for the role that they typically end up playing. I’m not opposed to a pigback rider nerf but the priority should be nerfing pigback knights, cost reducing the new maneaters, making the ogre bruisers and actually viable option (they shouldn’t be 900+ gold base when dragon slayers are 700 base cost). The army ability system also needs to be reviewed or reverted. The army ability generation on charge is a general and oftentimes significant downgrade across the course of a match regardless of mode unless the ogre player is intentionally abusing a bug where you repeatedly start and end charges with a lot of blood vultures. Also in the scheme of broken stuff this update, the standard pigback rider is pretty reasonable, trading equally or downwards into most infantry which can generally screen them relatively effectively. I’m just of the opinion that the priority should be issues listed above with ogres and the fact that wrathmongers are objectively broken due to their knockback distances on infantry. Also pigback riders, despite being frequently taken, are certainly not the optimal choice in every matchup, which is good obviously, mostly due to cost. My concern as an ogre and dark elf main is that if the pigbacks are price increased more they will be zoned out from most matchups due to cost simply because from a price point they have low health and expendable, which is good for balance but could effectively eliminate the usage case of the unit in domination because ogres can already somewhat struggle contesting objectives due to the high proportion of expendable units. - did not mean to write this much about Pigback riders lol but I think that there are a lot of unappreciated factors to consider before making any balance updates to the unit. I also think that we oftentimes as gamers generally tend to overstate the effectiveness of the new toys we get so I think giving it a little bit more time to play out could potentially be the pragmatic choice. Also as a general rule I’m opposed to any future balance changes to them while they do not have knock back animations because as of now their lack of a knock back animation prevents any and all knockback meaning they trade far to well in counter charges against large pieces, so I worry that if changes are made now and they go back and fix that poor game design they will be nuked in the long to short term, especially given how rarely historically ogres have gotten balance changes.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
The Mangler Squigs being invisible on respawn is probably a side effect of the explosion mechanic. I would guess that when they explode it triggers the effect and then ticks a flag that sets the Mangler Squig model to invisible and when they're respawned it's technically the same regiment, so the invisible model flag is still triggered since nothing in the code resets it.
The reason the squig summon lasted so long was that the other big boss summoned a second unit when the camera was looking away.
Ok. Turin consistently makes the same mistake: he summons an expensive ranged unit to counter an enemy unit, then he doesn't protect it like at all. If he hadn't called out the strelsi early on, and called out any decent melee unit it would have been better.
16:12 turning the wyrm lost the only slim chance.
The mangler squigs have super weird hitboxes. The first summon took no damage for half a minute from your spears. It seems the hitbox to hit them is in the middle, while the models keep knocking normal infantry away before they reach to get a hit in? Maybe test that further @turinRTS
For sure they look broken. They run into spears and take no damage, wtf.
Frost Wyrm? Damn I forgot they even existed.
4:33 The cauldron is really good in campaign when the AI does 'the thing' and blobs an entire army for no reason. So I can understand why it has a high cost while also being crap Vs humans.
I also imagine, could be completely incorrect on this, but a lot of the lore of hag spells likely got nerfed after the initial shadows of change release.
i would sell my soul for a vampire coast gunline match
Awesome battle! I've been loving all the Greenskins love recently. Time to play my 2000 pts in WH40K more often. WAAAAGH!
It would be fine if SEs lost like 25-33% of their capture weight when they get wounds.
The thumbnail and title are too perfect😂
i'd like to see a custom community game mode where we have all 8 player slots split into two opposing teams that have to share the normal 12,400 gold allotment but each player is responsible for one of four unit roles. infantry / ranged / cavalry / and magic and heroes. It'd be cool to see how a game would look if each unit was micro'ed to its max potential
Reminds me of total war arena if anyone remembers that absolute flop of a video game
I played in some low funds 4vs4s and it mostly just devolved into expensive lords and monsters + chaff.
This game mode is called subcommanders and if you youtube "heir of Carthage subcommanders" you can find videos od this being done in Rome 2!
It's been so long since I've seen anyone say Stanky Leg
Purple squigs monkaS
Capture weight of SEs is absolutely a problem, SEs already take relatively small penalties for receiving damage and the full capture weight they provide is just busted.
I think kislev in general was more fun to watch before kislevite wariors were added - theyre such a staple that theyre literally spammed in every build nowadays, and the unit isnt very exciting to watch. It's not like watching akshina ambushers shred something from range or things in the wood annihilate a half hp unit.
also think mama stank was way stronger in campaign before the lore of the hag was added, even though it is a very cool lore of magic! Double anraheir + enfeebling foe with double hex duration was so strong
As it turns out affordable melee units are very important for every faction.
I wouldn't mind making them cheaper and worse but as is CA seems to want kislev to be kinda Highelves 2.0
Well, the warrior spam is kind of necessary because of unit caps - literally all the other Kislevite infantry count towards the ranged cap. Which ends up extremely restrictive for a hybrid faction.
Purple Squigs
The vigor debuf is interesting but it's not permanent. It's still temporary as units would tire anyway and reach the same debuffed stats. It's just reaching that point sooner.
W thumbnail
Those squig summons need to be more expensive bro. They got the nerf and they're still so busted. Did they resuce the duration or just the amount of summons, because I swear they last longer too.
Mangler squigs still OP
woot!
Crazy how weak greenskins are. You essentially blundered most spells, mostly right clicked into weird situations (like at the start) while he was actively countering your units yet you just straight up pulled ahead at the end by like 2k value moving a blob around while he narrowly wins. You said you had very low kislev experience while I have seen outerregion play a lot of greenskins. Imho the very strong goblin night bosses and mangler squigs after DLC release will throw a shadow over balance issues for a very long while.
Greenskins are not weak, they’re a pretty solid mid to high mid tier faction. They perform consistently. There’s a few different reasons why I think the orcs struggled here, mainly to do with the matchup itself due to the fact that greenskin cheap infantry spam, as seen here can struggle with armored infantry. The greenskin player also somewhat struggled to utilize Azhag to their full potential as a harassment or lord sniping piece. Perhaps they should have went with Gorbad with a bit of a boar boy spam army, high mobility, good charge dmg, high armor pierce, etc.
It’s equally player error imo, it was definitely winnable.
pls leave the pigbacks be I'm begging you they're the only sustainable infantry piece the Ogres have 😭
Gnoblars and trappers are both great, and we're common meta picks pre-dlc. Bulls are also amazing atm
They shouldn't be able to win the charge trade with units that are 300+ more gold than them it's a little silly. Them and the Bellowers ROR need to be adjusted big time to be less super charged
Those lads are too funny to be out of the meta but we have to make them fair!
First no questions asked! They have to remove the knock back immunity. That is beyond op. You can test them out vs Reiksguard... See how insanely good they do because of that immunity... (Maybe Reiksguard are a bad choice. They are a weak unit for their cost but you get what I mean!)
Also the "bonus vs large of 12 " PLUS a "charge bonus of 30" which is better than some tier 2 infantry...
Is a bit too much... I say pick one of those two stats...
All that for low low price of 400 Khemrian dinars!
That is a steal!
So either reduce those stats, pick one of the two, or increase their cost by 100 to 150...
I... cant believe they released them like that.
@@aziouss2863
The BvL on such a high charge unit is kinda insane. Didn't know they had knockback immunity, that explains why they always do so much damage even when charged by cav
@@turinRTSThe issue currently with pigback riders is more so the pigback knights that can just up trade to a ridiculous degree. Results with the standard pigback riders tend to be more matchup dependent. Ogre bulls are good but the dismember change was frankly in most use cases a general overall nerf as you can no longer place it on infantry blobs and such to ensure that your faster troops will take an objective.
Also in land battle and conquest pigback riders are very costly for the role that they typically end up playing.
I’m not opposed to a pigback rider nerf but the priority should be nerfing pigback knights, cost reducing the new maneaters, making the ogre bruisers and actually viable option (they shouldn’t be 900+ gold base when dragon slayers are 700 base cost). The army ability system also needs to be reviewed or reverted. The army ability generation on charge is a general and oftentimes significant downgrade across the course of a match regardless of mode unless the ogre player is intentionally abusing a bug where you repeatedly start and end charges with a lot of blood vultures.
Also in the scheme of broken stuff this update, the standard pigback rider is pretty reasonable, trading equally or downwards into most infantry which can generally screen them relatively effectively.
I’m just of the opinion that the priority should be issues listed above with ogres and the fact that wrathmongers are objectively broken due to their knockback distances on infantry.
Also pigback riders, despite being frequently taken, are certainly not the optimal choice in every matchup, which is good obviously, mostly due to cost. My concern as an ogre and dark elf main is that if the pigbacks are price increased more they will be zoned out from most matchups due to cost simply because from a price point they have low health and expendable, which is good for balance but could effectively eliminate the usage case of the unit in domination because ogres can already somewhat struggle contesting objectives due to the high proportion of expendable units.
- did not mean to write this much about Pigback riders lol but I think that there are a lot of unappreciated factors to consider before making any balance updates to the unit. I also think that we oftentimes as gamers generally tend to overstate the effectiveness of the new toys we get so I think giving it a little bit more time to play out could potentially be the pragmatic choice. Also as a general rule I’m opposed to any future balance changes to them while they do not have knock back animations because as of now their lack of a knock back animation prevents any and all knockback meaning they trade far to well in counter charges against large pieces, so I worry that if changes are made now and they go back and fix that poor game design they will be nuked in the long to short term, especially given how rarely historically ogres have gotten balance changes.