Thank you Mychal, thank you Peter. Surrendering of old beliefs and attachments in order to move forward in studies or life in general - something that we all are learning.
I appreciate Iyengar yoga teachers for their sincere and dedicated cultivation of awareness, inspired mainly by Mr. Iyengar’s example. What I can appreciate about what Mr. Iyengar has offered humanity is a tangible way to cultivate the development of awareness and self-inquiry. These two things are pivotal in a growth process regardless of what system people find themselves accepting into their lives. These are universal tools and principles any life form anywhere can benefit from. Mr. Iyengar was exceptionally persevering and attuned to his process of conscious, aware development, which touches on the human experience profoundly, providing him deep insight into his chosen path and development of yogic studies. This is what, I sense, connects him and his legacy of knowledge and teachings to seekers profoundly. However, the Iyengar “system” has roots in a religious framework that brings about foreign components implanted onto these human universalities. These religious frameworks are reinforced in tandem with the system set up around and within the Iyengar hierarchy structure. All of this is accepted and part of the inherited cultural systems from which yoga was born, which Mr. Iyengar also perpetuated in his humanitarian efforts and promotion of yogic religiosity. I think it is progressive to our evolution to separate the religious components implanted onto our innate human capabilities. The unnatural religious components sustained through “lineages” are threaded and woven into the controlled, manipulated, and implanted aspects of systems of teachings affecting our minds and energy in religion/spirituality in general. In perpetuating the idea that common human development of awareness and inner inquiry should only be kept in a created framework that the Iyengar system represents here is problematic. This is perpetuating systems of control and dogma that should never be forced onto our common humanity. I understand the desire to keep Mr. Iyengar’s principles and teachings as “pure” as possible. Still, it is more dividing to prize his system and hierarchy solely as if other sincere humans wouldn’t or can’t come to the same increased awareness in themselves regarding their own bodies or self-realization. Hinduism's foundation is exemplified here in the problematic aspects I see involved in the hierarchy structures perpetuated in the “teacher-disciple” dynamic. Unfortunately, we are in a system in which other systems must compete to gain the prize of our focus and energetic assimilation. Divisive competition is purposeful, and beyond our complete control due to fragmentation elements that we are born into on this planet. Still, we can become more aware of these elements before accepting a system or hierarchy without proper discernment of all involved with that energetic allegiance. I think it would behoove all of humanity to use these same sincere inquiry skills inspired by Mr. Iyengar to analyze and deeply question all systematic and hierarchical dynamics we are faced with in our human existence. Instead, Hinduism and yoga have us direct that innate human power into our bodily awareness, which can keep us blinded to all the components involved that may be damaging our individual essence by adding us to a "group" or larger energy not entirely "us". I strongly sense the commonality and universal human components fundamental to the Iyengar philosophy and yogic studies are purely aligned. These things Mr. Iyengar has imparted to countless people. I think it is important in these dialogues to not only praise but also discuss the imparted structures and systems that are damaging, too. Mr. Iyengar's preferred containers of development became his vehicle to impart universal growth tools to others. Unfortunately the system he used to deliver these innate and purposeful tools confront those with a decision to accept his entire system as representative of these innate human potentials and skills, which they are not. With that said, a religiosity does ensue with acceptance of an entire prized system that in actuality may be limiting and inadvertently connecting us into energies not natural to humanity or the more purely aligned common components of our compositional capability.
There are many systems of yoga in the world. Insofar as they aim at teaching from a traditional perspective, they all have roots in traditional Indian culture, and ultimately traditional Indian cosmology and mythology. The qualms that you have seem very personal. However, it's erroneous to believe that others who are invested in this system haven't done the inner work necessary to understand whether or not this system fits within their own vision of the world. If Iyengar Yoga doesn't work for you, a Grand Canyon of possibilities lay open to you and you can most assuredly choose to practice something else. Be Well.
@@themychalbryanpodcast1580 Dear Mychal, it might be the lack of my english knowledge, so please excuse if I probably got something wrong. It might be due to the fact that my home languages are italian and german. What I understood of Alexes comment, undependently whether I agree or not is, that he or she wanted to invite you not only to praise, but that it also would be interesting to discuss what could not be so good in this system. No system is perfect. This is a democratic thing to do. I'm always surprised that if someone disagrees some other people tent to close the conversation by inviting semi-friendly that first person to look for another yoga school and to get out of the way. My first Yoga Convention was in 2013 in Berlin. I also had a couple of doubts and questions and all of a sudden one of the partecipiants of the assosiations meeting turned around and told me, that if I didn't agree with whatever it was, I was free to leave. To be honest I was shocked. A couple of years earlier I had left the catholic church right because of this breathtaking attitude to then find myself right in the same situation again, only that this time someone super devoted wanted to get rid of me in the name of iyengar yoga. WOW! I live in Germany. I totally disagree with the extreme right or left wing. But still, politically you can't resolve anything if you just leave the discussion and don't stick to clarifying and evaluating different points of views, even if they are not yours. I'm also married. For 17 years now. If I would have turned around each time I disagreed with my husband and would have told him: Well, you are free to look for another woman, I would have divorced a zillion of times. Relationships personal, political, professional and whatever more in my opinion don't work like this. In this pandemy it happens aswell. People don't talk to each other anymore because of their opinion about vaccines, masks, tests, whether to stay at home or not. So many people don't want to listen to opinions other than their owns. They sit on the couch of their own opinion and don't accept anything else anymore. I'd love to think that in the yoga community we don't behave like this. For me it is awfully boring if everybody is of the same opinion. I love your energy and your podcast and with my comment I don't take nor part for or against the previous comment. I wanted to make a general statement. Lots of greetings from Munich Viola
@@yogaviola1300 guten tag Viola. What the person above seemed to be getting at (even for me with my English it was difficult to understand with clarity exactly what was being said), is that Iyengar Yoga is a part of a larger religious structure of Hinduism. This seems to be one of that person's primary concerns: the Hinduism, and some of the associated components of Hinduism that may not easily be grafted onto a Western experience. The issue with this notion is that he assumes that everybody's "Western" experience is the same. He speaks about "unnatural religious components", "energies not natural to humanity", etc. But unnatural to WHO? Western people? Just because he feels something may be odd, or strange, or not easily tied in with his own concept of how the world should be doesn't and shouldn't make his vision of the world the right one. I am a black man from the Caribbean. There is allot that we do culturally in the Caribbean that is extraordinarily different than the way how a white man, born and raised in a European culture, would do things. So who gets to say what is "natural"? If I wanted to learn something from white-European culture, I humble myself and I learn. If I want to learn something from a traditional Indian culture, I humble myself and I learn. If that learning makes me feel fundamentally uncomfortable, I move on. You are right, Viola, no system is perfect. But the issues that he has aren't issues about the shouting, the alignment, the props, the words, the Pune pants, the use of blankets in doing Shoulder balance, the sequencing, or the grading system. His issues are with the fundamental religious and spiritual scaffolding upon which the system of Iyengar Yoga is built, which is the backbone upon which Iyengar Yoga is built. I have heard this argument before, to which I say to him as well as anyone else who has this particular concern: if the underlying spirituality that fuels this system of Yoga does not mix well with your Western Anglo-Saxon vision of how the world should be, then please do find a system of Yoga that does not have this as its foundation. The deeper he dives into the heart of Iyengar Yoga, all he will find is Ishvara. And if he is fundamentally uncomfortable with that being the goal of the system of Yoga he is practicing, then Iyengar Yoga may not be the right system for him. I am who I am because of everything that made me. And when I teach, I teach from the heart of my own spiritual practice. For a Western student to have an issue with how "Hindu" a system of Yoga is quickly becomes a very unfortunate and slippery slope. When you say that someone else's culture is wrong, then you are ultimately assuming that your culture is right. And when you go into someone else's culture to try to force them to see why their culture is wrong, then you perpetuate a culture of white supremacy, racial inequality, and culture-based stereotyping, none of which is beneficial. You can complain about the fact that we say "bricks" instead of "blocks". You can't complain about the religion and spirituality that made BKS Iyengar who he was. That person should be humble. Love, Mychal
@@yogaviola1300 Yes, what you said is largely true and what I was getting at Viola: "that he or she wanted to invite you not only to praise, but that it also would be interesting to discuss what could not be so good in this system. No system is perfect. This is a democratic thing to do." I was going to let this go, but Mychal has now stated things assuming I am in a Western versus Eastern issue. I would say this is incorrect, and I am coming from a sincere universal human concern. I have issue with the none-sense of any and all religion and spirituality being taught on this planet that perpetuate mis-use of knowledge, hierarchy and power to put us, humans, in positions where we are depersonalized and de-valued. All under the illusion of value which relies on the groups hierarchy functioning to access. To further clarify, since Mychal is assuming I am in a western versus eastern issue here: Our human capability to develop focus, help our health through depth and intelligence in movement, and deep inquiry into our own body and energy, shouldn't be assimilated by a religion, belief or dogma - these are universal and accessible human capabilities. I have issue when these universal human activities/capabilities and potentials are systemized and contained within an entity made system using hierarchy and power/control. Thanks for your replies Mychal, however, I brought up valid and legitimate concerns regarding the structure of ideas comprising the larger established belief system to which yoga represents and is linked to. You touched on none of these concerns in your reply. Instead, defended your “group,” deflected to me (as in “this is your personal problem not ours, we’re fine”), and regurgitated a learned sense of authority/security through the antiquity of these systems. Where are you, really, in these “conversations” then? It's pretty one-sided in that regard, seeming more so as propaganda and not really a place of real depth or actual healing. However, I understand this is a shell not willing to be cracked here or now (or possibly ever), okay. Although this is an exchange between you and me, this public platform makes it about many more voices than those who choose to support every aspect of this group. Supposing you are not willing to address any concerns from a human open space of sincerity (I am valuing sincerity here versus your idea of humbleness which seems to more so be a way to silence this conversation.) In that case, hopefully, this is for someone else who feels an innate unease around these larger belief systems, which are microcosmically reflected in the Iyengar system and hierarchy. These concerns I mentioned affect our humanity intimately and the personal “inners” of our energy. So, of course, what I shared is personally connected and extended as I am innately and, yes, personally sensitive to the pervasive energies accepted and normalized (actually though evaded and shrouded) in the Hindu and religious traditions. Your reply is asking me to look the other way and go somewhere else…again, how is that healing or of much depth? We actually have a choice not to regurgitate or be part of stagnant, inhumane, and depersonalized group dynamics/hierarchies or systematic adherence of thought to find value or worth. I am well-versed in identifying with a group or system, which can give the illusion of self-worth and value. This ultimately stems from every human’s shared inherent fragmentation. This common humanity should be our connection point which validates others and values individuality over a group. It has been my life’s work to step out of cult dynamics in groups. Whether followers are willing to be brave to stand on their own to discover their innate value outside of a group is up to every single person. I know I am not alone in this. There have been many speaking up about the damaging dynamics perpetuated in this and other popular systems. And to reiterate, this structured system wasn’t all Mr. Iyengar’s doing, but what he inherited and continued to perpetuate to his mass following. De-constructing the components that built up a belief system (over ages) and its assimilation of universal human components to appeal to masses seems to have automatically invoked a larger than you response in speaking for all your “Iyengar” colleagues. To me, this simply proves an important point in identification with group energy and dynamic for value. Essentially, as in all followers of a group or cult dynamic, this learned depersonalization and reliance on group “power” quickly turns into deflection to invalidate legitimate human concerns (or any concerns that could begin to reveal the illusions that build up the said groups dividing walls.) Yes, Mychal, you Be Well too.
An interesting and at times, beautiful conversation.
I was engrossed.
My gratitude to Peter & Michael
Thank you Mychal, thank you Peter. Surrendering of old beliefs and attachments in order to move forward in studies or life in general - something that we all are learning.
I appreciate Iyengar yoga teachers for their sincere and dedicated cultivation of awareness, inspired mainly by Mr. Iyengar’s example.
What I can appreciate about what Mr. Iyengar has offered humanity is a tangible way to cultivate the development of awareness and self-inquiry. These two things are pivotal in a growth process regardless of what system people find themselves accepting into their lives. These are universal tools and principles any life form anywhere can benefit from.
Mr. Iyengar was exceptionally persevering and attuned to his process of conscious, aware development, which touches on the human experience profoundly, providing him deep insight into his chosen path and development of yogic studies. This is what, I sense, connects him and his legacy of knowledge and teachings to seekers profoundly.
However, the Iyengar “system” has roots in a religious framework that brings about foreign components implanted onto these human universalities. These religious frameworks are reinforced in tandem with the system set up around and within the Iyengar hierarchy structure.
All of this is accepted and part of the inherited cultural systems from which yoga was born, which Mr. Iyengar also perpetuated in his humanitarian efforts and promotion of yogic religiosity. I think it is progressive to our evolution to separate the religious components implanted onto our innate human capabilities. The unnatural religious components sustained through “lineages” are threaded and woven into the controlled, manipulated, and implanted aspects of systems of teachings affecting our minds and energy in religion/spirituality in general.
In perpetuating the idea that common human development of awareness and inner inquiry should only be kept in a created framework that the Iyengar system represents here is problematic. This is perpetuating systems of control and dogma that should never be forced onto our common humanity. I understand the desire to keep Mr. Iyengar’s principles and teachings as “pure” as possible. Still, it is more dividing to prize his system and hierarchy solely as if other sincere humans wouldn’t or can’t come to the same increased awareness in themselves regarding their own bodies or self-realization. Hinduism's foundation is exemplified here in the problematic aspects I see involved in the hierarchy structures perpetuated in the “teacher-disciple” dynamic.
Unfortunately, we are in a system in which other systems must compete to gain the prize of our focus and energetic assimilation. Divisive competition is purposeful, and beyond our complete control due to fragmentation elements that we are born into on this planet. Still, we can become more aware of these elements before accepting a system or hierarchy without proper discernment of all involved with that energetic allegiance. I think it would behoove all of humanity to use these same sincere inquiry skills inspired by Mr. Iyengar to analyze and deeply question all systematic and hierarchical dynamics we are faced with in our human existence.
Instead, Hinduism and yoga have us direct that innate human power into our bodily awareness, which can keep us blinded to all the components involved that may be damaging our individual essence by adding us to a "group" or larger energy not entirely "us".
I strongly sense the commonality and universal human components fundamental to the Iyengar philosophy and yogic studies are purely aligned. These things Mr. Iyengar has imparted to countless people.
I think it is important in these dialogues to not only praise but also discuss the imparted structures and systems that are damaging, too. Mr. Iyengar's preferred containers of development became his vehicle to impart universal growth tools to others. Unfortunately the system he used to deliver these innate and purposeful tools confront those with a decision to accept his entire system as representative of these innate human potentials and skills, which they are not. With that said, a religiosity does ensue with acceptance of an entire prized system that in actuality may be limiting and inadvertently connecting us into energies not natural to humanity or the more purely aligned common components of our compositional capability.
There are many systems of yoga in the world. Insofar as they aim at teaching from a traditional perspective, they all have roots in traditional Indian culture, and ultimately traditional Indian cosmology and mythology. The qualms that you have seem very personal. However, it's erroneous to believe that others who are invested in this system haven't done the inner work necessary to understand whether or not this system fits within their own vision of the world. If Iyengar Yoga doesn't work for you, a Grand Canyon of possibilities lay open to you and you can most assuredly choose to practice something else. Be Well.
@@themychalbryanpodcast1580 Dear Mychal, it might be the lack of my english knowledge, so please excuse if I probably got something wrong. It might be due to the fact that my home languages are italian and german. What I understood of Alexes comment, undependently whether I agree or not is, that he or she wanted to invite you not only to praise, but that it also would be interesting to discuss what could not be so good in this system. No system is perfect. This is a democratic thing to do. I'm always surprised that if someone disagrees some other people tent to close the conversation by inviting semi-friendly that first person to look for another yoga school and to get out of the way. My first Yoga Convention was in 2013 in Berlin. I also had a couple of doubts and questions and all of a sudden one of the partecipiants of the assosiations meeting turned around and told me, that if I didn't agree with whatever it was, I was free to leave. To be honest I was shocked. A couple of years earlier I had left the catholic church right because of this breathtaking attitude to then find myself right in the same situation again, only that this time someone super devoted wanted to get rid of me in the name of iyengar yoga. WOW! I live in Germany. I totally disagree with the extreme right or left wing. But still, politically you can't resolve anything if you just leave the discussion and don't stick to clarifying and evaluating different points of views, even if they are not yours. I'm also married. For 17 years now. If I would have turned around each time I disagreed with my husband and would have told him: Well, you are free to look for another woman, I would have divorced a zillion of times. Relationships personal, political, professional and whatever more in my opinion don't work like this. In this pandemy it happens aswell. People don't talk to each other anymore because of their opinion about vaccines, masks, tests, whether to stay at home or not. So many people don't want to listen to opinions other than their owns. They sit on the couch of their own opinion and don't accept anything else anymore. I'd love to think that in the yoga community we don't behave like this.
For me it is awfully boring if everybody is of the same opinion.
I love your energy and your podcast and with my comment I don't take nor part for or against the previous comment. I wanted to make a general statement. Lots of greetings from Munich Viola
@@yogaviola1300 guten tag Viola. What the person above seemed to be getting at (even for me with my English it was difficult to understand with clarity exactly what was being said), is that Iyengar Yoga is a part of a larger religious structure of Hinduism. This seems to be one of that person's primary concerns: the Hinduism, and some of the associated components of Hinduism that may not easily be grafted onto a Western experience.
The issue with this notion is that he assumes that everybody's "Western" experience is the same. He speaks about "unnatural religious components", "energies not natural to humanity", etc. But unnatural to WHO? Western people? Just because he feels something may be odd, or strange, or not easily tied in with his own concept of how the world should be doesn't and shouldn't make his vision of the world the right one. I am a black man from the Caribbean. There is allot that we do culturally in the Caribbean that is extraordinarily different than the way how a white man, born and raised in a European culture, would do things. So who gets to say what is "natural"? If I wanted to learn something from white-European culture, I humble myself and I learn. If I want to learn something from a traditional Indian culture, I humble myself and I learn. If that learning makes me feel fundamentally uncomfortable, I move on. You are right, Viola, no system is perfect. But the issues that he has aren't issues about the shouting, the alignment, the props, the words, the Pune pants, the use of blankets in doing Shoulder balance, the sequencing, or the grading system. His issues are with the fundamental religious and spiritual scaffolding upon which the system of Iyengar Yoga is built, which is the backbone upon which Iyengar Yoga is built. I have heard this argument before, to which I say to him as well as anyone else who has this particular concern: if the underlying spirituality that fuels this system of Yoga does not mix well with your Western Anglo-Saxon vision of how the world should be, then please do find a system of Yoga that does not have this as its foundation. The deeper he dives into the heart of Iyengar Yoga, all he will find is Ishvara. And if he is fundamentally uncomfortable with that being the goal of the system of Yoga he is practicing, then Iyengar Yoga may not be the right system for him. I am who I am because of everything that made me. And when I teach, I teach from the heart of my own spiritual practice. For a Western student to have an issue with how "Hindu" a system of Yoga is quickly becomes a very unfortunate and slippery slope. When you say that someone else's culture is wrong, then you are ultimately assuming that your culture is right. And when you go into someone else's culture to try to force them to see why their culture is wrong, then you perpetuate a culture of white supremacy, racial inequality, and culture-based stereotyping, none of which is beneficial.
You can complain about the fact that we say "bricks" instead of "blocks". You can't complain about the religion and spirituality that made BKS Iyengar who he was.
That person should be humble.
Love,
Mychal
@@yogaviola1300 Yes, what you said is largely true and what I was getting at Viola: "that he or she wanted to invite you not only to praise, but that it also would be interesting to discuss what could not be so good in this system. No system is perfect. This is a democratic thing to do."
I was going to let this go, but Mychal has now stated things assuming I am in a Western versus Eastern issue. I would say this is incorrect, and I am coming from a sincere universal human concern. I have issue with the none-sense of any and all religion and spirituality being taught on this planet that perpetuate mis-use of knowledge, hierarchy and power to put us, humans, in positions where we are depersonalized and de-valued. All under the illusion of value which relies on the groups hierarchy functioning to access. To further clarify, since Mychal is assuming I am in a western versus eastern issue here: Our human capability to develop focus, help our health through depth and intelligence in movement, and deep inquiry into our own body and energy, shouldn't be assimilated by a religion, belief or dogma - these are universal and accessible human capabilities. I have issue when these universal human activities/capabilities and potentials are systemized and contained within an entity made system using hierarchy and power/control.
Thanks for your replies Mychal, however, I brought up valid and legitimate concerns regarding the structure of ideas comprising the larger established belief system to which yoga represents and is linked to. You touched on none of these concerns in your reply. Instead, defended your “group,” deflected to me (as in “this is your personal problem not ours, we’re fine”), and regurgitated a learned sense of authority/security through the antiquity of these systems.
Where are you, really, in these “conversations” then? It's pretty one-sided in that regard, seeming more so as propaganda and not really a place of real depth or actual healing.
However, I understand this is a shell not willing to be cracked here or now (or possibly ever), okay.
Although this is an exchange between you and me, this public platform makes it about many more voices than those who choose to support every aspect of this group. Supposing you are not willing to address any concerns from a human open space of sincerity (I am valuing sincerity here versus your idea of humbleness which seems to more so be a way to silence this conversation.) In that case, hopefully, this is for someone else who feels an innate unease around these larger belief systems, which are microcosmically reflected in the Iyengar system and hierarchy.
These concerns I mentioned affect our humanity intimately and the personal “inners” of our energy. So, of course, what I shared is personally connected and extended as I am innately and, yes, personally sensitive to the pervasive energies accepted and normalized (actually though evaded and shrouded) in the Hindu and religious traditions. Your reply is asking me to look the other way and go somewhere else…again, how is that healing or of much depth?
We actually have a choice not to regurgitate or be part of stagnant, inhumane, and depersonalized group dynamics/hierarchies or systematic adherence of thought to find value or worth.
I am well-versed in identifying with a group or system, which can give the illusion of self-worth and value. This ultimately stems from every human’s shared inherent fragmentation. This common humanity should be our connection point which validates others and values individuality over a group.
It has been my life’s work to step out of cult dynamics in groups. Whether followers are willing to be brave to stand on their own to discover their innate value outside of a group is up to every single person. I know I am not alone in this. There have been many speaking up about the damaging dynamics perpetuated in this and other popular systems. And to reiterate, this structured system wasn’t all Mr. Iyengar’s doing, but what he inherited and continued to perpetuate to his mass following.
De-constructing the components that built up a belief system (over ages) and its assimilation of universal human components to appeal to masses seems to have automatically invoked a larger than you response in speaking for all your “Iyengar” colleagues. To me, this simply proves an important point in identification with group energy and dynamic for value. Essentially, as in all followers of a group or cult dynamic, this learned depersonalization and reliance on group “power” quickly turns into deflection to invalidate legitimate human concerns (or any concerns that could begin to reveal the illusions that build up the said groups dividing walls.)
Yes, Mychal, you Be Well too.