I put Gibson conversion necks on my Tele's. It's only 3/4 of an inch but it makes a difference when you have arthritis. Not having to reach that bit more brings the pain level down considerably and lets me play for longer.
I bought 2 Jackson Fusion guitars from the early 90's. Gibson scale on a Super Strat. I am getting arthritic in my old age and it is definitely more comfortable.
@@IrateWizrd That's another advantage. Let's face it, women generally have smaller hands and bending strings can be challenging at high tension. The shorter scale length does help with that. But, it also changes the tone just a bit; the high b and e strings seem to be less brittle with the shorter scale length.
These special finishes are only available starting next Monday, and will probably sell out within the first couple days. Colleges will be around forever. My recommendation is to postpone your education, drop out of school, and drain your savings to buy one of these bodies. If you've received any Pell grants or student loans I would see if you can use those funds too. This will only set your career goals back a year, which is no big deal at all. I mean, you're young...you have all the time in the world. It's possible your earning power over the course of your career could suffer as well, but only by, like, 17% or so...which can easily be made up for by not investing in any kind of 401k, IRA, or other retirement plan. That's what I would do, anyway.
How could I have missed this one?! It's so great that you go this far to put common hypotheses to a real world sound test and let us all know Aaron! And your playing and tone is outstanding and fun, too! Rock on!
Seriously man, your tone is incredible. Even listening through my phone, your note definition is amazing. You know how to wring the best out of that beautiful guitar! Great technique AND feel.
About a month ago I bought a Gibson-Scale neck for my Telecaster. It has a compound radius of 10”-16”, Tusq XL nut, and 6105 frets. I hear no difference In my Tele, but it plays a helluva lot easier now. I’d highly recommend a conversion neck if you’re getting older like me and you’re getting tired of stretching for notes.
Is the guitar in your TC Electronics Mojo Mojo Demo video, a Warmoth? That tele sounds GREAT, and your playing is awesome too. You should post more videos of you playing your Warmoth guitars. I'm always look for videos of good guitarists playing Warmoth. Sending a subscription your way.
A lot of people say they hear a strong difference between the two necks. I thought so too when I first got my conversion neck -- my first Warmoth purchase. Then I spent the next six months swapping back and forth almost like some schizo nervous tick trying to suss out every nuance to decide which was better. After seemingly 100 swaps I came to the conclusion that the sounds were nearly identical and most perceived differences were mirages. The 25.5 stock Fender neck had a bit more deep resonance in the neck position when playing clean-clear (a skosh to use the term in its native context), but not enough to be a deal breaker for the conversion neck. The conversion did a bit better for distortion in the bridge position. (That might also be partly due to the stouter Modern Construction.) Cumulatively for me, the Gibson scale paired with the flatter compound radius and slightly thinner Standard Thin neck profile just makes it so much easier to play. I get more out of the guitar -- which for me means I sound better playing the conversion. So much so that I eventually went all in on the 7/8ths series --- best thing that has happened to me in 35 years plus of playing. I put the stock Fender neck back on the Strat (which is a bit ratty after 20 years of hard use and several worldwide moves, like a well worn baseball glove) just so I can occasionally compare to the 7/8 S-Style guitar. The 7/8 wins every time by knockout in the opening seconds of the first round. It clubs my Les Paul senseless too. No contest.
Like he said there are small differences, mostly on the clear string picking sounds. I could tell, before he said which neck was which, that there was a small treble loss on the second neck. I'm pretty sure it won't make a difference on a live setting, but you could hear them if you're a bedroom player/sound chaser. Then again a turn on the amp treble should, theoretically, take care of that.
I agree with your assessment.. the difference is really not in the sound.. it is in playability. ... bending is easier.... and less stretching on difficult chords.. the real sound change is most likely due to the strings... to be really fair.. the string tensions should be measured here as well... maybe a better test would be have 0.10s on the 25.5 and 0.11s on the 24.75... the tension of the strings certainly will yield some tonal differences...
I happened to guess correctly. The give away was your bends were "wilder" on the guitar #2, going a bit too sharp. I like to go up to the next higher string gauge on shorter scales so that my bends are about right, so I use 9-42 on my Strat, 10-46 on my Les Paul and Gretsch. It's very cool that you can convert a bolt-on guitar to a different scale by replacing the neck, such as 24.75" or baritone. As for converting a Strat to 24 3/4", it's more of a feel thing than a sound thing.
I caught that too, Lawrence. He was using his normal Fender muscle memory and pushing those bends a bit sharp on the Gibson-scaled neck. My carpenter sense was telling me Neck #2 looked a little shorter as well. I'm glad somebody is making this choice available and I trust Warmoth to build top quality stuff. I may have to get a 24.75" replacement neck for my Schecter PT and see if it gets me playing it more.
Everyone always references scales lengths in terms of how one type is easier to play over another in respect to tension. I believe a far more important metric to gauge them by is that the shorter scale provides an advantage to players with smaller hands and shorter fingers. No one ever references scale lengths in terms of how uncomfortable a strat scale can be due to having to stretch further. There needs to be way more discussion in terms of hand size when it come to choosing a guitar neck. I think it would help more people get in to the instrument.
I'll admit to having small hands. Does the Gibson conversion help? Eh, maybe. The difference is actually very slight ...3/4 of an inch spread over the entire scale length....so it really does not help small hands very much. I can move between the conversion and my regular scale Strat without even noticing. I also have a Les Paul which is (obviously) a Gibson scale 24.75, but the neck is chunky and wide and the shorter scale length makes no difference there for my hand. I have both a Warmoth conversion scale and a Warmoth standard scale in the Standard Thin neck profile and 1-5/8 nut width....and that DOES make a huge difference on both necks.
My hands are on the smaller side of normal and it can feel like I’m treading water and just getting by on a fender when I have to fret chords that require stretch while on a gibson i just feel more confident and flow-y
Thank you for doing this, I've been waiting! I agree, there is a difference, but it is very slight. And for me, that subtle difference is insignificant next to the Improved playability I find on the shorter scale.
I could tell right away that Neck#2 was the Gibson scale. I was pleased with the tone of both necks, however I love the feel of 24.75" scale length guitars. I just wish that all of the options of a 25.5 scale length neck were available for the Gibson scale. Specifically the nut width. I want a strat neck with a 24.75" scale length and a 1 3/4 nut width on a 59' contour. Can't always get everything ya want though.
I love how meticulous these tests are. I could tell that the bottom loosened up a bit for the short scale neck but it wasn't a major deal. I think the real difference is the Tune-o-matic vs. the Fender Tremolo, and then the bolt on vs. set neck. Would be kind of fun to have a test guitar which got fitted a fixed bridge (maybe even a low profile Tune-o-matic), then later got routed out for a strat style trem. You could also get ridiculous and glue in the neck.
Since I play a 25 1/2 scale it was easy to notice the difference. With a 25 and a half scale there's more low end growl, low string notes swell to the overall sound. Lots of depth. With the 24 3/4 scale it sounded more balanced across the frequencies. Very even sound. Maybe a little less bite, or cut through on the pick attack. Which explains why does Paul's or Gibson's in general have such a sweet sound to the notes.
I really enjoy these videos! There's so much argument on the Internet but, next to no one is actually testing the sweeping statements people make. Warmoth should definitely find it in their budget to do a few more of these comparison videos, if nothing else they show a good looking guitar that sounds good that belongs to their brand. For the record I have a strat made from warmoth parts and while I'm happy with my decisions, it would have been great to hear the differences between the body woods, neck woods, neck shapes etc.
Thanks for the great comparisons you do. This was very interesting. I was surprised at how close the sound is but at the same time, I find I prefer the sound of the Gibson scale conversion neck every so slightly to the 25 1/2" scale neck. This is great for me because for some reason the older I get, I find I can't quite stretch my fingers across 7 frets without pain like I used to be able to. I can do it on my acoustic which is 24 3/4" so I'll be picking up a couple of these conversion necks.
First, thanks Aaron you do the tests that we would do if we had the time and materials. They help me to decide which parts and materials to order. Second, thanks for choosing the mahogany body with maple top to use with humbuckers. That is the right combination. I listened first on my Samsung tablet and couldn't hear a difference. So I move over to my desktop with the 3 speaker sound system but still didn't really hear any difference between the two necks. I even listened with my eyes closed hoping that would help but if I heard any difference it was only on the neck pick up and it was very slight. So now I would like you, if possible, to do it again with the same necks but this time with an ash body and single coils. And if possible add some 1 1/2 step bends down around the 17th fret. Thanks again.
One thing that changes a lot is where your harmonics are compared to the PU. You can't use your 5 fret harmonic with your neck PU on a strat or tele because the PUs are right at the "node" of string vibration. With the conversion necks, that node is moved far enough that you can hear it with all PUs. Another very cool option you might want to do a video on is the 7/8 scale bodies and neck. Not only do you get the 24 3/4 " scale, but you also get a 24 fret neck (I built one and love it).
Excellent, marvelous, thank you. This last year or two I've been putting Fender-scale Squier necks on Epiphone bodies and Epiphone necks on Squier bodies, just screwing around. It's not as difficult as one might think. You only have to change the distance from neck butt to bridge by 3/16". On a Tele you can do that with intonation screws. Going the other way is a little messier but so what. None of these guitars is precious. As for the demo, it came out about what I expected. The long scale is what I like better hearing someone else play. The Gibson scale is what I like better hearing me play.
So I put this conversion neck on my player strat, actually I had help putting it on. It fit perfect but I didn't order tuners so I took tuners off the fender neck but the Warmoth neck didn't have the two tiny holes that the two tuner pegs go into so I tried to drill the holes but screwed it up and had to take it to a friend to fix. The Warmoth neck didn't have string tree, so I screwed that up, drilling a hole, so took it to friend again. Now it's all set up and I'm loving it, I got small, Hobbit hands, and was ready to give up on Strats but this changed everything! It's a good compromise bet/ 24 inch neck, which has a tone I'm not always liking and the larger 25 1/2 inch strat, also the Gibson/ Epiphone necks , although 24 3/4 inch, have the wider nut and flatter radius, making certain chords uncomfortable, playing a D or Eb chord with the C form.
Recently got a baked maple conversion neck for a Reverend Flatroc. I also put TV Jones Filtertron classics and a Bigsby on it and it plays amazing. If there's anyone on the fence about baked maple necks, do not hesitate another minute. The comfort and feel are dream like. I'm currently saving up to get one for my Strat. And then, it's time to build a Tele. Of course the only place to start is at Warmoth.
I built a 25-1/2” scale length Warmoth Les Paul. Such a unique sound; and it plays like butter. I think my favorite thing about that guitar is the unfinished rosewood I used for the neck. The body is mahogany with a carved maple top. No sticky coatings on the back of the neck. Ebony board, standard thin contour compound radius neck. Love it. It’s just comfortable as hell.
Conversion neck tone is so good, regular scale necks have a more open response that favors the bridge bringing out the best that position offers with more texture and zing.
Wow, that finish looks so awesome! One of the most beautiful guitars I've ever seen. And it just sounds great. Very interesting, comparing the sound, I had been pretty sure it would've been the other way around. To me the conversion neck had more definition and clarity to it. I think, this will probably be totally different when played in lower tunings, drop C for example.
You have re-enforced what I always thought the differences would be. Heard just a tiny bit more edge/bite on the 25.5, bridge pickup on chords clean or slight overdrive. Not so much when distorted or playing single notes or or on the neck pickup. Two thumbs up. Keep these videos coming. :-)
I have a sweet Fender Player Telecaster body with a Warmoth Telecaster Conversion Neck with an Indian Rosewood Fretboard. I’m trying to sell it but it really makes a difference in those chord stretches and bends.
Hello! I've got to say, this is one of the best tests i've ever seen. I was wondering if you guys can run a test on Guitar Body weight. I'm a bassist and saw Tom Stenback's basses and they have this little feature where you can add some weights to the body and it may affect the tone. It got me really curious since I can swear I heard a little more definition to the sound (more focused... less "airy", which, for me, is worse). So, my suggestion is, test 3 guitar / basses bodies that are made of the same wood, however, have different densities (light, heavy and in between) to chck if it affects tone. Once again, congratulations on the tests! Cheers!
I was watching this vid to convince myself to get a Gibson scale for my tele but after hearing the sound comparison I actually like the standard scale much better lol I guess it's still a good thing I watched this to be sure!!!
Funny that I just sent you an email asking questions about my purchase, and here is one of the answers. Gibson conversion is the answer. Cool now I know.
Great demo! Thank you for using common gear. So many demos & reviews are done on boutique & super $$$ gear, it’s hard to know what you are really hearing.
Thanks so much much for the actually scientific comparison. As with anything this subtle, I had times when I preferred #1 and times when I preferred #2, but neither by anything remotely resembling a landslide. And, I had them wrong to begin with, so no confirmation bias I suppose. Great job sir!!
Man I need to do another build with your parts. I love my Precision and I'm thinking it needs a sibling. Might have to spring and get your Mooncaster bass.
As I listened I thought for sure that Neck 2 was the Fender length. It seemed to sound a little better on everything you did. I figured the sound of neck one was the sonic cost of the conversion. But I was pleasantly surprised when you said that neck 2, my preferred sonic choice, was the conversion neck. So now that I'm older and my hands are giving me some pain, I will have no problem putting a conversion neck on my strat.
I too felt Neck 2 sounded a bit better. There is a bit more sweetness and magic in its sound. I guessed correctly that it was the conversion neck because I'm used to hearing this quality when using lighter gauge strings.
Thanks for this. I liked the neck 1 tone better immediately, and suspected it was the Fender scale one. It most noticeable to me on the clean settings.
Back in the 90's I had two Hamer set neck Chaparral's. One was a 1986 model with 24.75" scale and the other was a 1987 model with 25.5" scale. The difference in tone mirrored this video. The shorter scale was warmer and the longer scale was snappier...
great video! Im wondering, with all these shootout tests, I cant thinking that it would be intersting to hear it through something like a marshall amp thats a bit more midrangy. where a fender is a little more scooped. since some of these differences occur in the middle range, in my experience at least. but thanks for a great video. you're doing a really great job here :)
The conversion neck sounded a bit sweeter, less strident with the same gauge of strings. It is because I would like to use 9.5-44 strings that I'm thinking of a conversion neck. Currently I'm on 8.5-40 with a standard fender scale length in order to have sweetness of sound while tremolo decked.
Great video... i think the basic reason to go with a conversion neck is really not to change the tone.. but to increase the comfort. String bending is also easier on the hands... some tone change will also result and maybe the real source of any change in tone.. in the fact that if you use the same string gauge.. the strings will be less taught on the 24.75 inch neck.. this will certainly change the tone somewhat... and also will almost feel like going with a lighter string gauge.. I think the question that should be answered here beyond the sound issue is: What was the difference in comfort and ease of playing between the 2 configurations.
Just started learning guitar recently and been playing on a telecaster. Thinking about selling it and getting an SG. I have short fingers so i feel the shorter scale length could be a huge help with my playing.
No idea what riff that was when you did the middle position distortion test, but it was awesome and it's stuck in my head haha Also, that guitar looks badass.
That seems about as perfect a test as anyone could perform - thanks! I was wondering if my strat style guitars would lose their snarl if I converted, so this helps answer that question a lot.
I guessed correctly, but I hear it slightly differently. I think that it slightly flattens and widens the mid curve - easiest to tell the difference on the neck pickup where the pickup has moved slightly off that 24th harmonic (think John Sykes). They both sound great.
I have a gibson scale mahogany/rosewood neck from you guys (for my mahogany HH tele) and i'll be ordering soon a regular scale identical specs one to try. In the particular shootout I'd say that the general feeling for me, more than thicker, is more scooped, for the gibson scale. It feels hollow, less defined, less punchy in the mids, by comparison. Which would make sense as a way to tame a whole mahogany construction and humbucker pickups!
How did you get on with your tele? i have the same spec on order, looking forward to putting it together - kind of inspired by that Cecil Alexander chap on IG.
Technically, when you change the neck to change the scale length, you also change the pickup position in relation to scale length. That's why the Gibson neck picked up that pinch harmonic a little better. I'm curious to see what would happen if you normalized the pickup locations based on the percentage of scale length.
The most pronounced tone difference I felt like was the middle position. The middle sounded chirpier, more what I expect from a Gibson middle position. The others you could tell #2 was thicker, but it wasn't as big a difference as I expected.
Peter Griffin: Sir, you had me when you flashed the horns. Here is a check with my name on it. Write down any number on this piece of paper and I will pay it.
I just ordered a ⅞ S-style neck/body...(roasted flamed maple, SS jumbos, holoflake finish woohooo!) I think its more of a playability thing here. I grew up a strat styled guitat guy. I recently got a carvin(25" scale) and after playing it for a second my eyes widened and i got super nervous. I knew all my other guitars were ruined for me in that very moment(schecter hellraiser hybrid, ibanez rg521/ibanez js24p/az242f, ltd/esp M-1000ht koa) and i was right. Iv tried to go back to them and the love that was once there is 100% gone. At 1st i chocked it up to the carvin being a USA custom shop and it was just that better. I hadn't realized it was a scale thing yet and ended up trading the rg521 for a bc rich mockingbird legacy ST(24¾" scale) and i was shocked when the playability was nearly identical, but mainly i had another guitar i liked(at that point i never played my other 4). I went back to the ibanez az242f and realized I think ill like it again if i switch it to 9s...but gibson scale is just so much incredibly easier to play. It makes my strat scaled guitars seem like i have to work against it to play when gibson scale makes me feel free to play to the best of my abilities.
Thanks for the demo. At some point I'd love to see a demo of the same BUT with Single Coil Pickups. I'm curious to know if positions 2 & 4 (Strat quack) makes a difference with a shorter scale (Gibson) neck.
I hear with the Gibson scale conversion you need a little higher action because the shorter string length needs more room to wobble. What is everyone’s experience with this? As someone with smaller hands, I’ve always found the Gibson scale a little more comfortable, but strats are where it’s at.
I put Gibson conversion necks on my Tele's. It's only 3/4 of an inch but it makes a difference when you have arthritis. Not having to reach that bit more brings the pain level down considerably and lets me play for longer.
I'll bet the lower string tension helps a lot too
I bought 2 Jackson Fusion guitars from the early 90's. Gibson scale on a Super Strat. I am getting arthritic in my old age and it is definitely more comfortable.
that’s EXACTLY why I want to do it
@@IrateWizrd That's another advantage. Let's face it, women generally have smaller hands and bending strings can be challenging at high tension. The shorter scale length does help with that. But, it also changes the tone just a bit; the high b and e strings seem to be less brittle with the shorter scale length.
What is the width?
Love that finish!! Please don't make me buy another guitar right now, I'm trying to go to college.
These special finishes are only available starting next Monday, and will probably sell out within the first couple days. Colleges will be around forever. My recommendation is to postpone your education, drop out of school, and drain your savings to buy one of these bodies. If you've received any Pell grants or student loans I would see if you can use those funds too. This will only set your career goals back a year, which is no big deal at all. I mean, you're young...you have all the time in the world. It's possible your earning power over the course of your career could suffer as well, but only by, like, 17% or so...which can easily be made up for by not investing in any kind of 401k, IRA, or other retirement plan. That's what I would do, anyway.
@@warmoth Thanks, I know I can always rely on you to be the voice of reason!
Or you may find a killer tone and become a guitar God and make millions of dollars! Your choice.🎸😂
Ethan Atwell College is a waste of money. A guitar will love you.
@@3cardmonty602 Isn't thst what B.B. King used to say? Lucille was the only woman who never left him.
Been using the 24.75" scale for 12 years now. Love it. Great demo. The anniversary dyes are nothing short of stunning.
god bless all the staff of warmoth
hope you are fine
When is Aaron going to get to start building monthly guitars :)
Still waiting for the groundswell of public outrage. People....forget about Covid 19. There are other, more important matters at hand!!
Let’s compromise and maybe get at least one or two builds on UA-cam? 😜
How could I have missed this one?! It's so great that you go this far to put common hypotheses to a real world sound test and let us all know Aaron! And your playing and tone is outstanding and fun, too! Rock on!
Seriously man, your tone is incredible. Even listening through my phone, your note definition is amazing. You know how to wring the best out of that beautiful guitar! Great technique AND feel.
Dear Warmoth executive team: I and part of the groundswell of public outrage that Aaron is not building guitars monthly!
About a month ago I bought a Gibson-Scale neck for my Telecaster. It has a compound radius of 10”-16”, Tusq XL nut, and 6105 frets. I hear no difference In my Tele, but it plays a helluva lot easier now. I’d highly recommend a conversion neck if you’re getting older like me and you’re getting tired of stretching for notes.
I have 3 different tele’s with Gibson Scale Conversion Necks. I love them!
Is the guitar in your TC Electronics Mojo Mojo Demo video, a Warmoth? That tele sounds GREAT, and your playing is awesome too. You should post more videos of you playing your Warmoth guitars. I'm always look for videos of good guitarists playing Warmoth. Sending a subscription your way.
A lot of people say they hear a strong difference between the two necks. I thought so too when I first got my conversion neck -- my first Warmoth purchase. Then I spent the next six months swapping back and forth almost like some schizo nervous tick trying to suss out every nuance to decide which was better. After seemingly 100 swaps I came to the conclusion that the sounds were nearly identical and most perceived differences were mirages. The 25.5 stock Fender neck had a bit more deep resonance in the neck position when playing clean-clear (a skosh to use the term in its native context), but not enough to be a deal breaker for the conversion neck. The conversion did a bit better for distortion in the bridge position. (That might also be partly due to the stouter Modern Construction.) Cumulatively for me, the Gibson scale paired with the flatter compound radius and slightly thinner Standard Thin neck profile just makes it so much easier to play. I get more out of the guitar -- which for me means I sound better playing the conversion. So much so that I eventually went all in on the 7/8ths series --- best thing that has happened to me in 35 years plus of playing. I put the stock Fender neck back on the Strat (which is a bit ratty after 20 years of hard use and several worldwide moves, like a well worn baseball glove) just so I can occasionally compare to the 7/8 S-Style guitar. The 7/8 wins every time by knockout in the opening seconds of the first round. It clubs my Les Paul senseless too. No contest.
Like he said there are small differences, mostly on the clear string picking sounds. I could tell, before he said which neck was which, that there was a small treble loss on the second neck. I'm pretty sure it won't make a difference on a live setting, but you could hear them if you're a bedroom player/sound chaser. Then again a turn on the amp treble should, theoretically, take care of that.
I agree with your assessment.. the difference is really not in the sound.. it is in playability. ... bending is easier.... and less stretching on difficult chords.. the real sound change is most likely due to the strings... to be really fair.. the string tensions should be measured here as well... maybe a better test would be have 0.10s on the 25.5 and 0.11s on the 24.75... the tension of the strings certainly will yield some tonal differences...
all your comparison videos are the absolute best. thanks!
I happened to guess correctly. The give away was your bends were "wilder" on the guitar #2, going a bit too sharp. I like to go up to the next higher string gauge on shorter scales so that my bends are about right, so I use 9-42 on my Strat, 10-46 on my Les Paul and Gretsch. It's very cool that you can convert a bolt-on guitar to a different scale by replacing the neck, such as 24.75" or baritone. As for converting a Strat to 24 3/4", it's more of a feel thing than a sound thing.
just saw this, and that's what I thot. The bends were easily over extended!
I caught that too, Lawrence. He was using his normal Fender muscle memory and pushing those bends a bit sharp on the Gibson-scaled neck. My carpenter sense was telling me Neck #2 looked a little shorter as well. I'm glad somebody is making this choice available and I trust Warmoth to build top quality stuff. I may have to get a 24.75" replacement neck for my Schecter PT and see if it gets me playing it more.
It was the ease of the string bends that gave it away for me. LoL thanks for the video, Sincerely, Pops
Everyone always references scales lengths in terms of how one type is easier to play over another in respect to tension. I believe a far more important metric to gauge them by is that the shorter scale provides an advantage to players with smaller hands and shorter fingers. No one ever references scale lengths in terms of how uncomfortable a strat scale can be due to having to stretch further. There needs to be way more discussion in terms of hand size when it come to choosing a guitar neck. I think it would help more people get in to the instrument.
I'll admit to having small hands. Does the Gibson conversion help? Eh, maybe. The difference is actually very slight ...3/4 of an inch spread over the entire scale length....so it really does not help small hands very much. I can move between the conversion and my regular scale Strat without even noticing. I also have a Les Paul which is (obviously) a Gibson scale 24.75, but the neck is chunky and wide and the shorter scale length makes no difference there for my hand. I have both a Warmoth conversion scale and a Warmoth standard scale in the Standard Thin neck profile and 1-5/8 nut width....and that DOES make a huge difference on both necks.
My hands are on the smaller side of normal and it can feel like I’m treading water and just getting by on a fender when I have to fret chords that require stretch while on a gibson i just feel more confident and flow-y
Thanks a lot, Aaron!!!
I was waiting for this demo.
You totally nailed it!
Congrats.
Thank you for doing this, I've been waiting! I agree, there is a difference, but it is very slight. And for me, that subtle difference is insignificant next to the Improved playability I find on the shorter scale.
I could tell right away that Neck#2 was the Gibson scale. I was pleased with the tone of both necks, however I love the feel of 24.75" scale length guitars. I just wish that all of the options of a 25.5 scale length neck were available for the Gibson scale. Specifically the nut width. I want a strat neck with a 24.75" scale length and a 1 3/4 nut width on a 59' contour. Can't always get everything ya want though.
You can with Musikraft necks ;)
It would be amazing if you could do a video on your V bodies!
I love how meticulous these tests are. I could tell that the bottom loosened up a bit for the short scale neck but it wasn't a major deal. I think the real difference is the Tune-o-matic vs. the Fender Tremolo, and then the bolt on vs. set neck.
Would be kind of fun to have a test guitar which got fitted a fixed bridge (maybe even a low profile Tune-o-matic), then later got routed out for a strat style trem. You could also get ridiculous and glue in the neck.
I have a 24 3/4" conversion neck waiting for a project. As soon as the weather turns a bit more warm, I will be shooting some finish. Can't wait!
I did know about the fretboard corners at the heel, but the thing that gave it away was the ever-so-slinky over-bends (3:01) on the conversion neck.
Would love a conversion neck for a modern Jackson JS. There are a lot of JS out there at 25.5 that would be a better guitar at 24.75.
The pinch harmonics gave it away to me.
Since I play a 25 1/2 scale it was easy to notice the difference. With a 25 and a half scale there's more low end growl, low string notes swell to the overall sound. Lots of depth. With the 24 3/4 scale it sounded more balanced across the frequencies. Very even sound. Maybe a little less bite, or cut through on the pick attack. Which explains why does Paul's or Gibson's in general have such a sweet sound to the notes.
I really enjoy these videos! There's so much argument on the Internet but, next to no one is actually testing the sweeping statements people make.
Warmoth should definitely find it in their budget to do a few more of these comparison videos, if nothing else they show a good looking guitar that sounds good that belongs to their brand. For the record I have a strat made from warmoth parts and while I'm happy with my decisions, it would have been great to hear the differences between the body woods, neck woods, neck shapes etc.
Thanks for the great comparisons you do. This was very interesting. I was surprised at how close the sound is but at the same time, I find I prefer the sound of the Gibson scale conversion neck every so slightly to the 25 1/2" scale neck. This is great for me because for some reason the older I get, I find I can't quite stretch my fingers across 7 frets without pain like I used to be able to. I can do it on my acoustic which is 24 3/4" so I'll be picking up a couple of these conversion necks.
What i really love about your comparison videos is that you play the same licks some people dont do that in comparison videos
First, thanks Aaron you do the tests that we would do if we had the time and materials. They help me to decide which parts and materials to order. Second, thanks for choosing the mahogany body with maple top to use with humbuckers. That is the right combination. I listened first on my Samsung tablet and couldn't hear a difference. So I move over to my desktop with the 3 speaker sound system but still didn't really hear any difference between the two necks. I even listened with my eyes closed hoping that would help but if I heard any difference it was only on the neck pick up and it was very slight. So now I would like you, if possible, to do it again with the same necks but this time with an ash body and single coils. And if possible add some 1 1/2 step bends down around the 17th fret. Thanks again.
One thing that changes a lot is where your harmonics are compared to the PU. You can't use your 5 fret harmonic with your neck PU on a strat or tele because the PUs are right at the "node" of string vibration. With the conversion necks, that node is moved far enough that you can hear it with all PUs. Another very cool option you might want to do a video on is the 7/8 scale bodies and neck. Not only do you get the 24 3/4 " scale, but you also get a 24 fret neck (I built one and love it).
I always wondered whether the conversion neck had a tonal difference. Thanks Aaron.
Been wanting to do this myself, just to see and feelthe difference. Thanks!
sweet! Finally I'll get to know. Edit: LOVE your comparison videos, man.
Excellent, marvelous, thank you. This last year or two I've been putting Fender-scale Squier necks on Epiphone bodies and Epiphone necks on Squier bodies, just screwing around. It's not as difficult as one might think. You only have to change the distance from neck butt to bridge by 3/16". On a Tele you can do that with intonation screws. Going the other way is a little messier but so what. None of these guitars is precious.
As for the demo, it came out about what I expected. The long scale is what I like better hearing someone else play. The Gibson scale is what I like better hearing me play.
It's a good day when Warmoth has a new video
Gorgeous Guitar your playing was right on as well 👍🔥🎸🦅
Loving my warmoth (my avatar) with gibson scale 🥰
Reallly enjoyed the comparison video, thanks
Like with tone woods, frets and neck profiles the difference is minimal. Get what you like the look and feel of and you'll be the most satisfied
Thanks for the great demo. Now there is one less thing for guitar players to argue about!
Great Test! I love your "experimental design" ! thanks.
I'll wait to see set-in vs bolt-on ;)
So I put this conversion neck on my player strat, actually I had help putting it on. It fit perfect but I didn't order tuners so I took tuners off the fender neck but the Warmoth neck didn't have the two tiny holes that the two tuner pegs go into so I tried to drill the holes but screwed it up and had to take it to a friend to fix. The Warmoth neck didn't have string tree, so I screwed that up, drilling a hole, so took it to friend again. Now it's all set up and I'm loving it, I got small, Hobbit hands, and was ready to give up on Strats but this changed everything! It's a good compromise bet/ 24 inch neck, which has a tone I'm not always liking and the larger 25 1/2 inch strat, also the Gibson/ Epiphone necks , although 24 3/4 inch, have the wider nut and flatter radius, making certain chords uncomfortable, playing a D or Eb chord with the C form.
Figured there would be a difference, but was not expecting it to be anywhere near that distinct. Pretty surprised.
Another video! Thanks man
Recently got a baked maple conversion neck for a Reverend Flatroc. I also put TV Jones Filtertron classics and a Bigsby on it and it plays amazing. If there's anyone on the fence about baked maple necks, do not hesitate another minute. The comfort and feel are dream like.
I'm currently saving up to get one for my Strat. And then, it's time to build a Tele. Of course the only place to start is at Warmoth.
Would love to see a shootout between a Gibson scale conversion guitar and a 7/8 guitar of the same specs
I built a 25-1/2” scale length Warmoth Les Paul. Such a unique sound; and it plays like butter. I think my favorite thing about that guitar is the unfinished rosewood I used for the neck. The body is mahogany with a carved maple top. No sticky coatings on the back of the neck. Ebony board, standard thin contour compound radius neck. Love it. It’s just comfortable as hell.
The background guitars are really slick!
Amazing flame top. Lets cover half of it with a pickguard lol
Beautiful guitar.
Conversion neck tone is so good, regular scale necks have a more open response that favors the bridge bringing out the best that position offers with more texture and zing.
That guitar is beautiful. From what I’ve seen Warmoth offers unique options. I will be building a custom Warmoth guitar in the near future.
Wow, that finish looks so awesome! One of the most beautiful guitars I've ever seen. And it just sounds great.
Very interesting, comparing the sound, I had been pretty sure it would've been the other way around. To me the conversion neck had more definition and clarity to it. I think, this will probably be totally different when played in lower tunings, drop C for example.
Isnt' that finish is great? It's called Northern Lights Dye. With the black pickguard and maple fretboard it is eye-popping!
@@warmoth
Is it still available?
Didn't find it in the finish options menu.
You have re-enforced what I always thought the differences would be. Heard just a tiny bit more edge/bite on the 25.5, bridge pickup on chords clean or slight overdrive. Not so much when distorted or playing single notes or or on the neck pickup. Two thumbs up. Keep these videos coming. :-)
I have a sweet Fender Player Telecaster body with a Warmoth Telecaster Conversion Neck with an Indian Rosewood Fretboard. I’m trying to sell it but it really makes a difference in those chord stretches and bends.
Hello! I've got to say, this is one of the best tests i've ever seen. I was wondering if you guys can run a test on Guitar Body weight. I'm a bassist and saw Tom Stenback's basses and they have this little feature where you can add some weights to the body and it may affect the tone. It got me really curious since I can swear I heard a little more definition to the sound (more focused... less "airy", which, for me, is worse). So, my suggestion is, test 3 guitar / basses bodies that are made of the same wood, however, have different densities (light, heavy and in between) to chck if it affects tone. Once again, congratulations on the tests! Cheers!
I preferred the sound of the conversion neck, especially with the distorted tones. The tones sounded more concise and tight to my ears.
Thanks for this! You guys rock!
Thanks for the Operation Mindcrime riff. 👍 😀
It just takes a minute, you'll feel no pain....
What no blues ?
I was watching this vid to convince myself to get a Gibson scale for my tele but after hearing the sound comparison I actually like the standard scale much better lol I guess it's still a good thing I watched this to be sure!!!
Those cleans definatly sound rounder/warm like a Les Paul/SG scale guitar. Unmistakeable.
Funny that I just sent you an email asking questions about my purchase, and here is one of the answers. Gibson conversion is the answer. Cool now I know.
Great demo! Thank you for using common gear. So many demos & reviews are done on boutique & super $$$ gear, it’s hard to know what you are really hearing.
Thanks so much much for the actually scientific comparison. As with anything this subtle, I had times when I preferred #1 and times when I preferred #2, but neither by anything remotely resembling a landslide. And, I had them wrong to begin with, so no confirmation bias I suppose. Great job sir!!
Man I need to do another build with your parts. I love my Precision and I'm thinking it needs a sibling. Might have to spring and get your Mooncaster bass.
dayumn, that body finish's gorgeous!
I'm guessing that neck #2 is the Gibson scale, 24.75". To my ears neck #2 was slightly warmer and more relaxed sounding, but only slightly.
I was surprised how much of a difference it made. Especially the high gain stuff was much more saturated with the shorter scale. Great video!
As I listened I thought for sure that Neck 2 was the Fender length. It seemed to sound a little better on everything you did. I figured the sound of neck one was the sonic cost of the conversion. But I was pleasantly surprised when you said that neck 2, my preferred sonic choice, was the conversion neck. So now that I'm older and my hands are giving me some pain, I will have no problem putting a conversion neck on my strat.
I too felt Neck 2 sounded a bit better. There is a bit more sweetness and magic in its sound. I guessed correctly that it was the conversion neck because I'm used to hearing this quality when using lighter gauge strings.
Great video! The finish is awesome, very nice playing and I was surprised that the n1 neck was the 25 and 1/2! Great job as always Aaron!
Thanks for this. I liked the neck 1 tone better immediately, and suspected it was the Fender scale one. It most noticeable to me on the clean settings.
Please make baritone scale vs normal scale with baritone tuning
Back in the 90's I had two Hamer set neck Chaparral's. One was a 1986 model with 24.75" scale and the other was a 1987 model with 25.5" scale. The difference in tone mirrored this video. The shorter scale was warmer and the longer scale was snappier...
Great video! Keep em coming!
No 24 fret 24 3/4" conversion necks? That's my dream at least ;-)
great video! Im wondering, with all these shootout tests, I cant thinking that it would be intersting to hear it through something like a marshall amp thats a bit more midrangy. where a fender is a little more scooped. since some of these differences occur in the middle range, in my experience at least. but thanks for a great video. you're doing a really great job here :)
The conversion neck sounded a bit sweeter, less strident with the same gauge of strings. It is because I would like to use 9.5-44 strings that I'm thinking of a conversion neck. Currently I'm on 8.5-40 with a standard fender scale length in order to have sweetness of sound while tremolo decked.
Great video... i think the basic reason to go with a conversion neck is really not to change the tone.. but to increase the comfort. String bending is also easier on the hands... some tone change will also result and maybe the real source of any change in tone.. in the fact that if you use the same string gauge.. the strings will be less taught on the 24.75 inch neck.. this will certainly change the tone somewhat... and also will almost feel like going with a lighter string gauge.. I think the question that should be answered here beyond the sound issue is: What was the difference in comfort and ease of playing between the 2 configurations.
This video might answer your question about comfort: ua-cam.com/video/SonOG3Adeng/v-deo.html
Screenshot of you pointing. Yeaaahh, that's the ticket😁. Love ya, dude!
LOL. It's goofy, isn't it? Almost as goofy as "keep on pickin'!"
You're the man, dude👍
Cool video. Side note: Those fender Hot Rod amps are really pretty great.
Agreed!
Just started learning guitar recently and been playing on a telecaster. Thinking about selling it and getting an SG. I have short fingers so i feel the shorter scale length could be a huge help with my playing.
No idea what riff that was when you did the middle position distortion test, but it was awesome and it's stuck in my head haha Also, that guitar looks badass.
That seems about as perfect a test as anyone could perform - thanks! I was wondering if my strat style guitars would lose their snarl if I converted, so this helps answer that question a lot.
I guessed correctly, but I hear it slightly differently. I think that it slightly flattens and widens the mid curve - easiest to tell the difference on the neck pickup where the pickup has moved slightly off that 24th harmonic (think John Sykes). They both sound great.
Beautiful guitar...
I have a gibson scale mahogany/rosewood neck from you guys (for my mahogany HH tele) and i'll be ordering soon a regular scale identical specs one to try. In the particular shootout I'd say that the general feeling for me, more than thicker, is more scooped, for the gibson scale. It feels hollow, less defined, less punchy in the mids, by comparison. Which would make sense as a way to tame a whole mahogany construction and humbucker pickups!
What is the width?
How did you get on with your tele? i have the same spec on order, looking forward to putting it together - kind of inspired by that Cecil Alexander chap on IG.
So usefull video!
Thank you very much!
i’ve seen the 22.5” scale neck for Fender last month. It sounds extremely strange to me but really want to put it on my Squier Strat
I’d be super curious to know what a jazzmaster body with a Gibson short scale would sound like.
Excellent test!
Technically, when you change the neck to change the scale length, you also change the pickup position in relation to scale length. That's why the Gibson neck picked up that pinch harmonic a little better. I'm curious to see what would happen if you normalized the pickup locations based on the percentage of scale length.
The most pronounced tone difference I felt like was the middle position. The middle sounded chirpier, more what I expect from a Gibson middle position. The others you could tell #2 was thicker, but it wasn't as big a difference as I expected.
Peter Griffin: Sir, you had me when you flashed the horns. Here is a check with my name on it. Write down any number on this piece of paper and I will pay it.
I just ordered a ⅞ S-style neck/body...(roasted flamed maple, SS jumbos, holoflake finish woohooo!) I think its more of a playability thing here. I grew up a strat styled guitat guy. I recently got a carvin(25" scale) and after playing it for a second my eyes widened and i got super nervous. I knew all my other guitars were ruined for me in that very moment(schecter hellraiser hybrid, ibanez rg521/ibanez js24p/az242f, ltd/esp M-1000ht koa) and i was right. Iv tried to go back to them and the love that was once there is 100% gone. At 1st i chocked it up to the carvin being a USA custom shop and it was just that better. I hadn't realized it was a scale thing yet and ended up trading the rg521 for a bc rich mockingbird legacy ST(24¾" scale) and i was shocked when the playability was nearly identical, but mainly i had another guitar i liked(at that point i never played my other 4). I went back to the ibanez az242f and realized I think ill like it again if i switch it to 9s...but gibson scale is just so much incredibly easier to play. It makes my strat scaled guitars seem like i have to work against it to play when gibson scale makes me feel free to play to the best of my abilities.
Thanks for the demo. At some point I'd love to see a demo of the same BUT with Single Coil Pickups. I'm curious to know if positions 2 & 4 (Strat quack) makes a difference with a shorter scale (Gibson) neck.
Yes itt does. The godin SD 22 is a strat style with 24.75 inch scale. The single coils are definitively darker.
I hear with the Gibson scale conversion you need a little higher action because the shorter string length needs more room to wobble. What is everyone’s experience with this? As someone with smaller hands, I’ve always found the Gibson scale a little more comfortable, but strats are where it’s at.
Not really. I have both and both are the same.
People talk about pickups, but I think the scale length is the biggest factor in the fender vs. Gibson sound.
I would have used single coils the reason being is the argument is always the Scale length is what gives strats that chimey sound
The best part of the Gibson's (besides the looks) are the slightly wider string spacing at the nut.
I play mostly lower tunings, C standard and lower, and it does seem that the longer 25.5" scale handles these lower tunings better.
Its more about string tension than scale length. Scale length is more about comfort… to a point.