Oh lord. So much wrong just in the first 2 minutes, but there is some good information here. Flat roof options include TPO, PVC, EPDM, MOD BIT, BUILT UP, CPE, CSPE, SPF. A flat roofs are generally defined as any roof below a 2/12 slope, although many places have redefined this as a 3/12 or even 4/12 slope. TPO was introduced on the market in the late 1980s, making it almost 36 years old at the time of this video. Now I will add to this argument, because a lot of people say that hear welded seeds and TPO are a lot more durable, but if you actually look at them statistically in real-world application, while they have a greater bonding strengths initially as far as how much force it would take to pull them apart, their actual strength say the last year and they eventually break apart at a quicker rate than EPDM is known to. White and black, and you can get it. The vast majority of TPO is white tan and gray, however they do have options like green blue brown add more. The thing about color TPO is is that TPO has a much lower heat resistance, so the darker the color the more risk you have with prematurely failing due to heat. And that's why even though black was offered in the late eighties, most brands have discontinued it or require it be done at such a thickness that it is not economically feasible when compared to other membranes. Now there's going to be a lot of people complaining about the 15 to 20 year comment with tpo. And there's reasons for this, if you look at the older people. It was designed 30 years ago it usually filled within about 7 to 10 years, with very few survivors, it should be noted that modern TPO is made a lot different than the older TPO down to its ingredients and insulation details, so we actually don't know it's longevity for sure, however we can say that statistically over half of the TPO ever installed was made within the last 15 years. If we look at actual real-world applications, the average lifespan of TPO is closer to about 7 years because the fact of the matter is is that it was so unpopular and so poorly made initially. You still see a lot of them failing prematurely in the first decade even though they're sold as a 20 to 30 year roof. EPDM on the other hand used to fail within the first 15 to 20 years due to improper installation. However we also know that when EPDM is properly installed it can last over 50 years. So epdm is by far the better choice. I'm sorry did you just say Goodyear EPDM roof. See now I'm concerned how old what your information you're getting is, because Goodyear EPDM stopped existing over 20 years ago, they got bought out by a company known as Carlisle, and is now called Versico. And the thing about EPDM is, the absolute number one thing about epdm, is that if you have a bad contractor it will fail worse than any of the others. I will genuinely say as a professional commercial flat Roofing consultant, EPDM is the best roof on the market right now, however I recommend it less often than other membranes because it is so hard to find a contractor that has a single clue what they're doing. As far as the torch down comment. I don't like torch anymore, mostly because I think it's a lost art form, and residential torch roofers are absolute garbage, but I might trust torch before I trust TPO On the parapet wall, technically it is required to go up at least eight inches or as much as 12 in depended on the manufacturer. There is not a single manufacturer out there that says it is appropriate to the only go up one or two inches, but because residential you don't have anybody inspecting it contractors just do it to be cheap and to avoid having to play it, which is yet again to announce cheap. So the question is whether they used EPS foam or if they use polyiso. Polyiso is actually better and more compatible with EPDM, but cost a little more. Well worth that cost though both for the insulating capabilities as well as the expansion and contraction. On the comments of slope, you actually touched on it very accurately that an 812 will drain even if you don't have a waterproof surface on it. It's actually known as the difference between hydrostatic, and hydrokinetic systems. A hydrokinetic system like shingles works because gravity is pushing the water. Shingles are not by and large waterproof, and in fact there are thousands of gaps that it could leak inside, where is EPDM is a hydrostatic system, which can even have water ponding on top of it and is still waterproof. EPDM after 20 years will require some maintenance at the seams, and it will require it again at about 30, 35, 40, so on. However, that maintenance is still cheaper than what you would spend on TPO in maintenance and replacements. A ballasted roof should never have gravel by the way. It's supposed to have river rock or potato rock, gravel was more meant and designed for the use of tar and gravel roofs, where is EPDM is more designed for larger smoother rocks. That rock protects against uv, extensive life of the membrane, allows for better expansion and contraction even though eventually that can cause issues at the walls which is a part of the regular maintenance, and overall ballasted EPDM has a greater history as well as durability. The main issues with ballasted EPDM is that it has a lower wind resistance, is harder to repair, has a higher cost of maintenance, a higher labor cost, and is heavy. But it does add a barrier from the Sun that reduces the heat on the roof, and actually add some insulation value. To summarize. That roof looks beautiful from what we can see, EPDM is the best flat roof but only if you have the best contractor installing it. EPDM>PVC>BUR>CPE/CSPE>MODBIT>TPO>SPF>LAR
Roofingfacts! Thanks for commenting and thanks for all the info. I love a long, informed comment that helps to educate and drive the conversation. I have some education on my part to do. All good points.
I just received an estimate for roofing, siding, windows on my home. I have a 12×20' aluminum sunroom that leaks, an epmd roof was recommended (6k). Do you think this is an appropriate material? Trying to educate myself on this product but don't see much for my proposed application. Any thoughts or questions I should ask? Any advice would much be appreciated.
Is your sheathing beneath the EPDM also ZIP? Any special considerations/ adhesives required over the XIP coating? Is the sheathing beneath seam taped, or is that redundant if EPDM is adhered over ZIP?
The sheathing beneath the EPDM is Zip with the seams taped, and there is tapered foam between the two layers. We wanted the seams taped on the Zip for air control and posibly a little extra water protection if we ever did have a leak in the EPDM. But really if we get through the EPDM we have a failure that will cause a problem eventually.
So if you're doing direct attachment of the epdm, you cannot glue it to the tape used on the seams of the Zip system. You can still do mechanically attached but you shouldn't do it here adhere. What you can do though is just put in a small barrier like a quarter inch gypsum or polyiso for insulation, and that eliminates the concern
Oh lord. So much wrong just in the first 2 minutes, but there is some good information here.
Flat roof options include TPO, PVC, EPDM, MOD BIT, BUILT UP, CPE, CSPE, SPF.
A flat roofs are generally defined as any roof below a 2/12 slope, although many places have redefined this as a 3/12 or even 4/12 slope.
TPO was introduced on the market in the late 1980s, making it almost 36 years old at the time of this video.
Now I will add to this argument, because a lot of people say that hear welded seeds and TPO are a lot more durable, but if you actually look at them statistically in real-world application, while they have a greater bonding strengths initially as far as how much force it would take to pull them apart, their actual strength say the last year and they eventually break apart at a quicker rate than EPDM is known to.
White and black, and you can get it. The vast majority of TPO is white tan and gray, however they do have options like green blue brown add more. The thing about color TPO is is that TPO has a much lower heat resistance, so the darker the color the more risk you have with prematurely failing due to heat. And that's why even though black was offered in the late eighties, most brands have discontinued it or require it be done at such a thickness that it is not economically feasible when compared to other membranes.
Now there's going to be a lot of people complaining about the 15 to 20 year comment with tpo. And there's reasons for this, if you look at the older people. It was designed 30 years ago it usually filled within about 7 to 10 years, with very few survivors, it should be noted that modern TPO is made a lot different than the older TPO down to its ingredients and insulation details, so we actually don't know it's longevity for sure, however we can say that statistically over half of the TPO ever installed was made within the last 15 years. If we look at actual real-world applications, the average lifespan of TPO is closer to about 7 years because the fact of the matter is is that it was so unpopular and so poorly made initially. You still see a lot of them failing prematurely in the first decade even though they're sold as a 20 to 30 year roof. EPDM on the other hand used to fail within the first 15 to 20 years due to improper installation. However we also know that when EPDM is properly installed it can last over 50 years. So epdm is by far the better choice.
I'm sorry did you just say Goodyear EPDM roof. See now I'm concerned how old what your information you're getting is, because Goodyear EPDM stopped existing over 20 years ago, they got bought out by a company known as Carlisle, and is now called Versico.
And the thing about EPDM is, the absolute number one thing about epdm, is that if you have a bad contractor it will fail worse than any of the others. I will genuinely say as a professional commercial flat Roofing consultant, EPDM is the best roof on the market right now, however I recommend it less often than other membranes because it is so hard to find a contractor that has a single clue what they're doing.
As far as the torch down comment. I don't like torch anymore, mostly because I think it's a lost art form, and residential torch roofers are absolute garbage, but I might trust torch before I trust TPO
On the parapet wall, technically it is required to go up at least eight inches or as much as 12 in depended on the manufacturer. There is not a single manufacturer out there that says it is appropriate to the only go up one or two inches, but because residential you don't have anybody inspecting it contractors just do it to be cheap and to avoid having to play it, which is yet again to announce cheap.
So the question is whether they used EPS foam or if they use polyiso. Polyiso is actually better and more compatible with EPDM, but cost a little more. Well worth that cost though both for the insulating capabilities as well as the expansion and contraction.
On the comments of slope, you actually touched on it very accurately that an 812 will drain even if you don't have a waterproof surface on it. It's actually known as the difference between hydrostatic, and hydrokinetic systems. A hydrokinetic system like shingles works because gravity is pushing the water. Shingles are not by and large waterproof, and in fact there are thousands of gaps that it could leak inside, where is EPDM is a hydrostatic system, which can even have water ponding on top of it and is still waterproof.
EPDM after 20 years will require some maintenance at the seams, and it will require it again at about 30, 35, 40, so on. However, that maintenance is still cheaper than what you would spend on TPO in maintenance and replacements.
A ballasted roof should never have gravel by the way. It's supposed to have river rock or potato rock, gravel was more meant and designed for the use of tar and gravel roofs, where is EPDM is more designed for larger smoother rocks. That rock protects against uv, extensive life of the membrane, allows for better expansion and contraction even though eventually that can cause issues at the walls which is a part of the regular maintenance, and overall ballasted EPDM has a greater history as well as durability. The main issues with ballasted EPDM is that it has a lower wind resistance, is harder to repair, has a higher cost of maintenance, a higher labor cost, and is heavy. But it does add a barrier from the Sun that reduces the heat on the roof, and actually add some insulation value.
To summarize. That roof looks beautiful from what we can see, EPDM is the best flat roof but only if you have the best contractor installing it. EPDM>PVC>BUR>CPE/CSPE>MODBIT>TPO>SPF>LAR
Roofingfacts! Thanks for commenting and thanks for all the info. I love a long, informed comment that helps to educate and drive the conversation. I have some education on my part to do. All good points.
I just received an estimate for roofing, siding, windows on my home. I have a 12×20' aluminum sunroom that leaks, an epmd roof was recommended (6k). Do you think this is an appropriate material? Trying to educate myself on this product but don't see much for my proposed application. Any thoughts or questions I should ask? Any advice would much be appreciated.
Is your sheathing beneath the EPDM also ZIP? Any special considerations/ adhesives required over the XIP coating? Is the sheathing beneath seam taped, or is that redundant if EPDM is adhered over ZIP?
The sheathing beneath the EPDM is Zip with the seams taped, and there is tapered foam between the two layers. We wanted the seams taped on the Zip for air control and posibly a little extra water protection if we ever did have a leak in the EPDM. But really if we get through the EPDM we have a failure that will cause a problem eventually.
@@jake.bruton.aarow.building that’s mainly what I was curious about: if the pro’s are ok with going over zip and zip tape with EPDM adhesive
So if you're doing direct attachment of the epdm, you cannot glue it to the tape used on the seams of the Zip system. You can still do mechanically attached but you shouldn't do it here adhere. What you can do though is just put in a small barrier like a quarter inch gypsum or polyiso for insulation, and that eliminates the concern