But is it cheating tho?!
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- Опубліковано 16 вер 2024
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In this episode of the StumbleWell Podcast, Hallease and Chris discuss an article in which a married woman decides to receive an erotic massage to reclaim her sexuality. Through the podcast we ask a simple, yet complicated, question is this cheating? The answer to that question aside, this article opened up our conversation to issues around sexual frustration that can come up in heterosexual relationships and how difficult it can be to repair miscommunications during intimacy. Keep it classy in the comments!
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I dont feel this is cheating. There are some journeys that are for the individual and everybody can't come (no pun intended lol). In my view, if they discussed this and she decided to do what she needed, and he gave his blessing, I dont see anything wrong with it. Sex is such a physical AND mental process. There's no one way to fix a person's sexual hang ups. That said, I hope she does seek a therapist to really unpack whats happening. Cause if it only took one tantric session to have multiple "climaxes" if you will, this isnt a physical problem anymore. Its a relationship one.
Ohhh love this. Pinning it!
My insatiable thirst for knowledge means I've already read the max amount of free articles by the New Yorker 😂
That being said - without reading the article - Mr. Hallease's question at 0:17 ("Why wasn't the husband part of her healing?") was the EXACT QUESTION that first sprang to mind when I read what you wrote on Patreon about this scenario! 👌🏾
I’m slightly ashamed that Mr. Hallease posed this question before me. I was like…🫠 “oh dang, I’m the drama”
@@hallease LOL No reason to feel even slightly ashamed! 😄 Mr. Hallease is the ying ☯️ to your yang ☯️ which is why you guys work so well together! 🥰🥰
Also without reading the article, perhaps she and her husband are not as open to each as we might think. I imagine that the topic has come up numerous times and, without resolution, frustration builds and it becomes a taboo subject between them.
When she decided to go to a stranger (a professional ?) without telling her husband, the thinking might have been, "if he doesn't know, then if this doesn't work, he won't be disappointed, again; we won't have to discuss what's wrong with ME, again; we can keep on the way we have been for a little longer", etc.
To the question of whether or not it’s infidelity - that is up to that couple to decide. All relationships have different boundaries and everyone has different things they’d be comfortable with. It’s up to each couple to define “cheating”… and sometimes that definition doesn’t come to light until after a transgression has already occurred. In the words of the Fredericks… “marriage be hard.”
Marriage be real hard. That was my struggle through the article I really wanted a definition of their relationship because marriage (by my standard) is closed but I’m well aware that everyone defines it differently.
Mr Hallease saying "why wasn't the husband part of the healing" had me stamping my feet! I agree with this statement, but I also think sometimes people need to go on journey's themselves. Buuuut I think i also agree with Mr Hallease in that there is likely something bigger/underpinning the sexual block between them. Ultimately it's up to the couple to decide re infidelity, but I know EYE would be in my feelings for suree. Hallease ur skin always looks so moisturised 😍
I believe that it is cheating . For me no matter how somebody may want to twist or turn it if you are having a sexual experience with someone else while you have committed to someone else i'd say it's cheating. You guys raised some really good points like why didnt she want to heal with her husband there. We don't know the dynamics of their relationship but i know if my husband did this it would cause issues for us
Also, I think people put a lot of shame around sex and women. It’s hard to open up to your partner especially if you’re going to hurt his/her feelings.
She told her husband but only after he noticed the cleanup. This just feels a little icky. Happy she resolved her issue, but sounds like they need to work on communication based on this outsider's view.
Yeah, that part made me think “aight so folks ain’t talking talking” you know?
I’m happy to hear this topic discussed
Maybe she didn't know how far she was going to take it. Before she went.
I make myself more “presentable” 😅 before going to the GYN. I don’t think this is cheating.
YES! Me: answering upon seeing the caption, b4 watching or hearing. If one has to ask...🙄
I was just about to say, if you have to ask then it probably is. But the story seems more nuanced in ways we're not entirely privy to.
@@adebisiakinyemi7833 Yes, true. Mr. Hallease, in his wisdom, speculated concerning the husband's role. The right husband will love and build a woman past her issues or seek a solution with her. The nuances do not alter the truth. There are always rationalizations and reasons for everything. Peace Sister.
I 100% agree with you in posing the question to the husband in helping. I think men, especially after having children, don’t fully understand what it’s like for women postpartum. Personally, I’ve felt similar to the woman in this article, but my husband never said anything to make me feel terrible about my body. But society does, in general for women. And even if I don’t believe it, we’re constantly seeing it indirectly. I don’t want to be the one to just place blame on society, but that’s a huge factor for most women (at least the ones I know personally, and speaking for myself).
Just listened to the "Are We Still Monogamous?" episode and I'd be interested in a "Let's Talk About Intimacy/Sex" segment if you're up to it. I've caught some content where you both discuss growth/setbacks as a couple and it'd be cool to see a discussion on how intimacy and sex has evolved/changed for you both as individuals and as a couple over the decade you've been married.
What I desired at 20 is very different from what I desire at 30 lol. I've evolved into a more affectionate person - I welcome caresses, hugs, cuddling, teasing, light foreplay, hand holding, kisses, nuzzles, etc. more easily. The girl who used to be annoyed at holding hands wouldn't recognize the woman I am today lol. How do you guys navigate these evolutions in your intimate/sex lives? Have you dealt with fluctuations in your desires? How have your wants/needs changed overtime? What are some pros/cons you've noticed? Things you've learned about each other/things you've learned about yourselves? etc.
Thanks for another great video!
Taking notes!
Just because married people can sanction adultery within their marriages, does not make it...not adultery. It's adultery even if all parties say the adultery is "okay" and "permissible."
I'm not entirely sure if it's cheating or not as, like you mentioned, we don't know their relationship status. But I would say that it seems like the cause of the woman 'not feeling so great about herself' was never addressed. The tantric massage seemed to open the woman up and make her feel a certain way that allowed her to reach climax, but I wonder if the 'cause' to lacking self confidence will arise again and then would this tantric session become a regular 'top-up' appointment, as in... I don't feel so great about myself or the relations I'm having with my husband are not feeling so great, maybe I should go see my tantric therapist to boost my confidence or maybe I should see my tantric therapist to prepare me for a special night with my husband.
Interesting conversation though. Thanks for sharing both of your thoughts.
Can I just give props to how insightful Mr. Hallease is in this episode? This level of emotional intelligence, introspection, insight into overarching and common dynamics between men and women, ability to not only sympathize but empathize, and ability to freely and vulnerably express these ideas in a confident and unapologetic way is really unusual and admirable. You got a good one! Also, I'm in camp not cheating. If consent is given and both partners know and consent to what's going on, it's not cheating. Cheating implies something negative, something hidden and shameful, something hurtful to one of the partners by virtue of it being hidden and secret. This was all out in the open. I also saw one person down below bring up the significance of the masseuse being a woman, and I think that's important as well. Many men don't feel like any sexual encounter between their female partner and another woman "counts" in any real way, and this might have been the husband's mindset regardless of his wife's attraction or lack thereof to women, which allowed him to give his consent because it would never occur to him to feel threatened by a woman in any way.
Mr. Hallease is a bit strict on marital guidelines. it's nice to hear, but if it's all consensual and everyone is fully informed, I see no problem with it. would I personally do it? no. but A) I'm not married and B) it's not my marriage. side note: there are many ways to have a marriage and you define the rules of your relationships.
Exactly, that was my struggle with the article was that we didn't know how they actually defined their marriage (open, not open, some other method) and so because of that I just used mine/our definition which is closed and "traditional"
So I had to research Trantic Yoga since I was not familiar with it. And what I found is a lot of romantic couples would do it together since it requires very intimate touching so I can see how you can feel like this is cheating since it require you do some compromising positions with another person. But of course it is up to the couple on what they feels is comfortable for them to do.
Mr Hallease...that's why I don't enjoy sex with my husband anymore. Instead of blaming me...if he would've just been compassionate about what I'm going through (menopause, and all those symptoms, dryness, discomfort, mood swings, hot flashes) 🙄 20yrs of marriage, "life be life-ing.
The idea of hiding things in a relationship gives me the big ick but I have to respect not all partners value communication in the same way, as much as I think it should be top priority :P
I think its infidelity. And she should have went to her husband to express her concerns. And maybe they need counseling to help with communication. And to understand why she did it in the first place and began self healing as well. So that it doesn’t take place again
Seeing that disposable income was available I did wonder why a sex therapist wasn’t the first option. I can’t remember if she mentioned “exhausting other options” or not in the article. Lemme review…
@@hallease yes that is strange unless maybe she was uncomfortable to go
You two are a joy to listen too😍🧡
I'm happy she got what she needed when she needed it. If it helps her move her life forward in a positive direction then she did the right thing.
Oh same, I’m happy it worked I just wish there was more clarification
As a Reiki Practitioner, in my opinion, this is not cheating. I’ve given people reiki and opened up their sacral and things have happened. Tantric massages can be life changing for both men and women. It was a massage and not intercourse. Also, when pleasuring self, I make it a great romantic scene sometimes 😂😂
honestly this whole story just smells a bit much like bi-erasure to me,, i'm going off on a tangent assuming that woman's thoughts but like
the whole underlying idea of non-hetero sexual encouters not "counting" as a proper sexual encouter is wild,, like esp cause then its often twisted implicitly into "its not the "real" sexuality, therefore it doesnt count as cheating". even if she went to another woman for a feeling of safety, it's a queer sexual encouter. at the same time, i dont find the language used to describe it v sexual but rather sensual,, in a way it could be that the actual sense of safety the woman (unconsciously) associated with a female masseur is the lack of patriarchial beauty standards being held against her v harshly, or the lack of pressure to "perform" sexually as a woman for a man (if the woman isnt bi, then its like the attempt to take gender out of the equation). meanwhile I would in no way assume that the husband is particularly at fault here for body insecurities - living in this world without 100% resilience is all it takes to make a woman (and not only women, intersectionally speaking) feel like shes not good enough. for many its a massive daily effort to love themselves even with plenty of support and love that partner(s) and friends provide.
now, if the whole situation is cheating or not depends on whatever the couple agreed upon, or what they discussed afterwards - dont feel very strongly about this question lol
OK I realise I rambled,, part of what I meant is that if she had gone to a male masseur, most of the world would be 100% sure its cheating just cause they attribute more meaning to heterosexual encouters (and this is no criticism directed at you, by them I mean the general average population)
Listen! 👏🏿
Thank you for this comment because it’s sooo nuanced! From a hetero/safety sense sure I get why she went to a woman but then the language used to describe the touch had me pause as well - you can be questioning now, that’s fine. Studies have shown that sexual orientation can shift as we age. Dang there’s so much to unpack in this comment. Thank you!
@Hallease i think esp your way of discussing things, more in a way of i
calmly wondering about questions really encourages nuanced reflections and just juxtaposing thoughts instead of fighting strongly for just one one point, which is so rare and valuable in the controversy-driven UA-cam sphere. so thank your for creating and inviting that atmosphere and mindset here in the comment section :)
Haven't finished yet, but regarding the "flipped scenario", she probably thinks it would be okay for her husband to do the same once he goes to a male masseuse. I can understand the third party constituting cheating but is it probable that she didn't know she'd experience orgasm, cuz I didn't know a person gets that range of service from a tantric massage. We might say, "she MUST have researched it" but come on now, you know people being people-ing.
Next is the consideration that this was a "treatment". If she had first discussed it with her husband, she went and experienced orgasm, would it suddenly turn into a cuckold session as opposed to infidelity? or is treatment a treatment?
Dang all valid points. People really do be people-ing
I don’t feel like it’s cheating either, but I do wonder how much she was engaging with her partner about her issues around her appearance and being uncomfortable in her body.
I think depending on people's experiences with their bodies will determine what process they have to undergo to allow someone else to touch them or engage with their body on any level, so her process sounds like someone I know and the process they follow if someone/anyone is going to touch them. I think that would not be my process, but not uncommon.
On the answer to the titular question, I think that the general consensus (in the article, your video and the comments I've read) is that it was not cheating. They both consented, the 3rd party was not of the woman's preferred sexual attraction (that we know of), and the purpose of the session was for healing. The further deep diving conversation of this video getting into the "fault" lying with the husband... I think is assuming a lot that we do not know. As someone who has struggled with body image & weight in the past inside and outside of committed relationship, I know that I would not have felt comfortable even discussing the topic with my partner. From what is in the article, I think the woman felt the same way. It is possible that the husband contributed to her self-image, but it is not said and therefore I think unfair to assume. We also don't know that she didn't go to therapy. We know she tried other means of weight loss (ie, "fix" her body to "fix" her body image) and some of the ones she mentioned do involve talk therapy, albeit with a focus to weight loss. Also, this article is specifically about her experience with the massage, so it is possible that much information that we are all assuming in this conversation was left out as it did not support the narrative for the article that she wrote.
4:43 Huh. Most depictions show tantra as a hands off, energy based exercise where the tantrist is close to touch, but not touching and just moving and shifting the energy.
Why is the assumption that her disconnection from her body is due to something her husband did or said? Society already has plenty to say around women, our bodies, and how we express ourselves sexually. A partner can’t necessarily heal or override that type of conditioning. I can agree that there are ways they could come together, but the problem is bigger than their relationship. Her husband’s validation is not enough when the world has told her otherwise.
PS. I always wax before seeing the gyno lol
That's cheating, and you're assuming everything she said is true. This could also lead to other problems in the relationship if he decides to go find himself. Or if she has decided I like this and I'm leaving. It would be better to work it out together. Sometimes couples say stuff is okay, however, they could end up having long-term issues.
My thing is, if she properly explained it to him, and he agreed, its not cheating. Buuuut it seems kind of shady that she wasnt going to tell him. Like, i guess she almost cheated. And then she did tell him last minute after already having got the wax. It sounds like this isnt something that they had dicussed before, so shed literally be offering to change the conditions of their relationship by telling him she wanted to do this. And like, thats fine and all, but she owed him much more time to sit and think about this. It was a big change and it sounds like she steamrolled over him. That wasnt ok.
IMO, if both/all partners in a relationship are informed and give the thumbs up to an action, then I don't see an issue! Sneaking around/lying/omitting the truth gets a little suspicious, but if the husband was informed and consented then I think all is well. What might be cheating in one partnership could be totally okay in another, depends on the people and what they've agreed upon!
Maybe the Brazilian wax helped her feel more sexy…for herself.
Regarding the secretive behavior, maybe she was that way because she was a bit embarrassed & also embarrassed for her husband.
Most marriages don’t require that sort of help, so maybe she wasn’t 100% comfortable about it.
Imagine if it didn’t work? How would she go home and explain that embarrassment to her hubby?
Not all husbands know how to deal with this. Nobody is perfect.
Hi, the link to your clothing website is misspelled.
Lordt, not me misspelling my own site 🫠. Thank you! I fixed it
@@hallease You’re welcome! ☺️
So, I read through the article, and it's sort of ambiguous whether she got a "happyending" or not, but it was also ambiguous if the massage was an actual tantric massage or just an erotic massage. I don't really know if this is considered cheating... I wish there were a couple more details about how far the masseuse went, but the story only detailed massaging the inner thighs and pubic area. I think this was an actual massage, but an actual full body massage.
Hallese 🙌
But the female O is not the problem of a man though so he should not feel offended
Hmm is it not? I mean, I’d hope her partner is interested in her pleasure and enjoyment when they’re physically together…
@@hallease well no because it can be gone because of medical reasons I know I lost mine when I have severe vitamin d deficiency it took years to get it back
It's cheating
Straight and to the point lol
monogamous people still make no sense to me
But didn't she climax from the massage alone (ie no touching of intimate parts) ?
Nah there was touching of intimate parts
@@hallease ohhhhh well yeah that changes things
⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
Adulterate. To add another. Cheating is a meet cute expression. It is adultery.
5 mins in a we’re already talking about a woman’s orgasms ?!?!😮 Spoiler alert ….you mean to tell me you don’t know where it is yet….?