I just pulled my clutch out of my 2009 K1300S (only 15K and slipping badly) with the help of this and several other vids here. While looking at the oil channels and holes in the basket I noticed several of the channels had the ridge (25:27) and several did not, they were flat, straight thru. The channels with holes on the far side from the pickup did not have a ridge as shown here. The channels with the oil holes on the same side as the oil pickup definitely had the ridge. This helps keep the oil from escaping out the other side and gets it down the right hole. YRMV
THAT was the bearing?! Son-of-a... that's what destroyed my enjoyment of my K1300R. My K1300R was ordered new and rode like a dream until my first service. I don't know what happened at my first service, but what was a dreamy glassy smooth bike was turned into a vibrating piece of shit, and I sold it soon after at significant loss. So much heartache as I lost $20,000 on that transaction and my dream bike ruined. Anyway, I thought maybe the vibrations were due to a loose gear on a layshaft behind the clutch basket near the oil pump chain, but I was just too fed up with the bike. Wish the bearing was diagnosed during my ownership. C'est la vie. Thank you for sharing Terry.
Thanks for this detailed video about don'ts of fluid dynamics. I am still curious about the modifications which lead to amazing clutch response in your other show off video. Cheers
Fantastic video. My K1300GT clutch died at 23k I replaced with the Barnett pack forgot how to put back together and spent two hours on line Eventually got it right the bike runs better than when I bought it and gear changes much better however the past. 6 BMWs I have had all the gear boxes clunk especially when cold.
Thanks for the video, really makes sense. I was watching as I have just changed my clutch to a Barnett pack and I am having issues with the actual clutch working. This causes the bike to stall when I throw it into first. I think I will put the old plates back in and see if the symptoms persist. Anyway, thanks
John Gerrard I’m glad you found it interesting and you took the time to write. I don’t know if you ride a K12 or a K13. But my first guess would be to look at the slave. Sounds like the plates just don’t want to separate. How is it going through the rest of the gears? The first thing I would check would be if the slave is extending its full through. My best deduction is the through is close to 2mm. From the end of the drive shaft to the back of the thrust bearing is about 4.5 mm. So find a few washers that fit over the shaft of the thrust adaptor that are close or a little over 2.5 mm thick. Don’t worry about all of it fitting snug. It’s the 2.5+mm that is the tell. With the pin (thrust adaptor) in the thrust bearing, place the washers on the inside. We want these to ride up against the drive shaft. Just use 4 -6 screws to hold the casing in place. Now with the clutch lever fully extended, pull as far as it will go. I should say do this with the clutch lever before making any of the changes I’m talking about. This is your reference. So after the changes, you should find the lever does not stop in the same place when pulled. If the slave is operating properly, the lever will stop farther from the grip. Those washers are up against the drive shaft. My mind is running backwards. The first thing to try is to adjust the clutch lever to its full extension. If the lever is set close to the grip, the slave is not getting its full compliment of fluid from the master cylinder. This could also contribute to the plates not being able to separate. I hope this makes sense and helps you find out what is happening. Feel free to ask for clarification. It’s the end of the day and my head is in dormant mode!
Terry Asselstine , I have a 2010 K1300s, so after watching your video and realising that I had put everything back together correctly it dawned on me that the gaps are so small (as per your video) , that it would probably be beneficial to run the bike up to temp and spend a few mins pumping the clutch to allow the cage to get oil onto all the plates. I had pre- soaked in oil prior to assembly. Anyway, good new, all is now working as it should and I have my bike back on the road. Thanks for the detail that made me think about the mechanics of it all.
Beyond informative. I'm replacing my clutch plates, and while I'm fairly certain I'm able to do it. Understanding what each part is supposed to do makes it much easier to comprehend. One question tho the bolts holding the "spring" is there a torque spec or can you just tighten em all the way?
I have finished with the mods. The OEM design parameters created limitations in what I could do. The constraints have resulted in having to pause after pulling in the clutch lever to the count of 2-3 before putting it in gear. That amount of time is needed to allow the plates to fling off enough oil to drop quietly into first. If I find the desire to reminisce, I drop it sooner to hear and feel the ‘Klunk’. I want to put some miles on her now to see if there is noticeable wear to the hub and pressure plate. Those are the two areas I got as much oil as I could without inducing the ‘Klunk’. I will do another video after a few thousand kilometres.
After chainging the bearing (nk 35/30 tn ) the clutch drags .. the bike moves even with clutch pulled in.. seems like the bearing is not in correct position tried 4 times to either push it inward or outward with same results.. maybe you came across with this issue
OK, I’m trying to remember the details around that bearing. Mine was a low mileage bike, so wear was not really an issue. I think there was a sleeve that the bearing rode within. If that sleeve was worn it may well be causing friction. You might want to try just turning by hand the bearing within the sleeve to see how that feels. I sold the bike a couple of years ago now. But I hope this points you in a helpful direction.
Great video Terry! One question - do you think the wear indentations that you discussed around minute 37 are preventing the plates from separating at all? The outer basket also has similar indentations from the tabs on the friction plates. Given that a new clutch works OK, there must be some wear factor that makes them get worse over time - I'm wondering if these indentations are part of the issue?
From what I understand, these clutches from new made a large clunk. My bike had 5000 kilometres when I bought it. I don’t know why the tolerances had to be so small. Yes, those dents made by the the friction tabs will impede smooth sliding. I believe the dents are created by two factors. First, just idling the engine in neutral, it is not an absolute steady rpm. The slight increases and decreases will toss those tabs back and forth against the basket. But even more of a contributor is the clunk itself. That smack when dropping into gear are those tabs on the frictions slamming into the bearing surfaces of the basket. Like I noted at the end of the last video, the simplest way to preserve the clutch and minimize wear is to start the bike in first gear. When at a stop do not go into neutral, just pull the clutch in and hold until you are off. The thrust bearing I think is quite robust and cheap to replace if it did fail.
Wanted to know if the clutch basket on a two thousand hundred g t could caused first gear to Lurch and second and third gear and so on are fine. Period thanks
Terry, where is the source of the oil ? Where does it come from, where to check if there enough oil. Is it transmission or engine ? Thanks for the video, great info
The oil travels through the shaft the clutch basket/assemblage rotates on. It’s the shaft that delivers power to the transmission. The oil supplied to the clutch is the same as the oil to the engine. So simply keep an eye on the oil in the sight tube.
Hey Terry, first of all great vid's! Question, you mention the bearing in the clutch basket could be replaced by the INA one. I am thinking about doing that due to the (annoying) rattle when letting go of throttle around 3000rpm. But it is not clear to me how and from what side to press/ pull this bearing out. From what I can see in your video's it seems that this bearing sits locked up. Could you help me out? Iam also driving a K1300r 2009 by the way
I’m not 100% sure which side. But I think I knocked it out the backside of the basket. I took a piece of wood and shaped it just a tad smaller than the diameter of the bearing. I had a board with a slightly bigger hole on the back side. It was tight but with the wood and a rubber mallet it came out with not much complaining. There were suggestions that the, I don’t know what it’s called, extended collar the bearing rides on should also be changed. My bike was very low mileage at the time, so I didn’t replace it. Seems to have worked out. With higher mileage it might be good idea to also change it out.
Thats great. That means I do not need to remove the plate with springs first right? Cause those are with rivets.. Iam just checking the work before I take the bike apart
Yes, and because this compresses the disc/spring, the bolts need to be tightened as one does the bolts on a tire. A sort of crisscross pattern. It is very important to tighten them incrementally. The hub is cast material that will strip under the force of the spring if tightened one at a time. Take your time, I say this from having stripped a post.
The following part (12-14 minutes in) of the commentary seems to be the crux of the issue. I've listened to it about dozen times and this is the best I can make it out. "...pressure plate pushing 2mm ....15 plates....16 spaces with extra the one... the allowance is very very small...so extra oil in there ...would the fluid coupling...which leads to the huge clunk." Can anyone have a go at explaining what this means? What is the actual cause of the clunk? Is it too much oil or too little oil? And why? Thanks
It seems K1300 has a lot of issues from the clutch to timing chain to the electric over hydraulic brakes, what other issues do they have? I owned for 4 years a K1200GT and it also had clutch issues and electric over hydraulic brakes to name a couple.
K1300 does not have the same ABS system the 2004-2007 K1200s/r/gt have, they discontinued the servoassisted brakesystem from manufacturing date 11/07 on all Bmw models. Most common problem with the system was the coals in the electric motor jammed and did not make contact, wich can be fixed, no need for new pumpunit, second is that if owners skipped brakefluidchanges the internal pressure sensors failed, very hard fix. Timing chain issues was addressed early on by installing a reservoir on the tensioner and replacing the 2 O-rings in and on the tensioner. A jumpguard was retrofitted on all k12 and k13 series engines, it sits around the chainsprocket at the crankshaft. 2004-2008 k series bikes has another known issue, the fuelstrip sensor, but that has been permanently fixed by people over at k-bikes.com using k1300 parts and reprogramming. check out the thread "fuel strip thought". www.k-bikes.com/threads/fuel-strip-thought.47211/page-4#post-284476 Biggest issue with the k12 series is the transmission gears not being undercut, that causes it to jump out of gear when it wears, bmw fixed many bikes under warranty by installing the k13 gearbox.
Leveling out the channels does deliver more oil to the centre area holes. These channels deliver oil to both a hole or two and also is counted on for the top of the last steel, the one before the pressure plate. So if more oil is diverted along the way, it can change how much reaches the far end of the channel. What I have found looking at 404’ videos and Patrick Hofmann’s videos, oil or virtually no oil, the middle of the clutch pack shows little wear. The two areas that the right amount of oil is the most important are the hub surface and the pressure place surface. I am going to do another video about my attempts to find what has become an elusive combination of alterations. This is no solution, but a not insignificant contributor to the klunk, is the clutch lever adjustment. The only position of the clutch lever where you get the full throw of the slave, is in the furthest setting. Every notch closer to the grip lessens the throw of the slave which will increase the klunk. The clutch plates are separating less.
Hello Terry, thanks for your reply. I’m due to make adjustments to my k1300R 2010 clutch. (Its the only bad thing about this marvelous bike).I can’t wait for your next update. How long will it take? Greetings from Holland :)
Bert hemmelder yes I have. Between his and Patrick’s videos has convinced me outside of the pressure plate and the hub, oil is not much of an issue. Both have shown dry clutches with severe wear to the hub and pressure plate. The frictions and steels outside those two places looked fine. To me this says very little oil is needed within most of the clutch pack. I know taking this position will raise many voices that will question this.
I just pulled my clutch out of my 2009 K1300S (only 15K and slipping badly) with the help of this and several other vids here. While looking at the oil channels and holes in the basket I noticed several of the channels had the ridge (25:27) and several did not, they were flat, straight thru. The channels with holes on the far side from the pickup did not have a ridge as shown here. The channels with the oil holes on the same side as the oil pickup definitely had the ridge. This helps keep the oil from escaping out the other side and gets it down the right hole.
YRMV
THAT was the bearing?! Son-of-a... that's what destroyed my enjoyment of my K1300R. My K1300R was ordered new and rode like a dream until my first service. I don't know what happened at my first service, but what was a dreamy glassy smooth bike was turned into a vibrating piece of shit, and I sold it soon after at significant loss. So much heartache as I lost $20,000 on that transaction and my dream bike ruined. Anyway, I thought maybe the vibrations were due to a loose gear on a layshaft behind the clutch basket near the oil pump chain, but I was just too fed up with the bike.
Wish the bearing was diagnosed during my ownership. C'est la vie. Thank you for sharing Terry.
Good analisys
Thanks for this detailed video about don'ts of fluid dynamics. I am still curious about the modifications which lead to amazing clutch response in your other show off video.
Cheers
Fantastic video. My K1300GT clutch died at 23k I replaced with the Barnett pack forgot how to put back together and spent two hours on line Eventually got it right the bike runs better than when I bought it and gear changes much better however the past. 6 BMWs I have had all the gear boxes clunk especially when cold.
Thanks for the video, really makes sense.
I was watching as I have just changed my clutch to a Barnett pack and I am having issues with the actual clutch working. This causes the bike to stall when I throw it into first. I think I will put the old plates back in and see if the symptoms persist.
Anyway, thanks
John Gerrard I’m glad you found it interesting and you took the time to write.
I don’t know if you ride a K12 or a K13. But my first guess would be to look at the slave. Sounds like the plates just don’t want to separate. How is it going through the rest of the gears? The first thing I would check would be if the slave is extending its full through. My best deduction is the through is close to 2mm. From the end of the drive shaft to the back of the thrust bearing is about 4.5 mm. So find a few washers that fit over the shaft of the thrust adaptor that are close or a little over 2.5 mm thick. Don’t worry about all of it fitting snug. It’s the 2.5+mm that is the tell. With the pin (thrust adaptor) in the thrust bearing, place the washers on the inside. We want these to ride up against the drive shaft. Just use 4 -6 screws to hold the casing in place. Now with the clutch lever fully extended, pull as far as it will go. I should say do this with the clutch lever before making any of the changes I’m talking about. This is your reference. So after the changes, you should find the lever does not stop in the same place when pulled. If the slave is operating properly, the lever will stop farther from the grip. Those washers are up against the drive shaft.
My mind is running backwards. The first thing to try is to adjust the clutch lever to its full extension. If the lever is set close to the grip, the slave is not getting its full compliment of fluid from the master cylinder. This could also contribute to the plates not being able to separate.
I hope this makes sense and helps you find out what is happening. Feel free to ask for clarification. It’s the end of the day and my head is in dormant mode!
Terry Asselstine , I have a 2010 K1300s, so after watching your video and realising that I had put everything back together correctly it dawned on me that the gaps are so small (as per your video) , that it would probably be beneficial to run the bike up to temp and spend a few mins pumping the clutch to allow the cage to get oil onto all the plates. I had pre- soaked in oil prior to assembly.
Anyway, good new, all is now working as it should and I have my bike back on the road.
Thanks for the detail that made me think about the mechanics of it all.
Beyond informative. I'm replacing my clutch plates, and while I'm fairly certain I'm able to do it. Understanding what each part is supposed to do makes it much easier to comprehend.
One question tho the bolts holding the "spring" is there a torque spec or can you just tighten em all the way?
I have finished with the mods. The OEM design parameters created limitations in what I could do. The constraints have resulted in having to pause after pulling in the clutch lever to the count of 2-3 before putting it in gear. That amount of time is needed to allow the plates to fling off enough oil to drop quietly into first. If I find the desire to reminisce, I drop it sooner to hear and feel the ‘Klunk’. I want to put some miles on her now to see if there is noticeable wear to the hub and pressure plate. Those are the two areas I got as much oil as I could without inducing the ‘Klunk’. I will do another video after a few thousand kilometres.
After chainging the bearing (nk 35/30 tn ) the clutch drags .. the bike moves even with clutch pulled in.. seems like the bearing is not in correct position tried 4 times to either push it inward or outward with same results.. maybe you came across with this issue
skf bearing
OK, I’m trying to remember the details around that bearing. Mine was a low mileage bike, so wear was not really an issue. I think there was a sleeve that the bearing rode within. If that sleeve was worn it may well be causing friction. You might want to try just turning by hand the bearing within the sleeve to see how that feels.
I sold the bike a couple of years ago now. But I hope this points you in a helpful direction.
Great video Terry! One question - do you think the wear indentations that you discussed around minute 37 are preventing the plates from separating at all? The outer basket also has similar indentations from the tabs on the friction plates. Given that a new clutch works OK, there must be some wear factor that makes them get worse over time - I'm wondering if these indentations are part of the issue?
From what I understand, these clutches from new made a large clunk. My bike had 5000 kilometres when I bought it. I don’t know why the tolerances had to be so small. Yes, those dents made by the the friction tabs will impede smooth sliding. I believe the dents are created by two factors. First, just idling the engine in neutral, it is not an absolute steady rpm. The slight increases and decreases will toss those tabs back and forth against the basket. But even more of a contributor is the clunk itself. That smack when dropping into gear are those tabs on the frictions slamming into the bearing surfaces of the basket.
Like I noted at the end of the last video, the simplest way to preserve the clutch and minimize wear is to start the bike in first gear. When at a stop do not go into neutral, just pull the clutch in and hold until you are off. The thrust bearing I think is quite robust and cheap to replace if it did fail.
Wanted to know if the clutch basket on a two thousand hundred g t could caused first gear to Lurch and second and third gear and so on are fine.
Period thanks
Hi Terry, Thank you for the info. I have a 2005 K1200S, may need clutch done, do you provide this service? are you in the Toronto area? Thx again
I just picked up a 2015 K1300S with 18000km on it. There's a noticeable vibration when I back off the throttle. Could it be the clutch bearing?
Terry, where is the source of the oil ? Where does it come from, where to check if there enough oil. Is it transmission or engine ?
Thanks for the video, great info
The oil travels through the shaft the clutch basket/assemblage rotates on. It’s the shaft that delivers power to the transmission. The oil supplied to the clutch is the same as the oil to the engine. So simply keep an eye on the oil in the sight tube.
Hey Terry, first of all great vid's! Question, you mention the bearing in the clutch basket could be replaced by the INA one. I am thinking about doing that due to the (annoying) rattle when letting go of throttle around 3000rpm. But it is not clear to me how and from what side to press/ pull this bearing out. From what I can see in your video's it seems that this bearing sits locked up. Could you help me out? Iam also driving a K1300r 2009 by the way
I’m not 100% sure which side. But I think I knocked it out the backside of the basket. I took a piece of wood and shaped it just a tad smaller than the diameter of the bearing. I had a board with a slightly bigger hole on the back side. It was tight but with the wood and a rubber mallet it came out with not much complaining. There were suggestions that the, I don’t know what it’s called, extended collar the bearing rides on should also be changed. My bike was very low mileage at the time, so I didn’t replace it. Seems to have worked out. With higher mileage it might be good idea to also change it out.
Thats great. That means I do not need to remove the plate with springs first right? Cause those are with rivets.. Iam just checking the work before I take the bike apart
@@aron4052 right. You can leave that gear on the basket.
Hello I wanted to ask the 6 screws that go to tighten the spring above at the top of the cup must be tightened all the way?
Thanks in advance
Yes, and because this compresses the disc/spring, the bolts need to be tightened as one does the bolts on a tire. A sort of crisscross pattern. It is very important to tighten them incrementally. The hub is cast material that will strip under the force of the spring if tightened one at a time. Take your time, I say this from having stripped a post.
The following part (12-14 minutes in) of the commentary seems to be the crux of the issue. I've listened to it about dozen times and this is the best I can make it out. "...pressure plate pushing 2mm ....15 plates....16 spaces with extra the one... the allowance is very very small...so extra oil in there ...would the fluid coupling...which leads to the huge clunk." Can anyone have a go at explaining what this means? What is the actual cause of the clunk? Is it too much oil or too little oil? And why? Thanks
It seems K1300 has a lot of issues from the clutch to timing chain to the electric over hydraulic brakes, what other issues do they have?
I owned for 4 years a K1200GT and it also had clutch issues and electric over hydraulic brakes to name a couple.
K1300 does not have the same ABS system the 2004-2007 K1200s/r/gt have, they discontinued the servoassisted brakesystem from manufacturing date 11/07 on all Bmw models. Most common problem with the system was the coals in the electric motor jammed and did not make contact, wich can be fixed, no need for new pumpunit, second is that if owners skipped brakefluidchanges the internal pressure sensors failed, very hard fix.
Timing chain issues was addressed early on by installing a reservoir on the tensioner and replacing the 2 O-rings in and on the tensioner. A jumpguard was retrofitted on all k12 and k13 series engines, it sits around the chainsprocket at the crankshaft.
2004-2008 k series bikes has another known issue, the fuelstrip sensor, but that has been permanently fixed by people over at k-bikes.com using k1300 parts and reprogramming. check out the thread "fuel strip thought". www.k-bikes.com/threads/fuel-strip-thought.47211/page-4#post-284476
Biggest issue with the k12 series is the transmission gears not being undercut, that causes it to jump out of gear when it wears, bmw fixed many bikes under warranty by installing the k13 gearbox.
@@dralkohol very cool info thank you muchly.
Why not drill the holes in the middle a little bigger? And level the passage?
Leveling out the channels does deliver more oil to the centre area holes. These channels deliver oil to both a hole or two and also is counted on for the top of the last steel, the one before the pressure plate. So if more oil is diverted along the way, it can change how much reaches the far end of the channel. What I have found looking at 404’ videos and Patrick Hofmann’s videos, oil or virtually no oil, the middle of the clutch pack shows little wear. The two areas that the right amount of oil is the most important are the hub surface and the pressure place surface. I am going to do another video about my attempts to find what has become an elusive combination of alterations. This is no solution, but a not insignificant contributor to the klunk, is the clutch lever adjustment. The only position of the clutch lever where you get the full throw of the slave, is in the furthest setting. Every notch closer to the grip lessens the throw of the slave which will increase the klunk. The clutch plates are separating less.
Hello Terry, thanks for your reply. I’m due to make adjustments to my k1300R 2010 clutch. (Its the only bad thing about this marvelous bike).I can’t wait for your next update. How long will it take? Greetings from Holland :)
Ps: did you also looked at the Sharealike1 videos?
Bert hemmelder yes I have. Between his and Patrick’s videos has convinced me outside of the pressure plate and the hub, oil is not much of an issue. Both have shown dry clutches with severe wear to the hub and pressure plate. The frictions and steels outside those two places looked fine. To me this says very little oil is needed within most of the clutch pack. I know taking this position will raise many voices that will question this.